White Knuckle Sway

[tschott]

OK, so I'm new.... We purchased a 2019 Cougar 29BHS in November. Looked for a truck and was pushed toward a 2015 F150 3.5 twin turbo ecoboost with the towing package...
So, for power the truck is fine and has more than enough power and from what we have done with numbers should be over what we need for towing capacity and load capacity.
I knew I wanted a good Weight Distribution System so I went with a Equal-i-zer Weight Distribution System w/ 4-Point Sway Control - 12,000 lbs GTW, 1,200 lbs TW model number... EQ37120ET
We set it up the way the book said and went for a drive. The evening was calm and it seemed fine till I went past a farm place near the road and then the camper started to sway just from a light wind sheltering us from the farm place...
Took it over the weekend to a local campsite about 20 miles away and was not liking driving over 55 miles an hour. It didn't feel safe meeting anything on the road and I defiantly didn't feel safe over 57Mph.
I have dropped the bars one notch to put more weight on the back of the truck, it's better but, that is not how these things are supposed to work.,,,, or are they. (I still didn't feel safe over 57Mph)
any advise?

[linux3]

OK, let me be the first to say:
Your GVW of the trailer is ~8800 lbs. Figure 15% tongue weight is 880 lbs = 10120 lbs plus hitch and passengers and all the stuff in the back. What does the yellow tag say your truck can carry?

A very good rule of thumb is a 1/2 ton truck is good for ~5000 lbs. Anything more and you should look at a 2500HD or in the Ford world an F250.
Tow package. Max tow package or just tow package?
You have this very large sail being pulled by a truck that just maybe is good enough.
I have 30k miles pulling my TT and I would never do what you are doing with your truck.
Stick close to home or buy more truck.

[jsb5717]

Welcome to the forum. There is a lot of good, experienced, knowledgable advice here. linux3 just gave you your first dose of sound advice. I'm really sorry that you were pushed into a truck that isn't up to the task. You've got yourself a nice trailer and I'm sure you are looking for creating a lot of great memories in your new adventure...join the club. You're in good company.

But you want to be and feel safe on your way. That's just not likely to happen in the truck you have. It's simply outmatched by your trailer.

If your new trailer is the right trailer for your family there's really only one solution and that's more of a truck that will take care of you. A 3/4 ton at minimum will feel very different towing down the highway.

I'm glad you found this forum. I'm sorry the news isn't great. But I hope you are able to use the info to safely enjoy your new adventures.

Good luck and be safe!

[travelin texans]

Unfortunately the majority of us have fallen victim to the same sales hype you fell in, rv &/or truck salesmen that don't have a clue about what can be towed with what as long as they sell it. Or advertising bs of a all powerful boosted 1/2 pickup or a 1/2 ton towable rv. Yes that truck is probably capable of towing 10k trailer, just not one that has the aerodynamics of a giant brick. If that rv is 5-6k lbs it might be safely towed by a 1/2 ton pickup, but in reality "1/2 ton towables" are in some cases right at the limit of some 3/4 tons.

[Steveo57]

I've got a 2018 F150 and a 2018 22RBS with a GVWR of 7200#. This past summer it weighed in at about 6500# loaded and the tongue weight is pushing 1000#. It's right on the edge of being too much for my truck in my opinion. I have seriously considered moving up to a F250 to make things a little more enjoyable. I've had 3 trailers and I would agree that 5-6000# and 24-26' max length is a realistic number for a half ton truck.

You need to find out what your tongue weight is to make sure you've got enough weight on the tongue.

Some people have tried other things with some success such as, higher pressure in the truck tires, better shocks on the truck, going to LT tires on the truck, better tires on trailer. YMMV

[Eastham]

Linux3
Where did the 10120 figure come from. I am sure I am missing something. He hasn't given the gvw of the tow vec.or the tow vec pay load yet.

[K_N_L]

I suspect the biggest issue is that with a 34 foot trailer and the big sail area, regardless of the weights and power, is that the suspension and tires are too soft for the task. I found a huge difference between 3/4 ton gas and diesel trucks in towing stability which I attributed to the extra truck weight. The eco-boost motor is a beast, but the rest of the truck is more setup for town comfort. If you’re in check on your weights, as noted tires, shocks and ( I know they don’t increase carrying capacity) air shocks might be a option. ( Until you go for a 1 ton diesel- skip the 3/4 ton step)

[Snoking]

This might have a lot to do with your issue. 34.1' long.

https://i.imgur.com/uTlNXWNl.jpg

[KSH]

Make sure your numbers are actually good. Go weigh everything properly. If sway is the issue get a propride hitch. Pricey, but great. I've never used anything else so I can't compare. But it was night and day when I added it.

[rhagfo]

I suspect the biggest issue is that with a 34 foot trailer and the big sail area, regardless of the weights and power, is that the suspension and tires are too soft for the task. I found a huge difference between 3/4 ton gas and diesel trucks in towing stability which I attributed to the extra truck weight. The eco-boost motor is a beast, but the rest of the truck is more setup for town comfort. If you’re in check on your weights, as noted tires, shocks and ( I know they don’t increase carrying capacity) air shocks might be a option. ( Until you go for a 1 ton diesel- skip the 3/4 ton step)

This might have a lot to do with your issue. 34.1' long.

https://i.imgur.com/uTlNXWNl.jpg


X3 that is a lot of tail wagging the dog.

[goducks]

This might have a lot to do with your issue. 34.1' long.

https://i.imgur.com/uTlNXWNl.jpg

Look where the axles are. Almost in the center of the TT. Thats a big no no. No matter how much weight you add to the tongue you'll never achieve optimum towing when the axles on the trailer are too close to the center of the TT.

[busterbrown]

I will have to agree with what others have said already. The primary insult to your towing setup is the length of that Cougar. We were in the same boat 4 seasons ago. Had a half ton towing the trailer in my signature. Used a Mid grade Blue Ox Pro for the WDH. It only took 1 moderate wind storm to have me look for a viable solution.

It wasn't a bigger truck (at first). My solution came in the form of a Hensley Arrow. It completely eliminates sway, especially with these long tow behinds. Paid a premium for it but it more than lives up to its reputation.

Unfortunately, that extremely heavy hitch put my 1/2 ton over on payload, and the search was on for a more ample towing machine. A shiny new RAM 2500 Megacab was in my driveway by the start of the next season.

Here's the kicker. I tested my Blue Ox hitch with my RAM hooked to my trailer. One trip out and the white knuckles were back. The Hensley went back on when we got home and would never come off again.

Unless you have that very elusive max tow/max payload package on your F150, you may be flirting with (or over) the manufacturer's limits of the truck...a serious no-no. You'll need a correction of tow vehicle choices. Many of us on this forum are in the same "btdt" club.

If however, your truck has plenty of reserves in GVWR, GVCWR, GAWR, payload capacity, and tire ratings, then go check out the Facebook group "Hensley Owners". When I joined last year, I could believe how everyone had the exact same sentiments with that hitch. Have yet to read a negative opinion or someone who who regret the purchase of that massive orange hitch head.

[Fishsizzle]

Been there. F150 eco crew with 35’ long travel trailer. I could go as fast as I had the nerves for. The trailer was just flat long. Even with my F350 (2010) or my F250 (2017) it was never a perfect pull. If I even had the tiniest bit of water that was in the far back fresh tank, it was uncontrollable.

I wish I had more positive news, I would look into the hitch mentions above to help.

I tried every height I could with the thing as you can see in the pics. F150 has Bilstein shocks, Hellwig sway bar, E rated tires and air bags. The biggest help was the beefier sway bar.

[slow]

This video sums things up well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M75Sm7XaIdY

[Snoking]

I just watched the video, and this guy hits pretty much dead center on the issue.

We towed a 16K 5th wheel with our 2015 RAM 3500 4X4 CC SB SRW for two years back and forth to Arizona, and then parked it for a Summer home in the NW.

We bought a Laredo 225MK travel trailer to commute back and forth to Arizona. Last winter was our first trip with it. It has a 8K GVWR and we had it load pretty close to that. It is 26'11" and 11'2" tall. The RAM handled it fine with a ProSeries hitch. Would I want to tow this with a 150/1500? NO! Chris

[Logan X]

Like many others, I started out with an F-150 ecoboost. After the first year I knew I needed a bigger truck so I bit the bullet and upgraded to an F250 diesel. It tows like a dream and I am very glad I got the bigger truck.

If you are going to upgrade your truck, and as someone else suggested, with a trailer as long as yours, I would skip the 3/4 ton/2500 truck and go with a 1 ton/3500.

[Retired Copper]

If you had the trailer first they: or who ever, should not have steered you to the half ton. The eco is a strong motor and a half ton does pretty good up to around the 6500lbs mark and under 28 feet. Saying that you see people doing it and you read on forums of folks doing it. I don`t know how they are really liking it but it is not a good match and I don`t see how you can be within the ratings of a half ton with a bunkhouse trailer that size and weight. Unless, you have the F150 with the 7 lug rear axle and 3.73 rear end. Good luck and hope it works out. Happy Camping.

[Fishsizzle]

If you had the trailer first they: or who ever, should not have steered you to the half ton. The eco is a strong motor and a half ton does pretty good up to around the 6500lbs mark and under 28 feet. Saying that you see people doing it and you read on forums of folks doing it. I don`t know how they are really liking it but it is not a good match and I don`t see how you can be within the ratings of a half ton with a bunkhouse trailer that size and weight. Unless, you have the F150 with the 7 lug rear axle and 3.73 rear end. Good luck and hope it works out. Happy Camping.


It’s interesting you say that, my 08 F150 with the 5.4 and 3:73 gears towed the wildcat much much better than the 15 eco boost. Couldn’t believe that the 15 was billed as superior. Other than sheer power of the 15. The 08 did great

[Snoking]

It’s interesting you say that, my 08 F150 with the 5.4 and 3:73 gears towed the wildcat much much better than the 15 eco boost. Couldn’t believe that the 15 was billed as superior. Other than sheer power of the 15. The 08 did great

Maybe your 08 was heavier than the aluminum body 15 and had stiffer springs?

[Fishsizzle]

Maybe your 08 was heavier than the aluminum body 15 and had stiffer springs?

That’s what I chalk it up to. It’s all I can think might be different. The 15 has more goodies on it, which technically should bring the weight back up. I kept the tires/wheels of the 08 and put them on the 15.

[SDDave]

My 06 Ram 2500 hated pulling this trailer , My 3500 ram was better but a Xwind or following a Semi was no fun. The Super duty F 350 in the pic tows it the best but its also heavier than the Rams by 800lbs.

Its 34'6" including hitch, and grossed out at 8klbs and 1100lbs on the hitchbut honestly it was like pulling a parachute, even with the reese sway WD

[meaz93*]

tschott....you just need to dial that WDH in better. Tongue is high in pic and the truck has squat-lol
I have a 2014 F150 Boost MaxTow/Payload Package/4x4 Off Road Pack...and I tow a 38' 9k dry 2018 Keystone Outback TT.
I have No White Knuckle towing here!
I just got back from towing AZ to San Diego-11.1 mpg>5* 87 p/t tune.
In fact I encountered 2 more fellow F150 EcoBoost brothers in aluminum bodied trucks.
Both pulling around 35'ers....loving their 10 speed transmissions.
I have Loadlifter Ultimate 5000's airbags to level things out & a Hellwig rear sway bar>absolutely love them!
A pic below shows the Platinum Boost pulling a Jayco HT 37'.
You don't have to sell your truck?-lol

22104221052210622107

[Fishsizzle]

tschott....you just need to dial that WDH in better. Tongue is high in pic and the truck has squat-lol
I have a 2014 F150 Boost MaxTow/Payload Package/4x4 Off Road Pack...and I tow a 38' 9k dry 2018 Keystone Outback TT.
I have No White Knuckle towing here!
I just got back from towing AZ to San Diego-11.1 mpg>5* 87 p/t tune.
In fact I encountered 2 more fellow F150 EcoBoost brothers in aluminum bodied trucks.
Both pulling around 35'ers....loving their 10 speed transmissions.
I have Loadlifter Ultimate 5000's airbags to level things out & a Hellwig rear sway bar>absolutely love them!
A pic below shows the Platinum Boost pulling a Jayco HT 37'.
You don't have to sell your truck?-lol

22104221052210622107


Nice trailer, in-laws have one. If I’m not mistaken, that’s is one of the few trailers that boast a “true” 1000k empty tongue weight. It was really designed correctly. Let me walk over and look. Camping next to them as we speak

[Fishsizzle]

Yes 1075 tongue. I really believe that a vast majority do not put the engineering into the TRAILER that the truck manufacturers do their trucks. It’s not all about light weight, but where that weight is on the trailer in relation to how much you put on the truck.

Pop in-law loves his outback. It pulls much better than the 06 stick built Sandpiper we pull around.

But I’m getting off topic.

[meaz93*]

It actually pulls WAY better than my old 2010 7k dry 33' Keystone Springdale (squared off brick).
I believe that the E rated trailer tires make a big difference on stability and ride.
Absolutely love this trailer....in fact it's soooo good a person doesn't want to get out of the trailer when camping!!-lol22108

[Fishsizzle]

It actually pulls WAY better than my old 2010 7k dry 33' Keystone Springdale (squared off brick).
I believe that the E rated trailer tires make a big difference on stability and ride.
Absolutely love this trailer....in fact it's soooo good a person doesn't want to get out of the trailer when camping!!-lol22108

Agree, it is a very nice trailer.

[tschott]

I have been reading the replies to this and I thank you all. I know I could add air bags and it might be better but, I really don't want problems. I even had one person tell me to put sand bags in the back of the truck.. ????? No, I have already talked to my local salesman and he said they would work with me in getting a better fit of a truck.
The new question is.... I have always been a Chevy guy, I got this F150 and Loved it. (I know, it blew me away also!) The local Ford dealership has a 2017 Chev. 2500 HD that I wish they had 6 months ago. The salesman is really trying to push a Ram on me but I know the F250/F350 is a strong choice.
What are the feeling on people that have my size camper? What should I be looking at?

[jsb5717]

Tough call. The 3/4 ton should git-r-done but if you're looking at the used market you can often get a 1 ton for about the same money. Go big or go home?

[FlyingAroundRV]

If you're considering buying a used truck, my advice would be "make haste slowly".
Do your research carefully. There are a lot of trucks out there with design and engineering faults. Look into the stories about some of the Ford diesels and the "bulletproofing" industry that has grown up around that engine alone. The Chevs are no better for design faults. Look at the rusting brake lines etc. There are good trucks available as a lot of the design faults were rectified in subsequent models.
Do LOTS of research. Look at carcomplaints.com to see what major faults a prospective truck might show. Get on truck specific forums and ask questions there too.
Early on in my research, I decided on a Ford truck and asked a lot of questions on the Ford Truck Enthusiast forums. That's where I learned about the Triton engines tendency to spit spark plugs and why that happens and what owners are doing about it. I also learned there that the newer 6.2L engine is much more reliable in terms of lack of design faults.
Do LOTS of research. Then go online on the carsguru website and look at prices for what you think you might like. Then look at places where there are a lot of trucks available (mostly Dallas and Atlanta) and maybe even be prepared to travel interstate to get a good one.
When we bought our truck, I could only do all this online as I live in Australia and only visit the US 3 months of the year. We lobbed into Dallas with a list of 16 trucks I wanted to look at. In the end we found a really great truck at a good price and it was the RIGHT truck for our trailer.
Did I mention, do LOTS of research?
Take your time and hasten slowly and you'll get it right.

[meaz93*]

No you didn't just say Che....lol22120

[Retired Copper]

tschott 3\4 or 1 ton , gas or diesel will handle the trailer. Check the yellow payload sticker and make sure you can carry the family and stuff in the truck. Most diesel 3/4 tons you have to watch the payload sticker. If diesel me personally would look at the 1 ton. What to get well each to his own, I have own in the neighborhood of 12 different trucks from nissian to Chevy. I am kind of bias in the 3/4 to one ton trucks so I want recommend one. I can say that I really like the truck I have now better than any in the past.

[GMcKenzie]

tschott 3\4 or 1 ton , gas or diesel will handle the trailer. Check the yellow payload sticker and make sure you can carry the family and stuff in the truck. Most diesel 3/4 tons you have to watch the payload sticker. If diesel me personally would look at the 1 ton. What to get well each to his own, I have own in the neighborhood of 12 different trucks from nissian to Chevy. I am kind of bias in the 3/4 to one ton trucks so I want recommend one. I can say that I really like the truck I have now better than any in the past.

^^This.

If you are going diesel, I woudn't look at a 3/4 ton. Payload is ~2300 lbs, so not much better than my 2015 Sierra 1500 (with GM trailering package).

I like my truck and it tows my 8200 lb Cougar well, but looking to go bigger so looking at the upcoming 2020 GM trucks,

[FlyingAroundRV]

^^This.

If you are going diesel, I woudn't look at a 3/4 ton. Payload is ~2300 lbs, so not much better than my 2015 Sierra 1500 (with GM trailering package).

I like my truck and it tows my 8200 lb Cougar well, but looking to go bigger so looking at the upcoming 2020 GM trucks,
^^^ Agree

When I was researching trucks, one of the things that surprised me was that diesel and 4WD trucks generally have lower payload figures than their 2WD and gas brothers (sisters?). It seemed counter intuitive at first. But the lowered payload figures directly relate to the extra weight in the running gear of those trucks. They're no doubt stronger trucks and in the case of 4WDs more capable in adverse conditions, but for us it was a standard 2WD F250 gasser. I have zero intentions of taking my trailer anywhere I might possibly need 4WD. In fact I have the same level of intent to drive just the truck in any conditions like that. I wouldn't know what I'm doing and all I'd do would be to set myself up for trouble. Besides, if I wanted to go to those places I need a 4WD for, I'd probably be camping in tents rather than an RV.
JMO. YMMV.

[Gegrad]

I am inclined to believe maybe he doesn't have his sway hitch set up properly. My trailer is nearly the exact same length as OPs and I have to watch my speed or else I will be going 80 without looking due to the fact that I have ZERO sway. Granted his trailer's GVWR is 1500 lbs more than mine, so that could certainly have something to do with his poor experience, but he shouldn't be having that much sway solely due to length.

[Snoking]

I am inclined to believe maybe he doesn't have his sway hitch set up properly. My trailer is nearly the exact same length as OPs and I have to watch my speed or else I will be going 80 without looking due to the fact that I have ZERO sway. Granted his trailer's GVWR is 1500 lbs more than mine, so that could certainly have something to do with his poor experience, but he shouldn't be having that much sway solely due to length.

Your axles appear to be farther aft. Go tow his trailer and report back to us how it tows.

[Gegrad]

Your axles appear to be farther aft. Go tow his trailer and report back to us how it tows.

That could very well be part of the problem... but there's no need to be a d*ck about it. You can take that attitude and put it you know where.

And I might add that if that is truly the problem a bigger truck might not solve that design flaw. I know someone who custom built his own car hauler. The thing was constructed solid as a rock, but he put the axles too far forward and that thing NEVER towed correctly, even with his one ton DRW. It was a design flaw that was a permanent problem.

[Snoking]

That could very well be part of the problem... but there's no need to be a d*ck about it. You can take that attitude and put it you know where.

And I might add that if that is truly the problem a bigger truck might not solve that design flaw. I know someone who custom built his own car hauler. The thing was constructed solid as a rock, but he put the axles too far forward and that thing NEVER towed correctly, even with his one ton DRW. It was a design flaw that was a permanent problem.

I was just pointing out that similar size trailer may not be built the same or handle the same. Several on this thread have stated their similar size trailers tow fine, much means zip. Chris

[Fishsizzle]

That could very well be part of the problem... but there's no need to be a d*ck about it. You can take that attitude and put it you know where.

And I might add that if that is truly the problem a bigger truck might not solve that design flaw. I know someone who custom built his own car hauler. The thing was constructed solid as a rock, but he put the axles too far forward and that thing NEVER towed correctly, even with his one ton DRW. It was a design flaw that was a permanent problem.

Correct, I believe that not enough thought has gone into proper weight distribution via axle placement on these long trailers

[busterbrown]

The more I read/hear about how certain lenghty trailers have issues with sway and others don't offers up evidence that manufacturers attempt to do what they need (axle positions) to lighten up the tongue weights without consideration of the floor plans.

Advertising tongue weights that are 1/2 ton "towable" on heavy GVWR trailers creates a larger field of prospective buyers. Win win for the RV company as they sell their pull behinds to the unsuspecting RV newbie and wait a couple of seasons to see them come back for a more profit-driven 5ver. Who doesn't want a relaxed tow, right?

Glad I found my Hensley as it removed that component completely.

[FlyingAroundRV]

The more I read/hear about how certain lenghty trailers have issues with sway and others don't offers up evidence that manufacturers attempt to do what they need (axle positions) to lighten up the tongue weights without consideration of the floor plans.

Advertising tongue weights that are 1/2 ton "towable" on heavy GVWR trailers creates a larger field of prospective buyers. Win win for the RV company as they sell their pull behinds to the unsuspecting RV newbie and wait a couple of seasons to see them come back for a more profit-driven 5ver. Who doesn't want a relaxed tow, right?

Glad I found my Hensley as it removed that component completely.
That would be very disappointing if it is the case. In fact if it is and someone came to grief because of that I would think there would be a case to be made for damages against the trailer manufacturer.


The general thoughts I've heard here and elsewhere is that 10-12% of the trailer's weight should be on the tongue, carried by the TV. I've also read that the axle and tire ratings are designed with this assumption such that the aggregate capacity of the tires and axles is usually less than the all up loaded weight of the trailer, assuming the TV is carrying 10-12% of the weight. I've often wondered how WDHs fit into these calculations as they reflect not only more of the trailer weight onto the front axles of the TV, but also reflect some of the TV's weight back onto the trailer!


Could that be why the RVIA now mandates a 10% margin on tire capacity?

[NH_Bulldog]

Just the other day at a traffic light, a truck pulling a large trailer went across the intersection in front of me. It struck me as very odd that it looked like the axles were smack in the middle of the trailer. Then it occurred to me that some engineer at the factory thought this would be a great way to make a very long trailer have a (minimal) tongue weight that would give people the false sense of security that they can tow more than they should be towing. I think it is more of the trailer design than a TV issue.

[Snoking]

Could that be why the RVIA now mandates a 10% margin on tire capacity?

Our little 2019 225MK Laredo is built like a little brick SH. It has a 8K GVWR, with 4400 axles and came with ST225/75R15D's rated to 2540 each. I sold the Good Rides D's and installed GY Endurance ST225/75R15E's. It also came with Lippert Road Armor equalizer and wet bolts OEM. The trailer was more expensive than most others that size, however that might pay off in the along run. Chris

[mwemaxxowner]

tschott....you just need to dial that WDH in better. Tongue is high in pic and the truck has squat-lol
I have a 2014 F150 Boost MaxTow/Payload Package/4x4 Off Road Pack...and I tow a 38' 9k dry 2018 Keystone Outback TT.
I have No White Knuckle towing here!
I just got back from towing AZ to San Diego-11.1 mpg>5* 87 p/t tune.
In fact I encountered 2 more fellow F150 EcoBoost brothers in aluminum bodied trucks.
Both pulling around 35'ers....loving their 10 speed transmissions.
I have Loadlifter Ultimate 5000's airbags to level things out & a Hellwig rear sway bar>absolutely love them!
A pic below shows the Platinum Boost pulling a Jayco HT 37'.
You don't have to sell your truck?-lol

22104221052210622107MEAZ!!!

I wondered if I'd run into you here [emoji4].

[meaz93*]

A brotha from a different boost motha! Representing.....[emoji106]22156

[tschott]

I took some time and tried 4 different settings with the equalizer hitch and the result was about the same on all the changes I made. The trailer is just so long behind the wheels, the F150 just doesn't have enough weight on the *** to keep it stay. I have talked to a couple vetrains of TT's and they said air bags and more weight in the box might help.....

So, I made a decision. I want a gas truck, I need it to be 4WD here in Minnesota. (for the winters) So I am looking at a 2018 F350 XLT tonight.. It is about the same trim package as my 2015 F150 and the interior looks about the same. It has 30K miles on it and looks to be in nice condition. I know it will handle the trailer and everything I ask of it and more.
What do you all think?

[Retired Copper]

You will like it a lot when towing and you sure want have to worry about payload or being over weight.

[mwemaxxowner]

I'd hold off for the 7.3 gas v8.

[jsb5717]

That truck will put you nicely ahead of the game and you will definately notice a difference.

[MVBrown]

I have a Reese Dual Cam anti-sway and weight distribution system. It acts pro-actively to counter sway real time as it is happening rather than dampening sway after the fact. It cost about the same, and you will say good by to sway problems once you have it installed.

P.S. Get a 2500 Cummins Diesel, and also say good bye to pulling problems.

[Gegrad]

I took some time and tried 4 different settings with the equalizer hitch and the result was about the same on all the changes I made. The trailer is just so long behind the wheels, the F150 just doesn't have enough weight on the *** to keep it stay. I have talked to a couple vetrains of TT's and they said air bags and more weight in the box might help.....

So, I made a decision. I want a gas truck, I need it to be 4WD here in Minnesota. (for the winters) So I am looking at a 2018 F350 XLT tonight.. It is about the same trim package as my 2015 F150 and the interior looks about the same. It has 30K miles on it and looks to be in nice condition. I know it will handle the trailer and everything I ask of it and more.
What do you all think?

Sounds like a good idea given your trailer's setup. That will more than handle your rig and will definitely eliminate the sway. Note you will still want to use your WDH, even with that truck due to your trailer's size.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Sounds like a smart move to me, going from a 150 to a 350. You'll notice a big difference.

[Golfhacker64]

You can try using this to help determine what your TV can handle. You’ll need to convert it back to Excel, sorry. You can try and message me and I can send it in Excel form.

[BadmanRick]

Our friend had a very similar situation. He has a 2016 Aluminum Ford 4x4 F-150 with the v6 twin turbo eco boost. He was towing the same size trailer as you and experienced the exact same sway. This truck is TOO light to tow that much weight. He was sold a line of bull by the rv dealer claiming the truck was safe to pull this size trailer. He drove it from Louisville Kentucky to Fort Myers direct to the local dealer and trained the trailer in on a motor home. He toes the F150 behind the motor home now. Be safe get a larger bigger truck if you keep the trailer.

[Glider]

I have a 2018 Ford Expedition Max with the 3.5 Twin turbo with the heavy duty tow package with integrated brake control rated at 9300 lbs tow capacity... It is about 800-900 lbs heavier than a similar length F-150. I use the Center Line TS 800-1200 weight distribution set up for my Keystone Passport 2900RK which has a GVWR of 7200 which is just ~300lbs above your dry weight. It’s 33.4 feet long vs your 34.9 feet . I can honestly say, I’ve never experienced sway like this with my set up. I usually keep it 65 mph and under on the highway mostly for fuel economy and safety. However, I’ve towed in mountains, across bridge tunnels, in wind, rain and other inclement weather. I’m thinking more set up than truck size. Things like shocks, weight distribution set up, type tires (load range). This is only my experience, I’m always in favor of having more truck than you need but if you don’t need it... I would check the set up first, double check everything. When I upgrade to a toy hauler, it is a diesel 3500 or F350 for me.

[CaptnJohn]

I had a 2015 F150 when my wife decided we should camp again. So I bought a 26' TT and zero problems UNTIL wife wanted to go farther and stay longer. Bought a Cougar 5er and a 2016 F250 diesel in late 2015. Done right? HELL no. Wife said we needed bigger so she decided on a 43' HC which just barely made PW so off I went and bought a 2016 F350. Felt good being done, finally ~~~ until last month when we (actually she) needed a new Montana. Pulled it home and on a 700 mile round trip. Have ordered a new F350 dually she is sure we must have! Promise you I am done now!

[sourdough]

I had a 2015 F150 when my wife decided we should camp again. So I bought a 26' TT and zero problems UNTIL wife wanted to go farther and stay longer. Bought a Cougar 5er and a 2016 F250 diesel in late 2015. Done right? HELL no. Wife said we needed bigger so she decided on a 43' HC which just barely made PW so off I went and bought a 2016 F350. Felt good being done, finally ~~~ until last month when we (actually she) needed a new Montana. Pulled it home and on a 700 mile round trip. Have ordered a new F350 dually she is sure we must have! Promise you I am done now!



Hmmm, with that track record I'm not sure I would "promise" myself I was done!! :lol:

[mpellet723]

Last September I purchased a 29rld to go with my Silverado 2500 HD 4X4 Z71. I no issues don't realy know that its behind me. I never feel that I can't control it.
If you have to do 57 to feel safe than do it.
Never believe what the dealers tell you about the Tow Ratings.

[sugarhillctd]

Late to the party here but having come from carrying a HEAVY truck camper (3500#) for several years, when SWMBO wanted a 5th wheel I knew that I was going to keep a close eye on weight. I know this is a TT thread, but just my 2 cents about trucks and weight.

Being on the WAY safe side of GVWR now is really great. Having a pin weight of under 1500# while pulling a 5th wheel that is about 8000-8500# with our 3/4T crew gas is a pretty relaxed ride.

Sorry that the OP is in this situation. But it brings to mind the saying "don't bring a knife to a gun fight". I learned. I'd much rather have too much truck than too much trailer.

[pdaniel]

When I was shopping for my latest RV, a heavy "extended stay" 5th wheel the salesperson asked, up front, what my TV was. His rationale was he didn't want me coming back in a couple of weeks complaining the RV was too big for the truck.
Now, I agree there are those sales persons who will shill to make a sale-state that ecoboost F150, hemi-powered 1500, Silverado or Sierra 1500, Tundra or Nissan will pull a 30 foot or so TT or 5th wheel with a couple of slides. Or the RV dealer who will state their product can be safely towed with said trucks or 3/4 tons that are not equipped properly (yes, I had a 3/4 ton with a towing/cargo capacity of today's 1/2 tons).
The advice on this forum is sound regardless of those who think those with the advice are "towing police".

[Snoking]

Hmmm, with that track record I'm not sure I would "promise" myself I was done!! :lol:

Lets, see? They make F450 pickups!!!!!:cool::cool::cool:

We bought, on the phone, our 2017 BH3575el (16K GVWR and 39'4" of full high profile 5th wheel) . One of the questions the salesman asked was what do you have for a tow vehicle? I said 2015 RAM 3500 Diesel, 4x4 CC SB SRW with 11,700 GVWR. He said good to go. We had already looked at this model in Arizona and California on our way home to Washington. Guy in California on a Sunday turned down my offer on a 2016, and we called the Oregon dealer while driving up I-5 and made in an offer very close the the California offer, which he excepted. We would have stopped to look at it, however it was over in Klamath Falls at a show. Monday the California guy calls and ask why we did not call back. I said we bought one in Oregon. He said I will take your offer, and I said you are a day late!!!!

[Scott902]

F450 does have that wide track, great turning front axle ;) LOL

[tschott]

http://http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22262&stc=1&d=1560547068
Well, Here we go. I want to thank you all for input on what works for you! I started with this Cougar 29BHS on a 2015 F150 (that I will miss immensely!) But after taken the same camper with the newer 2018 F350.... Not even comparable! We are taking it on a 300 mile round trip this weekend and I'm not worried about the sway with this MONSTER!
I'll let everyone know how is works out!

[meaz93*]

Nice truck tschott!, I think theirs enough 1ton for your TT..... you will be fine!-lol22268

[duh1]

A sway control bar will help. You are making the truck work pretty hard with that load. moved up from a 1500 to a 2500 diesel and it was the right thing for us. Can tow at 75 all day long. Really bad cross wind in the rockies will drop it to 55. The truck i have is really heavy (6800 lbs loaded) and settles the trailer right down. Chevy 2500 diesel + 2910 BH Passport. Both are loaded. Sway bar and tow bars make all the difference.

[notanlines]

Meaz, that expression comes because he wasn't in his car seat!:D And in response to the other posts, I believe that a good WDH and sway bar is imperative regardless of tow vehicle or TT. I will back off that statement if you have a hauler or are towing a trailer with lawn equipment.

[Snoking]

A sway control bar will help. You are making the truck work pretty hard with that load. moved up from a 1500 to a 2500 diesel and it was the right thing for us. Can tow at 75 all day long. Really bad cross wind in the rockies will drop it to 55. The truck i have is really heavy (6800 lbs loaded) and settles the trailer right down. Chevy 2500 diesel + 2910 BH Passport. Both are loaded. Sway bar and tow bars make all the difference.

(6800 lbs loaded) Heavy??? My RAM 3500 4x4 CC SB SRW picture frame and manual slider, golf clubs, generator, fuel, tools, etc etc was 8900 ready to tow when full timing. Probably now weighs 8500 +/- towing the Laredo.

[ADQ K9]

I am pretty long at 60 FT total, but the tail never will wag the dog The truck is 8500# empty and the GVW of the trailer is 8800# I get to 8800 in the truck with me, the DW and two dogs in the cab. Throw a couple hundred pounds of coolers, firewood and tools in the bed plus the hitch weight and the truck is substantially heavier than the trailer. My WDH keeps both planted solid in windy conditions, and no rocking by passing semi trucks.

[tschott]

Well I'm happy to let all of you know that I made the correct decision with going with a larger truck. We ran through wind, rain, calm, bumpy, smooth, uphill, downhill, and curvy roads with NO problems!! It handled great and I even left the wife drive. She said how the truck makes pulling the camper seem tooooo easy! I think that is a good thing.
Thanks again for all the help.

[Logan X]

I’m glad to hear it worked out well for you! Congratulations on your new truck.

[sourdough]

Well I'm happy to let all of you know that I made the correct decision with going with a larger truck. We ran through wind, rain, calm, bumpy, smooth, uphill, downhill, and curvy roads with NO problems!! It handled great and I even left the wife drive. She said how the truck makes pulling the camper seem tooooo easy! I think that is a good thing.
Thanks again for all the help.


Good to hear and thanks for the feedback!! Many think that everyone on the forum insists that those that don't have an HD truck or dually should have one. It's really a little different. Many push having the HD truck, or larger, so the tower has enough truck for the load to be carried. Once you reach the level of "enough" truck you can definitely tell the difference - you know you've reached a different plateau. Lots of folks don't understand that. Now, once you reach the point that the truck is plenty for the load (whether HD, 1 ton, dually etc.) going larger isn't really necessary unless the owner wants to or sees a larger trailer in their future.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Well I'm happy to let all of you know that I made the correct decision with going with a larger truck. We ran through wind, rain, calm, bumpy, smooth, uphill, downhill, and curvy roads with NO problems!! It handled great and I even left the wife drive. She said how the truck makes pulling the camper seem tooooo easy! I think that is a good thing.
Thanks again for all the help.
Congratulations and welcome to the "believers" club. We also went with a bigger truck than we first planned, and like you, found towing now is soooo easy! This RVing is supposed to be FUN and with an adequate TV it IS.
Wishing you many happy, fun and SAFE miles.
One more piece of advice though, if I may, watch out for the tail swing in the turns, especially when pulling away from a curb.

[JRTJH]

Yet another example of "You just don't know what you don't know".....

When a novice starts doing something (anything) like towing and only has his personal experiences to compare, then towing with a "too light tow vehicle" feels "normal" because it's always felt this way.....

Once someone gets behind the wheel of a bigger (properly sized and equipped) tow vehicle with that same trailer, they almost always say, "WOW, what a difference. Now I understand what you've all been saying."

Until that happens, anyone who has only their own "abnormal towing" to consider "normal and the way it's supposed to be" they will never understand.

Another believer !!!!!

[Snoking]

It is always nice to hear the follow up. Thanks for posting your satisfaction with the new TV. Chris

[Fishsizzle]

Congrats! Glad it’s working out and kudos to you for an awesome attitude

[MVBrown]

Well I'm happy to let all of you know that I made the correct decision with going with a larger truck. We ran through wind, rain, calm, bumpy, smooth, uphill, downhill, and curvy roads with NO problems!! It handled great and I even left the wife drive. She said how the truck makes pulling the camper seem tooooo easy! I think that is a good thing.
Thanks again for all the help.

Congratulations on the new truck!!! Yes, it truly is day and night when it comes to towing as you can see. We used to tow our Jayco 265RLS with a GMC 1500, and it did OK, but just OK. We moved up to a 2500 Hemi when we got the Cougar 32RLI, and while better. It can't compare to the 2500 diesel.

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so!"

[Fishsizzle]

Congratulations on the new truck!!! Yes, it truly is day and night when it comes to towing as you can see. We used to tow our Jayco 265RLS with a GMC 1500, and it did OK, but just OK. We moved up to a 2500 Hemi when we got the Cougar 32RLI, and while better. It can't compare to the 2500 diesel.

P.S. Don't forget to bullet proof that beast after the warranty is out to give it that 250K miles of life without problems.

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so!"

Been mulling this one over,

What’s does he have to “bulletproof “ on a 2018 F350 when he hits 100k?

6.2 Gas nothing
6.7 diesel?

[Fishsizzle]

Way before that the Lift Pump needs to be changed to save the Bosch (4.2) Injector Pump. Trailer Life magazine has a great article on this. Also his EGR cooler will fail as seen in The Long Long Honeymoon videos on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egypz5muiEE

The trailer life article dealt with the Chevy, that has no lift pump, the Ford 6.7 has a lift pump and is a serviceable part.

The EGR Cooler is also a serviceable part, and oil cooler as well. Both are easier to get to, and maintain.

The 6.7 is a pretty well designed engine. Your video looks to be for a 6.0, which yes l, is an awesome engine once “bulletproofed” and 6-8k investment
I

[Snoking]

Every truck has a Lift Pump (Fuel Pump) which is typically located in the gas tank. The article dealt with the Injector Pump (Bosch CP 4.2) which is part of the engine, and is on Chevrolet, and Ford (...Found on ’11-to-present Power Stroke and Duramax engines...). The aftermarket lift pump from say, FASS Fuel Systems, has the added benefit of insuring good lubrication to the poorly designed Bosch unit.

Duramax now uses the Japanese Denso injection pump, and saddly the next gen RAMs will have the CP4-2.

[travelin texans]

The only diesel engine that I recall that needed bullet proofing was/is the PS 6.0 which might help & might not. From my experience with the 6.0 you'd be better off to use the bullet to the head of that engine then repurpose it into a boat anchor.
All of the newer diesels are pretty tough & powerful & need no bullet proofing or aftermarket modifications to get the job done.

[Fishsizzle]

Every truck has a Lift Pump (Fuel Pump) which is typically located in the gas tank. The article dealt with the Injector Pump (Bosch CP 4.2) which is part of the engine, and is on Chevrolet, and Ford (...Found on ’11-to-present Power Stroke and Duramax engines...). The aftermarket lift pump from say, FASS Fuel Systems, has the added benefit of insuring good lubrication to the poorly designed Bosch unit.

I don’t think GM uses a “lift” pump.

http://www.duramaxhub.com/duramax-problems.html

I have my articles crossed on this and will find it.

[Fishsizzle]

From the June 2019 Diesel World Magazine

https://pocketmags.com/us/diesel-world-magazine/june-2019/articles/554048/why-the-cp4-2-fails

[MVBrown]

The only diesel engine that I recall that needed bullet proofing was/is the PS 6.0 which might help & might not. From my experience with the 6.0 you'd be better off to use the bullet to the head of that engine then repurpose it into a boat anchor.
All of the newer diesels are pretty tough & powerful & need no bullet proofing or aftermarket modifications to get the job done.

I am by no means advocating things like deleting the parts that cause the engine life to suffer a short existence, and get horrible fuel mileage, and reduce performance. BUT.... The things (government mandated) that are done to a modern diesel engine dramatically reduce it's life and performance. Raising the temperature to 1000° + to burn off soot in the DPF, and injecting Urea into the CAT, and recirculating exhaust (soot) back into the engine, AND having to cool that in a device the WILL eventually leak and destroy the engine. Not to mention a CP4.2 pump failure that will, well... ruin the engine as well. These are all cause for alarm, and anything that can be done to minimize these effects should be done. IMHO

[Fishsizzle]

Were talking about different rigs and bulletproofing etc, now so it’s gotten to far off topic. Letting it go to pasture.

[MVBrown]

I don’t think GM uses a “lift” pump.

http://www.duramaxhub.com/duramax-problems.html

I have my articles crossed on this and will find it.

Correct! I was wrong and you are right. The GMC/Chevy CP4.2 sucks gas out of the tank without a lift pump. However the CP4.2 has the other issue of not getting enough lubrication that eventually leads to its demise.

Thank you for correcting me!

[MVBrown]

Were talking about different rigs and bulletproofing etc, now so it’s gotten to far off topic. Letting it go to pasture.

Agreed! Time to put this one back in the barn...

[sourdough]

Were talking about different rigs and bulletproofing etc, now so it’s gotten to far off topic. Letting it go to pasture.


Thanks fellas. I thought I was reading some diesel tech forum vs white knuckle sway with an RV as the OP started.....:D

[dwlyon]

I have a 2017 F 150 with the max tow package and a 2017 29 BHS. I have towed my TT up Berthoud Pass (elevation 11,000 feet +). I've driven it to Gettysburg from Colorado and am currently in the Black Hills in South Dakota. Never once have I felt unsafe. Just relax and take care to load your TT correctly and have fun.

[GMcKenzie]

I have a 2017 F 150 with the max tow package and a 2017 29 BHS. I have towed my TT up Berthoud Pass (elevation 11,000 feet +). I've driven it to Gettysburg from Colorado and am currently in the Black Hills in South Dakota. Never once have I felt unsafe. Just relax and take care to load your TT correctly and have fun.

Can I ask (and this might be slightly off topic) what the payload rating is on your setup? Be from the sticker on the door.

Oh, and my old 2001 Duramax didn't have a lift pump :)