Laredo hitch weight

[75mike]

How you doing everybody I'm new to this forum, the question I'm trying to shed some light on is I'm currently looking at a Laredo 296sbh 5th wheel. I'm going to pull it with a 2014 ram 2500 diesel and for most of you ram owners know the payload on these trucks is a little on the low side mine being 2300 pounds. Well this particular fifth wheel show the specs and says it has a hitch weight of 1920 lb which to me seems a little heavy considering the trailer is only 34 ft long and weighs 9225 lb dry. I spoke to somebody at the local RV dealer who sells these trailers and he says that that particular model they may have rated the hitch weight with a fully loaded trailer which would be 10600 pounds that would kind of make more sense to me. Because 1920 lb of hitch weight on a 9225 lb trailer seems kind of heavy. if anybody could share or shed some light on this would be helpful....

[MarkEHansen]

When considering what it will take to tow the trailer, you should not be considering the dry trailer weight. It will never, ever weigh this while towing. All the calculations should be done based on the GVWR for the trailer.


If you already have the trailer, you can load it up the way you would for a trip and take it to the scales and have it weighed. If you're trying to decide on which trailer before purchase, then you should use the GVWR.


The 2300 lb payload is not that much when considering 5th wheel trailers. One possibility is to consider bumper-pull trailers instead.

[75mike]

what really bothers me is is I look at other trailers of the same weight the same length almost the same configuration some of them are in the Laredo lineup have a hitch weight of five to six hundred pounds less than the 296sbh. Which in comparison makes absolutely no sense so either keystone has the wrong hitch weight rating on this particular trailer or they can figure it it completely wrong. I'm also looking at a Forest River product Arctic Wolf 295qsl8 which is heavier and the hitch weight is 500 to 600 pounds less. I've been camping for about 18 years now iPhone 5 different trailers one of them was a fifth wheel so I'm not new to towing it's just these weight numbers don't add up...

[sourdough]

what really bothers me is is I look at other trailers of the same weight the same length almost the same configuration some of them are in the Laredo lineup have a hitch weight of five to six hundred pounds less than the 296sbh. Which in comparison makes absolutely no sense so either keystone has the wrong hitch weight rating on this particular trailer or they can figure it it completely wrong. I'm also looking at a Forest River product Arctic Wolf 295qsl8 which is heavier and the hitch weight is 500 to 600 pounds less. I've been camping for about 18 years now iPhone 5 different trailers one of them was a fifth wheel so I'm not new to towing it's just these weight numbers don't add up...


The only accurate way to even get close to what the trailer will weigh on your truck is to take the gvwr of the trailer, dry weight plus carrying weight, then multiply that by 20%. You will get as close as possible (just guessing) without a scale weight. Using dry weights has no bearing whatsoever to real life just like reading Keystone's posted tongue weights. If you look over the stats of dozens upon dozens of their trailers as I have you will find they make mistakes on tongue weights, number of tanks, sizes of tanks etc. etc. Use the above formula and it will give you an idea of what you can, or can't, safely tow. Don't look for some kind of "mistake" you think is there to justify a bad choice.


The gvwr of the trailer you are looking at is 10,600 x .20 = 2120 - too much for your 2300 lbs. of payload - which is barely more than some 1/2 tons.

https://www.keystonerv.com/fifth-wheels/laredo/floorplans/296sbh-super-lite-fifth-wheel/

[notanlines]

Mike, if you came to this forum looking to get a verbal 'OK' from the masses and then head down the highway with your new 5'ver in tow you probably have joined the wrong forum. If you are looking for accurate advice that you can use to make a smart decision then you have succeeded.
You don't have as much truck as your non-RV'ing buddies want you to believe. You have plenty of truck to tow many, many nice bumper pulls. You simply can't join the big 5'ver club and tow with that truck.
The vast majority of RAM salespeople will tell you that same old phrase "This truck will tow anything on the lot."
Only the CAT scale will tell you the gospel truth. And they don't make mistakes!

[75mike]

I understand what you're saying and I'm not new to towing. iPhone 3 3500 duallys and for 3/4 tons all of them or diesel Ford and Dodges. and I'm not talking about the towing or payload capacity of my particular truck I'm talking about the hitch weight number on this particular trailer does not make sense. My trucks towing capability is 17125 lb it's gross vehicle combined weight rating is 25,000 pounds I completely 100% understand how to figure in calculate what I can and can't tow but I'm not talkin about my tow vehicle. I'm talking about a small half ton rated 34 ft fifth wheel that weighs 9225 lb which if I hook to my truck I wouldn't even know it was behind me. The question I'm asking IS OR HAS ANYBODY QUESTIONED ANY OF THESE RATINGS WITH KEYSTONE PRESENT AND IN THE PAST? The local keystone dealer where I live is actually going to find out what the real life hitch weight number is I was just wondering if anybody else on this forum had any issues with any of these products in these numbers being incorrect?

[75mike]

Yah, I know it's light but its a real number. I don't get it my self....

[75mike]

I have compared dozens on 5ers out there of the same length, weight, keystone, Forest river, etc, even floor plans and almost all of them weigh more and the hitch weight is 500 to 700 lbs lighter. ..

[sourdough]

I understand what you're saying and I'm not new to towing. iPhone 3 3500 duallys and for 3/4 tons all of them or diesel Ford and Dodges. and I'm not talking about the towing or payload capacity of my particular truck I'm talking about the hitch weight number on this particular trailer does not make sense. My trucks towing capability is 17125 lb it's gross vehicle combined weight rating is 25,000 pounds I completely 100% understand how to figure in calculate what I can and can't tow but I'm not talkin about my tow vehicle. I'm talking about a small half ton rated 34 ft fifth wheel that weighs 9225 lb which if I hook to my truck I wouldn't even know it was behind me. The question I'm asking IS OR HAS ANYBODY QUESTIONED ANY OF THESE RATINGS WITH KEYSTONE PRESENT AND IN THE PAST? The local keystone dealer where I live is actually going to find out what the real life hitch weight number is I was just wondering if anybody else on this forum had any issues with any of these products in these numbers being incorrect?


I know you've done this forever so I guess I'm confused how the dealer is going to give you a real life weight of an empty trailer before it is even prepped to use or loaded, and more importantly, why it is important? You keep posting that your truck is not the issue; how much it can tow etc. What it can "carry" is far more important - and therein lies your problem whether you admit it or not.

As I mentioned in my previous posts Keystone HAS posted some weights that don't make sense both for tongue weights (bumper pulls), pin weights (5th wheels) and other similar data. I figure that it doesn't (shouldn't) mean much to prospective buyers because they actually do give accurate numbers for dry weights and carrying weights in my experience. That's all you should need to guesstimate a pin weight as I illustrated above.

If you think that Keystone is going to worry about a typo, or miscalculation like that out of the thousands they provide, investigate it and then provide you or the dealer a comprehensive answer before you buy a trailer.....you're talking about a needless exercise in futility and wasted time for all parties IMO.

Edit: Forgot to mention that they are posting an estimated 20% of the dry weight for the dry pin weight which is about as accurate as you can get until you load it and get a scale weight - which will be more. Forest River is "guesstimating" the dry pin weight at 15% - low and misleading trying to lure folks to the product? The gvw is 10,920 so you will be in even worse shape than the Laredo....in real life.

[JRTJH]

According to the RAM towing guide for 2014 https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2014_RAM.2500.Towing.Specs.pdf a crew cab short bed 4x4 diesel Tradesman payload is around 2400 pounds and a Laramie payload is around 1950 pounds. So your truck payload "PROBABLY" ranges somewhere between those two numbers...

That said, it's NOT how much the truck is rated to TOW, but how much it's rated to CARRY (payload). If you consider that all trailers are not the same, towing a bulldozer on a flatbed trailer is significantly different than towing a "RV" with a 12'x34' sidewall sail. So, just because a truck is RATED to tow a specific weight does not mean it can tow that much weight with any type/style trailer you can hitch behind it.

As for "why" Keystone made a mistake with the pin weight of the 296SBH, what's to say that Forest River didn't make the mistake with their model ???

I'm not saying Keystone is correct, or that FR is wrong, I'm saying that there's no way to "look at specs" and make the determination who is correct. The ONLY way to do that is to hitch the trailer to your truck, tow it to an accurate scale and roll up onto the scale pads. Until you do that, it's all speculation.

Now as for speculating. Your 2500 is not equipped to tow a 34' fifth wheel, not even a "half ton, super lite model"....

If you take the GVW of the trailer (10600) and calculate 20% for the typical pin weight (2120) then add 125 pounds for your hitch, you'll get roughly 2245 pounds for the trailer and hitch. Now since you're buying a bunkhouse model, I'd guess there's more than two people in your family. Add their weights and then add any cargo you'll be carrying in the truck and you'll see that it's very easy for a family of 5 to weigh 750 pounds or more, a generator and 5 gallons of gas (175) tools (50) firewood (50) and suddenly, your
"well qualified RAM" with a tow rating of 17,125 pounds is significantly overloaded (payload of 2200 pounds) when you put everyone in the truck and hitch the trailer. In fact, you'll likely be close to 3300 pounds, nearly 1000 pounds over your payload rating.

That's not a comfortable place to be when your family's safety depends on you making wise decisions about an RV. Honestly, even though it's advertised as a "super light fifth wheel" and many models can be towed by a "properly equipped half ton truck" that doesn't mean that your "super heavy diesel engine equipped 3/4 ton truck has enough payload to safely tow that trailer. Honestly, it's really in the "one ton diesel" range when you add a family and camping gear, especially if you want an automatic sliding hitch to go along with the mix.....

[kfxgreenie]

If the dealer has it on the lot see if you can pull it to a scale. I can tell you that your truck can do at least that much safely and you won't die. That is unless the man upstairs has your number chosen already.

[sourdough]

If the dealer has it on the lot see if you can pull it to a scale. I can tell you that your truck can do at least that much safely and you won't die. That is unless the man upstairs has your number chosen already.


Now, now. Be careful of what you guarantee or think is certain.:) I have seen poor choices and "taking a chance" move someone's "number" from obscure to first in line in many, many situations. The man upstairs didn't choose or move that number....the choices did. Just a little food for thought from sunny FL. on a beautiful, 80 degree Saturday afternoon.:D

Anyway, as a dealer I wouldn't let any of my units leave the lot with everyone that wanted to come in and "verify" how much they weigh. The numbers are available - just use them.

[75mike]

I’m not new to towing, sales people, trucks, it was just a question. Don’t need lecture. Got 4 kids one a combat medic in the army. I would never endanger my family or anyone else on the road. Again, it was a question. My payload is 2250, max tow is 17150, gvcw is 25k I currently tow a 35’ flag staff tt and going to move up to a 5er. I just came on this forum to find out if anyone questioned any thing like this....

[sourdough]

I’m not new to towing, sales people, trucks, it was just a question. Don’t need lecture. Got 4 kids one a combat medic in the army. I would never endanger my family or anyone else on the road. Again, it was a question. My payload is 2250, max tow is 17150, gvcw is 25k I currently tow a 35’ flag staff tt and going to move up to a 5er. I just came on this forum to find out if anyone questioned any thing like this....


I think you've found most would question "any thing like this". You're not being lectured....just folks pointing out obvious problems, hopefully things you can see and react to, trying to be helpful and keep you and yours safe. You said you have been towing for a long time and don't need lectures - you asked...and I have to think it's because you know it's not a good idea. Not being ugly but there is no way a knowledgeable, safe person would strap a 11k 5ver, with a pin weight of 2200, on a 3/4 ton with a 2250 payload - those numbers have been pointed out.

Always remember max tow is totally meaningless along with gcvwr - they are sales numbers to give you the max numbers to sell you. You will exceed payload and gawr, which you ignore, long before the others...generally. You can't pick and choose the numbers you want to try and meet...you have to (should to be safe) meet all of them - and, IMO, have a 15% cushion.

My truck has a 3200 lb. payload. I won't strap a 2200 lb. pin weight on it and feel comfortable. I like safety margins along with the ability to actually carry what I want. You couldn't possibly hope for that with the combo you suggest..you might not even be able to take the DW.:nonono:

Being able to "tow" a 35' Flagstaff tt really has nothing to do with safely "carrying" the much larger pin weight of a 5vr....

You are knowledgeable and have towed for years...I'm sure you already knew all that. Just trying to give some things to think about.

Edit: My son was also in the "army", "airborne" and Rangers and fought in Desert Shield and then again in Desert Storm. He is 51 this year but don't know what that has to do with towing overweight....:)

[rhagfo]

I’m not new to towing, sales people, trucks, it was just a question. Don’t need lecture. Got 4 kids one a combat medic in the army. I would never endanger my family or anyone else on the road. Again, it was a question. My payload is 2250, max tow is 17150, gvcw is 25k I currently tow a 35’ flag staff tt and going to move up to a 5er. I just came on this forum to find out if anyone questioned any thing like this....

Well to answer your question I thought I saw a possible swapped set of numbers.

Key specifications - 296SBH SUPER-LITE FIFTH WHEEL
Shipping Weight 9,335#
Carrying Capacity 1,265#
Hitch 1,920#
Length 33' 8"
Height 12' 10"

Then I looked at other Laredo 5er's and all have ridiculously low Carrying Capacity!!! The 296SBH is only 1,265#, the 291SMK next smaller only has 1,474# Carrying Capacity, and the 298SRL next larger only has 1,089# Carrying Capacity! That is way too low for a 5er over 33' in length.

You might look into the Cougar 1/2 Ton line, larger Carrying Capacity and slightly lighter pin weights.

[fjr vfr]

Just an example here; I tow a Laredo 265rl 30' trailer with a gvw of 10,600. Meaningless dry weight of 7,700 lbs. My pin weight is listed at 1,375 lbs.
I weighed this trailer loaded at a little over 10,000 lbs and my pin weight came in at just about 2,000 lbs. That's just about 20% of loaded weight.
The only real way to know weights is on a scale. Anything else is speculation.

[CWtheMan]

How you doing everybody I'm new to this forum, the question I'm trying to shed some light on is I'm currently looking at a Laredo 296sbh 5th wheel. I'm going to pull it with a 2014 ram 2500 diesel and for most of you ram owners know the payload on these trucks is a little on the low side mine being 2300 pounds. Well this particular fifth wheel show the specs and says it has a hitch weight of 1920 lb which to me seems a little heavy considering the trailer is only 34 ft long and weighs 9225 lb dry. I spoke to somebody at the local RV dealer who sells these trailers and he says that that particular model they may have rated the hitch weight with a fully loaded trailer which would be 10600 pounds that would kind of make more sense to me. Because 1920 lb of hitch weight on a 9225 lb trailer seems kind of heavy. if anybody could share or shed some light on this would be helpful....

I frequently provide the following information. It's true and accurate and I can provide the standard and the actual paragraph at request.

The published hitch weight you speak of above is a little over 18% of the trailers GVWR. By all math models for 5th wheel hitch weights it's in the ballpark.

That particular figure - 1920# - is a mandatory figure the trailer builder must provide to NHTSA to satisfy federal vehicle certification. This is the simple math Keystone has provided for certification on your trailer. Total vehicle certified GAWR weights added to the published tongue/hitch weight must not be less than GVWR. Once you own the vehicle you're 100% responsible for it's tongue/hitch weight.

I've looked at the specs for your trailer. I see nothing wrong with Keystone's math in those figures.

[notanlines]

Hey all, let's take one step back and all welcome a new member who has stood up to our banter with the best of them. Not only that, the whole conversation has been kept to a very civil level! We don't have enough women in our conversations as a general rule. Active members from Georgia, Minnesota and Texas quickly come to mind, but we can always use another. No, in this day and age we NEED more women members.
Uh, Mike, welcome to the forum from sunny southern Florida!
Jim

[rbrdriver]

I concur with others that if you are going to pull a fifth wheel of any size above 32 feet or more you should consider moving up to a 1ton, and probably a dually. I finally did a while back after trying to "squeak by" with a 3/4 ton and am so glad I did. I have a lot more payload capacity now plus a lot more stability and braking ability which is very important in my humble opinion. By the way, on my 2019 Alpine 3800FL which we are in has a hitch weight of about 3300 pounds which we confirmed at a set of Cat scales, so there you go.

[chuckster57]

Now, now. Be careful of what you guarantee or think is certain.:) I have seen poor choices and "taking a chance" move someone's "number" from obscure to first in line in many, many situations. The man upstairs didn't choose or move that number....the choices did. Just a little food for thought from sunny FL. on a beautiful, 80 degree Saturday afternoon.:D

Anyway, as a dealer I wouldn't let any of my units leave the lot with everyone that wanted to come in and "verify" how much they weigh. The numbers are available - just use them.

We will do "test fits" and our driver brings the unit to your house. We have had a few "test tows" with bumper pulls and we have provided the WD without the sway if they are that serious. Sales person in the vehicle was mandatory. Cant say I've seen a fiver leave with a customer for any kind of "test" or weigh in.

[sourdough]

We will do "test fits" and our driver brings the unit to your house. We have had a few "test tows" with bumper pulls and we have provided the WD without the sway if they are that serious. Sales person in the vehicle was mandatory. Cant say I've seen a fiver leave with a customer for any kind of "test" or weigh in.

I think that's pretty cool. I've seen lots of folks at dealerships that would really benefit from those kinds of opportunities.

[5J's]

Hey Mike, welcome to the forum from SE Texas. Congrats you've now passed the first test of new members, you've kept a heated conversation very civil. The weight issue comes up quite often, maybe daily, so as you can imagine most folks are skeptical of the intent of the person asking the questions, most are looking for validation. Most members of this site want to be helpful and have safety in the fore front so, forgive us if we seem harsh. We want to keep your family and ours safe. Good luck finding what you're looking for. And, again welcome.

[Tooth Ferry]

Ram has a site where you can enter your VIN and get weight ratings for your specific truck. My 2013 2500 crew cab short bed pin wt rating is 2997 lbs and tow rating 17,800 lbs. Sorry I don't have the site name but I saw it a few weeks ago on a site, maybe the Cummings one.

[Blackrock]

Looking at the floor plan on this trailer I can see where that bunkhouse could add to the extra pin weight. It looks a lot like my 265srl with the bunkhouse added into the middle.

[PaulRod]

75 Mike Maybe something that would satisfy your curiosity would be to ask the RV dealer to just let you hook up to a 5er with the same "hitch weight". This would let you see in real time what "attitude" of your TV is with that much weight. Be sure to measure the "SAG" amount. Check the angle of the headlights too. Be sure to inflate rear tires to max load rate. Also I'm not familiar with how Dodge does it but Ford has 2 or 3 optional payloads per model range. Go to a spring shop and see what they can do to maintain stock ride height without compromising comfort. (Our oil co used to do the service trucks to make them level)

[Frank G]

It's a slow Sunday afternoon so I thought I would share a few thoughts. 75 Mike, no two trailers with comparable equipment weigh the same coming off the line. We have a 2017 Laredo and have spent about 460 nights in it and towed it about 5,000 miles. It is a good unit and holding up well. I would ditch the ultra light /light line of units. weight savings come at the expense of structure and better /larger amenities. Your unit has 15" tires they should be 16". The full size Laredo, designed for Life Size Living, comes with the 18cu ft refrigerator, 16.5 gal hot water heater, 16" tires, framed in window openings, stronger frame and larger TV's. I would add the second AC from the factory. I would not get all worked up over published pin weights they are what they are. Loading and extras like washer and dryer, generator, extra batteries, and solar panels will greatly add to the normal pin weights and frankly IMHO the Laredo is not well suited for those options. The outside kitchen is a real hit, we use it all the time and the DW lost count on the beer's

There is nothing like making decisions, choose wisely.

[BobMcC]

I had a 2016 RAM 2500 4x4 Cummins 6.7 - towing cap was 17,150. I thought that's all I really needed to worry about. I came on this forum and posted a picture of the TV and our new 2018 Carbon 357 toy hauler. I wasn't asking for the "tow police" to comment, but thankfully someone did. After that, I pulled in my horns (pun intended) and watched and listened here for a time. Yes, we pulled overloaded with that 2500 last year, from Georgia to Cali and back. It pulled like a dream, that 2500 didn't even breathe hard. But, I kept thinking and figuring that whole time. I knew we were overloaded. Finally, I made the decision a month ago to buy a 2017 RAM 3500 DRW 4x4. I did it for peace of mind - and, for the concern that, if we were in the least little accident, my insurance company may actually get out a calculator and deny our claim. Yes, I definitely want my family to be safe and not wiped out financially due to my bad decisions. Even though we lost money on trading vehicles, I sleep much easier now. Thanks for letting me know even though I wasn't ready to hear it.