Surging

[Mroe67]

I have a 2019 Keystone Montana 3120rl and a 2018 Dodge Ram 2500 short bed with a Pull-Rite sliding hitch. My wife is complaining about surging. Feels like sometimes we are being pushed and other times pulled on. Don’t think it’s the brakes. Could there be an adjustment on the hitch that will fix this?

[MustBeNice]

That's the nature of the beast.... about the only thing you can do to reduce this is keep the units parked! :D

In all seriousness though.... You could try added air bags to the truck to dampen the ride / motion, if you haven't already (This helped my last truck/camper setup). As what you are feeling is a slight difference in speed between the units as a direct reflection of how the units and road react to one another.... Many, many factors can apply here, from the truck & campers tires rolling resistance to the rode, contour of the road, or sometimes it can be a matter of how the 'load' is positioned, water in the tanks "sloshing" as they are not baffles, and on and on, etcetera and so on.....

It's the classic redundant question: How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie role center of a tootsie pop..... 1.... 2.... 3.... Crunch! The world may never know!!!

[Number 4]

If the numbers I just looked up are in the ballpark you have a 16,000 pound trailer being led around by a 6,000 pound truck so there's most definitely pushing and pulling going on. My little TT is somewhat matched in weight to my TV so as some have been known to say, "I hardly know it's back there!" :lol:

[notanlines]

Are you using a MORryde pin box or something different?

[chuckster57]

Wheel base will affect ride. I have always had long beds with extended or crew cab so I can’t say it’s definitely a fact.

No there is no “adjustment” to your hitch, you can change the pin box for more “cushion” that should lessen the issue known as chucking.

[Frank G]

I do not normally enter these discussions but you have too much trailer for a 2500 even with a CTD. You need a 3500 DRW truck.

[sourdough]

I have a 2019 Keystone Montana 3120rl and a 2018 Dodge Ram 2500 short bed with a Pull-Rite sliding hitch. My wife is complaining about surging. Feels like sometimes we are being pushed and other times pulled on. Don’t think it’s the brakes. Could there be an adjustment on the hitch that will fix this?


I will make this comment, not for further discussion because it's not what you asked nor to chastise or anything else. Just a word of warning in the event you didn't know.

We are in the market for a new truck. It will be a Ram 3500 SRW. I have been trying to spec one out and find it - looks like it may have to be ordered. It will have an approx. 4000 - 4100 lb. payload; maybe 1500 lbs. more than your 3/4. I've also been looking for a new trailer to go with it.

Last week I went through lots of trailers. My criteria was to stay 35' or less and be towable by the aforementioned truck. Of course they want to show you the "big boys" up front. I wanted to look at Cougars because I like them as well as the Montanas or High Countrys. Salesman insisted that I look at the 3120 because it fit the length and he thought I would like the interior. We went through it and I told him "let's go look at the sticker on the side". We did. 35'...good. GVW 16,000lbs. I pointed that out and told him that he should always look at gvw and figure 20% for pin weight when someone like me comes in. 3200 against a 4100 payload was too close IMO. I told him that from my experience if there is a vacant hole somewhere we are going to find/buy something to go in it. So.....let's go back to trailers in the 13k gvw range or so....and we did.

Just to say that that trailer is a LOT for a 3/4 ton and want you to be aware. If you weren't then it's a good thing and hopefully you can take measures to minimize any downsides. If you already knew and thought the diesel made up for it, it doesn't. If you already knew the weight situation and are good with it.....sorry for bringing it up. Just don't want anyone to head out in an upside down situation and not be aware.

[rbrdriver]

Dittos on the comments about not enough truck. I believe the only "adjustment" he should be attempting is to exchange said 2500 for 3500, hopefully dually.

[roadglide]

I suppose dodge 2500 is designed different 2500 Chevy . I was grossly overloaded with my 13 LML . I never experienced anything like what your saying with my old TV . Is your 2500 a diesel ?

[bobbecky]

I have a 2019 Keystone Montana 3120rl and a 2018 Dodge Ram 2500 short bed with a Pull-Rite sliding hitch. My wife is complaining about surging. Feels like sometimes we are being pushed and other times pulled on. Don’t think it’s the brakes. Could there be an adjustment on the hitch that will fix this?

You say "surging", but with the Pullrite slider, there can be slop front to rear if the hitch is not adjusted correctly. You should have received a manual for your hitch, but there is an adjustment at the front of the hitch that keeps tension on the slider part when it's in the straight front to rear position. If it's loose, you will get a bang, either when you come to a stop and/or when you start moving forward again. Also, with our older Montana, we have the MorRyde rubber pin box that absorbs a lot of the chucking that is part of towing a fifth wheel trailer, and I believe the newer Montana's are using a different pin box now.

[jsb5717]

There really are a number of potential contributing factors:


TV capacity and configuration
Trailer weight
Load distribution
Pin height/trailer slope
Road conditions
Weather/wind conditions
Driving habits/speed
Driver experience


Bottom line: You're hauling a lot of weight and no matter what you do you will know it's back there...you will feel it. The variables in the list above will affect how you feel it.

I have to agree that part of what you're feeling is likely not enough truck. It's probably fighting to manage too much weight for it's capabilities.

Don't be in a hurry, keep plenty of stopping distance, stay safe.

[rhagfo]

Well once again bigger 5er 3/4 ton TV.
This one is marginal
Dry Weight 12,056#
GVWR 16,000#
Payload 3,944#
Length 35'
Dry Pin 2,280#
So likely unless the OP is an anvil salesperson will they get to the 16,000# GVWR.
That said the 12,056# DRY weight and 2,280# DRY pin is likely right at the TV's Payload capacity. When I was towing with our Ram 2500 1,700# over GVWR, had some mild chucking that was resolved with better shocks on the TV, and leveling the 5er and installing shocks.
Well I got tired of being that far over GVWR on the TV, and finally stepped up to a Ram 3500 DRW.
What many don't realize is how quickly the payload of a TV shrinks even before the 5er is hooked up.
With our Ram 3500 DRW, yellow sticker Payload 5,411#, last scaled full fuel and DEF, DW, beagle and in bed tool box, we scaled 9,950# on a 14,000# GVWR down to 4,050# before hooking up. We ate up 1,361#, had we done that on even a 4,000# payload on a 3500 SRW our 2,700# pin on the 5er would have had us once again over GVWR!!

[Hamlej]

Set the gain on brake controller a little higher to make sure the trailer is braking before the TV.

[Alamen]

Please have your trucks scaled to find out true curb weight. All trucks payloads are dry weight and not with fuel, fluids, people, hitches, and other goods put in the truck. 1 ton trucks with near 4k payload are really 3k before the trailer hooks up. I have the same trailer and it's 2500 lbs on pin not 2200. That is before you load the trailer. You are way over weight capacity for the truck. Absolute guaranteed. Don't believe me? Go to the scales and weigh the truck and trailer. With a 3/4 truck you are severely under capacity for that trailer. Hope that helps.

PS the truck is chucking because your bottoming out on the leaf springs and its hard bouncing the nose of the trailer. Check trailer is level front and rear with tape measure once hooked up. It will be nose down and need the pin box dropped to level the load back to the trailer axles.

[Thoremilly]

I have a 2019 Keystone Montana 3120rl and a 2018 Dodge Ram 2500 short bed with a Pull-Rite sliding hitch. My wife is complaining about surging. Feels like sometimes we are being pushed and other times pulled on. Don’t think it’s the brakes. Could there be an adjustment on the hitch that will fix this?

I have a Ram 2500 cc Laramie with the 6.4 3.73’s pulling a 38’ 341RKI Cougar absolutely no problems at all. Pull rite slider works well. Very little surge if any

[Hamlej]

If your brake controller gain is set to low for your trailer the TV will brake first causing the trailer to move slightly forward and up on the super slider. Then trailer again will move slightly rearward when you accelerate TV. Ideal condition is to have the trailer brakes apply first causing a slight drag on TV, thus no movement on super slider.

[Mroe67]

Sounds logical to try. How do I tell when the gain is set correctly? I have it on 4 presently. So you are saying set it higher and i’ll get less clunking

[Hamlej]

I think you should try it one step at a time. Drive it and see if there is any improvement if not turn it up again. On our TV that we just traded in we needed it set to 9. It will again be trial and error with new truck. In answer to your question, yes this should eliminate your clunking. If you have clunking and the fifth wheel is properly adjusted super glide will tell you to turn up the gain.

[jbsmith]

Clunking is different from surging/chucking. If you’re getting clunking noises, you need to adjust the slide stop in the front of the hitch. You do this by loosening the jam nut and then unscrewing the stop to add pressure when the hitch head slides forward into place. There should be slight resistance as the slide moves back into the forward position...then tighten the jam nut. The PullRite website should have a manual for your hitch that describes this procedure.

[johnlewis]

I do not normally enter these discussions but you have too much trailer for a 2500 even with a CTD. You need a 3500 DRW truck.
I agree. Our 2012 Ram 3500 DRW towed a 14,000 lb GVW 5er, and we had some safety factor left in weight capabilities. You might even look at a 4500 DRW.

[Mroe67]

I was told by both the RV dealer and Dodge that the truck was big enough. I've driven up some pretty steep mountains and is handles the load fine. I was passing other RV people going up hill, didn't seem to strain much on truck. But I will weigh everything and check figures just to be sure. I think where my problem is that I didn't have the trailer brake set high enough and the truck was doing most of the stopping. Since setting the trailer brake gain setting higher, it's not clunking. But Pull Rite said I still will have to make the adjustment bolt tighter now and then until about 5000 mile break in period. On our last trip and gain higher, no clunking, but on the way home, was getting some. Found that after adjusting bolt, it quit. As far as surging, that seems to be normal when going over bumps in the road. Trailer bounces on the bed some, it just worried the wife.

[MVBrown]

I agree! Just because a 2500 looks like the specs can tow 16,000 lbs doesn't mean you should do it. I never like being on the bleeding edge of a spec. I see lots of people doing this with 2500's and I just shake my head. Get a 3500 for a big 5th wheel. Nothing less!

[Mroe67]

the 3120 is the smallest 5th wheel Montana makes as far as I know

[penra]

I will make this comment, not for further discussion because it's not what you asked nor to chastise or anything else. Just a word of warning in the event you didn't know.

We are in the market for a new truck. It will be a Ram 3500 SRW. I have been trying to spec one out and find it - looks like it may have to be ordered. It will have an approx. 4000 - 4100 lb. payload; maybe 1500 lbs. more than your 3/4. I've also been looking for a new trailer to go with it.

Last week I went through lots of trailers. My criteria was to stay 35' or less and be towable by the aforementioned truck. Of course they want to show you the "big boys" up front. I wanted to look at Cougars because I like them as well as the Montanas or High Countrys. Salesman insisted that I look at the 3120 because it fit the length and he thought I would like the interior. We went through it and I told him "let's go look at the sticker on the side". We did. 35'...good. GVW 16,000lbs. I pointed that out and told him that he should always look at gvw and figure 20% for pin weight when someone like me comes in. 3200 against a 4100 payload was too close IMO. I told him that from my experience if there is a vacant hole somewhere we are going to find/buy something to go in it. So.....let's go back to trailers in the 13k gvw range or so....and we did.

Just to say that that trailer is a LOT for a 3/4 ton and want you to be aware. If you weren't then it's a good thing and hopefully you can take measures to minimize any downsides. If you already knew and thought the diesel made up for it, it doesn't. If you already knew the weight situation and are good with it.....sorry for bringing it up. Just don't want anyone to head out in an upside down situation and not be aware.

It would be great if you would share the specs you have come up with in your search!

[sourdough]

It would be great if you would share the specs you have come up with in your search!


What kind of specs do you reference (truck, trailer etc.)?

[penra]

What kind of specs do you reference (truck, trailer etc.)?

You mentioned you were looking for a truck with specific specs, 3500 SRW, can you share?

[sourdough]

You mentioned you were looking for a truck with specific specs, 3500 SRW, can you share?

Sure. 3500, SRW, SB/CC, 6.4L, 4x4, 4.10. Flame Red (preferable), front buckets, Lone Star or Big Horn trim, 8.4 Uconnect with nav, clearance lights, safety pkg. (skid plates, tow hooks etc.), no 20" tires/wheels, tubular side steps (not extended to wheel well), auto headlights, remote start, heated seats/wheel, park sense rear sensors, rear camera (no bed camera), no remote cd player (useless), chrome bumpers - at the moment that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I think they are coming out with the 8 speed tranny so I've just about decided to wait until I can find one of those.

[penra]

Thanks!
What's the weight on your Cougar?

[jsb5717]

Sure. 3500, SRW, SB/CC, 6.4L, 4x4, 4.10. Flame Red (preferable), front buckets, Lone Star or Big Horn trim, 8.4 Uconnect with nav, clearance lights, safety pkg. (skid plates, tow hooks etc.), no 20" tires/wheels, tubular side steps (not extended to wheel well), auto headlights, remote start, heated seats/wheel, park sense rear sensors, rear camera (no bed camera), no remote cd player (useless), chrome bumpers - at the moment that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I think they are coming out with the 8 speed tranny so I've just about decided to wait until I can find one of those.

Boy, it's hard "roughing it", isn't it...:angel:

I'm with you!

[sourdough]

Thanks!
What's the weight on your Cougar?

10k gvw, runs about 92xx loaded.

[Mroe67]

Saw a a dealer from my rv store and when we go in Thursday, he suggested a MoRyde Rubber pin box and an adapter Pullrite capture plate to mate them up and that should deal with the bucking. What is everyone’s thoughts on that suggestion

[Old Mustanger]

Saw a a dealer from my rv store and when we go in Thursday, he suggested a MoRyde Rubber pin box and an adapter Pullrite capture plate to mate them up and that should deal with the bucking. What is everyone’s thoughts on that suggestion

You do have a capture plate on your current pin box don't you? The Pullrite must have a capture plate to work correctly (not sure it would slide/work at all without one)

[Mroe67]

It most certainly does have a capture plate, it’s the only way the hitch will work

[Old Mustanger]

Thought so, just checking!:)

[Mroe67]

Dealer service manager and tech road with us on a trial ride. Said surging will most likely be corrected if I get a Moryde rubber pin box. But the clunking back and forth they said is normal for the hitch. But he did take a video of me stationary jerking it from forward to reverse and is sending it to Pullrite, so we'll see what happens next. Not sure I want to spend anther $1000 plus on a Moryde pin box just to stop some surging and bucking, but that will depend on how much the wife complains. :)

[rhagfo]

I do not normally enter these discussions but you have too much trailer for a 2500 even with a CTD. You need a 3500 DRW truck.

Well I agree that the towing experience will be better with a 3500 DRW, the difference between a 2500 and 3500 SRW is minimal. The issue most overlook is that the 5er needs to ride as smooth as the TV! you want a smoothest ride possible 5er, level, tires balanced, and good working shocks. You also need decent pin weight, the TV also needs very good shocks.
I pulled/carried a 12,500# 5er with a 2,700# pin on a 2001 Ram 2500 for many years and smooth doing just that TV was 1,700# over GVWR, and didn't have or need air bags.

[Mroe67]

Word back from dealer and Pull-Rite, that everything seems normal, and looked fine. Took a camping trip this last week. Made sure front adjustment bolt was tight and had electric brakes on my Ram set at max (10). Towards the end of the trip, got some minor clunks, but nothing I'm sure a little turn on the adjustment bolt wound't cure. So I guess I just live with the minor clunks and adjust the bolt when needed. Or spend the money on the Moryrde hitch

[Mroe67]

Since I have a short bed with a Pull Rite Super Glide hitch, I have to use a capture plate so the hitch slides correctly when I turn. But it falls off sometimes when I unhitch.. I noticed that the keeper bolt bracket is bending and if I try and bend it back it may crack. So..... I was wondering. If I get the Moryride pin box, will I still need the capture plate?

[chuckster57]

You will still need a capture plate. There are different ones for different pin boxes. If your current plate uses the Allen that hits the rear of the kingpin there is a fix.

Per our rep: find the contact point on the kingpin and drill a VERY SMALL dimple for the Allen screw to hit.

[Mroe67]

Now that makes sense i’ll Do that thanks