Is my truck enough ?

[Fkelly530]

I have been searching the site a bit and I am still confused about my answer I will be purchasing a bullet premier 29bhpr and I currently drive a

2015 f150 xlt crew cab 2.7l eco boost

Gvwr 6500lbs
Trans cooler
Trailer brake
Equalizer hitch

The trailer dry weight is 6000lbs
Carrying capacity of 1600lbs
Hitch weight 750lbs
Just want to make sure I’m not getting in over my head

[busterbrown]

It's good you're asking now. I purchased my 7600 lb GVWR 35' Bullet a few years ago and pulled it with a half ton Yukin XL Denali. Payload was 1550. That truck was sold before the start of the next camping season and my 3/4 ton RAM was the appropriate replacement. I officially joined the "been there done that" club. FYI, club membership is not cheap. Others will chime in on the specifics.

[MarkEHansen]

You should always (always) do your calculations based on the GVWR of the trailer, not the dry (shipping) weight. The dry weight is a number used by manufacturers and dealers to try to sucker people into purchasing a trailer that is too much for their truck :(

The same goes for the tongue weight. The marketing brochure will provide the TW based on the empty trailer (with no propane or batteries, etc.). You should figure your TW based on 15% of the GVWR of the trailer.

Based on the information you provided above, the GVWR of your trailer is 7600 lbs. (which seems light, so you should double-check this using the yellow payload sticker on the left front of your trailer).

Given that, the TW should be figured at 1140 lbs.

Next, take the cargo capacity of your truck (from the yellow payload sticker from the door jamb of the driver's door on the truck). It will say something like "cargo must not exceed ... lbs.". From this payload capacity, you need to be able to deduct all of the following:
- People in the truck
- Cargo in the truck
- Weight of the WD trailer hitch
- TW of the trailer

I don't know the numbers on your truck, but I'm guessing with the above, you'll be over.

Then you should also consider the max combined weight rating (MCWR) - this is the maximum weight you're allowed to have on the road, which combines the full weight of the truck and trailer combined. To get these, you can use the GVWRs of both the truck and trailer, but really you should go to the scales and have them weighed.

When working all these numbers, you need to consider the following:
- Do I have enough truck (engine, transmission, etc.) to pull this load up and over the hills without causing undue stress on the engine/transmission, etc.
- Do I have enough truck (brakes) to stop this whole load in the event the trailer brakes fail without causing undue stress to the truck brakes.
- Do I have enough truck (suspension, tires, etc.) to control the trailer in heavy winds, while passing or being passed by semi trucks - and especially in the event of an emergency maneuver, like dodging a deer which just jump out on the road in front of me or a tire failure (blow-out).

Post back your numbers and let's have a look.

I hope you're asking this before you purchase. You'd be way ahead of us. We're in the "been there" camp. We has a "less than 1 year old" GMC Yukon Denali which we took a serious bath on when we traded it in for our current truck. The Yukon just wasn't enough to safely pull our trailer - even though the numbers looked "okay".

[Logan X]

I’m also in the “been there done that camp.” I started with an F150 ecoboost and upgraded to a F250 powerstroke after the first year. And if I’m not mistaken, my trailer is smaller than yours at 27 feet and 7000lbs GVW.

[sourdough]

Mark has given several criteria you need to take into account when considering using a 1/2 ton truck to pull a trailer of much size. One other aspect I didn't see mentioned is the sheer size of the "sail" you will have behind the truck that will want to manhandle it in winds, passing vehicles/trucks. In this case it is in excess of 34' - a lot more than a 1/2 ton can control easily IMO. And yes, I'm also in the BTDT crowd.

[travelin texans]

IMHO the F150 Eco Boost is definitely not the "tow anything" truck that it's being advertised as. If you have a boat or ATV/snowmobile trailer you want to haul it's a great truck, but a 7-10k rv, not so much.

[Cfitzkp]

Well i just bought a keystone premier 34bi and im towing with a 2018 f150 v8... i guess will see! towed fine first time but time will tell

[MarkEHansen]

Yes, there will be folks who say they tow large trailers with their 1/2-ton trucks. The problem is the numbers/odds are against them. I hate to say it, Cfitzkp, but with the length of your trailer, the odds are most likely against you. Be very careful if you choose to tow that combination. If I were you, I would have a good hard look at your numbers...

[Ken / Claudia]

I like others on here may have watched a Toyota pickup tow a space shuttle just fine. Just because XX truck can tow XX RV should they when there over the payload, tire max wt.s axle ratings GVWR, CGVWR? any or all of the above. That applies to all pickups, but 1/2 tons get beat up the most.

[Cfitzkp]

My gcwr is 14,400 and im roughly at 13,400 im hoping it will be good for a couple years and then upgrade to a f250 wish me luck

[Logan X]

My gcwr is 14,400 and im roughly at 13,400 im hoping it will be good for a couple years and then upgrade to a f250 wish me luck

The other number you need to look at, and it is often overlooked, is your payload capacity. It is located on the yellow and white sticker inside of the drivers door. It says “all of the cargo and occupants shall not exceed xxxxlbs.” My guess is with the size trailer you have, you are probably over on your payload capacity.

If I’m not mistaken, your trailer weighs 9400 lbs loaded, the tongue weight is around 1200 lbs, and it is 38 feet long. I’m not trying to call you out or anything but that is ALOT of trailer for a 1/2 ton truck to handle. I would very seriously consider the negative consequences which could occur from towing a large trailer and being overweight. You should also consider how light your truck is compared to how heavy your trailer is and how long your trailer is compared to the short wheel base of your truck. You are towing a giant sail behind you and I would be concerned that if you had to take any kind of evasive action, you would not be able to control that trailer. Personally, I would not want to put my family or anyone else’s family in danger by towing overloaded. Not to mention the legal and civil liability you could incur if God forbid anything went wrong.

Like I said before, I’m not trying to call you out. I feel strongly enough about the topic to make sure you have the information you need to tow safely.

[Cfitzkp]

Trailer loaded 8000lbs tongue weight 975, truck payload sticker is 1775lbs passengers 400lbs.. i believe im still under all my numbers and wont be going over 60-65... i appreciate all insight and pointers

[slow]

Be sure to get a good hitch with integrated sway control. Equalizer 4P and a few others are well respected.

[Logan X]

Trailer loaded 8000lbs tongue weight 975, truck payload sticker is 1775lbs passengers 400lbs.. i believe im still under all my numbers and wont be going over 60-65... i appreciate all insight and pointers


You said you had a premier 34bi? What I saw on the Keystone website had different numbers than what you gave. Of course I could be wrong, it happens all of the time.

https://www.keystonerv.com/travel-trailers/premier/specs/

Edit: you may be looking at the unloaded numbers, you should use the loaded numbers. The hitch weight is generally 12% of the loaded trailer weight or 9400x.12=1128lbs

[Cfitzkp]

Yes i got the equalizer hitch with 12k capacity

[Cfitzkp]

Yes thats the one not loading trailer at full capacity. loaded the trailer very light and traveling with empty tanks..

[Cfitzkp]

Just want to say i appreciate everyones insight and thats why i joined this forum bc im new to rving and want to learn everything i need to know! Thanks guys!

[chuckster57]

Yes thats the one not loading trailer at full capacity. loaded the trailer very light and traveling with empty tanks..

We all start out saying we won’t load to full capacity and have empty tanks. There will come that day that your stuck hauling all your water. Trust me I’ve been there. It’s amazing how fast all the “stuff” adds up.

[MarkEHansen]

You really can't depend on towing the trailer empty. That's just not how things work. You need to consider your capacity numbers based on the GVWR of the trailer and 12-15% for the tongue weight. To do otherwise is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

I sincerely hope you will be able to hear what the helpful folks here are telling you.

Best of luck to you.

[Cfitzkp]

Lol i know and i was skeptical at first when i bought this trailer and told my self cant load to full capacity no matter what. Not traveling crazy with it either farthest gunna take it is 2 1/2 hrs and hopefully can afford a bigger truck in the future so we can do more!!

[chuckster57]

It only takes how far to get into an accident? Best of luck to you and I hope you can work on an upgrade soon.

[Ken / Claudia]

I really did weight my trailer and it's tongue. Keystone said 560 tongue wt.
My weight is 920 lbs. tongue on my little trailer.

[chuckster57]

I just ordered the sherline 0-2000 tongue scale, my son just bought a Grand Designs imagine 3000QBH and I will post the actual vs. advertised tongue weight. I have the 0-5000 for fifth wheels and it’s eye opening when you start adding stuff.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I just ordered the sherline 0-2000 tongue scale, my son just bought a Grand Designs imagine 3000QBH and I will post the actual vs. advertised tongue weight. I have the 0-5000 for fifth wheels and it’s eye opening when you start adding stuff.

It seems that GD publishes extremely optimistic tongue/pin weights on their website, I would be interested to see your results.

For my trailer, advertised tongue weight is 860#. With the same sherline scale, trailer pretty much empty (only battery and propane tanks) it measured at about 920#. GVWR is 9660 and I am probably around 10% of GVWR tongue weight if I had to guess when fully loaded (plan to verify next time I go by a scale - they screwed up on my first attempt). We have not "maxed out" the trailer yet when loading up, the one weight I did get had 6540# on trailer axles + tongue weight in the neighborhood of 950#

Back to the original topic however, my trailer when on a trip is probably about 55% of the "rated towing weight" for my truck. My payload was only 300# under trucks max GVWR and I definitely would not go much larger on the trailer with my truck (3/4 ton diesel). I just have a terribly hard time seeing anything longer than 20-24' being towed safely with a 1/2 ton or large SUV.

My recommendation, when you DO get to upgrade your truck, skip the 3/4 ton and go straight to a 1-ton SRW. It will drive pretty much the same, cost the same, be the same size, but have tires/axles/springs all rated for a higher and more appropriate payload. I wish I had done that instead of starting with my 2500 (which I am otherwise quite happy with).

[chuckster57]

I just finished putting a washer and dryer in the front closet of a Solitude. Full tanks, 5500W Onan in front, pin weight was 3600 pounds.

[Logan X]

My recommendation, when you DO get to upgrade your truck, skip the 3/4 ton and go straight to a 1-ton SRW. It will drive pretty much the same, cost the same, be the same size, but have tires/axles/springs all rated for a higher and more appropriate payload. I wish I had done that instead of starting with my 2500 (which I am otherwise quite happy with).

I agree with this recommendation. It is good advice if you have a big trailer or are thinking about a small or medium fifth wheel. I also would have skipped the 3/4 ton and went with a 1 ton had I been thinking.

[cookinwitdiesel]

The Solitudes are solidly 1-ton DRW trailers. And look to be quite nice :) Looking online, the pins for them and the Momentums MIGHT be in the realm of realistic, but check out their published numbers for the Reflections 5ers. Lol

[busterbrown]

Dry weights are irrelevant and should be avoided in calculating "ready to camping" pin/tongue weights. My dry TW is listed at 700. I'm well over 1000 lbs when traveling with empty tanks.

Generally speaking, it's safe to assume a coach owner will pack on at least 750-1000 lbs of "stuff" even when traveling light for a short weekend trip.

New owners also have to take into consideration another 100 lbs for a WDH. This comes directly off the TVs payload capacity.

[ctbruce]

If you are asking, "Is my truck enough?" then take the time to watch this video. Really helps with knowing what the numbers all mean and cuts through all the advertising BS.
https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

[Javi]

I just finished putting a washer and dryer in the front closet of a Solitude. Full tanks, 5500W Onan in front, pin weight was 3600 pounds.

1/2 ton towable.... I read it on the FB :D :lol:

[Cfitzkp]

Just curious if i had the f150 eco boost i would be well under my numbers but why still not good im confused?

[travelin texans]

The numbers you posted earlier were not "well under", more like very close to max, 1775 payload - 975 lb tongue weight (seems light for a 8000 lb trailer) - 400 lbs of passengers (no number for anything added to the truck such as tools, blocks, chairs, bicycles, etc.) - 100lb hitch = 300 lbs or less. Plus a light weight truck with a little engine that has plenty of hp which is great for cruising down the highway & getting good mileage, but torque is needed to move it when heavily loaded.
I'm not saying you can't pull it, just like the lying salesman, you can pull it, but it won't be very enjoyable if you encounter winds, hills or lots of trucks passing you, which they will with this setup.
So buy yourself some good driving gloves so your hands don't get so tired trying to hold it somewhere in your lane.

[cookinwitdiesel]

One issue that is often overlooked is the weight of the tow vehicle vs that which is being towed. Another is the cross sectional area of the trailer - this is important as the larger it is, the more it will be impacted by cross winds or other large passing vehicles. Any impact on the trailer will result in it pushing/pulling the tow vehicle as well if they are not well matched in size/weight. A 1/2 ton truck usually tops out around the high 5000s in weight. A 3/4 ton or 1 ton is usually 8000 pounds heavy. That difference in weight provides a lot of stability for the overall rig. Additionally, the 1/2 tons are available with a "short bed" which shortens the wheel base reducing stability compared to the HD/SD trucks that have the "standard" or "long" beds and accompanying wheelbase.

[Cfitzkp]

The 8000 pounds is my trailer Loaded lightly my GCWR is 14,400 and the eco-boost is 17000 Would I be better with that or are you guys still saying the F150 is not good enough for a trailer that size

[Logan X]

That trailer is almost 40 feet long. The F150 is not a suitable tow vehicle in my opinion. Also, I’m fairly certain you will be overweight in payload, axle, and possibly tires unless you upgrade them.

[Cfitzkp]

I wanted to get bigger truck in future might get one sooner should i got with the f250 or f350 gas/diesel?

[MarkEHansen]

As mentioned before, if you're going to go 250/2500, you might as well go 350/3500 as the cost is not that much more. Diesel adds a lot of pulling power and should be seriously considered. Also, DRW vs SRW. The DRW adds a lot of pin/tongue weight capacity.

All of these factors are really personal. Consider your existing trailer's needs as well as any potential future trailer you may want to move up to.

For example, I went with the 3500, diesel dually because I want to move up to a larger 5th-wheel trailer at some point.

Good luck.

[cookinwitdiesel]

If you want no limits, no holds barred, get the 3500 DRW (will have the 8' bed - no option). If you need to drive your truck more regularly or fit into tighter spots (standard vs long bed, width concerns) a SRW can still be a nice option but will not be as flexible with 5ers as the DRW.

[MarkEHansen]

I've found the real item making driving/parking more difficult is the bed length more than the DRW. However, I've gotten used to both. I can't park this truck anyplace I can park a small compact car, but this is the trade-off with having something which can tow without issues.

[GMcKenzie]

I wanted to get bigger truck in future might get one sooner should i got with the f250 or f350 gas/diesel?

The issue you have is with the payload of your current truck. That's what you run out of before anything else.

Look at the payload number for a 250/2500 Diesel and you will find you don't gain much.

If you want diesel, go 350/3500.

Gas 250/2500 should have a decent payload. In the 3K range.Generally enough for a TT, but not enough for a 5th wheel.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Where I live (northern VA) only the newest and most accommodating spaces are wide enough to comfortably park my 2500 (new mall, or Costco). Most parking lots I have maybe 4" on each side of the truck once I carefully center it in the space and fold in the mirrors. A DRW would be even tougher in that environment.

When I was down in Florida a few weeks ago for work, it seemed like every parking space was designed to comfortably fit a DRW anywhere I went lol. My rental Mazda 3 felt extremely comfortable to park :D

[GregBiloxi]

I bought my Cougar 1/2 ton and planned to pull it with my 1500 Silverado. The tongue weight was advertised at 880lbs so I thought I was fine, and the sales guys said it would be fine too. After loading the camper and carrying about an 8th of a tank of water, my tongue weight was about 1,100lbs.

1,500 truck is gone and I now own a 2500 Silverado diesel. Do the math, and best of luck.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I bought my Cougar 1/2 ton and planned to pull it with my 1500 Silverado. The tongue weight was advertised at 880lbs so I thought I was fine, and the sales guys said it would be fine too. After loading the camper and carrying about an 8th of a tank of water, my tongue weight was about 1,100lbs.

1,500 truck is gone and I now own a 2500 Silverado diesel. Do the math, and best of luck.

Small word of caution, if driving with fresh water, it is best to completely fill the tank. That way the mass is non-shifting and acts as a "solid". If the tank is only partially full the water will slosh around exerting its force in a non-uniform fashion that will impact trailer driving dynamics and could introduce sway.

A half full tank sloshing around can exert much higher forces than a full tank that is "static" when driving/turning.

[Cfitzkp]

The issue you have is with the payload of your current truck. That's what you run out of before anything else.

Look at the payload number for a 250/2500 Diesel and you will find you don't gain much.

If you want diesel, go 350/3500.

Gas 250/2500 should have a decent payload. In the 3K range.Generally enough for a TT, but not enough for a 5th wheel.


The thing is im not over on my payload with this set up im around 1650lbs and thats including hitch passangers tongue and couple other things and sticker on truck says 1775lbs

[MarkEHansen]

You're understating your tongue weight. You keep saying that you will tow the trailer empty so the empty TW is appropriate, but that's not going to be the case. I'd wager if you go to a cat scale and weigh the tongue of your trailer, you'll be surprised. The number published by the manufacturer should not be used for this purpose.

Also, you need to consider the size of the trailer (width, height, length) and how that will react to your 1/2-ton TV.

The only realistic value to use need to be based on the GVW of the trailer, not the empty weight. This has been said multiple times. Take those numbers and go through the whole check: payload, GCWR, AWR (rear and front), etc. If you do this, I think you'll start to see.

If you want to continue to based your logic on the empty weight of the trailer, then as I said before, the odds are against you.

By the way, I was where you are - making the same argument. It took me a while to see it. Listen to the folks saying the same thing. I've been towing for a few years (30 or so, I think) - some of them even longer.

Best of luck.

[GregBiloxi]

The issue you have is with the payload of your current truck. That's what you run out of before anything else.

Look at the payload number for a 250/2500 Diesel and you will find you don't gain much.

If you want diesel, go 350/3500.

Gas 250/2500 should have a decent payload. In the 3K range.Generally enough for a TT, but not enough for a 5th wheel.
Agreed, this just happened to be where my holding tanks were when I weighed it. I do not tow it this way. Generally empty.

[Cfitzkp]

You're understating your tongue weight. You keep saying that you will tow the trailer empty so the empty TW is appropriate, but that's not going to be the case. I'd wager if you go to a cat scale and weigh the tongue of your trailer, you'll be surprised. The number published by the manufacturer should not be used for this purpose.

Also, you need to consider the size of the trailer (width, height, length) and how that will react to your 1/2-ton TV.

The only realistic value to use need to be based on the GVW of the trailer, not the empty weight. This has been said multiple times. Take those numbers and go through the whole check: payload, GCWR, AWR (rear and front), etc. If you do this, I think you'll start to see.

If you want to continue to based your logic on the empty weight of the trailer, then as I said before, the odds are against you.

By the way, I was where you are - making the same argument. It took me a while to see it. Listen to the folks saying the same thing. I've been towing for a few years (30 or so, I think) - some of them even longer.

Best of luck.

I am definitely hearing everything your saying and i appreciate the feedback if you dont mind me asking what was your situation and what made you change

[66joej]

I wanted to get bigger truck in future might get one sooner should i got with the f250 or f350 gas/diesel?

Pretty sure I'm old school on the gas vs. diesel truck thing. Our truck is a daily driver and trips are about 10 miles. My thinking and this is just my personal opinion a diesel engine will not reach operating temperature with the short runs. Diesels work best at full operating temps.
Armed with this info we went with the 3500 gasser. More than enough HP (410), Torque (430) and payload (3810#) to carry the tongue weight and pull our TT. YMMV

[GMcKenzie]

The thing is im not over on my payload with this set up im around 1650lbs and thats including hitch passangers tongue and couple other things and sticker on truck says 1775lbs

I haven't gone through the whole thread, but is this based on paper numbers or a scale reading?

My trailer brochure shows my tongue weight at 630 lbs. Scale said 480 kgs when I weighed without water. So 1,056 lbs.

I've got 2000 lbs payload and am at my limit with my trailer, GVW of 8,200. Again, as per the scale.

[GMcKenzie]

Pretty sure I'm old school on the gas vs. diesel truck thing. Our truck is a daily driver and trips are about 10 miles. My thinking and this is just my personal opinion a diesel engine will not reach operating temperature with the short runs. Diesels work best at full operating temps.
Armed with this info we went with the 3500 gasser. More than enough HP (410), Torque (430) and payload (3810#) to carry the tongue weight and pull our TT. YMMV

I'm the same. I had a 2001 Dmax 2500, but with a 3km one way daily commute, I was killing the damn thing.

What I have now is bare minimum. But I (being a GM guy) am really intrigued by the 2020 GMC specs. Payload is just shy of 4K (per the published specs).

[Cfitzkp]

I haven't gone through the whole thread, but is this based on paper numbers or a scale reading?

My trailer brochure shows my tongue weight at 630 lbs. Scale said 480 kgs when I weighed without water. So 1,056 lbs.

I've got 2000 lbs payload and am at my limit with my trailer, GVW of 8,200. Again, as per the scale.
Thats tongue from paper. Not towing with water in tank. What kind of truck do u have with a payload of 2000

[MarkEHansen]

I am definitely hearing everything your saying and i appreciate the feedback if you dont mind me asking what was your situation and what made you change

We had a 2018 GMC Yukon Denali. We had a max tow value of (I think) 8200 lbs and our trailer was GVR of 8800lbs. We told the RV dealer that we were not planning on towing with the tanks full, so we felt we were not over the limit.

The published tongue weight for our trailer was also pretty light, as something like 760lbs, when in reality, it's much closer to 1000lbs.

The real lesson was while towing the trailer. I never felt like it was going to go out of control, but it was a lot of white-knuckle driving. Of course, that doesn't account for the possible emergency/urgent situations. If one of those had happened (animal on the road, tire failure, idiot cutting me off, etc.), things could have easily gone south very quickly. I really don't like to think about it.

After the first trip with the trailer (about a 5-hour drive) I was exhausted. During those few days camping, we talked mostly about replacing the Yukon with a more capable truck.

This was a really hard decision, as we paid a premium price for the Yukon and it was less than 8 months since we purchased it brand new. We took a real bath on the trade-in value. I justified it by knowing we were much safer and in a few years, the money lost will be forgotten.

Now that I have a capable truck, I look back over my years of towing and realize I've been in the danger zone much more than I should have allowed. I feel that in some cases, I'm quite lucky I got out without any major incident.

This forum has been a great help in teaching my why those numbers are important.

Best Regards,

[Cfitzkp]

We had a 2018 GMC Yukon Denali. We had a max tow value of (I think) 8200 lbs and our trailer was GVR of 8800lbs. We told the RV dealer that we were not planning on towing with the tanks full, so we felt we were not over the limit.

The published tongue weight for our trailer was also pretty light, as something like 760lbs, when in reality, it's much closer to 1000lbs.

The real lesson was while towing the trailer. I never felt like it was going to go out of control, but it was a lot of white-knuckle driving. Of course, that doesn't account for the possible emergency/urgent situations. If one of those had happened (animal on the road, tire failure, idiot cutting me off, etc.), things could have easily gone south very quickly. I really don't like to think about it.

After the first trip with the trailer (about a 5-hour drive) I was exhausted. During those few days camping, we talked mostly about replacing the Yukon with a more capable truck.

This was a really hard decision, as we paid a premium price for the Yukon and it was less than 8 months since we purchased it brand new. We took a real bath on the trade-in value. I justified it by knowing we were much safer and in a few years, the money lost will be forgotten.

Now that I have a capable truck, I look back over my years of towing and realize I've been in the danger zone much more than I should have allowed. I feel that in some cases, I'm quite lucky I got out without any major incident.

This forum has been a great help in teaching my why those numbers are important.

Best Regards,
I guess im in that boat my truck tow capacity is 9100lbs and my trailer gvwr is 9400lbs never going to tow with fluid in tanks for that reason and only loading very light bc of the truck i have right now. the ride home wasnt bad at all first time towing and def feel that sumthing is back there cruised at 65mph np. i do know i need a bigger truck in the future

[JRTJH]

I guess im in that boat my truck tow capacity is 9100lbs and my trailer gvwr is 9400lbs never going to tow with fluid in tanks for that reason and only loading very light bc of the truck i have right now. the ride home wasnt bad at all first time towing and def feel that sumthing is back there cruised at 65mph np. i do know i need a bigger truck in the future

So many novice RV'ers say (and believe) they will never get into a situation where they need to tow with water or waste water. Most find that the first time they get into a campground with no water, that changes. Then, consider the weekend trip to a state park with water and electricity at the site and a dump station at the park entrance. You check in Friday night, plan to leave Sunday morning, get hitched, tow to the dump station with FULL TO THE BRIM gray and black tanks, only to find three orange cones blocking entrance to the dump station and a park ranger waving people to the entrance. You stop to ask him what's going on, he tells you that the dump is closed because someone plugged the drain with something and it will be late that evening before they can get it unstopped.

You ask him where the nearest dump station is, he shrugs his shoulders and says, "I think there's one about 40 miles west." You tell him, 'I'm going east" and he says, "There isn't one until you get to "XX town" which is 125 miles from here.".....

So much for your, "I will never tow with fluid in the tanks, as you now have two 38 gallon gray tanks and a 38 gallon black tank. That's 114 gallons of "unplanned weight" for a total of around 950 pounds of "I'll never tow with fluids".....

I can't tell you how many times I've been in situations that I "planned never to encounter"..... You'll be there too.

There's one member of our forum, who NEVER had encountered sway, didn't realize the issues, so wasn't concerned because it's always been easy towing with my rig..... Until he was 150 miles from home, trying to get back from a nice weekend, encountered 30+ MPH gusting sidewinds and "white-knuckled his way home".... His solution, invest in a $3000 hitch on Monday morning....

Most of us have been where you are. Trust me when I tell you that not a one of us wants you to spend money needlessly, not a one of us wants to discourage you from RVing. Every one of us wants you and your family to be safe while you enjoy what we all enjoy. We're not trying to EXCLUDE you from RVing. We're trying to help you make the experience safe, pleasant, rewarding and something you enjoy, not something you dread to do because you're exhausted when you get there Friday evening and only have the trip back home to worry about Sunday.....

We want you to keep RVing, not do it until you hurt someone or until you damage your rig and realize that it's dangerous and you don't want to do it any more.... Avoid that kind of experience and you'll always enjoy having the proper equipment.

[Cfitzkp]

So many novice RV'ers say (and believe) they will never get into a situation where they need to tow with water or waste water. Most find that the first time they get into a campground with no water, that changes. Then, consider the weekend trip to a state park with water and electricity at the site and a dump station at the park entrance. You check in Friday night, plan to leave Sunday morning, get hitched, tow to the dump station with FULL TO THE BRIM gray and black tanks, only to find three orange cones blocking entrance to the dump station and a park ranger waving people to the entrance. You stop to ask him what's going on, he tells you that the dump is closed because someone plugged the drain with something and it will be late that evening before they can get it unstopped.

You ask him where the nearest dump station is, he shrugs his shoulders and says, "I think there's one about 40 miles west." You tell him, 'I'm going east" and he says, "There isn't one until you get to "XX town" which is 125 miles from here.".....

So much for your, "I will never tow with fluid in the tanks, as you now have two 38 gallon gray tanks and a 38 gallon black tank. That's 114 gallons of "unplanned weight" for a total of around 950 pounds of "I'll never tow with fluids".....

I can't tell you how many times I've been in situations that I "planned never to encounter"..... You'll be there too.

There's one member of our forum, who NEVER had encountered sway, didn't realize the issues, so wasn't concerned because it's always been easy towing with my rig..... Until he was 150 miles from home, trying to get back from a nice weekend, encountered 30+ MPH gusting sidewinds and "white-knuckled his way home".... His solution, invest in a $3000 hitch on Monday morning....

Most of us have been where you are. Trust me when I tell you that not a one of us wants you to spend money needlessly, not a one of us wants to discourage you from RVing. Every one of us wants you and your family to be safe while you enjoy what we all enjoy. We're not trying to EXCLUDE you from RVing. We're trying to help you make the experience safe, pleasant, rewarding and something you enjoy, not something you dread to do because you're exhausted when you get there Friday evening and only have the trip back home to worry about Sunday.....

We want you to keep RVing, not do it until you hurt someone or until you damage your rig and realize that it's dangerous and you don't want to do it any more.... Avoid that kind of experience and you'll always enjoy having the proper equipment.

For that reason we are only going to one camprground we are familiar with that have full hookup bc of my situation. Im thankful for your input and look foward to future rving

[MarkEHansen]

I guess im in that boat my truck tow capacity is 9100lbs and my trailer gvwr is 9400lbs never going to tow with fluid in tanks for that reason and only loading very light bc of the truck i have right now. the ride home wasnt bad at all first time towing and def feel that sumthing is back there cruised at 65mph np. i do know i need a bigger truck in the future

I think you're almost there. Now ... what will you do when something unexpected happens. John talked about being unable to dump the tanks, and that's a good one, but there are other things, like the amount of effort and skill required to control the rig when you get a big wind (like from a semi-truck passing you) or an animal jumping out in front of you and you have to swerve suddenly or a tire failure on the truck or trailer, etc.

These events can be challenging in a properly equipped rig (combo).

I thought you were just not listening before. I'm quite happy to see that I was wrong about that. As John said, everyone here just wants to help you. This is all just food for thought. The decision is yours.

Best Regards,

[rjrelander]

We bought our truck used to replace another one that was pretty much worn out. Just needed something for general use and weren't even thinking about the possibility of looking at trailers. A month later we ended up at an RV dealer and bought our "cute little baby trailer" (to quote the DW) on the spot. Didn't know a thing about towing but it was small enough to get our feet wet and maybe move up to something bigger later.

We lucked out since I found out later that we had the 3.08 "highway axle ratio" so our wings were clipped at about 6200# towing capacity anyway. The 21 foot (with hitch) trailer at 4400# GVWR turned out to be a good match for both our TV and my initial towing/backing skill level. :rolleyes: Hopefully, that 3500 diesel DRW and a bigger trailer is on the horizon.

[sourdough]

As was said, you will come to a point you will have to run with fluids by necessity or some unplanned circumstance. You just can't run that close to your max weights. You also said you load very light right now due to the truck. That won't last either. Why go camping if you can't take all the things that make camping enjoyable? Been there, done that. Departing for a camping trip with the grill, jacks, bicycles, tools, etc. etc. etc. sitting there in the barn as you drive away with the RV.....without that "new fangled" InstaPot, no extra jeans, shoes, coats, boots, RV essentials, cookware, silverware, pots/skillets, and on and on and on.....is depressing....every time.

In addition to the above, towing at the limit in a 1/2 ton is just plain not fun. I used to literally dread hitting a long run and knowing there was going to be a breeze. By the end of a 6 hour towing day I was totally exhausted from trying to keep everything somewhere between my lines; constantly scanning the mirrors for anything coming up on me so I could tense and brace up to prepare for the push/pull when they came by. And I thought it was going well!! BTW, that was with upgraded LT tires, air bags and Bilstein shocks.

Bought a 3/4 HD gas truck. 3200 lb. payload. Hooked up the trailer and took off. Hmmm, "that semi just blew by me and I didn't know it"......"hey, the winds kicked up to 30mph...and I don't know it"!! Woo Hoo!! Some real life comments I've made to myself after upgrading. I also ENJOY hooking the trailer up and going; I can look at things and feel relaxed. I have zero worries what the weather is (unless hail, tornado etc.). And you know, back there, in the bed of the truck, under my locking bed cover, are my jacks, tools, bbq pit/stand, dehumidifier, picnic table, blocks, ice chest, etc. etc. that I couldn't take in the other truck due to limitations.

On top of all that is an even more important reason to have an adequate truck for the trailer you tow; I feel safe now. I don't look over at my wife driving down the road knowing she's trusting me to keep her safe and I'm not...knowingly. The other drivers on the road trust me to do that as well, now I am.

Others have posted numbers for you. You will be overweight if you actually load the truck/trailer to use. Overweight, or even close to overweight in a 1/2 ton truck is dangerous - there have been many posts as to why. You should always have a minimum of 15% cushion from your max numbers IMO - all of them.

A 3/4 ton gas HD truck will take care of what you have just fine. But, if you think you may ever want anything bigger you should just get the 1 ton. Whether gas/diesel, SRW or DRW all depend on what it is that you think is in your future. Personally I'll be replacing trucks soon. I will be going with a 1 ton SRW. Don't know about gas/diesel yet. The purchase price isn't much different and I should pick up 8-900lbs. in payload. I didn't want a 3/4 ton because they ride so rough and I had had a bad back for 32 years and a stiff truck killed me. Well, a gallbladder removal fixed that unbeknownst to me or my doc at the time!! Miracle! Now, bring on that 1 ton!

[Cfitzkp]

As was said, you will come to a point you will have to run with fluids by necessity or some unplanned circumstance. You just can't run that close to your max weights. You also said you load very light right now due to the truck. That won't last either. Why go camping if you can't take all the things that make camping enjoyable? Been there, done that. Departing for a camping trip with the grill, jacks, bicycles, tools, etc. etc. etc. sitting there in the barn as you drive away with the RV.....without that "new fangled" InstaPot, no extra jeans, shoes, coats, boots, RV essentials, cookware, silverware, pots/skillets, and on and on and on.....is depressing....every time.

In addition to the above, towing at the limit in a 1/2 ton is just plain not fun. I used to literally dread hitting a long run and knowing there was going to be a breeze. By the end of a 6 hour towing day I was totally exhausted from trying to keep everything somewhere between my lines; constantly scanning the mirrors for anything coming up on me so I could tense and brace up to prepare for the push/pull when they came by. And I thought it was going well!! BTW, that was with upgraded LT tires, air bags and Bilstein shocks.

Bought a 3/4 HD gas truck. 3200 lb. payload. Hooked up the trailer and took off. Hmmm, "that semi just blew by me and I didn't know it"......"hey, the winds kicked up to 30mph...and I don't know it"!! Woo Hoo!! Some real life comments I've made to myself after upgrading. I also ENJOY hooking the trailer up and going; I can look at things and feel relaxed. I have zero worries what the weather is (unless hail, tornado etc.). And you know, back there, in the bed of the truck, under my locking bed cover, are my jacks, tools, bbq pit/stand, dehumidifier, picnic table, blocks, ice chest, etc. etc. that I couldn't take in the other truck due to limitations.

On top of all that is an even more important reason to have an adequate truck for the trailer you tow; I feel safe now. I don't look over at my wife driving down the road knowing she's trusting me to keep her safe and I'm not...knowingly. The other drivers on the road trust me to do that as well, now I am.

Others have posted numbers for you. You will be overweight if you actually load the truck/trailer to use. Overweight, or even close to overweight in a 1/2 ton truck is dangerous - there have been many posts as to why. You should always have a minimum of 15% cushion from your max numbers IMO - all of them.

A 3/4 ton gas HD truck will take care of what you have just fine. But, if you think you may ever want anything bigger you should just get the 1 ton. Whether gas/diesel, SRW or DRW all depend on what it is that you think is in your future. Personally I'll be replacing trucks soon. I will be going with a 1 ton SRW. Don't know about gas/diesel yet. The purchase price isn't much different and I should pick up 8-900lbs. in payload. I didn't want a 3/4 ton because they ride so rough and I had had a bad back for 32 years and a stiff truck killed me. Well, a gallbladder removal fixed that unbeknownst to me or my doc at the time!! Miracle! Now, bring on that 1 ton!

You guys are the best thats why i joined a forum bc i wanted to learn from people with experiences bc im new to all of this. Experience knows best. And we are thinking of doing a seasonal next year and possibly for longer so just need to get pass this season until we can afford a bigger truck if we decide to venture out
But you guys think a F250 gas would work? Idk if i want to go diesel due to be an everyday vehicle

[Gegrad]

I can understand getting caught with your tanks full trying to hit the dump station and it is closed for one reason or another. But I can say in the 60+ different trips we have taken in the last 4+ years we have NEVER carried a drop of fresh water in the tank. And if we got to a park where the water was cut off when we checked in, well, we would pull right out and turn around, ha. Not defending anything at all, just commenting on that if OP says he won't carry any fresh water, well, that is certainly possible. And can be considered when calculating loads.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Pretty sure on my trailer the fresh tank is behind the trailer axles, so filling it up would actually lighten my tongue weight. Something interesting to consider.

[sourdough]

You guys are the best thats why i joined a forum bc i wanted to learn from people with experiences bc im new to all of this. Experience knows best. And we are thinking of doing a seasonal next year and possibly for longer so just need to get pass this season until we can afford a bigger truck if we decide to venture out
But you guys think a F250 gas would work? Idk if i want to go diesel due to be an everyday vehicle


I don't know your plans or future, but if, I say IF, you stick with the trailer you have (gvw 9400 lbs.) a 3/4 gas HD truck (6.4/6.2) and a good axle ratio (3.7x/3.9x/4.10) will take care of you just fine. Over 10k lbs. you need to start thinking about a diesel, at 12k you can get by with a gas with an axle ratio of 4.10 or so but it's getting into diesel territory. I have stuck with gas for the reasons you give along with several others. But, at the end of the day, the load, and your driving needs, will determine if a diesel is a requirement. Remember, that trailer is over 38' long...a 1/2 ton DOES NOT do well with that.

[sourdough]

Pretty sure on my trailer the fresh tank is behind the trailer axles, so filling it up would actually lighten my tongue weight. Something interesting to consider.


My water tank is in the back as well. I set the hitch up without water because I just didn't intend to carry it. I carried about a 1/3 tank twice but didn't notice any difference. I think if you have enough payload, and you have a HD truck (looks like you do), the difference may be negligible. I like a little weight on the tongue....not too much, but not too little either; guess I'm hard to please.:lol:

[ctbruce]

You guys are the best thats why i joined a forum bc i wanted to learn from people with experiences bc im new to all of this. Experience knows best. And we are thinking of doing a seasonal next year and possibly for longer so just need to get pass this season until we can afford a bigger truck if we decide to venture out
But you guys think a F250 gas would work? Idk if i want to go diesel due to be an everyday vehicleNot telling you either way, but my daily driver is a 3500 HD Chevy diesel. I'll never have anything else. My milage is better towing or not.

[cookinwitdiesel]

The mileage will be better, the fuel is more than normal but less than premium. There is the up front cost. Other than that, the diesel is perfectly doable for a daily driver and will of course tow better.

Some were concerned about diesel for short drives. MANY "consumer" cars, sedans, suvs are on the road now with diesel and do just fine with the commuter/soccer mom/grocery buying crowd. Just saying, that should not really be an issue. As long as it is used to tow every so often to force a regen, should be fine

[Cfitzkp]

I don't know your plans or future, but if, I say IF, you stick with the trailer you have (gvw 9400 lbs.) a 3/4 gas HD truck (6.4/6.2) and a good axle ratio (3.7x/3.9x/4.10) will take care of you just fine. Over 10k lbs. you need to start thinking about a diesel, at 12k you can get by with a gas with an axle ratio of 4.10 or so but it's getting into diesel territory. I have stuck with gas for the reasons you give along with several others. But, at the end of the day, the load, and your driving needs, will determine if a diesel is a requirement. Remember, that trailer is over 38' long...a 1/2 ton DOES NOT do well with that.

I dont know either i know for now were most likely only bringing it to the one campsite this year and possibly doing seasonal next and my thoughts were the f250 gas bc the trailer we got is good for many years to come. Reasons for going big in the first place. Thanx guys for all the input i cant wait to take it out n just drive nice and slow... and more pointers and tips im gladly to hear!!!

[Cfitzkp]

The mileage will be better, the fuel is more than normal but less than premium. There is the up front cost. Other than that, the diesel is perfectly doable for a daily driver and will of course tow better.

Some were concerned about diesel for short drives. MANY "consumer" cars, sedans, suvs are on the road now with diesel and do just fine with the commuter/soccer mom/grocery buying crowd. Just saying, that should not really be an issue. As long as it is used to tow every so often to force a regen, should be fine

Id love to go diesel depending on price bc i know the diesel will be in upfront price of 8-10k

[cookinwitdiesel]

That is accurate for a new truck. The prices will be closer for a used truck. Diesel engine and transmission will last a very long time though - a safe investment if you choose to make it.

[Cfitzkp]

I dont know either i know for now were most likely only bringing it to the one campsite this year and possibly doing seasonal next and my thoughts were the f250 gas bc the trailer we got is good for many years to come. Reasons for going big in the first place. Thanx guys for all the input i cant wait to take it out n just drive nice and slow... and more pointers and tips im gladly to hear!!!

This is my setup.

[linux3]

This is my setup.

38' long and 7,300 lbs dry to pull with an F150.
Excuse me but did the dealer actually know what you are using as a Tow Vehicle?

[busterbrown]

38' long and 7,300 lbs dry to pull with an F150.
Excuse me but did the dealer actually know what you are using as a Tow Vehicle?

Dealers and salespeople aren't legally accountable for matching TV to coaches they are selling. Most are motivated by the almighty dollar and will move units to anyone who wants to sign the purchase agreement.

There are a few exceptions including my selling dealer. My sales person told me that I would be on the upper limits of my 1/2 ton and after a period of time, suggested an upgrade to a heavy duty truck.

It took me about 4 short trips out to realize he was right. I appreciated his honesty. This forum convinced me the rest of the way.

[Fishsizzle]

I’m reading through this and it’s like an episode of this is your life!

You’ve heard lots say, been there done that. Put me in that line.
I felt like this was a doom and gloom threat till I saw your trailer.....

At some point in time that trailer will scare you to death. Might not be right away, but believe me you will freak when passing a semi, or get passed by a semi.

I had a Wildcat 28’ which we know is really 35’ tongue to bumper. It was a love hate trailer.

One posted said white knuckle, that was me. I was just exhausted keeping this trailer in my lane. It was no fun towing.

Currently I moved up in truck, but didn’t understand payload numbers well enough and now have too big a 5th wheel, so a new truck is in the future.

Advise, yes go straight to 1 ton when you can afford it. Gas is fine, its pushing 10k for a Diesel engine in a new truck. That’s a lot of vacation money.

[Cfitzkp]

I’m reading through this and it’s like an episode of this is your life!

You’ve heard lots say, been there done that. Put me in that line.
I felt like this was a doom and gloom threat till I saw your trailer.....

At some point in time that trailer will scare you to death. Might not be right away, but believe me you will freak when passing a semi, or get passed by a semi.

I had a Wildcat 28’ which we know is really 35’ tongue to bumper. It was a love hate trailer.

One posted said white knuckle, that was me. I was just exhausted keeping this trailer in my lane. It was no fun towing.

Currently I moved up in truck, but didn’t understand payload numbers well enough and now have too big a 5th wheel, so a new truck is in the future.

Advise, yes go straight to 1 ton when you can afford it. Gas is fine, its pushing 10k for a Diesel engine in a new truck. That’s a lot of vacation money.

How much did that first trailer weigh and the tow capacity of the f150... really like the second picture nice 5th... but your over in payload? Moving to F350?

[Fishsizzle]

2015 F150
2017 F250
2015 Wildcat 28rls

And yes out of payload on F250, buy 800-1000 lbs I’d figure. Looking to get an F450

[Cfitzkp]

Yea im in the same boat you were in with your first i guess we learn from our mistakes.... and 450 wow go big or go home right!... how heavy is the 5th wheel

[Fishsizzle]

Here are the Specs: 2017 Alpine 3661Fl

[cookinwitdiesel]

6 slides, that is the most I have ever seen! lol

[Fishsizzle]

6 slides, that is the most I have ever seen! lol

Yeah they are all “single” slide ls. So kinda like a quad slide size wise. The 4 uppers are not tall either.

We wanted the basement model. Lots of room for 5 pups to spread out

[rhagfo]

Here are the Specs: 2017 Alpine 3661Fl

Wow! 39’ and less than 2,000# of payload, not great. We have a 32’ and over 2,000# payload and use every once of it.

[Fishsizzle]

Wow! 39’ and less than 2,000# of payload, not great. We have a 32’ and over 2,000# payload and use every once of it.

Is what it is

[GMcKenzie]

Thats tongue from paper. Not towing with water in tank. What kind of truck do u have with a payload of 2000

Paper is useless for weights, except GVW.

I have a 2015 GMC Sierra with their max trailer package. They are around 2000 lbs, a bit less with the 6.2L. Ford has a max payload version that is rarer than hens teeth, but has a higher payload. I looked for one to see what I thought of it and couldn't find one.

Still, even with that payload amount, my 8,200 lb trailer is pushing it.

My water tank is right at the front of the trailer, and I usually tow with just enough for a couple of toilet flushes. My black and bathroom grey are still in front of the axle with the kitchen grey at the rear. As I posted, I'm over 1000 lbs tongue weight without water on my unit.

[GMcKenzie]

Payload sticker for those curious.

2015 GMC CC NHT

[{tpc}]

I don't have a lot to add here other than I noticed a new F250 FX4 at work today in for benchmarking, so I opened the door. Had almost 3k payload. Was 2953 or something like that.

I don't know if thats good, average, or better than average, but it seem relevant to mention in this thread.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Would help to know cab size, bed length, engine type, trim, etc. I believe FX4 is just package like Z71 on Chevys that gets a sticker thrown on the body.

Not knowing anything else, for it to be a 3/4 ton with that much payload it is likely a gas truck or a super stripped down diesel with no options/features.

[Fishsizzle]

Would help to know cab size, bed length, engine type, trim, etc. I believe FX4 is just package like Z71 on Chevys that gets a sticker thrown on the body.

Not knowing anything else, for it to be a 3/4 ton with that much payload it is likely a gas truck or a super stripped down diesel with no options/features.



Agree, most likely Gas

[{tpc}]

Would help to know cab size, bed length, engine type, trim, etc. I believe FX4 is just package like Z71 on Chevys that gets a sticker thrown on the body.

Not knowing anything else, for it to be a 3/4 ton with that much payload it is likely a gas truck or a super stripped down diesel with no options/features.

Ya, I didn't think of that. Had to hunt it down as they moved it on me but I found it. It is a Lariet, 6.2 V8 with the 6 speed transmission, SRW, 160" WB. 3.73 axle, 608A package. Moonroof, snow plow package, Lariet ultimate package. Leather seats. 10000 GVWR package.

I was surprised to see it's MSRP at 63,150.00 which didn't sound all that bad, but i'm not in the market yet for a bigger truck so not sure what that would get you in diesal or whatnot.

I don't know that I quite get the snowplow package thing for what seems to made as a more luxury ride, but I'm sure there is something to it.

[JRTJH]

I don't have a lot to add here other than I noticed a new F250 FX4 at work today in for benchmarking, so I opened the door. Had almost 3k payload. Was 2953 or something like that.

I don't know if thats good, average, or better than average, but it seem relevant to mention in this thread.

My guess would be if that F250 is a crew cab, then it's a gas truck? Also, the FX4 package is available on any truck from the XL to the Ultimate. Essentially it contains the addition of upgrade shocks, skid plates, hill decent feature and a decal. All the trucks I've seen with gas engines are "in that payload range" while all the diesel equipped F250's have payloads around the 2000-2200 pound range. XL (less options/less vehicle weight) have significantly higher payload ratings than Ultimate (more options/more vehicle weight) which weigh more, so those options come directly off the 10,000 GVW, meaning less payload.

ADDED: It looks like I "should have" read the entire thread before I posted. I see you found that truck and it was a gas engine.

[Tireman9]

Here (https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers)is the info you need to follow to know if you have enough truck to tow safely.

[pdaniel]

I agree somewhat the weights declared by the dealers and manufacturers are to sucker many in. However, I give credit to the manufacturer of my latest 5th wheel which declares up front what the laden weight of the RV should be. And the sales person, first question was, what is your tow vehicle and confirmed that my vehicle could tow the rig.
I will agree many get suckered into a rig that their current equipment cannot tow and belong, as one poster put it, to the "been there done that" club. I also belong to that club.
I cannot stress more to prospective buyers of towables-do your homework and buy a tow vehicle larger than what you need right now-don't live on the edge and think "things will be ok". Do not sucker into the sales pitch and have your tow vehicle capacities in hand.

[avalanchehd]

Not sure any trucks have brakes rated to stop the combined weight, but better to have too much truck than not enough.

[08montana]

The BIGGEST problem with your setup will be braking distance. And just one emergency stop will fry your brakes

[brodiegg]

Your truck may tow the TT but I wager you will be over payload. As stated look at the sticker on the TV drivers door, you will see max payload. Add the hitch weight, passengers, gear, propane tanks and anything else, see how much you are over. Also check to see if your tires will handle the weight and pressure---my tires go to 80 psi when towing. I too was caught in this trap less than a year ago and upgraded to 3/4 ton.

[S&D--Forever]

My father was really good at making bad news seem reasonable. So I will keep my news brief. You can calculate all you want, but your truck will be overloaded from day one. Don’t even consider throwing dirt bike or ATVs on it. Get your tow vehicle situation resolved first. Buy the strongest tow vehicle you can afford first, then consider your trailer. Leave yourself a big fat cushion in case your needs change. People laugh sometimes when they see me towing my Cougar half ton towable with my diesel super duty but it tows my trailer with ease and confidence. Truck first, trailer second!! Good luck.

[BadmanRick]

No your f150 is not enough to safely tow that 7600 lb trailer. The tail will wag the hog on this setup. Too much trailer for that light Ford F-150. Check with your insurance company and see if they will cover it if you have a accident.

[notanlines]

I generally agree with what has been suggested with one exception. RV veterans will normally side on the "Buy the RV first, buy the TV second" mantra. You will be less likely to get any personal body parts in the infamous wringer this way.

[NH_Bulldog]

Look up the Ford Towing and Payload guide,. The 2.7L isn’t enough truck for what you are looking to tow. I have a 2015 F150 Supercrew with 3.5L Twin Turbo and Heavy Duty tow package (17,100 lb GCWR and 11,700 lb max trailer weight). I can tow our Passport 240BH with ease, but your set-up isn’t capable to safely tow what you are looking at. A 3/4 ton set-up would be better suited for your situation.

[hornet28]

I have a neighbor who for years believed in using small motor 1/2 tons for pulling his 33' Airstream triple axle. His wife told mine they didn't move if there was any wind because of the instability. I tried multiple times to convince him he needed a bigger truck but he wouldn't listen and he chided me for having larger trucks with big motors. Well in 07 he bought a Chevy CC 2500 diesel and after the first tow admitted he should've listened to me years before

[travelin texans]

Look up the Ford Towing and Payload guide,. The 2.7L isn’t enough truck for what you are looking to tow. I have a 2015 F150 Supercrew with 3.5L Twin Turbo and Heavy Duty tow package (17,100 lb GCWR and 11,700 lb max trailer weight). I can tow our Passport 240BH with ease, but your set-up isn’t capable to safely tow what you are looking at. A 3/4 ton set-up would be better suited for your situation.

Even with your "Heavy Duty tow package" you'll exceed that trucks payload long before you ever reach those max weights.

[NH_Bulldog]

Even with your "Heavy Duty tow package" you'll exceed that trucks payload long before you ever reach those max weights.

It was only meant to illustrate that I have plenty of truck to tow what I am towing with some to spare (and yes, we have ample payload capacity after all the necessary weight deductions based on our specific needs). As long as we have been doing this, we have always sized the truck to the trailer we were towing or intending to tow.

[pdaniel]

My father was really good at making bad news seem reasonable. So I will keep my news brief. You can calculate all you want, but your truck will be overloaded from day one. Don’t even consider throwing dirt bike or ATVs on it. Get your tow vehicle situation resolved first. Buy the strongest tow vehicle you can afford first, then consider your trailer. Leave yourself a big fat cushion in case your needs change. People laugh sometimes when they see me towing my Cougar half ton towable with my diesel super duty but it tows my trailer with ease and confidence. Truck first, trailer second!! Good luck.
I had the same looks with my Cougar X-lite and a Ram 3500.

[pdaniel]

I have a neighbor who for years believed in using small motor 1/2 tons for pulling his 33' Airstream triple axle. His wife told mine they didn't move if there was any wind because of the instability. I tried multiple times to convince him he needed a bigger truck but he wouldn't listen and he chided me for having larger trucks with big motors. Well in 07 he bought a Chevy CC 2500 diesel and after the first tow admitted he should've listened to me years before
After towing a 36 foot Cougar tongue pull with a 2002 Ram with the appropriate WD hitch and dealing with wind and turbulence from semis passing me I upgraded to a Ram with TSC. Now when I see people such as your neighbor with TVs that are clearly overloaded and should not be pulling the trailer they are I see disaster on the horizon.

[66joej]

I had the same looks with my Cougar X-lite and a Ram 3500.

Had those looks pulling this 14' TT with the diesel. Rig next to us was indicative of the size of RVs in this park. Also had a 5er at the time but got tired of explaining so we laughed along with the others.

[linux3]

We stopped at Candy Hill campground in Va. They were having a Newmar RV gathering.
When we went for a walk even we thought "What's that little TT doing there".
We are pretty much the smallest trailer anywhere we go.
But it pulls nice.

[JRTJH]

After towing a 36 foot Cougar tongue pull with a 2002 Ram with the appropriate WD hitch and dealing with wind and turbulence from semis passing me I upgraded to a Ram with TSC. Now when I see people such as your neighbor with TVs that are clearly overloaded and should not be pulling the trailer they are I see disaster on the horizon.

Your comments illustrate a point I've made several times in other threads about this topic. There are way too many "brand new RV owners" who, for the first time, sit in the driver's seat of a half ton truck with a 30+ foot trailer behind them. "Fight" the steering, constantly on edge because of the "wake effect" of passing trucks and sway from crosswinds. They come to realize that "it's just the way towing will be" as they arrive at their daily destination, "Exhausted and still have to set up their trailer"..... Over time, it becomes "accepted" for them as they have never known how easy trailering is with the proper equipment. They believe, "The dealer told me I had more than enough truck, so this must just be the way it's supposed to tow."

Then, they "buy up" in tow vehicles and make statements about "If I'd have only known" or "If I'd have listened when I first started towing."

I've said over and over, "You just don't know what you don't know." Some take that as "What did he say??????" while those who have experienced "bad/terrible towing" and "easy towing" know exactly what it means......

Trying to get someone who "thinks their rig tows great" to understand that it doesn't, when they have NO other towing to compare..... Well, it's an uphill battle to convince them, but eventually, a "little light starts to glow"......

YMMV

[GMcKenzie]

Well in 07 he bought a Chevy CC 2500 diesel and after the first tow admitted he should've listened to me years before

3/4 ton diesels seem to me to be the worst of both worlds. Limited increase in payload, limiting the weight you can pull, while being as expensive as a 1 ton with a decent payload.

I know they will tow easier than I can with my 1/2 ton, but with a payload rating over 2K, I'm pretty close to the payload limit of a 3/4 ton diesel.

Just my thoughts.

[cookinwitdiesel]

3/4 ton diesels seem to me to be the worst of both worlds. Limited increase in payload, limiting the weight you can pull, while being as expensive as a 1 ton with a decent payload.

I know they will tow easier than I can with my 1/2 ton, but with a payload rating over 2K, I'm pretty close to the payload limit of a 3/4 ton diesel.

Just my thoughts.

This! I have been steering anyone who will listen to a 1 ton over a 3/4 ton when they are on the fence.

It will pull a ton better than a 1/2 ton and be much more stable, but the limited extra payload is a let down.

[notanlines]

I believe it was a now infamous Texan member who once asked "Aren't you tired of driving around the neighborhood making a sound like a diesel?":D

[Logan X]

3/4 ton diesels seem to me to be the worst of both worlds. Limited increase in payload, limiting the weight you can pull, while being as expensive as a 1 ton with a decent payload.

I know they will tow easier than I can with my 1/2 ton, but with a payload rating over 2K, I'm pretty close to the payload limit of a 3/4 ton diesel.

Just my thoughts.

I think there are other factors to consider besides payload. For example, my 3/4 ton weighs more than my 27 foot trailer so the tail is not going to wag the dog. Also, my 3/4 ton has a longer wheelbase than a 1/2 ton, making it more stable. The Diesel engine has a diesel exhaust brake that makes going down long grades very easy. My 3/4 ton is also my daily driver so I appreciate the softer ride, when empty, than a 1 ton would give me.

I am very happy with the size trailer I have, and I could easily tow a longer trailer. I have no desire or need to move to a 1 ton. I see your point, but I think a 3/4 ton is far superior to a 1/2 ton for towing. The only reason to get a 1 ton is if you are pulling a fifth wheel. And then you may as well get a dually.

Just my opinion.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Depending on the state as well, a 3/4 ton may not require the drivers license endorsements a 1 ton would due to the GVWRs - also property tax differences due to the same.

I am just glad there is a healthy market for 3/4 ton diesels, for when I sell mine and get a 3500 :D

[JRTJH]

To add a bit of "humor" while expressing some thoughts, maybe this will make sense to the "1/2 ton/3/4 ton/1 ton" discussion.

Many people think that "upgrading" to a 3/4 ton is like "trading in your miniature poodle for a beagle" and "upgrading to a 1 ton is like "trading in your miniature poodle for a Doberman".... It's NOT !!!!!

A more accurate description would be "trading in your rabbit for a beagle" or "trading in your cat for a Doberman"....

While all the "examples" have fur, 4 feet, eat food and produce waste from it, they aren't the same, not made alike, don't "perform" alike and don't respond alike. Considering that 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks are the same because they have 4 wheels, rear axles and steering wheels is a similar comparison... They aren't the same kind of vehicle!!!!!

Things like "semi-floating axles" vs "full floating axles", heavier, stronger frames, different front suspension design and many other differences make 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton trucks as different as cats and dogs (or rabbits).....

As previously stated, the "1 ton" designation, in many areas makes owning one difficult or costly. Many HOA's prohibit "1 ton vehicles" in driveways (classified as commercial vehicles) and many local government agencies, city, county and state, consider them as "extra revenue generators" and charge registration/licensing to match. Many insurance companies follow the "local government's lead" and "upcharge insurance rates as well.

So, there's a "niche" for 3/4 ton trucks and there's a market for them, depending on whether they will fit your needs and save you "operating expenses" while doing the job you need to do. It's not always about "bigger is better" (which in towing, is a relevant and accurate statement for most)....

[travelin texans]

It was only meant to illustrate that I have plenty of truck to tow what I am towing with some to spare (and yes, we have ample payload capacity after all the necessary weight deductions based on our specific needs). As long as we have been doing this, we have always sized the truck to the trailer we were towing or intending to tow.

Also just making a point!
The "max tow" rating means nothing if the payload is exceeded, which WILL happen long before you reach max tow weight.

[GMcKenzie]

My next vehicle will likely be a 3/4 ton. But I'm not looking at a diesel. I'm sticking with gas as I can't justify the added expense of buying and running a diesel for what I do. So I'll be happy with a 3/4 ton. I guess if I found a 1 ton gas, I'd be happy with it as well. I had a 3/4 ton diesel, but won't do that again. It doesn't fit my non-towing need. I have a 3km commute and put on less than 10K a year (2015 truck has 33,000 kms on it).

So, my rant was just about 3/4 ton diesels, not 3/4 ton in general :)

[penra]

One issue that is often overlooked is the weight of the tow vehicle vs that which is being towed. Another is the cross sectional area of the trailer - this is important as the larger it is, the more it will be impacted by cross winds or other large passing vehicles. Any impact on the trailer will result in it pushing/pulling the tow vehicle as well if they are not well matched in size/weight. A 1/2 ton truck usually tops out around the high 5000s in weight. A 3/4 ton or 1 ton is usually 8000 pounds heavy. That difference in weight provides a lot of stability for the overall rig. Additionally, the 1/2 tons are available with a "short bed" which shortens the wheel base reducing stability compared to the HD/SD trucks that have the "standard" or "long" beds and accompanying wheelbase.

Really good points. Is the trailer pushing the tow vehicle down the hills? Not a good feeling.

[ctbruce]

Maybe I'm just different. I've been accused of worse in the past! I love my 3500 HD Diesel and use it as my daily driver. In my mind, I will never go back to anything else in the future. To each his/her own.

[Gegrad]

My next vehicle will likely be a 3/4 ton. But I'm not looking at a diesel. I'm sticking with gas as I can't justify the added expense of buying and running a diesel for what I do. So I'll be happy with a 3/4 ton. I guess if I found a 1 ton gas, I'd be happy with it as well. I had a 3/4 ton diesel, but won't do that again. It doesn't fit my non-towing need. I have a 3km commute and put on less than 10K a year (2015 truck has 33,000 kms on it).


Ditto here, that is very similar to my situation. We will be getting a minivan in the next few months, so I will switch to commuting in our current car, and the truck will be used on weekends. (We had been previously employed together, so we could commute together in the car).

[Hideout77]

Any body have thoughts on using 2010 Nissan Armada platinum tow package E rated tires equipped cgvw 15,000lbs tow cap rated at 9,100lbs to tow a hideout 30ft weighing in at 5000 lbs.
Equalizers wd hitch

[cookinwitdiesel]

I have a hard time seeing how a 30ft Hideout is only 5000 pounds. My 28 footer is 7100 empty.

[Logan X]

Any body have thoughts on using 2010 Nissan Armada platinum tow package E rated tires equipped cgvw 15,000lbs tow cap rated at 9,100lbs to tow a hideout 30ft weighing in at 5000 lbs.
Equalizers wd hitch

Just off of the top of my head, I think any SUV will have a hard time towing a 30 foot trailer.

My Hideout (24 foot box) weighs 5700 pounds dry and 7600 pounds loaded.

[Northofu1]

My 30.5' trailer is 5800# empty

[MarkEHansen]

Empty weights are irrelevant. You don't tow it empty.

[Northofu1]

I don't tow it Maxed out either :)

[Hideout77]

Hideout LHS Series M-25 LHSWE Specs
Length (ft-in 29' 3''
Base Weight (lbs 4868
Carrying Capacity (lbs 2632
And my CAT ticket
Steer axel 2800
Drive axel 3560
Trailer axel 4760
GW 11,120

[cookinwitdiesel]

Missed the LHS part ;) Was going to say, that must be different construction than mine.

We would call that a 25' trailer I think.

[Logan X]

Any body have thoughts on using 2010 Nissan Armada platinum tow package E rated tires equipped cgvw 15,000lbs tow cap rated at 9,100lbs to tow a hideout 30ft weighing in at 5000 lbs.
Equalizers wd hitch

I just did some quick research on the Armada. According to Nissan, the maximum tongue weight you can put on the hitch is 900 pounds. As others have pointed out, a 30 foot Hideout will weigh more than 5000 pounds. Probably more like 8000 pounds. The tongue weight is roughly 12% of the total trailer weight. 12% of 8000 is 960 pounds. I don’t think you receiver hitch is strong enough for a trailer that big.

That much tongue weight will eat up a lot of your payload capacity. You also have to stay within the payloa capacity. It’s located on a sticker inside the drivers door. “All cargo and occupants cannot exceed xxxxpounds”

Also, it has a short wheel base at 123 inches. A short wheelbase SUV will get manhandled by a thirty foot trailer.

Here is the Nissan tow guide:

https://www.nissanusa.com/pdf/techpubs/2010/2010NissanTowingGuide.pdf

Let us know if you have questions about the weights and capabilities. We are here to help!

EDIT-you were posting your numbers as I was typing this. When you went to the scale were you loaded for camping? If your trailer is that light when you are fully loaded your numbers may be ok. I still think the trailer is too long for a short wheelbase SUV.

[Hideout77]

I didn’t know apparently from bumper to bumper isn’t how to measure TT length.
Everyone says that it would be a 25ft but the nada guide List 29.3ft length.
But the weights if my math is correct even fully loaded maxed out I’m still under by 1000lbs

[MarkEHansen]

Perhaps not, but to be safe, you should do your calculations based on the GVW. Otherwise, you can prepare the trailer for camping and then weigh it.

[Hideout77]

15,100 GCWR for the Armada.
Max tongue weight 910lbs
2010 ARMADA TOWING DATA
Engine Type
5.6L V8
3.357 gear ratio
390 foot lbs of torque
320 hp

[Logan X]

The max tow number they give is for marketing. You take the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) for your tow vehicle and subtract it from the gross combined weight rating (GCWR). That number is the maximum your trailer can weigh.

I believe your GVWR is 7300 pounds and the GCWR is 15100 pounds.

15100-7300 =7800 pounds. If those numbers are correct 7800 pounds would be the max you could tow.

Below is a link to a video that does a good job explaining all of this.

https://youtu.be/qwFLOBrADBs

[Hideout77]

Thank you for the reply Logan so My math is correct and I am within and actually under even with the trailer loaded.
Or did I miss something with my CAT Scales numbers?

[ctbruce]

Thank you for the reply Logan so My math is correct and I am within and actually under even with the trailer loaded.
Or did I miss something with my CAT Scales numbers?Use the capacities on your vehicle stickers, not the manufacturer brochures. That is the first and most important step. The brochures are for a vehicle that almost none of us would own or drive.

[Hideout77]

All the stickers match the towing guides listed by Nissan.

[Logan X]

Thank you for the reply Logan so My math is correct and I am within and actually under even with the trailer loaded.
Or did I miss something with my CAT Scales numbers?

I would need to see your GVWR and payload numbers to know if you are overweight or not. Those numbers are on a sticker on the drivers side door.

You may be under the GCWR but you also need to be under your GVWR.

[Hideout77]

Steer axel 2800
Drive axel 3560
Trailer axel 4760
GW 11120

[Logan X]

Steer axel 2800
Drive axel 3560
Trailer axel 4760
GW 11120


There should be stickers in the inside of the drivers door. One is yellow and says all cargo and occupants must not exceed xxxx pounds. That is your available payload number.

Another sticker, the FMVSS label says what the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR) is.

I would need those numbers to know if you were overweight or not.

Also, were you loaded for camping when you went to the scale. We’re all of the occupants in the vehicle?

[Hideout77]

The CAT scales ticket was full propane both tanks and about half the gear and gas tanks filled up. And didn’t have the wife and 8yr old on board
GVWR 7150
GAWR 3399
GAWR RR 4299
The sticker also says the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1543 pounds
And that is just all the information that is on the stickers besides tire psi

[Logan X]

Steer axel 2800
Drive axel 3560
Trailer axel 4760
GW 11120

As I’m looking at your scale numbers and the information I found on line, I believe you are within your towing capacity (only if the numbers you posted were from when you were loaded for camping). If you weren’t fully loaded when you went to the scale (no water in the fresh water tank, no passengers or camping gear in the truck, etc) you will need to weigh again when you are fully loaded and those numbers would need to be checked against your GVWR and GCWR.

Please keep in mind my earlier posts about the length of your trailer compared to the short wheelbase of an Armada. It may not make for a very enjoyable towing experience. A travel trailer is like a big sail behind you and will be affected by cross winds and semis passing you etc.

Good luck!

[rjrelander]

All the numbers seem to add up. Others on here can chime in on the length though. With "lighter" GVWR vehicles (half ton trucks, heavy SUVs), even with decent sway control, there is some magic trailer length where the "sail" effect takes over and the physics get wonky. Longer wheelbase helps to some extent but from what I understand, extra mass on the tow vehicle might be needed for longer trailers, even if they are light.

[EDIT] Lol. Logan types faster than I do.

[Logan X]

The CAT scales ticket was full propane both tanks and about half the gear and gas tanks filled up. And didn’t have the wife and 8yr old on board
GVWR 7150
GAWR 3399
GAWR RR 4299
The sticker also says the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1543 pounds
And that is just all the information that is on the stickers besides tire psi

Based on those numbers I think you are under your limits, but not by a lot. If you tow with that set up it may feel ok or it may feel like a “white knuckle” experience.

Your GVWR is 7150

When you went to the scale the gross vehicle weight was 6360.

Add the other passengers, 300 lbs

Add some more gear plus misc, 300 lbs

6360+300+300= 6960. That doesn’t give you a lot of extra payload capacity. 7100-6960=140 lbs spare payload

[Logan X]

All the numbers seem to add up. Others on here can chime in on the length though. With "lighter" GVWR vehicles (half ton trucks, heavy SUVs), even with decent sway control, there is some magic trailer length where the "sail" effect takes over and the physics get wonky. Longer wheelbase helps to some extent but from what I understand, extra mass on the tow vehicle might be needed for longer trailers, even if they are light.

[EDIT] Lol. Logan types faster than I do.

Haha, yep typing at the same time.

[sourdough]

Here are the specs per Keystone on the Hideout:

https://www.keystonerv.com/travel-trailers/hideout/floorplans/25lhswe-travel-trailer/

It's a 7500lb. gvw trailer and 29'3" length ball to bumper.

I'm just going to make a couple of observations;

A 29-30' trailer is not a good companion for an Armada. It's a vehicle meant for "towing" a large family.

If I have interpreted right, the truck weighs 6360 at the scales vs a 7150 gvw. That was without the family, luggage, toys etc. so when fully loaded it will be pretty close to bumping max gvw.....with a 29-30' trailer behind it - it's not going to be easy to control in adverse conditions. And, if you deduct a 15% safety cushion from the gvw you would have 6077 lbs. :( And....the trailer is not fully loaded either.

Then there's the receiver.....and completely maxing out/overloading the suspension on a 9 year old SUV with a 29-30' trailer sailing along behind....and,.....and....

IMO it's not a good idea even if you could squeak by the numbers realistically, which I doubt. Trying to "go light" with an 8 year old on any length trip is a pipe dream - especially when you have all the room in the trailer.

[Logan X]

Here are the specs per Keystone on the Hideout:

https://www.keystonerv.com/travel-trailers/hideout/floorplans/25lhswe-travel-trailer/

It's a 7500lb. gvw trailer and 29'3" length ball to bumper.

I'm just going to make a couple of observations;

A 29-30' trailer is not a good companion for an Armada. It's a vehicle meant for "towing" a large family.

If I have interpreted right, the truck weighs 6360 at the scales vs a 7150 gvw. That was without the family, luggage, toys etc. so when fully loaded it will be pretty close to bumping max gvw.....with a 29-30' trailer behind it - it's not going to be easy to control in adverse conditions. And, if you deduct a 15% safety cushion from the gvw you would have 6077 lbs. :( And....the trailer is not fully loaded either.

Then there's the receiver.....and completely maxing out/overloading the suspension on a 9 year old SUV with a 29-30' trailer sailing along behind....and,.....and....

IMO it's not a good idea even if you could squeak by the numbers realistically, which I doubt. Trying to "go light" with an 8 year old on any length trip is a pipe dream - especially when you have all the room in the trailer.

I agree with Danny, he said it better than I could. I would not be comfortable towing that combination.

[Hideout77]

Well thank you for the thoughts. I think I’m going to be ok pulling the TT as long as I’m mindful of my speed and other things. Just ran it on a 120 mile round trip to Casa Grand and back in 40mph gust. Got a little push from the wind but no sway issues. Super happy I upgraded to drilled and slotted rotors though. Idiot people break checking.... time to install the dash cam next! I am liking the keystone TT. They seem decently made.

[sourdough]

Well thank you for the thoughts. I think I’m going to be ok pulling the TT as long as I’m mindful of my speed and other things. Just ran it on a 120 mile round trip to Casa Grand and back in 40mph gust. Got a little push from the wind but no sway issues. Super happy I upgraded to drilled and slotted rotors though. Idiot people break checking.... time to install the dash cam next! I am liking the keystone TT. They seem decently made.


And just a parting thought for you;

I used to visit all my employees around "my realm" and would at times ask to attend the safety meetings of my employees. My folks drove all kinds of vehicles, pulling all kinds of things from sedans to vans to large trucks/trailers.

At those meetings you have folks of all kinds; young guys, older guys, cautious folks, the "I don't care folks" etc. I tried to impress the following on them simply because I was concerned about their safety knowing what they had to do every day;

You can ignore the safety limits all you want; and you know, most times you get by just fine....hey, no problem, all those naysayers don't know squat. That will generally be the rule...BUT, when "stuff" happens, here's the deal:

I've been in 4 situations in my life where I was not supposed to live; by ignorance, arrogance, "being invincible", or just not caring. EVERY single time there was no "reset" button, no "whoa, I'm going to pull it down" or "I'll redirect" or "I'll just.....". None of that. It happens; right here; right now. How do you know everything is OK? You woke up, in an ambulance, lying there by yourself, someone pulling a door open for you.... Before I "got sense" in 2 of those occasions there were dead people around me. Thankfully not my family - they were never involved in some of those situations.

I told folks repeatedly that you can always "stretch" the limits; you can always "ignore" the rules, but someday it will catch you - and you can't "stop" it when it does. It's on YOU.

I survived the situations and by 35 became very aware of what I was doing - generally. The situations above happened to me alone....because that was the way it was; in retrospect I probably put my family in danger during those times as well but was spared.

When I "grew up", became more "responsible" (knowledgeable)I put the welfare of the family above my "I need/want to have".

IMO pushing a vehicle and trailer combo to the limits or over is simply a callous disregard for the safety of yourself, your family and the rest of the folks that share the road with you - and with an 8 year old.

Of course this is JMO and YMMV. I only wish the best for you and your welfare; including your family.

[Kanadakid]

This is a good explanation 1