5th Wheel Hitch, to slide or not to slide

[HodgeHouse]

Greetings all! I'm pretty sure this has been a question that has already been brought up, but we are new to the forum and looking for some advice.

Not new to full time RV-ing or towing a variety of items, but we have upgraded everything from years ago, and looking for some advice on specific vehicle and trailer set-up, to pick the correct hitch.

We have a 2012 3500 Ram, standard short-bed (NOT Ram Box or Mega Cab bed). We just purchased a 2014 Montana Big Sky, 3582RL. Age old question... with the way the nose of that particular trailer is made, do we really need a slider hitch? We'll be driving out of state to pick it up, and I've been waiting to purchase a new hitch, waiting to see what trailer we actually found. So this is a one shot deal.

My usual, retentive, do-it-right the first time, life-long motor-head oriented-self, says to just spend the extra money and buy a slider hitch, for the "just in case" moments... but if I don't need to spend twice as much, and the nose will clear the cab, then I'd rather go with a non-slider.

Any help and advice from the community would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks much, Dan & Crystal

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum. Simple way to tell is just ask the seller to measure the distance from the pin to a corner.

Take that measurement, then using the center of your bed, 1” forward of the rear axle, simply hold the tape and rotate.

[bobbecky]

It depends on where you are likely to be going. Our truck is a 6 1/2 ft bed, and just backing into our spot in Arizona a couple days ago, we were almost 90 degrees from the trailer and if it wasn't for the Pullrite slider, we would have been kissing the cab. If you always intend to get pull through sites and are extremely careful, you can probably get by without a slider, but for us, I have been very glad we sprung for the slider, and an automatic slider at that.

[tomd]

I have the pull rite slider and don't regret it at all. You simply don't have to worry about hitting your truck/trailer during turns and tight backing up manuervers. There are enough other things to worry about, so for a few bucks you save yourself the worry. It was worth it the one time I needed to make U-turn and could concentrate on traffic vs. my truck/trailer interface.
Great product IMHO.

[GHen]

We have a Chevy 6.5’ bed and our Jayco is set up for 88degrees. I do not have a slider, and only get to about 80 degrees but never any further. Our son has a Ram with a slider, has never needed it. Biggest issue is his slider is it’s much heavier, he uses a come-along type winch to get it out of his truck. We can just lift our non-slider BM companion out, still heavy, but I can remove it by myself.

[Ranchhand]

I have a 2011 Ram 2500 crew cab short box and just recently purchased a 2014 Keystone Cougar and had the same question as you. I went with the non slider hitch for the reason that the automatic sliders are so heavy. I have to be able to change between a gooseneck and a fifth wheel hitch and did not want to have to get a hitch out that ways a couple of hundred pounds. If you do not have to remove the hitch on a regular basis then I would say get a slider. With that be said is a slider a complete must have I say no. When I got mine home I tried mine just to see how far I could turn and I would say that I could get to about 80 degrees on level ground. Is there a chance you could hit the cab with a non sliding hitch yes for sure. For me it was just a weight thing.

[HodgeHouse]

Thanks all for your prompt feedback. I am going with a B&W Companion, 20K. What I was really curious about, on that particular hitch, since you can mount the riser pieces that the head sits on... offset either forward or aft, if the aft position would help give just enough degrees to the rear, to allow a couple extra inches of cab clearance?

[jsb5717]

You might consider the Andersen Ultimate Hitch. That's what I use in my short box and it gives you a 5" set back, which helps in the sharp turns. Depending the the 5er cap design it might not give you 90 degrees but it does help. The hitch comes in 2 installation designs for either attaching to a goose neck ball or standard hitch rails and is light and very easy to remove/install (also rated at 20k). Nose design and hitch height are variables that can also allow for tighter turns.

With my previous 5er and the same truck I could easily turn 90 degrees. This new Monatana won't allow that. I haven't figured out my tolerances yet but I know I've got to be more alert in the tight turn.

As always, just pay attention. Having a spotter while parking is also helpful.

[tech740]

Plus the Andersen is less than 40lbs. I love mine.

[mcmeadows1]

Peace of mind, whatever that is for the original poster of this thread, is the answer. For some people, saving money is of upmost importance, for others light weight is paramount, and for still others convenience is the highest priority. Nobody but the original poster can say what is most important to them.

For my wife and me, we decided the PullRite SuperGlide was the best choice for us. Our 5th wheel has the two indentations in the front cap to allow for tight turning. However, we felt the added convenience (and safety) of an automatic sliding hitch was worth the extra cost. Furthermore, the SuperGlide is a great hitch, even not factoring in its ability to automatically slide when making turns.

Finally, we are human and make mistakes. Just one moment of inattention while turning the truck and trailer in a very sharp turn, either forward or backwards, could cause more than enough damage to the truck and trailer to cost thousands of dollars of damage to repair, not to mention the interruption or canceling of our travels. Paying an extra $400 to $500 now, for the automatic sliding hitch, was worth the peace of mind of knowing we greatly reduced the possibility of causing inadvertent damage to either our truck and trailer when making sharp turns.

[drew999999]

Just went through the journey you are now on. Purchased a Sprinter 3571FWLFT and couldn't decide if I needed a slider. Tow rig is a 2016 F350 CCSB. Ended up being cautious and went with the B&W Companion sliding hitch. Once I had the rig back home, I did some backing tests and got it turned fairly tight (Probably 70-80 degrees) without sliding and had a few inches of clearance left. I don't think I'd want to go much tighter as it starts twisting the axles on the 5er. Also, backing and not contacting the cab on level ground is one thing, but if turning tight and the trailer drops a bit to the turning side (in an indent or pothole in the camp site) having the slider will save quite a bit in body shop repairs.

[HodgeHouse]

Great feedback and different view points from everyone, we sure appreciate it. I went went with the B&W Companion Slider, ordered it this morning. As mcmeadows mentioned above, peace of mind. I have no doubt that I would could use a non-slider hitch, or an Anderson, with no issues, but that one time you might need it... it's worth it. I am also planning to do some U-Ship type of driving when I retire from the military soon, so this will allow me to be able to move a much larger variety of trailers and equipment with my current truck. By the time I move 2 units around for someone, it will have paid for the $500 difference

[jsb5717]

Congrats on the decision. I've heard a lot of good things about that hitch so I'm sure it will take good care of you.

[TN Traveler]

Get the slider. If you only use it one time yet save your cab and/or rear window from being damaged...

Congratulations. I believe you'll like that B&W Companion Slider - that is the hitch I use as well

[KOZKO]

ANDERSEN ULTIMATE all the way - I just love it! It’s EASY and it’s LIGHT! My older brother has had a B&W Companion for years and wants to sell it and buy an Andersen! My driveway is super tight and I’m at almost 90 degrees with ease!

[5J's]

The alternative is to get a Reese Goosebox and do away with the 5th wheel. No need to remove or store the 5th wheel.

[jsb5717]

doesn't adding a gooseneck adapter to a 5th wheel pin void a warranty as it changes the stress point of the tow design.

[mtofell]

Welcome to the forum. Simple way to tell is just ask the seller to measure the distance from the pin to a corner.

Take that measurement, then using the center of your bed, 1” forward of the rear axle, simply hold the tape and rotate.

This assumes level ground at all times. All it takes is one side of the 5th wheel to be elevated and the whole measurement changes.... a lot sometimes. With the 5th at roughly a 90 degree angle (or something approaching that) to the truck, all it takes is the trailer wheel facing rearward to be elevated and it tilts the cap of the 5th right into the truck.

I've seen a bunch of guys on forums with busted back windows that just can't understand how they measured wrong.

[chuckster57]

doesn't adding a gooseneck adapter to a 5th wheel pin void a warranty as it changes the stress point of the tow design.


I know that the Reese “Goosebox” doesn’t void the frame warranty from Lippert.

Anderson has a “supplemental warranty” up to $5 million dollars if Lippert voids a claim based on the use of the hitch.

[5J's]

Yep, what chuckster said. Reese is owned by Lippert so that is the only adaptor they'll stand behind. That is why I chose it.

[jsm180]

Reese is not owned by Lippert. I thought the same thing but a phone call to Lippert set me straight. They approve the use of the Goose Box but do not manufacture it. A huge plus in my book for the Goose Box.

Horizon Global Corporation owns Reese.

Scroll to the bottom of the page.

http://www.reeseprod.com/

[JRTJH]

Reese is NOT owned by Lippert and as far as I know, there is no connection between the two companies.

As for the Andersen "million dollar guarantee". Do a quick search on this forum and you'll find at least one owner with damage that was "attributed to the Andersen hitch" and the company's response: We'll do our internal investigation and let you know if we believe your damage was caused by our hitch. Until then, he always believed that if Keystone/Lippert refused the warranty, the Andersen "guarantee" would cover it. Turns out it's only the beginning and unless their "internal review" approves, you'd best hope you have good insurance to cover damages, otherwise, it's an expensive lesson in reading the fine print buried deep in that "million dollar guarantee"......

[John&Genny]

John: I think I know what post you are referring to, and as I recall, Keystone/LCI “claimed” the crack was caused by the Andersen hitch, when most likely it was caused by a faulty weld in the structure. It was just a way for them to get out of the warranty work. Now, I will agree that Andersen should step up to cover the repairs even if it wasn’t the actual fault of the hitch, but in reality, they are under no obligation to do so.

What I would like to see is Andersen work with LCI and get their hitch certified so this becomes a non-issue.

[5J's]

Thanks for setting me straight guys. You are absolutely correct a quick net search shows Reese is a Horizon Global brand. When I was in the market I was seriously considering the Anderson hitch. I made a call to Lippert to ask about the use of the Anderson and I was told the Goosebox was the only goose neck they would endorse. I shared that with my dealer who then told me about the Reese/LCI connection. I should've known to question what he said. Just goes to show the ole dealer ain't on top of the game.

[jsb5717]

Ditto on Andersen. Since the config of the hitch maintains the designed stress point of the 5er I don't see how an Andersen hitch could cause damage any more than any standard 5th wheel hitch. In fact, depending on the standard hitch used, the Andersen would provide less stress since there would be no pin binding at extreme angles.

Manufacturer is just dodging responsibility for faulty build quality given the haste with which many of the coaches are built. One bad day on the line and someone will have a broken weld. Any one can end up with a lemon. I know...that's what I got with my previous rig.

[MustBeNice]

Not to hijack, but I see the OP has already ordered his B&W Slider.....

So, I have a very similar situation..... 2016 Cougar X-Lite 28DBI & 2015 RAM 3500 CCSB and look for the right hitch. Was thinking the standard B&W Companion for RAM mounts.... and just configuring head uprights to rear-most position. Now after reading this, I'm on the fence (still).

The only difference / adder I have from the OP is that I occasionally "tandem tow", but ~14-15K is just that on either a 20K or 24K rated hitch & 17K rated truck.

So I ask.... Does anyone have experience with the B&W Slider (RVK3670) ? Is it solid in the forward (high speed) locked position? As I always associate moving parts to wear, which = rattles and noise?!

NOTES: I've pulled this same camper with my past truck (a 2009 Chevy 2500HD CCSB w/ rail mounted Reese 15K Pro series hitch) for 3+ years no issue and no slider. Couldn't quite get to 90° (maybe 80+°) when tested on flat ground, but still no issue.

Any & All thoughts would be great.....

[drew999999]

I have the Ford version of the Companion slider and I’ve had zero play when locked in the forward (towing) position. When hooked the entire rig feels very tight and quiet. No doubt you’d be happy with that hitch.

[MustBeNice]

I have the Ford version of the Companion slider and I’ve had zero play when locked in the forward (towing) position. When hooked the entire rig feels very tight and quiet. No doubt you’d be happy with that hitch.

Drew, thanks for your input on the companion sliders quality! May I ask how many times or how often you’ve needed or used it in the rear maneuvering position??

[drew999999]

Drew, thanks for your input on the companion sliders quality! May I ask how many times or how often you’ve needed or used it in the rear maneuvering position??

So far I haven't needed to use it other than testing to make sure I knew how it worked if needed. When I was going through the decision making process as to whether to get the slider or not, I decided that saving money to go without the slider would cost more in the long run if I ended up needed to switch. I will admit that I was able to get my 5er cut pretty sharp before I got close to the cab, and probably could have gotten really close to a true 90 degree turn. But this was on a perfectly level parking lot. Once I got to looking at it and thinking what would happen if I were on unlevel ground, I definitely see how I could make contact very easily with a less tight turn. For me, the option to slide is worth the extra cost and weight. My FW is a 2019 Sprinter model, so it has a pretty well designed front cap with short beds in mind.

[MustBeNice]

Thanks for the additional input..... I completely understand the logic of pay a little extra now instead of a lot later. Which makes me lean towards the slider. But it seems like 95% of those with a slider say the only time they’ve used it is to check how it works and the ones that have had issues (read about a u-turn), it wouldn’t have helped anyways. So that makes me lean back towards the standard.... and just adjust it fully back and just watch what I’m doing?!

[Randallf]

A good rv friend of mine has the same truck and a 35 foot fifthwheel. He did not have a slider hitch and last year we went on a camp trip. Well, guess what? he was driving to the camp site where ther was a sharp turn and he didn't relize how sharp of turn it was . His brand new fifth wheel hit his cab and dented both the rv and his truck
he now owns a slider.
i highly recomend a slider a auto slider

[jim1]

We have a 2011 Ram 3500 short box and pull a 2019 Cougar 315 RLS. We had a Reese Sidewinder pin box installed before we picked up the 5vr. It works excellently, and is like having your hitch 2' further back which provides plenty of clearance in all the tight spots. We had a Reese revolution pin box on our previous 5th wheel and no issues for the 6 years we pulled it everywhere. The decision to get a rotating pin box on our new 5th was a no brainer and we don't have to play the slider game every time we back up. Check it out it works with all makes of hitches.

[MustBeNice]

I'll just put this right here, for update & other's future reference.....

I've finally made my decision on a hitch, placed an order, received, assembled, installed and towed with my new configuration. And the winner is... the B&W Companion 5th Wheel Hitch; model RVK3600. Which was reached after reading many reviews, forum Q&A's and finally speaking to the friendly folks at B&W.

To recap & consolidate my "application & setup"....

Tow Vehicle: 2015 RAM 3500 Laramie, Crew Cab, Short Box (6.5'), 4x4, Single-Rear-Wheel, w/ Cummins 6.7 I6 & Timbren rear load handlers.

Camper: 2016 Keystone Cougar 28DBI 5th Wheel w/ Lippert king pin box, set in the uppermost mounting position.

Hitch: B&W Companion 5th Wheel Hitch; model RVK3600 (For the OEM Towing Prep Package / Factory "'Puck' System), set to the lowest (17") and rear most (-4" behind center of rear axle) mounting position.

With this setup & configuration I was easily able to obtain an approximate 80° / 120° maneuvering angle (depending on how your measuring it, via exterior / interior angle). In this position I still had about 4" of cab to camper cap clearance, and likely could have reached nearly a 85° angle with very minimal clearance. Note: I didn't want to push my luck any further as I was riding in the box watching hitch / bed rail and cab / camper clearance, while the wife drove and we communicated through the rear slider window. :D This was all also observed in an implement dealers overflow gravel parking lot.... that was relatively level.

With that said.... an 80°+ maneuvering angle is more than we've ever needed in any of our camping adventures. Not to mention the stress that an 80-90° turning angle applies to the campers suspension components, frame and tire tread / bead. Not something that is advisable, and is usually avoidable (IMHO).

Now, I'm not advocating that this hitch is the answer to everyone's... Needs, Wants, Application or even Piece of Mind (that an Automatic-Slider would offer. But rather, posting up the results I experienced on a topic that I had many hours of research via product reviews, multiple forum referencing & Q&A's and lastly speaking to the friendly & knowledgeable folks at B&W.

Links to pictures:

The Setup & Clearances @ 80° Turning Angle Link: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1103

Hitch Setup / Configuration Link:https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1102

[notanlines]

Matthew, I believe you made a good choice. And even more so, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement concerning a 90 degree back-up. No way a rig needs that stress.

[JRTJH]

Looks like more than adequate clearance for any situation you'll likely encounter. Many people don't consider that with a travel trailer, you only get 40-45 degrees of backing clearance before the trailer hits the tail lights of the tow vehicle. When we towed TT's, I always was concerned with the stress on axles/wheels at those angles. Now, with the fifth wheel, I get about the same angle capabilities that you get and I really, REALLY cringe when I get even close to that kind of angle when backing the trailer. I honestly don't think I've ever gotten even close to 80 degrees, except when I was trying to see how far I could get before hitting the truck. In normal use, after all those years of towing TT's, I might get to 40 degrees before I pull forward to get the stress off the wheels. I can't imagine "cranking it around" to maximum angles just to keep on going backwards... Pulling forward a couple of feet to straighten out the angle just seems like common sense to me as opposed to increasing the angle and the potential for damage to the axles/wheels.

I've never been in any location where I wished for a sliding hitch, not to say others might not feel the same as me. Anyway, it looks like you've got your hitch problems well in hand and should be set for many years of problem free towing.

[craiggemt]

I'll just put this right here, for update & other's future reference.....

I've finally made my decision on a hitch, placed an order, received, assembled, installed and towed with my new configuration. And the winner is... the B&W Companion 5th Wheel Hitch; model RVK3600. Which was reached after reading many reviews, forum Q&A's and finally speaking to the friendly folks at B&W.

To recap & consolidate my "application & setup"....

Tow Vehicle: 2015 RAM 3500 Laramie, Crew Cab, Short Box (6.5'), 4x4, Single-Rear-Wheel, w/ Cummins 6.7 I6 & Timbren rear load handlers.


I had a similar setup ('16 Ram 2500) with the same hitch. I can tell you from experience, that one time you get distracted for whatever reason and don't pay attention while turning... BOOM! Yep sounds like a shotgun blast when the cab creases ever so slightly and the rear window pops!


Needless to say I'm installing a Demco auto slider. Manual slider would have done me no good in that situation. I wasn't a big fan of the king pin behind the axle but the truck handled great.

[MustBeNice]

I had a similar setup ('16 Ram 2500) with the same hitch. I can tell you from experience, that one time you get distracted for whatever reason and don't pay attention while turning... BOOM! Yep sounds like a shotgun blast when the cab creases ever so slightly and the rear window pops!

Needless to say I'm installing a Demco auto slider. Manual slider would have done me no good in that situation. I wasn't a big fan of the king pin behind the axle but the truck handled great.

I can't argue about distracted driving or lack of situational awareness (as it simply "just happens")..... But the following was my reasoning and thought process when selecting the hitch I did (All of course being "my personal opinions vs. application vs. needs vs. wants vs. budget"):

1) A fixed position OEM style hitch (like the Curt/RAM Q20/Q25 -or- Reese 20K) didn't appear to offer the most flexibility/adjustment and max turning radius as the B&W's (adjustable) fixed option, so they were out.
2) A "Manual Slider" of any brand would not help unless it was actually deployed and only useful in a deployable situation, so it was out.
3) The B&W was designed & tested to work in all the (adjustable)configurations for my truck as an OEM style product.
4) A fixed B&W in the aft-most (adjustable) position appeared to be the better solution for maximum turning clearance.
5) An "Auto Slider" of the weight rating (20K+, for piece of mind) I wanted was beyond the price point I was willing to pay for a hitch in general, needless of it's functionality... period.
6) Wasn't sure if the "J" style movement and the campers pin box / trucks bedside may have issues.... as this X-Lite is one LOW trailer?!
7) From what I read and watched, it sounded like the Auto-Sliders required daily maintenance and frequent adjustment, no thanks. (Not sure if this is True or Not?)
8) And one of the bigger one's that plays into 'piece of mind'..... Wasn't sure if an Auto-Slider would handle or need adjustment every time I pull tandem trailers (doubles). Which is about every other to every third outing.
9) Travel Trailers / Bumper Tow's can only articulate +/- of 45-50° max, so I figured I'd be good and safe at 75-85°.
10) Plus the Running gear stress at 80°+.

So, upon other's (and wiser & experienced) better judgement, I guess we'll be rolling the dice..... until "it" happens! Wish me luck..... or maybe that's what insurance is for?! :D

[notanlines]

JustBeNice, "7) From what I read and watched, it sounded like the Auto-Sliders required daily maintenance and frequent adjustment" Just so new members know, nothing could be farther from the truth. That info you were told is bogus as a football bat. Remember, very few people triple tow more than Brenda and I. We are at the end of our third year with ours and I have yet to do anything but spray a little lube. And I use Lubriplate in a spray can only because a friend used to distribute it. And, since I've crawled all the way up on this box, I no longer use a nylon plate between the fifth wheel and the pin because it didn't fit (slightly too thick). Keep in mind that I think you made a reasonable choice for your situation. I'm done here.:flowers:

[MustBeNice]

Just so new members know, nothing could be farther from the truth. That info you were told is bogus as a football bat. Remember, very few people triple tow more than Brenda and I. We are at the end of our third year with ours and I have yet to do anything but spray a little lube.

That is great information for all to know! Although I'm not sure that it would have swayed my thought process too much.

But I saw it on the internet.... So it must be true? ;) :D :hide:

https://bigstickcombat.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/59916_cardinals_saints_football.jpg

[Big1]

I went with the slider it's just a peace of mind, and even though I did use it twice but it was only because I was trying it out.

[MustBeNice]

I went with the slider it's just a peace of mind, and even though I did use it twice but it was only because I was trying it out.

That was the echoing theme that I kept hearing..... Buy a slider for "piece of mind" and the "only time I ever used it was to test it".

Which from my opinion and trailering experience told me the additional money wasn't worth it's value..... until "it" happens that is! :lol:

[jim1]

Reese Sidewinder rotates 24" to the rear of the hitch giving plenty of clearance for the (old sure I can do that No problem) stuff! But for the non believers it is almost as easy as backing up a bumper tow, turns sooner and sharper and the audience always ask if my hitch is suppose to do that or did I break it.