6.7 Diesel Ideas?

[Pull Toy]

Our 2016 Ford 6.7 has started fine and easy at -5. Our old 6.0 got "plugged in" at 20, just to be SAFE!

Any thoughts how low to trust the 6.7 not to need 110v block heater!


B-r-r-r-r- in CT!

Good Luck.

[Canonman]

Isn't it more about the fuel turning to jelly??

[Chris P]

My wife's grand Cherokee has the artic package and has a block heater(gas motor) I plug it in anytime its 35 and colder.With your diesel I would plug it in as long as cold.

[Frank G]

With good batteries you can almost always start a late model Diesel with equipped with grid heaters or glow plugs with temps well below 0 without using a block heater. There is much less stress and quicker warm-up's when the block heater is used. My truck rarely sees temps below freezing any more but when it did it would always get plugged in. In the old days we always carried a can of Ether for cold starts.

[Tbos]

My 6.7 doesn’t have the plug. It starts fine into single digit temps. However, it was making some very odd whining noises. When I hit my bakes the noise changed. Once it warmed up the noise stopped. Does anyone have any ideas?

[brad2388]

My 6.7 doesn’t have the plug. It starts fine into single digit temps. However, it was making some very odd whining noises. When I hit my bakes the noise changed. Once it warmed up the noise stopped. Does anyone have any ideas?



It was probly the normal operation of the turbo vanes closed.

When very cold they close the turbo vanes to put back pressure on the engine to create heat to help with warm up. And also elevage the idle a little bit. As soon as the brake pedel is pushed it goes back to normal operation.

[MattHelm21]

My 2016 6.7 let me down in negative single digit temps here in the northeast. It really hurt because my 12 year old Duramax block heater wasn’t used once and never failed to start in the same temperatures. I do not use any fuel additive because the diesel here gets a winter blend. When that happened, I plugged in the block heater and after a few hours the 6.7 started right up.

Now, if I know nightly temps will be single digits or below, I plug the block heater in just to be safe.

[brad2388]

My 2016 6.7 let me down in negative single digit temps here in the northeast. It really hurt because my 12 year old Duramax block heater wasn’t used once and never failed to start in the same temperatures. I do not use any fuel additive because the diesel here gets a winter blend. When that happened, I plugged in the block heater and after a few hours the 6.7 started right up.

Now, if I know nightly temps will be single digits or below, I plug the block heater in just to be safe.



Did it try to start and fail? Or not even turn over at all?

[Ken / Claudia]

I would read the manual and do what it says during cold temps.

[MattHelm21]

Did it try to start and fail? Or not even turn over at all?

It tried to turn over and seemed as though it should start but wouldn’t fire at all. I’m fortunate where I live that we only get these temperatures a few times a season so using the block heater at those times isn’t really inconvenient.

[JRTJH]

My 6.7 doesn’t have the plug. It starts fine into single digit temps. However, it was making some very odd whining noises. When I hit my bakes the noise changed. Once it warmed up the noise stopped. Does anyone have any ideas?

We had a discussion about block heaters back in 2015. All Ford 6.7l diesel engines come from the motor assembly plant with block heaters installed. The "option" that you have to order is the $75 power cord/plug. You can get an aftermarket power cord/plug on EBay for about $25.

The old thread about this is located here: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24092&page=2 Go to posts #17 and 18 for photos of where the block heater is installed on the engine (lay down behind the passenger front tire, look up at the engine in the rear corner just above the oil pan and you'll see the block heater installed in a freeze plug hole. The wiring harness is all you need to buy to have the functional engine block system.

[Fishsizzle]

And then there’s this:



https://www.rvtravel.com/ford-recalls-410000-trucks-in-u-s-for-block-heater-cable-defect/

[JRTJH]

According to that link, "Ford Motor Company (Ford) is recalling 410,289 2015-2019 Ford F-150 and 2017-2019 Ford F-250 Super Duty, F-350 Super Duty, F-450 Super Duty, and F-550 Super Duty pick-up trucks in the U.S. equipped with an engine block heater"

It affects "models 2017-19 Super Duty vehicles built at Ohio Assembly Plant between Feb. 5, 2016 and Nov. 17, 2018 and at Kentucky Truck Plant between Oct. 8, 2015 and Nov. 17, 2018"

As I understand it, the trucks we're discussing (2015 and 2016 SuperDuty models) aren't affected by the recall and I'd guess, from the way Ford works, that buying a cable assembly from a Ford dealer would be a "safe bet". Additionally, the recall affects OEM cable assemblies, not the actual block heater installed in the engine. It also doesn't affect aftermarket cables available on EBay or from other sales outlets.

[gearhead]

I'd be running a 5W-40 full synthetic oil to start with.

[Fishsizzle]

According to that link, "Ford Motor Company (Ford) is recalling 410,289 2015-2019 Ford F-150 and 2017-2019 Ford F-250 Super Duty, F-350 Super Duty, F-450 Super Duty, and F-550 Super Duty pick-up trucks in the U.S. equipped with an engine block heater"

It affects "models 2017-19 Super Duty vehicles built at Ohio Assembly Plant between Feb. 5, 2016 and Nov. 17, 2018 and at Kentucky Truck Plant between Oct. 8, 2015 and Nov. 17, 2018"

As I understand it, the trucks we're discussing (2015 and 2016 SuperDuty models) aren't affected by the recall and I'd guess, from the way Ford works, that buying a cable assembly from a Ford dealer would be a "safe bet". Additionally, the recall affects OEM cable assemblies, not the actual block heater installed in the engine. It also doesn't affect aftermarket cables available on EBay or from other sales outlets.

Yep I read that part. Just throwing it out there.

[JRTJH]

Yep I read that part. Just throwing it out there.

It's all good. I park my truck in the garage, have never plugged in the block heater, so honestly, I don't know if it works or not. When the initial recall was announced, my DD was "beside herself" warning me to get it checked before I "burn down the house"..... Ford has never sent me a "recall notice" (my truck isn't included in the recalls, so....) and all the checking I've done indicates it only applies to 2017-2018 SuperDuty models, not the previous generation.

[ADQ K9]

Up in the oil field where I work Deadhorse, Alaska, most of the 6.7 trucks have been modified with at least battery warmers in addition to the block heater. some go further and add pan heaters to the oil and transmission pans. when you have all of these units plugged in it will trip your 20 AMP breaker there a few companies that make a control box to handle the load so you can plug all of the heaters in together
Search Cold Snap LLC or Truckwell AT500
According to my owners manual, Ford says plug in at minus 20. I am not gonna take that chance and will plug in below 20 above if it sits out side, my truck normally its in the heated garage.

[Fishsizzle]

It's all good. I park my truck in the garage, have never plugged in the block heater, so honestly, I don't know if it works or not. When the initial recall was announced, my DD was "beside herself" warning me to get it checked before I "burn down the house"..... Ford has never sent me a "recall notice" (my truck isn't included in the recalls, so....) and all the checking I've done indicates it only applies to 2017-2018 SuperDuty models, not the previous generation.

Yeah I didn’t get a notice on my 17. It sits outside, it gets “cold” never used the heater. The post about minus 20 intrigued me. I’ll have to see what the manual says. My truck didn’t come with the diesel manual. Maybe 17+ don’t have one.

[JRTJH]

2011-2016 owner's manuals have a diesel supplemental manual. It looks like in 2017 and beyond both engine types (gas and diesel) are incorporated in the single owner's manual. Keep in mind that there's no thermostat on the block heater, when you plug it in, it's "100% powered" and remains on as long as it's plugged in. The manual states that it takes about 3 hours to reach "maximum effectiveness in heating the coolant" and beyond that time, it doesn't help (but it doesn't hurt either). The block heater doesn't heat the oil or the batteries (there's probably some radiant heat to those but negligible heat transfer). Leaving it plugged in all night won't hurt, but won't help beyond that 3 hour window.

Of course, who is going to get up at 3AM to plug it in so it's warm at 6AM ????? :popcorn:

[Fishsizzle]

2011-2016 owner's manuals have a diesel supplemental manual. It looks like in 2017 and beyond both engine types (gas and diesel) are incorporated in the single owner's manual. Keep in mind that there's no thermostat on the block heater, when you plug it in, it's "100% powered" and remains on as long as it's plugged in. The manual states that it takes about 3 hours to reach "maximum effectiveness in heating the coolant" and beyond that time, it doesn't help (but it doesn't hurt either). The block heater doesn't heat the oil or the batteries (there's probably some radiant heat to those but negligible heat transfer). Leaving it plugged in all night won't hurt, but won't help beyond that 3 hour window.

Of course, who is going to get up at 3AM to plug it in so it's warm at 6AM ????? :popcorn:

Thanks for looking up the manual. I haven’t had time to dig into the glove box

I used to have a timer on my 7.3. It was inline with the extension cord. Pluged it into wall, then ran cord out to truck. I’m no electrician, so don’t know amp draw and if an outdoor timer would be enough for the block heaters. It worked well with the 1997 I had and the 1999, 2001.

[Chris P]

My grand Cherokee and my son in laws Ram ecodiesel draws 3.2 amps

[JRTJH]

Thanks for looking up the manual. I haven’t had time to dig into the glove box

I used to have a timer on my 7.3. It was inline with the extension cord. Pluged it into wall, then ran cord out to truck. I’m no electrician, so don’t know amp draw and if an outdoor timer would be enough for the block heaters. It worked well with the 1997 I had and the 1999, 2001.

It looks like the power consumption according to Ford is 0.4-1.0 kilowatt/hour. At 120 VAC that equates to somewhere between 3.5-8.5 amps. So a 10 amp (1200 watt) timer capacity would be enough. If it's an outside plug, then protect the timer from the weather.

The info is on pages 180-185 or around there.

[Fishsizzle]

It looks like the power consumption according to Ford is 0.4-1.0 kilowatt/hour. At 120 VAC that equates to somewhere between 3.5-8.5 amps. So a 10 amp (1200 watt) timer capacity would be enough. If it's an outside plug, then protect the timer from the weather.

The info is on pages 180-185 or around there.

At some point in time I’d love to know what you have done in your life. I say that in a good way!

[JRTJH]

At some point in time I’d love to know what you have done in your life. I say that in a good way!

I was raised on a 40 acre share-cropper farm, walked behind Sally (our mule) on Saturday mornings. Watching horse flies crawl across her butt was my "Saturday morning cartoons". When I was about 12, we finally got electricity, indoor plumbing and an old JD tractor, I learned to drive it between the butterbean rows and hated milking cows at 4AM and 4PM daily, 365 days a year. When I graduated from high school, I joined the Air Force to avoid the Army draft. I started out in electronics in the Air Force, mainly missile guidance, taught solid state electronics theory at Lowry in Denver for a few years, earned my BS in electrical engineering, worked on the flightline in a fighter/interceptor outfit, ran the OMS shops (sheet metal, engine, hydraulics, corrosion control/paint, etc), when I retired from USAF I worked for Boeing for a couple of years in Quality Assurance, certifying airworthiness on the KC 135 tankers that were sent back to Boeing for major modifications. I was tired of airplanes, so I went to nursing school, became an RN, worked in general and cardiac surgery for years, went back to school, got my Masters and PhD in nursing and was a nurse practitioner in general practice for about 15 years, the last 10 with the VA where I cared for 1500 veterans ranging from about 20 to well over 90 with 3 that were older than 100. During my USAF time in Denver, I did "part time" RV repair and wound up owning an RV repair shop with consignment RV's for sale. Once I retired from the Air Force, I continued flying privately, owned my airplanes, considered going into the crop dusting business with one of my uncles, but never got up the courage to "strafe ants" for a living. Now that I'm retired, I fly occasionally, but no longer own my own aircraft, although if my DW would let me, I'd buy a fully aerobatic ultra-light for fun when I'm not "flying the Cougar or the Slingshot"....

I suppose you could say that after 70 years of "learning and doing" I'm a "jack of many trades and a master of one (nursing)"

[Chris P]

John ! YOU DA MAN! THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE AND WHAT YOU DO.

[sandy43]

JRTJH, Wow. It's obvious you've been around the block awhile, had no idea about your education, very impressive. I always read your post and thank's for addressing mine. Your a real blessing to this forum, Many Thanks.

P.S. I'm just an Old Aggie :)

[Fishsizzle]

Thanks John. That was inspiring For all those who think that the “American Dream” is just a dream and you are stuck, learn from people like John. Anyone can be self made, they just have to believe in themselves and DO! Don’t wait for a hand out. Don’t like your situation,? Then change it. Hard work will always get you where you want to be.

Thanks again

[notanlines]

Fish says "Hard work will always get you where you want to be." That says it all. I believe throwing in goals helps keep that hard work headed in the right direction.

[Fishsizzle]

Fish says "Hard work will always get you where you want to be." That says it all. I believe throwing in goals helps keep that hard work headed in the right direction.

Agree, even if the goal is “just so I’m not here doing what I’m doing”

[sgrol]

Took my 17 F350 in for block heater warranty work by the local dealer. Desk jockey came out, looked around the front end and then declared I don't have a heater so no worries. Got home and looked at my window sticker and it was listed as an option. I went out and looked around and found the plug and cord. You know darn well that all the cords and plugs are in the same place on every truck model year. Another reason I NEVER take my truck to dealer for anything other than warranty work.

[Chris P]

Its amazing how lazy they can be. All he had to do was put your vin # in the computer or better yet ask someone else there for help.

[xrated]

I was raised on a 40 acre share-cropper farm, walked behind Sally (our mule) on Saturday mornings. Watching horse flies crawl across her butt was my "Saturday morning cartoons". When I was about 12, we finally got electricity, indoor plumbing and an old JD tractor, I learned to drive it between the butterbean rows and hated milking cows at 4AM and 4PM daily, 365 days a year. When I graduated from high school, I joined the Air Force to avoid the Army draft. I started out in electronics in the Air Force, mainly missile guidance, taught solid state electronics theory at Lowry in Denver for a few years, earned my BS in electrical engineering, worked on the flightline in a fighter/interceptor outfit, ran the OMS shops (sheet metal, engine, hydraulics, corrosion control/paint, etc), when I retired from USAF I worked for Boeing for a couple of years in Quality Assurance, certifying airworthiness on the KC 135 tankers that were sent back to Boeing for major modifications. I was tired of airplanes, so I went to nursing school, became an RN, worked in general and cardiac surgery for years, went back to school, got my Masters and PhD in nursing and was a nurse practitioner in general practice for about 15 years, the last 10 with the VA where I cared for 1500 veterans ranging from about 20 to well over 90 with 3 that were older than 100. During my USAF time in Denver, I did "part time" RV repair and wound up owning an RV repair shop with consignment RV's for sale. Once I retired from the Air Force, I continued flying privately, owned my airplanes, considered going into the crop dusting business with one of my uncles, but never got up the courage to "strafe ants" for a living. Now that I'm retired, I fly occasionally, but no longer own my own aircraft, although if my DW would let me, I'd buy a fully aerobatic ultra-light for fun when I'm not "flying the Cougar or the Slingshot"....

I suppose you could say that after 70 years of "learning and doing" I'm a "jack of many trades and a master of one (nursing)"

John, thank you for taking the time to post a little about yourself. You've been a busy man for a lot of years. I've had the feeling, ever since I joined this forum that you were quite knowledgeable about electrical things, because of the answers that you've posted. I had no idea about your other skills and achievements...and all I can say is Wow, you are a man of many talents. Thanks again for sharing.

[Genek]

My 2018 F350 states that the block heater is not needed above 0 degrees. Plus it is noted that there is no thermostat to control the temp of the bloc...therefore, if you put it in at higher temps it does not have a thermostat to control the max temp.

[jimborokz]

Had trouble starting one morning on my 17. Think the temp was around 0. It would crank ok and fire, it just would stay running. Had a heck of a time finding the plug for the heater. By the time I found it, it had warmed up enough to start on it's own. I have since found the right solution--stay south in the winter...

[NHcamper]

I have an F-350 6.7 diesel up here in cold NH it is a 2013. I have never plugged it in. It could sit idle in my garage for weeks on end in the coldest weather -20 and start like it was summer. Never an issue. I just wait until the glow plug light goes out and it starts within 2-3 seconds.

[mikz86ta]

Isn't it more about the fuel turning to jelly??
No, block heaters warm up the coolant and engine. Plus in a diesel it helps heat the cylinder which is important for combustion.

Fuel can gel in the filter or tank which is separate areas not affected by block heaters

[Boogi_man]

I have a 2013 Chevy Silverado 3500 diesel. Last January, 2018, camping the the Kansas City area. Temperature dropped to single digits for a week straight. My fuel gelled a couple of days into the stay. Mechanic said they get flooded with gelled fuel issues every year. All it takes is adding a fuel additive each fill up while extremely cold to prevent the gelling.

[msp2jxr]

I have a 2015 6.7 and it started at 15 below with no problem and that was when it was still new with only a few thousand miles on it.

[Thundershorts]

I have a 2016 6.7 that I usually plug in when the temperature is around 0. A few weeks ago it was -25 to -30 all weekend, it started Monday but it turned over slowly. It was plugged in, but I found out Monday night the block heater wasn’t working. It only has 35,000 miles on it. The block heater was replaced the next week under warranty. As long as the batteries are good, I found the glow plugs will heat it up enough. I still prefer to plug in.

[JRTJH]

My diesel tractor sits in an unheated pole barn and doesn't have a block heater. I use a small magnetic heater on the transmission (to warm the hydraulic fluid) and just double click the glow plugs (turn the ignition on, when the glow plug light goes out, turn the ignition off/on and start when the glow plug lamp goes out the second time). I've never had an issue with the tractor starting, but when it's super cold the hydraulic fluid is like thick honey and the pump just won't/can't push the fluid through fast enough. Once warmed up, it runs great.

I use a KATZ 200 watt magnetic heater and attach it to the bottom of the transmission rear axle. It keeps the hydraulic fluid "thin enough to flow through the pump" and through the oil cooler in front of the radiator.

I've never had a problem with diesel engines starting as long as the battery is fully charged, the glow plugs are working and the fuel isn't gelled.

[jimborokz]

I was told by a very knowledgable deisel guy that once the glow plug light goes out to leave the key on and wait another 10 seconds or so as the heater stays on after the light goes out. I haven't had a cold morning since to try the theory out.

[xrated]

I was told by a very knowledgable deisel guy that once the glow plug light goes out to leave the key on and wait another 10 seconds or so as the heater stays on after the light goes out. I haven't had a cold morning since to try the theory out.

That theory would be pretty easy to check out if you have an amprobe for AC voltage. Sequence would be:
1. Cold truck with the engine heater plugged in
2. Place amprobe on circuit going to the truck engine block heater
3. Have someone turn the key switch on and verify that the light is on for the heater.
4. Other person looking at the current draw on the circuit.
5. As soon as the light goes out, that person lets the other person know it's out
6. Watch and see if the current drops off as soon as the light goes out or if it continues to pull the same amount of current for several seconds or longer.

Continued current after the light goes out proves that it is true. If the current goes down as soon as the light goes out....theory false.

Another thing to keep in mind, the older Ford diesels (2010 and older), the light stays on for several seconds before going out. On the 2011 and later, with the new 6.7L diesel engine, the light is only on for less than a second or so, in most instances. The new motor has completely different glow plugs that heat almost instantly.