Tow vehicle capacity

[Golfhacker64]

Good morning everyone,
I’ve done a lot of research and I’m just looking for your thoughts or confirmations. My wife and I will be purchasing a 5th wheel next year (Presumably, a Cougar 367FLS). It has a Dry weight of 9998 lbs, GVWR of 12565 lbs., and a Hitch weight of 2165 lbs. we do not plan on traveling with the tanks loaded, maybe Freshwater @ 25% Full. We have a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD, Double Cab 4x2 with an 8 foot bed and 4.10 rear axle. Specs say a GCWR if 20500 lbs. and a Trailer capacity of 14400 lbs. Payload Capacity is 3300 lbs. Everything that I figure shows that I should be fine, am I? FYI, we will not be full-timing, most likely 6 months of living in TX with occasionally journeys. Thanks for the help.
Mike

[MarkEHansen]

There are several numbers which need to be considered. For safety's sake, you should run these numbers assuming the trailer's GVWR, rather than depending on empty tanks, etc. You just don't know what's going to happen when you're out and about.

Also, the pin weight provided by the manufacture is based on the trailer's dry (empty) weight and is not very useful. The pin weight should be calculated at roughly 20-25 percent of the trailer's weight. The weight provided above is about 22% of the trailer's empty weight. 22% of the trailer's GVWR is 2764. This is a more reasonable number with which to work.

Next, you can't depend on the numbers shown in the truck manufacturer's brochures - they are lies^H^H^H^H very optimistic and don't reflect reality. Have a look at the stickers posted in your driver's door jam. There should be one showing the max payload and one showing the gross axle weight ratings (both front and rear).

The payload is one that catches most with the smaller trucks. The payload capacity of your truck needs to be large enough to include all persons, cargo, hitch, pin weight, portable generators, etc. Add everything up and make sure you're still under the max payload.

There's other things to check, but I'll stop here and see where you are. It's good that you're asking up front - it's best to go into this with information other than what is provided by the truck and RV dealers.

Here's a good video: https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

And another: https://youtu.be/qwFLOBrADBs

Good luck.

[Golfhacker64]

Per sticker
GVWR 9500
Front axle GAWR 4400
Rear axle GAWR 6200

[Golfhacker64]

Payload 3145 lbs.

[MarkEHansen]

You're also looking for the payload capacity sticker. It is usually a yellow stick which says something like "All passengers and cargo must not exceed ### lbs"

Edit: Oh, you posted it. Great.

[MarkEHansen]

Those are the numbers you want to work with. Just follow what I said above, as well as the videos and I'm sure others will chime in as well - and make sure you're comfortable with the outcome.

By the way, I'm one of those in the "been there, done that" camp - where in I had a really expensive 1/2 ton SUV and found it was not enough to tow my newly-acquired travel trailer. I had to trade it in (at a great loss) to upgrade to my current truck. Don't make that mistake - it really hurts :(

[Golfhacker64]

Thanks, not going to change the truck. If anything, downgrade the trailer a bit. But, I should be pretty close.

[Fishsizzle]

Seems like your pretty close based on what you have stated sticker says and Mark’s rule on pin weight. Not a lot of payload left for you and passengers, but not as bad as I’ve seen (myself).

[Golfhacker64]

Thanks for your response.

[CWtheMan]

Good morning everyone,
I’ve done a lot of research and I’m just looking for your thoughts or confirmations. My wife and I will be purchasing a 5th wheel next year (Presumably, a Cougar 367FLS). It has a Dry weight of 9998 lbs, GVWR of 12565 lbs., and a Hitch weight of 2165 lbs. we do not plan on traveling with the tanks loaded, maybe Freshwater @ 25% Full. We have a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD, Double Cab 4x2 with an 8 foot bed and 4.10 rear axle. Specs say a GCWR if 20500 lbs. and a Trailer capacity of 14400 lbs. Payload Capacity is 3300 lbs. Everything that I figure shows that I should be fine, am I? FYI, we will not be full-timing, most likely 6 months of living in TX with occasionally journeys. Thanks for the help.
Mike

The 2019 specs for that model show it going up in weight to 14,000# GVWR.

[notanlines]

Thanks for your response.
Mike, in our circle that nickname would start at 'Golfhacker97' and go up from there!:D

[rbrdriver]

That's pretty impressive payload for a 3/4 ton. Of course since yours is not a 4 wheel drive that is probably why. There are also other factors involved, such as side winds, etc, which makes me favor 1 tons.

[Golfhacker64]

Thanks, most likely we will be looking at a used one anyway. I wonder what brought up a 1200 lb. increase in empty weight.

[CWtheMan]

RV trailer tongue weights fall under a mandatory vehicle certification requirement their manufacturers must comply with.

This is how the standard is written: (FMVSS) Paragraph S10.2; On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR.

The weight values of GAWRs and GVWR are shown on the vehicle certification label. The recommended tongue weight MUST be published by the vehicle manufacturer.

[MarkEHansen]

The OP should keep in mind the following:
* Does the truck have the power to pull the load and keep it moving without undue stress to the drive train (or driver)
* Does the truck have sufficient braking power to stop the load, even in the case of potentially inoperative trailer brakes coming down a long grade.
* Does the truck have the stability to control the load even in the following conditions: high winds, trucks passing, emergency maneuvers like an obstacle in the road or a blown truck/trailer tire, etc.

There's a lot to consider. Don't assume you will tow with empty tanks - something might happen which requires that you tow with full tanks. To be safe, you should assume you will be towing the GVWR of the trailer and give yourself a 10-15% buffer above that if you can. Even with a 1-ton diesel dually, there are some trailers I just can't safely pull.

It's good that you're asking. Everyone here wants to help.

[Golfhacker64]

Good, that would make me younger, lol.

[Golfhacker64]

I appreciate the information.

[rhagfo]

The 2019 specs for that model show it going up in weight to 14,000# GVWR.

The OP should keep in mind the following:
* Does the truck have the power to pull the load and keep it moving without undue stress to the drive train (or driver)
* Does the truck have sufficient braking power to stop the load, even in the case of potentially inoperative trailer brakes coming down a long grade.
* Does the truck have the stability to control the load even in the following conditions: high winds, trucks passing, emergency maneuvers like an obstacle in the road or a blown truck/trailer tire, etc.

There's a lot to consider. Don't assume you will tow with empty tanks - something might happen which requires that you tow with full tanks. To be safe, you should assume you will be towing the GVWR of the trailer and give yourself a 10-15% buffer above that if you can. Even with a 1-ton diesel dually, there are some trailers I just can't safely pull.

It's good that you're asking. Everyone here wants to help.

It does look like the 2018 and 2019 versions have about an 11,000# Dry weight and 14,000# GVWR, meaning 3,000# of payload.
If the OP travels lighter, not a bunch of stuff say 1,500# to 2,000# then weight would be 13,000# max times 22% is 2,860, still 300# before over GVWR.
Max Towing of OP's TV is 14,400# of pulling poer so should be good there, just will need to watch what they put in the 5er.

To all the weight police that state things like get a one ton it will handle the wind better, has more power, more braking, etc. I am sorry the difference between a 3/4 ton and one ton SRW are so close to ZERO it would be hard to measure.
Those that say to someone who already has the TV, and looking to see if it will work doesn't want to hear "Get a Bigger TV", that is especially true if suggesting going from a 3/4 ton to a one ton SRW, that is basically a lateral move. The big difference is the listed GVWR and Stated Payload between the two.
That said I will always suggest to someone asking to buy a TV for a 5er, to always get a 350/3500 "One Ton" SRW as a starting point just because far more stated payload.

This is why I choose to go to a 3500 DRW from our 2500.

I towed for years well over the GVWR of our 2001 Ram 2500 CTD, never an issue, but I started worrying about hungry lawyers out there looking to nail an overweight 5th wheel hauler.

[Golfhacker64]

It does look like the 2018 and 2019 versions have about an 11,000# Dry weight and 14,000# GVWR, meaning 3,000# of payload.
If the OP travels lighter, not a bunch of stuff say 1,500# to 2,000# then weight would be 13,000# max times 22% is 2,860, still 300# before over GVWR.
Max Towing of OP's TV is 14,400# of pulling poer so should be good there, just will need to watch what they put in the 5er.

To all the weight police that state things like get a one ton it will handle the wind better, has more power, more braking, etc. I am sorry the difference between a 3/4 ton and one ton SRW are so close to ZERO it would be hard to measure.
Those that say to someone who already has the TV, and looking to see if it will work doesn't want to hear "Get a Bigger TV", that is especially true if suggesting going from a 3/4 ton to a one ton SRW, that is basically a lateral move. The big difference is the listed GVWR and Stated Payload between the two.
That said I will always suggest to someone asking to buy a TV for a 5er, to always get a 350/3500 "One Ton" SRW as a starting point just because far more stated payload.

This is why I choose to go to a 3500 DRW from our 2500.

I towed for years well over the GVWR of our 2001 Ram 2500 CTD, never an issue, but I started worrying about hungry lawyers out there looking to nail an overweight 5th wheel hauler.
Thanks for the great information. A 3500 in the same configuration would gain me 500 lbs in payload and lose 300 lbs in rowing, but good luck finding a 3500 SRW Double/Crew Cab 4x2 with a 6.0 and, I don’t want a diesel. Sounds like this will work out Ok.

[sourdough]

From what I can tell the 367FLS has only been made 2-3 years. I suspect all gvws are 14k. With a payload of 3145 I was sure you had a gas engine. The 6.0 I think you said.

I was looking at trailers a week end or two ago and they had several 367FLS units. My criteria was 13k gvw max. My intention is to go to a 1 ton w/4.10 as well (unless I go diesel). The 367 is too much trailer for the intended truck - and I should have a 41-4200 lb. payload.

At 14k figure a minimum of 2800 for the pin leaving you 345 lbs. for the hitch, folks, and everything else - won't work. Russ brought up "loading light". Again, ain't gonna happen with your plans the way I see it. If you spend 6 months in that trailer I promise you that you will have almost everything in it that you have at your S&B. Is DW going to "get by" without her cookware, utensils, clothes etc.? I think not. You absolutely will not get by with 1500 lbs. of stuff....and what if you have to travel with it at some point with tanks full? That'll be an eye opener. Plus, if you stay in the trailer for 6 mos. you will end up with a 200lb. chest of tools as you try to take care of everything that comes up.

All that is beside the point really. At 14k a truck with a gas engine (current offerings) has no business trying to tow it IMO. I pull 10k and can't imagine strapping 12k back there much less 14k. With the hitch in the truck, the truck and trailer loaded you will more than likely (more more than less) be over your gcvwr and who knows what else.

It appears you picked as large a trailer as possible to fit your max tow rating. That's the upside down way to do it (and dangerous) and I'm glad you are here asking. At least you will make an informed choice.

You said a different truck was not an option so I would highly recommend going to a smaller trailer - maybe a 315RLS, but at 12,400 gvw it's still a load for a gas engine - and it appears you intend to use it to travel cross country.:nonono: It's no fun leaving behind everything you want to take - and you will want to take a LOT when you go a long way, plus I doubt you or DW are willing to throw in 6 paper plates, a pack of plastic ware, a tin pot and some beanie weanies and call it a "dream" trip.:ermm: Good luck and ask away if you have questions or concerns.

[Golfhacker64]

Thanks for all of the information. I've found Cougar FLS's back to 2014 which are 337FLS and up thru 2018, the 367FLS had an empty weight of 9998 and GVWR of 12565 per Keystone's website. I won't tow 14k with my current TV. If needed, definitely will look at something smaller. Thanks. I do appreciate all of the information.

[Golfhacker64]

Pictures attached

More of what we are probably looking at anyway.

[sourdough]

Thanks for all of the information. I've found Cougar FLS's back to 2014 which are 337FLS and up thru 2018, the 367FLS had an empty weight of 9998 and GVWR of 12565 per Keystone's website. I won't tow 14k with my current TV. If needed, definitely will look at something smaller. Thanks. I do appreciate all of the information.


The 337 and 367 are different units. The 367 has been available since 18 per Keystone's website. The 337 had been around for years. The weights for the 337 were constant (within 80 lbs gvw - 12,565 2017) as well as those for the 367 (14,000 2018/19). I knew the 367s were new because I hadn't seen them before the last couple of years. I had seen 337s.

Edit: Whoops, hadn't seen the post above. Yes, the 337 would be a better choice but I still think it's going to tax the truck traveling cross country. My guideline, to me, is preferably diesel over 10-11k, definitely at 12k+. I'm sure it can be done though, and hopefully safely. Good luck.

[RickReichert]

One more thing is needed to be able to calculate the real-world towing capacity of your truck, and that is the truck's actual weight. Fill the fuel tank, load on your tool box, all of your tools, leveling boards, blocks, jacks, fifth-wheel hitch, spare tire, wife, kids, dog, etc., etc. and go to a public scale to have the truck weighed. Subtract this weight from the truck's GVWR and you have the true amount available for trailer pin weight. Also, weigh the truck front and rear axles separately so that you know how much capacity is available on each. I agree with others posting here that its best to use 20-25% of the trailer's GVWR to calculate the pin weight, especially if you haven't yet bought the trailer. If you already own the trailer, load it up like you are going on a trip, drain the black and gray tanks, fill the fresh water tank and tow it to the public scale and have all of the weights measured again. It can be a real eye-opener! I think most of us with 3/4 ton trucks run out of truck load capacity long before we run out of gross towing capacity.

[travelin texans]

Dry rv weights, truck max tow weights & any weights published in brochures are all bull hockey & have absolutely no real world relevance.
Only use the GVW weights for each individual rv or truck & remember close only counts in horseshoes & hand grenades.

[Canadian Len]

Good morning everyone,
I’ve done a lot of research and I’m just looking for your thoughts or confirmations. My wife and I will be purchasing a 5th wheel next year (Presumably, a Cougar 367FLS). It has a Dry weight of 9998 lbs, GVWR of 12565 lbs., and a Hitch weight of 2165 lbs. we do not plan on traveling with the tanks loaded, maybe Freshwater @ 25% Full. We have a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD, Double Cab 4x2 with an 8 foot bed and 4.10 rear axle. Specs say a GCWR if 20500 lbs. and a Trailer capacity of 14400 lbs. Payload Capacity is 3300 lbs. Everything that I figure shows that I should be fine, am I? FYI, we will not be full-timing, most likely 6 months of living in TX with occasionally journeys. Thanks for the help.
Mike

According to the Cougar spec sheet (attached) the empty weight of the 367FLS is 11025. That said, I have one and use a 2500 HD to pull it. You just have to be careful how you load it. Put weight under the bed and you should be fine.

Added note... just saw you’re using a gasser. I’m using a diesel. You will be at a disadvantage there and I wouldn’t do it myself.

[Tireman9]

Be sure to check out THIS (https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers) information on matching truck & trailer.

[itat]

According to the Cougar spec sheet (attached) the empty weight of the 367FLS is 11025. That said, I have one and use a 2500 HD to pull it. You just have to be careful how you load it. Put weight under the bed and you should be fine.

Added note... just saw you’re using a gasser. I’m using a diesel. You will be at a disadvantage there and I wouldn’t do it myself.

Canadian Len, no doubt your 2500 diesel has plenty of pulling power for the 367FLS but have you ever taken your combination to a scale to see how close (or how much over) you are relative to the truck’s GVWR? The diesel engine puts you at a 400 - 600# disadvantage for payload vs a gasser.

When I was shopping for a new 5er recently I really liked the floorplan of the Cougar 315RLS but I’m convinced it would have put me at or over my F-250 gasser’s GVWR. The 367FLS is significantly heavier than the 315RLS and you have the heavy Diesel engine stealing payload capacity.

[Canadian Len]

I did. I was really close on the GVWR when I picked it up empty. There is lots of storage in the rear of the trailer which I’m sure will help reduce the weight on the truck. As far as GCWR, I was about 5500 lbs under.

[rhagfo]

I did. I was really close on the GVWR when I picked it up empty. There is lots of storage in the rear of the trailer which I’m sure will help reduce the weight on the truck. As far as GCWR, I was about 5500 lbs under.

I find statments like this a little hard to believe. The dry pin on that 5er is 2,400#, likely about how much payload your Diesel 2500 has.

I can't say I haven't done it, but so much better ride with a 3500 DRW.