My bed rails and the bottom of my RV are getting thrashed, HELP!!!

[MariettaChuck]

Hi folks,

I need some advice. My 2019 427 Fuzion 5th wheel keeps on bottoming out on my bed rails. I have the hitch at it's highest setting. The pin box can drop down one more hole on the adjustment, but it if you look in my attached picture, the bottom bolts will no longer be going thru the angle iron supports. This doesn't look too safe to me... Any help wold be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chuck

[Frank G]

Lower the Rota-flex down a notch, they would have not provided the holes if it was unsafe.

[Racebug]

my last truck (short bed/slider) did that but just in the center of the tailgate. I was going to trim a little metal off the back of the pin box, but ended up buying a new truck and didn't need to anymore.

[jsb5717]

can the hitch adjust up any?

[notanlines]

Whst Frank said! And be sure to use new bolts and nuts and torque them to specs. Easy peasy

[MariettaChuck]

Camper is 3 months old. New bolts really necessary???

[Frank G]

Camper is 3 months old. New bolts really necessary???

The easy answer is to replace them as you have no way of inspecting them for defects. The 3 marks on the end indicates that they are grade 5 bolts, washers and nuts. Take a set out and go to your local hardware or big box store (Lowes, Home Depot, Menards) to get another set. Yes, they need to be torqued to specification. You can find these values online once you know the size.

[xrated]

Camper is 3 months old. New bolts really necessary???

Technically, yes! Anytime a bolt is torqued to a certain spec, there is a certain amount of "stretch" the bolt is subjected to. In something as important as this application, there is no way I would reuse the previously torqued bolts. The money spent on new is just good insurance and pace of mind.

[NevadaRich]

Tractor Supply has all those grade 5 bolts

[MariettaChuck]

Well folks,

Thought I would share what I have learned. After calling Keystone, which was no help, my selling dealer, and posting my pin box issue one this forum, the general consensus was it was ok to lower the pin box to the lowest level, even though the lowest row of bolts would not be connected to the supporting angle iron. (see picture in 1st post) I did not feel comfortable doing this. It just didn't seem safe.

Well...

I found out that the pin box and pin box mount were built by Lippert and I called their tech support line. They told me absolutely not to have the pin box supported without both rows of the bolts connected thru the angle iron supports, that it was VERY unsafe. So, I ended up purchasing a Flex Air "long jaw" pin box. It will increase the distance from the bed rails to the bottom of the RV 3 inches. It will also push the RV back in the bed so there will no longer be contact between the bottom of the RV and the bed rails. The pin box cost me $1300.00 on Amazon and will be delivered next week. I am sure it is going to be a pain in the butt to get the whole thing level as the pin box must weigh a ton!

I will update this post when the task is complete and let you all know if I just flushed $1300.00 down the toilet. I hope not.

[Frank G]

Well folks,

Thought I would share what I have learned. After calling Keystone, which was no help, my selling dealer, and posting my pin box issue one this forum, the general consensus was it was ok to lower the pin box to the lowest level, even though the lowest row of bolts would not be connected to the supporting angle iron. (see picture in 1st post) I did not feel comfortable doing this. It just didn't seem safe.

Well...

I found out that the pin box and pin box mount were built by Lippert and I called their tech support line. They told me absolutely not to have the pin box supported without both rows of the bolts connected thru the angle iron supports, that it was VERY unsafe. So, I ended up purchasing a Flex Air "long jaw" pin box. It will increase the distance from the bed rails to the bottom of the RV 3 inches. It will also push the RV back in the bed so there will no longer be contact between the bottom of the RV and the bed rails. The pin box cost me $1300.00 on Amazon and will be delivered next week. I am sure it is going to be a pain in the butt to get the whole thing level as the pin box must weigh a ton!

I will update this post when the task is complete and let you all know if I just flushed $1300.00 down the toilet. I hope not.

It is good you have this worked out, it angers me that Lippert provided the means to move the pin box to a unsafe location without warning labels, literature, something. People have been moving pin boxes forever, this discussion could get interesting. From an engineering view a longer pin box puts additional stresses on all the connection points and the frame itself. I hope you have this change approval in writing. Since I have been on this forum there continues to be threads on broken frames, they are always costly to repair and difficult to collect under warrantee.

Since your Truck, hitch, and trailer is a common combination as is, how level is the trailer when connected? A picture would be helpful. After installing the new pin box the "Level" may be an issue.

Good luck with the change, hope I did not scare you, just words of caution

[MariettaChuck]

I think I won't have a level problem as the hitch is at its highest point. We shall see...

[MariettaChuck]

This is what I bought.

https://store.lci1.com/l05-flex-air-pin-box-21000-lbs-369535.html

[geeman]

Well folks,

Thought I would share what I have learned. After calling Keystone, which was no help, my selling dealer, and posting my pin box issue one this forum, the general consensus was it was ok to lower the pin box to the lowest level, even though the lowest row of bolts would not be connected to the supporting angle iron. (see picture in 1st post) I did not feel comfortable doing this. It just didn't seem safe.

Well...

I found out that the pin box and pin box mount were built by Lippert and I called their tech support line. They told me absolutely not to have the pin box supported without both rows of the bolts connected thru the angle iron supports, that it was VERY unsafe. So, I ended up purchasing a Flex Air "long jaw" pin box. It will increase the distance from the bed rails to the bottom of the RV 3 inches. It will also push the RV back in the bed so there will no longer be contact between the bottom of the RV and the bed rails. The pin box cost me $1300.00 on Amazon and will be delivered next week. I am sure it is going to be a pain in the butt to get the whole thing level as the pin box must weigh a ton!

I will update this post when the task is complete and let you all know if I just flushed $1300.00 down the toilet. I hope not.

On the bright side you are gaining the air ride.
If it were mine and if I did not want or need the air ride, I would have just welded a plate over the bottom 3 holes and welded that to the angle iron supports.

Or like others have done, just lowered the hitch and not thought about it....

Enjoy!!

[goodellj]

When I read this and saw the pictures, I thought the suggestion was to lower the pin box a few inches so that the lowest row of bolts went through the bottom row of holes, and the upper row of bolts went through the middle row of holes. Lippert says both rows of bolts must be engaged with matching holes and this would do it, right? This would give you a few inches more elevation for the trailer and should help avoid contact between the trailer and the truck rails.

[Electribluemega]

When I read this and saw the pictures, I thought the suggestion was to lower the pin box a few inches so that the lowest row of bolts went through the bottom row of holes, and the upper row of bolts went through the middle row of holes. Lippert says both rows of bolts must be engaged with matching holes and this would do it, right? This would give you a few inches more elevation for the trailer and should help avoid contact between the trailer and the truck rails.

I agree this is what I was thinking.

[terrythetech]

[QUOTE=xrated;343333]Technically, yes! Anytime a bolt is torqued to a certain spec, there is a certain amount of "stretch" the bolt is subjected to. In something as important as this application, there is no way I would reuse the previously torqued bolts. The money spent on new is just good insurance and pace of mind.[/QUOTE
As a 30 year maintenance technician if you are going to replace the bolts why not use grade 8 bolts? A few.cents more but why mess with softer bolts?
]

[bobbecky]

If you do decide to go with grade 8 bolts, or if you just decide to stay with grade 5 bolts, this is a link to MorRyde's pin box installation page that has bolt torques, which would apply to any pin boxes, regardless of who they are made by. http://www.morryde.com/uploads/downloads/1463080044-RPB%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf

[Dan Lockwood]

If you do decide to go with grade 8 bolts, or if you just decide to stay with grade 5 bolts, this is a link to MorRyde's pin box installation page that has bolt torques, which would apply to any pin boxes, regardless of who they are made by. http://www.morryde.com/uploads/downloads/1463080044-RPB%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf

Bob,

I know that this thread has taken a turn here and there, but your Mor Ryde torques have me a bit confused in comparison to my B&W gooseneck hitch install. That under bed bolts to retain the center section to the cross rails and the bolts in the frame are all 1/2-13 grade 8. They were all torqued to 110'/#. The Mor Ryde calls for 80'/# torque.

Can't see that the B&W would be more important than the pin box for tightness, but just thought it was a bit odd between the two companies.

Also I understand on the surface the original pin box has the angles down the side to the second up holes, but then provide the lower two holes as well. The system design is a BOX and as such, I would personally not be worried about just going to the lower holes and moving on with my life. The upper two bolts would still be in the reinforced holes and the BOX would add lots of strength as a box.

I could see that if the pin mount were to be move down two holes so only the top bolts were in the non-angle reinforced plate, that would be a BIG no no, but who would ever do that, right?

The new $1500 Mor Ryde is nice, but to just solve the scuffing of the bed rails, I would have just moved to the lower holes. It's not my rig and not my decision, so it's just my2¢ of rambling... :)

[Jbbooks]

Or do what I'm doing and put a pulling bed on your truck.

[Dan Lockwood]

Honestly I never paid attention to my Raptor until this weekend while washing it the first time.

I see that my pin box has been moved to the lower holes and it appears it was done when new. I texted my dealer and asked about this practice and he said that they've done it for a LONG time and never had a failure. He assured me not to worry about my setup as it's safe.

But again, each to their own.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/24841920/414296256.jpg

[Dusty]

Well folks,

Thought I would share what I have learned. After calling Keystone, which was no help, my selling dealer, and posting my pin box issue one this forum, the general consensus was it was ok to lower the pin box to the lowest level, even though the lowest row of bolts would not be connected to the supporting angle iron. (see picture in 1st post) I did not feel comfortable doing this. It just didn't seem safe.

Well...

I found out that the pin box and pin box mount were built by Lippert and I called their tech support line. They told me absolutely not to have the pin box supported without both rows of the bolts connected thru the angle iron supports, that it was VERY unsafe. So, I ended up purchasing a Flex Air "long jaw" pin box. It will increase the distance from the bed rails to the bottom of the RV 3 inches. It will also push the RV back in the bed so there will no longer be contact between the bottom of the RV and the bed rails. The pin box cost me $1300.00 on Amazon and will be delivered next week. I am sure it is going to be a pain in the butt to get the whole thing level as the pin box must weigh a ton!

I will update this post when the task is complete and let you all know if I just flushed $1300.00 down the toilet. I hope not.

Interesting, I just went through these discussions with LCI and got a different story. I will post the email chain below but they said using the bottom holes was fine.
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dusty Baker
Sent: 9/17/2019 4:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Pin Adjustment

Hi,

I have a 2019 Keystone Fuzion 369. The 369 has a Lippert LCI 6421481 frame "picture 1" and a Rota-Flex 19000 pin "Picture 2". I need an additional 2-3 inches of bed clearance. I currently have the Rota-Flex connected via 6 bolts through the angle irons as illustrated in picture 2. this is the way it came from the manufacturer. Picture 3 shows 3 bolts through the angle iron and three below the angle iron (this is not my trailer). is it safe to mount 3 bolts below the angle iron as shown in picture 3? If not is there a pin I can use that would give me 3 more inches of clearance to the bed? My hitch Reese M5 27k is at max height.

Thank you

----------------------------------------------------------------
EmailToCase <[email protected]>
To: Dusty Baker

Good afternoon Dusty, the hole you show with farthest down is all the lower you can go. We do not have any other pinbox's that drop any lower.

Thank you,

David Bice
Lippert Components
Parts Specialist
w: 574.537.8900 | F: 574.534.7161
Technical/Parts/Warranty: e-mail @ [email protected]
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dusty Baker
Sent: 9/18/2019 1:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pin Adjustment [ ref:_00Di0aIhw._5001Y1IuY9j:ref ]

David, to make sure I understand your response. I can lower the pin box to the third set of holes down from the top, below the angle iron?

Thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
EmailToCase <[email protected]>
To:Dusty Baker

That is correct. Make sure all the holes are used in the pinbox sleeve and torque bolts to 110 to foot lbs

Thank you,

David Bice
Lippert Components
Parts Specialist
w: 574.537.8900 | F: 574.534.7161
Technical/Parts/Warranty: e-mail @ [email protected]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dusty Baker
Sent: 9/18/2019 3:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pin Adjustment [ ref:_00Di0aIhw._5001Y1IuY9j:ref ]

David, if the pin box sleeve is the terminology used for the item the pin box slides into then, the sleeve has a total of 9 holes each side, three rows of three. The Rota-Flex pin has two rows of three each side. When I lower the Rota-Flex down one set of holes to the lower position the top row in the sleeve will be empty. So all the holes would not be used correct?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EmailToCase <[email protected]>
To: Dusty Baker

Need to make sure that 6 bolts per side is being used. I call the sleeve the inner part that holds the pin.

Thank you,

David Bice
Lippert Components
Parts Specialist
w: 574.537.8900 | F: 574.534.7161
Technical/Parts/Warranty: e-mail @ [email protected]