30amp 120v to 50amp 240v upgrade

[BlakeRL]

I currently have a 1996 to 2006 Keystone Tailgator Sprinter Fifthwheel Toyhauler with a 30amp service 120v Magnetek 6345 Power Distribution Center and Converter which I am about to replace with a WFCO 8930/50 NPB-50 Power Distribution Center and WFCO WF-9875 75amp DC Converter both of which are on order.

I already have purchased and received a 36’ 6/6/6/8 service cord, new twistlock receptacle for exterior wall and a waterproof twistlock cord endplug to attach to the camper end of the service cord!

I still need to acquire an additional few feet of 6/6/6//8 wire to connect from the internal side of the new wall receptacle to the PDC and separate Converter and could use some advice and tips on specific breaker types to purchase such as brand and single/double pole variants as well as DC Fuse brands and sizes etc given my intended load distribution scheme of which I have included a layout drawing I did last night for my camper and it’s existing and future appliances/ electric devices and such.

WFCO recommends 3 specific brands and breaker types which I will list below in a sub-comment as the PDC and manual has not arrived yet and I will need to submit this new thread post before I navigate away from it to make notes about the breakers.

In general I need a dual pole 50amp 240v Main Cutler Hammer, ITE Siemens or Square D breaker and either 6 more brand and then need 3 same brand single pole or double pole breakers for the left side of the PDC in those three branch slots providing either 3 or 6 Branch Circuits and 3 same brand single pole or double pole breakers for the right side of the PDC in those 3 branch slots providing 3 or 6 more Branch Circuits. 20amps AC are being provided to the Converter via a plug already installed in the back of the PDC.

With 50amp 240v being 2 phases (hot legs) of 50amp 120v each I have a total of 100amps of 120v of which 20 is dedicated to the Converter leaving me with 80amps of 120v AC to distribute out from 6ea single pole Breaker Branch Circuits or 6ea double pole Breaker providing 12ea Branch Circuits.

I have not checked and written down the wattage consumption of each electrical device yet which I need to do but based on the illustration I created I could use some general advice on what combination of single and double pole Breakers and amperage you might advise I purchase to distribute the load in the best way possible.

I realize I will likely have to restring 12/2 w ground wiring and possibly heavier gauge to some devices but for starters am going to utilize the existing distribution until I open up the walls and ceiling for other needed repairs before I re-wire the final plan.

Also would it be advisable to retain my existing 30 amp service PDC (but bypass the old 12v side by using the new PDC’s 12v side instead) as a backup and feed it off of a single 30amp breaker (solely for AC, Heat, Water Heater, etc) for now in case I encounter a 30amp only service scenario and create a second customized service cord from my old one routing it to the correct side of the PDC where I would place the 30amp single pole Breaker and how would you recommend configuring it?

I have both an electrical and electronic background so doing the work will be no problem but any advice and ideas would be greatly appreciated as I am figuring out the most practical and efficient load distribution scheme.

I will be attaching the illustration Of my floor plan and devices in a comment/reply below.

Thanks in advance for any ideas or tips in this endeavor to create a modular 30 and 50amp combo system.

PS, as far as 12v or 6v DC Batteries go, would you recommend 2 banks of 6v high amp service hour batteries with 2ea 6v in series and 2 more in series together attached to the other 2 in parallel or would I be as well off with 12v high amperage hour marine gel batteries in parallel to achieve the most hours of usage in a no power scenario.

I intend to add a T57R Switch and 7kw 50amp 240v 2ph Generator as well and a solar array in line as well and am currently how To best employ the switching systems in the correct order but that will be a future bucket list item after I perform needed structural repairs, re-wiring and a new Liquid EPDM Roof after the structural repairs!

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[BlakeRL]

Well, it will not let me to selectthe photo of my drawing from my phones photo’s but only has the option to go to a URL to retrieve an image?

Guess I will have to find somewhere to place it somewhere wth a URL address!

[BlakeRL]

Any ideas on a good photo hosting location to upload my photo with a URL address so I can retrieve and place it here for analysis to answer my questions?

[BlakeRL]

Any ideas on a good photo hosting location to upload my photo with a URL address so I can retrieve and place it here for analysis to answer my questions?

Okay figured it out again!

Here is the Illustration I drew last night.

Thanks in advance

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[BlakeRL]

Breakers approved by WFCO:

Main:
Cutler Hammer BR250 or C250
ITE/Siemens Type QP
Square D Type HOM

Branch:
Cutler Hammer BD2020 or A2020
ITE/Siemens Type QP or QT
Square D Type HOM

[cookinwitdiesel]

I am just intrigued at the amount of computer/server stuff you will have in your trailer :D

Are you an on the road IT consultant?

[BlakeRL]

I am just intrigued at the amount of computer/server stuff you will have in your trailer :D

Are you an on the road IT consultant?

I am just intrigued at the amount of computer/server stuff you will have in your trailer :D

Are you an on the road IT consultant?

I used to be both a computer tech (IT) guy and a digital artist and also was a videographer, video editor, video encoder, photo editor, 3D Modeler, 3D Animator, web designer and web developer, as well as a Commercial pre-press Technician, etc, etc amongst too many other things through my life.

In the military alone I held 7 MOS’s (Military Occupational Specialties) one of which was 25Z which is a Visual Information Chief and transitioned to that one from 25M which is Multimedia Illustrator.

I was also a government GS9 Audio Visual Information Specialist and a GS10 Illustrator.

In civilian I had 2 sideline business doing IT, computer repair and consulting, etc for both PC’s and Mac’s and 3 sideline businesses doing graphic design, web design, web e-commerce development, visual and audio product development etc, and Marketing.

These sideline businesses were during my years working regular jobs in civilian and while a part-time Army National Guardsman.

In the Military (both active Army and part-time Army Guard) I held the following MOS’s:
11B Infantry
91A/B Combat Medic
18D Special Forces Medical Sargeant
96B Intelligence Analyst
25M Myltimedia Illustrator
25Z Visual Information Chief
79T ARNG Recruiter
79T Marketing NCO

In civilian did everything from construction to IT, etc it seems.

Been in bad depression and health since 2006 and lost my drive after leaving the military and then my wife and daughter left me and I even became homeless for a stint before buying my first old 1960 something camper and living in it and now this Fifthwheel camper I live in.

Anyway I am trying to climb back out of that bad place and trying to get back into being productive again and have started clearing the cobwebs out my brain pan and doing digital illustration, graphic design, web e-commerce site development etc, again on a small scale to see how I handle the stress.

I keep my systems clean and uncluttered and free of too many apps and utilities not used for specific focuses.

So my Design station is used for photo editing, digital art, graphic design, website and e-commerce site development.

My Video Editing station is used solely to capture and edit video footage, transcode/encode video and audio as well as perform videoediting, compositing and rendering tasks.

My 3D Modeling station is used solely for 3D Modeling, animating 3D scenes and characters, rendering 3D scenes and characters.

My Media Server hosts all of my entertainment, video, movies and audio music stored on multiple hard drives via Plex Server and serves it out to other devices throughout with Plex clients installed on them such as mobile phones, TV’s, FireTV Sticks/Boxes, Roku’s, other computers, etc.

2 iMac 21” computers are used for various tasks as well as are my two laptops (1 Macintosh and 1 Windows 7 system) being used for various tasks. My 3rd Laptop (Alienware M17x) I hacked to run run Windows 7, Macintosh OSX and Linux all on the same laptop and can boot into which ever Operating System (OS) I desire to use.

All systems are networked together with 1 Gigabyte speed routers via cat5e cabling and WiFi and I use a hub system to distribute the Cat5e cabling, coax cabling and telephone cabling. Have not strung wire into the walls and ceiling yet though so cabling is a nightmare until I do.

All 4 Desktop Windows 7 computers use a KVM switch with dual monitor output and usb to feed 1 monitor each from each of the 2 video cards in each computer through the switch so each computer can use the same two monitors and one keyboard and mouse and is it is easy switch each computer back and forth to the same two monitors, single keyboard and single mouse.

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[cookinwitdiesel]

The amount of IT in your trailer makes me happy haha. I am a Systems engineer who sells network security appliances and also a gaming laptop enthusiast (5 alienwares over the years and eyeballing the new 17" announced at CES). As such, I enjoy a healthy setup of gaming laptop/desktop in my office and enterprise grade servers and networking in my basement (basement set up in picture attached). Having all that on the go with me in my trailer would be a lot of fun but my wife may kill me.

Good luck with the electrical work, I had contemplated a similar upgrade because the 30A 120V service is so neutered in terms of power available (especially if the AC is on). Next trailer will absolutely be a 50A service.

The RV walls may not be deep enough for a keystone jack'd RJ45 Cat 5E setup, maybe just put cable conduits in the corners like a crown/base molding? lol

Looking forward to seeing your progress as you get stuff done.

[BlakeRL]

The amount of IT in your trailer makes me happy haha. I am a Systems engineer who sells network security appliances and also a gaming laptop enthusiast (5 alienwares over the years and eyeballing the new 17" announced at CES). As such, I enjoy a healthy setup of gaming laptop/desktop in my office and enterprise grade servers and networking in my basement (basement set up in picture attached). Having all that on the go with me in my trailer would be a lot of fun but my wife may kill me.

Good luck with the electrical work, I had contemplated a similar upgrade because the 30A 120V service is so neutered in terms of power available (especially if the AC is on). Next trailer will absolutely be a 50A service.

The RV walls may not be deep enough for a keystone jack'd RJ45 Cat 5E setup, maybe just put cable conduits in the corners like a crown/base molding? lol

Looking forward to seeing your progress as you get stuff done.

That is a sweet setup!

I created a Facebook Group for RV and Motorhome Remodeling Ideas so will be documenting the upgrade for it and will share it here with you as well.

As a temp solution for now until all of the products arrive I bought a 50amp male plug to 2ea 30amp female plugs Y adapter and made a second 30 amp service cord. Plugged the male 50amp into the shorepower box 50amp 240v receptacle then plugged my camper into one of the female plugs and then ran the second service cord into the camper and put a 30amp male plug to 2ea 15/20 amp female plug Y adapter on then inside end of the second service cord to power the heater and systems in the back for now.

Could have gone with a 50 to 30/20 Y adapter but wanted to use a heavy 30amp service cord to feed the addition load to the back for now.

It is a economical temp way to get more power if needed and it is available when your camper has a 30amp service.

When I do the upgrade I will pull that back out and and definitely put it in my collection box of adapters for future use should the need arise.

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[cookinwitdiesel]

Hmm, that is a good idea and a lot easier than redoing the electrical for the whole RV. Just have to add a "subpanel" or something similar to break that second ~30A 120V connection into usable plugs for inside the RV. Could even be a standalone box that sits in the pass through on my trailer in my case and send power lines up through the "Laundry" cutout in the bedroom.

It would actually be completely kosher to do a 50A 120V service as that 2nd leg and leave the built in 30A 120V alone. So your 240v 50A at the post splits into 50A 120V (break out box) and 30A 120V (shore power). No breakers will trip, more power available for use in the RV, modular, winning!

Just have to make sure you have the right sized cables and connectors to carry that load safely.

Since I am not expertly knowledgeable on how those splitters are wired, I may be inclined to "build" a splitter so I know that each service is off of the different 120V legs and wont over load one side by accident. That is necessary to get the most juice out safely. Then you would just need a short 50A - 50A male to male cord to connect your "box" to the post. Plug the 30A shore power into the box and have a (50A 120V rated) cable to carry the remaining power into the RV.

[BlakeRL]

Hmm, that is a good idea and a lot easier than redoing the electrical for the whole RV. Just have to add a "subpanel" or something similar to break that second ~30A 120V connection into usable plugs for inside the RV. Could even be a standalone box that sits in the pass through on my trailer in my case and send power lines up through the "Laundry" cutout in the bedroom.

It would actually be completely kosher to do a 50A 120V service as that 2nd leg and leave the built in 30A 120V alone. So your 240v 50A at the post splits into 50A 120V (break out box) and 30A 120V (shore power). No breakers will trip, more power available for use in the RV, modular, winning!

Just have to make sure you have the right sized cables and connectors to carry that load safely.

In my upgrade that is why I am toying with leaving my existing PDC I tack but bypass the 12 volt side by moving it to the new PDC and Converter. Then install a 30amp single pole Breaker in one of the branch circuit slots of the new panel to supply juice to the existing PDC without old Converter. Will not have to require any existing AC Circuits then until I want to move everything over to the new PDC.

Same concept anyway but in my case working with 2ea phases of 120v 50amp versus 1 50amp phase (hot leg).

Your idea would work great for you!

I have to go to a VA Hospital GI Lab appointment and will check back when I get back from the Nashville VA Hosp.

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[cookinwitdiesel]

Here is something I sketched up - would not have to touch internal RV wiring.

Would need to make sure wires are sized large enough to be safe of course.

[BlakeRL]

Here is something I sketched up - would not have to touch internal RV wiring.

Would need to make sure wires are sized large enough to be safe of course.

Unfortunately can not make out the labeling and when blowing it up it is too blurry/low resolution.

I am waiting area for my appointment so can’t get on a computer either but could you upload a higher resolution or email one to me.

Is it allowed to put my email address in here if so.

Thanks in advance

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[cookinwitdiesel]

Ya, my handwriting is not the best - did I mention I am an engineer? Lol

Private message your email and I will shoot it over

I could see building this as 2 boxes, each mounted in a pelican or something similar to be both portable and durable.

[BlakeRL]

Ya, my handwriting is not the best - did I mention I am an engineer? Lol

Private message your email and I will shoot it over

I sent the PM. Let me know if you do not get it.

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[BlakeRL]

Ya, my handwriting is not the best - did I mention I am an engineer? Lol

Private message your email and I will shoot it over

I could see building this as 2 boxes, each mounted in a pelican or something similar to be both portable and durable.

I forgot that on here to see an image clearly when blown up that you can’t just click on it to launch the viewer but have to allow it to open up into a new page then can blow it up and retain resolution

That said I just viewed and your handwriting is fine, haha.

That would definitely do the trick.

Great diagram!

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[cookinwitdiesel]

Well, I also emailed it to you :)

This could be great for people limited to a 30A shore line on their trailer. Came up with 3 real use cases immediately:

1) Space heater in bedroom if furnace doesn't get much heat to that end of the trailer
2) Wife can use a hair dryer without bringing down the whole trailer if someone uses the microwave or AC
3) Add a 2nd AC unit for bedroom but do not want to deal with wiring it into the trailer electrical system which is the actual hard part of the install (just have a power cord lose that can be plugged in)

[BlakeRL]

Well, I also emailed it to you :)

This could be great for people limited to a 30A shore line on their trailer. Came up with 3 real use cases immediately:

1) Space heater in bedroom if furnace doesn't get much heat to that end of the trailer
2) Wife can use a hair dryer without bringing down the whole trailer if someone uses the microwave or AC
3) Add a 2nd AC unit for bedroom but do not want to deal with wiring it into the trailer electrical system which is the actual hard part of the install (just have a power cord lose that can be plugged in)

Well, I also emailed it to you :)

This could be great for people limited to a 30A shore line on their trailer. Came up with 3 real use cases immediately:

1) Space heater in bedroom if furnace doesn't get much heat to that end of the trailer
2) Wife can use a hair dryer without bringing down the whole trailer if someone uses the microwave or AC
3) Add a 2nd AC unit for bedroom but do not want to deal with wiring it into the trailer electrical system which is the actual hard part of the install (just have a power cord lose that can be plugged in)

Yep. Nice job! You could even market that idea and sell them or just share the design with the community at large.

I am going to modify the interior surfaces of the rear toyhauler section area building custom internal cabinets into the walls that do not extend more into the interior than the toyhauler ramp door with my computer logic boards, power supplies and drives built into them instead of their original cases and integrate a Soundsystem controller to the fascia of the cabinets looking like regular stereo controls, and speakers, etc along with swing in monitors from recesses in the custom sidewall cabinetry and a swing down TV from a custom overhead console so that all the equip will not interfere with the use of the back ramp door opening when you he monitors, speakers and TV are returned to their unused positions because I want to be able to drop the ramp door down to a level position and mount a detachable and foldable frame for a canvas skin as well, being I do not have any slideouts and so I can still get toys into the rear end of the camper when desired.

Of course those mods are all still in the idea stage at this point and on the back burner for now.

Currently toying with different ideas of how to cool the hidden computer systems effectively though while retaining a clean design with ports for the cooling and fans and also need to consider how to safely protect the systems from potential roof or wall water leaks so I may have to learn how to weld thin aluminum sheet material or something to build the structures and access panels out of to contain them and then skin them with material like they do in custom high top vans like the Mark III’s and others.

If you wouldn’t mind I may want to pick your brain a little when I get to that point on my remodel.

Have a few ideas some of which might even be marketable.

A custom box like you diagrammed would be an easy way to provide the power to the enternmaint/office area for folks not wanting to fiddle with existing trailer wiring to undertake various modifications such as that as well.

I will keep you posted on how this project unfolds and the solutions I come up with as unexpected design flaws present themselves.

If you decide to promote your 240v 50amp Y adapter with a 120v 50amp sub panel breakout box on one of the split and 30amp 120v female plug on the other side of the split let me know and I will promote or share the concept to other RV owners within your desired guidelines.

I would consider making it a 3 way adapter splitter though to take advantage of the remaining 20 amps left on the phase with the 30amp 120v female plug and add a 20amp 120v plug that could be used to run the spare power to a heated water hose or power tool as needed etc. so one phase would go to your sub panel design inside and the other phase splitting out to both a 30amp female plug and a 20amp female plug!

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[BlakeRL]

Yep. Nice job! You could even market that idea and sell them or just share the design with the community at large.

I am going to modify the interior surfaces of the rear toyhauler section area building custom internal cabinets into the walls that do not extend more into the interior than the toyhauler ramp door with my computer logic boards, power supplies and drives built into them instead of their original cases and integrate a Soundsystem controller to the fascia of the cabinets looking like regular stereo controls, and speakers, etc along with swing in monitors from recesses in the custom sidewall cabinetry and a swing down TV from a custom overhead console so that all the equip will not interfere with the use of the back ramp door opening when you he monitors, speakers and TV are returned to their unused positions because I want to be able to drop the ramp door down to a level position and mount a detachable and foldable frame for a canvas skin as well, being I do not have any slideouts and so I can still get toys into the rear end of the camper when desired.

Of course those mods are all still in the idea stage at this point and on the back burner for now.

Currently toying with different ideas of how to cool the hidden computer systems effectively though while retaining a clean design with ports for the cooling and fans and also need to consider how to safely protect the systems from potential roof or wall water leaks so I may have to learn how to weld thin aluminum sheet material or something to build the structures and access panels out of to contain them and then skin them with material like they do in custom high top vans like the Mark III’s and others.

If you wouldn’t mind I may want to pick your brain a little when I get to that point on my remodel.

Have a few ideas some of which might even be marketable.

A custom box like you diagrammed would be an easy way to provide the power to the enternmaint/office area for folks not wanting to fiddle with existing trailer wiring to undertake various modifications such as that as well.

I will keep you posted on how this project unfolds and the solutions I come up with as unexpected design flaws present themselves.

If you decide to promote your 240v 50amp Y adapter with a 120v 50amp sub panel breakout box on one of the split and 30amp 120v female plug on the other side of the split let me know and I will promote or share the concept to other RV owners within your desired guidelines.

I would consider making it a 3 way adapter splitter though to take advantage of the remaining 20 amps left on the phase with the 30amp 120v female plug and add a 20amp 120v plug that could be used to run the spare power to a heated water hose or power tool as needed etc. so one phase would go to your sub panel design inside and the other phase splitting out to both a 30amp female plug and a 20amp female plug!

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

This way if you only have a single 50amp 240v receptacle in your shore power box you can still utilize all 100amps available!

[cookinwitdiesel]

That extra 20A would be very easy to add and useful in multiple possible ways. Nice idea!

[BlakeRL]

That extra 20A would be very easy to add and useful in multiple possible ways. Nice idea!

No problem and glad to help.

Nice to have a fellow tech head/gear head combo type soul to communicate with.

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[Bostongone]

I agree that this is a good way to add more power to an existing 30 amp TT but building the box should only be attempted by someone familiar with basic household/RV electricity. I also noted the lack of a 30 amp breaker prior to the TT 30 amp outlet. Should have one as the TT service cord could see a possible 50 amp surge if “something” happened prior to the 30 amp breaker in the TT PDC. The idea of adding an additional 20 amp outlet in parallel to the 30 amp TT outlet is also feasible but would also be required to be protected with a 20 amp breaker. I don’t have part numbers but am thinking of the toggle type on/off circuit breakers used in Champion generators for example.
Perhaps an updated schematic could be generated to help anyone considering building this distribution box.
Thanks!

[BlakeRL]

Hi Bostongone

I agree that this is a good way to add more power to an existing 30 amp TT but building the box should only be attempted by someone familiar with basic household/RV electricity. I also noted the lack of a 30 amp breaker prior to the TT 30 amp outlet. Should have one as the TT service cord could see a possible 50 amp surge if “something” happened prior to the 30 amp breaker in the TT PDC. The idea of adding an additional 20 amp outlet in parallel to the 30 amp TT outlet is also feasible but would also be required to be protected with a 20 amp breaker. I don’t have part numbers but am thinking of the toggle type on/off circuit breakers used in Champion generators for example.
Perhaps an updated schematic could be generated to help anyone considering building this distribution box.
Thanks!

Hi Bostongone

True about not doing this if you are not familiar with electricity and wiring (preferably RV/Marine wiring). Also multiphase versus single phase.

If you zoom in on cookinwitdiesel’s diagram you can make out that he does show both a 50amp and a 30amp Breaker in the diagram albeit the text is a bit hard to make out.

If adding an additional 20amp circuit on the leg that the 30amp is coming off, yes it should have a breaker as well to avoid overheating the wiring, plug blades and receptacle hardware in case of surges/spikes.

In his comments to me he also indicated that the wire gauges would need to be of an appropriate size for the amperage in the various parts of the sub panel and breakout box.

************************************************** ********
WARNING: If not trained or knowledgeable in electrical skills and RV/Marine/Home wiring please DO NOT do this without having an electrician knowledgeable in RV/Marine shore power wiring inspect and approve your work before attempting to use a homemade box such as this concept project splitter box/panel and breakout box!

Also do not attemp a 30amp 120v to 50amp 240v Power Distribution Center (PDC) upgrade without having a knowledgeable RV/Marine electrician inspect and approve your work.
************************************************** ********

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[JRTJH]

There is a much easier (and cheaper) way to obtain an added 20 amps by simply installing a separate 20 amp outside quick disconnect, using 12 ga ROMEX to an interior outlet and using the 20 amp plug on the campground power pole. Then, the only added expense would be a 12 ga extension cord. If the distance from the campground power pole is greater than about 30' or so, I'd suggest a 10 ga extension cord, otherwise, just locate the exterior quick disconnect near to the location where the interior outlet is desired and rely on the campground power pole circuit breaker to protect the system.

[cookinwitdiesel]

That would work, my goal was zero work needed on the trailer itself

[BlakeRL]

There is a much easier (and cheaper) way to obtain an added 20 amps by simply installing a separate 20 amp outside quick disconnect, using 12 ga ROMEX to an interior outlet and using the 20 amp plug on the campground power pole. Then, the only added expense would be a 12 ga extension cord. If the distance from the campground power pole is greater than about 30' or so, I'd suggest a 10 ga extension cord, otherwise, just locate the exterior quick disconnect near to the location where the interior outlet is desired and rely on the campground power pole circuit breaker to protect the system.

I have noticed here in the campground I live in that some poles only have a 50amp 240v receptacle. Others only have a 30amp 120v receptacle. My location I am in until I relocate does have all three breakered receptacle types though fortunately 50amp 240v, 30amp 120v and a GFCI 20amp 120v duplex receptacle.

I did not know that a 20amp quick connect plugin like that was made. Thank you for that image and tip. If they make those in female I may get one to feed 15/20amp back out from my bathroom GFCI for my heated water hose and security camera over in the rear driver exterior if my next location only has a 50amp shorepower receptacle! Currently my Outside passenger side duplex receptacle, kitchen sink duplex receptacle and two each inside duplex receptacles in the toyhauler section are fed off of that GFCI receptacle in the bathroom. I could just tap into one of those toyhauler section receptacles on the drivers side of the camper and tie it to a female version of that male quickconnect you uploaded the image of. Thank you!

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[Bostongone]

BlakeRL, I did go back and do concur that there is a breaker in both the TT outlet leg as well as the 50 amp added leg. They were a little difficult to see at first! Appreciate adding comments about having work checked by a qualified RV/Marine electrician.
Been two attempts on my life operating on or using electrical equipment, once in the service where a floor buffer handle sparked like hell when it touched a wall outlet box. Seems that the “tech” somehow wired the hot lead to the buffer chassis. Second attempt happened when I had my hands inside of some commercial test equipment and I quickly discovered that the on/off switch was in the neutral return? Yes, had polarized three prong plug!

[BlakeRL]

BlakeRL, I did go back and do concur that there is a breaker in both the TT outlet leg as well as the 50 amp added leg. They were a little difficult to see at first! Appreciate adding comments about having work checked by a qualified RV/Marine electrician.
Been two attempts on my life operating on or using electrical equipment, once in the service where a floor buffer handle sparked like hell when it touched a wall outlet box. Seems that the “tech” somehow wired the hot lead to the buffer chassis. Second attempt happened when I had my hands inside of some commercial test equipment and I quickly discovered that the on/off switch was in the neutral return? Yes, had polarized three prong plug!

I got a pretty heavy jolt once back in the 90’s by the capacitor in a 21” CRT SuperMac Monitor myself that I was repairing and it rocked my world but was not the fault of anyone other than myself for not bleeding the stored charge out of it first. Gave me a pretty healthy respect for electricity though.

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[Bostongone]

High voltage DC is a different animal! Theory being that it cramps the muscles and makes it difficult to let go!

[firemedic1560]

Great ideas on this thread. Going back to your original question, while I use Square D whenever I can, I am not so much a fan of the Homeline series. I have very little formal electrical training, but worked with my neighbor who was a journeyman electrician for years. If you compare the standard Square D to the Homeline series, the Homeline is just not quite as robust. The standard Square D is called QO, which stands for quick open. Also the QO series has the orange trip indicator that the Homeline does not. Maybe a little easier finding a problem in the dark, or without your glasses on, etc.

[BlakeRL]

Great ideas on this thread. Going back to your original question, while I use Square D whenever I can, I am not so much a fan of the Homeline series. I have very little formal electrical training, but worked with my neighbor who was a journeyman electrician for years. If you compare the standard Square D to the Homeline series, the Homeline is just not quite as robust. The standard Square D is called QO, which stands for quick open. Also the QO series has the orange trip indicator that the Homeline does not. Maybe a little easier finding a problem in the dark, or without your glasses on, etc.

Thank you for that information! That helps me narrow down the possibilities and prompts me to inquire of WFCO why the do not list the QO series on their compatibility list.

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[firemedic1560]

It could be as simple as cost. the QO series is more expensive. Also, they may not have tested their equipment with it. If they didn't test with a particular combination or line of equipment, it may not be "factory approved."
It is usually all about reducing liability. If they didn't test the QO line and there is a failure, they can deny responsibility. Let me know what they say.

[sourdough]

High voltage DC is a different animal! Theory being that it cramps the muscles and makes it difficult to let go!


AC will do the same thing. Running trouble on a line wire ckt. once upon a time and found a broken jumper wire on one of the wires. It essentially just left a single strand of wire unterminated that ran miles under a electrical transmission line. Got lazy and careless; took off my line gloves and decided to "adjust" my hooks to get more comfortable to make the repair. Put one bare hand on the unterminated wire and the other on the down guy/anchor NEVER thinking about it being an unterminated conductor. As soon as I placed my hand over the strand for the downguy both my wrists/hands arched straight up and yanked me forward as I felt the 60 cycles just pulse the heck out of my upper body. It was physically impossible to pull my hands off the wire with muscle strength. I could get my fingers to barely open by pulling with all my strength but that was it - and when I did there were blue/blue white electrical sparks shooting constantly from my finger tips to my palms. As I stood there after several attempts to pull loose it began to dawn on me that this could very easily stop my heart. I told the fellow below me (I was up maybe 30') that I was going to ungaff and see if my body weight would pull my hands free. He advised not to since there was a steel fence post right below me. Finally just kept going down the pole using weight and body strength and when I finally suspended all my weight with all my muscle power one hand broke free releasing the hold on me. I just slumped forward against the pole completely wore out. Made the repairs, pulled a meter up and measured what was there: 1000vac but very little amperage. If there had been high amps I suppose I would have just hiccuped and fried up there.

Long story to illustrate that AC can grab your muscles too. To me DC feels like it "burns" and AC "pulses" - for lack of a better description. Be careful when working with any of it - unless you read it first you don't know what is waiting for you until you become that final piece that gives the power the path it is looking for.

[Frank G]

Great ideas on this thread. Going back to your original question, while I use Square D whenever I can, I am not so much a fan of the Homeline series. I have very little formal electrical training, but worked with my neighbor who was a journeyman electrician for years. If you compare the standard Square D to the Homeline series, the Homeline is just not quite as robust. The standard Square D is called QO, which stands for quick open. Also the QO series has the orange trip indicator that the Homeline does not. Maybe a little easier finding a problem in the dark, or without your glasses on, etc.

Just remember the Homeline and QO Breakers are not interchangeable. The Square D Homeline series is geared for residential use. The QO series is heaver duty and rated for switching duty. They perform well but they will fail after time when used as switching devices. I doubt the QO series is available at the big box stores anymore.

[Frank G]

I have not attended any NEC training seminars lately, like 30 years, but I do know as of 2002 Arc Fault Circuit Breakers are required in residential installations. Kind of questioning how the RV industry got exempted. We'll see if Google knows. :ermm:

[BlakeRL]

Thank you for all of the information and feedback! It is much appreciated.

I am going to delay this upgrade for a couple to 4 weeks possibly.

If you were aware of my flooding issues from another thread where I asked for help in finding my VIN and year model of my camper I have good news.

Just worked out a new lot arrangement in a wooded single lot on a farmers farm in Alabama on Sam Mountain.

That said I will be relocating my camper and other possessions throughout the month of Feb.

I also have a 2006 31’ foot tongue pull camper in rough shape and other trailers and vehicles to relocate so may have to wait until I have completed the move.

Excited about going to a rural wooded location though and will be happy not getting flooded anymore.

I will post when I start performing the upgrade though and keep you abreast of any additional unforeseen issues that may arise and solutions I come up with.

Thanks again

Sincerely,
Ronald L. Blake

[tundrwd]

Did you include enough power for all the “blinky lights”?

The essence of technology is - blinky lights!

Especially impressive when viewed from outside the trailer at night!!!

Anyway good luck and glad you’re getting it together again.

[lfd311]

The Square D "QO" Series is available at most home centers (Lowe's, Home Depot, Etc). As is the Homeline series. Like someone above mentioned, the QO series is more of a commercial duty breaker and not sure why it's not listed as recommended for use with WFCO. Maybe a quick e-mail to their customer support would help there??
One other thing to consider, since you had mentioned that you would be adding a generator at some point. If you use two separate service entrances (30 & 20), wiring in a transfer switch may prove problematic to you. I see no reason why you can't wire it as you said - 50 Amp from pedestal to camper, then add the sub-panel and a 30 amp breaker to connect to your existing panel. It would be just as if it was fed from the pedestal. It wouldn't know the difference. Then you could add whatever you'd like to the new panel to try and balance the load. Not as much of a problem when you're connected to shore power as it would be if you were running off the generator.