Gas issues heating

[brianshellhart]

I have a 2009 keystone cougar thats having problems with the gas when it comes to lighting my furnace. It is when the furnace goes to cut on it draws all the gas from the hookup at the propane tank to the indicator I watch the indicator go from green telling me I have propane to red indicating I'm out of propane while the furnace cycles but doesn't lite and once the furnace cycles the indicator goes back to green like I have propane. I have had to the stove and a burner lite the whole process and a full tank of propane but my furnace will not lite getting cold can anyone guide me in the right direction.

[JRTJH]

I would make a guess that you are in or near Oswego, IL ???

If you are, the current temperature is around 33F and last night it was in the low teens. Tonight is forecast to be the same.

I think the problem you have is that the temperature "IN THE TANK" is so cold that the propane can not readily convert from a liquid to a gas. This is confirmed by your statement, "when I turn on the furnace, I can watch the indicator change from green to red". As you increase the demand, the liquid propane changes to a gas and flows through the regulator where the pressure is reduced to slightly over 0.5 PSI.

To resolve your problem (or at least to confirm it) disconnect your propane tank, take it inside a well ventilated area and allow it to warm up. Then reconnect it to your regulator and try the furnace. If it lights and runs properly, you've identified your problem. If it doesn't, then post the results and we can move on to further troubleshooting steps.

The last thing you want to do at this time is start disassembling your RV furnace or the propane system looking for problems that likely don't exist.

Warm up your propane tank and try it again.... I think you'll be just fine.

[brianshellhart]

Ok will do soon as I try again if there are anymore issues ill be sure to post

[flybouy]

John has given sound advice. Let us know how it goes.

[brianshellhart]

Yeah that was the issue works fine now the tank was warmed up

[brianshellhart]

Thank you very much

[JRTJH]

Good to hear that news. Now, to resolve the issue (ie prevent it from happening tomorrow night) you might consider a warming blanket/pad for the propane tanks. The easiest is an adhesive heating blanket applied to the BOTTOM of the propane tank rack. DO NOT APPLY to the top of the propane tank rack because the rings on the bottom of the tanks will damage/cut the pad.

You can then plug that pad into the 15 amp outlet on the campground power pole or even use the outside outlet on your RV (if you have sufficient amperage left over from what you're running inside the camper)....

This pad is equivalent of two 75 watt light bulbs and should provide enough heat to keep the propane warm while not using "too much" electricity from an already "too small" 30 amp source.

Here is one such pad you might consider: https://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_day0_hl_263_1/140-2867041-1209825?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000I8TQD6&pd_rd_r=5e3a31a5-19c3-11e9-a1d6-d7c18bc79752&pd_rd_w=n4uUJ&pd_rd_wg=TrFdV&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=MS28WSK3MZJSPNFMPQ1T&psc=1&refRID=MS28WSK3MZJSPNFMPQ1T

[cmlong]

You might want to check out this site:

http://www.tailgatingideas.com/myth-busting-propane-winter-tailgating

[kjohn]

You might want to check out this site:

http://www.tailgatingideas.com/myth-busting-propane-winter-tailgating




Hmmm. The fellow with 25 years experience with propane has some good advice. Thanks for posting the site address. :)

[JRTJH]

There is some good advice and insight on that link, but there's also some significant missing information. First, the design of our RV propane tanks is vertical, so the surface area at the top of the liquid propane is limited to the small "circular area". If you look at most motorhome propane tanks and ALL home style tanks, they either are horizontal or "ball" shaped. That increases the surface area of the liquid propane and allow for more "vaporization" to gas from the liquid. Essentially, that allows for more gas to flow to the regulator at lower temperatures. Our RV tanks don't have that "luxury" and few tanks can provide the propane volume to maintain a 35K BTU furnace let alone the addition of the water heater's 10K BTU, the three 5K stovetop burners and the small amount used by the refrigerator. On a average ambient temperature day, the regulator can "keep up" with the demand of all the systems, cut that in half at 30F and reduce it even more at 15F and you can get the idea that your furnace simply won't stay lit....

If you don't believe it, try it sometime.

[Frank G]

I had similar regulator issues and installed a Marsh Excel MERG 253H regulator. All issues solved, no tank heaters required. The 253 H is a high volume regulator that will flow enough propane without tripping the regulator. Be sure to buy the mounting bracket with the regulator.

[Jgraham14813]

I literally just went through this same problem in ny temp was in teens constantly soon as tank was warm no issues at all

[vampress_me]

First, the design of our RV propane tanks is vertical, so the surface area at the top of the liquid propane is limited to the small "circular area". If you look at most motorhome propane tanks and ALL home style tanks, they either are horizontal or "ball" shaped. That increases the surface area of the liquid propane and allow for more "vaporization" to gas from the liquid. Essentially, that allows for more gas to flow to the regulator at lower temperatures.

Thank you, John! I’ve been trying to figure out how most houses out in the country have no problem heating their homes with propane all winter, and yet campers were being affected. My own brain and the great google were failing me...

[ptooti]

Good to hear that news. Now, to resolve the issue (ie prevent it from happening tomorrow night) you might consider a warming blanket/pad for the propane tanks. The easiest is an adhesive heating blanket applied to the BOTTOM of the propane tank rack. DO NOT APPLY to the top of the propane tank rack because the rings on the bottom of the tanks will damage/cut the pad.



You can then plug that pad into the 15 amp outlet on the campground power pole or even use the outside outlet on your RV (if you have sufficient amperage left over from what you're running inside the camper)....



This pad is equivalent of two 75 watt light bulbs and should provide enough heat to keep the propane warm while not using "too much" electricity from an already "too small" 30 amp source.



Here is one such pad you might consider: https://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_day0_hl_263_1/140-2867041-1209825?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000I8TQD6&pd_rd_r=5e3a31a5-19c3-11e9-a1d6-d7c18bc79752&pd_rd_w=n4uUJ&pd_rd_wg=TrFdV&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=MS28WSK3MZJSPNFMPQ1T&psc=1&refRID=MS28WSK3MZJSPNFMPQ1T



I would be careful with that type of heater pad we have one on our Diahatsu mini truck oil pan and warned against leaving it plugged in too long as it could boil the oil in the pan we live in Canada and only plug the heater on cold days -5 f for a max of 1 hour. Just sharing for safety reasons

[Terryj]

are using your travel trailer at will not be a problem with the propane and or tank. [Maybe the valve or coupler, but not the tank.] I use our propane grill with a single 20 # tank outside down to -10f. My grill has 60,000 btu of burner and I use them all to get up to temp. After -10 it is me that does not work outside, grill is still ok.

I would be suspicious of a regulator issue and or a coupler or valve issue.

The pressure in the tank drops with temp, that is normal. 80 f will be about 125 psi, 30f will be about 50 psi, 0f will be about 25 psi
A restricted line/ regulator/valve may not flow enough gas at a lower pressure, causing issues

[Frank G]

Propane boils at -44deg F. any tank temperatures above that and you will get flow. I've seen -20deg F at our cabin and the propane heater still worked.

[Andymil]

I was also thinking that the tank will get colder as the propane vaporizes.

[sourdough]

Well, all I know is that I have personally experienced frozen (non flowing) rv propane tanks. Not in -40 or -20 but above zero. I was a newbie back then (1985), went to the RV office (KOA), told them the problem and he knew exactly what it was. Bought some heater tapes and problem solved from then on in cold weather. Not the regulator or coupler - just needed a heater tape.

[fjr vfr]

I think both views are right to some extent. The regulators on most trailers do not have a very high flow and at lower temps have trouble flowing enough gas. Heating the tank increases the pressure and overcomes the problem.
I like the idea Frank G had of replacing the regulator to one with a higher flow. Do it once and not worry about it again.

[ddibon]

If you have two propane tanks there will be a valve permitting you to run "balanced"- drawing from both tanks (which will balance to each other). The switch in one direction runs off one tank, in the other direction it runs off the other tank. In cold weather run off your warmest tank. Of course, full tanks are more efficient. As mentioned by another poster, consider bringing your tank into a warm area for several hours and then use it.

[Rgmyers]

Maybe its Butane in the tank. Some Arizona facilities typically refill LP tanks with "Butane" instead of "Propane" to prevent over pressuring the tanks caused by high outdoor temperatures in the summer. The downside is around 32 deg. F. Butane tank pressure is around 0 psi.

[travelin texans]

Maybe its Butane in the tank. Some Arizona facilities typically refill LP tanks with "Butane" instead of "Propane" to prevent over pressuring the tanks caused by high outdoor temperatures in the summer. The downside is around 32 deg. F. Butane tank pressure is around 0 psi.

Never heard of that! If they do they must inform the consumer that they are doing so. They are 2 different products with different characteristics.

[Mainer]

I think both views are right to some extent. The regulators on most trailers do not have a very high flow and at lower temps have trouble flowing enough gas. Heating the tank increases the pressure and overcomes the problem.
I like the idea Frank G had of replacing the regulator to one with a higher flow. Do it once and not worry about it again.

Pressure drop through a regulator cools the regulator (think refrigerators) and can (and will) ice up if there is any water in the propane. Does not take much with a small regulator. Had that problem in the 30's, regulator had iced up on the outside which insulated it so inside got even colder. Once I got the ice off the regulator and warm it went the rest of the night. The "on-line" tank was getting low which may have contributed to the problem.