Why you didn't buy enough truck

[linux3]

We belong to a fair size activity group. OK, OK older activity group.
Fads come and go and it appears the latest fad is RV'ing.
We got our TT in '16 and a few others did and we have been having a few group outings like to Maine and VA and such. More people are buying TT's and all too often they just will not listen to advice.

Case in point. Older Silverado with the 4.8L V8 nothing special low end Work Truck. Owner buys a 27.5' TT with a dry weight of 7k'ish. I tried (we actually) to talk him out of it but the salesman said "No Problem". Owner says "Hey, I have this massive V8.

I blame Honda and Hyundai and such. Little 1.5L turbo engines and "performance" 2.0L has convinced these people that a 4.8L V8 can tow the world.
A pickup is HUGE I must be able to pull anything. Can it carry anything. Sigh.

BTW, above owner has added leaves to the springs and air bags and doesn't like trips and will not talk to some of us. I personally would NEVER say I told you so.

[FlyingAroundRV]

And some of these people come on the forums here seeking affirmation that their undersized truck " will be OK" towing their TT or 5er. They get disappointed with the responses here too.
Seems the best we can hope for is to not be near these people when it goes pear shaped out on the highway.

[Laredo Tugger]

BTW, above owner has added leaves to the springs and air bags and doesn't like trips and will not talk to some of us. I personally would NEVER say I told you so.

You don't have to say anything. He got the "I told you so" message loud and clear. That explains why he is trying to "fix" the problem with aftermarket suspension parts and has gone silent.
Maybe transmission parts scattered in the road behind his stalled TV will be a good hint,then maybe not. Some folks just don't get it.
RMc

[Laredo Tugger]

And some of these people come on the forums here seeking affirmation that their undersized truck " will be OK" towing their TT or 5er. They get disappointed with the responses here too.
Seems the best we can hope for is to not be near these people when it goes pear shaped out on the highway.

Yep, that was me. After understanding what was wrong with my combo, I made it right. Wasn't easy (financially or otherwise) but was necessary. And I feel better about the safety and proper use of the equipment.
RMc

[Firewall]

Certainly agree that many RV's stress the limits of trucks and some are not aware of the issues they could face. But I see as many if not more passenger cars on their way to a vacation at the beach with a family of six packed into a small SUV with the suit cases in the back, Thule on the roof, three or four bikes on the back, a cooler on the front bumper and a utility trailer in tow! Probably more "pin weight" than my 5th wheel lol.

[Blackrock]

Right now everyone is Gaga over the Ford F150 as the ideal tow vehicle. Check out this story and you can see where having the power to tow the load does not mean that the truck has the drivetrain capable of doing the job.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-trucks/watch-trailer-hauling-ford-f-150-break-spectacularly-in-drag-race/ar-AAB2mDD?ocid=spartandhp

[yesiamapirate]

I am in the " just barely enough truck" club. To answer your question: I had my truck first then bought the trailer. I fell in love with this particular trailer, even though it is bigger than I had planned.....It falls within specs of all weights so all is well. We have pulled it on several trips now, wind and rain included. That said, my next truck will be upgraded in case we decided to go bigger yet on the trailer.

[Snoking]

We are now over trucked after roofing our 39' 5th at our summer RV park. And buying a little commuter bumper pull. Chris

[Ken / Claudia]

I keep saying I am going to down size to a smaller truck ever since I had a my 1st 3/4 ton. Well it happened I got a 02 ranger for the daily driver until that wore out. Tow vehicles, 1 ton officially on on 3rd. Current truck will pull the TT for the 1st time this week, hope it is up to the task. If not I have a trailblazer I can try.

[xrated]

As most of you know, I recently bought another brand and I am a member there also, plus three of the facebook pages pertaining to the brand, model and exact model number that I have. If you think it's BAD here, to use an old phrase....."You ain't seen nothin yet". At least on here, folks will come on and ask opinions about their truck/trailer combo and many times, after many of us offer up why it is not adequate (or it may be), they get the message and proceed to do what they can to rectify their under sized tow vehicle. On the facebook pages,the ones that inquire, are sometimes open to listening about why their combo is undersized. But just as sure as a few of us (the dreaded weight police) come along and offer up the facts of why they are overloaded, some meat stick (usually a bunch of meat sticks), will post right up behind you and tell them that they need to ignore the weight police because according to them, you need a Dually to pull a pop up camper. One guy I recently tried to set straight has looked at the payload numbers, based on the "maximum towing capacity" for that one ton truck. I tried to explain it was not the correct number to use, that he needed to look on the door sticker for the number for HIS truck....not an ad or brochure. He basically told me I didn't have a clue and that was wrong. Well, I added in some more less than kind remarks and just had to let it go. I swear, there is a metric sh!t ton of stupid over there.....but I keep trying. :banghead: :banghead:

[sourdough]

Certainly agree that many RV's stress the limits of trucks and some are not aware of the issues they could face. But I see as many if not more passenger cars on their way to a vacation at the beach with a family of six packed into a small SUV with the suit cases in the back, Thule on the roof, three or four bikes on the back, a cooler on the front bumper and a utility trailer in tow! Probably more "pin weight" than my 5th wheel lol.

The thing about that little SUV is that when it decides to go "sideways" there's not a 10-15,000lb. projectile being loosed behind it.

[cookinwitdiesel]

The thing about that little SUV is that when it decides to go "sideways" there's not a 10-15,000lb. projectile being loosed behind it.

Very valid. After learning a ton here (no pun intended) I went and checked the door sticker on my Mazda CX-9 and was pleased to see it had like 1200# payload. That was actually surprisingly good and definitely not something I have ever come close to pushing.

[Ken / Claudia]

What I read that some state when replying to will my truck tow my trailer that is useless to everyone. "I do it and it is FINE." What does that mean and what is it based on, no one ever explains how they come up with FINE and or defines FINE. Fine can be subject to each and everyone's opinion based on vehicles and experience. If fine means travel in the slow lane due to TV lacks power to pass, trailer sways as trucks pass, will not travel when windy, goes through TV brakes like gas in it's tanks, rear of TV is squatting, rear tires on TV nearly on sidewalls and over any of the listed truck weights is that fine.

[jsb5717]

I think when you're pulling with a TV that is less than it should be that FINE means "I haven't gotten in an accident yet". Some may be FINE there entire towing career. The danger is that it sets an example that says it's OK to roll the dice against the odds. We all hope that we never have to be in a life or death situation where the only thing preventing disaster is a TV up to the task.

Weather, road conditions, and other drivers are all variables that we each confront when we tow our rig anywhere. Experience and Skill vs. a 1st time RV'er are also variables that come into play. Then there's liability when the "I-never-thought-it-would-happen-to-me" happens. Who gets to hold the bag when the trailer exceeds the truck's specs?

There's a lot to consider when enjoying RVing. Let's be safe out there...

[xrated]

What I read that some state when replying to will my truck tow my trailer that is useless to everyone. "I do it and it is FINE." What does that mean and what is it based on, no one ever explains how they come up with FINE and or defines FINE. Fine can be subject to each and everyone's opinion based on vehicles and experience. If fine means travel in the slow lane due to TV lacks power to pass, trailer sways as trucks pass, will not travel when windy, goes through TV brakes like gas in it's tanks, rear of TV is squatting, rear tires on TV nearly on sidewalls and over any of the listed truck weights is that fine.

My personnel favorite, when they know they are overloaded but not willing or acknowledge it is......"I hardly know it's back there" That's one of those..."When their lips are moving, you know they're lying" statements.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Ya, I hardly know it's back there..... I have a modest weight trailer (but good size) and with my more than ample truck there is no mistaking it is back there lol

[JRTJH]

My personnel favorite, when they know they are overloaded but not willing or acknowledge it is......"I hardly know it's back there" That's one of those..."When their lips are moving, you know they're lying" statements.

Ya, I hardly know it's back there..... I have a modest weight trailer (but good size) and with my more than ample truck there is no mistaking it is back there lol

Add me to this !!! IMHO, anybody (I mean EVERYBODY) who says, "I hardly know it's back there" should turn in their driver's license, head to the nearest neurologist for a brain scan and "hire Miss Daisy's driver" to manage their transportation requirements !!!!! Translated: If you don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind your vehicle, then you really, REALLY have no business operating machinery on the public highways !!!!!

[xrated]

Add me to this !!! IMHO, anybody (I mean EVERYBODY) who says, "I hardly know it's back there" should turn in their driver's license, head to the nearest neurologist for a brain scan and "hire Miss Daisy's driver" to manage their transportation requirements !!!!! Translated: If you don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind your vehicle, then you really, REALLY have no business operating machinery on the public highways !!!!!

Where's that big "Like" button?

[notanlines]

Here it is!

[ctbruce]

You mean this one...21794

[KYFamily]

Most people either don't care or don't know they have enough truck. Most look at what it can pull and dont have not clue about GVWR. I was once there and everyone I know that pulls with a 3/4 ton are over their GVWR. It doesn't take much to be overweight with these 5th wheels. When weighed mine I was over GVWR by 200lbs (Fully Loaded). Already had the camper and truck so I rolled the dice. Pulled it that way for 5 years. Flame all you want to but never had an issue and never felt the truck was on the verge of a disaster. I have since changed to a truck with more payload than I'll probably ever use but I am more aware of capabilities than I once was.

[rjrelander]

I think I posted something similar before but we stumbled into something that worked by accident. We bought the truck as a replacement for another that was on its last legs with no thought about travel trailers. A few weeks later we were at the RV dealer signing papers on a trailer that just happened to be a fairly good match for the truck.

Didn't have a clue what we were doing though. If not for the recent truck purchase making for a tight budget (and the DW falling for the wide rear windows on the 1750RD) we could have easily ended up with something a lot bigger that would not have been fun or even safe to tow. Like I said, blind luck.

[notanlines]

You mean this one...21794
Chip, sorry! That’s an ‘easy’ button in disguise.

[xrated]

You mean this one...21794

Dang man, you've got all the nice toys.

Just don't use this one on me.....

https://i.imgur.com/a5JJJ8x.jpg

[MattHelm21]

My personnel favorite, when they know they are overloaded but not willing or acknowledge it is......"I hardly know it's back there" That's one of those..."When their lips are moving, you know they're lying" statements.

Add me to this too. I hardly know it is back there when I’m stopped at a traffic light. :popcorn:

[FlyingAroundRV]

Add me to this !!! IMHO, anybody (I mean EVERYBODY) who says, "I hardly know it's back there" should turn in their driver's license, head to the nearest neurologist for a brain scan and "hire Miss Daisy's driver" to manage their transportation requirements !!!!! Translated: If you don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind your vehicle, then you really, REALLY have no business operating machinery on the public highways !!!!!
I can't speak for others that use the phrase "I hardly know it's back there" but for me it means that my towing is relaxed and comfortable. When the semis roll past me, my rig moves as a unit and doesn't squirm all over the road. I don't have "white knuckle" trips and I arrive relaxed at my destination.
That's what I mean when I say "I hardly know it's back there", not "I don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind my truck.". I kind of doubt many people mean that.

[busterbrown]

On the facebook pages,the ones that inquire, are sometimes open to listening about why their combo is undersized. But just as sure as a few of us (the dreaded weight police) come along and offer up the facts of why they are overloaded, some meat stick (usually a bunch of meat sticks), will post right up behind you and tell them that they need to ignore the weight police because according to them, you need a Dually to pull a pop up camper.

Apparently, that's the name of the game with "freelance Facebook" posters. Even on a FB group I visit for the lightweight Bullets, the non-sense opinions are overwhelmingly the majority. Just because the "dry weight" is 6,500 lbs, many justify the inadequacy of their tow vehicle (Durango's, Traverse's, Yukons, Burbs) with manufacturer advertised claims.

Case in point, FCA markets towing capacities on their performance web page of the Durango. "Big numbers mean big power" and "Best in-class maximum towing capacity" are bold headers that only solidify the opinions of owners or potential owners. Most don't dig any deeper and sound off on social media when some informed RVer brings the conversation back to earth.

[Dblhack]

Us too. Got the truck first, and even then all I knew what I wanted a V8. I knew nothing at the time about rear ends, GVWR, etc. Then we bought a trailer that was small (20ft) mainly because as newbies we didn't want something big.

We just got lucky.

[JRTJH]

I can't speak for others that use the phrase "I hardly know it's back there" but for me it means that my towing is relaxed and comfortable. When the semis roll past me, my rig moves as a unit and doesn't squirm all over the road. I don't have "white knuckle" trips and I arrive relaxed at my destination.
That's what I mean when I say "I hardly know it's back there", not "I don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind my truck.". I kind of doubt many people mean that.

What you mean and what a "novice RV'er hears" are often two entirely different things. When "talking" to an "unknown" on the internet, it's always (IMHO) prudent to express ideas clearly and distinctly with words that don't lend themselves to misinterpretation. On this forum, the phrase, "I hardly know it's back there" is most often a part of a post that goes on to say, "I do it all the time with my XXX (undersized tow vehicle/oversized trailer) and I hardly know it's back there.....

When hearing this kind of "nonsense" it's likely that a novice will interpret that communication much differently than a seasoned RV'er. When someone is "looking for an endorsement to their problem, they often will "seek permission" in any post they can twist to fit their agenda.

Not that I feel the need to explain my post (again), but I do strongly feel that phrases (no matter how they are intended) are much too often "interpreted the way the reader wants them to sound" so they can justify whatever they are "hoping will pan out"......

We do a novice RV'er a dis-service when we "pump BS" in a post with easily misinterpreted words and phrases. I say, save (or leave) the boastful key phrases to the automobile advertising, it does enough harm there without bringing it onto the forum where we ought to be dealing with reality, not "catch phrases".....

Of course, as always, YMMV as this is MHO.

[sourdough]

^^^^^ As some may recall I comment many times on how what we say is "heard" or "interpreted" by a novice. Many times someone unknowing, or uncaring, is simply looking for some sort of verbiage that can be construed to affirm, in their mind, a questionable or unworkable situation. Sometimes it's because they truly don't know and are a little worried, sometimes it's because they are completely overloaded and know it but look for validation.

As far as the phrase "don't even know it's back there", I think it's an incorrect statement. If there is something hooked to one of my vehicles I "know" it's back there (at least I hope so) all the time. Whether it's bouncing around, pushing/pulling, swaying, killing acceleration/mileage etc. or simply jangling the chains....I KNOW it's back there....all the time. I know it's easy to just type out a catch phrase but sometimes they truly can be misleading.

I've not addressed the "why you didn't buy enough truck" from my perspective. I think it is a complicated issue. Weights and towing are sort of complicated. Wanting an RV and go have fun is not complicated - it sounds fun....and so, many folks WANT to get an RV and go have fun. That's when the fun begins. The guy that has the RV also wants you to go have fun....so he can have your money. The guy selling you the truck wants you to go have fun....so he can have your money. Weights complicate things, cause questions, concerns and worries. So that new family that wants to have a new RV and go have fun gets all the boxes checked at every place they stop and look. Then....real life sets in. Some study up and realize the mistake and then correct it. Some have to wait a bit towing overweight knowingly but correct it as soon as they can. Some don't believe it because the sales guy said we're good and then some just don't care. So there is where a lot of the "why you didn'g buy enough truck" comes from.


In addition, the truck manufacturers advertise towing ability only...they PUSH it constantly. That's what the buyer hears and looks at. The RV manufacturers push their "light weight" units, "half ton towables" etc. claiming virtually anything down to a Yugo can pull one of their units off the lot. THEN you have publications like Trailer Life (they tend to aggravate me :)) that tend to stress the towing capacity as well. It seems at times to me that they are trying to "sell" the trailer/truck rather than giving the objective, detailed report I would like to have. When you add all that up it is completely understandable that a person buys a truck that isn't enough and then is stunned, saying "what???" when someone mentions the weights. I guess the trick is what do you do when you've found you made a mistake (hopefully they studied up)? Hopefully correct it vs getting mad or just ignoring the situation.

That's JMO in a nutshell :lol:. Just got in from a 4 1/2hr drive with construction so thought I would "let off a little energy" on the keyboard. As always, YMMV.

[FlyingAroundRV]

... I guess the trick is what do you do when you've found you made a mistake (hopefully they studied up)? Hopefully correct it vs getting mad or just ignoring the situation. ...

And then there's the other solution to making a mistake; Double down and deny, deny, deny. IMHO, the reality deniers are the most dangerous and intractable.

[Snoking]

I have seen more SUV's with bumper pulls on their side in our travels than pickup trucks!!!

[jsb5717]

It's definately challenging. Ignorance is bliss until disaster strikes. Deniers deny until disaster strikes. It's all well and good until it isn't. No one knows when the one situation will occur that will test the limits of your rig. It may never happen. The wise will be prepared just in case.

[rhagfo]

My personnel favorite, when they know they are overloaded but not willing or acknowledge it is......"I hardly know it's back there" That's one of those..."When their lips are moving, you know they're lying" statements.

Add me to this too. I hardly know it is back there when I’m stopped at a traffic light. :popcorn:

:hide::hide:
I know I will get flamed for this one!!

I will state there is a BIG difference between towing a TT near, at, or over ratings, than towing a 5er over ratings!

I will say there were many times towing our 12,300# 5er with our 2001 Ram 2500 1,700# over GVWR, "I didn't know it was back there!" This included driving down the interstate, and two lane state highways. Wind on the coast, semis passing both ways the package was solid. If it wasn't I would have gotten rid of the 5er or upgraded the TV sooner.
This is the hard part of convincing someone towing a 5er over GVWR, you just don't notice it, the physics of towing a 5er are SOLID. I can't ever remember feeling being affected by wind, this included driving south on 101 exposed directly to gale force winds off of the Pacific.

Now those towing a TT at or near max ratings start having problems with sway, complain of ill handling in light winds, long TT and passing semi's push. You just don't see this with 5th wheels.

This is why we are seeing more and more towing 5er's with 1/2 ton pickups. Are they over GVWR most likely except for maybe the F150's with the Max/Max package, do they feel it when towing, not likely.
It scares me that most likely some are exceeding tire ratings and are not aware of it.

The only times I knew my 5er was back there was climbing hills as it was a manual and I needed to drop a gear and put my foot in it, and getting going from a stop, with 3.55's and about 300 hp, I did need to wind it a bit to get to speed. Coming down those hills, PacBrake kept the speed in check without needing the service brakes.

Yes, I am much happier with the 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, but the 2001 Ram 2500 did the job well. This is why many towing 5er over GVWR state "I Don't Even Know It Is Back There!"

[notanlines]

Russ, flamer or not, I agree with all of what you said other than the "I hardly knew it was back there." This brings us to the age-old discussion of weight distribution hitches, anti-sway equipment and proper setup. Fifth wheel hitches grouped together still put the king pin at or near the rear axle and don't move while driving. They all perform the same service, just in different configurations. They all perform the same in no wind or in high wind within reason. Not so for WDH's. Towing a 32' Bullet with a WDH costing $280 vs a WDH system costing $1200 is like night and day.
See? Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Less pain than a flu shot...:D

[Mad Cow]

I have often wondered why, if some has an idea they will be actually hauling and towing (even lighter towing), that they don't just get a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton pickup. I have found, in many cases, that one can get a well spec'd 3/4 ton for the same or even less price than a well spec'd 1/2 ton. Pricing is all about what the market will bear and volume of sales. The 1/2 tons are not nearly the value for the dollar that the 3/4 tons are. And we would have fewer of these types of discussions if some folks invested their money better and sought out the best value.

[TYHLR]

I have a 3500 DRW GMC pulling a 3602 Raptor that weighs in at 15K.

For the "i don't even know that it is back there" crowd, i say BS. My TV is more than ample to pull my 5vr and I can tell you that you always know that is is back there. Whether it being going up or down hills/mountains, towing in crosswinds, being passed by a semi or my frequent stops for diesel fuel. Yea, anyone that tows know that the trailer is back there, regardless if the complete tow rig is in spec or not.

I am of the opinion that anyone that makes that statement is simply attempting a defense mechanism for knowing that they are towing outside the parameters of the rig that they are operating. Just my 2 cents.

[pdaniel]

As most of you know, I recently bought another brand and I am a member there also, plus three of the facebook pages pertaining to the brand, model and exact model number that I have. If you think it's BAD here, to use an old phrase....."You ain't seen nothin yet". At least on here, folks will come on and ask opinions about their truck/trailer combo and many times, after many of us offer up why it is not adequate (or it may be), they get the message and proceed to do what they can to rectify their under sized tow vehicle. On the facebook pages,the ones that inquire, are sometimes open to listening about why their combo is undersized. But just as sure as a few of us (the dreaded weight police) come along and offer up the facts of why they are overloaded, some meat stick (usually a bunch of meat sticks), will post right up behind you and tell them that they need to ignore the weight police because according to them, you need a Dually to pull a pop up camper. One guy I recently tried to set straight has looked at the payload numbers, based on the "maximum towing capacity" for that one ton truck. I tried to explain it was not the correct number to use, that he needed to look on the door sticker for the number for HIS truck....not an ad or brochure. He basically told me I didn't have a clue and that was wrong. Well, I added in some more less than kind remarks and just had to let it go. I swear, there is a metric sh!t ton of stupid over there.....but I keep trying. :banghead: :banghead:
I second your comment. On another forum I subscribe to, a forum for a competitor, their top of the line 5th wheels are heavy. One individual weighed in (no pun intended) that he had a 2015 2500 with a diesel engine an a cargo capacity of around 2300 lbs and towed weight of a little over 17,000. The fiver he was looking at put him 700 lbs of pin weight and close to the towed weight dry.
Well, one individual told him that that was close enough and to go for it.
In looking at the specs for the RV my 2016 Ram 3500 SRW with HO Cummins and Aisin transmission would be closed to max on all of the weights so I told the person inquiring about his 2500 working with an RV that should only be towed by a dual wheel truck.
I reminded him about the shark in a movie where Sheriff Brody states they are going to need a bigger boat, and to treat that RV as that shark.
He agreed, he will need a bigger truck.

[Doswheelers]

Russ, flamer or not, I agree with all of what you said other than the "I hardly knew it was back there." This brings us to the age-old discussion of weight distribution hitches, anti-sway equipment and proper setup. Fifth wheel hitches grouped together still put the king pin at or near the rear axle and don't move while driving. They all perform the same service, just in different configurations. They all perform the same in no wind or in high wind within reason. Not so for WDH's. Towing a 32' Bullet with a WDH costing $280 vs a WDH system costing $1200 is like night and day.
See? Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Less pain than a flu shot...:D

Agreed. A Hensley or Propride certainly levels the playing field a bit...

[Snoking]

I have often wondered why, if some has an idea they will be actually hauling and towing (even lighter towing), that they don't just get a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton pickup. I have found, in many cases, that one can get a well spec'd 3/4 ton for the same or even less price than a well spec'd 1/2 ton. Pricing is all about what the market will bear and volume of sales. The 1/2 tons are not nearly the value for the dollar that the 3/4 tons are. And we would have fewer of these types of discussions if some folks invested their money better and sought out the best value.

To carry that step one further, why stop at a 250/2500 if getting a diesel, they are heavy and with a Max GVWR of 10K they have a limited payload.

[Mad Cow]

To carry that step one further, why stop at a 250/2500 if getting a diesel, they are heavy and with a Max GVWR of 10K they have a limited payload.

Yeah, if I was going diesel, I would probably just go on to the 1 ton variety. I guess it really depends on what one is trying to accomplish.

A gasser 3/4 ton will go well beyond anything the best 1/2 ton can accomplish..... in both payload and towing capacity. Even with two people and a few hundred lbs of gear on board my gasser 2500, I still have about 2300 lb of payload capacity left.

And that was the point. If one is looking at a 1/2 ton, which most are gassers anyway, why not just bypass the 1/2 ton and move onto the 3/4 ton. For instance, the most capable 1/2 ton that GM offers is the 6.2L variety. Yeah, numbers on the motor look good, but it requires premium fuel to get the most out of it. And even then, it doesn't match a GM 6.0L 3/4 ton gasser in either payload or towing capacity. And anyone can find a GM 3/4 ton, any day of the week, for thousands less in cost than a 6.2L 1/2 ton. And speaking still of GM, the new 6.6L gasser in the 2020 2500/3500 will knock the socks off of the 6.2L in the 1/2 ton, will only recommend regular 87 fuel unlike the Ecotec 6.2 recommendation of premium, and will likely still be thousands less than a 6.2L loaded 1/2 ton.

And the max GVWR of 10K for a 2500/250 has to do with the class it is in, not the power plant. 10K is the max limit GVWR for a 2500/250 per regulatory requirements. And yet, a comparable spec'd 3500/350 SWR has a very similar payload as a 2500/250. One has to move into the DRW variety to substantively move beyond the 10K.

[jhop_8]

Just to add my 2 cents... I have said I hardly know it’s back there now because I am comparing the TT being towed by my previously inadequate vehicle. I fell for the Durango will tow 7,000 lbs crap the salesman fed me while looking at the Cruise Lite. I drove 10 miles to my house, unhooked and called around for a 2015 Ram 1500 with 3.92 gears, trailer brakes, and a hemi. That was a night and day tow! Fast forward 2 years and I upgraded to a 2500, 4wd, Cummins and once again immediately felt the difference. I was thinking that I could upgrade to a 5er one day but there is so much to check off in the “wants” box I don’t think it is capable of pulling what we could get. I will day I hardly notice it but that’s comparing to the SUV.

[slow]

My F250 was cheaper new than a new F150 with less payload. Both XLTs with the F150 having the max payload.

Sitting at the campfire now. Looking around and all but one other TV is within spec for the rig they are pulling IMO. Some excessively and they have no clue.

[rhagfo]

I have a 3500 DRW GMC pulling a 3602 Raptor that weighs in at 15K.

For the "i don't even know that it is back there" crowd, i say BS. My TV is more than ample to pull my 5vr and I can tell you that you always know that is is back there. Whether it being going up or down hills/mountains, towing in crosswinds, being passed by a semi or my frequent stops for diesel fuel. Yea, anyone that tows know that the trailer is back there, regardless if the complete tow rig is in spec or not.

I am of the opinion that anyone that makes that statement is simply attempting a defense mechanism for knowing that they are towing outside the parameters of the rig that they are operating. Just my 2 cents.

Sorry I stand by my statements in post #34.
The "I don't even know it's back there" is relative the items you state if pulling a 5er, there is something wrong with your setup!
I can say I never noticed a semi passing going either way at me or passing me. Down hills, PacBrake I would see cars and trailers in a sea of brake lights ahead of me, and just listing to the rumble of the PacBrake, never touching the service brakes.
Yes, I knew it was back there on climbs, as I needed to drop a gear to 4th (direct) with the 5 speed manual, and put my foot in it a bit. This is with a 12,500# 5er and a 2001 Ram 2500 with 3.55 gears. With the current 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, I need to check the mirrors often.

[MikePugs]

I just bought my first camper and I'm concerned that our Pathfinder isn't enough to pull it. The 2016 Pathfinder is rated for 5000lbs. The Travel trailer is the Bullet 2070 which has a dry weight of about 3800lbs. I have weight distribution on it and it ran pretty smoothly.

At 65mph we were at around 3500 rpms. Is this typical and acceptable? I thought buying the lightweight 3800lb trailer would be ok for a towing vehicle rated at 5000lbs.

I should also mention that we are in Florida, so not many inclines and declines.

Please advise.

[jsb5717]

Mike, that's a very common issue. There is a lot of good education on towing capacities in this forum.

The issue isn't "can it pull this trailer?" but rather "should it pull this trailer?"

Your trailer has a GVWR of 5400 lbs...that's the number to look at. I think you're destined to straining your Pathfinder under that load. You would be well served to get a 1/2 ton truck with a larger motor.

Welcome to the forum and good travels

[leest422]

2017 Keystone 30RLI
2017 Chev Silverado 3500HD


Started life as RV'ers with 2016 Silverado 1500 but learned early on that this would be too small for our TT. Bit the bullet and traded for 3500HD. Best decision of RV life so far. Plenty of room for ease of mind traveling now. Sour medicine to have to take but worked.


Safe travels!!

[falcondan95705]

4.8?????LOL The Ford Straight 6 was a 300 Cuin 4.9.... This 4.8 won't pull a wet noodle out of a lard bucket... My boat has the MERCRUISER 3.0 4 banger.... It would probably pull better than that 4.8 "Big V8"/.

[the406life]

I just make sure I'm happy with my setup, make sure my insurance bill is paid, and keep the hammer down. I don't want other's advice or opinions, and I won't offer my own when it comes to towing. It's better to just keep your mouth shut and stay out of it because everybody has a different opinion, and they all think theirs is better than yours.

[Ken / Claudia]

The site is all about opinions, nearly everyone who posts is asking a question and wants opinions. Hopefully they also want facts. But, your facts and opinions maybe different than mine. The worse thing that can happen is someone who does not agree with you. I have spend my life since 1981 doing a job that very few people want to or will or obey my facts and opinions. Those are of course face to face not through a computer and the risk is real to me when someone does not like what I say. Be polite and say what you want/need to say. That actually works most times face to face also.

[KC10Chief]

I bought a new truck last year with the intention of buying a travel trailer. I already had the trailer picked out too and knew I'd be about 8,000 pounds loaded up. I'd like a Super Duty and could have afforded any truck I wanted. But a super duty wouldn't fit in my garage! I commute 25 miles each way to work too. The F-150 was a better choice for me. I educated myself first. I also bought a ProPride hitch right off the bat and added E-rated tires to my truck. My truck has the 3.5L EcoBoost motor. Power is just not a problem when towing my 8,000 pound trailer. This truck has almost as much power as my 2002 F-250 with a 7.3L diesel had. It's an amazing vehicle. Stopping is no problem either. I do however feel like I'm pretty maxed out on suspension. I wouldn't want to tow anything much heavier. Ford's 13,200 pound tow rating for my truck is pretty off the mark. But I did know all of this going in and I'm very satisfied with my truck, trailer and my towing experience. In a few more years, we will be upgrading to a one ton dually and a fiver for full time living! There seems to be a bunch of folks who seem to thing you need a heavy duty truck and diesel to tow just about anything and it's just not true.

[Snoking]

I bought a new truck last year with the intention of buying a travel trailer. I already had the trailer picked out too and knew I'd be about 8,000 pounds loaded up. I'd like a Super Duty and could have afforded any truck I wanted. But a super duty wouldn't fit in my garage! I commute 25 miles each way to work too. The F-150 was a better choice for me. I educated myself first. I also bought a ProPride hitch right off the bat and added E-rated tires to my truck. My truck has the 3.5L EcoBoost motor. Power is just not a problem when towing my 8,000 pound trailer. This truck has almost as much power as my 2002 F-250 with a 7.3L diesel had. It's an amazing vehicle. Stopping is no problem either. I do however feel like I'm pretty maxed out on suspension. I wouldn't want to tow anything much heavier. Ford's 13,200 pound tow rating for my truck is pretty off the mark. But I did know all of this going in and I'm very satisfied with my truck, trailer and my towing experience. In a few more years, we will be upgrading to a one ton dually and a fiver for full time living! There seems to be a bunch of folks who seem to thing you need a heavy duty truck and diesel to tow just about anything and it's just not true.

Maybe you can hop over to the "White Knuckle" thread and give that F150 owner some sage advice! Chris

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=343211#post343211

[linux3]

You don't have to say anything. He got the "I told you so" message loud and clear. That explains why he is trying to "fix" the problem with aftermarket suspension parts and has gone silent.
Maybe transmission parts scattered in the road behind his stalled TV will be a good hint,then maybe not. Some folks just don't get it.
RMc
As of last weekend his transmission died a nasty death in the hills of Western PA.
You called it right.

[cookinwitdiesel]

As of last weekend his transmission died a nasty death in the hills of Western PA.
You called it right.

No escaping reality :lol:

[kcamp99186]

I towed a small (8ft box) pop up for many years and never worried about the TV. I opted for a new truck and purchased a 2013 F150 Ecoboost. More than enough for the pop up. Well...next thing we did was purchase a 2015 Bullet Premier with a gross wt of 8000lbs. That truck pulled it well, BUT I definitely knew it was back there. Then I found a busted shock after one trip. Thanks to the knowledgeable folks on this site, I quickly realized that I didn't have enough truck to CARRY the load. I ended up convincing my DW that a new truck was necessary (even though I was retiring) and purchased our current F250 Diesel. Love this truck. It has eliminated the pucker factor and I've done the measurements and calculations to ensure that I'm within my vehicle's capabilities. Much more relaxed and I look forward to many new adventures When DW retires next year. If you are asking this forum for advice, be aware there are many years of experience here and they will give you the best answer possible or guide you in the right direction.

[Badbart56]

If you spend as much time on the interstates as I do you will see the shortcomings of people who don't have enough truck. So many folks obviously don't consult before choosing a truck and/or camper.

I drive a Freightliner and my GVW can be as much as 80K pounds. I lose speed and have to drop gears on significant grades. (I have a 12 speed) And I see many trucks, gas and diesel that blow by me on the down grades, yet I'm passing them on the up grade. They are overloaded. They are a hazard to traffic. It's hard on the equipment and begs for a failure. Those Hemi's and Chevy, Ford gassers can get it done, but when you hear it screaming going up that grade in the lower gears, you know they're at capacity, all in.

Trust me when I say, More is better. Buy as much truck as you need. Do your homework. I see many folks who learned the hard way having to trade in a nearly new truck to get what they should have bought to begin with. And the sales people are NO help. They just know they need to unload a truck to meet their quota this month. Same with the camper sales people.

I get this mental image of the little dog on "The Grinch Stole Christmas", trying to pull that sled. Yeah, it'll pull it! It's got a turbo! My peeps at Ford tell me that EcoBoost V-6 is an awesome motor, but you don't want to be out of warranty when the turbo blows. Very expensive. If you don't want a diesel, that's fine. Just don't think because you have a 3500 that it will do what a diesel 3500 will do. Lower the size of the camper if you have to. Whatever, just make sure your equipment is matched. Your vacation will be much more enjoyable if you're not white knuckling the steering wheel the whole time.:)

[66joej]

Second Badbart's comment. We had a 2015 F150 5.0 with 2040 payload. Bought a slightly larger TT 8500# GVWR. The truck was within all specs but seemed to wind a bit too much on our mountain grades so opted for the Ram in my signature. Yes there is a difference. I can now use CC!

[Roscommon48]

first off, you don't always need a diesel. for you, like me, you have to balance your driving habits and your recreation time.
it works for you so don't lose any sleep over it. there will always be people out there that tell you what they want you to hear. enjoy what you have now.

[the406life]

first off, you don't always need a diesel. for you, like me, you have to balance your driving habits and your recreation time.
it works for you so don't lose any sleep over it. there will always be people out there that tell you what they want you to hear. enjoy what you have now.


I agree with you. A diesel is not always needed. I told myself for 10 years we didn't tow our trailers often enough to justify a diesel. We have had a few travel trailers, a 5th wheel, and I have an enclosed car trailer, a boat, and an ATV/dirt bike trailer. I do a fair amount of towing and I still don't think I "need" a diesel.
However, about 4 years ago I was truck shopping. Stopped at a car lot to look at a 3/4 ton gas truck they had on the lot. After deciding that the truck was not nearly worth what they were asking for it I was about to leave when the salesman asked if I would consider a diesel.

I told him I didn't need one but I'd look at what he had in mind.
Long story short, I bought the diesel.

After spending 4 years towing and hauling with my Duramax, I'll never buy another gas truck again. I don't care if I "need" it or not.

[travelin texans]

I agree with you. A diesel is not always needed. I told myself for 10 years we didn't tow our trailers often enough to justify a diesel. We have had a few travel trailers, a 5th wheel, and I have an enclosed car trailer, a boat, and an ATV/dirt bike trailer. I do a fair amount of towing and I still don't think I "need" a diesel.
However, about 4 years ago I was truck shopping. Stopped at a car lot to look at a 3/4 ton gas truck they had on the lot. After deciding that the truck was not nearly worth what they were asking for it I was about to leave when the salesman asked if I would consider a diesel.

I told him I didn't need one but I'd look at what he had in mind.
Long story short, I bought the diesel.

After spending 4 years towing and hauling with my Duramax, I'll never buy another gas truck again. I don't care if I "need" it or not.

Couldn't agree more!
I've had 2 Duramax duallies ('05 & '13) towing 12-16.5k 5th wheels & can't imagine doing so with a gasser.
Just curious! The biggest thing most use as an excuse to not buy a diesel is maintenance cost, have you noticed that it has been enormously higher than your previous gassers? I did not! But as I said they were both Duramax. My son bought a '06 Ford Excursion with 6.0 PS & the maintenance costs on that POS were sky high & still wouldn't run half the time.

[GMcKenzie]

Couldn't agree more!
I've had 2 Duramax duallies ('05 & '13) towing 12-16.5k 5th wheels & can't imagine doing so with a gasser.
Just curious! The biggest thing most use as an excuse to not buy a diesel is maintenance cost, have you noticed that it has been enormously higher than your previous gassers? I did not! But as I said they were both Duramax. My son bought a '06 Ford Excursion with 6.0 PS & the maintenance costs on that POS were sky high & still wouldn't run half the time.

Pop in on the diesel/gas issue.

I had an 01 Duramax and moved to a 2015 GM half ton. My bigger issue with the diesel was not running it hard enough for most of the year. My commute is 3km (~2mi) and I'd end up buying and driving a POS for the winter months to save the wear and tear on the diesel running cold all the time. Second time my injectors started to give me grief, I gave up on the Duramax.

Outside of the injectors (an issue on early Duramax's), the maint costs were not really much more.

Now I want a bigger trailer and am looking at the 3/4 ton gas.

[Brantlyj]

Right now everyone is Gaga over the Ford F150 as the ideal tow vehicle. Check out this story and you can see where having the power to tow the load does not mean that the truck has the drivetrain capable of doing the job.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-trucks/watch-trailer-hauling-ford-f-150-break-spectacularly-in-drag-race/ar-AAB2mDD?ocid=spartandhp

I would think that having a truck in 4x4, no traction control and reving the engine to 2500 rpm before releasing the brake with 8000 lbs of dead weight all on a surface designed to reduce wheel spin will do significant damage to any truck regardless of size.
I don’t see this as a valid test of durability or ability.

Just stay within the ratings of the truck and your fine. No unrealistic testing needed.

[K_N_L]

I also thought at first my 3/4 ton would be good enough for a 5'ver toyhauler. I made 1 trip and stopped at the scales before I traded it off. Sure it sucked, as I added another 2 years on the truck loan, but the stability, safety and piece of mind when hauling the grandkids around is worth it.

[flybouy]

The world is full of gullible people that seek approval for their actions, good or bad. In my observations most of these folks simply cannot deal with the reality of "being had" by a sale. There's perception and there's reality. A good example is how an airline cabin is portrayed on TV with a dance hall sized isles, plenty of legroom, and overhead storage that can fit a magicians trunk. Reality, well anything but. Truck commercials are just as misleading with ridiculous tow ratings, cameras that can "see thru" trailers, etc. etc. Good advertising has always created good results for retailers (can you say Superbowl commercials?) and that advertising has been everything from outlandish claims to flat out lying. So do your children a favor and teach them the difference, it will save them some heartaches and headaches later in life. God knows the schools don't teach common sense it's up to the parents. JMHO

[66joej]

And where do they get those people that make the inside of a Fiat look like they're riding in 70s Lincoln?

[flybouy]

I've often thought that the ad agencies must have a lot of VERY petite people for that!

[ctbruce]

I've often thought that the ad agencies must have a lot of VERY petite people for that!If you look real close, you'll see that they are Ken's and Barbies.

[pdaniel]

Right now everyone is Gaga over the Ford F150 as the ideal tow vehicle. Check out this story and you can see where having the power to tow the load does not mean that the truck has the drivetrain capable of doing the job.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-trucks/watch-trailer-hauling-ford-f-150-break-spectacularly-in-drag-race/ar-AAB2mDD?ocid=spartandhp
I saw an ad for the F-150 and having 13,000 pounds plus of towing capacity. Hmm. That may explain a photo I saw on another forum of an F-150 towing a Grand Design Solitude fiver. Now, my fifth wheel has a GW of 15,000 pounds, pin weight of 2350 lbs and is 35 feet in length. It is not a low or mid profile RV. I tow it with a Ram 3500 with the HO Cummins and Aisin transmission and factory 5th wheel prep. I still have some cushion weight wise. I can't picture the F-150 with anything close to 13,000 pounds going up over the passes in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado and attempting to keep the speeds down on the down slope.

[pdaniel]

My 3500 is in fact close to the capacity of the 2500. But, there are differences in GCWR and cargo. My 3500 has on the average close to 2000 lbs more capacity. However, it is in fact power train that makes the difference-higher torque engine with a transmission matched to the engine.

[pdaniel]

"One has to move into the DRW variety to substantively move beyond the 10K.". No, that is incorrect. I have a SRW 3500. Here are my specs: 6.7L CUMMINS DIESEL (HO)
A6 AS69RC
3.42
12,300 Note the increase over 10,000
4,130 Payload

25,300 GCWR
16,660 Max Towing.

[flybouy]

I saw an ad for the F-150 and having 13,000 pounds plus of towing capacity. Hmm. That may explain a photo I saw on another forum of an F-150 towing a Grand Design Solitude fiver. Now, my fifth wheel has a GW of 15,000 pounds, pin weight of 2350 lbs and is 35 feet in length. It is not a low or mid profile RV. I tow it with a Ram 3500 with the HO Cummins and Aisin transmission and factory 5th wheel prep. I still have some cushion weight wise. I can't picture the F-150 with anything close to 13,000 pounds going up over the passes in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado and attempting to keep the speeds down on the down slope.

I think a good venture to get into would be to open a transmission shop at the top of the pass and a brake shop at the bottom of each side.

[sourdough]

I think a good venture to get into would be to open a transmission shop at the top of the pass and a brake shop at the bottom of each side.

^^^^If anyone could figure out how, 2 good locations would be at the top of Wolf Creek Pass and at the bottom toward Pagosa Springs at the pull out by Silver Falls. Seems there's always a vehicle, truck, RV or etc. pulled over with something "smoking".

[flybouy]

With signs starting about 1/2 mile with the phone number of the shop.
:thumbsup::thumbsup: