New Camper!

[Shea]

Hi all!
I’m new here and I’m about to purchase a 2019 Hideout 318LHS. My tow vehicle is a 2018 Silverado 1500 LTZ 4X4, 5.3L V8 with the 3.42 gear ratio. From my research I’m capable of towing 9,200 lbs. So I’m at the upper end of what she can tow. Just wondering if anyone else out there has bought this model yet and how you like it. I would appreciate any feedback!
Thanks everyone and safe travels!!!

[Retired Copper]

At close to 36 feet long, appx. 7700 lbs dry and dry tongue weight of 900lbs, is a lot of camper. 36 feet long is a lot of wind sail for a 1/2 truck to handle I would not pull it. Good luck on your search.

[ctbruce]

Shea, welcome. Dont have your trailer, so cant answer your question. I am sure you'll be able to make some great memories.

I did have a 2015 1500 with same equipment as yours pulling similar sized trailer. It can be done but was not fun. As said, that's a lot of sail behind you. One thing I should have done was change TV tires from the OEM tires. That would have helped and made a better experience. I opted to get a 3500 SRW Duramax instead.

Not trying to Debbie Downer your post, just sharing real world outcomes.

[hornet28]

IMHO too much trailer or too little truck

[maccam1]

shea

i have a 2018 silverado 1500,with max trailering,also a 2016,towing cap of 11,000 lbs
my tt is a 2018 cougar 1/2 ton 32rli..
i have no problem at all towing..

[JRTJH]

That's a "bull dog trailer" behind a "toy poodle truck".... It may "bark and growl with the big guys" but when it comes to packing a big bone out back and getting it buried, well........

[Shea]

You guys have me concerned now. I was initially worried about the weight and of course the salesman said it would be fine. I figured he’d say anything to make a sale. So I decided to consult with my Chevy dealership and they told me that I shouldn’t have anything to worry about even after we add in our gear as it can handle up to 9,100 lbs. But now I’m wondering if I need to rethink the whole thing....

[Logan X]

I don’t mean to pile on, but another number you want to look at is your trucks payload capacity. It’s is listed on the yellow sticker inside the drivers door. That number is the max your truck can carry including all passengers, cargo, and the trailers hitch weight. When loaded, your trailers hitch weight will probably be over 1000 pounds. If you are traveling with a spouse and kids, that is another 400-600 pounds. Plus any cargo (ice chest, bikes, firewood, hitch, tools, etc), you may be pushing the trucks payload capacity.

[MarkEHansen]

I think there are some good RV sales folks out there, that will honestly tell you how much you can safely tow with your truck, but I've not met any yet. The truck dealers aren't motivated in the same way as your RV dealer, but I think they just don't know (in general).

We had a 1/2 ton tow vehicle which based on the max tow weight seemed to be adequate for our trailer. We quickly realized it wasn't - that's when we came here and began getting advice and training from all the great knowledgeable folks here. We've since traded our 1/2-ton in for a 1-ton truck. Much better now.

There's more to what it takes to tow than just the max vehicle weight, so listen to the advise and make your decision.

Good luck - and good for you for asking.

[crk112]

There is something to be said for surface area... it's no exaggeration when people compare these trailers to a "sail". Even with a nice cushion between your trailer weight and your max tow, you're at the mercy of the air and wind. The lighter the truck and shorter the wheelbase, the more so you are.

I know how excited you must be right now, about to buy the first camper and you can't wait to get it out there! It's a very exciting time and you want everything to go well so you can jump right in. I don't like adding to the discouragement but I'd hate even more for you to have a bad experience or worse, an accident.

Your truck could haul a couple or three pallets of bricks on a trailer without breaking a sweat... but with that TT you've also got an enormous surface area to pull through the air which has a much bigger impact on your tow experience than you might expect. Side winds, large vehicles passing you, turbulence, and just pulling even on a calm-wind day.. you're really gonna feel that 36-foot TT and it will push your truck around. Not a fun experience and you'll grow to dread pulling it anywhere (or worse, develop an unrecoverable sway and have an accident).

(Also, others have touched on your vehicle payload capacity, that's worth your time to investigate as well. After your hitch and tongue weights, you'll run out pretty fast depending on how much you pack.)

I'm glad you took the dealer's word with a grain of salt... With some campers it's misleading to advertise them as "half-ton campers" but it's all about sales. If the numbers "line up" that's all they look at but there's more to it than simple math.

I'd encourage you to take a look at some floor plans in the 24-28 foot range and see if there's something you like. Even with two kids and two dogs we are comfortable in our 26-foot Hideout. Plus the weights of these trailers will give you more of that valuable "cushion" between that and your tow vehicle limit. Alternatively perhaps it's a good time to check out a truck upgrade?

RVing is about having fun and we want you to have fun just as much as you do! This is quite a friendly and informative place and the folks here share their experiences in hopes you'll have a better experience.

I hope we haven't discouraged you too much... please keep us posted on your journey !!

[travelin texans]

This has been said A LOT on here!
Dry rv weights, tongue/hitch/trailer, mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to the rv buyer, that's what they weighed coming off the assembly line & will NEVER EVER weigh that little again. Same as the max tow weight of your tv, you'll almost always exceed the max payload long before you'll tow max weight. Unfortunately the rv industry has deceived a lot of buyers with their "half ton towable" misadvertising & neither rv nor truck dealers know or care about what you can/can't tow, selling is their goal.
Use the GVW of the rv times 20% to get a VERY reasonable hitch weiht for a 5th wheel plus the weight of the hitch, people, & anything in or added to your truck & compare that to the payload of your tv then you'll have honest numbers to work with.
Unfortunately I'd have to agree with others here, too much rv & not enough truck.
If by chance you go with this rv & upgrade trucks, go with the 3500 not the 2500, not much difference in the ride & very little difference in price.

[sourdough]

Shea, good on you for double checking on your potential purchase. So many make the purchase then ask the important questions. Here is a link to the specs of the proposed RV:

https://www.keystonerv.com/travel-trailers/hideout/floorplans/318lhs-travel-trailer/

I hate to sound like everyone is piling on but I think you can get the jist that you are biting off more than the truck, or you, will be comfortable with.

Note that the gvw of the trailer is 9700 lbs. (shipping weight + carrying capacity) which is the number you need to use for calculations. Your max truck tow weight is 9200 lbs. so that is exceeded already. The "loaded" tongue weight of that trailer should be calculated using the gvw (9700lbs) x .12 (12%) = 1164 lbs. This is about as close as your going to get when guesstimating.

Hopefully your trailer won't be loaded to gvw which would be stretching things as well, but you need to figure that because at some point you might and you have to be prepared for that. To that 1164 add 100lbs for the wdh = 1264lbs. Now look at the sticker inside your driver door and see what the payload is for your truck. Subtract the 1264 from that and see where you are. Whatever is left is the max you could have loaded into/onto the truck; people, gear, tools, ice chests, toys, bbq grill, etc. Personally, I take the payload on the sticker and reduce it by 15% to give me a little bit of safety margin and try to stay around that number. But, I have been in the exact same predicament as you with almost the same loading numbers and I can assure you that although "pulling" the trailer was not a problem, "handling" the trailer was not fun except on straight roads with no traffic - not ideal for traveling.

The "sales" folks at both RV dealerships or truck dealerships are usually, unfortunately, totally ignorant of what is required for a truck to safely tow (pull plus carry) an RV. The sales person just wants to make a sale, after that you might as well ask a glass blower how to set the timing on a '83 Jeep CJ7 (mine :D) - won't have any idea.

Hope this doesn't sound like you're being "blasted" or anything like that. This is a great, knowledgeable and helpful bunch that truly does have your best interests in mind and hope to help you avoid making the same mistakes that many/most of us have had to pay for in the past. Hope you stick around and ask questions. If you do decide to go with you initial route, please post back here so that we can give you options for a safer experience. That large of a trailer on the back of an untouched 1/2 ton will not only be miserable, but generally dangerous. And yes, there will be some that say they do it all the time with no problems...tain't so. Usually simply because they have no reference (I was one at one time). Keep us posted.

[GMcKenzie]

For comparison, I have a trailer with a gross loaded weight rating of 8,200 lbs (and I've hit that per scales). My truck has a max trailering package and 10,800 pound trailer limit. I'm at my max payload (2015) with my trailer. I would not tow anything heavier with a 1/2 ton, and mine is set up well from the factory.

If you are a GM guy, the new 2020 3/4 ton's look really interesting.

[Shea]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I’ve been on the phone with the Chevy dealer and the RV dealer all day. Both of them are giving me the green light and I’ve brought up a lot of these concerns. The RV dealer is saying that the hitch/weight distribution/sway bar that I’m getting will take 30% of the weight off of the tuck and distribut it throughout the coach? He said that he has a lighter weight coach that is priced similar that we could check out but we some of the beds. But he’s been “assured” by his techs/service manager that I’ll have no problems with my truck after they looked up all of my specs and that it will be safe to tow. He said the big difference will be the speed in which I can travel. He said those size trailers are rated for 65 mph so my SD trips will take longer since I shouldn’t be doing the 80 mph speed limit. Unless of course I swap out the OEM tires on the coach. My current camper is just a 4500# Jayco Jay Feather 23B hybrid so this is uncharted territory for me. Why do these things have to be so difficult lol!!!

[spade117]

My current camper is just a 4500# Jayco Jay Feather 23B hybrid so this is uncharted territory for me. Why do these things have to be so difficult lol!!!

First off - I love your user name.

Similarly, my previous trailer was a hybrid of similar weight and length. I did some of the same research you are doing now and was not content with what the numbers showed (for a 3030BH of similar length and weight that you are looking into) regardless of what the service people told me.

It sounds like you have not finalized either deal yet, so I would also recommend going up in truck size or down in camper size.

[sourdough]

Shea, the folks you are talking to don't know what they are talking about. If a wdh increased the payload of the truck why wouldn't your owner's manual say that? It doesn't. Why wouldn't the manufacturer of the wdh tell you that? They don't. That's because it doesn't. The folks advising you here actually tow real rvs with real trucks and know of what they speak. Your dealers are apparently clueless and certainly don't have your wellbeing in mind.

Here's a couple of things you need to do with both dealerships and their management;

First ask the service managers and those telling you all is OK to list the type of trailer they have, what they pull it with and how many miles they tow yearly. That will eliminate 90-100% of the "experts" advising you. Whatever the answer you receive, you have far more experience and knowledge talking to you here than they will possibly have.

Secondly, tell them that you have received extensive advice about the dangers this combination poses due to being overweight but you are taking their advice that you are going to be fine physically and legally. But, you want a written, notarized document from each dealer specifying that you will be legal in all weight categories when the trailer is loaded to gvw and that they will be responsible for any accidents, citations or other issues arising from being overweight. - Not gonna happen. Why? Because they are wrong and know they are (or maybe the "ones" saying don't but I assure you their legal dept. won't back them).

[travelin texans]

Tell both those dealers you've got some ocean front property in Arizona with a great view, no problem walking right into the water!
Same thing their trying to sell you.
Which one or both have said "you'll be able to tow anything on the lot with that truck, NO PROBLEM!.
I'm sorry, but both are doing their very best to sell you something you'll regret down the road & spoil a great experience.
As I said earlier, skip the new 2020 2500 & go with the 3500, then in a couple years when you look to upgrade you'll have more wiggle room.

[Carrottop]

I have to agree with the group here. I tow with an F-150 and feel that it can be done safely with certain trailers. I know the majority of the group here will and do disagree with me, the general Conesus is to always go to a 3/4 ton or 1 ton. I have to say though that your combination made me cringe. That is a lot of trailer behind a light duty truck. With those weights I cannot see how you would ever be under your Payload capacity and GAWR. My trailer is only 29ft long and dry weight of 4800lbs with a GVR of 7000 and I would not dream of anything bigger with my 1/2 ton. Regardless of what the salesmen are telling you I think you need to rethink this. At a minimum have the RV dealer hook that trailer up to your truck before you buy it and take it for a good long drive on the highway, that alone will convince you that this is an ill conceived idea.

[Shea]

So given all of these responses, I'm seriously rethinking this TT. Interested to see what the group recommends as a good "ballpark" weight range for my TV. Just to clarify, I have owned my truck for over a year and my cousin was my salesman and is my contact person. Hate to believe that they would steer me wrong, but maybe they just aren't as educated in this area.

[Retired Copper]

Shea what is the payload on your yellow sticker?

[sourdough]

Shea, look inside the driver door and look at the stickers that will give you payload capacity and your gawr front and rear. Those are the numbers you really need to get an idea of where you can be towing a trailer.

I doubt seriously your cousin is trying to give you bad advice. I personally think he is just not knowledgeable about towing and relies on the "max tow rating" as so many do. In reality that number is literally fiction because it is based on a stripped down 2 door model with nothing in it that no one would ever buy and max towing capabilities built in. You will exceed your payload, and probably gawrs before you get close to that number unless you bought "that" specific truck.

RV towing and balancing weights can be complicated if you aren't familiar with it. "Sales" folks have no idea and are not trained in that - they spout what they are told and the information they are provided - don't understand it and don't question it. Same goes for the "service manager" or "techs" in a truck dealership OR RV dealership. Unless they have been through the typical RV ownership loop; bought it, fought it, broke it, sold it, (then 1st upgrade) bought it, fought it, it broke me, sold it....finally learned...upgrade truck, get trailer that fits...bought it, WOW that's fun and here we GO!! That after many thousands of dollars down the drain as we "learned".

You have taken the proper route IMO and are asking folks that do this. That is commendable, thoughtful and I hope beneficial for you and yours in the long run. Get those numbers and post back. There are lots of really good folks here that only want you to get off on the right foot and have a ton of "safe" fun with the family. Let us know.

[Shea]

Ok here is what I found. Hopefully this makes sense to you guys lol! Thanks again for all the help!!!!!

GVWR-7200 LB
GAWR FRT- 3950 LB
GAWR RR- 3950 LB
CARGO WEIGHT RATING =925 LB
The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1675 LBS
Max tow rating 9,100 LBS

[sourdough]

How big is your family? Ages - approx. weights? What kind of camping do you think you will do - primitive (need generator), always in improved RV campgrounds etc.? What do you want to take with you; bbq pit, extra camp table, folding camp chairs, bicycles, etc.? Remember that you will need to take a fair amount of tools, jacks and levelers with you in the event something breaks.

These are not prying questions; they are literally what you will want to use to ascertain what it is that you will take and what it will weigh. I know if you've never done it before but weight, weight, weight when towing long distances, and with "big" weights, is extremely important. A failure when overloaded with a vehicle incapable of controlling it can be disastrous. Let us know - and thanks.

[Shea]

There's 3 of us ages 30, 36, and 11 with a combined weight of about 565 LBS. We always camp with electrical hook up at a minimum and never take a generator. I fill my fresh water tank at the campground. I take a cooler, small weber grill, 3 camp chairs, and occasionally a mountain bike. I have leveling blocks and chocks as well as a cordless drill. Other than that it's just basic kitchen and bedding equipment.

[sourdough]

Shea, I apologize. I spent the last 30 minutes composing a post that addressed where you are and where you might go but the site has again dropped me when I tried to post and there is no way to recover it - I'm sorry. I did not copy it before posting as I've learned I must do here. I don't have the time to make those observations or recommendations again at the moment. My analysis was, and will be, in depth but requires too much time to do again tonite. I will try again tomorrow.

[OMW2SKI]

New member here. Second year camping.

After setting up the WD hitch and loading my new trailer, I went for a couple hours test tow over the weekend.

I've got a well equipped half ton. My trailer is a 24 foot bunkhouse, GVWR 7000 lbs.

The tow was comfortable. I wouldn't recommend much more for any half ton. Even with "only" 7000 pounds GVWR (tow capacity 10,200), I can see why others recommend stepping up to a HD truck for similarly sized trailers...

I think you should look at a 26 foot model that weighs 8000 lbs GVWR max. Idk, maybe that's you much. I wanted the 26 foot model and decided it was too much for me.

Good luck!

[JRTJH]

The GVW of the trailer is 9700 pounds. Typically, tongue weight is 10-15% of GVW. Let's "assume" you can tow at the extreme lightest tongue weight (970 pounds). It's possible, but unlikely that your rig will tow satisfactorily with such a light tongue, but possible. You'll probably be closer to 12% (1164 pounds).

Now, let's do some simple math using your truck payload of 1675 pounds.

Your family (it will weigh more as your child grows) 565 pounds
Trailer tongue weight 970 pounds
Equalizer hitch 100 pounds
TOTAL 565+970+100 = 1635 pounds. That's 40 pounds under your MAXIMUM payload and you haven't put in a cooler, jackets, firewood, a tool kit, the kid's bicycle, or ??????

Maybe this will give you some idea of just where you stand with such a large trailer and such a small payload capacity?????

The numbers simply don't add up to being able to toss a couple of folding chairs, a tonneau cover, a kayak, the dog, well, hopefully you get the idea that there's just not any capacity to "tow the rig" and stay under your payload.....

Remember: The above numbers are based on "hoping" that you can tow that trailer at the "very lowest percentage of tongue weight" (970) chances are you'll be closer to the middle (around 1200+)

[Shea]

Shea, I apologize. I spent the last 30 minutes composing a post that addressed where you are and where you might go but the site has again dropped me when I tried to post and there is no way to recover it - I'm sorry. I did not copy it before posting as I've learned I must do here. I don't have the time to make those observations or recommendations again at the moment. My analysis was, and will be, in depth but requires too much time to do again.

No worries. I appreciate the help. There is just so much information, much of which is very contradictory from one another. I will continue to do my research and the dealership has allowed me to take it for a "test pull" before signing on Saturday. They said that they don't normally allow it due to insurance but as long as I am ok with the sales person going, they will give the ok. They do want me to look at a lighter back up TT just in case i'm not comfortable with how the 318LHS tows. But they are confident that it will pull just fine after they properly install the hitch/weight distribution/sway bar. Thanks again for your help Sourdough and to everyone else that took the time share you knowledge. In the meantime, I'm all ears to suggestions and advise. I'll update everyone when I decide what I end up doing.

[MarkEHansen]

Perhaps I missed it, but I think the only information contrary to what folks are telling you here is what you're being told by the RV dealer (and to some extend, the truck dealer). It's unfortunate, but in my experience the RV dealer really doesn't have your best interest in mind - only his sale - and more than likely, a simple ignorance of the real weight limits involved in matching a trailer to a tow vehicle.

I commend you for taking the time to learn this stuff. I didn't do it until it cost me a lot of money. Perhaps you can safe yourself that problem.

Best of luck.

[sourdough]

No worries. I appreciate the help. There is just so much information, much of which is very contradictory from one another. I will continue to do my research and the dealership has allowed me to take it for a "test pull" before signing on Saturday. They said that they don't normally allow it due to insurance but as long as I am ok with the sales person going, they will give the ok. They do want me to look at a lighter back up TT just in case i'm not comfortable with how the 318LHS tows. But they are confident that it will pull just fine after they properly install the hitch/weight distribution/sway bar. Thanks again for your help Sourdough and to everyone else that took the time share you knowledge. In the meantime, I'm all ears to suggestions and advise. I'll update everyone when I decide what I end up doing.

Shea, whoooa! How many trailers have you pulled? What will your "test pull" be compared against? Will you have any idea that you are overloaded? Will they let you take the trailer on backroads and interstates with semis beating you up? Are they going to take you to a scale? And more than anything else.....what would it mean? Towing an empty trailer with an empty truck? What does that prove? Nothing.

You are letting the "salesmen" and your desire for a "big" trailer, far more than you should tow with a family, let you drag you into the rabbit hole.

You seem to want to know, to keep you and yours safe; you are about to bite on the biggest fools tale out there....don't, for you and yours IMO. Your numbers DO NOT work for that trailer.

[Local150]

For me, I don't do winter camping so if you don't either a smaller trailer would probably work,, as for me anyway I don't spend a lot of time in the trailer, unless it storms then no trailer is big enough. I have a 1500 Silverado and pull a 29 ft. Fifth wheel,, it pulls good get behind a semi and gets a little turbulent but really not bad,, and mine is a 5.3

[Local150]

Before I bought my 5ver I told the dealer I wa ted to hook up and drive it 30 miles or so, I already had the 5th wheel mounted from last trailer. He said ok, and if he would have said no,, I would have told him to stick,,, well I wont go on but am sure you get the drift

[Shea]

Here is another one that I found that will work for us. It's a 2018 Keystone Laredo 250BH.
Shipping Weight
6193 LBS
Carrying Capacity
2207 LBS
GVWR
8400 LBS
Hitch
760 LBS
Length
29' 11"
Height
11' 1"
Thoughts?

[ctbruce]

This is an excellent video that will help you match your truck with trailer.
https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

[sourdough]

Here is another one that I found that will work for us. It's a 2018 Keystone Laredo 250BH.
Shipping Weight
6193 LBS
Carrying Capacity
2207 LBS
GVWR
8400 LBS
Hitch
760 LBS
Length
29' 11"
Height
11' 1"
Thoughts?


Take gvw of the trailer, multiply it by .12 - in this case =1008lbs. Deduct that plus 100lbs for hitch and then all the things you have to load from the payload. I believe my previous post left you with about 755 lbs. of payload after deducting family (a bit of expansion for growth), toys, bbq (whatever you listed), then the tools you really need to carry etc. (minimal estimates). I think I came up with a trailer with a gvw of 6500 or so. IF you managed weights (not running at gvw of the trailer) I think I came to a trailer of 7000-7500. Those numbers were to keep it manageable for you (driving) and safe (for the family). The final numbers were the max I would ever tow with a 1/2 ton and feel safe...hopefully. I've towed much more for a short time...and won't again.

Edit: I may have figured a break on gvw of the trailer in my original computations.

[travelin texans]

In your case with NO experience towing taking the salesman, probably with even less experience towing, along will only add to the confusion. You don't know what to expect towing while he/she is sitting along side telling what a good job your truck is doing, don't see this being much help to you.
Maybe your cousin could make you a helluva deal on a 3500 Duramax then you can go buy the rv of your choice. Or at least let him read all the info on how to determine real tow weights you've gotten here so he won't steer the next person, family or someone else, down the wrong path.

[MarkEHansen]

I think if the salesman starts being honest about what people can really tow, he won't be working there much longer :(

[spade117]

Here is another one that I found that will work for us. It's a 2018 Keystone Laredo 250BH.
Shipping Weight
6193 LBS
Carrying Capacity
2207 LBS
GVWR
8400 LBS
Hitch
760 LBS
Length
29' 11"
Height
11' 1"
Thoughts?

I think that would be the maximum trailer your truck could match up with and still be below all the limits.

[busterbrown]

I can't add too much to the conversation as most of the comments delivered have spelled it out nicely for the OP.

What I can tell the OP is that I purchased the 7600# GVWR trailer in my signature 3 years ago. At the time, I owned a 1/2 ton with a Blue OX sway pro hitch. Payload was about 1550 lbs. On on 4th trip out in early July, we experienced some severe cross 40 MPH crosswinds on the return leg. Boy, that was a "tow" altering, white-knuckle experience. The very next week, I purchased a very expensive Hensley to eliminate the dreaded sway. It worked but it also put me over on payload. By the start of season #2, we had sold our 1/2 ton and bought ourselves the 2500 Megacab Ram in my signature.

Now, my towing experience is completely relaxed, my wife can be in the driver's seat as much as me, and we can bring all the toys our 3 little boys want on our camping adventures. We're 4 days into our 5,000 mile trip across the southwest and the rig has pulled like a dream.

The best part about having a very capable TV is the stress-free conditions it provides. Our RAM (with Hensley) is the perfect tow package that I assumed my 1/2 ton would have provided. Boy, was I wrong 3 years ago. As we say around here frequently, "Been there, done that".

[Super55]

Plug your truck and passenger weights into this calculater. It will give you an estimated trailer weight for your tow vehicle. http://www.towingplanner.com/Calculators/TowingPayloadEstimate

[travelin texans]

Be sure when using that calculator DO NOT enter dry rv weights or dry pin/hitch weights, use the gross weight of the rv with 20% of that for 5th wheel & 12% for tongue weight.
Dry rv weights mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to the rv buyer!!!