Auto levelling newbie.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

I have a question on using Lippert s Ground Control 3 on my new Cougar 5th wheel.

It's a 4 point system.

I have been using my trusted 2x8s for the last many years to level my Sabre 5th wheel from left to right. Looking at my pin box installed LevelMaster, I would know if I needed a few inches on the left for example. I would then move up or down the front landing gear to level back to front. Many sites are not level left to right...

Enter my new system. Ground Control.

Shall I still use my pieces of wood to level LH to RH, and then use Ground Control auto level button?

Would I put lots of stress on the system by not using those pieces of wood. Should I try level it a bit before using the Auto Level function?

I'm worried about breaking it, having never used such a system.

[jsb5717]

The auto level system is pretty handy but isn't a fix all. There is only so much extension you can get out of the legs so if you're off too much the legs will max out their length before you are level. Since that's true you might need to get yourself closer to level left to right before engaging it. You may also need to put down some blocks under the pads on the elevated side give the legs enough room to level your rig. If your parking spot is relatively level then you'll be OK, but if you're off a few inches then a few blocks will serve you well.

[Stircrazy]

I have a question on using Lippert s Ground Control 3 on my new Cougar 5th wheel.

It's a 4 point system.

I have been using my trusted 2x8s for the last many years to level my Sabre 5th wheel from left to right. Looking at my pin box installed LevelMaster, I would know if I needed a few inches on the left for example. I would then move up or down the front landing gear to level back to front. Many sites are not level left to right...

Enter my new system. Ground Control.

Shall I still use my pieces of wood to level LH to RH, and then use Ground Control auto level button?

Would I put lots of stress on the system by not using those pieces of wood. Should I try level it a bit before using the Auto Level function?

I'm worried about breaking it, having never used such a system.

I don't level side to side with the tires anymore, but I have 8 pads that are 2x10 by 12" long to be able to place under the jacks that will have to extend more.

Steve

[xrated]

Lippert recommends that you be fairly level before deploying the Auto Level. So, what does "fairly level" mean? To me, if the side to side level is off more than say 2-3 inches, I'm going to level the side to side with some Anderson leveling wedges. Then I will place some 2"x10"x12" long boards under the leveling legs to keep them from having to extend as far on the side that has been brought up with the tire levelers. At some point, if you raise the trailer with tire levelers and don't use some type of blocking or pads under the leveling legs, your cylinder will run out of stroke to finish leveling. the other advantage of doing this (with blocks under the leveler legs) is that the leveling jacks do not have to extends as far and the shorter they are, the more stable the trailer becomes.

[Stircrazy]

Lippert recommends that you be fairly level before deploying the Auto Level. So, what does "fairly level" mean? To me, if the side to side level is off more than say 2-3 inches, I'm going to level the side to side with some Anderson leveling wedges. Then I will place some 2"x10"x12" long boards under the leveling legs to keep them from having to extend as far on the side that has been brought up with the tire levelers. At some point, if you raise the trailer with tire levelers and don't use some type of blocking or pads under the leveling legs, your cylinder will run out of stroke to finish leveling. the other advantage of doing this (with blocks under the leveler legs) is that the leveling jacks do not have to extends as far and the shorter they are, the more stable the trailer becomes.

ya I have found it doesn't matter much, 99% of camp sites are fairly level at the start, I have been in a couple where the one side of the trailer tires are off the ground after the level. I think what they mean is that if you are to far out and you don't put extra blockage under the jacks that are going to extend you can get a out of range stroke err, then it is a pain to clear it, leveling the tires wont help with this situation it is the jacks that you have to be able to add blocks under so you doing get a over stroke conditions. you get this a couple times and you will learn when you have to do it.

Steve

[Frank G]

As long as you are within 3or 4 inches in either direction and you put some 2 by's under the jacks, especially the jacks that have to do the most travel you will be OK. The system is plenty strong, it will lift the coach off the ground. In an emergency you can use it to change a flat tire. Remember, you need a good fully charged battery to use the system. The truth be known, the DW is in charge of the Level-UP system. Just following orders. :hide:

Use some common sense when manually extending the front legs. If your rig is setting nose high, leave enough room under the jacks so the level-up system can retract the front legs enough to level the unit front to back. You will understand after a few uses and the ease of use will be apricated.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

Thank you all for your comments. Guess I can retire those darn 2x8s. Once again the DW was right, she said she kept reading that it was strong enough to lift and hold, using pads under the jacks to help with stroke travel.

Appreciate it, ��

[jsmith948]

Okay...the whole point of having the AUTO-LEVEL system is to eliminate having to tow your trailer up onto blocks or leveling wedges/widgets. Those of you that say you have to be level side to side BEFORE employing the ground control are, IMHO, mistaken:flowers:

This is what we do:

1. Park the camper where we want it to be - you know - awning will clear the trees, power cord and hoses will reach, etc.

2. Open the control panel door and observe which of the red/orange lights are blinking - this will give you and idea of what is low.

3. Eyeball the distance from the jack pads to the ground and decide how many, if any, plastic leveler pads to place under each leg.

4. Raise the nose of the trailer and unhook truck.

5. Push the AUTO-LEVEL button. Provided the nose was higher than level when you unhooked (as it should be so that the auto re-connect feature will work) the ground control will then lower the nose of the trailer. While it is doing that, the DW and I go to the rear jacks so that, when they start to deploy, we can make sure the pads are centered under the jacks.

6. Go back and monitor the control panel screen - when it says success, lock the little door -done.

It's what works for us. We leave the 1/2 cord of 2x10s at home;)

[jsb5717]

I"m a big fan of efficiency in set up and not having to pre-level side to side is appealing. I am fairly new to auto leveling, having done it the old fashioned way for 35 years. I watched some videos on the topic and this seems to be one of varied opinions.

Is there a difference in methology between hydrolic and electric levelers? My understanding has been that the thinking behind pre-leveling if the differential is more than a couple inches is to mitigate sagging and movement in the trailer. by taking too much weight off of the wheels. Is that a concern? What about 4 pt. vs 6 pt. Are these variables that require different answers?

[travelin texans]

Okay...the whole point of having the AUTO-LEVEL system is to eliminate having to tow your trailer up onto blocks or leveling wedges/widgets. Those of you that say you have to be level side to side BEFORE employing the ground control are, IMHO, mistaken:flowers:

This is what we do:

1. Park the camper where we want it to be - you know - awning will clear the trees, power cord and hoses will reach, etc.

2. Open the control panel door and observe which of the red/orange lights are blinking - this will give you and idea of what is low.

3. Eyeball the distance from the jack pads to the ground and decide how many, if any, plastic leveler pads to place under each leg.

4. Raise the nose of the trailer and unhook truck.

5. Push the AUTO-LEVEL button. Provided the nose was higher than level when you unhooked (as it should be so that the auto re-connect feature will work) the ground control will then lower the nose of the trailer. While it is doing that, the DW and I go to the rear jacks so that, when they start to deploy, we can make sure the pads are centered under the jacks.

6. Go back and monitor the control panel screen - when it says success, lock the little door -done.

It's what works for us. We leave the 1/2 cord of 2x10s at home;)
We do almost the same with exception of step 5. I had to disconnect & move the truck completely out from under as the 1st step in the auto level was to lower the nose til the jacks were almost completely retracted, truck or rv would've been damaged without moving out of the way.
The hydraulic system is much stronger than the electric & in my opinion a better system. As to 4 or 6 point I'd think that would be determined by rv weight & length.
My recommendation is the 1st time using the auto level system is to have the recalibration sequence ready, level in manual mode, level the rv to your liking using levels side to side front to rear & then do the recalibration, now it will relevel to your liking every time. After doing this though it will not go back to hitch height this time, next time it will. Any time you you relevel in manual mode after unhitching & using auto level the reconnect memory will be lost for that time.

[Ksupaul]

Starting year two with our 4 point 3.0 Lippert system. Have yet to use blocks left to right. I would it if looked bad enough and I had no other choice in sites. But we have been in 10-12 different sites now and it hasn’t been issue. As I type this my left side tires are off the ground 2 inches and right side is on the ground. Often wonder if I would have less movement if I did have these tires on blocks, but honestly I just don’t have much movement. so it couldn’t improve much.

[MarkEHansen]

I've been using the Ground Control 3.0 system for a few months now. I'm of the opinion that you should let the system level the trailer. I don't agree that you should recalibrate the system upon first use - I didn't have to do that. I would suggest that as an option only if the auto level claims the trailer is level but it's not.

I've never noticed any movement in the trailer when the tires are off the ground, so this isn't a concern for me. I just let the system do what it wants.

I've had some times when I've received the "out of stroke" error. I just press the auto-level button again and it works the second time. Perhaps when this happens it gives up the hitch coupler position memory? I don't care about that anyway, so I wouldn't have noticed.

When I can see the trailer is leaning one way, I'll place some plastic yellow blocks under those leveling feet, but that's it.

I love this system - what a time saver.

For those that want to level the trailer first and then run the auto-level system, I just shake my head.

[chuckster57]

“Level up” is hydraulic and as stated, will lower the nose before leveling. Ground control is electric and doesn’t.

Level up is 6 point
Ground control can be either 4 or 6 point. I think number of jacks in ground control is determined by GVWR.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

As per Lippert's literature, 4 point is used for under 15,000 lbs RVs, 6 point for heavier units.

[jsb5717]

“Level up” is hydraulic and as stated, will lower the nose before leveling. Ground control is electric and doesn’t.

Level up is 6 point
Ground control can be either 4 or 6 point. I think number of jacks in ground control is determined by GVWR.

I actually just parked and leveled my trailer with my Ground Control 3.0 Electric 4pt jacks. It first lowered the front, then proceded to auto level. I just looked through my manual and it doesn't really address the issue of leveling when there is a multi-inch difference from side to side. All it says is start by parking on a level surface. Otherwise relocate the vehicle. Not real helpful but they are likely taking the safe road for liability's sake.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

.... All it says is start by parking on a level site... .
Which is why I asked the question to start with, it's a vague statement.

[MarkEHansen]

They just don't want you trying to level on a surface where only a mountain goat would dare tread :) - If the system was designed to work only on a level surface, it wouldn't be very useful.

[xrated]

Starting year two with our 4 point 3.0 Lippert system. Have yet to use blocks left to right. I would it if looked bad enough and I had no other choice in sites. But we have been in 10-12 different sites now and it hasn’t been issue. As I type this my left side tires are off the ground 2 inches and right side is on the ground. Often wonder if I would have less movement if I did have these tires on blocks, but honestly I just don’t have much movement. so it couldn’t improve much.

If you are getting the tires off the ground, you may want to check as you are lowering everything back down the the shackles didn't flip. That is one of the reasons that I will try to never have the tires off the ground when leveling.

[jsb5717]

The real issue is whether to lift the tires off the ground or not. I don't know if there is a diffinitive answer but found this

https://www.etrailer.com/question-258321.html

And this from the manual

Never lift the unit completely off the ground. Lifting the unit so the wheels are not touching the ground will create an unstable and unsafe condition.

[GeekSquadOfUn]

The real issue is whether to lift the tires off the ground or not. I don't know if there is a diffinitive answer but found this

https://www.etrailer.com/question-258321.html

And this from the manual

Never lift the unit completely off the ground. Lifting the unit so the wheels are not touching the ground will create an unstable and unsafe condition.

Thank you, makes sense.

[Stircrazy]

The real issue is whether to lift the tires off the ground or not. I don't know if there is a diffinitive answer but found this

https://www.etrailer.com/question-258321.html

And this from the manual

Never lift the unit completely off the ground. Lifting the unit so the wheels are not touching the ground will create an unstable and unsafe condition.

that's a liability statement, I talked to them one day when I first got mine to see if I could use the system to change a tire. they said oh ya there is no issue lifting the tires off the ground. so take everything with a grain of salt.

Steve

[babaloo]

Yes !...Thats what I do with my Cougar 279 RKSWE. Level L to R with blocks.....then watch my bubbles for front to back adjustment, finishing off with "auto level". Auto Level can lift tires off the ground quickly, so I disagree with those who say ' I've had my wheels off the ground many times, with no problem'....I'd much rather have those 2 wheels on the ground, than floating and relying on my 2 relatively small electric jacks to pick up the weight on that side, (4 jack Auto Level system). So much more stable with wheels touching AND jacks, and I believe, better for frame as well.

[OregonDuck]

We're at 1 year with the 3.0, 4 point elec system. I've found (as mentioned on older posts in the forum) that you don't want to lower the manual portion of the front jacks all the way to the ground when setting up; rather, leave about 6-7" to the ground, then hit the "drop front jacks" function.

This is specific to helping not lift the tires off the ground. The front jacks need enough extension to lower as much as needed during the auto level. If they don't have much play, the rear jacks overcompensate, lifting the wheels off the ground.

All this said, I've also found that at about 1.5 degrees off level side-to-side at the start (seen on the control pad when we first park) will, on our rig, lift the wheels and cause an out of stroke error regardless of the front jacks. We've been out many many times in our first year with the system, and this has only happened twice. We chose to put blocks under both tires and rear jack; we were more comfortable with wheels on ground for stability. YMMV

[ken56]

I will use my lego blocks to level side to side when needed and I have needed to a few times. While there is no issue with flexing the frame lifting the tires off the ground or other concerns like that I just do it because I know I'm going to need blocks under the jacks to prevent the out of stroke issue. I do really like the system though. You will get to learn about the quirks and how to deal with them. They are minor really.

[jimborokz]

I park at the same winter site ever year. The first year I had the level up system I put one 2x10 under the right to "pre-level" r to L as I used to with my old rig. In the PDI the dealer told me it needed to be very close to level for the system to work. After going to sites worse than mine and having no issue I now just hit the auto level and it does fine and all wheels stay on the ground. If I had a tire come off the ground I would likely move to a different site or block the tire to keep it in contact just so the suspension is not hanging. I have not encountered a site that is that bad. I would raise high enough to get a tire off the ground to change a tire but not for a longer period with the slides out.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Well we are on year 4 with Ground Control 3.0, and even so most of the time it works great, a lot of times it does not. The problem is always "out of stroke" even so that is not true. I have read a lot about this system since we bought it and apparently if one side of the jacks is 2" or more than the other side, you will get "out of stroke" as a safety feature because it thinks it might be twisting the frame. We have been to lots of uneven campsites and trying to judge how much to let the manual part of the front jacks down so that the end result is within 2" between the two is pain. I have had it to the dealer twice about this and they just say it works as designed.

The biggest aggravating thing about this "out of stroke" error is that it will not reset by itself without manually retracting all jacks so they can "home" themselves. This requires hooking the truck back up because if not, the front jacks strain too much to lift from being bottomed out. Over the years, I have found little things to do to try to have success but I have cussed this system out loud many many times. I may just have a "lemon" but I will never have it again. I will only have level up in the future.

[MarkEHansen]

It sure sounds like your GC 3.0 is having problem and you're dealer is not helping. Have you called Lippert?

I've gotten the Out of Stroke error a few times. In each case, I just press Auto Level again and it levels the trailer. I've never, ever had to re-home the jacks.

I do *not* pre-level the trailer before auto-leveling it. I will place some of those yellow square plastic pads under the low-side leveling legs, but that's it. Works great every time.

[chuckster57]

"out of stroke" shouldn't cause you to rehome the jacks. We have retracted all without it being hooked to anything with no problems. The trick as we have found is the front landing gear don't like being more than 2 holes different and no more than 8-10 holes showing.

[jsb5717]

During our PDI we were encouraged not to extend the front jacks beyond 8 holes as well. Seems to be good advice that helps stability and allows the system to work as well as possible. Use blocks to make up the difference.

[NotyetMHCowner]

To be clear, the error message I actually get is "out of stroke" and "retract all jacks". It goes on to tell me which jack is out of stroke (that's how I know for sure that it is not out of stroke). It also tells me I can manually retract all jacks or hold the retract button. That is all it allows. Nothing else. So I have not choice to retract all of them and start over. This has happened many times over the last 4 years.

The reason I hook back up and not let the jacks all the way down is because they strain so hard and sometimes one of the front jacks just quits raising. One of our first trips was headed out west. Our first night we stayed at a site that was downhill. I had to drop the jacks all the way without pulling the pin to show the "holes", so that when the truck was out of the way the camper could drop low enough to level. Well I spent an hour on the phone with Lippert the next morning trying to get both jacks to raise. Tech support just came to the conclusion that battery voltage was too low. Well it probably was by then. So I had to get the bottle jack out of the truck and help raise the camper back up to get hooked. This isn't the only time I have had to do this. I have since then replaced the 40amp breaker with a 80 amp breaker and I have added a #6awg wire in parallel with the factory wire to the auto level controller to help with voltage drop. I also have 4 golf cart batteries. I have never had another problem with the breaker kicking and low voltage.


One thing I have noticed if I have lowered the front way down is they seem to get in a bind when raising because of the camper "settling in" then when raising, the jacks are a little too far forward or too far backward. For instance, as I am dropping it down on the truck and the weight is coming off the jacks, they sometimes "scoot" up to an inch or so on the ground to find their "neutral". Even as recent as last fall I had to use the bottle jack to raise the front left jack. The FR lifts just fine but the FL just doesn't lift the weight of the camper. When I help it with the jack, it raises. My pin weight is 3660, so I know its more than most, but two 5,000 pound rated front jacks should never have a problem.

I had the camper in for warranty work (extended warranty) right before it expired in April, and asked them again to look into these problems. I asked them to find out if there had been any software updates made with GC 3.0 since ours was made in 2015. Of course the answer was no (imagine that).

We have an Andersen Ultimate fifth wheel connection hitch, so that is why I have to raise it off of the truck and drop it back down on the truck (instead of just dropping jacks and driving out from under it).

[chuckster57]

GC 3.0 is voltage sensitive. 12.7 on the display before you start anything or it might error out.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I never lift the camper without being hooked to the truck and idling. That way I have around 13 volts or more.

[MarkEHansen]

When you're connected to the truck, you're reading the charging voltage, not the battery voltage - it's not the same.

[chuckster57]

I never lift the camper without being hooked to the truck and idling. That way I have around 13 volts or more.



One last thing. Has anybody dropped the coroplast and checked the rear sensor? It has to be SOLID against its mount.

[NotyetMHCowner]

It will strain too hard if not assisted by either the truck or shore power and shore power is only a trickle charge, so the best help is with the trucks alternator assisting.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Low voltage is no longer a problem with my setup. Just the stupid "out of stroke" error.

[JRTJH]

It will strain too hard if not assisted by either the truck or shore power and shore power is only a trickle charge, so the best help is with the trucks alternator assisting.

I'm not sure where you heard that, but shore power 12VDC output from the converter/charger is upwards of 25-75 amps at 13.6 VDC, depending on the other 12 volt load on the converter. That's significantly MORE amperage than you'll ever get through the tow vehicle "7 pin plug".....

[NotyetMHCowner]

Not if my batteries are 100%, right?

[chuckster57]

I have put a VOM meter on the battery posts while operating GC 3.0. Display showed 12.9 and when the system started operating the VOM showed dips to 11.9 on a brand new battery.

I too spent 2 1/2 hrs with LCI tech support, and was told if the voltage dropped below 12.0 for any length of time, errors would probably occur.

I then plugged into shore power, display showed 13.4, VOM showed a dip to 12.1 during operation.

Been a while so I don’t remember what fixed it, but I think the battery was changed.

Fast forward a few months and a unit with GC 3.0 6 point. Intermittent failure, out of stroke and Jack error. Ended up being the rear sensor was loose.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I just checked real quick while outside: on battery power only, 12.8 resting (I had just unplugged my shore power) and 12.2 raising front jacks. I did this a few times and got it down to 12.0 battery only. Plugged back into shore power and shows 13.4 resting and 12.3 raising. It did drop to 12.2 raising the third time.

Before I added the second #6awg wire, it dropped below 12 anytime I was raising the front jacks. I have never received a low voltage error, but I did not like the voltage drop of the little factory wire.

When I get some time, I will put a volt meter on the batteries and look at the difference between the battery voltage and the auto level voltage.

Like I said before, I do not have a voltage problem (or at least that is not the major problem). I have an issue with whatever causes the "out of stroke" & "retract all jacks" problem that causes such a fuss at the campground. And this has never been a problem on virtually level sites. It is always when side to side is a problem or having to drop the front way down.

[Stircrazy]

I have an issue with whatever causes the "out of stroke" & "retract all jacks" problem that causes such a fuss at the campground.

the error that causes out of stroke is an operator error, I have had it twice now and it is because I didn't put extra blocks under the jacks that are going to extend to much and hit the end of there travel. leveling the tires wont prevent it you also have to add blocks accordingly to the jacks that are going to need it.

I carry 10, 2x10 chunks in my trailer just for this reason now as I camp in a lot of uneven areas.

Steve

[MarkEHansen]

That might be true in your case, but isn't it also possible that some have problems which aren't due to operator error? In the cases where I received Out of Stroke, I just pushed auto level again and it worked. Is that operator error? I think if the thing can level, it should have leveled the first time.

[jsb5717]

Yeah, definately a glitch in the firmware. I have gotten the same error just after unhooking from the truck and pushed Auto Level on reasonably level ground and before the rear jacks even start to descend. A second push seems to work though so not devistating.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I have even got the "out of stroke" error on one of the rear jacks and it wasnt even down touching the 3 - 2"x12" I had under it. It has never been out of stroke, ever, yet that is the error I always get.

I am glad they apparently have made them better with the newer ones. I just wish they would have replaced my controller with a new one. I'll just have to live with it from now on. I am going to get some Andersen wedge levelers and a big level to attach to the pin box to help with getting it level before auto leveling. haha

[xrated]

I'm not sure where you heard that, but shore power 12VDC output from the converter/charger is upwards of 25-75 amps at 13.6 VDC, depending on the other 12 volt load on the converter. That's significantly MORE amperage than you'll ever get through the tow vehicle "7 pin plug".....

That statement ^^^^^^ is 100% accurate

[NotyetMHCowner]

That's good to know. I got bad information years ago. I will start hooking up shore power before auto leveling from now on instead of using the truck. Thanks!!

[xrated]

Plugging in shore power is my first item of business when I land in a spot. Then I chock the wheels and start unhitching.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I played with it a little today after work and screwed it up again! I was checking voltages plugged in, battery only, and hooked to TV. I retracted the front jacks all the way and bam, the error. Whats bad is the error said "ERROR RR Jack" "Manually Retract all jacks" "or hold RETRACT to AUTO RETRACT". Now what sucks about this is that it wont do a damn thing else until you retract all jacks. The fronts were already retracted (I did have the rear jacks down 6 inches or so). After holding the retract button, as soon as it realized that the front jacks were already retracted, it wouldn't clear the error or retract the rear jacks. So I tried to extend the front jacks at least 6 inches but it would not run both of them. Part of the time it ran the FR and sometimes the FL. A couple of times it ran both. I had to get the floor jack out and help the side that wasn't extending. After a while I got them out about 6 inches and after retracting all of them to a hard stop, then all was fine. Just like every other time.

One thing I noticed was my front stroke was about about .5" difference between the two front jacks. When I was originally retracting them, I noticed one stopped before the other one. Once the second one bottomed out, that is when I got the error.


This was done on my perfectly level pad. And so far the voltages do look better on shore power.

[Javi]

I played with it a little today after work and screwed it up again! I was checking voltages plugged in, battery only, and hooked to TV. I retracted the front jacks all the way and bam, the error. Whats bad is the error said "ERROR RR Jack" "Manually Retract all jacks" "or hold RETRACT to AUTO RETRACT". Now what sucks about this is that it wont do a damn thing else until you retract all jacks. The fronts were already retracted (I did have the rear jacks down 6 inches or so). After holding the retract button, as soon as it realized that the front jacks were already retracted, it wouldn't clear the error or retract the rear jacks. So I tried to extend the front jacks at least 6 inches but it would not run both of them. Part of the time it ran the FR and sometimes the FL. A couple of times it ran both. I had to get the floor jack out and help the side that wasn't extending. After a while I got them out about 6 inches and after retracting all of them to a hard stop, then all was fine. Just like every other time.



One thing I noticed was my front stroke was about about .5" difference between the two front jacks. When I was originally retracting them, I noticed one stopped before the other one. Once the second one bottomed out, that is when I got the error.





This was done on my perfectly level pad. And so far the voltages do look better on shore power.Sounds like you need to recalibrate the system. I've had to do that once in 5 years with mine..

[Stircrazy]

That might be true in your case, but isn't it also possible that some have problems which aren't due to operator error? In the cases where I received Out of Stroke, I just pushed auto level again and it worked. Is that operator error? I think if the thing can level, it should have leveled the first time.

that's a weird one, sounds like it might have been a glitch. when I read the manual, the only way to clear a "out of stroke" is to manually retract all jacks and start again. and I had to do them one at a time. for me it also meant putting the truck back under the 5th wheel. the first time before I could fix it I had to go to a local hardware store and buy some more blocking :facepalm:

Steve

[NotyetMHCowner]

A little bit of an update to my situation, I finally got the "out of stroke" error that did NOT require to retract all the jacks. The front jacks were actually out of stroke. It gave me the error, told me to acknowledge by pressing "enter", then it cleared. Just like it is supposed to.

So all these times, when I have got the "out of stroke" error, it probably was low voltage instead. Why in the world would it not just say that!

I cant wait to go Lithium instead of lead acid so my voltages will be higher.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Update again, We received the "out of stroke" twice last weekend and both times it was truly out of stroke. It let me press enter to acknowledge and cleared the error. So all these other times it was probably low voltage. But instead of saying low voltage, it would say "out of stroke". That's really helpful when trying to diagnose.

By the way, both campgrounds this past weekend were down hill towards the truck. I put the manual part of the jacks down all the way to the ground, but to level, it extended the front jacks all the way. The only way to correct this is to drive the rear tires of the truck up on blocks so as to get the camper nose higher before un-hooking.

[OregonDuck]

Update again, We received the "out of stroke" twice last weekend and both times it was truly out of stroke. It let me press enter to acknowledge and cleared the error. So all these other times it was probably low voltage. But instead of saying low voltage, it would say "out of stroke". That's really helpful when trying to diagnose.

By the way, both campgrounds this past weekend were down hill towards the truck. I put the manual part of the jacks down all the way to the ground, but to level, it extended the front jacks all the way. The only way to correct this is to drive the rear tires of the truck up on blocks so as to get the camper nose higher before un-hooking.

Just out of curiosity, which jack or jacks were out of stroke? You mention lowering the front manual jacks all the way to the ground. I did this mistakenly as well when I first brought home my rig. When you do this, the auto level cannot drop the front down to begin the leveling process, which in turn leaves the rear jacks needing to over extend to compensate.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The front jacks were out of stroke because of having to raise so high to get level. The site ran downhill from rear to front. I have a small level I use to ensure I raise the front high enough for the auto level to work. The front has to be just above level for auto level to work. Also both sites were downhill on the left side, so during the auto level process the left rear had to raise to get level side to side. By doing this the front left had to raise higher to get level, then when out of stroke.

Luckily each time it has done this, the camper was almost level anyway and we just live with it. The problem is the jacks wont really extend far enough for unlevel sites.

[MarkEHansen]

We always place pads under the two jacks on the low side. We have those little yellow stackable ones. Our storage area is really not level and we just put two or three under each low-side pad and it levels just fine. Without the pads, we were getting out of stroke errors.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I have 3 2"x12" screwed together for the rear jacks (since they are short and have no manual extensions) and 1 2"x12" for the front jacks. I have added additional 2"x12" when its been really bad but not usually. Its just a shame that apparently this is only a problem with the electric Ground Control. The hydraulic Level Up works great no matter how unlevel, from what I have heard.

[travelin texans]

We always place pads under the two jacks on the low side. We have those little yellow stackable ones. Our storage area is really not level and we just put two or three under each low-side pad and it levels just fine. Without the pads, we were getting out of stroke errors.

Exactly what I did.
There were times that had to use all or most of the Lynx Levelers on the front jacks. If you always park where it's semi level there's no blocks required, but at some point they will definitely be mandatory & the stackable plastic ones were lightest easiest to handle or store. I had 3 sets of them & there were spots that I'd have to use most or all of them on the low side.

[MarkEHansen]

We have a bumper pull trailer and I found that the higher the tongue is when starting the leveling process, the more chance you have of running "out of stroke". I was lowering the nose before leveling, but then just started adding the blocks under the low side and now, no more problems.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I also have a set of the plastic lynx levelers but havent used them in a while due to them being smaller than the feet on may jacks. Thats why I use 12"x12" wood blocks.

The Ground Control Auto Level system requires that the nose is higher than level before it starts, otherwise it will cause an error.

[MarkEHansen]

That's not the experience I have, but I have a bumper pull, not a 5th Wheel.

[chuckster57]

The Ground Control Auto Level system requires that the nose is higher than level before it starts, otherwise it will cause an error.

I don’t know about GC on a bumper pull, but on a fifth wheel it only has to be nose high for “auto hitch recognition” to work. I have watched auto level complete without any errors with the nose down.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I stand corrected. I forgot that nose high was only for hitch recognition. I don't think I have ever started auto level with nose down because of having an Andersen hitch and it requires to raise it up to get off of the ball.

The only thing that I could have done this past weekend is to drive the rear tires of the truck up onto some boards to raise it before dropping the front jacks. Otherwise it was inevitable that the front jacks were going to run out of stroke

[travelin texans]

I stand corrected. I forgot that nose high was only for hitch recognition. I don't think I have ever started auto level with nose down because of having an Andersen hitch and it requires to raise it up to get off of the ball.

The only thing that I could have done this past weekend is to drive the rear tires of the truck up onto some boards to raise it before dropping the front jacks. Otherwise it was inevitable that the front jacks were going to run out of stroke

Put a couple blocks under the front jacks.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I did put a couple of blocks under the front jacks. When I first pulled into the first site, I dropped the jacks manually to within about an inch from the ground. Tried to auto level and got the "out of stroke" error. I hooked the truck back up and then dropped the manual part of the jacks all the way to the ground (with a 12"x12" 2by12" under them) then auto level again. It still gave the "out of stroke" error but was almost level so we lived with it. The campsite was running down hill from back to front so the rig had to raise really high to get level. The only way I could have gotten more blocks under the front jacks was to raise the rear of the truck higher before un-hitching. The front jacks just dont have enough extension for some campsites. There was no way to move the rig to a different part of the site to help it.

[Dave fromRockcliffeTheSea]

ya I have found it doesn't matter much, 99% of camp sites are fairly level at the start, I have been in a couple where the one side of the trailer tires are off the ground after the level. I think what they mean is that if you are to far out and you don't put extra blockage under the jacks that are going to extend you can get a out of range stroke err, then it is a pain to clear it, leveling the tires wont help with this situation it is the jacks that you have to be able to add blocks under so you doing get a over stroke conditions. you get this a couple times and you will learn when you have to do it.

Steve
The manual says that the jacks are not meant to be used to lift the tires off the ground but the auto levelling feature contiiuously lifts one side off the ground???

[Northofu1]

Hi Dave,
I didn't read my manual, lol, but I do use it to lift tires off ground to service breaks and bearings. I auto level it first then raise front and back as evenly as possible until achieving right height. Of course I do this on level ground.
If you're concerned about tires coming off ground, manually level the trailer first with blocks or wood or planks. Place blocks under all 4 rams then hit auto level. I think that might do the trick for you.

[Stircrazy]

The manual says that the jacks are not meant to be used to lift the tires off the ground but the auto levelling feature contiiuously lifts one side off the ground???

which manual the ones from cougar or lippart. I have one that says its not suposed to and another tell you how to lift the wheels off the ground for service.... go figure. they are rated to lifty the whole 5th wheel and a lot more and ots more even support on the frame that the wheels are, so I dont see an issue.

Steve

[Ribtip]

I find that if im on a 2 deg lean or more the tires will come off the ground on the low side so i use boards under those tires. I've also had the tires off the ground for 2 weeks because of just bening plain lazy and not wanting to reconfigure. When i did have the tires off the ground the rv felt just as planted as when they are on the ground. Didnt seem to matter either way.

[travelin texans]

Try this, it worked on mine!
Once unhooked from the truck, truck out of way, lower the front 3-4" before using auto level. By doing this you'll lose the rehitch memory but it should level a bit lower than previously keeping the wheels on the ground, at this time use your bubble level inside to fine tune to your satisfaction using the manual mode then recalibrate the system. Once unhooked from the truck if you hit auto level the front would drop but leveled from the unhooked higher position, this method the front still dropped but leveled much lower. I also put 2-3 of the Lynx Levelers under each everywhere we parked to keep the jacks as short as possible to feel more stable.
Hope this makes sense?

[Rdegroat]

The issue I have run into several times with my bumper tow and auto level is parking in a site that slopes from front to back. It seems
to me that the front jacks are unable to lift when they are already close to the ground and I get an out of stroke error when the front jacks have only moved a couple of inches. Has anyone else ran into this situation? And what did you do to overcome the problem?

[MarkEHansen]

I always put blocks under the low side jacks. Since I've started doing this, no more 'out of stroke' errors.

[JoyandJoey]

Jack, I quoted you because you have been doing this a while. We are new to auto leveling. Where we park our camper, the front end is more up hill than the back. We had to raise the front end high to get it off the gooseneck. We then lowered the front end all the way down to get it somewhat level and hit the auto leveler. It would do nothing...would not engage at all. We played around with each of the 6 point levels and eventually got the auto leveler to work (we have no idea what combination we did to get it to work). Do you have any idea why it wouldn't level initially? It seemed to be the result of the front end being literally all the way down before we pressed the auto level.

Thanks in advance!

Okay...the whole point of having the AUTO-LEVEL system is to eliminate having to tow your trailer up onto blocks or leveling wedges/widgets. Those of you that say you have to be level side to side BEFORE employing the ground control are, IMHO, mistaken:flowers:

This is what we do:

1. Park the camper where we want it to be - you know - awning will clear the trees, power cord and hoses will reach, etc.

2. Open the control panel door and observe which of the red/orange lights are blinking - this will give you and idea of what is low.

3. Eyeball the distance from the jack pads to the ground and decide how many, if any, plastic leveler pads to place under each leg.

4. Raise the nose of the trailer and unhook truck.

5. Push the AUTO-LEVEL button. Provided the nose was higher than level when you unhooked (as it should be so that the auto re-connect feature will work) the ground control will then lower the nose of the trailer. While it is doing that, the DW and I go to the rear jacks so that, when they start to deploy, we can make sure the pads are centered under the jacks.

6. Go back and monitor the control panel screen - when it says success, lock the little door -done.

It's what works for us. We leave the 1/2 cord of 2x10s at home;)

[jimborokz]

You have to start nose high for the auto level to work. If you lowered it below level the process wouldn't work. When you unhook and the nose is high just hit the auto level at that point. The first move will lower the nose way down and it will level from there.

[JoyandJoey]

Thanks! One other question...in order to get the nose down enough to level, we actually had to remove some of the blocks that we put under it initially to get it off the ball. This involved another complicated (trial and error) process of putting weight on the back 4 jacks to get weight off the front to remove the blocks. Now, I have no idea how to get the blocks back under the front to get it raised enough to get it back on the gooseneck. I'm sure this is simple and we'll figure it out when we try, but I'm terrified of making the wrong choice and doing some kind of crazy damage. Our old 26 foot bumper pull with scissor jacks has nothing on this! Haha. Thansk again Jim!

You have to start nose high for the auto level to work. If you lowered it below level the process wouldn't work. When you unhook and the nose is high just hit the auto level at that point. The first move will lower the nose way down and it will level from there.

[CedarCreekWoody]

X2. As Jim explained it must be nose high to begin the autolevel process. This is also the position the system will remember and return to when you initiate the action to reconnect. On my Andersen hitch it is almost always nose high when I disconnect, returning to the perfect location to reconnect.

[jsb5717]

...Where we park our camper, the front end is more up hill than the back. We had to raise the front end high to get it off the gooseneck. We then lowered the front end all the way down to get it somewhat level and hit the auto leveler....

I assume this is your home parking spot. How much of a slope are you parked on? It sounds a little precarious, even dangerous, if you aren't able to level after disconnecting from your truck. I hope you are locking/blocking the wheels well to keep it from rolling downhill.

You have to start nose high for the auto level to work. If you lowered it below level the process wouldn't work. When you unhook and the nose is high just hit the auto level at that point. The first move will lower the nose way down and it will level from there.

X3 - this is correct. Disconnect from truck then Auto Level. The system will take if from there. If the trailer can't level then your parking spot is too steep. Your jacks are out of stroke before you achieve level. You could:



manually level the trailer as best you can and manually reset to reconnect the truck later. You might just need to accept that you won't be completely level in your home parking spot
place adequately sized blocks under the rear and mid jacks to allow the auto level to complete. You might find your steps a little higher off of the ground

[Javi]

Last week my auto level decided it wouldn't work... Fooled with it for a minute and raised the nose up about two inches above level.. Hit auto level and away we go...

First time that has happened to me, but then I've never gotten the re-hitch function to work either..

[travelin texans]

Last week my auto level decided it wouldn't work... Fooled with it for a minute and raised the nose up about two inches above level.. Hit auto level and away we go...

First time that has happened to me, but then I've never gotten the re-hitch function to work either..

After unhooking from the truck if you ever use the system in manual mode it will have lost the re-hitch memory.

[Javi]

After unhooking from the truck if you ever use the system in manual mode it will have lost the re-hitch memory.

I won't say never, but generally speaking I use manual to raise the trailer to un-hitch then pull out from under it and hit Auto Level... When I go to re-hitch I always try the Return To Hitch Height ... I've never gotten it to work.. Gives me a error

I then resort to manual to raise the rear jacks and lower the front to hitch height..

Not a big deal... it never worked on the other trailer either although the Ground Control 3 did have Auto Retract Rear... The hydraulic system doesn't have that feature.. I have to hold the button :D

[MattHelm21]

I won't say never, but generally speaking I use manual to raise the trailer to un-hitch then pull out from under it and hit Auto Level... When I go to re-hitch I always try the Return To Hitch Height ... I've never gotten it to work.. Gives me a error

I then resort to manual to raise the rear jacks and lower the front to hitch height..

Not a big deal... it never worked on the other trailer either although the Ground Control 3 did have Auto Retract Rear... The hydraulic system doesn't have that feature.. I have to hold the button :D

I'm pretty sure the step you are missing is that you want to do the entire process in Auto. Don't start be lowering the front jacks by scrolling to manual mode. Lower them immediately after switching the system on while it is in Auto. Then once you are unhitched you can use the Auto button to level and the re-hitch function should work when you go to hitch back up.

[Javi]

Sorry, the only AUTO on my panel is AUTO LEVEL and AUTO RAISE ALL.
The instructions clearly state.. turn on and push front jack button to raise trailer from hitch.