Towing heavy with 3/4 Ton... How Many Know......

[rhagfo]

I am just wondering as one who towed for years with a Ram 2500 towing over GVWR. How many of the others that do the same keep a close eye on their other weights? I am referring to axle and TIRES.

While I was well over the GVWR of our 2001 Ram 2500, I was still under rear GAWR and far under the optional 265/75-16E tire rating of 3,415# capacity.

My math was GVWR 8,800#, GVW with 5er was 10,500# that is 1,700# over, but rear GAWR was 6,084# (Based on standard 245/75-16E tires 3,042# rating) last scale rear axle was 5,900#.

I watched the later weights closely, tires being the crucial item.

Just to be clear;
2001 Ram 2500 CTD GVWR 8,800#. It had Camper and tow packages also with 3500 rear spring pack.
Weight ready to tow 7,800#
Weight with 5er connected 10,500#
Rear axle 5,900# (GAWR 6,084#)
Front axle 4,600# (GAWR 5,200#)

5er weight 12,700# Pin 2,700# axles 10,000#
GCVW 20,500#

Just wondering is it just an assumption by others that if a 350/3500 SRW can carry it so can they just slap some bags on it (I didn't have bags!), or do you weigh and watch axle and TIRE ratings.

This could also apply to those carrying a 5er with a 150/1500.

I no longer need to worry about that for a while now.

[mtofell]

I watch my weights very close - 2014 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi. Payload 3040#. 5th wheel is around 11,000#. Loaded up with family, hitch, some stuff in the bed and the loaded 5th pin, I can be as much as 500# over GVWR but still under RAWR of 6800#. Tires are good for 3600# each. I weigh regularly and the highest I've ever seen my rear axle is 6050#. Usually, it's around 5700 - 5800#. Not a lot of room to spare but enough that I'm comfortable. Especially with tires being good up to 7200# between the two.

To me, tires and axle ratings are king. Never, never exceed them. I wouldn't ever have a setup that consistently put me over 90% of either of those (even though I'm sure the engineers have plenty of safety factored in as well). GVWR? Nice to stay under but I personally don't feel it's a safety concern exceeding it unless it also means going over tires or axle ratings.

[sourdough]

Russ I'm just going to jump in here. I'm not really sure what you are asking or where you're observations point.

As you know I have made observations about your previous weights. I also know you always tried to tell others that what you did was not something they should do. Unfortunately, to me, to new owners that was always a bad example because you always tried to justify what you were doing, even though you were way over all weight limits....some newbies I'm sure took that the wrong way and made wrong decisions.

You gave, and have given, lots of numbers that point to the fact you were overloaded (very), then, you point out spring packs, tires and tow packages to basically say it was "alright". You, and we, know that was not the case. Now you have upgraded vehicles (super) because you know you needed to.

Is this post trying to justify towing overloaded because you upgrade tires etc. and trying to find how many others do or?? That's all I get out of it I think. Axle AND tires? I'm not sure what that means. The numbers are posted on the vehicle...whatever you choose to do doesn't change that unless you take the measures necessary with the applicable regulatory agencies. Did you do that?

Here's a post I made recently about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear;..

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36331

[rhagfo]

Sourdough, first I am NOT attempting to justify towing over GVWR. Yes I have done it for about six years with our current TV.
What I was trying to get to, is if those that tow 5ers that take their 2500 over GVWR, do they respect any other weight rating. ESPECIALLY tires, they tend to be the weakest link.
Many mid to late 2000's 2500's ran with 17" tire with a weight rating of only 3,195#.
I will be the first to state that while it towed great, that large number was always in the back of my mind.
You should know by now that I recently solved that problem! :D

https://i.imgur.com/OAcljXW.jpg

[CWtheMan]

Your story is very common. I’ve given comments on weights before. The gist here will be the same.

Manufacturers of vehicles build them to a given weight called Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Once the vehicle is ready for the open market the vehicle manufacturer must certify it as having complied with all vehicle safety standards as of the date of certification. It’s a serious document and has severe legal consequences for vehicle manufacturer violations. That is why, in the last section of vehicle certification, there is a notation that states only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority to change a certified GVWR value.

The vehicle owner that disregards the GVWR and continuously exceeds it may never suffer vehicle damages for their actions. However, they are exceeding a weak link somewhere and it is more likely to fail when constantly overloaded.

When the vehicle is built the manufacturer must meet minimal safety standards and sometimes are required to exceed them with “reserve load capacities”. That’s true of axles and tires on automotive vehicles but not on RV trailers.

The Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR) is to the axles as GVWR is to the vehicle. Except, on automotive vehicles there is going to be a percentage of reserve load capacity provided by tires that exceed the load capacity of the axles and axles that exceed the load capacity of the vehicle. It’s a mechanical/engineering thing that owners have mixed trusts in.

The simple answer; GVWR = the weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer as the maximum weight (including vehicle, cargo, liquids, passengers, etc.) the components of the chassis are designed to support.

[rhagfo]

Your story is very common. I’ve given comments on weights before. The gist here will be the same.

Manufacturers of vehicles build them to a given weight called Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Once the vehicle is ready for the open market the vehicle manufacturer must certify it as having complied with all vehicle safety standards as of the date of certification. It’s a serious document and has severe legal consequences for vehicle manufacturer violations. That is why, in the last section of vehicle certification, there is a notation that states only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority to change a certified GVWR value.

The vehicle owner that disregards the GVWR and continuously exceeds it may never suffer vehicle damages for their actions. However, they are exceeding a weak link somewhere and it is more likely to fail when constantly overloaded.

When the vehicle is built the manufacturer must meet minimal safety standards and sometimes are required to exceed them with “reserve load capacities”. That’s true of axles and tires on automotive vehicles but not on RV trailers.

The Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR) is to the axles as GVWR is to the vehicle. Except, on automotive vehicles there is going to be a percentage of reserve load capacity provided by tires that exceed the load capacity of the axles and axles that exceed the load capacity of the vehicle. It’s a mechanical/engineering thing that owners have mixed trusts in.

The simple answer; GVWR = the weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer as the maximum weight (including vehicle, cargo, liquids, passengers, etc.) the components of the chassis are designed to support.

Well I wasn't defending what I did and you should have caught the fact I was referring to to those that tow over GVWR, do they just do it blindly, or do they pay attention to TIRE ratings.

To a point in 2001, the frame in a Ram 2500 and 3500 DRW were the same.
They had ONE GVWR for a 2500 and ONE GVWR for a 3500 DRW, there wasn't a 3500 SRW from 1994 to 2002, you could get a 2500 with Camper Package that had 3500 springs, axle, and additionally optional 265/75-16E tires, but zreo increase in GVWR.

[sourdough]

Sourdough, first I am NOT attempting to justify towing over GVWR. Yes I have done it for about six years with our current TV.
What I was trying to get to, is if those that tow 5ers that take their 2500 over GVWR, do they respect any other weight rating. ESPECIALLY tires, they tend to be the weakest link.
Many mid to late 2000's 2500's ran with 17" tire with a weight rating of only 3,195#.
I will be the first to state that while it towed great, that large number was always in the back of my mind.
You should know by now that I recently solved that problem! :D

https://i.imgur.com/OAcljXW.jpg


I'm LOVING that truck Russ! Now, if I could just get DW to let me tear down the existing garage and rebuild....:nonono:

[Ken / Claudia]

Well, I had a 96 f250, SC 4x4 7.3. and as most know if they check, the f250 and f350 at that time shared the same rear end, brakes and most other parts. Mainly 1 less spring in rear and maybe raiser blocks of different size. Most important was they came with 8 ply D rated tires. The f350s with 10 ply E rated tires.
I later got a 10 foot in bed truck camper and went to the nearest Oregon dot scale. The dealer said I would be fine. (anyone heard that one)
I was over 200 lbs on each rear tire and maybe close or just over by a 100 to 200 lbs on GVWR. I went to the tire shop and got tires on the same wheels that gave me 200 lbs extra than needed with the camper/truck loaded.
A couple hundred pounds over on the GVWR is over I understand but we are splitting hairs. I felt being over 200 lbs max on each rear tire was too much. Maybe it would have never been a problem. I upgraded to the f350 as soon as I could, which was 2 years after the camper purchase.

[CWtheMan]

Well I wasn't defending what I did and you should have caught the fact I was referring to those that tow over GVWR, do they just do it blindly, or do they pay attention to TIRE ratings. That's why I went with a general statement rather than a direct quote.

To a point in 2001, the frame in a Ram 2500 and 3500 DRW were the same.
They had ONE GVWR for a 2500 and ONE GVWR for a 3500 DRW, there wasn't a 3500 SRW from 1994 to 2002, you could get a 2500 with Camper Package that had 3500 springs, axle, and additionally optional 265/75-16E tires, but zero increase in GVWR. The vehicle manufacturer is solely responsible for determining the weakest links. Obviously, in their opinion, no increase in GVWR was warranted. The consumer can look to other models or manufacturers for increased GVWRs. (The Ram started using tubular framing construction with year model 2004).


Minimal wheel, tire and axles selections are set by government regulations. As long as the vehicle manufacturer meets those minimum requirements their vehicles are certifiable for such selections.


The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo.

A certified vehicle modifier may have the ability to increase GVWR by upgrading the known weakest links. However, some may be confidential and only the vehicle manufacturer can reveal what they are. In the long run, IMO, it would be less expensive to just trade UP. The modifiers hourly scale for such modifications is quite high. A place to research those monitory scales might be those that modify MDTs for RV trailer towing.

http://www.dmbruss.com/zRedRover/RR_MediumDutyTruck.htm

[Snoking]

Your story is very common. I’ve given comments on weights before. The gist here will be the same.

Manufacturers of vehicles build them to a given weight called Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Once the vehicle is ready for the open market the vehicle manufacturer must certify it as having complied with all vehicle safety standards as of the date of certification. It’s a serious document and has severe legal consequences for vehicle manufacturer violations. That is why, in the last section of vehicle certification, there is a notation that states only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority to change a certified GVWR value.

The vehicle owner that disregards the GVWR and continuously exceeds it may never suffer vehicle damages for their actions. However, they are exceeding a weak link somewhere and it is more likely to fail when constantly overloaded.

When the vehicle is built the manufacturer must meet minimal safety standards and sometimes are required to exceed them with “reserve load capacities”. That’s true of axles and tires on automotive vehicles but not on RV trailers.

The Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR) is to the axles as GVWR is to the vehicle. Except, on automotive vehicles there is going to be a percentage of reserve load capacity provided by tires that exceed the load capacity of the axles and axles that exceed the load capacity of the vehicle. It’s a mechanical/engineering thing that owners have mixed trusts in.

The simple answer; GVWR = the weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer as the maximum weight (including vehicle, cargo, liquids, passengers, etc.) the components of the chassis are designed to support.

So the state of Washington licenses tonnage based on a price scale determined by empty weight times 1.5 and then rounded to the next higher even ton as min.

Our 2001.5 2500 RAM with a 8800 lb manufacturers GVWR was licensed to 12K. Accord to Washington's version of the federal bridge weight laws, I was able to operate the truck above the manufacturers GVWR legally. Actually they could care less about GVWR. Given that states all have reciprocal agreements, I could also operate the vehicle according the Washington's rules in the other 49 states.

Our 2015 RAM 3500 SRW SB has a 11,700 manufacturers GVWR, and is also licensed by the state at 12K, for around 35 dollars per year more I could license it at 14K if I wanted to.

Wadcutter on rv.net who is a retired weigh master and instructor for weigh station personnel in his state has explained this many times to that forum.

No pickup truck will exceed the federal bridge weight laws that care over to state's weight codes. These are the weight laws enforced for vehicles operating on the countries roads at the weigh stations(ARA chicken coops). In addition, states that include tonnage licensing create another requirement that I vehicle operator mush comply to.

https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/publications/brdg_frm_wghts/index.htm

[labman]

don't know if this has anything to do with over/under weight but last Friday on I 40 east of Albuquerque.

https://www.hometownsource.com/elk_river_star_news/double-fatal-crash-in-new-mexico-claims-elk-river-couple/article_f42ee35e-1d2e-11e9-ad94-13741cfb3cc8.html


RIP

[rhagfo]

I'm LOVING that truck Russ! Now, if I could just get DW to let me tear down the existing garage and rebuild....:nonono:

Thanks Sourdough!
So am I and the DW.

[rhagfo]

The vehicle manufacturer is solely responsible for determining the weakest links. Obviously, in their opinion, no increase in GVWR was warranted. The consumer can look to other models or manufacturers for increased GVWRs. (The Ram started using tubular framing construction with year model 2004).


Minimal wheel, tire and axles selections are set by government regulations. As long as the vehicle manufacturer meets those minimum requirements their vehicles are certifiable for such selections.


The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo.

A certified vehicle modifier may have the ability to increase GVWR by upgrading the known weakest links. However, some may be confidential and only the vehicle manufacturer can reveal what they are. In the long run, IMO, it would be less expensive to just trade UP. The modifiers hourly scale for such modifications is quite high. A place to research those monitory scales might be those that modify MDTs for RV trailer towing.

http://www.dmbruss.com/zRedRover/RR_MediumDutyTruck.htm

CWtheMan, you missed the entire point of the post before going on your rant.

Sourdough, seems to have caught the point I was getting at.

The way I see it there are two types that tow over GVWR.

Those that do it and are aware they are over GVWR, but under on other crucial weights, such as axle and tire. They know where they stand on those weights and choose to tow that way. These people don't bother me.

Then there are the uninformed, those that the Salesperson said "you can tow that No Problem" and happily go down the road and never stop at a scale to see what their weights are. They have no clue what GVWR, GAWR, or max weight capacity of their tires. Theses are the ones I worry about.

We Camp Host, and see a lot of 3/4 Ton TV come in the parks with 5ers that surely have them over GVWR, some I am sure know their situation, and watch tire, and axle ratings. Then again I am sure many don't have a clue as to any weight rating, or were told their 3/4 ton has a 17,000# max tow capacity, so go out and buy a 16,500# 5er and go down the road unaware.

I point to questions like the one in this post.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/towing-question-ram-2500-a-427476.html


Personally, we were getting settled into retirement, once we had a good handle on our post retirement finances we chose to get the correct TV.

I will add one more thing, our 2001 Ram 2500 with Camper Package, was the SRW 3500 that Ram didn't offer from 1994 to 2002. Same as 3500 DRW less two rear tires.
I figured if I were to go to a newer 3500 SRW it would be a lateral mover, I would not feel much improvement over our current TV other than more power.

[CWtheMan]

So the state of Washington licenses tonnage based on a price scale determined by empty weight times 1.5 and then rounded to the next higher even ton as min.

Our 2001.5 2500 RAM with a 8800 lb manufacturers GVWR was licensed to 12K. Accord to Washington's version of the federal bridge weight laws, I was able to operate the truck above the manufacturers GVWR legally. Actually they could care less about GVWR. Given that states all have reciprocal agreements, I could also operate the vehicle according the Washington's rules in the other 49 states.

Our 2015 RAM 3500 SRW SB has a 11,700 manufacturers GVWR, and is also licensed by the state at 12K, for around 35 dollars per year more I could license it at 14K if I wanted to.

Wadcutter on rv.net who is a retired weigh master and instructor for weigh station personnel in his state has explained this many times to that forum.

No pickup truck will exceed the federal bridge weight laws that care over to state's weight codes. These are the weight laws enforced for vehicles operating on the countries roads at the weigh stations(ARA chicken coops). In addition, states that include tonnage licensing create another requirement that I vehicle operator mush comply to.

https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/publications/brdg_frm_wghts/index.htm


Every state has vehicle registration fees of some sort. Here in SC my dually is registered for 23,500# and that's on my vehicle registration card. It's the maximum combined weight for my particular model. Without the optional 4.10 and auto trans it would be 22,000#.

Remember the "C" in GCWR =The gross combined weight rating is the maximum allowable combined mass of a road vehicle , the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the mass of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. This rating is set by the vehicle manufacturer.

[Snoking]

This rating is set by the vehicle manufacturer.


That number appears no where in the vehicle, is not part the weight rating label in the door jam and appears only in tow rating charts that most states could care less about, as they enforce the federal bridge weight laws at weigh stations.

[rhagfo]

Every state has vehicle registration fees of some sort. Here in SC my dually is registered for 23,500# and that's on my vehicle registration card. It's the maximum combined weight for my particular model. Without the optional 4.10 and auto trans it would be 22,000#.

Remember the "C" in GCWR =The gross combined weight rating is the maximum allowable combined mass of a road vehicle , the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the mass of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. This rating is set by the vehicle manufacturer.

CW the GCVWR is easily changed by simply changing the rear axle rating, we currently have 3.73's if I dropped 4.10's in our new Ram my Max towing goes from 24,890# and GCVWR 33,800# to Max trailer 30,830 and GCVWR 39,100#

[Snoking]

Every state has vehicle registration fees of some sort. Here in SC my dually is registered for 23,500# and that's on my vehicle registration card. It's the maximum combined weight for my particular model. Without the optional 4.10 and auto trans it would be 22,000#.

Remember the "C" in GCWR =The gross combined weight rating is the maximum allowable combined mass of a road vehicle , the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the mass of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. This rating is set by the vehicle manufacturer.

Did you declare that number or did they ask for all the details of your truck to look it on RAM tow guide, if they could fine it for your year? If you declared it, could you declare a higher number?

[CWtheMan]

Did you declare that number or did they ask for all the details of your truck to look it on RAM tow guide, if they could fine it for your year? If you declared it, could you declare a higher number?


The DMV has the information in their computer files. In fact, when I went to register it the first time the asked me if I had the 4.10.

The owner can declare a lower number. But, if inspected by the state DOT and found over the weight on the registration card the first fine is $500.00.


No one can use a higher value than what the DMV has on file for that vehicle, as equipped.

[CWtheMan]

CW the GCVWR is easily changed by simply changing the rear axle rating, we currently have 3.73's if I dropped 4.10's in our new Ram my Max towing goes from 24,890# and GCVWR 33,800# to Max trailer 30,830 and GCVWR 39,100#


Yup, those values are provided by the vehicle manufacturer. The truck's GVWR did not change.

The GCWR is a combination of tow vehicle and towed vehicle. Individually they cannot be overweight. In other words, a balanced weight is needed to achieve the maximum GCWR.

"The GCWR is a function of the torque output of the engine, the capacity and ratios of the transmission, the capacity of the driving axles and tires, the capacity of the radiator, and the ability of the chassis to withstand that powertrain torque."

[Snoking]

The DMV has the information in their computer files. In fact, when I went to register it the first time the asked me if I had the 4.10.

The owner can declare a lower number. But, if inspected by the state DOT and found over the weight on the registration card the first fine is $500.00.


No one can use a higher value than what the DMV has on file for that vehicle, as equipped.

That is pretty close to an exact opposite of what Washington does for their licensing. You can not license at less than 1.5 times the empty weight rolled to the next even K. You can however pay for any amount over that. The Trailer does not have to be included for private non commercial trailers. Trailers have their own plates based on value, not weight.

[itat]

GVWR is about the weight that the vehicle can carry. GCWR is about the weight the engine can pull.

If you’re going to exceed your GVWR, just don’t overload your rear axle and tires and don’t exceed your GCWR.

[JRTJH]

Take a look at these three trailers. On the "hay wagon" the tongue weighs the same whether the trailer is loaded with 30,000 pounds of hay or empty. That kind of trailer will require considering the GCWR as the most important "towing factor".

Next, take a look at the horse trailer. Notice where the axles are located. That kind of trailer requires a heavier truck to carry a "full load" because the cargo exerts significantly more weight on the truck as the load increases.

Now, take a look at the axle position on most "RV fifth wheel trailers". The wheels are closer to the center of the frame, so that style trailer exerts less weight on the truck than the horse trailer because the weight is more "balanced" fore/aft of the axles.

It shouldn't be "rocket science" to understand that manufacturers advertise "trailer pulling capacity" in their brochures without describing the "STYLE" of trailer. Just because you won't "POP" the rear tires with 30,000 pounds of hay on a trailer with a tongue weight of 150 pounds doesn't mean you can tow a 30,000 pound horse trailer or for that matter a 15,000 pound RV fifth wheel.

The trailer STYLE must be considered as much as the GVW, GCWR, RAWR and tire size......

[rhagfo]

Take a look at these three trailers. On the "hay wagon" the tongue weighs the same whether the trailer is loaded with 30,000 pounds of hay or empty. That kind of trailer will require considering the GCWR as the most important "towing factor".

Next, take a look at the horse trailer. Notice where the axles are located. That kind of trailer requires a heavier truck to carry a "full load" because the cargo exerts significantly more weight on the truck as the load increases.

Now, take a look at the axle position on most "RV fifth wheel trailers". The wheels are closer to the center of the frame, so that style trailer exerts less weight on the truck than the horse trailer because the weight is more "balanced" fore/aft of the axles.

It shouldn't be "rocket science" to understand that manufacturers advertise "trailer pulling capacity" in their brochures without describing the "STYLE" of trailer. Just because you won't "POP" the rear tires with 30,000 pounds of hay on a trailer with a tongue weight of 150 pounds doesn't mean you can tow a 30,000 pound horse trailer or for that matter a 15,000 pound RV fifth wheel.

The trailer STYLE must be considered as much as the GVW, GCWR, RAWR and tire size......

John, the GN Horse trailer you have pictured is appears to be a four horse with large living quarters. It is basically an equestrian Toy Hauler. If hauling four horses, the pin will not likely change much as they balanced over the rear axles. DD bought a used four horse with smaller LQ, that we towed home with our 2500, dry at about 7,000# (30' unit), it had a 2,700# pin, or about the same as our 5er (32' Copper Canyon) loaded to 12,700#.
I did convince DD to buy a 2004 Ram DRW to tow it with.

I understand your point, that that many new to towing don't, just because you have a huge towing capacity, doesn't mean you can carry that much.
Our 2016 Ram has a Max Trailer of 24,890, it would be hard to even stay under rear GAWR, let alone GVWR with a pin of 5,000# to 6,000#!

https://i.imgur.com/l3JQdMN.jpg

[Snoking]

Your story is very common. I’ve given comments on weights before. The gist here will be the same.

Manufacturers of vehicles build them to a given weight called Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Once the vehicle is ready for the open market the vehicle manufacturer must certify it as having complied with all vehicle safety standards as of the date of certification. It’s a serious document and has severe legal consequences for vehicle manufacturer violations. That is why, in the last section of vehicle certification, there is a notation that states only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier have the authority to change a certified GVWR value.

The vehicle owner that disregards the GVWR and continuously exceeds it may never suffer vehicle damages for their actions. However, they are exceeding a weak link somewhere and it is more likely to fail when constantly overloaded.

When the vehicle is built the manufacturer must meet minimal safety standards and sometimes are required to exceed them with “reserve load capacities”. That’s true of axles and tires on automotive vehicles but not on RV trailers.

The Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR) is to the axles as GVWR is to the vehicle. Except, on automotive vehicles there is going to be a percentage of reserve load capacity provided by tires that exceed the load capacity of the axles and axles that exceed the load capacity of the vehicle. It’s a mechanical/engineering thing that owners have mixed trusts in.

The simple answer; GVWR = the weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer as the maximum weight (including vehicle, cargo, liquids, passengers, etc.) the components of the chassis are designed to support.

Here is a post made by Wadcutter on NV.net on 1/21/19.

Please! Let's stick with what is actually the law and not what someone think the law says or wishes the law said just to support their unsupported argument. People who spout off that stuff have never read a law or most likely even know where to look for it even if they could understand what they read.
No LEO is going to give him a ticket for being over the manufacturer's GVWR. There's a very simple reason why. The manufacturer's GVWR is a rating by the manufacturer. It's not a legal weight limit. Manufacturers do not make the law. It is a non-enforceable rating used only by the manufacturer for their ratings. It's not a legal document and has no bearing on legal weights.
I didn't get my knowledge from listening to some fat guy in a flannel shirt sitting around a campfire. I taught truck laws and weight laws for a lot of years. I was recognized by the courts and FMCS as an expert in truck laws and weights. If a person is going to use a legal comment to support their personal opinion then post the statute. At least it might show the person knows what they're talking about.

[CWtheMan]

Here is a post made by Wadcutter on NV.net on 1/21/19.

Please! Let's stick with what is actually the law and not what someone think the law says or wishes the law said just to support their unsupported argument. People who spout off that stuff have never read a law or most likely even know where to look for it even if they could understand what they read.
No LEO is going to give him a ticket for being over the manufacturer's GVWR. There's a very simple reason why. The manufacturer's GVWR is a rating by the manufacturer. It's not a legal weight limit. Manufacturers do not make the law. It is a non-enforceable rating used only by the manufacturer for their ratings. It's not a legal document and has no bearing on legal weights.
I didn't get my knowledge from listening to some fat guy in a flannel shirt sitting around a campfire. I taught truck laws and weight laws for a lot of years. I was recognized by the courts and FMCS(A) (Not applicable with FMVSS)as an expert in truck laws and weights. If a person is going to use a legal comment to support their personal opinion then post the statute. At least it might show the person knows what they're talking about.

This thread has nothing to do with the law. It’s about towing heavy and the consequences.

We are all given owner’s manuals with our tow vehicles. Every one of them says the vehicle is designed for a specific maximum load capacity and its manufacturer says not to load it beyond that maximum load capacity (GVWR). The same is said about GCWR. It’s up to the individual owners to figure-out how to balance their loads and stay within the safety net that’s been provided by the vehicle manufacturers.

Industry standards are laws within themselves.

This is a quote I personally asked for and received from NHTSA. Like most things they write, it's brief and to the point. "Industry Standards generally form the basis for demonstrating product safety & quality before courts, regulators, retailers, consumers and others."

[Ken / Claudia]

I somewhat agree with Wadcutter in post #24. Here is my disagreement. He was a Comm. Truck guy. Not a police officer as I can tell enforcing non comm vehicles. I did both and still do the 2nd part. So this is only about non comm vehicles.
This state has a ORS 815.020 used by police a lot. I would bet most or all
states have some type of law. It is a catch all regarding operation of a unsafe vehicle of non comm vehicle types. So it is not geared to over weight passenger pickups but unsafe operation. I wrote as many troopers did at one time or another.
The number of the law 815.020 is the cite. Then the officer writes TO WIT:
Vehicle over weight by GVWR or tires or axles by xxx lbs if weighted. If not weighed you take a photo showing the bludging rear tires, rear bumper also dragging on road etc. Items that show the vehicle is over weight.
A officer could also write a ticket for careless driving which is a more higher level ticket. Careless is defined as driving a vehicle in a manner that could cause injury to property or persons. All tickets may get challenged in court. All I wrote which was few, I ever lost. I ever heard of a problem with the courts accepting those tickets.

[rhagfo]

I somewhat agree with Wadcutter in post #24. Here is my disagreement. He was a Comm. Truck guy. Not a police officer as I can tell enforcing non comm vehicles. I did both and still do the 2nd part. So this is only about non comm vehicles.
This state has a ORS 815.020 used by police a lot. I would bet most or all
states have some type of law. It is a catch all regarding operation of a unsafe vehicle of non comm vehicle types. So it is not geared to over weight passenger pickups but unsafe operation. I wrote as many troopers did at one time or another.
The number of the law 815.020 is the cite. Then the officer writes TO WIT:
Vehicle over weight by GVWR or tires or axles by xxx lbs if weighted. If not weighed you take a photo showing the bludging rear tires, rear bumper also dragging on road etc. Items that show the vehicle is over weight.
A officer could also write a ticket for careless driving which is a more higher level ticket. Careless is defined as driving a vehicle in a manner that could cause injury to property or persons. All tickets may get challenged in court. All I wrote which was few, I ever lost. I ever heard of a problem with the courts accepting those tickets.

Ken, so how did you use this law as to when to cite someone with it. You mention by weight, but also mention an I quote;

"If not weighed you take a photo showing the bludging rear tires, rear bumper also dragging on road etc. Items that show the vehicle is over weight."

So was the reason for stopping some one the appearance of being over GVWR?
I ask as with our old 2001 Ram 2500, while well over GVWR, I was within axle and well within tire rating. Now we see many that will bag their 3/4 and tow over GVWR and use the bags to level, I never had the need. So I ask would you have a reason to pull over my old combination short of traffic law violation.

https://i.imgur.com/9yiIhxR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bIVQHFv.jpg

[CWtheMan]

Now you have entered the rule of civil law area. It's where those that argue the overloading cases wanted you to go.

Here, in SC there are strict laws for loading your vehicles for more than they are registered to carry. The DMV uses vehicle manufacturer information to determine the maximum certified weight of your vehicles (GVWR). They use the vehicle manufacturer's maximum GCWR. For my particular vehicle there was two maximum loads they would register. 22k for a 3.73 gearing and 23.5K for my 4.10 gearing. My vehicle has a identifiable tag to display that I can tow to a registered value. The vehicle registration card has a block that allows me to be at a maximum of 23.5K when combined.


Our state patrols include active DOT patrol vehicles that carry scales to weigh individual wheel positions. If you have been suspicious enough to attract their attention they are going to check everything.

GCWR: The gross combined weight rating is the maximum allowable combined mass of a road vehicle, the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the mass of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. This rating is set by the vehicle manufacturer.

All vehicle manufacturers emphatically warn that GCWR, GVWR and GAWR should never be exceeded for the reasons of safety and vehicle longevity.

[CWtheMan]

Let’s look at this in a different light.

Just about everyone that’s been towing RV trailers for 5 years or more know a lot about the dangers of tire overloading. They throw treads, blow-out or both.

What makes it seem safe about being overweight with the whole vehicle? Somewhere in that vehicle there is a weak link that is going to fail if constantly overloaded. Maybe not on your watch, but sooner or later it will fail.

[rhagfo]

Now you have entered the rule of civil law area. It's where those that argue the overloading cases wanted you to go.

Here, in SC there are strict laws for loading your vehicles for more than they are registered to carry. The DMV uses vehicle manufacturer information to determine the maximum certified weight of your vehicles (GVWR). They use the vehicle manufacturer's maximum GCWR. For my particular vehicle there was two maximum loads they would register. 22k for a 3.73 gearing and 23.5K for my 4.10 gearing. My vehicle has a identifiable tag to display that I can tow to a registered value. The vehicle registration card has a block that allows me to be at a maximum of 23.5K when combined.


Our state patrols include active DOT patrol vehicles that carry scales to weigh individual wheel positions. If you have been suspicious enough to attract their attention they are going to check everything.

GCWR: The gross combined weight rating is the maximum allowable combined mass of a road vehicle, the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the mass of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. This rating is set by the vehicle manufacturer.

All vehicle manufacturers emphatically warn that GCWR, GVWR and GAWR should never be exceeded for the reasons of safety and vehicle longevity.

Just wondering how many times you have been scaled?

How many times are you going to repeat the same information! :banghead::banghead:


Let’s look at this in a different light.

Just about everyone that’s been towing RV trailers for 5 years or more know a lot about the dangers of tire overloading. They throw treads, blow-out or both.
This is the point I was getting at in my original post! The original statement was basically, that there are those that tow over GVWR and ARE aware and still stay with in axle and TIRE ratings.
Then there are those that have NEVER been to a scale and have NO CLUE!


What makes it seem safe about being overweight with the whole vehicle? Somewhere in that vehicle there is a weak link that is going to fail if constantly overloaded. Maybe not on your watch, but sooner or later it will fail.

So one more time, I never condoned being over GVWR here or any other forum. Just that was my current situation at the time.
As to being overloaded, while I was over the stated GVWR of the 2500, Ram was a bit lazy about multiple GVWR. It seems that I have seen 100's of post on this and other forums about adding bags or other "Leveling" addition because of suspension squat, I never had that issue, even at my last scaling.
So I was not looking for another statement from CWtheMAN about never exceeding and weight rating, NOT my original question.

The original question was if those towing heavy with a 3/4 ton were AWARE there were over GVWR, and watching AXLE and TIRE ratings.
OR were they were TOTALLY unaware of being over GVWR, they were also UNAWARE of axle and tire ratings.

My last post was to Ken, of Ken/Claudia, as to what would be the reason to stop any rig on the road to scale. Did they randomly stop and weigh, or if it had bulging tires, and bumper dragging.

I really don't care any longer as I now have plenty of TV, and not as close to my weight ratings as you are. :facepalm:

[Ken / Claudia]

Regarding post #27. I meant to write rear bumper nearly dragging as in the normal truck rear bumper might be 24 inches above the road is now 6 or 8. A sign of overloaded no matter tonnage. (Dragging the rear bumper on the road of any vehicle is a violation).
Grossly overweight vehicles are easy to spot for the trained eye. An exception as I have stated before is rear air bags. They do hide the droopy truck rear end.
But the tires will give it away. They may be committing other violations, dragging rear mud flaps on road (violation) weaving due to light steering axle (violation if trailer is swaying or goes over the lane markers once). Watch them stop at a red light (if stopping past the crosswalk or stop line is a violation). At night are the headlights pointing into the trees and not the road (violation).
So, some of those factors maybe a overloaded vehicle or not but all allow a traffic stop and a further look. That is a small list of other reasons for a stop.
I am guessing that most when cited for overweight issues are from seeing what looks like a overloaded vehicle. They have been for me.
SORRY I reread the post. To answer the question I think in your case you would past the look over by a state trooper as they pass you on the road for being overloaded in the case you listed. Even if stopped for speeding I doubt many if any would look further.

[rhagfo]

Ken Thanks for your reply.
While I never liked towing over weight, that TV handled it well. I will say I have seen rigs I know should be over weight and look solid. That look fine and others that are squatting like they don't enough spring and bulging tires.

[CWtheMan]

I've been posting here a long time. Most that read my posts know that when we were full timing it down the road we scaled at least three times a year. Now that we are down to a few trips a year we scale after loading for the trip. Seldom do we have to move things around to balance the load because we've done it so often.

There is no excuse for being constantly overweight.

ADD an air bag? Isn't that adding weight to an already problem?

Well, anyway, I'm outta this one.

[BAK]

I've been reading all the posts regarding towing capacity so I built a custom spreadsheet that accounts for everything in my truck and trailer as well as my 2009 Ram 2500's GVWR/GCVWR/Payload/Towing Capacity to get a calculated payload estimate of where I am in regards to being over or under capacity with towing my "Half-Ton" towable 5th wheel.

My 25RES is one of Keystones smallest 5th wheels and is labeled as "Half-Ton" towable so I figured I'd easily come in way under weight. Unfortunately after physically weighing every item we have in the trailer and in the truck (including passengers) I'm showing I am 93 lbs overweight (with no food/drinks in the fridge)…


In looking at being @ 110 - 120 lbs over capacity with groceries i'm not too concerned about being over the limit but it does bother me that Keystone touts this to be a "Half-Ton" towable when it's clearly at my 3/4 ton's limits.

I know this is all based off "calculations" and I will try and get on some scales pretty soon to get a no BS weight.

[rhagfo]

Bak, I see you have a 2009 Ram 2500 CTD, is the GVWR 9,200# or 9,900#? Ram was VERY conservative with GVWR until 2013, then is all went way up.
That is part of the reason the new TV is a 2016 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR! I felt your pain for a long time. Good luck when you scale.
If you carry stuff in the TV bed look at what you can move to the 5er, as then you are only carrying a percentage of it on the TV.

ON EDIT: Wow, with only a 7,500# GVWR and a Payload of 2,500# that 5er shouldn't weigh more than 8,500# loaded, that would be a 1,700# pin at 20%. Once again good luck with the scaling.

[Northofu1]

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[BAK]

Bak, I see you have a 2009 Ram 2500 CTD, is the GVWR 9,200# or 9,900#? Ram was VERY conservative with GVWR until 2013, then is all went way up.
That is part of the reason the new TV is a 2016 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR! I felt your pain for a long time. Good luck when you scale.
If you carry stuff in the TV bed look at what you can move to the 5er, as then you are only carrying a percentage of it on the TV.

ON EDIT: Wow, with only a 7,500# GVWR and a Payload of 2,500# that 5er shouldn't weigh more than 8,500# loaded, that would be a 1,700# pin at 20%. Once again good luck with the scaling.


My GVWR is 9,000 with a stickered payload capacity of 2,331 lbs. I have 926.6 lbs of "stuff" loaded in the trailer so it should weigh in around 8,427 lbs. Based on a 20% of weight calculation for pin weight it should be at 1,685 lbs now. I used 20% since dry weight is 7,500 and listed pin weight is 1,500 which equals a 20% ratio.

This truck was given to me by my dad who moved up to a Class C and no longer needed a truck so I was more than happy to unload my Tundra for this one. Unfortunately it has a roll lok tonneau cover along with a tool box so there's an extra 130 lbs in the bed.

I'm not too concerned about pulling this 5ver since he had been pulling a 15,000 lb when fully loaded 36' Nu Way since the truck was new. About 70,000 miles and almost every state in the US without any issues. Doesn't justify being over loaded but definitely shows the truck is fully capable and well built. :popcorn:

Hopefully I can get it on the scales soon and figure out where it really comes in at and to see how accurate or inaccurate my spreadsheet is.

[daveinaz]

I never did (run over with a 2500) because I never wanted to chance it. I went straight to a diesel dually for our first truck. I just didn't want to ever have the feeling of the trailer pushing me around or getting white knuckled. It may be overkill, especially when driving around town, but the feeling of confidence when the 5er is attached is worth it.

[rbrdriver]

I also started out with a 1/2 ton truck, then moved up to 3/4 ton, and now am in a 1 ton dually Ram. What a difference in handling and just "feeling" much more safer and hauling with confidence. Of course we are pulling a large fifth wheel and I wouldn't even think about pulling it with anything less than what I now have. Just saying........

[Modifier]

Towing over the GVWR is NOT a good idea under any circumstances but too many people do it anyway. For this reason manufactures understate the allowable weight but this should NEVER be depended on. Better be safe than sorry.

[JRTJH]

Towing over the GVWR is NOT a good idea under any circumstances but too many people do it anyway. For this reason manufactures understate the allowable weight but this should NEVER be depended on. Better be safe than sorry.

I've heard this on many forums and in comments made by people who don't reveal their sources or their credentials which would indicate that they may "actually know what they're saying".... I've NEVER seen a statement anywhere from a vehicle manufacturer or contained in any owner's manual or owner's information packet or in any sales brochure that indicates that there is even one pound of "unadvertised or undocumented GVW, GCWR or trailer weight capacity allowance".

If you have any reference material to substantiate that any GVW is "understated" and by "how much", please post the sources. I think we all would like to know how much "extra" we have that isn't on the GVW sticker...

[77cruiser]

This summer I'll axle out mine & come on here & see how bad I get scolded. :cool: :cool:

[notanlines]

Cruiser, if we weren't ragging at people about something then what would we come here for? And you need to be quick with the weighing. Being from Int'l Falls you only get two days of summer. (Big grin emoji inserted here)

[77cruiser]

Had a whole week last summer. Had snow on the ground till about the 1st of May though. -44 this morning.
But I am curious to see what it weight loaded up I was gonna do it last year but never got to it.

[rhagfo]

I've heard this on many forums and in comments made by people who don't reveal their sources or their credentials which would indicate that they may "actually know what they're saying".... I've NEVER seen a statement anywhere from a vehicle manufacturer or contained in any owner's manual or owner's information packet or in any sales brochure that indicates that there is even one pound of "unadvertised or undocumented GVW, GCWR or trailer weight capacity allowance".

If you have any reference material to substantiate that any GVW is "understated" and by "how much", please post the sources. I think we all would like to know how much "extra" we have that isn't on the GVW sticker...

Well just because I have been known to stir the pot from time to time, it seems that at the same trim level an F350 will have a higher payload than a F450. Ponder that for a moment. :ermm:

Both the F350 & F450 have a max GVWR of 14,000#, the F450 is more stoutly built.

[sourdough]

I think what John is saying is....just what you seem to be saying; So the 350 is as stout, or more so, than the 450 - "it seems that at the same trim level an F350 will have a higher payload than a F450. Ponder that for a moment.". "The F350 and F450 have the same max gvwr of 14,000, the F450 is more stoutly built".

Those are your assertions; can you verify that with Ford documents....correspondence? To me, you seem to say that the 350 is as capable, or more so, than a 450 based on .....?? I would really like to see Ford's response to that. If it was the case...why would they even make the 2 weight levels...which is what they are?? With your confidence I'm sure they have provided detailed information to back up your claims??? Just sayin....

[rhagfo]

I think what John is saying is....just what you seem to be saying; So the 350 is as stout, or more so, than the 450 - "it seems that at the same trim level an F350 will have a higher payload than a F450. Ponder that for a moment.". "The F350 and F450 have the same max gvwr of 14,000, the F450 is more stoutly built".

Those are your assertions; can you verify that with Ford documents....correspondence? To me, you seem to say that the 350 is as capable, or more so, than a 450 based on .....?? I would really like to see Ford's response to that. If it was the case...why would they even make the 2 weight levels...which is what they are?? With your confidence I'm sure they have provided detailed information to back up your claims??? Just sayin....

Currently a fact the F350 and F450 max out at 14,000# GVWR. The F450 will have 10 lug 19.5 wheels and tires, larger heaver frame, hence less payload. Yet a truly more capable vehicle.

[rhagfo]

Well to add to this discussion, even I think the guy in post #79 of this thread is crazy. Yep Bagged it and tows a likely 21,000# 5er with a F250, states stock tires! The DRV list a dry weight of 19,000# and is 43' long, it is a triple axle unit.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f44/best-5th-wheel-for-f-250-diesel-370205-6.html

[travelin texans]

Well to add to this discussion, even I think the guy in post #79 of this thread is crazy. Yep Bagged it and tows a likely 21,000# 5er with a F250, states stock tires! The DRV list a dry weight of 19,000# and is 43' long, it is a triple axle unit.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f44/best-5th-wheel-for-f-250-diesel-370205-6.html

That idiot needs a crew of escort vehicles in front & behind him as he goes down the highway warning folks to clear a path. With that beast he needs the F450 at minimum, possibly a MDT.
Wonder if anyone has tried to tell him that huge Hellwig bar & airbags don't add one ounce of payload, but actually lost a 100+/- lbs by adding them. Not to mention it appears to be a short bed, so the hitch is slightly behind the rear axle which makes it even worse on that heavy of a 5er.

[shoooey]

Here is a post made by Wadcutter on NV.net on 1/21/19.

Please! Let's stick with what is actually the law and not what someone think the law says or wishes the law said just to support their unsupported argument. People who spout off that stuff have never read a law or most likely even know where to look for it even if they could understand what they read.
No LEO is going to give him a ticket for being over the manufacturer's GVWR. There's a very simple reason why. The manufacturer's GVWR is a rating by the manufacturer. It's not a legal weight limit. Manufacturers do not make the law. It is a non-enforceable rating used only by the manufacturer for their ratings. It's not a legal document and has no bearing on legal weights.
I didn't get my knowledge from listening to some fat guy in a flannel shirt sitting around a campfire. I taught truck laws and weight laws for a lot of years. I was recognized by the courts and FMCS as an expert in truck laws and weights. If a person is going to use a legal comment to support their personal opinion then post the statute. At least it might show the person knows what they're talking about.

I have to stop at the house and grab my boots for the bs in this post. Every time I have been stopped at a DOT stop, they always open the drivers door and check the tag. Then they check the registration. A vehicle can never exceed the manufacturers GVWR. Ever. An aftermarket company, certified to do so, can modify a vehicle to change the GVWR, and this is reported to the DMV.

The likelihood of been checked towing a camper recreational is basically nil, however, the delivery trucks, get checked and weighed all the time.

I tow a 44' gooseneck with a 30,000 gvwr, along with my f-350 dually, Ive scaled at 43,000. So I know a little about towing.

[OregonDuck]

I can appreciate how many of you may grow tired of thread after thread discussing GVWR. That said, I really appreciate them and want to thank all of you as I have learned a ton from them ("ton" pun intended :))

Because.... I am yet another that bought my TV specifically for my RV, only to learn after the fact that I was an uneducated buyer on all weights which must be considered when buying said TV (2013 Ford F250, 4x4 Diesel, Lariat). And although I could argue I was directly misinformed by both TV and RV dealerships on this "half-ton" tow-able 5th wheel, I don't blame them. I should have educated myself and done more research.

To the OP; Yes, I do keep very close watch on all measures now, hitting the scales often. Thus far, I am usually around 100-200 lbs over GVWR. I have my own spreadsheet now too, as many of you do. An exercise that I should have done prior to purchase and now serves as my daily reminder to find a way to purchase another truck.

Last weight fully loaded, fully gassed incl propane tanks topped off, I was:

over 140 lbs GVWR
under by 320 lbs front GAWR
under 840 lbs rear GAWR
under 6360 lbs GCVWR
under on tires by 1308 lbs front and 1118 lbs rear.


I squat 2" when hooked up.

I had a gent tell me recently that the only difference between my F250 and a F350 was the rear block height and potentially springs... that all other structural/mechanical elements were identical. "Get some bags and you've built a 350 out of your 250." I've been unable to confirm his comments are valid, and understand the sticker rules all anyhow. I am pissed as I could have just as easily purchased a 350 at the time. I'm now adding bags to at least ride level (adding 60 lbs to my issue), and broke out a new piggy bank to start saving for a one-ton.

[travelin texans]

I can appreciate how many of you may grow tired of thread after thread discussing GVWR. That said, I really appreciate them and want to thank all of you as I have learned a ton from them ("ton" pun intended :))

Because.... I am yet another that bought my TV specifically for my RV, only to learn after the fact that I was an uneducated buyer on all weights which must be considered when buying said TV (2013 Ford F250, 4x4 Diesel, Lariat). And although I could argue I was directly misinformed by both TV and RV dealerships on this "half-ton" tow-able 5th wheel, I don't blame them. I should have educated myself and done more research.

To the OP; Yes, I do keep very close watch on all measures now, hitting the scales often. Thus far, I am usually around 100-200 lbs over GVWR. I have my own spreadsheet now too, as many of you do. An exercise that I should have done prior to purchase and now serves as my daily reminder to find a way to purchase another truck.

Last weight fully loaded, fully gassed incl propane tanks topped off, I was:

over 140 lbs GVWR
under by 320 lbs front GAWR
under 840 lbs rear GAWR
under 6360 lbs GCVWR
under on tires by 1308 lbs front and 1118 lbs rear.


I squat 2" when hooked up.

I had a gent tell me recently that the only difference between my F250 and a F350 was the rear block height and potentially springs... that all other structural/mechanical elements were identical. "Get some bags and you've built a 350 out of your 250." I've been unable to confirm his comments are valid, and understand the sticker rules all anyhow. I am pissed as I could have just as easily purchased a 350 at the time. I'm now adding bags to at least ride level (adding 60 lbs to my issue), and broke out a new piggy bank to start saving for a one-ton.

Once you've added air bags you've made a F250 into a F250 with air bags. Which is what that guy that told you that is, an air bag.
Although if you read the link above, if you add air bags & a bigger sway bar your short bed F250 will haul a 20k+ 5er down the road all day long & you'll never know it's back there. If you believe that I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to unload.

[OregonDuck]

Which is what that guy that told you that is, an air bag.

LOL! He was an air bag

So this intrigues me:

An aftermarket company, certified to do so, can modify a vehicle to change the GVWR, and this is reported to the DMV.


I want to live within the yellow sticker. I've been looking at F350's, here just 6 months after purchasing my F250. But if the air bag fella holds any truth to the two vehicles being similar with the exception of an upgraded suspension, could I get this done and certified by someone; get my F250 a sticker that matches my rig? Anyone with any experience as to cost comparisons between the two? Silly to consider; just buy a new truck?

[CWtheMan]

Vehicle modification... Part 567.7 applies.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-1996-title49-vol5/xml/CFR-1996-title49-vol5-part567.xml

[sourdough]

LOL! He was an air bag

So this intrigues me:



I want to live within the yellow sticker. I've been looking at F350's, here just 6 months after purchasing my F250. But if the air bag fella holds any truth to the two vehicles being similar with the exception of an upgraded suspension, could I get this done and certified by someone; get my F250 a sticker that matches my rig? Anyone with any experience as to cost comparisons between the two? Silly to consider; just buy a new truck?


If you are upside down on the weights of your truck, adding airbags will do nothing to decrease that. You might replace all the springs, mounts, axles etc. and get some things done that would increase the carrying weight, to a minimal degree. Me? I would just buy a new truck and KNOW what I've got.
JMO/YMMV

[rhagfo]

I can appreciate how many of you may grow tired of thread after thread discussing GVWR. That said, I really appreciate them and want to thank all of you as I have learned a ton from them ("ton" pun intended :))

Because.... I am yet another that bought my TV specifically for my RV, only to learn after the fact that I was an uneducated buyer on all weights which must be considered when buying said TV (2013 Ford F250, 4x4 Diesel, Lariat). And although I could argue I was directly misinformed by both TV and RV dealerships on this "half-ton" tow-able 5th wheel, I don't blame them. I should have educated myself and done more research.

To the OP; Yes, I do keep very close watch on all measures now, hitting the scales often. Thus far, I am usually around 100-200 lbs over GVWR. I have my own spreadsheet now too, as many of you do. An exercise that I should have done prior to purchase and now serves as my daily reminder to find a way to purchase another truck.

Last weight fully loaded, fully gassed incl propane tanks topped off, I was:

over 140 lbs GVWR
under by 320 lbs front GAWR
under 840 lbs rear GAWR
under 6360 lbs GCVWR
under on tires by 1308 lbs front and 1118 lbs rear.


I squat 2" when hooked up.

I had a gent tell me recently that the only difference between my F250 and a F350 was the rear block height and potentially springs... that all other structural/mechanical elements were identical. "Get some bags and you've built a 350 out of your 250." I've been unable to confirm his comments are valid, and understand the sticker rules all anyhow. I am pissed as I could have just as easily purchased a 350 at the time. I'm now adding bags to at least ride level (adding 60 lbs to my issue), and broke out a new piggy bank to start saving for a one-ton.

Well the Gent forgot to mention two items;
1. TIRES! Not all 250/2500's come stock with tires the same capacity as a 350/3500 SRW. Still will not change the number on the VIN sticker.
2. Hungry lawyers! While depending on the DOT in your state over GVWR may or may not be a violation of a state law, BUT a hungry lawyer may be willing to take you to court for exceeding GVWR.

Number 2 was always in the back of my mind towing our Copper Canyon with the 2001 Ram at well over GVWR. At fault or not, there is always that possibility you will be sued.

[hdsr4me2]

I've towed my 11200 pound montana with 2005 Ram 2500. It is well within the towing capacity and pin weight for my truck IAW Dodges towing specs.

[mlarryeliz]

Hey OregonDuck, I feel your pain. I feel ashamed that I didn't totally understand the limits of my 2019 F250 Lariat Diesel. The combination of my F250 and my Sprinter 3531FWDEN appeared adequate "on paper" but in reality I ended up 1,200# OVER GVWR and right under rear GAWR. The GCVWR was ok and the tow weight was ok BUT GVWR was not good. Fortunately (on several accounts) I had a Ford dealer that didn't ding me very hard on the trade of my F250 Lariat and there just happened to be a 2019 F350 Lariat Ultimate DRW (with 2600 miles) that had just been traded in. [Dr. owned it and wanted a King Ranch rather than the Lariat]. All in all I traded for $7k difference and now I am well within my weight limits. I also rest easier knowing that I am nowhere near any weight limits. I can say that I learned an expensive lesson but now I fully understand towing weights and their potential limitations--and potential liabilities. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this dilemma.
Blessings!

[Fishsizzle]

Hey OregonDuck, I feel your pain. I feel ashamed that I didn't totally understand the limits of my 2019 F250 Lariat Diesel. The combination of my F250 and my Sprinter 3531FWDEN appeared adequate "on paper" but in reality I ended up 1,200# OVER GVWR and right under rear GAWR. The GCVWR was ok and the tow weight was ok BUT GVWR was not good. Fortunately (on several accounts) I had a Ford dealer that didn't ding me very hard on the trade of my F250 Lariat and there just happened to be a 2019 F350 Lariat Ultimate DRW (with 2600 miles) that had just been traded in. [Dr. owned it and wanted a King Ranch rather than the Lariat]. All in all I traded for $7k difference and now I am well within my weight limits. I also rest easier knowing that I am nowhere near any weight limits. I can say that I learned an expensive lesson but now I fully understand towing weights and their potential limitations--and potential liabilities. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in this dilemma.
Blessings!

There are many of us!