First Travel Trailer

[dabbill]

Hello from Spokane, WA.

Last month we picked up a 2019 Bullet 308BHS. Here is a picture from the maiden voyage. (other then taking it home from the dealer, and after resetting up the hitch correctly) Dealer had about 1 - 2" rise on the tongue. Made for a fun pull home with 18MPH winds. In this picture we towed it 95 miles one way to visit my father. Towed really well at ~60Mph. Heading out we had ~16Mph tail wind, ended up getting almost 15MPG. Headed home we had a 10Mph head wind. Ended up getting 10Mpg average over the trip.



We will be taking this to San Diego in July for first family vacation in the trailer. Taking 4 days on each end of the trip for traveling. To make sure we are not rushing to get anywhere.



TV - 2017 Ford Expedition (added parts to convert to HD towing).

TT - 2019 Keystone Bullet Ultra-Lite 308BHSWE

[Logan X]

Welcome to the forum!

I bet towing with some cross wind was “fun.” That is a pretty big trailer for an expedition.

There are lots of good people here with good information.

[dabbill]

Welcome to the forum!

I bet towing with some cross wind was “fun.” That is a pretty big trailer for an expedition.

There are lots of good people here with good information.

While I would agree this is pushing the limits of the expedition. It was very stable both directions. Even semi's passing me really did not push me around.

[NH_Bulldog]

What is it with dealers not setting up the hitch properly? We picked ours up 750 miles away at s dealer in OH and had a horrendous trip home. I checked the hitch set-up and it was too high by 2” like yours. The trailer brackets were also different distances from the ball, and the bolts for the ball mount to shank were not tight. After I got it set up and torqued to specs based on the INSTRUCTIONS, it has towed awesome. I should never had trusted someone else with such a vital task.....lesson learned!

Anyway, congrats snd enjoy!

[dabbill]

What is it with dealers not setting up the hitch properly? We picked ours up 750 miles away at s dealer in OH and had a horrendous trip home. I checked the hitch set-up and it was too high by 2” like yours. The trailer brackets were also different distances from the ball, and the bolts for the ball mount to shank were not tight. After I got it set up and torqued to specs based on the INSTRUCTIONS, it has towed awesome. I should never had trusted someone else with such a vital task.....lesson learned!

Anyway, congrats snd enjoy!

I feel for you. I only had to tow mine ~20 miles. After 6 miles I pulled off and called the dealer to complain. Honda's were sucking me over towards them. I am glad no semi's passed me on that trip. They also did not have enough preload on the WDH. I had to add another washer to mine. I still need to get over to the scales to see if I need to add another washer to the hitch. The service manager was like, "The tech that worked on your vehicle has done 1,000's of hitches with no complaints." Thinking to my self, " I wonder how many people took their trailers home and then tried to sell them, or not towed them any amount of distance, due to the hitch not being setup right." I even told the guy when I picked up the trailer that the hitch didnt look like it was setup correctly. I was told, well that was probably as close as they could get it. The picture in the post is with the ball dropped between 2 and 3 inches. Trailer now has a 1" drop in the front over the length of the 36 foot frame.

[duh1]

A away control bar also makes a big difference

[dabbill]

A away control bar also makes a big difference

Yeah. I am not sure I would want to tow any traditional travel trailer with any truck with out sway control.

Here is the hitch that the dealer set me up with.

10K (RB) Fastway e2 (https://www.amazon.com/Fastway-94-00-1000-Distribution-Standard-Included/dp/B0071L3SO6/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=e2%2Bhitch&qid=1560611728&s=automotive&sr=1-4&th=1)

[Retired Copper]

That is the same hitch dealer setup on the last trailer we had. it two was off and the tow was terrible; readjusted and was some what better but wanted a more stable tow so went with the equalizer 4pt. and wow what a difference. kept the e2 as brackets and pins are the same so as to have spare parts. Call fastway before I bought the hitch to see what the difference would be. They recommended the E4 on trailers 30 foot plus.

[5J's]

Congrats on your new trailer and welcome to the forum from SE Texas. When you scale be sure to look at all of your weights. That is way too much trailer for an Expo. Be sure to load it like you will for your Cali trip before you hit those scales. Good luck.

[sourdough]

Yeah. I am not sure I would want to tow any traditional travel trailer with any truck with out sway control.

Here is the hitch that the dealer set me up with.

10K (RB) Fastway e2 (https://www.amazon.com/Fastway-94-00-1000-Distribution-Standard-Included/dp/B0071L3SO6/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=e2%2Bhitch&qid=1560611728&s=automotive&sr=1-4&th=1)


You may want to think about a couple of things in this post;

1) An Expedition is not a "truck" in the truck sense of the word. It is not, and was never meant, to be a "tow" vehicle.

2) The E2 is not an appropriate wdh/sway for an 8000 lb. trailer on the back end of the Expedition....it just ain't.

You've made a trip and had "head" winds and "tail" winds (small)....those are irrelevant. Cross winds. High winds (30 +) will put you in a tailspin at any speed.

Bottom line? Don't be comfortable with that combo or the wdh you have. Neither is up to the task of what you are putting on it.

[Fishsizzle]

Welcome from Oregon! Been to Spokane a few times on my way to Idaho, beautiful country up there.

[Fishsizzle]

You may want to think about a couple of things in this post;

1) An Expedition is not a "truck" in the truck sense of the word. It is not, and was never meant, to be a "tow" vehicle.

2) The E2 is not an appropriate wdh/sway for an 8000 lb. trailer on the back end of the Expedition....it just ain't.

You've made a trip and had "head" winds and "tail" winds (small)....those are irrelevant. Cross winds. High winds (30 +) will put you in a tailspin at any speed.

Bottom line? Don't be comfortable with that combo or the wdh you have. Neither is up to the task of what you are putting on it.

While I cannot argue with all you points, but saying an expedition isn’t a truck or tow vehicle isn’t necessarily correct.

It’s a body on frame with a straight axle in the back. Much like any 1/2 truck. I have an 05 Navigator and it was “rated” at 10k towing. I pulled the 06 Sandpiper down the California and back a few times, fairly effortlessly. Over the mountains in Oregon as well when we were “truckless” for a year. (Why I thought we could do that was beyond me)

I will say if you can get a four point hitch (equalizer 4) somehow out of the dealer or send yours back, I would try really hard.

Again, safe and happy travels.

[Gegrad]

It’s a body on frame with a straight axle in the back. Much like any 1/2 truck.




*Ahem* A 2017 Expedition does NOT have a solid rear axle.. it has the independent rear suspension. So, Danny was correct in that is NOT really a tow vehicle, especially for a trailer as larg as the OP's.

https://www.mojavefordbarstow.net/new-2017-ford-expedition-model-info-barstow-htm.htm

[NH_Bulldog]

Here is the 2017 Ford Towing Guide for the Expedition. I know you added parts to upgrade towing capability, but please be careful, as that trailer is too much for the Expedition on a good day!

[Fishsizzle]

Well whiffed on the soiled axle, (thanks for clarifying) but I’ll still stand by that you can safely tow a load that it in it’s ratings.

Describe what a “Tow Vehicle” is. If it has features on it that allow you to tow, then it’s a tow vehicle. Sorry Danny no disrespect.

And yes OP does have to be careful based on the specs of the trailer and his TV. He’s right there, zero wiggle room.

[sourdough]

Well whiffed on the soiled axle, (thanks for clarifying) but I’ll still stand by that you can safely tow a load that it in it’s ratings.

Describe what a “Tow Vehicle” is. If it has features on it that allow you to tow, then it’s a tow vehicle. Sorry Danny no disrespect.

And yes OP does have to be careful based on the specs of the trailer and his TV. He’s right there, zero wiggle room.


Ha! Don't take it that way. We all share our thoughts and perspectives. And yes, in one respect, as you state, if it has "features" that allow you to tow, it is a "tow" vehicle (word used loosely - and possibly dangerously IMO). But then, to me, a TOW vehicle is one that was designed with that being one of its primary functions; not a bolt on Class II (example) receiver, P rated tires etc. Purely semantics and I think we both can be right in this case.

[dabbill]

Welcome from Oregon! Been to Spokane a few times on my way to Idaho, beautiful country up there.


I was born and raised in Vancouver, WA. :) Spent lots of time in Oregon.

[dabbill]

Here is the 2017 Ford Towing Guide for the Expedition. I know you added parts to upgrade towing capability, but please be careful, as that trailer is too much for the Expedition on a good day!


The only thing different between the standard towing and HD towing for the expedition is:

1. Slightly thicker Radiator
2. Transmission cooler
3. 7 pin trailer connector
4. Trailer brake controller


I have added the transmission cooler, 7pin connector and trailer brake. I will be monitoring engine temps closely to see if the radiator is really needed. I have quite a bit of towing experience with a range of trailers / trucks / SUVs. :)

[dabbill]

That is the same hitch dealer setup on the last trailer we had. it two was off and the tow was terrible; readjusted and was some what better but wanted a more stable tow so went with the equalizer 4pt. and wow what a difference. kept the e2 as brackets and pins are the same so as to have spare parts. Call fastway before I bought the hitch to see what the difference would be. They recommended the E4 on trailers 30 foot plus.

Have you seen any documentation that says that? I would like to have something before I got to my dealer with it. I bought the trailer about 1 month go, and have only done 1 ~200 mile tow with it.

[dabbill]

Have you seen any documentation that says that? I would like to have something before I got to my dealer with it. I bought the trailer about 1 month go, and have only done 1 ~200 mile tow with it.


I just got an answer back from from fastway hitch.



Hi Ryan,

Thanks for contacting us, there is no issue using the Round bar hitch with a 30ft trailer, usually a trailer this long though will have a pretty heavy tongue weight. that hitch is a bit lighter weight hitch, this is why usually a different hitch might be used with a 30 ft trailer. however if your trailer is with in the hitch weight limits then that is totally fine.

Thanks!http://progressmfg.my.salesforce.com/servlet/servlet.ImageServer?oid=00Df4000004K5Mj&esid=018f4000005HjL2


So It seems I am not going to have any fighting power to get the 4pt hitch with out paying for it out of pocket.



Here is the response from the dealer.



Ryan
The e2 hitch we installed for you can handle your trailer no problem we
install 100's of them per year and by far the best bang for your buck. The
only thing above the e2 we installed on your trailer which would be the
equalizer e4 hitch with has 4 point sway control which does give a little
more sway control but it about double the cost as the e2. We have had great
success with the e2 as they are actually made by the same company as the e4
and have a great customer response from the e2.



Trailer is rated at ~730 lbs tongue, 6400 lbs dry, and GVWR 7,600 lbs. So its with in specs of the e2 hitch.



:ermm::ermm:

[sourdough]

I just got an answer back from from fastway hitch.



Hi Ryan,

Thanks for contacting us, there is no issue using the Round bar hitch with a 30ft trailer, usually a trailer this long though will have a pretty heavy tongue weight. that hitch is a bit lighter weight hitch, this is why usually a different hitch might be used with a 30 ft trailer. however if your trailer is with in the hitch weight limits then that is totally fine.

Thanks!http://progressmfg.my.salesforce.com/servlet/servlet.ImageServer?oid=00Df4000004K5Mj&esid=018f4000005HjL2


So It seems I am not going to have any fighting power to get the 4pt hitch with out paying for it out of pocket.



Here is the response from the dealer.



Ryan
The e2 hitch we installed for you can handle your trailer no problem we
install 100's of them per year and by far the best bang for your buck. The
only thing above the e2 we installed on your trailer which would be the
equalizer e4 hitch with has 4 point sway control which does give a little
more sway control but it about double the cost as the e2. We have had great
success with the e2 as they are actually made by the same company as the e4
and have a great customer response from the e2.


:ermm::ermm:


The above is why you received the E2 on your purchase and not the 4 point - cost. The same reason the dealer was "throwing in a wdh/sway" when I bought my last trailer and it was some round bar/chain, clamp on friction sway unit that cost about 1/2 of the Equalizer. I insisted on the Equalizer.

I suspect the "little more sway control" they reference is about double the sway control of the E2. With your combo I would have nothing but the 4 point Equalizer and sell the E2 if they won't assist in some way.

[dabbill]

The above is why you received the E2 on your purchase and not the 4 point - cost. The same reason the dealer was "throwing in a wdh/sway" when I bought my last trailer and it was some round bar/chain, clamp on friction sway unit that cost about 1/2 of the Equalizer. I insisted on the Equalizer.

I suspect the "little more sway control" they reference is about double the sway control of the E2. With your combo I would have nothing but the 4 point Equalizer and sell the E2 if they won't assist in some way.


I paid for the hitch. When I asked about any other hitches, was told there would be no benefit for the more expensive hitch. It was ~650$ added on to my trailer for the full e2 hitch. Its almost 300$ cheaper on Amazon.



:banghead:

[dabbill]

I paid for the hitch. When I asked about any other hitches, was told there would be no benefit for the more expensive hitch. It was ~650$ added on to my trailer for the full e2 hitch. Its almost 300$ cheaper on Amazon.

:banghead:


I would like to give a huge shout out to Blue Dog RV in Post Falls. They are going to credit me back the amount I paid for the e2 hitch and match the Amazon price for my new hitch. So in the next day or so. I will be upgrading to the e4 hitch. :D:D

[Fishsizzle]

I would like to give a huge shout out to Blue Dog RV in Post Falls. They are going to credit me back the amount I paid for the e2 hitch and match the Amazon price for my new hitch. So in the next day or so. I will be upgrading to the e4 hitch. :D:D

Wow that’s awesome! Let us know how it works for you. I’ve heard good things about Blue Dog. Seems they have an RV lot every 100 yds up there

[sourdough]

I would like to give a huge shout out to Blue Dog RV in Post Falls. They are going to credit me back the amount I paid for the e2 hitch and match the Amazon price for my new hitch. So in the next day or so. I will be upgrading to the e4 hitch. :D:D


That IS awesome! I am very glad that worked out. I'm not sure what they meant by there would be no benefit to going to the more expensive hitches (Equalizer 4 pt. or even say, a Hensley!). Each step up improves the towing experience/control. Get it dialed in and I think you'll see some significant improvement. Again, congrats and good on the dealership.

[Gegrad]

I would like to give a huge shout out to Blue Dog RV in Post Falls. They are going to credit me back the amount I paid for the e2 hitch and match the Amazon price for my new hitch. So in the next day or so. I will be upgrading to the e4 hitch. :D:D

Awesome, that is commendable the dealer stepped up and is offering to help get you the proper hitch. Danny is right, the 4 pt hitch will double your sway control from the 2 pt hitch. It will be like night and day.

[dabbill]

Dealer swapped for the E4 hitch for the e2 at no charge as I was going to do the install my self. Blue Dog RV has been awesome to work with. I would recommend them to anyone in the market for an RV.

[Retired Copper]

Glad for you. Having pulled the same trailer with the same truck using the e2 and the E4 there is quite a big difference. Two point verses four points and that`s a no brainer.

[dabbill]

Glad for you. Having pulled the same trailer with the same truck using the e2 and the E4 there is quite a big difference. Two point verses four points and that`s a no brainer.

Awesome. I was expecting to pay the difference between the hitches. Was very pleased with the transaction with Blue Dog RV.

[Nitehawk]

This was a fun and interesting feed. And no insults .. I like that . I myself have a Hensley Arrow and after having a very serious accident with my last trailer i give credit to the hitch for preventing some serious if not a deadly outcome .I would tow with nothing else now

[newemptynester]

dabbill - congrats on the trailer and have a great summer. Welcome from Michigan

[dabbill]

dabbill - congrats on the trailer and have a great summer. Welcome from Michigan

Thanks, first camping trip is next week. Only about 25 miles away. Then in July we are going on first long trip with the camper. Cant wait. Brain is already starting to check out at work. :D

[newemptynester]

Welcome to Fridays and camping. My brain checks out when I know we are going. I love the close trips, you feel like you are miles away but you are right around the corner just in case. Enjoy.

[Huntme]

Miles away is a better place to be,because it is someplace different.

[dabbill]

Just got back from first real camping trip in the trailer. Have to say the Gray / Black tank filled up much quicker then expected. Only got about 2 days use out of them. We did have another family with us as well. (6 kids and 3 adults).

What are the average time frames for 30 gal grey/black fill time for people? (Normally it will be 3 kids, 2 adults)

The e4 hitch makes the SUV / Trailer feel much more like its 1 unit, instead of something tied on to the back of the SUV like the e2 hitch did.

Time to start getting ready for the long CA trip next week.

[Logan X]

Just got back from first real camping trip in the trailer. Have to say the Gray / Black tank filled up much quicker then expected. Only got about 2 days use out of them. We did have another family with us as well. (6 kids and 3 adults).

What are the average time frames for 30 gal grey/black fill time for people? (Normally it will be 3 kids, 2 adults)

The e4 hitch makes the SUV / Trailer feel much more like its 1 unit, instead of something tied on to the back of the SUV like the e2 hitch did.

Time to start getting ready for the long CA trip next week.

We have 4 kids and 2 adults. Three nights is about all we can do before the tanks are full.

[dabbill]

We have 4 kids and 2 adults. Three nights is about all we can do before the tanks are full.

You have a whole lot more grey water holding then we do as well. Guess the ultra lites are not really meant for dry camping. :eek:

[sourdough]

6 kids and 3 adults is a lot for those tanks. If you're getting 3 days I think you're doing exceptionally well. Our tanks are either 30 or 38 gallon I don't remember but we dump every 4th morning and it's just DW and myself so I think you are doing very well.

[IMASAP]

If my wife is showering in the trailer, I have to empty the grey about every 36 hrs. Black….. every 3 days. My wife's idea of being conservative, is letting the kitchen faucet run continuously, but slightly slower than it does when washing the dishes at home.

[dabbill]

If my wife is showering in the trailer, I have to empty the grey about every 36 hrs. Black….. every 3 days. My wife's idea of being conservative, is letting the kitchen faucet run continuously, but slightly slower than it does when washing the dishes at home.

That sounds like my daughter when doing dishes. We found most of the kids letting the water run while brushing their teeth. Just got to practice only using what is needed :)

[Nitehawk]

If my wife is showering in the trailer, I have to empty the grey about every 36 hrs. Black….. every 3 days. My wife's idea of being conservative, is letting the kitchen faucet run continuously, but slightly slower than it does when washing the dishes at home.

Do not let your wife read this ..... or you might be sleeping in a tent and using a bush.......

[Logan X]

You have a whole lot more grey water holding then we do as well. Guess the ultra lites are not really meant for dry camping. :eek:

Our black tank is 40 gallons and we have 2 30 gallon grey tanks. We don’t really use the shower when we are dry camping.

[WestCoastWanderer]

Welcome. Good honest advice from good people available here.

[busterbrown]

Congrats on the new Bullet and welcome from Michigan. As a fellow 308BHS owner, our coach has given us wonderful memories over the last 4 seasons. It's a great floorplan even though we've had our share of system failures (reserved for another chapter).

Reading through the pages, I do have to agree with what Danny (Sourdough) and a few others had say regarding the selection of tow vehicles as I started out with a 1/2 ton Yukon XL Denali. The powerplant was never an issue with the 6.2L. It had plenty of grunt to make it up and over the steepest east coast mountain ranges.

It wasn't until we hit a formidable wind storm on our 4th trip out, about 3 months after the purchase that changed our perception. In an instance, the DW and I had a completely different view on what was safe and what was not. 40 mph cross winds is absolutely no joke at highways speeds. A trip across the state of Michigan, which normally took us 3 hours, extended to about 5 hours. 40 mph is about all I could do as I watched the tail end of my trailer bounce between the lane markers.

Humbled by that experience, we ended up investing in a Hensley Arrow. Unfortunately, that put the truck over on payload, and the search commenced for an appropriate TV. Before the start of the next towing season, I found the RAM Megacab in my signature.

As a Yukon Denali is a good family vehicle (just as an Expedition is), it is just NOT a great TV for long, heavy trailers. The deficits came from its lack luster payload capacity, short wheelbsse and P-rated tires. Even though I had the "long" XL wheelbase, it paled in comparison to a traditional LWB pickup. Just to note, a "non-EL" Expedition wheelbase is 11 inches less (119) than a Yukon XL (130).

Prior to my first tow and to firm up the rear end, I switched out the OEM sway bar for a beefy aftermarket Hellwig and bought new XL-load range P tires (verses standard load range). I also added a 2nd axillary transmission fluid cooler inline to the OEM cooler and upgraded the brake rotors and pads to a "truck and tow" kit from Power Stop. In addition, I installed a Prodigy P3 trailer brake controller which did a good job coordinating the braking effort with the coach.

But (and it's a big BUT), since owning my current TV, I realized NONE of those "upgrades" or "enhancements" to my Yukon offered the same level of safety and control that's inherent in the RAM. I nearly doubled the payload capacity and added 30 inches on to the wheelbase length. As experienced RVers know, payload and wheelbase are both desireable commodities.

Mated to my Hensley, the rig is effortless to drive. We are no longer exhausted after a 300 mile trip up north to our upper peninsula or after a month long, 6,000 mile cross-country adventure. The wife drives nearly as much as I do without worry. With the old TV and previous Blue Ox hitch, she wouldn't be seen in the drivers seat. Most of it had to do with the TV, but some credit has to be given to the hitch.

Our most recent adventure took us from Michigan to the southwest traveling in all weather conditions, the most memorable on I-40 in New Mexico when a dust storm had accompanying wind speeds at over 50-60 mph. (We lost our tonneau cover). We appreciated each and every pound the RAM provided. Next summer will have us going north for 8 weeks in the same rig, destination: America's last frontier.

As many find out sooner than later, the "been there done that" membership is expensive but required. <---especially when the DW refuses to go on any future trips. ;)

Hope this gives some insight into my experience with our 308BHS.

[dabbill]

We are hoping to get in to a new TV soon. We really like the expedition for a family vehicle. Hopefully next year we will be able to get a decent TV. :)