Soft Floor???

[sourdough]

Just looking for thoughts before I go spend money.....

DW said she thought the floor at the end of the island was getting "spongy/soft" maybe 3 weeks ago. I walked across it and it seemed alright to me but she keeps saying she can feel it thinking maybe the flooring has raised off the floor joists or?? I've walked across it a few times and it seemed like it might have felt soft but I haven't really worried about it.

2 weeks ago I came down with what I assume is a "Plantar's heel"?? Due to that I bought a new pair of Brooks tennis shoes because they were recommended. I have worn boots all my life which feel pretty firm when walking but the tennis shoes aren't like that. I've now walked across the floor many times and it DOES feel like it may be a little soft/spongy. As I've tried to muddle through this a question came to mind that someone may have insight to:

We keep a 35 pint? dehumidifier running at the end of the island right in front of the spongy area. Floor is never wet; keep the unit drained etc., but, it does get warm when running and at times puts out warm air. It's out there I think BUT - reckon the dehumidifier running could be heating up the floor and causing condensation underneath which then softens the floor?? With the weather fluctuations we are having I think it could be possible but "through the floor"??

Throwing that out there for thoughts. At the moment I intend to take it in when we get back to TX and have them pull the coroplast to check for any problems that may be there....due to them replacing it twice and what appears to be a leak out of the bottom when the galley gray tank fills (thinking a screw got it).

[Larrystegall]

Heat through the floor seams unlikely. Overflow from the dehumidifier a possibility if there is a break in the floor nearby. Leaking plumbing seems far more likely, and with two previous “repairs” sounds like you identified the issue. Could be a screw tagged a pipe amp tge tank is good.

[sourdough]

I thought about a leak in the galley tank but it only leaks when it is full. Until then there is no leak. On the other hand, I'm thinking it may have been leaking when full (or almost) and didn't know it and somehow soaked up from the top of the tank? into the floor insulation? I'm wondering about that. Currently we are draining the galley tank daily and it seems to have stopped the dripping under the trailer. The "sponginess" that seems to be there would have to mean that the top of the floor is compromised - I think. Then again, the drip comes from a new screw placed when they replaced the coroplast the last time.....right under the galley tank.??? Thanks for the thoughts.

[JRTJH]

Danny,

If I remember correctly, in 2014 Keystone was still producing "full weight" Cougar travel trailers as well as XLite trailers and both the full weight and light weight models had the High Country option available. The reason I bring that up is because there is a difference in the way the floor is constructed in the "full weight" and the "light weight" Cougar models.

The full weight ones (both High Country and standard build) had 5/8" Strand board one piece flooring. The XLite models (both High Country and standard build) had the sandwich floor composed of a 1/4" top layer, 2" of foam and a 1/8" bottom layer.

Without knowing which brand, Cougar or Cougar XLite, that your High Country is, it's hard to guess a cause. On the standard weight models with the 5/8" strand floor, I wouldn't suspect any component breakdown, so water is a first guess cause. On the XLite models with the sandwich floor, I'd first suspect lamination breakdown and/or Styrofoam cracking/flaking as the probable cause and water intrusion as a second/third cause for the spongy feeling.

So, it could be, based on floor type, one of several causes.

[sourdough]

Danny,

If I remember correctly, in 2014 Keystone was still producing "full weight" Cougar travel trailers as well as XLite trailers and both the full weight and light weight models had the High Country option available. The reason I bring that up is because there is a difference in the way the floor is constructed in the "full weight" and the "light weight" Cougar models.

The full weight ones (both High Country and standard build) had 5/8" Strand board one piece flooring. The XLite models (both High Country and standard build) had the sandwich floor composed of a 1/4" top layer, 2" of foam and a 1/8" bottom layer.

Without knowing which brand, Cougar or Cougar XLite, that your High Country is, it's hard to guess a cause. On the standard weight models with the 5/8" strand floor, I wouldn't suspect any component breakdown, so water is a first guess cause. On the XLite models with the sandwich floor, I'd first suspect lamination breakdown and/or Styrofoam cracking/flaking as the probable cause and water intrusion as a second/third cause for the spongy feeling.

So, it could be, based on floor type, one of several causes.


Thanks John. Yes, ours was the "full weight" model. I too, suspect some sort of water intrusion somewhere. I can't really "feel" the floor give so much but DW thinks it's there and at times it does feel like there may be something. Obviously I want to catch it before it continues if it is something. I was concerned that the dehumidifier might actually be causing a temp difference that was causing condensation under the floor resulting in a degradation - didn't know if anyone had ever had that happen or even heard of it. I am running it minimally now just in case it is an issue - and will keep watching/looking for clues.

[vampress_me]

Not much help here. But if you need to run the dehumidifier more than just minimally, why not set it up on something so the worry of the heat below isn’t there? Either one of those little plastic steps (that I have to use to get into the top of the upper cabinets) if they are large enough stable platform, or a piece of plywood sized for the dehumidifiers base with “feet” under it (shopping trip to Lowe’s or Home Depot :)) Neither may be a pretty option but useable if you are worried about the heat.

[sourdough]

Not much help here. But if you need to run the dehumidifier more than just minimally, why not set it up on something so the worry of the heat below isn’t there? Either one of those little plastic steps (that I have to use to get into the top of the upper cabinets) if they are large enough stable platform, or a piece of plywood sized for the dehumidifiers base with “feet” under it (shopping trip to Lowe’s or Home Depot :)) Neither may be a pretty option but useable if you are worried about the heat.


Thanks! Susan had mentioned that and I forgot. Not really sure of what to put under it but she had mentioned looking for a pad like you put under an outdoor grill. I think I'll probably give that a shot tomorrow just to see if I can tell a difference. It's only 30 miles to Tallahassee (Home Depot/Lowes) but it is a true, true pain. Thanks again.

[LeeB43]

I have a 2019 bullet 220RBI, picked it up in mid-October. A couple of weeks ago the floor by the outside door starting to get soft. It was noticeable if you shifted your weight you can see the floor move. Now there are several other places with the same problem. Without shoes on, I can feel the structure underneath the floor. It goes from a soft spot to this hard piece an inch or so wide to another soft spot. The softness keeps on spreading; right now is on both sides of the island. If there is a water leak, there is absolutely no evidence inside the trailer. Certainly there could be a leak that I cannot see. Could it be that the floor is just falling apart? I have no idea what the composure of the Floor is. And, I am doubly concerned because I’m a full timer. No place to live if they have that trailer for any period of time.

[Northofu1]

"2 weeks ago I came down with what I assume is a "Plantar's heel"?? Due to that I bought a new pair of Brooks tennis shoes because they were recommended. I have worn boots all my life which feel pretty firm when walking but the tennis shoes aren't like that."

Hi Danny, sorry about your floor problem, I am too much a newbie to help you there.
Your foot problem however I do know something about. Don't buy Brooks shoes. I had a problem with a foot and saw a specialist. He looked at my foot and gave me three choices. a) Cortisone shot b) exploratory surgery c) Stop buying brooks shoes and get something better. I chose "c" I went and got a pair of Nike Air Max in as normal colours as possible and within two weeks the problem was solved. The Nike shoes don't last past 6 to 7 months of steady use, but they make my feet feel great. You can get them with elasticized tongue (my fave and they slip on off quick, like slippers) or the regular tongue. I have tried New Balance, Reebok, and Adidas and they didn't work for me as my foot is slightly wider than their style. I also wear the Columbia Birke trail hiking shoe from Famous footwear, a great 6 - 12 month shoe.
Sorry to get off topic.
I hope you find a quick / cheap solution to floor problem.
Dan

[sourdough]

"2 weeks ago I came down with what I assume is a "Plantar's heel"?? Due to that I bought a new pair of Brooks tennis shoes because they were recommended. I have worn boots all my life which feel pretty firm when walking but the tennis shoes aren't like that."

Hi Danny, sorry about your floor problem, I am too much a newbie to help you there.
Your foot problem however I do know something about. Don't buy Brooks shoes. I had a problem with a foot and saw a specialist. He looked at my foot and gave me three choices. a) Cortisone shot b) exploratory surgery c) Stop buying brooks shoes and get something better. I chose "c" I went and got a pair of Nike Air Max in as normal colours as possible and within two weeks the problem was solved. The Nike shoes don't last past 6 to 7 months of steady use, but they make my feet feel great. You can get them with elasticized tongue (my fave and they slip on off quick, like slippers) or the regular tongue. I have tried New Balance, Reebok, and Adidas and they didn't work for me as my foot is slightly wider than their style. I also wear the Columbia Birke trail hiking shoe from Famous footwear, a great 6 - 12 month shoe.
Sorry to get off topic.
I hope you find a quick / cheap solution to floor problem.
Dan


Thanks Dan. I bought the Brooks and I'm trying to wear them (I'm not a tennis shoe guy). They're better than my thick, heavy boots but the jury is still out on them. I will keep your advice in mind as I try to get this issue fixed. For the soft floor I bought an insulated mat to go under the dehumidifier because we've about decided it's the heat from the unit in the cold weather causing the floor to heat up and condense underneath. I'll pull the bottom off when we get back to see what I can see or if I'm just hallucinating.:D

[JRTJH]

Off topic, but heel spurs are a problem that just doesn't go away. You can eliminate some of (maybe most of) the symptoms with cushioning and reduced walking, but once formed, a heel spur just doesn't resolve without surgical intervention. Plantar's warts affect soft tissue and that can resolve with treatment. That said, the easiest and usually most efficient way to eliminate the pain from either condition is with dual density cushions for the heel. Here is one type, I used to prescribe them with great success. YMMV and this is NOT medical advice, as you should always consult your health care provider for treatment suggestions for your specific condition.
https://www.braceability.com/products/heel-spur-cushion-inserts?variant=7677314498613&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8sbzkOf_4AIVh7jACh2qgQBpEAQYBSAB EgJCZvD_BwE

[Northofu1]

"Plantar fasciitis is more common in runners. In addition, people who are overweight and those who wear shoes with inadequate support have an increased risk of plantar fasciitis."

I am not a runner :lol:

[sourdough]

Thanks guys. I suppose I have a heel spur and will probably have to have it looked at but I suspect when we get back to TX. I have visited with 3 folks that have had the problem and visited with their doctors to resolve the issue. My problem, I suspect, is my lifelong use of "boots"; whether dress ostrich, ropers or now my favorite since I retired (13 years) Justin work boots. They aren't much on foot support but I use them like I have a tank around my feet and don't worry about much....from working, grocery getting, walking the beach or slogging in mud...I just really like them. Another factor I'm sure is the fact that I refuse to sit. I am always doing something (if not on this forum) and feel sitting is wasting time - I even eat all my meals standing (unless eating out) - in my thick soled, hard boots. I guess I watched so many retire and then "retire" to a recliner with a TV (which I don't watch much either) then "retire" to a casket. Not for me.

Thanks for the link John; I'll order some this evening. I'm thinking that might let me back into my boots!!! And yes, this is a tad off topic but I think I did bring it up in the initial post??

[vampress_me]

Off subject, sort of. But have you tried Ariats? Comfy all-day boots with arch support. Between my Ariats and Birkenstock sandals, I actually have an arch again. They had disappeared for about 15 years when I was younger...

[sourdough]

Off subject, sort of. But have you tried Ariats? Comfy all-day boots with arch support. Between my Ariats and Birkenstock sandals, I actually have an arch again. They had disappeared for about 15 years when I was younger...


Thanks Lynette! Actually my brother had initially recommended the Justins which I've worn for a long time. He came to meet us last year here in FL and said he had moved to Ariats. I noted that. Got a call one night at 3am last year that my 18 yr. old granddaughter had died in LA (state). I had NO clothing for a funeral and my Justins looked just like I use them.. bad. Ran around Tallahassee for a day trying to find some kind of boot (didn't need anymore high dollar stuff - long past "dress shoes") that might work and a sport coat that would go with jeans. FL is not the premier place to look for a nice assortment of what I call "western, country, working, regular" boots. After 3 stores I found a pair of Ariats, which I had previously thought of as "wanna be's"; fit great, felt good and are the boots sitting in the front of my closet as my "go to nice boots" in the event I need them (after I took a black indelible marker and covered all the orange markings". They do fit very well and I really like them. Unfortunately they are my "nice boots" when I'm "out here" so don't put them on except for ??

[duh1]

Our passport 2910bh did exactly the same thing. we felt it was a water leak we could not see. After major major unbuttoning and tearing it all apart NO LEAK at all.

We use it a lot and lots of feet go over it, 'BRACES' cross floor are set too far apart and they welded another set of braces across th floor. I not a water issues suspect this is what is going with yours. do have to take the plastic sheet stuff off to put them in and proper reinstallation was ot the easiest thing in the world Raised in Midland. if you have a question [email protected]

[sourdough]

Our passport 2910bh did exactly the same thing. we felt it was a water leak we could not see. After major major unbuttoning and tearing it all apart NO LEAK at all.

We use it a lot and lots of feet go over it, 'BRACES' cross floor are set too far apart and they welded another set of braces across th floor. I not a water issues suspect this is what is going with yours. do have to take the plastic sheet stuff off to put them in and proper reinstallation was ot the easiest thing in the world Raised in Midland. if you have a question [email protected]


Thanks for the insight. I'm hoping we don't have to do that but it may be the solution in the end. We'll know more when we get back.

How long since you been to Midland? With the shale work going on there it is a booming madhouse. Edit: Where in the FL panhandle? We are S. of Tallahassee in Panacea.

[jimborokz]

Thanks Dan. I bought the Brooks and I'm trying to wear them (I'm not a tennis shoe guy). They're better than my thick, heavy boots but the jury is still out on them. I will keep your advice in mind as I try to get this issue fixed. For the soft floor I bought an insulated mat to go under the dehumidifier because we've about decided it's the heat from the unit in the cold weather causing the floor to heat up and condense underneath. I'll pull the bottom off when we get back to see what I can see or if I'm just hallucinating.:D


I too suffer from plantar fasciitis. The good feet store was happy to sell me $350 inserts. They certainly brought relief but not at that price. Dr. Scholl's worked just as well at $16. But actually the best relief I get is wearing Croc's. I wear them whenever I can but if I need a boot or dress shoe then I use the inserts.



As for the soft floor. The only time I've had issues is with aged trailers and it was always water damage on particle board flooring, so I can't help you there.

[LeeB43]

I took my 220RBI back to Camping World, where I purchased it. They looked at the floor and agreed there is definitely something wrong with it. They said that it’s a bonded floor and they cannot fix it locally; it has to go back to the factory if that’s the fix. They wrote up what they found and sent it into Keystone. Keystone responded to take pictures all around the island and perimeter cabinetry to see if there is any water damage (there is none). What Camping World did was to put a straight edge down on the floor and then stand on the soft spot to show How much it has deflected. They took about six or so pictures of that also. They are sending that back up to Keystone and we’ll see what they have to say. What they told me at Camping World was that if indeed they have to replace the floor they have to take everything off of it, exterior walls included, because the floor is the first thing that goes down. And to expect them to have it for a couple of months. As I said I’m living in now so that’s not going to work. I’m hoping they will offer to swap it out with a new one Or give me cash instead. If that’s the route they want to go then I want to work a deal to upgrade to a cougar fifth wheel. I expect to know next week what’s going to happen.

[sourdough]

I took my 220RBI back to Camping World, where I purchased it. They looked at the floor and agreed there is definitely something wrong with it. They said that it’s a bonded floor and they cannot fix it locally; it has to go back to the factory if that’s the fix. They wrote up what they found and sent it into Keystone. Keystone responded to take pictures all around the island and perimeter cabinetry to see if there is any water damage (there is none). What Camping World did was to put a straight edge down on the floor and then stand on the soft spot to show How much it has deflected. They took about six or so pictures of that also. They are sending that back up to Keystone and we’ll see what they have to say. What they told me at Camping World was that if indeed they have to replace the floor they have to take everything off of it, exterior walls included, because the floor is the first thing that goes down. And to expect them to have it for a couple of months. As I said I’m living in now so that’s not going to work. I’m hoping they will offer to swap it out with a new one Or give me cash instead. If that’s the route they want to go then I want to work a deal to upgrade to a cougar fifth wheel. I expect to know next week what’s going to happen.


Keep us updated on what they find/say.

[duh1]

left midland in 1967, in Tallahassee for last 39 years! We put a lot of miles in the trailer since 2010, about 100,000 and conservatively 2+ years living in it. longest time was basically 5 months. Try to be good about maintenance but roof leaked a bit in front and now front is 'bubbled a bit', camping world redid/coated and sealed the roof last year and all seems fine. Happier than a lot of people with keystones, seem there are some lemons out there but it is showing a bit of age, but then so are we!

[sourdough]

left midland in 1967, in Tallahassee for last 39 years! We put a lot of miles in the trailer since 2010, about 100,000 and conservatively 2+ years living in it. longest time was basically 5 months. Try to be good about maintenance but roof leaked a bit in front and now front is 'bubbled a bit', camping world redid/coated and sealed the roof last year and all seems fine. Happier than a lot of people with keystones, seem there are some lemons out there but it is showing a bit of age, but then so are we!


A little off topic but you have been gone a long time. You would not recognize Midland, the surrounding countryside or traffic. We have stayed in Panacea for the last 8 years for the winter since my daughter moved to the area. She now lives in Tally out on Miccosukee in Miccosukee Meadows. Small world!!

[LeeB43]

I took my 220RBI back to Camping World, where I purchased it. They looked at the floor and agreed there is definitely something wrong with it. They said that it’s a bonded floor and they cannot fix it locally; it has to go back to the factory if that’s the fix. They wrote up what they found and sent it into Keystone. Keystone responded to take pictures all around the island and perimeter cabinetry to see if there is any water damage (there is none). What Camping World did was to put a straight edge down on the floor and then stand on the soft spot to show How much it has deflected. They took about six or so pictures of that also. They are sending that back up to Keystone and we’ll see what they have to say. What they told me at Camping World was that if indeed they have to replace the floor they have to take everything off of it, exterior walls included, because the floor is the first thing that goes down. And to expect them to have it for a couple of months. As I said I’m living in now so that’s not going to work. I’m hoping they will offer to swap it out with a new one Or give me cash instead. If that’s the route they want to go then I want to work a deal to upgrade to a cougar fifth wheel. I expect to know next week what’s going to happen.

Long story short - After much back and forth between CW Warranty Mgr, Cory, and Keystone, Keystone finally conceded that it could not be repaired and agreed to replace it with an identical 220RBI. I was able to work a deal with CW to trade the replacement trailer for a 315RLS Cougar 5th Wheel. Since I live full time in the rig, it is SO MUCH BETTER! Lots of room & places to sit (& was able to get a washer/dryer combo installed. Yea!) A few months to do it all, but well worth it. Kudos to Keystone for backing up their warranty. Also kudos to CW for fighting for me. CW gets a lot of grief but I have bought 3 rigs from the store in Summerfield, Florida and have been treated very well by Sales, Parts & Service. I’m a happy camper!