Help...

[Sandals 123]

Good morning, we are out for the first time in our 29RKS. We are in a provincial site with no service. When we disconnected the truck last night we got a warning message that Battery One was low... We turned on the fridge and furnace but did not use the lights to try to save the power.

About 4am this morning we had no power at all. Hooked up the power cable to the truck to power up and charge the battery but still not holding a charge...

Any ideas?

Thanks
Alan

[Sandals 123]

The truck is running to charge. My concern is how the battery charge drops immediately when I turn off the truck.

My understanding was that the batteries would power the trailer more several days without charging.

[KSH]

I don't think the truck will really put much charge into the battery. Are these old batteries? Check the water level in the battery, any disconnect switch?

[Sandals 123]

I don't think the truck will really put much charge into the battery. Are these old batteries? Check the water level in the battery, any disconnect switch?

Trailer is brand new, there are two 6volt batteries. There is a Battery disconnect switch.

If the truck won't "charge" the battery, how does one recharge?

[MattHelm21]

The cable in the trailer connector is usually not of sufficient gauge to carry much of a charge rate. In a pinch, if you have jumper cables you can use them to carry the trucks charge to the trailer battery but you must be careful sparking near the battery where gases may be present.

Most people use a generator which provides AC voltage that connects to the trailer park connector. In this configuration the trailer’s on board AC/DC converter charges the batteries for you.

[Canonman]

Your truck likely is not equipped with an alternator capable of recharging fully depleted batteries let alone the large 6v type that you have. In your new trailer, the LED lights are probably the least power use items. The furnace and fridge (if electric) are the largest draw.
My suggestion, if you haven't done this already, is to find another camper who might borrow you their generator. It will take "shore" power provided by a generator to charge your batteries via the onboard converter.
If your batteries are new and there are no other issues (I'm guessing that everything worked for at least some period of time) charging with a generator should take care of the problem. Charge time could take as long as 4 or more hours so be patient and offer to repay the new camping friend for fuel and maybe a a batch of cookies:)

[Sandals 123]

Your truck likely is not equipped with an alternator capable of recharging fully depleted batteries let alone the large 6v type that you have. In your new trailer, the LED lights are probably the least power use items. The furnace and fridge (if electric) are the largest draw.
My suggestion, if you haven't done this already, is to find another camper who might borrow you their generator. It will take "shore" power provided by a generator to charge your batteries via the onboard converter.
If your batteries are new and there are no other issues (I'm guessing that everything worked for at least some period of time) charging with a generator should take care of the problem. Charge time could take as long as 4 or more hours so be patient and offer to repay the new camping friend for fuel and maybe a a batch of cookies:)

Thanks for the great reply! I had no idea that the truck would not charge the battery. The problem started because I left the master switch on and the batteries were totally dead. I thought the 2 hour drive would solve the problem.

I will wander around the site and see if I can use a generator to solve the problem.

[Sandals 123]

Ok. I got my truck turned around, found my jumper cables... Now, how do I connect to the 2 6v batteries?

[HitFactor]

The batteries are wired in series to make the output voltage 12v.

Between the two batteries there is a short cable. Pretend that ( terminals and cable) doesn't exist.

Connect the negative on the 6v trailer battery to the negative on the truck. Connect the positive on the 6v trailer battery to the positive on the truck.

When you connect the positive to the truck, there will be a little sparking.

If you don't understand what I wrote, wait for another description on how to do it.

[daveinaz]

question: When I'm connected to shore power, the battery disconnect switch must be turned on in order for elec from the converter/charger to get to the batteries. I don't know if that 's true when the charge is coming from the tow vehicle or not.

[HitFactor]

question: When I'm connected to shore power, the battery disconnect switch must be turned on in order for elec from the converter/charger to get to the batteries. I don't know if that 's true when the charge is coming from the tow vehicle or not.Probably not, we should be connecting directly to batteries, bypassing the disconnect switch.

[Steveo57]

The batteries will take hours and hours to charge. With two six volt batteries you have about 200ah of capacity. Since they are completely discharged you have a lot of charging to do. Even if you were plugged in and using the converter to recharge the battery it will take 3-4 hours to recharge them to a useable level. The furnace is a big draw on the battery so If you can get by without it your battery will last a lot longer.

[HitFactor]

His truck should have far more charging capacity than the on board charger/converter.

Shore power is not an option at this time

[chuckster57]

His truck should have far more charging capacity than the on board charger/converter.

Shore power is not an option at this time



Depends on the gauge of wire used in the TV. Typically it isn’t very heavy and the trailer charger/converter will produce more amps.

[HitFactor]

Depends on the gauge of wire used in the TV. Typically it isn’t very heavy and the trailer charger/converter will produce more amps.He is using jumper cables right now.

[Steveo57]

His truck should have far more charging capacity than the on board charger/converter.

Shore power is not an option at this timeBest option would be to borrow a generator and plug the trailer into use the onboard converter.

Even using jumper cables the truck alternator can't put out the voltage needed to do a bulk charge. So the charging rate will be relatively slow. He'd probably have to run the truck all day long to get a good charge.

[HitFactor]

Geez guys read the thread.

The alternator on his truck probably makes 150 amps or more. Borrowing a generator to make 10 amps of charging is not going to be faster.

Charging rate is not determined by cable gauge. Small gauge will just melt if you try to put too many amps through it.

The truck will most certainly output the correct voltage for charging.

[Steveo57]

Geez guys read the thread.

The alternator on his truck probably makes 150 ramps or more. Borrowing a generator to make 10 amps of charging is not going to be faster.

Charging rate is not determined by cable gauge. Small gauge will just melt if you try to put to many amps through it.

The truth will most certainly output the correct voltage for charging.Charging rate is not determined by the capability of the alternator/charger. It needs the voltage differential to get the higher rates. The onboard converter is capable of putting out 14.4 volts steady to push the higher bulk charge rates.

So it all depends on what the voltage is on the charging vehicle. If the alternator in the charging vehicle is maintaing a high enough voltage at idle then yes it can be as effective as the onboard converter. And at any rate you'd still need to run the truck for 4-6 hours to get the charge back up to a decent state.

[HitFactor]

The truck will detect the lower voltage. The voltage regulator will increase voltage. I agree it won't make full voltage, but it will have far more amps. Of course, the truck battery is probably fully charged, since it's in parallel with TT batts the voltage regulator won't detect all the work it could really be performing.

The OP is stuck with dead batteries at a provincial park. He looked for generator opportunities and the jumper cables with his truck is the only option. No shore power either.

If he needed a fast charge disconnecting the truck battery and just connecting to the TT batteries would do it.

We have similar Nuke backgrounds, I'm just not lucky enough to have retired yet.

[Steveo57]

The truck will detect the lower voltage. The voltage regulator will increase voltage. I agree it won't make full voltage, but it will have far more amps. Of course, the truck battery is probably fully charged, since it's in parallel with TT batts the voltage regulator won't detect all the work it could really be performing.

The OP is stuck with dead batteries at a provincial park. He looked for generator opportunities and the jumper cables with his truck is the only option. No shore power either.

If he needed a fast charge disconnecting the truck battery and just connecting to the TT batteries would do it.

We have similar Nuke backgrounds, I'm just not lucky enough to have retired yet.[emoji106] I'm glad we nuked it out! [emoji16]

[slow]

To the "nukes" :), any value in increasing the rpms of the truck while charging the batteries? Seems to make a difference when boosting another vehicle in cold weather. Does it increase the alternator output and help in this situation?

[HitFactor]

If you have a voltmeter and can see an increase in voltage, then yes.

[slow]

Thanks for the insight. Another thing learned today.

[Steveo57]

To the "nukes" :), any value in increasing the rpms of the truck while charging the batteries? Seems to make a difference when boosting another vehicle in cold weather. Does it increase the alternator output and help in this situation?Yes but who wants to sit there with the engine revd to 2-3000 rpm for hours? [emoji51]21463

[Canonman]

I have to say I'm a little disappointed that no one in the park would borrow their generator to help another camper in trouble:(
I've done it for fellow campers a couple of times over the years and consider it just another "on the road" courtesy. Maybe we're just different down here.

[GHen]

I have found that many vehicles can hardly charge their own battery at “idle”, even harder to charge a big rv battery setup. If any lights or heater turn on in the tow vehicle, it could certainly not be enough. They do an ok job at cruise, or if you sit in the truck and hold the rpms at 1500 or better.

Many stock alternators are only about 70 amp, optional trailer packages may have the bigger alternators needed to charge trailer equipment, but you still need higher rpm’s than idle.

During power outages, some utility companies can increase idle speed on service trucks when charging a battery like in phone or cable equipment. Most now just use a portable generator since they are more efficient and since the alternators don’t charge quick enough.

You don’t need a big generator if all you’re doing is powering the charging equipment in the trailer to charge the batteries. I’m not sure, but 1000watt may be enough. I use a Honda 2000.

[slow]

Looks like even 1,000 rpm would be better than idle.

[GHen]

Steveo, great chart above, didn’t see it when I was typing my reply.

[slow]

I have to say I'm a little disappointed that no one in the park would borrow their generator to help another camper in trouble:(


I rarely see a generator or trailer with a generator in a provincial park campground in our area. Maybe once in 30+ years of camping regularly.

[Steveo57]

Looks like even 1,000 rpm would be better than idle.That's alternator RPM which is determined by pulley size. It's just a generic visual to show that engine speed does have an affect.

[GHen]

We regularly see vehicles abandoned around here during snow storm traffic jams. I know of people, in traffic, with lights radio and heat on, where their car quit running, dead battery and they could not start it without a jump. The car will run just off the battery until it’s completely drained.
If the alternator can’t keep up with the vehicle own power consumption, how can it charge a trailer battery.

Again, Great chart Steve. Looks like the 2000-3000 rpm is the right number. Then all you need to do is hope the cooling system can keep up. 3000 rpms generates a lot of heat. Generator is the answer.

[chuckster57]

Guess this old dog learned something.

[Sandals 123]

Thanks to everyone for the help! My TV is a 2010 F350 with dual batteries. I hooked it up to the trail batteries via a pair of 10 guage jumper cables, because, as someone pointed out, there is nobody near me with a generator.

I ran the truck for a couple of hours which, according to the control panel, got us up to 14v. We have been very careful overnight by shutting off the furnace and not using the lights much. Up early this morning, power was down to 11.1v but enough to start the furnace and allow me to run a couple of lights.

So far, I have learned 3 lessons:

1. Full service sites allow for better peace of mind.
2. A small portable generator is a beautiful thing.
3. Turn off the Master power switch when storing.

Thanks

[Canonman]

Glad it all worked out. We dry camp a lot and would not travel without our generator. One other suggestion, make sure you start each trip with fully charged batteries.
Thanks for following up and letting us all know the outcome.

[travelin texans]

Thanks to everyone for the help! My TV is a 2010 F350 with dual batteries. I hooked it up to the trail batteries via a pair of 10 guage jumper cables, because, as someone pointed out, there is nobody near me with a generator.

I ran the truck for a couple of hours which, according to the control panel, got us up to 14v. We have been very careful overnight by shutting off the furnace and not using the lights much. Up early this morning, power was down to 11.1v but enough to start the furnace and allow me to run a couple of lights.

So far, I have learned 3 lessons:

1. Full service sites allow for better peace of mind.
2. A small portable generator is a beautiful thing.
3. Turn off the Master power switch when storing.

Thanks
As to #3 on your list, you're better off disconnecting the cables from the batteries for storage, there's still enough parasitic draw even with the switch off to drain your batteries in a about a week.

[GHen]

I agree with Texan, the battery disconnect still allows power to go to many items, trailer brakes, smoke and CO2 detector, slides, levelers and maybe others. Your batteries will still go dead in a couple weeks or less. I think they are really designed for while traveling or something.
Add a disconnect switch on the negative side of the battery to use when storing. Better yet, take the batteries out and put them on a battery tender in your garage over the winter.
I added a 100 watt solar panel on the roof to keep my batteries charged, we don’t get much snow here that would block the panel.
Also, to avoid damaging them, consider your batteries dead below 12.2 volts, get a charge on them immediately if they are below 12.2. Using them at 11.1 is not a good plan.

[Sandals 123]

As to #3 on your list, you're better off disconnecting the cables from the batteries for storage, there's still enough parasitic draw even with the switch off to drain your batteries in a about a week.

Ok. Thanks for the advice.

Now, about generators, does anyone have recommendations for a reliable, quiet model available in Canada?

Thanks

[GHen]

We use two Honda 2000’s. Connected together they will run an air conditioner also. The new 2200 is even better, light, very quiet, but expensive.

[HitFactor]

Two Honda 2000s paired together with the RV plug.

[Sandals 123]

Glad it all worked out. We dry camp a lot and would not travel without our generator. One other suggestion, make sure you start each trip with fully charged batteries.
Thanks for following up and letting us all know the outcome.

So, I have my truck charging the unit again now, it appears that if one starts with low batteries, it's hard to catch up.

Generally speaking, what are some of the ways to save power when dry camping? I assume that the AC unit and the furnace are the two biggest users.

Also, what size generator is required for a reasonable level of power? I don't use the Microwave at all.

Thanks
Alan

[Steveo57]

Thanks to everyone for the help! My TV is a 2010 F350 with dual batteries. I hooked it up to the trail batteries via a pair of 10 guage jumper cables, because, as someone pointed out, there is nobody near me with a generator.

I ran the truck for a couple of hours which, according to the control panel, got us up to 14v. We have been very careful overnight by shutting off the furnace and not using the lights much. Up early this morning, power was down to 11.1v but enough to start the furnace and allow me to run a couple of lights.

So far, I have learned 3 lessons:

1. Full service sites allow for better peace of mind.
2. A small portable generator is a beautiful thing.
3. Turn off the Master power switch when storing.

Thanks


Running the truck for a few hours probably only got you to 30-charge at best. At 11.1 volts the batteries are essentially dead. 12.8 volts would be fully charged and you should try to keep them above about 12.1 volts ideally. You want to measure the voltage after charging by letting it settle for 10-20 minutes.

Charging with the truck you have a good battery in parallel with the bad one. The good battery will partially mask the low state of charge of the dead battery which will lower the charging rate. One other option would be to get an inverter and hook it up to the truck. Then you could run a regular charger or plug the trailer into it and use the onboard charger. These chargers would do a better job of charging.

[HitFactor]

Sandals, I suggest taking the batteries for a load test at an auto parts store. It's usually no charge here in the states, if the batteries are damaged they will need replacement.

A discharged lead cell freezes about 20 degrees F, -7 C, and that's not good. Don't know if your storage was heated or not.

[Canonman]

"Generally speaking, what are some of the ways to save power when dry camping? I assume that the AC unit and the furnace are the two biggest users.
Also, what size generator is required for a reasonable level of power? I don't use the Microwave at all."

When dry camping, it's almost impossible to run the A/C off the batteries. It would require too many batteries and provide too little run time to be worthwhile. The furnace should be no problem since just the 12v fan is using the battery. Any 110v appliance that uses battery energy via an inverter to produce heat i.e coffee pot, toaster, M/W or hair dryer etc. would be a huge battery drain.
We use an old fashioned percolator coffee pot on the stove as about our only concession to saving battery power. With your set up judicious use of lights, water pump and other 12v accessories, there should be no problem.
We used to run our generator for a couple hours each day to keep our much smaller batteries topped off. We now have a 200w solar unit that we use for that function. Still using the 4 year old group 24 batteries that came with the Cougar, but when they die we'll change to a 6v set up.
Once you get your batteries up to full charge (hard to do using the truck as a generator) you should have no problem using your 12v system and accessories overnight and likely more.
I would suggest getting a generator to keep your batteries charged. As you have seen, folks here are suggesting an "inverter" type generator. They are much quieter and provide cleaner power than the open frame construction types. We use a single 3000w inverter type that allows us to power our A/C if needed. A 2000w unit will provide all the power you'll need to run 110v appliances (not all at the same time) as well as charge the batteries but probably won't start the A/C. Check the internet for brand options and of course this forum for suggestions and opinions. What ever you choose, Keep on Camping!!

[Northofu1]

I would stay close to powered sites until you finish doing your homework on what best suits your camping style. I haven't heard a generator run in an Ontario provincial park, I wouldn't run one.

[Canonman]

Dan, I've not stayed in a Canadian Provincial park. Are the rules or standards much different than State Parks in the U.S.?

[Northofu1]

We've not stayed in a State park yet, only private parks. (Although we do have trips coming this summer in COE and State parks) In Canada, we've stayed at several Provincial parks and National parks. All had power. Not really a need to run a generator. I can tell you the parks I have stayed in are well manned and park personnel drive by's were fairly frequent when on site.
I have had my fair share of dry camping experience in tents as a younger man with friends on fishing trips, Serena is not into that style of camping, neither am I anymore.

[Sandals 123]

We've not stayed in a State park yet, only private parks. (Although we do have trips coming this summer in COE and State parks) In Canada, we've stayed at several Provincial parks and National parks. All had power. Not really a need to run a generator. I can tell you the parks I have stayed in are well manned and park personnel drive by's were fairly frequent when on site.
I have had my fair share of dry camping experience in tents as a younger man with friends on fishing trips, Serena is not into that style of camping, neither am I anymore.

The provincal parks on Vancouver Island are well run and very clean. Apparently there is a window of time in which you can run a generator but nobody around our site has done so. I suspect that some of the new inverter type generators would certainly be quite compared to leaving my 6.4 running!

Next month we are going to Pacific Rim National park

(https://tourismtofino.com/things-to-do/special-places/pacific-rim-national-park-reserve/)

for 2 weeks so I need to get educated on how to manage my rig.

[Canonman]

Sandals, sent you a PM regarding help.

[bobbecky]

Generally, your battery disconnect switch should be left on, and if there is confusion, the red plastic key should not be able to be removed when the switch is on or connected to the batteries When jumping dead batteries, the ground connection to the source vehicle should be done last and should be connected at a solid point away from the source battery. You also should check your tow vehicle to make sure it is sending power to your trailer. Many times there is a fuse that must be installed in the tow vehicle so it can send power to the trailer. If you are doing much dry camping, without a power source, you really need at least a small generator to keep your batteries charged. If you run your batteries to a dead state, you will damage them to a point where they will not take much charge.

[cenders]

Ok. I got my truck turned around, found my jumper cables... Now, how do I connect to the 2 6v batteries?

I don't think anyone answered correctly. but I didn't read all of the posts.

When you have 2 6V batteries, think of them as [+ -][+ -] similar to putting two AA batteries end to end inside a TV remote.

You'll want to connect the positive end of a jumper cable to the positive terminal on ONE battery. The negative end of the jumper cable to the negative termainl on the OTHER battery. Do not connect both ends to the same battery or you'll be giving a 6V battery all 12 volts and it'll fry.

[itat]

I don't think anyone answered correctly. but I didn't read all of the posts.

When you have 2 6V batteries, think of them as [+ -][+ -] similar to putting two AA batteries end to end inside a TV remote.

You'll want to connect the positive end of a jumper cable to the positive terminal on ONE battery. The negative end of the jumper cable to the negative termainl on the OTHER battery. Do not connect both ends to the same battery or you'll be giving a 6V battery all 12 volts and it'll fry.

Just found this thread now. I thought the same thing myself.

[LHaven]

As to #3 on your list, you're better off disconnecting the cables from the batteries for storage, there's still enough parasitic draw even with the switch off to drain your batteries in a about a week.

I concur. I've always removed the batteries when storing my rig, especially since that allows me to bring them in the garage and hook them up to a trickle charger to keep them in top condition until I need them again. (Don't forget to ride herd on the water level.)

[Irishman2014]

I agree with Texan, the battery disconnect still allows power to go to many items, trailer brakes, smoke and CO2 detector, slides, levelers and maybe others. Your batteries will still go dead in a couple weeks or less. I think they are really designed for while traveling or something.
Add a disconnect switch on the negative side of the battery to use when storing. Better yet, take the batteries out and put them on a battery tender in your garage over the winter.
I added a 100 watt solar panel on the roof to keep my batteries charged, we don’t get much snow here that would block the panel.
Also, to avoid damaging them, consider your batteries dead below 12.2 volts, get a charge on them immediately if they are below 12.2. Using them at 11.1 is not a good plan.
Ghen - I too have a couple of Solar panels on my roof (not certain of the wattage, but I plan to find out).. Question - while my TT is in storage I have the battery disconnect off (no power to the TT). Are my solar panels still charging my two 6V batteries? I've only had the TT for 1.5 months and used it twice (with shore hook-up). It seems that the digital solar control panel always reads 14+ volts even after sitting in storage a couple of weeks.

[sfem192]

Yes the panels should charge the batteries when the battery disconnect is off

[Irishman2014]

Thank you for clarifying that my solar system will keep my batteries charged even if the disconnect is off. Therefore, if I understand this correctly as long as the sun is shinning on the panels my batteries should continue to be charged and there's no need to remove them or disconnect the cables from them even in extended storage. Thanks again.

[Mainer]

#1. If your battery disconnect is at the battery and nothing else is connected to the terminals, nothing will charge your batteries.

#2. Voltage drop on 25 feet of #10 wire at 35 Amps is 1 volt. TV wiring is probably smaller and routing may be longer than 25 feet. You will never get near the charge from the TV as you will from shore power without modification. I put a booster next to the batteries on my trailer, it pulled the voltage at the TV plug to 11.5 volts and the booster triped out. Working on the #10 wire solution to keep the plug over 12 volts so the booster will supply the 14.8 volts to bulk charge the trailer batteries. TVs generally put out only 13.6 to "keep" the TV battery charged. Alternators generally have enough amperage capacity, but voltage is the issue.

[John Janis]

I have a 2016 fuzion chrome and can find no generator shut off on the interface panel inside the camper. Do i have to use a sequence on the prime and start buttons. I cannot see any stop or shutoff button. Thank you

[MattHelm21]

Hi John,

As you can see from my signature, I also have a Fuzion Chrome. On the In-Command, there is a generator start soft button. When the generator is running, it changes to a soft stop button.

[John Janis]

I have a 2016 fuzion chrome and can find no generator shut off on the interface panel inside the camper. Do i have to use a sequence on the prime and start buttons. I cannot see any stop or shutoff button. Thank you



My generator fired up automatically when I was was hooking up, maybe because the battery was getting low. But the button never changed. I will have to try it by starting inside, Thanks Matt.:)