Landing gear problems

[brianshellhart]

I have a 2009 31' keystone cougar fifth wheel recently the original plastic gear box broke so i replaced it. I went to lift it to put it on the back end of my truck and kept blowing fuses. All jacks were up everything was ready to go. So I figured I might have put the motor under stress before the gearbox went I ordered a new motor. Got the new motor and when I go to lift all i get is a rat a tat tat. I can engage the motor and manually lift it with ease but the motor wont lift by itself it will go down just fine but won't lift. I called the dealership I got the rv from and the motor thru and they ordered another motor picked up the new motor and everything is the same so can I get some advise as to where to look next.

[CWtheMan]

It may have one of those 30A resetting circuit breakers that's on the final stage of wear-out.

On my older model Everest it's in the battery compartment. The Everest also has one in the slide system.

[KeithInUpstateNY]

May be an obvious question, but is the battery fully charged? It takes a lot of power to lift the tongue, but not too lower it.

[brianshellhart]

New Battery starting to wonder if the gearing in the actual feet iss going bad kind of looks like a flywheel inside the landing gear wondering if the teeth are any good and the new motor doesn't trip the 30A fuse just rat a tat tat almost like it somegow is in a bind

[CWtheMan]

Our long time traveling companions have a Montana. They had an intermittent landing gear switch replaced under warranty. Some time later when the problem resurfaced they had an after market switch installed. I don't recall them having any problems with the better manufactured, after market switch.

[AbHDToyHauler]

As stated above could be pitted contacts in switch. Poor contact so motor is stalling

[brianshellhart]

Landing gear is seized on left side, motor side goes up and down other side won't I broke the bolt on the cross bar when manually lifting the rig on the left side so now the question is what now.

[JRTJH]

It sounds like you replaced the gear set on the motor drive side and it was slow with the new motor, changed out the motor and it's still slow? Then you say you sheared the pin and the follower leg is seized and won't raise/lower. There is a "follower leg gear set and it sounds like that gear set has a broken gear. You can buy a replacement "plastic set" from any RV dealer. Some dealerships have a metal gear set which is much more durable. The metal gear sets are also available on EBay. At this time, with a "busted landing gear" you may not have the luxury of waiting for EBay to deliver parts. Any RV dealership with a parts department will have replacement follower leg gear sets available. Probable cost will be around $15.

[brianshellhart]

Never replaced gear set on motor side was motor mount I guess holds the motor and spins the gears on the drive side. Yes gears on following side wont go up or down is it gear or threaded shaft inside? Do I need to disacenble the leg from the rv to fix?

[JRTJH]

There are two different gear sets that you'll probably want to replace since you're going to be disassembling the landing gear.
The lead leg (motor side): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lead-Landing-Gear-Leg-Power-Repair-Kit-FIfth-Wheel-RV-Vehicle-Accessories-Part/163298096279?epid=3020207660&hash=item2605533497:g:6ecAAOSwAOxbt-aP:rk:37:pf:0
and the follower leg: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lippert-146060-Venture-Follow-Leg-Fifth-Wheel-Landing-Gear-Repair-Kit/323623314611?epid=2291550251&hash=item4b5973e4b3:g:xNQAAOSw-rxcI8Gv:rk:39:pf:0

These MAY NOT be the gearsets that fit your landing gear, you'll need to verify what brand and size landing gear is installed on your system and order the gear sets that work for your system.

You don't need to remove the landing gear to change out the gears, but you will need to either jack the front of the trailer to remove weight from the landing gear or hitch it to the truck so your fifth wheel hitch supports the trailer. Then you can remove the top cover and access the gear sets. They are relatively easy to change, but pay attention to how they come apart so you can reinstall them the same way.

[brianshellhart]

Ok got new gears installed them and still fifth wheel does not raise all i get is rat ta ta tat going on Any other ideas??

[JRTJH]

Is the shear pin in the "cross travel drive bar" intact? It's probably a grade 5 1/4" bolt located closer to the follow leg. Additionally, be sure the roll pin is driven into the gear drive at the motor input.

[brianshellhart]

All pins are good. I have been experimenting a little I used a jack and took the weight off the follow side then used the motor to lift the other everything works fine until it has to take its weight. I did this until the leg was fully extended. Then lowering the unit at first was a pain cause I extended the leg to far but after about a half inch everything took off like it is supposed to.goes down fine and all by itself! Its going up it rat a tat tats now I would think its a weight problem but I have not changed or added any weight to it since I loaded it originally and have been using it for a year never had a issue lifting it before. Could it be a bad gearbox?

[JRTJH]

It's possible you have a bad gearbox, but if you replaced all the gears and bushings, it should be OK. Have you made sure that your battery is fully charged and that the wiring from the battery to the motor (usually a pink wire) is connected properly with no loose or corroded connections? There is a 30 amp fuse "hidden" above the front cargo door in that pink wire. Hard to find and it may have corroded connections in the fuse holder.

[brianshellhart]

It is a brand new battery all wiring is good fuse is good. When all weight is on my Truck legs go up and down but with a click and its not in the gearing I just replaced that gearing operates the way it should. The click was also not present as when I installed the gearing before putting weight on the leg I ran it up and down a couple inches first. Then I had to resquare the legs so they were both the same distance from top of shaft to bottom. It just fails to lift, the shaft the motor is marrys to does not spin the motor makes a rattles never blows a fuse but rattles. These are all brand new parts gearbox motor fuses gearing battery I have already vested easy $500 dont understand why it won't lift on it's own period. So outside of battery and a power supply what are your thoughts

[brianshellhart]

Or could it be the motor do I need a 7000lb motor instead of 6000 with my dealership got for me and said was a match to the original on the unit witch stoped being produced

[JRTJH]

Some members with heavier fifth wheels (usually heavy pin weight toy haulers) with electric landing gear have installed a two motor system. Each landing gear leg has its own motor and both work on a "tied together switch" or can be activated individually (don't try to level the trailer using them, you can torque the frame and really cause problems.

You might consider installing that type of system. All you'd need is a "driven leg to replace the follower leg" and eliminate the drive rod between the two.

Without being there to actually see the system, my only thoughts are that the pink wire may not be heavy enough (is it getting warm when you activate the motor?) and can't deliver enough amperage to power the motor. If the wire isn't getting warm, then that's probably not an issue....

You might consider (as a test only) using a heavy gauge jumper cable to jumper from the battery to the landing gear motor to determine if the wiring and the switch is a problem. If, by jumpering directly from the battery to the motor input, the system works, it's the wiring. If the result is the same (motor lag/slow operation) then it's in the motor/landing gear.

[brianshellhart]

To install one motor per leg system do I need a driver leg? I would think I would just have to order drive gearing another gearbox and I can only assume another battery and a motor. For the past year I have picked up and dropped this rig probably 50 times never had a issue now we are talking reengineering a design that never had a problem with one motor

[JRTJH]

Are you sure you didn't pull forward or back up and bend an inner leg that's now binding causing your problem??? If it's not that, then:

Some follower legs can be converted some can't I have no idea which brand, model or style of landing gear you have, so I can't even begin to guess whether your follower leg can be converted to a drive leg and/or what parts you would need. Each type is different, some can, some can't. That's a question for your RV parts dealer or if you have the information on brand/model, the etrailer.com sight should have the parts you'll need if it's possible.

[brianshellhart]

No didn't hit anything at all very meticulous when it comes to loading transit and unloading of trailer like I said I have everything good the legs extend all the way up with help from a Jack goes down easy get a click every so often with no need of help. Mechanically to me it is sound. When I take the cross bar out and run just the drive leg on the motor everything is fine just won't lift both legs together

[chuckster57]

Late to the conversation- have you checked amp draw?

[brianshellhart]

This all started when my plastic gearbox that the motor broke. I ordered a new gear box. Then after the new gear box come in I put it on. Thee original motor was blowing fuses left and right when I went to lifting the 5th wheel. So I figured that i might have overstressed the motor when the plastic gearbox broke. I ordered a new motor. Put it on and all I got was a rat a tat tat when trying to raise the 5th wheel. Goes down fine just fine except every so often it rattle. So then I put in new gearing at the top of the legs. Put it all back to gether and the same thing i don't have a multi meter nor am I a electrian im a mechanic. So with everything working fine before the plastic gearbox broke now I get nothing raising the rig

[JRTJH]

That's why I recommended that you use a fully charged battery and a set of jumper cables to connect the landing gear motor directly to the battery (as a test only). The current setup isn't blowing fuses, so there's little (no) danger by using "big gauge jumper cables" to connect the motor for a test. That will tell you whether the motor is capable of raising the trailer with "direct power". If the motor works without issue to raise the trailer, then your problem is in the trailer wiring. If the motor still strains and won't lift the trailer, then either you have (as you indicated) a "too small motor) as a replacement (6000 lb motor as a replacement for the 7000 pound motor) or a problem with binding somewhere in the actual landing gear mechanism...

Without an ammeter to test load on the motor, I'd try a direct connection to see if the motor works with "full available power"... That'll give you an indication of whether it's a wiring or a landing gear issue.

[kksfish]

Might be worth making sure the screw drive inside the legs themselves are adequately greased and are not bent or fouled in some fashion. Remove the lower drop down section to access the screw.

[brianshellhart]

Ok so I'm pluged into shore power and with a new battery used jumper cables and still the same goes down but doesn't go up with direct power. Again this all started with a gearbox

[brianshellhart]

Ok so the original motor works with direct power goes up and down fine. So now the question is why do I keep blowing fuses when i use the switch??

[brianshellhart]

Ok so I decided to try the original motor and it works goes up and down under direct power. So now the question is why do I keep blowing fuses with the original motor

[brianshellhart]

I blow fuses going up or down

[JRTJH]

First, what size fuse is in the system? It may be too small for the application. DON'T CHANGE IT WITHOUT KNOWING THE WIRE SIZE IS BIG ENOUGH FOR INCREASED CURRENT DRAW !!!

[brianshellhart]

It is a 30 amp mini

[brianshellhart]

After closer inspection of the test I ran connecting the battery directly to the motor the shear bolt of the follower side got bent the hell up almost to failure

[JRTJH]

If the shear pin is bent that badly, something in the follower leg is binding and is probably causing your problem. You will need to jack and support your landing gear, remove that leg and rebuild it. My guess is that either the long threaded rod is bent or there is something binding it as it "threads itself through the stationary threaded thrust washer. It could be as simple as needing grease or it could be a broken thrust washer, bent threaded rod or something preventing the rod from turning within the thrust washer.

You may be able to access all of it from under the trailer if you remove the lower "smaller" leg. On some trailers you can get access, on some it's just too difficult to work from below and you'll need to remove the follower leg. That is also easy to do, and likely is your problem since you say the shear pin is bent....

[brianshellhart]

Ok well thanks for your help if i have any other questions I will give you a shout

[JRTJH]

Let us know what you find and how you repair the system. It will help others who may have similar problems. Good Luck

[brianshellhart]

Ok so i fudged up and need to replace both drive and follow legs I know they mount to the inside of my frame and are 29 1/2" outer tube. I'm looking online but most of the pictures show the little knotch in the metal that supports the leg to the frame is on the inside of the leg and the pictures dont show the outside to see if the same knotch is on the outside as well. Seeing as tho I have already vested a bunch of money already didnt know if there was a cheaper support leg that wasnt 280$

[brianshellhart]

Are Lippert and venture comparable together

[Local150]

Imo if it worked before you shouldn't have to reengineer the system by adding more motors etc., Keep looking and don't give up

[tkbender]

Landing gear is binding. Gear box on motor has clutch to protect motor. I have snapped the LG shaft. Make sure the worm gears are properly lubed.

[johnlewis]

The problem may be the thrust bearing at the top of the landing gear. We had the "rat a tat tat" problem, and it turned out to be a bad thrust bearing. When the bearing fails, the gearbox can't engage the teeth on the landing gear properly.

[Local150]

The problem may be the thrust bearing at the top of the landing gear. We had the "rat a tat tat" problem, and it turned out to be a bad thrust bearing. When the bearing fails, the gearbox can't engage the teeth on the landing gear properly.
Good point,, that is a possibility

[Crackerjack]

I have a 2009 31' keystone cougar fifth wheel recently the original plastic gear box broke so i replaced it. I went to lift it to put it on the back end of my truck and kept blowing fuses. All jacks were up everything was ready to go. So I figured I might have put the motor under stress before the gearbox went I ordered a new motor. Got the new motor and when I go to lift all i get is a rat a tat tat. I can engage the motor and manually lift it with ease but the motor wont lift by itself it will go down just fine but won't lift. I called the dealership I got the rv from and the motor thru and they ordered another motor picked up the new motor and everything is the same so can I get some advise as to where to look next.
I bought my 2009 Cougar brand new and had some of the same problems you seem to be having. First the 40amp fuses for the landing gear would blow every time I would raise or lower them. I cut the fuse holder out and installed a 40Amp circuit breaker, which took about thirty minutes, and it’s still working as we speak. As far as the click click click, the culprit is probably a CHEAP machine screw that goes through the shaft and the collar that turns with the motor. I turned the shaft until the holes lined up and drove the so-called machine screw out an put in a stainless one. I haven’t had a problem with either in 10years. Also, if you store it hooked up to power, you need to change out the cheap inverter for a three stage charger maintainer, to keep from blowing up your house battery.
Crackerjack