Want to buy a model that is not locally available

[cookinwitdiesel]

So the wife and I have a nice trailer currently, honestly it works great - unless you also have a 2 year old you need to accommodate (and we dislike the tight bedroom which we get banished too when the kid needs to sleep).

We have looked at a few (hundred) floor plans online across the many brands and think we have zeroed in on the specific trailer that we like and want to go forward with long(er) term. This would be for several years of use until we go big leagues and get the monster toy hauler and DRW truck :D

The problem is that the nearest one on RVtrader is 3.5 hours away (doable but not ideal but also $10k more than the same trailer at other places) and the nearest CW one is 500 miles away. In a 150 mile radius we have like 3 Camping Worlds and that is who we got our current trailer through. Is there a way to request a dealership order or relocate a trailer for a prospective buyer? I know CarMax can do something similar for free if nearby or for a fee depending on how far the vehicle needs to go. The mid-atlantic is not the ideal place to be a buyer of RVs it would seem.

For those interested, we are looking at a Sprinter Limited 330kbs. I am a big fan of the rear living layout and this is essentially that but flipped 180 degrees. We also both really like the bathroom layout and the 2nd entrance (great when kid needs to sleep, we can still enter/exit the trailer as needed).

Thanks in advance!

[John&Genny]

Sure, you can order your RV from a dealership. That’s what we did with our Avalanche. The local dealer really didn’t want to make a good deal, and the one that did was located about 3 hours away. The one we wanted wasn’t in stock, so we just had them order it, getting exactly what we wanted. It took about 5 weeks for it to arrive which wasn’t bad, but if you go that route, be sure to ask about the expected delivery time.

Also, keep in mind that if you do get your RV from a out of town dealer, expect that you will need to return it to that dealership if you need to have any warranty work done. Most local dealers would probably flat out refuse to do it, or put you on the “When Hell Freezes Over” waiting list. It’s not right, not legal, but that’s the way it is.

[cookinwitdiesel]

So you can order a trailer like you would a car? Do they need some sort of deposit or commitment up front?

[busterbrown]

Yes, a deposit is usually required. I ordered my Bullet and it took approx 6 weeks to be delivered to the dealer. So expect that as your target date.

If you dont mind me asking? Why are you planning this intermediary coach when your intent is to upgrade to a TH? Considering the unit you have now is relatively new, it would seem more reasonable to just jump into what you really want. These coaches devalue like rocks thrown into the lake right when you drive them off the lot. Not trying to convince you otherwise. Just making you aware that really long, heavy, and expensivev TTs are difficult to unload as they target a very specific buyer. At 11500, lbs, they can be classified as best suited for the 1 ton TV segment, where owners usually prefer a 5th wheel chassis. Again, just making you aware.

[cookinwitdiesel]

The main reason for the in between is money. The wife isn't comfortable making such a big jump and putting out the necessary money (or taking on the debt) so soon. We just bought our house last spring so she is still recovering from that.

We also want to put more use on our truck before trading it up so the hit there makes more sense (will have it completely paid off in the next month or so - well ahead of schedule). Based on our current trailer and weights, our truck should be able to comfortably pull the new trailer we are looking at (but obviously not any 5er).

That being said, we recognized quickly that if we are waiting several years to get a big 5er, the current trailer will not meet our needs in the interim.

I never had any illusions that these things would be investments, depreciation is expected but as long as we use it a lot and feel like we get value out of it, I don't mind the hit. We got our current trailer for a really good price ($19k new) so I am (foolishly?) optimistic that I won't take too much of a beating on it. I have done a fair amount of upgrades to it that should add some value too.

How much are these deposits normally? Are they (at least partially) refundable if you back out after seeing the trailer?

Thanks!

[chuckster57]

Only caution on factory ordered units, I find that factory ordered units come in with more issues than one “off the line”. Since it’s a “sold unit” the factories seem to slam those through. As long as your dealer has a decent tech and he/she does a proper and complete PDI, those extra issues should be dealt with before delivery.

Being in the business now, I personally would never order a unit.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Thanks for that insight Chuck. I figured something like that may be the case.

Is there any likelihood someone like CampingWorld would "transfer" a unit between stores or will we have to take a road trip just to shop for a trailer?

[KSH]

A simple call to camping world would answer that question..

[travelin texans]

Honestly you'll take a LOT less hit on your truck than on any rv, so I agree with others, get what rv/truck you want now, it'll be cheaper in the long run.

[cookinwitdiesel]

But when the truck cost 3x what the RV does a small hit on the truck may equal a large hit on the trailer. Also, there will be a large gap between the price of an interim trailer vs the larger end-game trailer. My wife is weird about money and is just really intimidated by the price on the toy hauler she is sure she will want down the road.

What I am hearing then, is just bite off the bullet and skip to the end of the line and get the ideal set up now instead of taking steps in between?

[sourdough]

Taking the big leap now might be beneficial, but, if you are planning on keeping the interim setup for several years as you said and your family is growing (2 yr. old now plus ??), I'm not so sure jumping to the end game now is the good choice. It's very possible you won't have any idea what the end game is because you have so many changing variable going forward at this stage of your life.

As far as finances, it depends on where you are and how much debt you want to take on. If you go to your "end game" you will be taking on a new fifth wheel AND a new truck to pull it - a big bite. A down side to me is that when you take that big step you may find that as the family grows what seemed ideal today might not be such a good idea 5-6 years from now and you will be regretting the decision.

It's all up to you and the DW, but my kids are grown and gone (51/46) but I do remember that at that time in our lives seems like circumstances changed on a monthly basis.

As far as trying to get a xfer of a unit; the dealer you want to transfer to has to carry the line of trailer that you want to xfer from the other dealer - or so I was told by CW in Tallahassee. It's possible that you could xfer a trailer from one CW to another CW regardless of the brand simply because they are under the same overall umbrella - I don't know. I am also a huge proponent of buying from a local dealer so that your issues can be addressed by the dealer you bought it from...hopefully near you. I'm also a fan of CW; they've always done right by me. I know others disagree and I'm sure my experiences don't reflect what others may have had.

[Canonman]

X2 what Danny is saying. We have 2 CW's within 50 miles of us. Of course the one furthest away had the best price:( That said we were assured the closer CW would certainly take care of any issues as if it were purchased there. They did. However the closer service dept. was nowhere near as well trained or helpful as the folks at the CW we purchased from. So when we needed additional warranty repair work done we drove the 75 mile round trip to the service center we had confidence in. Moral of the story; it's all about the after sale service!!

[cookinwitdiesel]

I appreciate the insights Danny.

We are likely only having the one kid although if we have a 2nd, the toyhauler should easily have room for everyone. As long as we like camping (and we like it a lot so far :) ) the Toy Hauler should still remain a good option and fit for us I think and meet any future requirement I could think of (other than wanting something smaller someday lol).

We are well off financially so I am not as concerned there (my wife was raised never spending money so living with me has been a shock for her and an adjustment haha). I will be paying off the truck next month (9 months of ownership) with commission/tax refund/stocks vesting and once paid off, that will largely cover the new truck that would be needed. I am fine financing the difference there as needed. She seems more worried about the trailer than the truck. The NADA low retail price on my current trailer is $24k, I paid $19k so with a little luck/skill I should not have to take a bath there. The Sprinter we were considering is $40k, the Toy Hauler would be about $80k - so already half way there, maybe makes the most sense to just go 100%?

And yes, on the transfer of units, I did some calls this morning and the nearest CW that can sell Sprinters is a 2 hour drive from us - not terrible, they may be able to transfer, will get more info tomorrow. Our local CW (30 mins away) is primarily Cougars and something else I forgot - not on my radar.

That dealership 3.5 hours away (not a CW) is also a large GD dealer, so going up there we could assess ALL options at once which is nice (albeit not terribly local to us).

We have a lot to consider but the good news, the truck I would want is not available for a few more months (the new gen GMC 3500 HD) which forces me to think about this all a lot without actually doing anything drastic.

Thanks again for the advice all!

[AbHDToyHauler]

I would consider used. Find what you want used if you can and let the first owner take the hit. We bought our toy hauler for 50% what it was new. (Was 4 years old) Was very well kept and our first year we had only one issue. The water heater which worked fine on gas but no go on Electric. Was simple high temp fuse. Was about $16 and fixed it right up. I agree on the truck. Get the right truck now and I were you i would consider selling your trailer first to see how low you will have to go to sell it. Could be a bit of an eye opener??

[JRTJH]

X3 "what Danny and Brian" said.....

There are far too many "changes in life plan" or "things we didn't consider" to make "firm, by golly we ain't changing" plans early in a marriage or even in life. Some things that most don't consider is kids and sports, dance, band, scouts, etc... As they grow and become individuals, their interests have a way of changing "family dynamics". I well remember months of soccer seasons, followed by football season, followed by basketball season followed by..... All of that interest by "only two kids" in the family, parked our RV beside the garage except for a couple of trips "between activities".....

So, it's great to have a "general family plan" but......

I'm not so sure I'd "jump to the end" expecting things to remain the way I plan. So buying an expensive toy hauler and a "big dually" right now, only to find that in 3 years, your 5 year old is "hell bent to play soccer with his cousin" and your "well planned investment"... Well, you get the idea.....

I think you're "safer" with an interim RV with minimal investment, and then, later on, if things "stay on your plan" then upgrade later. That way, you'll also have a "years newer toy hauler and tow truck"....

[cookinwitdiesel]

That is a fair point John. Regardless of which way we go, we need to go somewhere as the current trailer is not going to cut it for our needs. May go with the dually anyways and the interim trailer. The new gen GMC trucks will be solid and consistent for 6-7 years but will make our towing easier immediately (pretty close to limits on the 2500 today). Having the truck already makes the switch up to a larger 5er down the road much easier as well.

I do hope our girl likes soccer, I know I did as a kid :)

Right now our "plan" is camp at least once a month with possibly some month long excursion south in the winter. As much as we plan to be in the trailer, it needs an update over our Hideout.

My wife and I are 30/31 and want to get a lot of mileage out of these years of our lives before everything gets more complicated with our baby girl growing up and becoming more of her own person.

[gearhead]

We have been down that road John described. When our 2 kids got to middle school there were many weekend and summer activities. We had a Class C that went hardly anywhere for 2 years before we sold it.
You will take a painful financial hit on most RV's, even more so if it is traded to a dealer rather than you selling it yourself.
Good luck though.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Right now middle school is 9-10 years out, I don't mind taking a hit on a trailer I used a lot for 10 years at that point. The interim seems to make more sense though, since it may be the final trailer depending on where our lives go, smarter move for the time being.

[Greggde]

We just returned from a 2000 mile round trip needed to secure a true 2019
373 fusion ! The local dealers tried with great vigor to dump last years models
on us so we contacted keystones rep for our area and ordered the model that we
wanted . We are now happy campers

[Phil Saran]

Can I add my 2 cents to this. In 2015 we bought a new Thor Hurricane 34E MH
my wife fell in love with the 2 bathrooms and sleeps 7 (we have 5 grandkids)
never had more than 2 grandkids at a time with us. Had it 3 years (took 1 yr to
sell it). Took a 30K hit when I sold it (MH had 14K on the speedo).

Last October we bought our 5th wheel, we live near Denver and ended up traveling
to Rapid City South Dakota to purchase it ($17K under what I could buy it for
locally.

I bought from Camping World and the local CW is willing to do warranty and service
work on it, just takes a month or so to get an appointment.

[cookinwitdiesel]

So last night, we made the 200 mile drive up to Allentown, PA (almost the entire way in a storm of biblical proportions) to checkout the Sprinter and some Reflections. Went into the dealer today then drove home. While there we also popped in some Outbacks they had in stock. As an aside, Tom Schaeffers RV Super Store in Shoemarkersville, PA has an awesome selection of trailers :)

So we went into the Reflections first (312bhts and 315rlts). That may have ruined us. They just seemed obviously better put together and things were all around a little (or a lot) nicer. We went into the Sprinter 330kbs and 320mls after, as well as the Outback 340bh and 341rd. After the Reflections, the Sprinters and Outbacks just felt a little cheaper and lower quality. It is hard to quantify but unmistakable.

My main concern with the 312bhts was that the bedroom is (on paper) the same layout as my Hideout which we do not like. What we were relieved and excited to find out, is that there is an awesome amount of space around all 3 sides of the bed and a ludicrous amount of storage space everywhere in the trailer! It was very comfortable and easy to move around the bedroom in the 312. The 315 vs 312 was interesting, the 315 had an amazing bedroom and closet layout - but you pretty much trade that bunkhouse in the 312 for an extra sofa in the living area and the very spacious closet. If the trailer was 3' longer to accommodate the 315 bedroom on the 312 with the bunkhouse - I would not be able to throw money at them quickly enough. For us, needing the bunkhouse space for our daughter trumps an awesome bedroom setup (we can still get a very nice bedroom AND wont have to be exiled there during naps with the pack-n-play in the bunk room now).

SO, we are now looking at our different options for getting a Reflections 312bhts (3+ dealers in a 4 hour radius) and how we will sell our Hideout. I asked them today what they would give us on trade-in and they fed us some BS saying they would have to compare retail value on my Hideout against MSRP of the Reflections. MSRP on the Reflections is $55k, on a non-trade they would sell it for about $42k. They said they could give me $25k for my Hideout against the $55k Reflections meaning it would be a $30k jump. Understanding they need to make money (and already do at the $42k price clearly) - I would think a better price would be $21k-$22k for my Hideout against the $42k Reflections, a $20k jump. It seemed lazy/greedy/sloppy that they want to just pocket an additional $10k since it is a trade-in (they would still make over 10% on the Hideout in my scenario above - on top of whatever they would make on the Reflections). Should I expect all other dealers to pull the same crap? I really hate dealing with sales people and dealerships by the way haha

I have no experience selling something like this privately and have no clue what the demand in our area looks like. How do you even pay for something that big in a secure way without worrying about scams? I know I will get better mileage and value out of all the improvements I have done with a private sell.

Update: So I went back through the emails and amazon orders....I have done about $2900 in upgrades to a $19k trailer in 6 months. Being on this forum is expensive.....lol (several hundred of that is "detachable" things I would include as I would no longer have a need for them such as EMS, mattress, 30A power cords, etc)

[notanlines]

Sam, I'm truly aghast at such language 'they fed us some BS ' along with the idea that a dealership might be difficult to bargain with....:D
NEVER get it in your mind that a dealer can be alive and well at the end of the year with a 10% mark-up on a used RV. 20% bare minimum on an average sized business.
Simply tell your salesperson (as high up as you can go) that your first, last, and best offer is, i.e. your title-free Hideout, all in first-class working order, and $10,000 or you walk. Do it in writing or with the sales manager around if possible.
It will fly or it won't. You still have more dealerships to try.

[captcolour]

Just me personally, but I would not want to pull a 37' travel trailer. My preference is once the TT gets over 30', move to a 5th wheel.


We started looking at TT's couple years back. Started looking at a 22' that my F150 could tow, to near 30' so had my truck dealer on the phone for a F250, to over 30' which meant to me moving to a 5th wheel.


When we bought the 5th wheel, I really liked the Reflections but the wife liked the Alpine better, so we got that.

[German Shepherd Guy]

WoHoo, went online to check out your choice and that is one serious TT! Looks like it will be more fun than should be legal to have.
Do you think the 2500 GMC is enough truck? That is serious GVWR for a TT and I wonder about upping to a 3500 DRW? Just something to think about.


Congratulations if you have already got it!!
Nice choice.


We do not have kids and that 315 sure was intriguing.

[cookinwitdiesel]

That would be at the limits on this truck but should work. In the next year or two I see a new 3500 in the future. Not sure yet on SRW or DRW (future 5er plans will determine) but will definitely go bigger either way. If I already had a 3500, I would be looking at 5ers and not TTs but it is what it is.

[John&Genny]

NADA does have a online guide for used RV prices, and your Hideout is listed on the site. All you have to do is add whatever options you have above what comes as standard equipment.

The wife and I sold our previous TT (Forest River Rockwood) on Craigslist and it went just fine. I took a bunch of pictures, posted them along with a good description of the trailer, and it sold in one day. The people that bought it had to leave a $500 deposit, and then was required to get a bank check from a major bank to complete the deal. You just have to be careful on any transaction that involves a lot of cash.

I would say whatever trade-in they give you for your Hideout should go against the sale price of your new rig, not the MSRP. And from the looks of it they are not giving you a good deal on the trade-in.

[sourdough]

Sam,

Here is a link to the NADA guide for your trailer. It is base pricing and note that it is for "retail" - not what you will get for a "trade in".

https://www.nadaguides.com/RVs/2018/Keystone-RV/M-28-RKS/6578571/Values

The dealer is playing the same game every car dealership plays, and I've played it many times. They have a margin that they are going to make and they know what they have in the new unit....you don't and you aren't going to find out no matter what they show you. They also know what they are going to sell your unit for after they look at it...you won't no matter what they tell you. If you shoot for their "rock bottom" price in the new unit (which in this case seems pretty high - I would go for 30% off msrp) they are going to give you "rock bottom" trade in. If you go with msrp they will give you the "high end" for your trade in. Either way the margin remains the same; you get to walk away thinking what a great deal you got on the price of the new trailer, or, what a smoking deal you got for your trade in. In reality it is very difficult to walk away with both.

Right now in RV sales they sell them as fast as they can make them. If you don't buy it someone else will if it's a decent floorplan and not priced in the stratosphere. They depend 100% on your (or the next customer's) driving desire for a new trailer, "that" trailer, and your willingness to compromise and spend the dollars even if they are making a little more than we want them to. If you don't do it, the next guy will. It's just the nature of the beast so go into the negotiation hoping for the best and expecting the worst and set the limit in your mind on how much you're willing to "give" to get the new trailer. On the other hand, I personally would sell the trailer myself to save the bath your going to get by trading it in.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Thanks for the advice guys, I have looked at the NADA values for my trailer. Low retail is $17k - so I would probably expect around $13k-$14k best case on a trade-in - which is what I have seen already. After doing some research on it all, I think I will try selling privately and see how that goes. I want to list for $23k assuming I will get haggled down some but that is a reasonable starting point I think. I did have to prep my wife for the reality that we will NOT be breaking even on the trailer.

I have a to-do list though to get it ready to sell
-sand and paint frame and anything with rust on underside
-clean roof and sides and wheels of RV
-inspect and seal the roof
-as part of the sealing process, try to identify where water may have been getting into the ceiling from and fix that as well as clean up the inside

Note on the water, seems to be NO issue when raining on stationary RV, but driving 60-70 mph with heavy rain led to water in the trailer - any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks!

[John&Genny]

Thanks for the advice guys, I have looked at the NADA values for my trailer. Low retail is $17k - so I would probably expect around $13k-$14k best case on a trade-in - which is what I have seen already. After doing some research on it all, I think I will try selling privately and see how that goes. I want to list for $23k assuming I will get haggled down some but that is a reasonable starting point I think. I did have to prep my wife for the reality that we will NOT be breaking even on the trailer.

I have a to-do list though to get it ready to sell
-sand and paint frame and anything with rust on underside
-clean roof and sides and wheels of RV
-inspect and seal the roof
-as part of the sealing process, try to identify where water may have been getting into the ceiling from and fix that as well as clean up the inside

Note on the water, seems to be NO issue when raining on stationary RV, but driving 60-70 mph with heavy rain led to water in the trailer - any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks!

Looks like you are on the right track for selling it privately cookin. When we sold ours it was imaculate, inside and out. That’s one of the reasons it sold so quickly. Also, we did regular maintenance and could show receipts on what was done and when.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Ya, I plan to have it looking "better than new" when I am ready to sell it. That is how I sell everything (computer parts, lawn mowers, etc).

[cookinwitdiesel]

Well, got it listed today. On RVtrader, Craigslist, Keystone Classifieds, Facebook Marketplace. Time to see how the market looks....

I listed at $22k expecting to get haggled some.

[John&Genny]

Well, got it listed today. On RVtrader, Craigslist, Keystone Classifieds, Facebook Marketplace. Time to see how the market looks....

I listed at $22k expecting to get haggled some.

Good luck on the sale cookin! Let us know how it goes.

[Gegrad]

Well, got it listed today. On RVtrader, Craigslist, Keystone Classifieds, Facebook Marketplace. Time to see how the market looks....

I listed at $22k expecting to get haggled some.

Yep, good luck! Sold our old Passport on RVTrader in 2017. Craigslist will likely give you the worst options- people who schedule and never show up, people who try to offer you pennies, etc. Craigslist is awesome for selling mowers, tires, tools, etc. but typically awful for selling vehicles and other high dollar items. When you update us, please let us know which service the buyer utilized, for our own future reference.

[cookinwitdiesel]

So far, 2 hits on Craigslist. One was a lowball $5k cash offer - I responded I would accept that as a down payment on a realistic sales price, lol.

Other was trying to get me to buy a Vehicle History Report from a suspect link that he provided - pass! I WILL purchase one from instaVIN (NADA partner) once I get notice from the bank via mail that the loan is satisfied (paid in full last week).

The joys of the internet :(

[cookinwitdiesel]

Man....sometimes it sucks doing the right thing...lol

Here is an email I just sent to my only real seriously interested buyer:

Hi David,

Unfortunately this trailer would be a very tall order for any 1/2 ton pick-up. Making matters worse, your Raptor has a lot of the robustness that a normal 1/2 ton has removed in the name of performance (softer springs, shorter wheel base, different brakes and tires).

You are definitely doing the right thing in trying to figure out how you can safely pull the trailer you want. RideRite looks like airbags which are useful to level out the ride of a truck but do not improve its load carrying abilities. While I would love to sell you my trailer, my recommendation would be that if safety is a priority (and it sounds like it is, and should be!) you should strongly consider upgrading to a more capable truck. If you are a Ford fan, I would recommend an F-250 at minimum (otherwise, any 3/4 ton or higher model). You have options about gas vs diesel and other stuff, but pretty much any F-250 should be more than sufficient to pull this trailer safely. You may be able to find a "unicorn" F-150 half-ton with the exact right combination of options to make it work on paper, but it will still not compare to a true Super Duty truck when towing and if you do both, you will immediately understand that difference in comfort, safety, ease of handling, etc. The term people tend to use online is "white knuckling it" when driving with a trailer larger than their truck can comfortably/safely handle. The joy of camping goes up tremendously when you are not exhausted just after driving to the campsite.

I hope this helps some. I know there is a pretty healthy market for used trucks and yours should have a nice resale value as it is before Ford switched to aluminum components, has the older naturally aspirated V8 in stead of the EcoBoost turbo'd V6, etc. A lot of people seem to prefer the older versions. Similarly, I have observed that there is a pretty good selection of used SD/HD trucks as well if you do decide to upgrade.

Please let me know what you want to do and I am here to help as much as I can.

Thanks,

<Buyer> wrote:
Hi, Definitely interested, but I'm concerned about the weight. I have a 2010 raptors, which says towing is 6000 lbs. I'm trying to research why my towing is lower and if there are mods that allow me to tow as much as other f150s. Do you know what drives the difference in towing capacity and if I can change something? I read about riderite.

[JRTJH]

Be prepared for a response like:

But I paid $60,000 for this truck and F250's sell for $45,000, so you're telling me that my truck isn't up to the task? I would take too big a loss by trading it in, so I'll keep looking until I find someone who will sell me the trailer I want.

You're right, sometimes it sucks to do the right thing. But, when all is said and done, you'll sleep well at night......

[cookinwitdiesel]

Be prepared for a response like:

But I paid $60,000 for this truck and F250's sell for $45,000, so you're telling me that my truck isn't up to the task? I would take too big a loss by trading it in, so I'll keep looking until I find someone who will sell me the trailer I want.

You're right, sometimes it sucks to do the right thing. But, when all is said and done, you'll sleep well at night......

He seems to be approaching it all responsibly, so hats off to him. Hopefully he does the right thing and trades his Raptor for an F-250 and buys my trailer :D

[notanlines]

Sam, kudos to you for taking the high road. Good conduct (actually hard work) is its own reward. And John? "When all is said and done there will be more said than done!"

[cookinwitdiesel]

If he comes back with, I am going to upgrade my truck, then I will counter with, buy my trailer now and I will deliver it to you so you have it when that new truck is ready. :)

[cookinwitdiesel]

I really hope he understands that the F-250 minimum is the best option here. Are people really that intimidated by the SD/HD trucks?!

Hi David,

The trailer brake controller would be required, my trailer is equipped with electric brakes on the 2 axles and would be needed to safely slow down the trailer (especially in "emergency stop" scenarios). You will need to have a 7-pin trailer trailer connection (brakes + lights) not the usual 4-pin (just lights). Stiffer springs and the longer wheelbase are absolutely factors in trailer towing capacity. Your biggest limitation though will be payload. This is the vertical load you can put on your truck. From what I saw online yesterday, your truck has in the neighborhood of only 1000 pounds of cargo payload rating - my Mazda CX-9 has higher to give some perspective. You can confirm this number by looking at the yellow door jam sticker inside your driver door. 1000 pounds is VERY light for a truck - the Raptor is a "de-tuned" truck in the name of its off-road performance. They were never really intended to haul anything beyond the occasional Home Depot run. If the sales rep told you otherwise, he lied. That payload rating is what you can add to the truck. The number on your door jam sticker, indicates that the truck, as it rolled off the assembly line, can have X stuff added to it. The shipping weight + payload = GVWR for your truck. Out of that payload number you have to subtract the weight of passengers, cargo, equipment added too or loaded in the truck. That would include the weight of the trailer hitch, as well as the tongue weight of the trailer it self. As those both add to the vertical load on the truck. My trailer has a hitch that is probably about 100 pounds itself and a tongue weight I measured at 950 pounds. Your Raptor would be overweight before you even sat in it. A normal F-150 could handle this on paper, I think they can be spec'd up to around 2500 pounds of payload. You still have the issue of trailer weight vs truck weight though with an F-150 vs a F250/350. An F-150 usually will top out around 5000 empty, where as an F-250 will be 7500-8000 pounds. That extra weight helps a ton when managing the trailer and making sure it stays controlled. The Super Duty trucks also have a heavier duty transmission that can handle the weight of the trailer as well as engine braking to control speed safely down hills better as well as heavier duty brakes on the 4 truck wheels which are also important for safely stopping the trailer. It can definitely be pulled by the right F-150, but it will be more stressful than an F-250.

The towing rating is really only indicative of the "horizontal" load that the truck can handle. Mainly, the ability of the truck to stop a load at speed safely - starting slow is not as much of an issue as long as your transmission can handle the load. What the truck manufacturers do not advertise, is that they get their towing ratings certified using "weight sleds" which are like a flatbed trailer with weight added to simulate a load. The reason this is a problem, is that the profile of a travel trailer is much greater than that of a weight sled and because of this, aerodynamics are important. You are pretty much driving a billboard down the road and very subject to crosswinds as well as wind and air pressure created by other passing vehicles. This manifests itself as sway which if unchecked, can lead to dangerous conditions and rolling the trailer and/or truck. The longer wheelbase as well as heavier truck GREATLY help with managing sway. You do not want "the tail wagging the dog" so to speak.

I have measured the trailer tongue weight at about 950 pounds (picture attached - was before the trailer was fully loaded) with about 6500 pounds on the trailer axles (measured at a CAT scale). Conservatively, I would call the trailer 7500 pounds minimum when loaded for a weekend trip with all tanks empty. The trailer has a GVWR of 9660 pounds.

Attached is a picture of the payload rating sticker from my truck so you know what to look for. I pull the trailer with a GMC Sierra 2500HD Denali Diesel and even my truck is close to its limits. It pulls great, but I would prefer to have some more safety margin - I am 300 under the trucks GVWR when I go on a trip.

I would have to strongly recommend you consider and look at SD/HD trucks as they are truly better suited to pulling trailers this size. That being said, it can be done with the right F-150 but I do not think your Raptor can ever be that.

I hope this helps. Please let me know any other questions you can think of.

Thanks,
Sam


<Buyer> wrote:
Thanks for the update. I've seen f-150 variants that have 11000lbs towing capacity. It looks like they have the trailer brake controller, which I can get installed. My truck has the horsepower, so is it just stiffer springs that I need after that? Or do I need the long wheelbase?

How much is your trailer weight in Real life use?

[notanlines]

Sam, dear God, everyone knows you tried your best. I just don't think he's gonna catch on. I simply am almost at a loss for words…..(no, not really:D)

[sourdough]

Sam, dear God, everyone knows you tried your best. I just don't think he's gonna catch on. I simply am almost at a loss for words…..(no, not really:D)


Haaa!! That ought to be my line.....!! :whistling:

[cookinwitdiesel]

I educated that one buyer a lot, and sold to another that showed up with a Diesel F-250 and paid nearly my full asking price :)

Next week we are scheduled to check out an Open Range 328BHS and if that doesn't blow our minds will get a GD Reflection 312BHTS.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Wife loved the layout on the OT328BHS, we both love the GD quality and craftsmanship. The only compromise to keep us all happy is to go to a 5er that has the bunkhouse with 1/2 bath made by GD :D So today I went to 3 dealerships to check out DRWs and get trade-in appraisals on my 2500HD. Looking at a Reflection 311BHS now. Just a small (~$16k loss between truck and trailer) adjustment to our setup.......! I guess that is "taking a bath"

What would you all expect my truck to be worth roughly? 3400 miles, pristine shape. Dealers in the area list 3500s around $60k so I would be surprised if I could get $58k in a private sale - the 2 dealers got up to $56.5k and CarMax offered $56k.

[JRTJH]

Wife loved the layout on the OT328BHS, we both love the GD quality and craftsmanship. The only compromise to keep us all happy is to go to a 5er that has the bunkhouse with 1/2 bath made by GD :D So today I went to 3 dealerships to check out DRWs and get trade-in appraisals on my 2500HD. Looking at a Reflection 311BHS now. Just a small (~$16k loss between truck and trailer) adjustment to our setup.......! I guess that is "taking a bath"

What would you all expect my truck to be worth roughly? 3400 miles, pristine shape. Dealers in the area list 3500s around $60k so I would be surprised if I could get $58k in a private sale - the 2 dealers got up to $56.5k and CarMax offered $56k.

Your comment that I changed to red is "one half of an unknown equation"... What I mean by that is this: It really doesn't matter what the dealer (or CarMax) offer you for trade. It's also important what they charge you for the new truck. Without knowing the cost to buy the new one, the trade in price is irrelevant. Let's look at it two ways:

They offer you $56.5 for your truck and sell you the new one for $70. Your added cost= $13.5

They offer you $51.5 for your truck and sell you the new one for $65. Your added cost= $13.5

If the CarMax deal is "outright purchase of your vehicle with no purchase of another vehicle" then you're looking at apples but nothing to compare it to.

In many states, trade in value can be deducted on sales tax, other states, you can't do that. So, selling outright may cost money compared to trading for the same value. It's much more complicated than just, "How much is my trade going to bring"....

So, unless "the rest of the "cost burden" is included, just looking at the trade in is similar to solving the equation: X=

Unless you know Y, you can't solve for X......

[cookinwitdiesel]

CarMax was an outright "they buy the truck" price. Dealerships had a 66k sale price, would have been 3k lower but I didn't want their high interest loan, opted for the 0% offer instead. Cheaper overall this way and no rush to pay down loan.

The biggest win on all of this though to me (financially) is I am essentially refinancing the large remaining balance on my original truck from 7% to 0%. I was going to pay off the loan in 2 weeks with a large cash outlay just to avoid further interest, now I can keep that in the bank and enjoy those interest free loan payments monthly.

[Customer1]

Next week we are driving 1,800 miles round trip for our new trailer. That's reasonable, right? We wanted one without iN-Command which meant finding a left over 2018. We also insist on the theater seating and free standing table and chairs. The only one available happens to be 900 miles from us.

[cookinwitdiesel]

You are more flexible than me :) Biggest challenge for us would be, we already sold the old trailer, so we would have to stay in a hotel driving there which is a huge bummer after having the comforts of a trailer!