truck height vs Fifth Wheel Height - help!

[turbo]

HI all - appreciate your replies here! I just picked up a 2019 F350 SRW Diesel 4x4 and looking at swapping my old travel trailer for a 2019 Cougar 315RLS this weekend. I note that the height of the rear of the new truck (top of tailgate) is exactly 60" from the ground, which is 3-4 inches higher than my prior 2015 F150. How do 5th wheels accomodate the extra height of the larger tow vehicles? Will there still be about 6" clearance between the truck bed and the Cougar? Anyone have a similar combo that can share their experience? thanks in advance
Turbo

[jsb5717]

Been there. I went through the same thing when I bought my newer RAM 4x4. My guess is that the Cougar will ride a little high to the front. A little high is pretty common. The dealer should be able to help you.

You might calculate the actual height of your hitch plate and go measure the plate height of the Cougar as it sits level. That should tell you how close it will be.

[JRTJH]

There hasn't been any "significant" problem reported by members who have bought a "new model truck" and hitched it to an "older model trailer". Some, as stated in the previous post, have reported reduced clearance between the bed rails and the trailer, but nobody has reported an inability to tow because of a reduced clearance caused by increased height of the new trucks.

It looks to me, that with the softer, longer springs on the new Fords, that with the weight of the fifth wheel pin, the springs "sag" enough to put the actual hitch height of the truck at nearly the same height as the older model Ford trucks. I don't think you'll have a significant problem with clearance, possibly an inch, maybe two of reduced bed/trailer clearance, otherwise, it's pretty much the same as previous models.

[jsb5717]

Actually, John, it looks like your personal combo is similar to the OP's. Does your Cougar ride relatively level behind your Ford? Just curious...

[turbo]

really appreciate this info....looks like i will be going to the dealer tomorrow to finalize this ...thx all and still interested in hearing from others with a similar combo.

[chuckster57]

Depending on which hitch you have, you can raise/lower the hitch and/or the pin box to get the correct height.

[turbo]

Depending on which hitch you have, you can raise/lower the hitch and/or the pin box to get the correct height.

thanks for the note but the issue is ensuring enough space to work with between the top of the truck box and the bottom of the 5th wheel, regardless of pin placement. Truck is 60" high unloaded, and dealer just advised Cougar is at 62.5, leaving 2.5" wiggle room. is that sufficient? seems tight to me but not sure how much a 5er typically (or can) tilt during driving and getting into sites. thx!
Turbo

[chuckster57]

That may be an issue. Maybe consider installing CRE or MorRyde suspension as it may raise the trailer up enough.

[jsb5717]

As John noted earlier the truck will also come down a little with the pin weight. Also you will still set your hitch height to make sure you've got the 6"-ish clearance needed between the truck and coach. Whatever slope that creates in how the coach rides is what you'll have to deal with. Still shouldn't be unmanagable. A lot of rigs go down the road a little nose-high.

[Canonman]

thanks for the note but the issue is ensuring enough space to work with between the top of the truck box and the bottom of the 5th wheel, regardless of pin placement. Truck is 60" high unloaded, and dealer just advised Cougar is at 62.5, leaving 2.5" wiggle room. is that sufficient? seems tight to me but not sure how much a 5er typically (or can) tilt during driving and getting into sites. thx!
Turbo

Most folks agree that 5 to 6 inches is the minimum clearance needed between the 5th wheel overhang and the bedrails of your truck.
https://www.etrailer.com/question-144392.html
If your FWD truck is like ours, you will be riding a little nose high. I wish we rode more level, but supposedly the trailer suspension can accommodate this. Others may have more/better info regarding the suspension being able to compensate for not being exactly level.

[E Rod]

I have a 2018 F350 SRW Long Bed as well. Keep in mind not only are they taller but also the bed side walls are an inch taller or deep per say. I had a 2016 F350 SRW and the 5er rode level . I had to adjust the hitch one notch higher to keep the same clearance between the bed and 5er so it may ride a little higher than before. Mine does but not by much.

[rhagfo]

Well 60" is about average for HD pickups Tailgate height. I would measure the new 5er on a level surface with the 5er level. Measure to the bottom of the under bedroom area, if 63" or better you should be in good shape.

[manonfire1978]

you could always flip the axles on the trailer to get a few more inches to ride level.

[DEDonaldson]

The issue of pairing a 5th wheel with a "modern" truck (in my case a 2017 F250 Lariat, short bed) was a definite problem as a result of inadequate communication and conflicting consumer interests for the auto and RV industries
The following table lists Ford truck bed rail heights for various years:
2008 - 2010: 54.5"
2011 - 2014: 55.1"
2015 - 2016: 56.0"
2017 - 2018: 59.2"
Older 5ers have overhangs in the 55" range while many of the newer ones fall into the 60" area. There are a few 5ers that have overhangs higher than 60" but you need to search them out. The overhang value is not listed in RV specs so you need to actually level the unit and measure the overhang of a unit you are interested in.
I have spoken to truck and RV dealers and manufacturers. Truck manufacturers concede that trucks are taller primarily due to the look factor. RV dealers generally do not acknowledge there is any problem. Dealers will tell you that there will be "no problem." RV manufacturers are aware of the issue but solutions have been slow in coming due to engineering limitations resulting from (primarily height limits) specifications imposed by governmental agencies. Some manufacturers have sought solutions which make their 5th wheels just squeak by without dangerous and costly solutions such solutions as flipping axles, building sub frames, etc. Some manufacturers now put axles below the springs to start with.
To make a long story short, the "solution" to my problem was as follows:
1. Demco Hijacker Autoslide Hitch (DM8550037) installed with under bed mount (DM8551009) and set to lowest height 15 1/2". This hitch was selected not only because it was an autoslide, but because it provided 3 vertical adjustments (which other autoslides did not). Note that the hitch needed to be installed with under bed rails. ISRs would have made the lowest vertical hitch height 1-1/2 higher at the lowest setting. This would have resulted in a nose high configuration.
2. 5er that fits perfectly (or just about level) is a Keystone Sprinter Copper Canyon model M-273FWRET. The overhang on this unit is 65" high at level! Imagine my surprise!
When connected to the truck, the approximate 1-1/2" drop of the bed from pin weight puts the overhang 6-1/2 inches over the side rails in a near perfect level.
I hope this summary and my trials help those of you purchasing a newer truck with bed rails near 60" high. Be prepared to do a lot of searching to get everything to fit. If you already own a 5er and it has 60" or less overhang, be prepared for nose up issues. If you decide to get a replacement 5er to go with your new truck, don't let the RV dealers assure you that whatever 5er you pick will "work." Insist on (or be sure to) hook up and check before signing on the dotted line.

[rauman84341]

In 2017 I replaced my 2009 F350 SRW Diesel 4x4 with a new 2017 F350 SRW before the purchased I was very worried that the 2019 with the new body style would be too high for my fifth wheel a 2009 Montana 3150 RL after measuring several ways. I purchased a Champion fifth wheel hitch mounted it in the middle holes so I could go higher and hooked up, everything worked great and it is one of the best setups I have ever had.
The measurement from the ground to top of tailgate is 58 ½ inches on the 2009, I have 6 ½ inches clearance between the bed rail and the trailer and never had a problem. The Ford dealer actually let me put my hitch in the new truck and hook up my trailer.

[turbo]

In 2017 I replaced my 2009 F350 SRW Diesel 4x4 with a new 2017 F350 SRW before the purchased I was very worried that the 2019 with the new body style would be too high for my fifth wheel a 2009 Montana 3150 RL after measuring several ways. I purchased a Champion fifth wheel hitch mounted it in the middle holes so I could go higher and hooked up, everything worked great and it is one of the best setups I have ever had.
The measurement from the ground to top of tailgate is 58 ½ inches on the 2009, I have 6 ½ inches clearance between the bed rail and the trailer and never had a problem. The Ford dealer actually let me put my hitch in the new truck and hook up my trailer.
Thanks this is very comforting as I pick up the cougar in 2 weeks. Also getting a b&w hitch as recommended by the dealer for my config. I have 20 inch tires on my 2019 f350 - are yours also 20's? Interestingly I almost bought the same Montana, it's beautiful, but thought it was quite heavy based on the specs and my truck is SRW. Thx

[Camper Dog]

I was told to get your new 5th wheel as level as you can unhitched. Measure from the Ground to the king pin, then measure from ground to the truck bed floor. Subtract the two and that number is where your hitch height should be.

[turbo]

HI all - quick update - picked up my 2019 Cougar 315RLS this week from CAMPING IN STYLE in Whitby ON, and a B&W 20k manual slider with my new 2019 F350 SRW. Was worried about it being nose high, not enough room between fifth wheel and truck bed, and not enough room between cab window and slider. Very happy to say dealer did a great job on all fronts, more than adequate clearances and she sits level. Kudos to the team at camping in style. Camping this weekend!
thx for prior advice/replies here.
Turbo

[Camper Dog]

That's Great, enjoy!!!

[azisme]

The issue of pairing a 5th wheel with a "modern" truck (in my case a 2017 F250 Lariat, short bed) was a definite problem as a result of inadequate communication and conflicting consumer interests for the auto and RV industries
The following table lists Ford truck bed rail heights for various years:
2008 - 2010: 54.5"
2011 - 2014: 55.1"
2015 - 2016: 56.0"
2017 - 2018: 59.2"
Older 5ers have overhangs in the 55" range while many of the newer ones fall into the 60" area. There are a few 5ers that have overhangs higher than 60" but you need to search them out. The overhang value is not listed in RV specs so you need to actually level the unit and measure the overhang of a unit you are interested in.
I have spoken to truck and RV dealers and manufacturers. Truck manufacturers concede that trucks are taller primarily due to the look factor. RV dealers generally do not acknowledge there is any problem. Dealers will tell you that there will be "no problem." RV manufacturers are aware of the issue but solutions have been slow in coming due to engineering limitations resulting from (primarily height limits) specifications imposed by governmental agencies. Some manufacturers have sought solutions which make their 5th wheels just squeak by without dangerous and costly solutions such solutions as flipping axles, building sub frames, etc. Some manufacturers now put axles below the springs to start with.
To make a long story short, the "solution" to my problem was as follows:
1. Demco Hijacker Autoslide Hitch (DM8550037) installed with under bed mount (DM8551009) and set to lowest height 15 1/2". This hitch was selected not only because it was an autoslide, but because it provided 3 vertical adjustments (which other autoslides did not). Note that the hitch needed to be installed with under bed rails. ISRs would have made the lowest vertical hitch height 1-1/2 higher at the lowest setting. This would have resulted in a nose high configuration.
2. 5er that fits perfectly (or just about level) is a Keystone Sprinter Copper Canyon model M-273FWRET. The overhang on this unit is 65" high at level! Imagine my surprise!
When connected to the truck, the approximate 1-1/2" drop of the bed from pin weight puts the overhang 6-1/2 inches over the side rails in a near perfect level.
I hope this summary and my trials help those of you purchasing a newer truck with bed rails near 60" high. Be prepared to do a lot of searching to get everything to fit. If you already own a 5er and it has 60" or less overhang, be prepared for nose up issues. If you decide to get a replacement 5er to go with your new truck, don't let the RV dealers assure you that whatever 5er you pick will "work." Insist on (or be sure to) hook up and check before signing on the dotted line.


DEDonaldson (https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/member.php?u=24420), Thanks for your very informative post. What year is your M-273FWRET? I have viewed the 2013 model floor plan online and like it a lot.


I have a 2017 F350 Lariat SB with the puck system along with a 2002 Nash 27-5L that is about 6-8" too short.

[rhagfo]

HI all - appreciate your replies here! I just picked up a 2019 F350 SRW Diesel 4x4 and looking at swapping my old travel trailer for a 2019 Cougar 315RLS this weekend. I note that the height of the rear of the new truck (top of tailgate) is exactly 60" from the ground, which is 3-4 inches higher than my prior 2015 F150. How do 5th wheels accomodate the extra height of the larger tow vehicles? Will there still be about 6" clearance between the truck bed and the Cougar? Anyone have a similar combo that can share their experience? thanks in advance
Turbo

Well it is 60" unloaded, there will be some squat once you place the weight of the pin on it.
Sometimes it is better top be lucky that smart (I did measure both before) the height difference between our old 2001 Ram 2500 4X4 and the new to us 2016 Ram 3500 DRW was about 1":D. Now the sidewall was about 1" or so taller, well we got a picture frame adapter for our hitch to use the puck system and the result was no change necessary. The tailgate height on the 3500 is 58".

This is a comparison of the 2001 to the 2016, same 2005 Keystone Sprinter Copper Canyon.

https://i.imgur.com/clP6r2u.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bIVQHFv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5lwxP1V.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/EG7O4pZ.jpg

[Aron Julian]

My truck height is 63 1/2 inches from ground to top of bed rails is this too high for a fifth wheel please help I can’t get a straight answer from anyone

[jsb5717]

Hi Aron, welcome aboard! That's a difficult question to answer without more information. What truck do you have? Someone here will have the same truck and can advise. What 5er are you looking at? There will be a variable in the pin height depending on model and year.

People are pulling 5ers of all models with a wide range of truck makes, models, and years. Typically, you will want a stock truck, not lifted, and without oversized wheels/tires, in order to fit under a 5er.

Give us the details and you will get some help.

[notanlines]

Aron, youve got some lift to the truck, probably in excess of 5”. Lifted trucks dont take to fivers very well. Fill us in on the tv and rv specifics and we’ll go from there.

[Northofu1]

Hi Aron and :wlcm:
First I would level the 5th wheel, take a measurement from the bottom of the over hang to the ground. You know the truck is 63 1/2" to the top of the rails, once you subtract the truck measurement from the 5er measurement your remainder should tell you what is left, I think 6" to 8" is good. Then I would hook up the trailer and get a visual once the pin weight is fully on the truck, this could drop the unladen measurement by a few inches.
Use a good reliable level to ensure the trailer is still level.

Your pin box should have some +/- room for adjustment if you're slightly off.
This if nothing else will let you know where you stand, as finding exact measurements from other rv'ers will be different from yours.

Good luck :)

[Aron Julian]

This is Aron my truck is a 2018 2500 Denali 4x4 it’s 63 1/2 inches from ground to top of bed rails is this too high for a fifth wheel I’m thinking about doing RV transportation for a living and can’t get any answers please help me

[JRTJH]

This is Aron my truck is a 2018 2500 Denali 4x4 it’s 63 1/2 inches from ground to top of bed rails is this too high for a fifth wheel I’m thinking about doing RV transportation for a living and can’t get any answers please help me

First, with a 2500 (3/4 ton diesel) you're going to be critically limited when it comes to commercial towing of nearly any fifth wheel. As a "commercial operator" you will be required to enter every DOT inspection facility for weight/safety inspections. I'm guessing the first time you tow a fifth wheel longer than about 30' across the scales, you're going to be "shut down and told to call your dispatcher for instructions on whether to unhitch and come home or stay with the trailer until another driver arrives to pick up the trailer"....

I don't know of any fifth wheel commercial delivery driver that's towing fifth wheels with a 250/2500 diesel. Now, if you're considering delivery of "conventional travel trailers" (with a tongue hitch) that's a different story....

[Aron Julian]

I have a class A CDL so I’m not sure about that and I’ve seen plenty of 2500 and 250s pulling fifth wheels both private and commercial

[travelin texans]

I have a class A CDL so I’m not sure about that and I’ve seen plenty of 2500 and 250s pulling fifth wheels both private and commercial

Because you've seen it doesn't make it safe or legal doing it commercially.
I've seen folks that don't have a clue hauling 5th wheels with 1/2 ton trucks, they're not anywhere near legal or safe doing so regardless of what drivers license they may have.
Most rv delivery/hotshot drivers are using 1 ton duallies & typically, probably legally required, have placards with the allowable weights posted on the truck.
A class A CDL WILL be mandatory, as will stopping at ALL weigh stations & commercial check points, some of which you could be camped out in til someone with a suitable tow vehicle arrives if you're overweight.
I agree you're going to be limited to hauling TTs rather than most any 5th wheel with a 3/4 ton truck.

[Camp CA]

Been there also. If you buy a height adjustable fifth wheel hitch, take measurements and adjust the height accordingly. When I went from a F250 4WD to a F350 2WD I had to increase the Curt Q20 hitch height from the lowest to the highest. It is adjustable from 13" to 17".from the pickup bed to the top of its skid plate. Adjustment is attained by adjusting the mid-section up or down, in relation to the legs, in 2" increments. Typical clearance between the pickup bed rails and the trailer should be a minimum of 5 1/2". Many fifth wheel kingpin boxes are height adjustable, as well.

[jasin1]

Well it is 60" unloaded, there will be some squat once you place the weight of the pin on it.
Sometimes it is better top be lucky that smart (I did measure both before) the height difference between our old 2001 Ram 2500 4X4 and the new to us 2016 Ram 3500 DRW was about 1":D. Now the sidewall was about 1" or so taller, well we got a picture frame adapter for our hitch to use the puck system and the result was no change necessary. The tailgate height on the 3500 is 58".

This is a comparison of the 2001 to the 2016, same 2005 Keystone Sprinter Copper Canyon.

https://i.imgur.com/clP6r2u.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bIVQHFv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5lwxP1V.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/EG7O4pZ.jpg

That is a nice looking rig combination with the dually and the bike rack

[Aron Julian]

Okay besides the truck being a 2500 is it too high that’s the question never mind all the other stuff that is the question

[notanlines]

:lol:I couldn't help myself....y'all are being too kind. :lol:

[travelin texans]

Okay besides the truck being a 2500 is it too high that’s the question never mind all the other stuff that is the question

Unless you've got a lift kit in the truck there should be enough adjustments between the rv king pin box & the hitch in the truck to be able to hitch up to those 5th wheels that are too much for your 2500 to carry.
As for being a universal fit with sufficient bed clearance for any 5th wheel you're trying to move commercially is anybody's guess. Personally wouldn't want to continually be adjusting pin boxes or my hitch for different RVs nor would I think about becoming a commercial delivery driver with a 3/4 truck.

[Aron Julian]

Okay thanks I’m done

[sourdough]

I think I can see why Aron can never get "straight" answers to fit what he wants to hear......:D And I AM trying to be kind...

[DEDonaldson]

My rig is a 2014.

[ewbldavis]

Some info on the bike rack please...

Off topic I know...but never seen one like that for a 5er.

[Javi]

My truck height is 63 1/2 inches from ground to top of bed rails is this too high for a fifth wheel please help I can’t get a straight answer from anyone

Yes.........

[Northofu1]

Some info on the bike rack please...

Off topic I know...but never seen one like that for a 5er.

Is this the rack you're asking about?

Post 4 of the following link.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39933

[travelin texans]

Is this the rack you asking about?

Post 4 of the following link.
https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39933

Have a feeling it's this rack.
32111
I'm sure Russ has before, during & after pictures!

[Northofu1]

It's the same one, I had seen the original post by Russell

[DEDonaldson]

It is a 2014

[rhagfo]

Some info on the bike rack please...

Off topic I know...but never seen one like that for a 5er.

The rack is a Swagman X2 with a curved 1-1/4" shank. I will state there is a label on it "Not Recommended for RV use". I would never put it on the back of our 5er for sure!
The receiver was fabricated using 2 pieces of 4"X6"X1/4" steel angle, I don't remember how long. The receiver tube I bought at the local RV parts department. I leveled my 5er, placed the angle on the pin box then marked a level line on it. I used an angle grinder to cut the angle. Then took the assembly to a local fabricator who wielded it and punched the four 1/2" mounting holes. cost about $40.

https://i.imgur.com/XK7R3DO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2Mtwjzs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BUlygfO.jpg