High brake lamp?

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Has anyone ever attempted to install a high brake lamp to their 5th wheel or travel trailer?

The challenge is fishing the brake light wiring from the bottom...

Just curious to see if ideas pop up. I sure would love to have that extra light shine when I brake, I noticed some Class À motorhome have one.

Thanks

[hankpage]

Class A's use standard automobile type brake lights, trailers use combo of left and right directionals. I'm not sure how you would keep half from blinking in turns. Two lights mounted near center might do the trick, JM2¢, Hank

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Huh?

It's a different circuit for brake lights.

[hornet28]

No the brake lights and turn signals use the same wire. There are only two wires feeding the rear lights. Look at a bulb and you will see there are two elements, one for brake/turn signal and one for tail lights. Or look a plug wiring diagram, one terminal for turn/brake and one for tail lights. For a vehicle with a higher brake light it's a dedicated wire for just that light

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Installing a 2 to 3 wire converter, you're able to get a connection for a 3rd brake light.

Again the real challenge is getting the wire to that 3rd lamp...

[hornet28]

You could've said what you were planning on using when you asked.

[chuckster57]

IMO, it’s more work than worth the bother. We have drilled holes and fished the wiring about 1/2 up on both sides to install vertical LEDs.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Guess so.

So, 2 vertical LED lights above the puny lights could improve visibility. That would be easier to wire.

Sad that manufactures will only act if it's mandated by law, it would be a worthwhile addition, well in my opinion.

[chuckster57]

Guess so.

So, 2 vertical LED lights above the puny lights could improve visibility. That would be easier to wire.

Sad that manufactures will only act if it's mandated by law, it would be a worthwhile addition, well in my opinion.


It’s about cost. Public wants “affordable”, manufacturer wants profits...

[notanlines]

Geek, let me step out here and be a little confrontational (Oh, yes, a first for me:D).
With your statement "It would be a worthwhile addition, well in my opinion" that it is worthwhile, but you aren't willing to pay for it or you already would have had it done and paid for it.
Where would we stop with all the goodies that people want added to their Cougar? We take a perfectly nice Cougar at $45K, add about 350 nice, little gadgets and comfort trinkets here and there and post that same RV at $59K instead. Oh, did I mention that now your F250, already overloaded, won't do the trick so the F350 is on the horizon to pull that heavy beast.
Okay, I'll get off that soapbox for now. I happen to agree with you that there are many RV's that could use more for brake/turn lights. Maybe set your sights not quite so high and settle for up about 2/3 of the way. And when you drill that first hole in your filon, do it very easy-like with a brand new hole saw and at high speed.
And thanks for your years of service, by the way.

[JRTJH]

When we first bought our Cougar, my DW was following me in her SUV to a campground. She called me on the phone and asked me to please use the turn signals before turning, so she could follow me easier. I told her I was using them. It was a bright, sunny day, she simply couldn't tell if the turn signals were working or not. We stopped, checked the lights, and sure enough, they were working perfectly (in the shade) but difficult to see in the sun.....

That weekend, I bought replacement LED lights for the Cougar. I specifically chose Bargman surface mount devices because they would completely cover the old tail light mounting area. They have been in place for 6 years now, never a problem, and they're significantly brighter than the older incandescent tail lights used by the manufacturer. https://www.towuniverse.com/Bargman-Taillight-84-LED-Surface-Mount-Red-Red-Black-Base-47-84-610?language=en&currency=USD&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0NHfqOC24gIVUbjACh3EBg7JEAYYBiAB EgJmxPD_BwE

As Jim said, if all our "wishes came true" a competitively priced RV would cost significantly more than any of us would pay to drag it home and most of us would need a tow vehicle upgrade to pull the additional weight..... So, be careful what you wish for, you might get "bigger black tanks" (one member's wish) with a "hole in the middle to install a S&B toilet" (another member's wish) while you get "improved passthrough cargo doors" on one side" and "just eliminate the damn things" on the other side" (another two member's wishes)...

If you go back to the "origin of the CMBL" you'll learn that it wasn't a "high mount brake light" but intended to be "at eye level to improve safety and visibility". When you sit "behind most RV's you'll quickly learn that the existing location IS at eye level", so the problem really isn't location as much as it is "the brightness of the existing incandescent bulb".

Here's what my new LED tail lights look like and trust me when I say, you can see them from half a mile back when I apply the brakes. For me, it was worth the $60 investment, that now has increased to about a $90 investment. But, I wouldn't "insist" that the manufacturer install them on every trailer they make because, if they did, you'd have to pay for something I want that you may find "totally useless" for the way you use your RV......

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Thank you all, wise words for sure.

Will consider my options.

[jimborokz]

When we first bought our Cougar, my DW was following me in her SUV to a campground. She called me on the phone and asked me to please use the turn signals before turning, so she could follow me easier. I told her I was using them. It was a bright, sunny day, she simply couldn't tell if the turn signals were working or not. We stopped, checked the lights, and sure enough, they were working perfectly (in the shade) but difficult to see in the sun.....

That weekend, I bought replacement LED lights for the Cougar. I specifically chose Bargman surface mount devices because they would completely cover the old tail light mounting area. They have been in place for 6 years now, never a problem, and they're significantly brighter than the older incandescent tail lights used by the manufacturer. https://www.towuniverse.com/Bargman-Taillight-84-LED-Surface-Mount-Red-Red-Black-Base-47-84-610?language=en&currency=USD&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0NHfqOC24gIVUbjACh3EBg7JEAYYBiAB EgJmxPD_BwE

As Jim said, if all our "wishes came true" a competitively priced RV would cost significantly more than any of us would pay to drag it home and most of us would need a tow vehicle upgrade to pull the additional weight..... So, be careful what you wish for, you might get "bigger black tanks" (one member's wish) with a "hole in the middle to install a S&B toilet" (another member's wish) while you get "improved passthrough cargo doors" on one side" and "just eliminate the damn things" on the other side" (another two member's wishes)...

If you go back to the "origin of the CMBL" you'll learn that it wasn't a "high mount brake light" but intended to be "at eye level to improve safety and visibility". When you sit "behind most RV's you'll quickly learn that the existing location IS at eye level", so the problem really isn't location as much as it is "the brightness of the existing incandescent bulb".

Here's what my new LED tail lights look like and trust me when I say, you can see them from half a mile back when I apply the brakes. For me, it was worth the $60 investment, that now has increased to about a $90 investment. But, I wouldn't "insist" that the manufacturer install them on every trailer they make because, if they did, you'd have to pay for something I want that you may find "totally useless" for the way you use your RV......

Thanks for the link. I've been looking for about a year and hadn't seen these for some reason. I wanted leds that fully covered the old spot. I may also add smaller ones up higher.
It would cost the RV manufacturer nothing to just mount lights up higher on the tail. Brighter would be good also.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Manufacturers prefer to focus on "Full extension wooden drawers, screwed not stapled, hand crafted by Amish!"

[JRTJH]

Manufacturers prefer to focus on "Full extension wooden drawers, screwed not stapled, hand crafted by Amish!"

The reason for that (IMHO) is because far too many buyers "focus on the bling" rather than on sensible, operational components. Keystone, Forest River, Winnebago and "all the rest" focus on making money by giving the public what they will buy, not what they need.

Trust me when I say that the marketing division of any successful business has more "say in future changes" than the engineering department.

Same concept with going to the proctologist for our 5 year checkup. I've yet to see people lined up for a colonoscopy, but they (we) all line up every day at lunch for a "burger at BK". It's what we want, not what we need that drives us to one or the other of those lines..... Can't blame the manufacturers for giving us what we want.....

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Good point.

Reminds me of this phrase I heard

Do you know why Asian car makers beat The Big 3 ? They made cars people wanted to buy.
Why did the Big 3 fail, because they made cars they wanted to sell. They eventually woke up.

[MSB1766]

I replaced my Stop, Tail, Brake lights with the same ones JRTJH did in his post above, They are so much brighter its crazy.
Well worth the money.

[BuxCamper]

JRTJH

Did you have to add the license plate light? For my camper the left brake light does double duty with a clear segment at the bottom of the red lens.

SuperBrightLEDs makes a motorcycle light with red and white LEDs but it is a straight design. I suggested they make a 90 degree model for campers. I haven't followed up to see if they did so.

[JRTJH]

Yes I did install a separate license plate light under the tail light on the roadside. It's easy to see the separate light in the photo I included in post #11. If I remember correctly, it was about $6, now they're about $10. While I had the tail lights off, I connected the license plate light wiring to the tail light wiring (easy access in the hole that Keystone cut under the tail light).

One example: https://www.amazon.com/Stud-Mount-LED-Certified-Waterproof-Ultra-Durable/dp/B07937BQYJ/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=LED%2Blicense%2Bplate%2Bl ight&qid=1560091770&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&th=1 Be sure to order the Bracket Mount style, not the Stud Mount style.

ADDED: Hodgy just posted his install (complete with U-Tube video) of these lights in post #120 in this thread: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31016&page=12

[vampress_me]

2 questions for John and anyone else who has replaced their OEM with the Bargman #84 tail lights.

Was it a simple install - as far as I’ve head some LED taillights don’t blink correctly (or is it that they aren’t bright enough?) when hooked up to a truck because the truck senses a difference between the elec usage of the LED and an incandescent bulb? So are these a simple remove old Bargman incandescent sand install these? Or is there another step to make the LED work correctly?

Do you have to have a license plate light on the camper? Because ours from the factory didn’t have a light on the taillight assembly for the license plate. :eek:

[JRTJH]

Lynette,

The LED vs incandescent "blinking issue" is a truck related feedback problem. It doesn't affect the trailer. The tow vehicle doesn't "care" about feedback from the 7 pin connector, so the trailer lights can be LED or incandescent and neither has any influence on the "blinking rate" of the tow vehicle.

That said, on my Cougar, the swap was a direct "one for one" with the exception of needing 6 screws to install each of the new lights. The old lights were attached with 4 screws. I bought a pound of 1" and a pound of 1.5" number 2 Roberts screws about 10 years ago. I'm still using screws from that purchase as replacements when I need a new one. I just stick the pointed end in a Styrofoam block and spray paint the heads to match what I need.

As for the license plate light, if your trailer was "properly equipped from Keystone" there should be a clear plastic lens on the bottom of one of the existing tail lights. That serves as "license plate illumination". That feature isn't present on the LED replacements. When you buy the Bargman #84's, you'll see a "spiderweb of wires" on the back, all connected with three wires, (Brake, Tail and Ground) which are connected to the existing three wires on the trailer. Once you remove the existing tail/brake light, you'll see the three wires. It's just a matter of making sure the brake wire is connected to the brightest circuit wire on the new LED light and the tail light wire is connected to the "dimmest" circuit on the new light. That way, you have "tail lights" and "WHOA THOSE ARE BRIGHT" when you step on the brakes. If you connect them the opposite way, you'll have "very bright tail lights" and "not a significant change in light brightness" when you step on the brakes.

I'd say that the changeout is an easy mod for almost anyone to do. The hardest part is scraping off the old sealant and applying new butyl tape behind the new lights, cleaning the butyl that exudes when the lights are tightened to the trailer skin and then sealing around the lights with SikaFlex or DICOR non-self leveling sealant after the butyl stops "squishing out". It took mine about a week to finally stop "squishing".

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Looks like Jayco heard my plea or had an epiphany of sort. They're launching a whole new idea..

https://youtu.be/qQeMRxPR4E8

JaySmart.

Let's see how long it takes to dribble down to all other RV makers.

[vampress_me]

Thanks guys! I did it today. Changed out the old taillights for the LED ones. These are so much better! And there was only a slight pucker factor drilling a new hole under the taillight for the license plate holder light. Apparently it gets easier all the time to add new holes to the camper. :lol:

[JRTJH]

Congratulations, Lynette. Photos when you get a chance. Seems everyone has a different idea about the license plate light location and wiring, so your solution may help someone who is still "searching for a solution".....