Toy hauler pin weight experiment

[C130JSuperHerc]

Looking for real world scaled weight experience.

I don’t haul any toys in the garage of my Fuzion 369 fifth wheel toy hauler.

I am also at the ragged edge of my pin weight capabilities as we currently travel.

I have always heard that toy haulers have such high pin weights because the weight CG is far forward (empty garage) unless you are carrying the intended weight of a toy in the garage.

Has anyone hit the scales and looked at rear axel weight with an empty garage vs a loaded garage?

I know it won’t be pound for pound difference due to suspension on the rear axel soaking some weight up, but it does make sense that any amount of weight, 38 feet behind the pin and behind both axels would drive a weight loss at the pin box.

[PARAPTOR]

I do not recall any posts where someone has shared data on TH pin weight with and without loading the garage. You did not mention what your TV is? My general opinion is it will not make much difference if you are towing/hauling a 38 foot TH with a 1500 or 2500. :hide:

[C130JSuperHerc]

I do not recall any posts where someone has shared data on TH pin weight with and without loading the garage. You did not mention what your TV is? My general opinion is it will not make much difference if you are towing/hauling a 38 foot TH with a 1500 or 2500. :hide:



Fact. But I left trucks out on purpose.

This is pure curiosity

[C130JSuperHerc]

In another place I asked, a person relayed a discussion he had with two keystone engineers...but he did not verify.

39’ raptor with two axels
Approx 2500 pounds would decrease pin weight by approx 600 pounds. Or about 24%.

I suspect that 24% is not linear as weight is added

[PARAPTOR]

I agree with you ,ie with out seeing the actual test data such as pin weight , garage loading, etc I am not sure what that 24% relates to. Interesting 39 foot Raptor with two axles, although since pockets are empty at my age, have not been following newer models. I also try and stay away from RV shows. if I recall this year we had freezing rain and snow in the area when Pittsburgh had their show. Weather really helps at times :bow:

[C130JSuperHerc]

I agree with you ,ie with out seeing the actual test data such as pin weight , garage loading, etc I am not sure what that 24% relates to. Interesting 39 foot Raptor with two axles, although since pockets are empty at my age, have not been following newer models. I also try and stay away from RV shows. if I recall this year we had freezing rain and snow in the area when Pittsburgh had their show. Weather really helps at times :bow:



I understand the empty pocket syndrome!

The 24% is the amount of weight removed from the pin when 2500 pounds was added to the garage

[notanlines]

I can give you first-hand experience figures, actual numbers from a CAT scale. The difference in pin weight on our 38' Raptor (two axle) with the Harley-Davidson Road King and side car (1050 pounds) was a paltry 140 pounds less. Wild stories will abound about how much it lightens the pin weight. Keep in mind that if your rear door is 10 feet behind your last axle, that weight of your bike(s) is not centered anywhere near the actual rear of your trailer. Those weights came from the CAT scale at the Pilot Truck Stop in Memphis.

[Brentw]

LOL, good for you.
Wish I kept better notes when I weighed, got a couple slips and 1 with bike in back. The others have no info , so loaded , empty, water full or?

Notanlines, I agree , don't think it moves much, center of bike is 5 ft behind axles, pin is 25 ft ahead ( give or take).

[C130JSuperHerc]

Great thank you.

So that is about 14% off the top of my head

[PARAPTOR]

Got it, I think that 2500 pounds is the max for the garage area. At least in mine the max poster is still up in the garage. Not an issue with me since I do not haul toys.

[C130JSuperHerc]

LOL, good for you.
Wish I kept better notes when I weighed, got a couple slips and 1 with bike in back. The others have no info , so loaded , empty, water full or?



If the water tank is behind the rear axel, I’ll take your data.

[Brentw]

100 gal water tank is just forward of axles, I seldom travel with it full unless I am boondocking.

PM sent

[roadglide]

With the 2500 by the seat of my pants empty I could feel some white knuckles , loaded garage heavy stable the old 2500. I was at pin weight but loading my rig stoped the white knuckles. I haven't pulled empty with 1 ton , I hope to never pull empty. I think it will be stable . I think garage weight is calculated befor fuel and beds are added . At 38 ft 2 axles 2500 in the garage will be 300 lbs or more off pin weight that is calculated for my 36 ft.

[notanlines]

Jerry, I think that figure would be very close. If you happen to have a spare $13 and an hour of your time, we all would be interested in what your outcome might be.
Jim

[C130JSuperHerc]

Me too jerry!

So far 300 pounds off the pin in exchange for 2500 in the garage puts you at 12% which is quite a Bit lower than other reports so far. I’m trying to plot them for some kind of rule of thumb for loading.

Please let me know if you test it.

[roadglide]

Me too jerry!

So far 300 pounds off the pin in exchange for 2500 in the garage puts you at 12% which is quite a Bit lower than other reports so far. I’m trying to plot them for some kind of rule of thumb for loading.

Please let me know if you test it.
I think 300 is a lot to loose on tires and suspension for TV being at max pay load . I can feel 110 gallons water on the 1 ton pulling . That 300 is for 1500 as I remember from the scale but now at max garage I'm saying
500 .

[JRTJH]

It should be relatively easy to use the same weight/balance process (not measurements, but process) that's used on the C130 to build a weight/balance equation. All that would be needed is the measurements from the C/L of the landing gear (axles) and the cargo placement based on a static fuel load. Plug in the distances and the weight in the garage (pallet position at same distance "behind L/G centerline" and that should be very close to giving you CG shift and an easy calculation for nose gear weight estimate.

[C130JSuperHerc]

You are right, and my hero...let me go find my loadmasters to help figure this out.

[Javi]

I'm not sure I could go through this stage of my life if I had to worry about load placement in my trailer.

[rhagfo]

I'm not sure I could go through this stage of my life if I had to worry about load placement in my trailer.

Or what you need to leave at home!

[Theoldroaddog]

I have a 2016 Impact 361. I used a new device on my truck called Haul Gauge. Check out HaulGauge.com. Also can be purchased on Amazon. The trailer with full fresh water tank and full fuel tank and no vehicle in the garage, Haul Gauge put my pin weight at 2K pounds. Unless going to an actual truck scale this is pretty close.

[C130JSuperHerc]

I have a 2016 Impact 361. I used a new device on my truck called Haul Gauge. Check out HaulGauge.com. Also can be purchased on Amazon. The trailer with full fresh water tank and full fuel tank and no vehicle in the garage, Haul Gauge put my pin weight at 2K pounds. Unless going to an actual truck scale this is pretty close.


Cool
Did you verify on a scale?

[Theoldroaddog]

I have not been to a scale yet. I will update when I get to one.

[C130JSuperHerc]

I have not been to a scale yet. I will update when I get to one.



Great. Thanks!

[bubbubouy]

We have a 2018 Impact 351 and it scaled 3230 lbs. tongue weight at the Pilot by my house. That was loaded for camping, clothes, pots & pans, food, 1/3 tank fresh water, rzr in the garage, so on.

I will mention that I can not tell the difference in the truck with the garage empty or with the rzr.

[AbHDToyHauler]

I did what you are looking for last year and for the same reasons. I reasoned that when both our bikes are loaded we should lighten pin weight. Our bikes (Her Trike and my Streetglide) combined weigh about 2100 lbs. I have set the biker bar mounts in the garage to be staggered as that is what works best for loading. My water tank is right over the axles pretty much. I planned (and subsequently did) to carry minimal water (for bathroom only) while hauling our bikes. I went to a highway scale (here in Alberta Canada we have free weigh scales that you can pull onto and check weights. I first weighed truck with full tank of fuel and fifth wheel hitch (mines a slider so heavy) and myself and wife in cab. Front axle then back axle. Then I hooked up trailer with usual camping stuff and minmal water but no bikes in garage. I was about 200 under my max pin weight (based on new weight taken). Then I loaded bikes and check it all again. Took about 400 lbs off pin weight if I remember . I have it all written down somewhere and I realize it's not very scientific but it worked for my piece of mind. Also my Fuzion tows fantastic empty (even in winds and semi's passing) and fully loaded. This year will go to a Cat scale and re-do. If I find my numbers (actual) I will post them here for you. Hope that helps. My garage cargo max is also 2500.

PS: That was towing it up through the Rocky Mountains and over into Montana . She handled like a dream. Fifth wheels are the best. And an Exhaust brake is amazing.

[C130JSuperHerc]

I did what you are looking for last year and for the same reasons. I reasoned that when both our bikes are loaded we should lighten pin weight. Our bikes (Her Trike and my Streetglide) combined weigh about 2100 lbs. I have set the biker bar mounts in the garage to be staggered as that is what works best for loading. My water tank is right over the axles pretty much. I planned (and subsequently did) to carry minimal water (for bathroom only) while hauling our bikes. I went to a highway scale (here in Alberta Canada we have free weigh scales that you can pull onto and check weights. I first weighed truck with full tank of fuel and fifth wheel hitch (mines a slider so heavy) and myself and wife in cab. Front axle then back axle. Then I hooked up trailer with usual camping stuff and minmal water but no bikes in garage. I was about 200 under my max pin weight (based on new weight taken). Then I loaded bikes and check it all again. Took about 400 lbs off pin weight if I remember . I have it all written down somewhere and I realize it's not very scientific but it worked for my piece of mind. Also my Fuzion tows fantastic empty (even in winds and semi's passing) and fully loaded. This year will go to a Cat scale and re-do. If I find my numbers (actual) I will post them here for you. Hope that helps. My garage cargo max is also 2500.

PS: That was towing it up through the Rocky Mountains and over into Montana . She handled like a dream. Fifth wheels are the best. And an Exhaust brake is amazing.


Thank you. Please let me know if you find the tickets

[AbHDToyHauler]

There were no tickets per se. It's an open but accurate scale you drive on with each axle and do your weighing and write it down yourself. It's an unattended unit. Which is nice cause you can play and try things without anyone getting upset. So long story short from my notes with the two harleys loaded in garage the pin weight on my Fuzion dropped by 350 lbs. I hauled it to scale and wife and my son rode the bikes there. We tested with no bikes, one bike and both bikes. That was result with both. Hope that's useful.