What About A Keystone Passport 292BH

[c_l_phillips72]

Ok, so I’m looking at a Keystone Passport 292BH.

Here are the specs:
Dry weight - 5,562
GVWR - 7,200

Since the tongue weight changes with the load, I’ve calculated it to be 12% of the GVWR, so 864 lbs.

My truck’s GVWR is 7,100, with a payload of 1,667 and curb weight of 5433.

To calculate my payload, I’m adding:
1). Tongue weight - 864
2). Passenger weight - 360
3). Equalizer 4 point weight distributor hitch - 100
4). Tonneau cover and other miscellaneous items - 160

My total payload is 1484, so just 193 lbs less than max. So any future significant other to go camping with us now has a weight limit.

So my truck’s calculated GVW is 5433 (curb weight) + 1484 (payload) is 6,917.

My truck’s GCVWR is 13,900. When I subtract my truck’s GVW of 6,917, the remaining 6,983 would be my max towing capacity.

So now I need to calculate the weight of the camper, FULLY loaded, without the weight of the hitch/tongue weight. I’m excluding the hitch/tongue weight from this number because that weight is already included as the payload of my truck which was used to calculate my truck’s GVW which was subtracted from the GCVWR of 13,900 to determine towing capacity.

With that being said, I’ve calculated the trailers GVW (without the hitch/tongue weight) to be 6,336.

7,200 * .12 = 864
7,200 - 864 = 6,336

So my truck’s GVW is 6,917 (183 less than max).

My trailer’s GVW is 6,336 (647 lbs less than the max 6,983, or 90.7% of the max).

My GCVW is 6,336 + 6917 = 13,253 (647 lbs less than GCVWR).

All of that is based on the camper being loaded to its MAX, which I would never do (especially on long trips to Colorado).

Loading just 200 lbs in the camper has a much better result, and would be a more real life scenario for me. In that scenario, I’d be towing just 73.5% of the max (calc’d by subtracting the truck’s GVW from 13,900, and dividing the campers GVW by the result of the subtraction.

Am I doing these calculations correct?

[Gegrad]

Ok, so I’m looking at a Keystone Passport 292BH.


Loading just 200 lbs in the camper has a much better result, and would be a more real life scenario for me. In that scenario, I’d be towing just 73.5% of the max (calc’d by subtracting the truck’s GVW from 13,900, and dividing the campers GVW by the result of the subtraction.

Am I doing these calculations correct?

Math seems to be reasonable as far as calculations go, but are you sure you would only 200 lbs in the trailer? Do you not cook ANYTHING at all in the trailer/campsite? You mentioned long trips to Colorado- you would only take 1 or 2 sets of clothes and not use sheets? Not take any folding chairs? No campfire equipment? No sporting goods for your boy? No games or other entertainment? I am down with your detailed calculations, but I have doubts you would only ever have 200 lbs of goods in your trailer.

[busterbrown]

For proper reference and to continue an ongoing discussion of prospective trailers, I'd suggest to the OP that it's much better etiquette to keep only 1 thread active and on topic. Otherwise, it becomes a spider web of unfinished business.

As far the Passport, it's much more appropriate. As suggested in the previous thread, use the GVWR of the trailer to get an accurate representation of real world numbers.

[c_l_phillips72]

For proper reference and to continue an ongoing discussion of prospective trailers, I'd suggest to the OP that it's much better etiquette to keep only 1 thread active and on topic. Otherwise, it becomes a spider web of unfinished business.



As far the Passport, it's much more appropriate. As suggested in the previous thread, use the GVWR of the trailer to get an accurate representation of real world numbers.



I only had 1 active thread, in fact I didn’t even create this one! My only active thread was in the new member section.

[Gegrad]

For proper reference and to continue an ongoing discussion of prospective trailers, I'd suggest to the OP that it's much better etiquette to keep only 1 thread active and on topic. Otherwise, it becomes a spider web of unfinished business.



John closed the other thread and asked him to post about the new trailer the OP is considering in a new thread under towing instead of 'New Member intros'.

[busterbrown]

John closed the other thread and asked him to post about the new trailer the OP is considering in a new thread under towing instead of 'New Member intros'.

Oh, I see. Didn't realize that thread was closed.

[c_l_phillips72]

Math seems to be reasonable as far as calculations go, but are you sure you would only 200 lbs in the trailer? Do you not cook ANYTHING at all in the trailer/campsite? You mentioned long trips to Colorado- you would only take 1 or 2 sets of clothes and not use sheets? Not take any folding chairs? No campfire equipment? No sporting goods for your boy? No games or other entertainment? I am down with your detailed calculations, but I have doubts you would only ever have 200 lbs of goods in your trailer.



Thanks for your response.

I guess my point with the 200 lbs is that I’m much more likely to have a very lightly packed camper than one that is maxed out to the camper’s GVWR.

We will bring stuff, but just for myself and son. The places we go have full hookups, so I won’t be traveling with water, or a bunch of food.

My overall question was if I’m calculating the max towing capacity and % used of max towing capacity.

Since the tongue weight of the camper I’d distributed to the truck (increasing the truck’s payload), I didn’t find it necessary to include the tongue weight as a part of the trailer’s GVW when calculating the GCVWR. If I included it as a part of the trailer’s GVW when calculating the GCVWR, I would have included the tongue weight twice.

Since I’m so close to hitting my max numbers, I wanted to be absolutely sure that not including the tongue weight for that calculation is the right thing to do.

[sourdough]

I said, and told myself, I would not involve myself in this conversation again after previous attacks but.... At least it seems we are making progress.

"Loading just 200 lbs in the camper has a much better result, and would be a more real life scenario for me."

The above statement references what the OP plans to carry for long trips with his son above "dry weight". Dry weight - nothing in the trailer above when it rolled off the assembly line. 200 lbs. - "real life scenario"?. Propane - 60lbs + 20 lbs for tanks = 80 lbs. 2 12v batteries - 120 lbs. We now have 200 lbs. Going for a trip for a week? 3 days? Cookware - none? Plates/siverware/etc. - none? Coffee maker? none? Clothes - none? Boots/shoes? none. Bed linens? none. Towels, wash rags etc. - none - and virtually anything else needed to do anything to take a trip - and most of the previous require multiples. You could NEVER have anything in a holding tank or fresh water tank....regardless of circumstances. The list is endless whether the OP likes it or not (but that's just me) - and we want to go make "memories"...what kind?.

As a wise sage once said on the forum, "you don't know what you don't know", I say a wise person understands that and tries to learn.

I am not trying to push on the OP, I want the OP to UNDERSTAND what he is doing. I, more than anything, want him to find a way to connect, and have fun, with his son in an unfortunate situation - that's why I posted in the first place - to help - not to be ripped with cuss words. NOW, I'm done.

[Jseitz]

I don't have a dog in the fight but I followed your introduction thread from start to finish. I wanted to share my experience which may provide some food for thought. In 2017 I bought a toy hauler with a dry weight of 10,600lbs. The payload was an additional 2800lbs. I have an F250 with the 6.0 diesel with a towing limit of 12,500lbs. The GVCW IS 23,000. The truck GVW is 10,000lbs. The salesman said I would be fine...he was wrong. You will find that everything you need for camping, you will want to keep in the camper. Moving stuff in and out for each trip is a pain. I probably had an additional 1000lbs of water, prophase, dishes, lawn chairs, kitchen stuff, ect. Loaded in the trailer. Although I was clearly below my "approved" limits, it was not a good set up. The F250 could pull the TH ok and I could stop Safely because I never went over 60mph. But the wind, poor road conditions, and passing tractor trailers made every trip a white knuckle experience. I wasn't smart enough to ask the good folks on here for advice and wished I did. I ended up selling the TH and buying a Cougar 29BHS at 9000lbs GVW. The point is that pushing the posted capacity limits of your TV can make every trip a real challenge on the road. It is ultimately your call on what you buy. But buying a TT that you dread pulling can ruin your desire to go camping pretty quickly. You may want to consider buying something well below your towing capacity and not splitting hairs on what you can you pack. I applaud your wanting to buy a camper to create many great memories for you and your son. Try to make it as easy, fun, and as convenient as you can. You will thank yourself in the long run. Best of luck. We're all in this together.

[c_l_phillips72]

I said, and told myself, I would not involve myself in this conversation again after previous attacks but.... At least it seems we are making progress.



"Loading just 200 lbs in the camper has a much better result, and would be a more real life scenario for me."



The above statement references what the OP plans to carry for long trips with his son above "dry weight". Dry weight - nothing in the trailer above when it rolled off the assembly line. 200 lbs. - "real life scenario"?. Propane - 60lbs + 20 lbs for tanks = 80 lbs. 2 12v batteries - 120 lbs. We now have 200 lbs. Going for a trip for a week? 3 days? Cookware - none? Plates/siverware/etc. - none? Coffee maker? none? Clothes - none? Boots/shoes? none. Bed linens? none. Towels, wash rags etc. - none - and virtually anything else needed to do anything to take a trip - and most of the previous require multiples. You could NEVER have anything in a holding tank or fresh water tank....regardless of circumstances. The list is endless whether the OP likes it or not (but that's just me) - and we want to go make "memories"...what kind?.



As a wise sage once said on the forum, "you don't know what you don't know", I say a wise person understands that and tries to learn.



I am not trying to push on the OP, I want the OP to UNDERSTAND what he is doing. I, more than anything, want him to find a way to connect, and have fun, with his son in an unfortunate situation - that's why I posted in the first place - to help - not to be ripped with cuss words. NOW, I'm done.


Ok, so here so are twisting my words, and for the 3rd time accusing me of either being a full on retard or someone who just isn’t willing to learn. Both of those thoughts couldn’t be further from the truth, and really isn’t even appropriate on any forum. When you talk to someone like that, they’re going to be defensive. I will not accept someone talking to me like that, and I will curse at those who choose to talk down to me.

Here’s exactly what I said.

“I guess my point with the 200 lbs is that I’m much more likely to have a very lightly packed camper than one that is maxed out to the camper’s GVWR.

We will bring stuff, but just for myself and son. The places we go have full hookups, so I won’t be traveling with...”.

I guess I need to be extremely clear with every single word I say so there isn’t ANY interpretation, so here’s my attempt. I really don’t think I should have to be this specific in everything I say.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 200 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 201 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 202 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 203 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 204 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 205 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 206 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 207 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 208 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 209 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

I would expect that the number of pounds loaded into my camper would be closer to 210 pounds than the FULL CAPACITY.

That can go on and on and on until 1 lb before the max capacity. I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand that I do not NEED to pack my camper to it’s full capacity in order to have any fun with my son.

As I’ve said before, really the ONLY time we’ll be in or around the camper is when we’re sleeping.

Why do I need to bring tons of crap with me when we won’t even be using it?

I can buy some plastic cups, forks, knives, spoons, plates, and 1 or 2 pots/pans, clothes for a week, a couple of board games in case it’s raining outside and all of that would be like 20 lbs.

By the way, I asked Keystone how much I needed to add for propane tanks (2) and the batteries (2) and they said 100 lbs for it all. I have no idea how much those weigh, which is why I asked. Believe it or not, I did ask and didn’t just pull a number out of my butt and choose to be “irresponsible” and endanger my child and everyone on the road around me in an attempt to mass murder others on the road due to overloading.

So that’s why I said 200 lbs. 100 for what the manufacturer TOLD me to include and 100 more for the very few items that we needed to bring.

But my overall point wasn’t that I would only ever have just 200 lbs. My overall point was that the additional weight I’d bring would be CLOSER to 200 than the trailer’s max carrying capacity, AND even if I loaded the sucker up until I hit max capacity, I’d still be under my max towing numbers. Maybe after going camping a bunch of times I end up with 500 lbs of stuff, which seems like an AWFUL amount of stuff, but still less than half of the max capacity and still keeps me under the max towing and payload ratings of my truck.

Why is that soooooo difficult to understand? The memories are going to be from the places we go, things we do, people we’re with, and having fun doing it together. Not loading our camper to the max and pulling it across the country.

[sourdough]

I knew the post was a bad idea. Good luck to the OP on trying to "figure things out". By the way, grab 2 full 30lb. propane bottles and 2 12v wet cell deep cycle batteries and throw them on a scale and get back to me.

And by the way, THESE were your exact words "Loading just 200 lbs in the camper has a much better result, and would be a more real life scenario for me".

I'm done.

[c_l_phillips72]

I knew the post was a bad idea. Good luck to the OP on trying to "figure things out". By the way, grab 2 full 30lb. propane bottles and 2 12v wet cell deep cycle batteries and throw them on a scale and get back to me.

And by the way, THESE were your exact words "Loading just 200 lbs in the camper has a much better result, and would be a more real life scenario for me".

I'm done.



Here’s post #1 and post #7.


2023520236

Your initial post was post 8, right after the text that I quoted, so I assumed since I posted before you then you had seen that post.

I’ve given my reasons multiple times for why 200 lbs is more of a real life scenario for me than packing the trailer to it’s max, but you continue to ignore all of that and cherry pick sentences in my posts to point out how stupid I am or how I’m completely unwilling to learn.

I don’t need that, I don’t want that, and I don’t deserve that. If that’s all you’re going to do, please stop “bending over backwards” trying to “help” me. It’s not helpful.

You’re the only one who has attacked me, so I’m guessing others noticed I was here asking questions instead of telling everyone why something would work when everyone was telling me it wouldn’t.

[c_l_phillips72]

I knew the post was a bad idea. Good luck to the OP on trying to "figure things out". By the way, grab 2 full 30lb. propane bottles and 2 12v wet cell deep cycle batteries and throw them on a scale and get back to me.

And by the way, THESE were your exact words "Loading just 200 lbs in the camper has a much better result, and would be a more real life scenario for me".

I'm done.



One more thing...

There are 2 trailers; 1 with a carrying capacity of 1,000 lbs and 2,000 lbs for the other.

Does that mean that just because there’s a trailer with a 2,000 lb capacity that you HAVE to load 2,000 lbs into the trailer with only a 1,000 lb capacity?

Of course not.

Is it absolutely mandatory that 2,000 lbs MUST be loaded into the trailer with a 2,000 lb capacity?

Again, of course not.

Is there something wrong with loading 1,000 lbs into the trailer with a 2,000 lb capacity?

Is there something wrong with loading ANY amount under 2,000 lbs into the trailer with a 2,000 lb capacity?

I certainly don’t think so, but it seems that YOU think that it is MANDATORY to load the trailer to it’s max, and loading it with any other weight is completely and unequivocally wrong.

[Retired Copper]

CI welcome. I towed a 2670 with a F150 for awhile. The 2670 dry weight listed is a little over 5100lbs but my door listing was over 5300lbs with a GVW of 7000. 30.6 feet so close to the 292. Tv was a F150 3.55 with max tow of 7800, just for reference. After shocks and lt tires to firm up the half ton it did alright but I wanted more than alright. It handled two lane and back roads great at speeds under 55mph. I was happy until I hit the interstates. First the truck really started feeling the trailer the closer to 60mph I would get and 62 was about all I wanted to handle. 2 out of 10 semi`s would push and pull the truck though no bad.I wanted more because I had pulled a fifthwheel and knew it could be better. all this at a shorter and lighter trailer. So I understand Danny`s statement you don`t know what you don`t know because I know what I wanted. If you ever get that perfect setup you know it and if you never had it you don`t know it. I have followed Danny`s post on travel trailer towing and agree with most of what he has posted on the matter. He like the rest of us want you to have a great experience. This is my opinion. Is you purpose set up doable? Maybe but you still might not like the results. Do I recommend it? I cannot knowing what I know about pulling a 30 plus foot trailer even close to max weights. I don`t think it`s the weight so much as the length. People do it all the time and some way worse. They probably aren`t towing far or often and they don`t know what they don`t know. Best of luck to you and best whishes and if you go that route I hope I am wrong and you enjoy the tow more than I did.

[ctbruce]

Here is a good video worth the watch on calculating the weights and matching truck to trailer.

Also keep in mind that many of us on this forum have already been where you are going towards, me included. We are sharing from our experience and not just or untried opinions. Worst experience of my life was pulling a way over safe weight trailer to Yellowstone with my max tow package 1500. It made for a lot of stress and stains in my undies.

This group specializes in safety and I think they make a clear presentation on how to accomplish that.
https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

[notanlines]

If I might inject a smidgen of humor where it is needed: Chris, the OP, said or asked "Why do I need to bring tons of crap with me when we won’t even be using it?"
I'm betting not a one of the old-timers on this forum have an answer for that. The times that my DW and I have swapped RV's we have discovered hundreds of pounds of crap that never gets used. Duplication of tools and cooking utensils are two good examples. When we sold the Raptor and moved into the Suites we had 1900 pounds of "stuff" in the Raptor. Honestly, how many bottle jacks does one RV'er need?
And Chris, your comment "The memories are going to be from the places we go, not loading our camper to the max and pulling it across the country" should be looked at twice. That journey will be filled with memories and adventures, just like the fishing, rain-storms and poison ivy of the destination. It will be great bonding time.
Welcome to the forum by the way. Check your PM box.
Jim

[Javi]

Fellow is looking for validation not advice or approval...

Dude.... you're good, 200 lbs is more than enough stuff..

[slow]

CI, here are a few points of reference for your consideration when estimating. Our situation is for what I consider a lightly loaded 23RB. This is what we learned at the CAT scales:

Full 2x 20 lb propane tanks, 1/3 full (12.5 US Gal) in forward mounted FW tank, empty waste tanks, 12V group 24 battery on tongue, Aussie BQ that came with TT, bedding, utensils, melamine dishes/glasses/cups, aluminum pot/pans, dry and canned goods for two adults. Clothing for a weekend, lawn chairs, electrical cord extension, wood blocks for stabilizers and upgraded queen mattress. No adult refreshments, tools or toys.

* Loaded (scaled) vs. dry trailer weight (as claimed by Keystone): 933 lbs
* Tongue weight without hitch (scaled) when loaded: 733 lbs

Some background on our situation: We started towing with the F150 we already had with a fairly generous 1800+ payload capacity and factory LT tires and Rancho adjustable shocks all around. The F150 with a Propride hitch was very stable. The 4spd F150 had to be locked out of 4th to handle our head winds and being 13 years old when we wanted to go on longer trips, we decided to buy a F250 gasser (cheaper than a F150 at the end of the model year). With our 23 foot TT's 6800 lb GTW, a half ton with adequate payload capacity, a 4 point hitch (like the Equalizer) and the new 6 speed or greater transmission would do fine IMO.

This brings me to a point that has not been shared yet in detail that I believe is an additional important consideration The trailer box length. The longer the trailer the larger the sidewall sail being pulled and influenced by passing vehicles and winds. A general rule of thumb often shared on the forums is that for a stable tow, TT length should be limited to 20 feet for the first 120 inches of TV wheel base, plus another foot of TT length for every additional 4 inches of wheel base. So for our 156 inch wheel base F250, the maximum suggested TT length would be 29 feet. What would the suggested maximum TT length be for your TV?

I hope this and the other posts help you make an informed decision so you will not be stressed over the decision when behind the wheel towing your new TT.

[German Shepherd Guy]

:popcorn:


JMO, :hide: I have not been on the list that long but have found Sourdough's advise well intended and sound. After reading this thread I continue to think so. I have had more than one occasion to be thankful for his experience.



OP, don't read to much into a comment, :whistling:seriously the guys and gals here are truly on your team and willingly share their experiences from real life situations.
They are not "bashing" you. :nonono:


Of course no one but you knows your situation.


Sounds like you have a adequate set-up and hope you enjoy the ride.


Your math seems to add correctly, though some might suggest you will have a hard time adhering to your own weight restrictions. I believe your original thought was about the math. ;)


Good luck, enjoy the coming season.


From the high mountain passes of the frozen Colorado Rockies,


(As always this time of year, I am soooo ready for spring. Only three more months. :()
Oak