BC License to tow over 4600 kgs

[66joej]

Just a heads up to RVers in BC. If your RV is heavier than 4600kgs (10000lbs) you need a code 07 endorsement on your drivers license to legally tow and insure the RV in BC. Quite a bit involved to get this endorsement.
Log onto ICBC and put "towing an rv over 4600 kgs." for more info.

[Tbos]

Does that apply to tourist from the USA too?

[Brentw]

No, Generally as long as you are properly licensed for you residence area, you are good to go.

[notanlines]

Inquiring minds (nosey old farts) want to know:
https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/types-licences/Pages/Towing-a-recreational-trailer.aspx

[rjrelander]

GVW on a trailer seems a little difficult to verify if you get pulled over. Wouldn't they have to take portable scale readings with and without the trailer attached to figure the hitch/pin weight to add to the axle weights? I suppose if they were using portable scales, they could detach and read it directly.

[EDIT] As much as I have a general dislike for any government requirements and regulations, I looked over the training material for their "house trailer endorsement" and it might not be a bad idea for it to be required reading for everyone. Saved a copy to my desktop.

[chuckster57]

GVW on a trailer seems a little difficult to verify if you get pulled over. Wouldn't they have to take portable scale readings with and without the trailer attached to figure the hitch/pin weight to add to the axle weights? I suppose if they were using portable scales, they could detach and read it directly.

[EDIT] As much as I have a general dislike for any government requirements and regulations, I looked over the training material for their "house trailer endorsement" and it might not be a bad idea for it to be required reading for everyone. Saved a copy to my desktop.


I bet they mean GVWR. That figure is on the data plate at the front DS of every trailer, so no scale needed.

[rjrelander]

I bet they mean GVWR. That figure is on the data plate at the front DS of every trailer, so no scale needed.
That's what I though too. Would be a lot easier to enforce. That link that Jim posted specifically calls out (and defines) trailer GVW though.

[Brentw]

No they do not mean gvw, it is actual weight. My opinion, and i have not heard of any enforcement, is that until you have run afoul of the law in some other manner, it would be then employed as another stick to beat you with.
Note
class 4 = first level commercial ( taxi/ bus driver)
Class 5= regular licence
Class 7=learners licience

How much weight can be towed with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence? A Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence allows you to tow a trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW). GVW refers to the combined weight of the towed vehicle (trailer) and its load. If a trailer weighs 4,000 kg when empty you may tow the trailer with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence. However, once you load the trailer with food, water and/or other items the GVW may exceed 4,600 kg.

[Carrottop]

Same in Manitoba except there is no endorsement you need a class 1,2 or 3 to pull a recreational trailer over 10,000 lbs and it is GVW as well not GVWR. license classes here are as follows.

Class 1: Semi-Truck Trailers (your standard big rig)
Class 2: Large Passenger and School Buses.
Class 3: Heavy Equipment Trucks and Large Trailer Towing.

Same as BC with a government insurance program in place you cannot insure your trailer unless you posses one of these licences.

[GMcKenzie]

Just a heads up to RVers in BC. If your RV is heavier than 4600kgs (10000lbs) you need a code 07 endorsement on your drivers license to legally tow and insure the RV in BC. Quite a bit involved to get this endorsement.
Log onto ICBC and put "towing an rv over 4600 kgs." for more info.

I'm glad you brought this up. I actually called ICBC on this a few weeks ago to see what's involved, and got really screwy answers.

From what the lady said, I'd have to go back to a "N" for some time. I really think she had something screwed up.

But the big question I have is with the road test. I have a trailer with 8200 lbs GVWR, but I could not use it for the road test. I'd have to be tested on a trailer over 10,120 lbs (4,600 kg, sorry I'm old and still think in terms of lbs).

What I'm looking at for a new trailer (Cougar 33SAB) would be 10,500 GVWR.

But, reading this

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Documents/licensing-recreational.pdf

"How much weight can be towed with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence?
A Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence allows you to tow a trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW). GVW refers to the combined weight of the towed vehicle (trailer) and its load. If a trailer weighs 4,000 kg when empty you may tow the trailer with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence. However, once you load the trailer with food, water and/or other items the GVW may exceed 4,600 kg. "

They are clearly going by GVW and not GVWR. So if I get a trailer that's 10,500 GVWR and don't load it quite full, it would be under the weight and I'd be fine.

I wonder if I would be able to license it or not.

I agree that the concept is a good one, but like most thing government, the implementation lacks common sense.

[66joej]

I'm glad you brought this up. I actually called ICBC on this a few weeks ago to see what's involved, and got really screwy answers.

From what the lady said, I'd have to go back to a "N" for some time. I really think she had something screwed up.

But the big question I have is with the road test. I have a trailer with 8200 lbs GVWR, but I could not use it for the road test. I'd have to be tested on a trailer over 10,120 lbs (4,600 kg, sorry I'm old and still think in terms of lbs).

What I'm looking at for a new trailer (Cougar 33SAB) would be 10,500 GVWR.

But, reading this

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Documents/licensing-recreational.pdf

"How much weight can be towed with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence?
A Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence allows you to tow a trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW). GVW refers to the combined weight of the towed vehicle (trailer) and its load. If a trailer weighs 4,000 kg when empty you may tow the trailer with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence. However, once you load the trailer with food, water and/or other items the GVW may exceed 4,600 kg. "

They are clearly going by GVW and not GVWR. So if I get a trailer that's 10,500 GVWR and don't load it quite full, it would be under the weight and I'd be fine.

I wonder if I would be able to license it or not.

I agree that the concept is a good one, but like most thing government, the implementation lacks common sense.

Government and common sense cannot be used in the same context. Meant to be funny not political.:nonono::lol:

[Stircrazy]

No they do not mean gvw, it is actual weight.

Actually they do mean max trailer weight, they use that so they don't have to have scales at road side inspection. if your max GVW of your trailer is over the weight then you need some one to go with you to your testing or your holidays who has the endorsement. I had a friend who went with me so I would be legal.

the road test is plain and simple easy if you have been driving a trailer for a bit, but the walkaround takes a bit more prep. they took commercial walkaround and applied it to a Rv so there is a lot of things you wont know about checking or such unless you take the time to study, oh and treat the examiner as if they are dense, say everything you are looking at and if you are checking the same things at several locations, you have to repeat it at each location instead of saying I am going to check this one every tire...…..


Steve

[Brentw]

Actually they do mean max trailer weight, they use that so they don't have to have scales at road side inspection. if your max GVW of your trailer is over the weight then you need some one to go with you to your testing or your holidays who has the endorsement. I had a friend who went with me so I would be legal.


Steve

Good info about the road test.
I agree that locally they may be using GVWR as an indication of GVW, ( after all how much weight can be shed from a 15k gvwr house trailer) but it is quite clear in the regs.
This is right out of ICBC FAQs

How much weight can be towed with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence? A Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence allows you to tow a trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW). GVW refers to the combined weight of the towed vehicle (trailer) and its load. If a trailer weighs 4,000 kg when empty you may tow the trailer with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence. However, once you load the trailer with food, water and/or other items the GVW may exceed 4,600

[Stircrazy]

Good info about the road test.
I agree that locally they may be using GVWR as an indication of GVW, ( after all how much weight can be shed from a 15k gvwr house trailer) but it is quite clear in the regs.
This is right out of ICBC FAQs

How much weight can be towed with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence? A Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence allows you to tow a trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW). GVW refers to the combined weight of the towed vehicle (trailer) and its load. If a trailer weighs 4,000 kg when empty you may tow the trailer with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence. However, once you load the trailer with food, water and/or other items the GVW may exceed 4,600

ya that what I read also, but here they seamed to be more interested with the max weight instead of the actual weight. and they said you had to have one that was over the weight to do the test. maybe that's just my branch going there own way.

Steve

[Brentw]

Ya, I imagine that's what they will use here, no govt scales in service for 100 kms.
No mater to me, just recieved my drivers medical, and assuming I pass ,will maintain class 1 for 5 more years.

[GMcKenzie]

So, I'm curious what the actual license process is. I've got an 8200 lb trailer, but would like to move up to one that is 10,500 (GVW). But I'd like to have the endorsement in place before laying out the cash. There seems to be no way to do this.

I called and asked, but I got real weird info from the phone call.

[idanby]

We got this right after we bought our trailer. BC drivers need the Code 7 endorsement on your class 5 to tow the trailer. You need the trailer to take the test. There is no N when updating your class 5. You pass or you fail. Pick up the booklet from the Access Centre or ICBC. You need to take the written test to get your learners license for the code 7. This allows you to pull the trailer if you have a person with appropriate licensing in the vehicle with you. Then, you make an appt to take the driving test with the trailer. The walk around is as important as any other part of the test. VERBALISE everything you do while you are doing the walk around. "I am opening the passenger door and checking to make sure the rear passenger seat belt works." If you don't verbalize it, it doesn't count as done and they nail you for it. It's totally anal. You go through the inside and outside of both truck and trailer. Checking vents, windows, lights, etc. It is the same walk around that the class 1 drivers test has for commercial drivers. This walk around can easily take up to 1/2 hour. Then you go for the driving test. Use your mirrors and turn signals (even in parking lots). Watch for stale yellows and school zones. They will take you through them. And you have to back the trailer up straight for it's full length. What annoys me is that the dealerships do not usually inform people that they need this endorsement. I see trailers for rent that do not tell you you need the endorsement. My friend drove his trailer for 8 years before I told him he needed the endorsement on his license. A week later he got pulled over on the highway because the cops WILL check your license plate and then the license of the driver to see if you are properly licensed. Also, believe that ICBC will not only nail you with a ticket for not being properly licensed, but in the event of an accident, they may not cover you.

[fulltilt]

Get the "heavy trailer endorsement", you can tow any trailer of any weight without airbrakes. The Rv licence limits you to RV's only.

[61Hawks]

This is not true at this time. The province or state that you drive into honors the class of licenses from your home.e state or province. In other words you do not have to change or amend your license when traveling.

[Ellen]

And whatever you do, don’t go over the posted speed limit. The posted limit is serious. Around here, California, many drivers, towing or not, seem to feel the posted limit is a suggestion. They ticket, even visitors, and at a fairly low number over the limit will impound your vehicle. Drive safely!

[notanlines]

Ellen, you had me until you got to the "at a fairly low number over the limit will impound your vehicle" part. I would need some back-up to cover that statement I believe. If I was speeding at 65 in a 55, and ticketed, give me any particular reason how California or any county would benefit by impounding my vehicle.

[GMcKenzie]

Curious if ICBC will insure a trailer with a GVW over 4600kg if the driver doesn't have the endorsement? Seems weird.

[sonofcy]

Curious if ICBC will insure a trailer with a GVW over 4600kg if the driver doesn't have the endorsement? Seems weird.

If you can't drive(tow) it then no need for insurance other than whatever you need for a parked trailer.

[GMcKenzie]

If you can't drive(tow) it then no need for insurance other than whatever you need for a parked trailer.

Yet people do it all the time. Lots of trailers over 10K where I doubt the owners have the endorsement. Why I'm curious how they get insured.

[sonofcy]

Yet people do it all the time. Lots of trailers over 10K where I doubt the owners have the endorsement. Why I'm curious how they get insured.

I just looked at my insurance certificate and yes, nowhere does it say one way or the other if you are licensed. I sent an email to my insurance agent to get an answer. I am sure you will get a ticket if a cop stops you though and if in an accident I would be surprised if you were covered. Similar to the 'clean hands' doctrine I would think.

[sonofcy]

I remember something about 150% with regards to GVW. I think if you say your GVW is 10,000 and when stopped they determine you are 14,999 then you are ok. My suspicion is that the officer will use GVWR off the vehicle sticker so I don't think this will work. I suspect the 150% is for big cargo trailers with massive payload ability and is used empty and full. Our clerks at ICBC in QB were clueless about the entire process, even asking me to drive my 42' 5er plus 20+ft F450 to the office and park on the street so they could inspect it.

[Ellen]

The very polite policewoman who pulled over my sister on Vancouver Island said if she had been going 2km faster the vehicle would have been impounded. She had sped up to pass a slower vehicle. Don’t think Hertz would have liked that! I guess they are serious about the speed limit and the inconvenience and expense of retrieving an impounded vehicle would make you think twice about exceeding the speed limit.

[notanlines]

Ellen, I don't believe you and I disagree on the premise of impoundment, just on the severity of the offense required to bring about the action.
From https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/road-safety-rules-and-consequences/vehicle-impoundment

"Police are required to impound vehicles driven by unlicensed, under-licensed, prohibited and suspended drivers; street racers and stunt drivers; excessive speeders; many alcohol affected drivers; certain motorcycle offenders; and other unsafe motor vehicle operators. The impoundment period depends on the nature of the infraction and may escalate for vehicle owners with prior impoundments."
The site infers that if a vehicle is traveling 60km over the limit the fine is $500 and possible impoundment because of 'excessive' speeding.
I've gone long on this subject, but one more thing: If I thought my F450 could tow my Suites (20K) 100MPH on I-40 with the 4:30 gears....well, the ticket AND the impoundment would give me 'a story to tell!':D

[Stircrazy]

Get the "heavy trailer endorsement", you can tow any trailer of any weight without airbrakes. The Rv licence limits you to RV's only.

yes but it is a commercial code and you have to maintain it, the house trailer code is a permanent code, once you get it, it never goes away. so if all you haul is an RV that is the way to go.

Steve

[GMcKenzie]

yes but it is a commercial code and you have to maintain it, the house trailer code is a permanent code, once you get it, it never goes away. so if all you haul is an RV that is the way to go.

Steve

Is there a link to show this? I've googled the Class 20 endorsement but don't see anything about it expiring.

Thanks.

[GMcKenzie]

To further add to the confusion, one site say you need a medical for a class 20, but the fact sheet linked on that very page says nothing about it.

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/types-licences/Pages/Licence-classes-and-types.aspx

Just more confusion.

[GMcKenzie]

Okay. I think I get it now.

Class 07 is not under the commercial driving rules, and class 20 is. So, while they kinda get lumped together in the ICBC brochures, they seem to be pretty different.

Thinking a class 7 is what I would need.

[sonofcy]

I just looked at my insurance certificate and yes, nowhere does it say one way or the other if you are licensed. I sent an email to my insurance agent to get an answer. I am sure you will get a ticket if a cop stops you though and if in an accident I would be surprised if you were covered. Similar to the 'clean hands' doctrine I would think.

I got word back from my insurance agent. Yes you can insure without the endorsement but you aren't really insured!

Here is what she said
"not having a driver’s license does not prevent you from getting insurance, however if you are driving without one your insurance would be void."

Remember of 10,000 employees at an insurance company 9,999 are looking for ways to NOT pay you and one old man with a pen is manually writing claim cheques.

[sonofcy]

I just looked at my insurance certificate and yes, nowhere does it say one way or the other if you are licensed. I sent an email to my insurance agent to get an answer. I am sure you will get a ticket if a cop stops you though and if in an accident I would be surprised if you were covered. Similar to the 'clean hands' doctrine I would think.

To further add to the confusion, one site say you need a medical for a class 20, but the fact sheet linked on that very page says nothing about it.

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/types-licences/Pages/Licence-classes-and-types.aspx

Just more confusion.

Depending on what meds you are on for any medical conditions may require you to have a medical. I have AFIB and on Xarelto so had to get one.

[sonofcy]

Okay. I think I get it now.

Class 07 is not under the commercial driving rules, and class 20 is. So, while they kinda get lumped together in the ICBC brochures, they seem to be pretty different.

Thinking a class 7 is what I would need.

You will still need to do the pre-trip which is clearly taken from a full Class 1. Many dumb things to check that nobody does in real life and do NOT forget to open the trailer and check INSIDE. I took 2 tries and my wife 3 tries and we used a pro instructor to train us. A real pain but it is better than Ontario where we came from that allows no testing and no rules enforcement. FYI I am accident free for over 50 years and ticket free for decades and wife is similar so it's not that we are bad drivers, it's just difficult at our age. They also do NOT allow you to use any modern driving tools like 360 cameras or cruise etc.

[sonofcy]

To further add to the confusion, one site say you need a medical for a class 20, but the fact sheet linked on that very page says nothing about it.

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/types-licences/Pages/Licence-classes-and-types.aspx

Just more confusion.

I found most of the staff at the ICBC offices to be totally clueless about RV's. They even put class 8 endorsement on my paperwork. They told me to park in front of office and when I explained my rig was bigger than the entire parking area they just went blank. I had to get medical because I have AFIB but take medication. The Dr laughed at the stupidity of that. I honestly don't remember if the medical exam was for the class 7 endorsement or for the basic drivers license.

[66 Vettster]

California went to the special licensing 4-5 years ago. They go by the GVWR on the sticker of your trailer. If your trailer shows 10,000 lbs to 14,999 you will need a endorsement on your license. If it shows over 15,000 lbs you will need a Non Commercial license. If you have a Commercial license you are okay. They require a medical statement saying that you are in good health. When I went down to take the written test I was also required to take my regular license test and since I have a endorsement for motorcycle I had to take that test. After that I set up appointment for the Inspection and the drivers test. The inspection is really important. All of this information is in the California DMV web site. I was out on the drivers test for over a hour. I was worried that if I was stopped for any reason that if I am not licensed properly that they could make you park your rig. That could turn into a disaster especially if you are a long ways from home.

Jim Bonhote
2014 3582RL, 2015 Ford F-350 Platinum

[Stircrazy]

Is there a link to show this? I've googled the Class 20 endorsement but don't see anything about it expiring.

Thanks.

no, that's what the girls told me when I asked about which one I should do. they said the class 20 is a commercial version and you have to maintain it like a commercial licence. see below

Steve

[Stircrazy]

To further add to the confusion, one site say you need a medical for a class 20, but the fact sheet linked on that very page says nothing about it.

https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/types-licences/Pages/Licence-classes-and-types.aspx

Just more confusion.

yup that's it, you need to keep doing the medical every so often (same as class 1 or 3) to maintain it as it is the commercial version of the heavy tow.

Steve

[GMcKenzie]

News story on this.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5427413/what-you-need-to-know-if-youre-towing-a-trailer-this-summer/?utm_source=Other&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

[66joej]

News story on this.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5427413/what-you-need-to-know-if-youre-towing-a-trailer-this-summer/?utm_source=Other&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

Around this part of BC that 4600 kg limit puts about half or more of the drivers in the not insured category if they don't have the house trailer endorsement. I would bet very few drivers knew about this required licence endorsement. Got to love our ICBC (Insurance Corporation of British Columbia).:nonono:

[GMcKenzie]

Around this part of BC that 4600 kg limit puts about half or more of the drivers in the not insured category if they don't have the house trailer endorsement. I would bet very few drivers knew about this required licence endorsement. Got to love our ICBC (Insurance Corporation of British Columbia).:nonono:

I agree with the family's comments that it should have been brought up by the person who did the licensing. I really don't know why they allow you to insure it if you can't tow it.

[Crazymoose_hound]

The only reason I knew about this Class 7 endorsement was during my drivers licence renewal process, the MV branch employee asked me if I wanted to get this endorsement ( I also was giving up my Class 3 endorsement ). At the time, I had a TT that weighed @ 7000 lbs. So, just in case, I took the offer.... Now pulling a 10,500 lb. 5th Wheel.... Phew !

[Stircrazy]

News story on this.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5427413/what-you-need-to-know-if-youre-towing-a-trailer-this-summer/?utm_source=Other&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

that's why the wife was asking if I had an endorsement
on my licence yesterday


Steve

[66joej]

Not to upset any British Columbians but I just talked to our local ICBC agent in Invermere and was told they are booking road tests into late Sept. I asked what are people with RVs over 4600 kgs to do in the meantime. The agent told me their vehicle insurance is not valid until driver's licence is upgraded with the house trailer endorsement so she advised not to use the RV.:facepalm:
Just food for thought. BEWARE!

[travelin texans]

Not to upset any British Columbians but I just talked to our local ICBC agent in Invermere and was told they are booking road tests into late Sept. I asked what are people with RVs over 4600 kgs to do in the meantime. The agent told me their vehicle insurance is not valid until driver's licence is upgraded with the house trailer endorsement so she advised not to use the RV.:facepalm:
Just food for thought. BEWARE!

Perfect timing!!
Now smack dab in the middle of camping season their best recommendation is park it til you're legal.
Ah! Governments hard at work!!!

[sonofcy]

Not to upset any British Columbians but I just talked to our local ICBC agent in Invermere and was told they are booking road tests into late Sept. I asked what are people with RVs over 4600 kgs to do in the meantime. The agent told me their vehicle insurance is not valid until driver's licence is upgraded with the house trailer endorsement so she advised not to use the RV.:facepalm:
Just food for thought. BEWARE!
Make sure you are asking about the RV (endorsement 7) road tests. I am fairly certain at least where I am (Nanaimo) it was a seperate phone # and schedule. If you use (HIGHLY recommend) a driving instructor like Phil Dutton at Parkway Driving Academy I think that gets you an earlier booking. Be aware it took me two tries and the wife 3 tries. Also be aware you have to check inside the RV. It's a Class 1 inspection so it's lengthy and my memory is bad. If they remove the contact info above re the driving instructor PM me for phone # at least in the mid island area. Elsewhere, ask at ICBC or look up 18 wheel instructors.

[sonofcy]

Perfect timing!!
Now smack dab in the middle of camping season their best recommendation is park it til you're legal.
Ah! Governments hard at work!!!
So you think they should just keep driving illegally? What do you think happens if you are not legally licensed and kill someone especially after you have been informed on this forum? May I suggest at least criminal negligence and maybe even manslaughter. When you are piloting upwards of 15 tons you have serious responsibilities. I moved here from Ontario where they let any fool drive one of these and it took me all of 5 minutes to discover I needed a special endorsement (7) to drive here. Because of the timing I had to pay a driver to move my RV and to take me to the road test. That's what responsible folks do. They are not going to let you jump the line just because you didn't do your homework. A major legal concept is that ignorance is not a defence, it's your responsibility to know what laws apply to you in any given situation. That is how our legal system works for obvious reasons.

[travelin texans]

So you think they should just keep driving illegally? What do you think happens if you are not legally licensed and kill someone especially after you have been informed on this forum? May I suggest at least criminal negligence and maybe even manslaughter. When you are piloting upwards of 15 tons you have serious responsibilities. I moved here from Ontario where they let any fool drive one of these and it took me all of 5 minutes to discover I needed a special endorsement (7) to drive here. Because of the timing I had to pay a driver to move my RV and to take me to the road test. That's what responsible folks do. They are not going to let you jump the line just because you didn't do your homework. A major legal concept is that ignorance is not a defence, it's your responsibility to know what laws apply to you in any given situation. That is how our legal system works for obvious reasons.

NEVER said ANYTHING even remotely suggesting that ANYONE drive illegally!!
Simply that the poor timing is perfect to ruin summer camping!!!
Read more closely then keep your rant to yourself!!!!!

[GMcKenzie]

NEVER said ANYTHING even remotely suggesting that ANYONE drive illegally!!
Simply that the poor timing is perfect to ruin summer camping!!!
Read more closely then keep your rant to yourself!!!!!

This is not a new law in any respect. The only thing that has happened recently is the news story and a little more visibility into the law.

There is no timing issue here.

[sonofcy]

NEVER said ANYTHING even remotely suggesting that ANYONE drive illegally!!
Simply that the poor timing is perfect to ruin summer camping!!!
Read more closely then keep your rant to yourself!!!!!

The implication I took from 'park it til you're legal' is that if you don't park it so you can travel then you are illegal. Maybe my years of training and experience critiquing technical documents gives me a slightly sharper view of the written word. I accept you intended no harm, but I bet more than a few absolutely want to just ignore the law so my message is for them then.

The other thing you are implying is that this is a 'timing' issue. This has been the law for many years and the only reason this thread exists is that on a slow news day somebody resurrected this old story. It's well documented on the ICBC website and in the brochure you can pick up at the ICBC offices.

Where the government messed up is asking us to take a class 1 vehicle inspection test. If you don't get an instructor you have no chance at passing. The driving test isn't that bad though, just the pre-trip.

[66joej]

The implication I took from 'park it til you're legal' is that if you don't park it so you can travel then you are illegal. Maybe my years of training and experience critiquing technical documents gives me a slightly sharper view of the written word. I accept you intended no harm, but I bet more than a few absolutely want to just ignore the law so my message is for them then.

The other thing you are implying is that this is a 'timing' issue. This has been the law for many years and the only reason this thread exists is that on a slow news day somebody resurrected this old story. It's well documented on the ICBC website and in the brochure you can pick up at the ICBC offices.

Where the government messed up is asking us to take a class 1 vehicle inspection test. If you don't get an instructor you have no chance at passing. The driving test isn't that bad though, just the pre-trip.

I have lived in BC for 15 years off and on since 1995 (4 times). I don't believe I have ever seen or been advised of this class 7 endorsement. Betting I am not the first to have never heard of this law. I have had RVs throughout that time.
Coming from Ontario and Alberta you would think one would be advised of this unique endorsement when getting a drivers licence and registering for ICBC insurance for truck and RV. JMO

[GMcKenzie]

I have lived in BC for 15 years off and on since 1995 (4 times). I don't believe I have ever seen or been advised of this class 7 endorsement. Betting I am not the first to have never heard of this law. I have had RVs throughout that time.
Coming from Ontario and Alberta you would think one would be advised of this unique endorsement when getting a drivers licence and registering for ICBC insurance for truck and RV. JMO

I just found out about it this year and have been in BC for 40+ years, towing for around 30 of those. Was kicking tires at nicer units and one dealer mentioned it, as the one we were looking at was under the weight limit and didn't need the endorsement. Not sure he would have mentioned it if the trailer was over.

Current trailer at 8200 lbs is my heaviest so far, so it's not been an issue for me up to now.

[sonofcy]

I have lived in BC for 15 years off and on since 1995 (4 times). I don't believe I have ever seen or been advised of this class 7 endorsement. Betting I am not the first to have never heard of this law. I have had RVs throughout that time.
Coming from Ontario and Alberta you would think one would be advised of this unique endorsement when getting a drivers licence and registering for ICBC insurance for truck and RV. JMO
In Ontario they do NOT enforce the law (special class 1 over 10,000 lbs). I went to the cop shop and asked. The reason is a hand shake deal to not enforce in order to not kill the RV industry. Like I said in another post, in Canada ignorance of the law is not an excuse. It's up to each of us to know or hire a lawyer. I find the attitude by some here to be frightening, you actually think you can drive (and towing is still driving) anything with just one license class? Coming from another province I did have the advantage of being forced to look up the licensing requirements and saw that the trailer needed the endorsement as well. Just don't have an accident, my insurance agent confirmed that without the endorsement you are uninsured! That's another of those things we are all supposed to know, the clean hands doctrine.

[sonofcy]

I just found out about it this year and have been in BC for 40+ years, towing for around 30 of those. Was kicking tires at nicer units and one dealer mentioned it, as the one we were looking at was under the weight limit and didn't need the endorsement. Not sure he would have mentioned it if the trailer was over.

Current trailer at 8200 lbs is my heaviest so far, so it's not been an issue for me up to now.
I would bet quite a bit he would not have mentioned that you needed it for a heavy trailer.

[sonofcy]

I just got informed by my insurance agent that I am only allowed to be out of province for 5 months with my trailer. Now that we are allowed 7 months out of province if the 7th month is a vacation only, not business, that makes no sense. Check your insurance!

[sonofcy]

I just found out about it this year and have been in BC for 40+ years, towing for around 30 of those. Was kicking tires at nicer units and one dealer mentioned it, as the one we were looking at was under the weight limit and didn't need the endorsement. Not sure he would have mentioned it if the trailer was over.

Current trailer at 8200 lbs is my heaviest so far, so it's not been an issue for me up to now.
I just sent an email to the snowbirds organization to see if they can take on this issue. They got us our 7th month out of province so maybe they can 'fix' this endorsement 7 issue as well.
Just to summarize, when getting my license and insurance in the same office of ICBC nobody mentioned the endorsement but lucky for me the booklet about driving in BC they gave me contained the information.

[GMcKenzie]

I just sent an email to the snowbirds organization to see if they can take on this issue. They got us our 7th month out of province so maybe they can 'fix' this endorsement 7 issue as well.
Just to summarize, when getting my license and insurance in the same office of ICBC nobody mentioned the endorsement but lucky for me the booklet about driving in BC they gave me contained the information.

I'd like to see it bumped up a little, to 5,000kg (11,000 lbs) just because I see an awful lots of trailers at the 10,500 mark where I don't think the endorsement is needed. They are no more complex to pull than what I have. Plus the test doesn't need to mirror a commercial test.

And make it policy that you can't insure without being informed.

[sonofcy]

I don't think weight equates to complexity, backing up for instance has nothing to do with that. The pre-trip however does need to be changed. It is obvious they simply copied the class 1. I have NEVER seen another camper do 10% of that when leaving camp. I think all of us do the obvious but I do agree that we should perhaps do a little more.

[Snoking]

This is pretty funny, they say to get your rig weighed ready to tow and camp. And then this:

How to check your trailer's weight?
Take your trailer to a weigh scale when it's fully loaded. Fill up the water and propane tanks as you would when travelling and include the gear you plan to carry. Make sure the driver has the correct licence class or endorsements on their licence to drive to the weigh scale.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[travelin texans]

This is pretty funny, they say to get your rig weighed ready to tow and camp. And then this:

How to check your trailer's weight?
Take your trailer to a weigh scale when it's fully loaded. Fill up the water and propane tanks as you would when travelling and include the gear you plan to carry. Make sure the driver has the correct licence class or endorsements on their licence to drive to the weigh scale.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!

[Snoking]

Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!

What the web site says:

"Recreational trailers weighing up to 4,600 kg GVW
You can use a regular driver's licence to tow a fully-loaded recreational trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW) with a two axle vehicle.

If your fully-loaded recreational trailer weighs over 4,600 kg GVW, you need to upgrade your driver’s licence."

I see nothing here about the manufactures GVWR(Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). GVW is actual weight for a scale.

[sonofcy]

There is no GVW, the factory sticker is GVWR which is the maximum. Your actual otherwise known as GVW can change over time. The ICBC folks I dealt with had no clue about trailers, the different weights or even much common sense. They even wanted me to park my F450 while attached to my 41’ Montana in front of the ICBC office with 3 parking spots.

[Snoking]

There is no GVW, the factory sticker is GVWR which is the maximum. Your actual otherwise known as GVW can change over time. The ICBC folks I dealt with had no clue about trailers, the different weights or even much common sense. They even wanted me to park my F450 while attached to my 41’ Montana in front of the ICBC office with 3 parking spots.

So why are they telling people to weigh their rigs. If the law wanted to go by the GVWR, would they have not stated that instead of GVW? GVW could be lower or more than the manufactures GVWR.

BTW BC seems to be one of vary few North American jurisdictions that uses the manufactures GVWR for any kind of enforcement. And that is in regards to Tow Vehicle loading.

Some states like Washington license pickups for tonnage and Washington will and does license above the manufactures GVWR. They take the tare weight of the vehicle times 1.5 and then round up to the next highest even K. So our 2001.5 RAM with 8800 GVWR was licensed to 12K. Are 2015 RAM is also licensed to 12K and for a bit more per year, I could up that to 14K.

[sonofcy]

So why are they telling people to weigh their rigs. If the law wanted to go by the GVWR, would they have not stated that instead of GVW? GVW could be lower or more than the manufactures GVWR.

BTW BC seems to be one of vary few North American jurisdictions that uses the manufactures GVWR for any kind of enforcement. And that is in regards to Tow Vehicle loading.

Some states like Washington license pickups for tonnage and Washington will and does license above the manufactures GVWR. They take the tare weight of the vehicle times 1.5 and then round up to the next highest even K. So our 2001.5 RAM with 8800 GVWR was licensed to 12K. Are 2015 RAM is also licensed to 12K and for a bit more per year, I could up that to 14K.
GVWR is the maximum a vehicle can weigh as decided by the engineers and the government. I think the 12K you are mentioning is the GCWR when towing. It may also be a number they are using to calculate some kind of tax but it is most definitely not an increase in your GVWR. BC uses the 150% rule as well, my F450 is as it sits right now is about 10,000lbs and it's listed on the licensing papers as 10,000 x wt and 15,000 y wt. x and y are something like GVW and Net, I don't have the papers handy to be certain. That does NOT mean I can exceed the GVWR. Things like GVWR and GCWR, and GAWR are all engineering limits, not political cash grab made up numbers.

Here is the definition

How to Increase Your Truck's GVWR. Unless you're the proprietor of a certified coach builder, legally speaking there's no way to increase your truck's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). This rating comes from the vehicle manufacturer.

It is possible that a US police officer can stop you and compare your license to the posted GVWR or he might make you get weighed. Different jurisdictions have different rules. If you want to avoid the hassles, just follow the rules, get the proper license, and don't overload.

[sonofcy]

This is pretty funny, they say to get your rig weighed ready to tow and camp. And then this:

How to check your trailer's weight?
Take your trailer to a weigh scale when it's fully loaded. Fill up the water and propane tanks as you would when travelling and include the gear you plan to carry. Make sure the driver has the correct licence class or endorsements on their licence to drive to the weigh scale.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
After you pass the written test you can drive with another person who has a class 5 or better license and endorsement 7 or better. Remember also you have the 150% rule. Whatever is used for what they call GVW is multiplied by 150% and that is the max unless of course it is more than GVWR which is the most you can weigh but the ICBC folks don't seem to know that and GVWR is not addressed in the publications or web that I have seen. I am taxed at roughly 10,000 lbs but allowed to weigh as much as 15,000. I can not weigh more than 14,000 lbs without being illegal however. A classic case of one government department not consulting with another. Now I am wondering what the license fee/tax is based on, I bet it's the phony 15,000. I think I need to make some phone calls.

[sonofcy]

After you pass the written test you can drive with another person who has a class 5 or better license and endorsement 7 or better. Remember also you have the 150% rule. Whatever is used for what they call GVW is multiplied by 150% and that is the max unless of course it is more than GVWR which is the most you can weigh but the ICBC folks don't seem to know that and GVWR is not addressed in the publications or web that I have seen. I am taxed at roughly 10,000 lbs but allowed to weigh as much as 15,000. I can not weigh more than 14,000 lbs without being illegal however. A classic case of one government department not consulting with another. Now I am wondering what the license fee/tax is based on, I bet it's the phony 15,000. I think I need to make some phone calls.
I just got off the phone with my insurance agent and surprise surprise, yes the fees are based on the 150% number.

[sonofcy]

For those in BC and I suspect it is the same for all of Canada and the USA. Check out all of the following but especially the part about GVW and GVWR. Yes you can get your truck licensed (and pay for it) for more than your GVWR but you will still get ticketed if you are weighed over GVWR. I am going to see what I can do to get my truck's license set to it's GVWR of 14,000 pounds which is only 140% of it's day to day GVW of about 9,965 lbs as measured at the dump yard. Here is the link to the pdf
https://www.cvse.ca/references_publications/pdf/MV3231(082003)GVWR.pdf

[sonofcy]

Here is some more interesting reading for BC citizens especially the DISCUSSION section
https://www.drivesmartbc.ca/miscellaneous/topic/alphabet-soup-gvw-gcwr-gawr-and-more

[Snoking]

GVWR is the maximum a vehicle can weigh as decided by the engineers and the government. I think the 12K you are mentioning is the GCWR when towing. It may also be a number they are using to calculate some kind of tax but it is most definitely not an increase in your GVWR. BC uses the 150% rule as well, my F450 is as it sits right now is about 10,000lbs and it's listed on the licensing papers as 10,000 x wt and 15,000 y wt. x and y are something like GVW and Net, I don't have the papers handy to be certain. That does NOT mean I can exceed the GVWR. Things like GVWR and GCWR, and GAWR are all engineering limits, not political cash grab made up numbers.

Here is the definition

How to Increase Your Truck's GVWR. Unless you're the proprietor of a certified coach builder, legally speaking there's no way to increase your truck's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). This rating comes from the vehicle manufacturer.

It is possible that a US police officer can stop you and compare your license to the posted GVWR or he might make you get weighed. Different jurisdictions have different rules. If you want to avoid the hassles, just follow the rules, get the proper license, and don't overload.

In the US the government is not involved in GVWR other that the max amount of for Class 1, 2, 3 4 etc trucks. The 12K is the licensed load for the truck for the state and is fee based on amount of max load and is NOT the GCWR, which again is a manufactures number, and not a regulatory number. The 2001.5 had a 20K GCWR, and the 2015 has a 25,300 GCWR.

Again in the US, and Canada follows them, the Federal Bridge Weight regulations are what is enforced at weight stations. No pickup is going to violate these weights.

Here is some information directed to RVers. https://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20577181.cfm

BC seems to be an outlier as we continue to hear issues that are not noted in other jurisdictions.

[GMcKenzie]

Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!

The ICBC publications make it sound like actual weight matters, not the GVW.

From here https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Documents/licensing-recreational.pdf

"A Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence allows you to tow a trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW). GVW refers to the combined weight of the towed vehicle (trailer) and its load. If a trailer weighs 4,000 kg when empty you may tow the trailer with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence. However, once you load the trailer with food, water and/or other items the GVW may exceed 4,600 kg."

Having said that, I would not rely on not being at my GVW if there was an issue where I needed insurance and would go by the rated max, and not what it actually weighs.

[sonofcy]

Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!
It's really important to use the correct terminology because the ICBC use GVW in a totally different manner.
What you are calling GVW in your post is actually GVWR, GVW is what the vehicle weighs at this moment and the factory has no knowledge of that since you put a toolbox in the back and so on. The GVWR is the max a truck can weigh as determined by engineering practices and the relevant authorities. The ICBC defines GVW as 150% of the actual weight which we call GVW. Confused? I have been going back and forth for the last two days with the ICBC folks and have decided to leave sleeping dogs lie. They are so messed up it's unbelievable. I won't post any of it here because of potential unwanted repercussions. Just to give you a hint of how bad this is, the GVW on my truck does NOT take into account my 16,705lb trailer!!! You read the documentation and tell me if they know what they are doing. If you want the doc msg me.

[GMcKenzie]

It's really important to use the correct terminology because the ICBC use GVW in a totally different manner.
What you are calling GVW in your post is actually GVWR, GVW is what the vehicle weighs at this moment and the factory has no knowledge of that since you put a toolbox in the back and so on. The GVWR is the max a truck can weigh as determined by engineering practices and the relevant authorities. The ICBC defines GVW as 150% of the actual weight which we call GVW. Confused? I have been going back and forth for the last two days with the ICBC folks and have decided to leave sleeping dogs lie. They are so messed up it's unbelievable. I won't post any of it here because of potential unwanted repercussions. Just to give you a hint of how bad this is, the GVW on my truck does NOT take into account my 16,705lb trailer!!! You read the documentation and tell me if they know what they are doing. If you want the doc msg me.

It seems to me the trailer weight is not part of the GVWR, but comes under the GCVWR. The truck GVW would include the pin/tongue weight of the trailer though.

[sonofcy]

It seems to me the trailer weight is not part of the GVWR, but comes under the GCVWR. The truck GVW would include the pin/tongue weight of the trailer though.

Damn, I also got this wrong. Now corrected

Bottom line all they want is the payload number but don't know enough to take it from the yellow sticker so they force you into giving a best guess unloaded wt that they then multiply by 1.5 and tax you on that.

Correct, GCWR is the truck GVWR + the trailer GVWR.

[sonofcy]

Sorry guys, I screwed this up. I have corrected the post.

Doh, now I get it. In simple terms it's truck payload. There choice of the initials GVW is unfortunate since it is almost the reverse of what the rest of the world uses. The 2nd highlight above is the key, it says you only include the tongue weight (they do not say pin but do say fifth wheel). The first highlight in my opinion contradicts but hey, it's government. They could have just said payload.

Just to complete the thought.

Payload = GVWR - GVW NOT the ICBC GVW, but the real world GVW. GVW in the real world is called dry weight for a trailer, curb weight for a truck and also used to specify what the truck normally weighs in day to day operation. A recent post showed a new chevy truck with a plaque on it that stated the curb wt, payload GVWR, GCWR, and more. Look for it under the thread 'Chevy towing capacity'

[Snoking]

People are still have issue with the terms.

GVW is scaled weight of the TV or trailer loaded.
CGWR is the manufactures rating for the combined TV and trailer.

Will add another term for you.

What is the tare weight?
Tare weight /ˈtɛər/, sometimes called unladen weight, is the weight of an empty vehicle or container. By subtracting it from the gross weight (laden weight), the weight of the goods carried (the net weight) may be determined.

[sonofcy]

People are still have issue with the terms.

GVW is scaled weight of the TV or trailer loaded.
CGVWR is the manufactures rating for the combined TV and trailer.

Will add another term for you.

What is the tare weight?
Tare weight /ˈtɛər/, sometimes called unladen weight, is the weight of an empty vehicle or container. By subtracting it from the gross weight (laden weight), the weight of the goods carried (the net weight) may be determined.
True (other than the GCWR spelling) From my trucks online brochure - 41,800 lbs. max. Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)
The ICBC folks here have co opted the GVW term. They are using that acronym for what is actually payload. What you and I call GVW they call net weight.
What I get on google is GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time and is how I understand it too. Because of the incorrect way they do it I am paying a higher license fee so I will continue to beat on them.

[Stircrazy]

Where the government messed up is asking us to take a class 1 vehicle inspection test. If you don't get an instructor you have no chance at passing. The driving test isn't that bad though, just the pre-trip.

that's not true, yes it is a class 1 inspection and yes there are some curve balls. the list of everything you have to check is in the book, if not I could scan my test page, if I can find it.

the biggest thing is that you have to do it by the book, I did fail the first one but it wasn't because I didn't know what to check, it was because I assumed that when I checked my first tire and rattled off what all I was looking at/for, then commented that I would be checking every tire for this that that would be ok.. apparently not you have to say the whole spiel at every tire :facepalm: also if you don't have an oil pressure gauge you still have to say I am checking my oil pressure :rolleyes:

you only have 25 min to do the test and when I went for my second one 5 days later I made sure to waist every 25 min of there time. :D

but yes I do know some people who have paid a sum of money to a commercial instructor to teach them and they have had mixed results, just take it seriously and stud/ask questions and you'll be fine.

Steve

[sonofcy]

that's not true, yes it is a class 1 inspection and yes there are some curve balls. the list of everything you have to check is in the book, if not I could scan my test page, if I can find it.

the biggest thing is that you have to do it by the book, I did fail the first one but it wasn't because I didn't know what to check, it was because I assumed that when I checked my first tire and rattled off what all I was looking at/for, then commented that I would be checking every tire for this that that would be ok.. apparently not you have to say the whole spiel at every tire :facepalm: also if you don't have an oil pressure gauge you still have to say I am checking my oil pressure :rolleyes:

you only have 25 min to do the test and when I went for my second one 5 days later I made sure to waist every 25 min of there time. :D

but yes I do know some people who have paid a sum of money to a commercial instructor to teach them and they have had mixed results, just take it seriously and stud/ask questions and you'll be fine.

Steve
I had a longert reply but the system wiped it out. Short answer is.
You must have got the easy tester first try, we kept getting the hard tester, once we got the easy tester we passed.
What is the point of going inside the RV to turn off the gas at the stove if it's already off at the tank. This is a rather obvious example of a bureaucrat making up the test because they have never owned or probably even been in an RV.
What is the point of pretending to check your tires and wheels if they don't at least have you produce your torque wrench and explain how to use it?
If they are concerned about safety then making TPMS mandatory on all 8-12 tires would be a good start. I frankly don't give a damn if you have an accident because you lost a tire at 100KPH, I do care if you do that in front of me however.
The pre-trip is a memory test. I have memory issues which is why I use a checklist, but they will not allow me to use a checklist or any of the modern tools on and in my truck. If you have ever seen anybody in a campground let alone a fuel stop doing a full pre-trip then I would be very surprised. I also have not noticed any truckers doing much more than checking tires and occasionally connections. When is the last time a big truck which has 2 batteries and alternators like mine has had a safety incident due to not checking the batteries and/or alternators? I have 10 TPMS sensors with pressure and temperature reporting but the one thing I always do at a stop is get out my $30 infrared detector and check my tires, brakes, and bearing hub temperatures because not doing so could lead to the death of me, my wife, and my dog. I do NOT pull my emergency brake activator because as an electrician I know that doing that leads to possible earlier failure of the contacts. It is obvious from the responses on this forum that a lot/many of BC residents are not properly licensed and subsequently not insured. This concerns me because if they have an accident with me then I would have to sue them instead of their insurance company. One fellow even reported that as a 40 year BC resident, 30 years towing heavy he has NEVER heard of the need of an endorsement 7. Strange how I as a new resident (from a province with NO licensing requirements) not only found the information on my own but was properly insured with a couple of weeks of getting here. It's easily found on both the web and the brochure in every ICBC office. The staff at at least one of those ICBC offices are clueless however. They wanted to see my RV so they asked if I could pull it in front of their office. This was on main street with cars parked on both sides. I drive an F450 towing a 40'9" fifth wheel but she was clueless as to why I couldn't just park it in one of the 3 parking spaces even though I might have to sit on the street for anywhere up to an hour waiting for enough spaces to open up in a row to park 60 odd feet of rig. BTW, they marked my paperwork as needing an endorsement 8! I guess that means I can tow a heavy RV + 1. The pre-trip is just a standard government tax grab.

[Stircrazy]

You must have got the easy tester first try, we kept getting the hard tester, once we got the easy tester we passed.


I guess that means I can tow a heavy RV + 1. The pre-trip is just a standard government tax grab.

nope I had the hard one first tray, that is why I had to do a second. on the second I had the same one but I made sure I knew everything on there marking sheet like the back of my hand and then some extras.

I also do agree that it is nothing but a combination of a tax grab, by failing you they can charge an extra 15 bucks for the retest, and government laziness. there is no reason some one couldn't have come up with a more appropriate walk around in about 30 min instead of just crossing over a commercial one.

this does seam to come up in the news stream about every 5 years or so. I have only lived in BC for 29 years and I knew about this requirement about 20 years ago, just never applied to me until 3 years ago, and I wasn't quite sure where the cut off was.

Steve