GM Recommends TopTier Diesel, but it's hard to find

[MarkEHansen]

I just purchased a new 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD with the Duramax Turbo Diesel engine (yay!) but in reading the Duramax Diesel Supplement, it says GM recommends TopTier diesel fuel, but in going to that web site, I can't find many stations near me which offer this.

It does say that I should use fuel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur, but how do I find which stations have satisfactory diesel fuel?

Can I assume that stations like Chevron, Texaco, Valero, Flying J, T/A, etc. will be good enough?

Is this just "GM being GM" and really any commercially-available diesel fuel will work?

Thanks for your input.

[Wing-in-it]

every station I go to with highway diesel is Ultra low sulfar and that should suffice.never heard of a “Top Tier Diesel”.

Wow and after further investigation I find this....

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/top-tier-diesel-standard-to-improve-operability-and-longevity-of-diesel-engines/

I guess GM is trying to put themselves in a bind....diesel is expensive enough and now with GM’s trademarked Top Tier fuel what were they thinking?

Should have made the Duramax to burn standard fuel instead of this idea.....

In my opinion it’s going to cost them customers in the long run.

[MarkEHansen]

https://www.toptiergas.com/toptier_diesel_fuel/

[notanlines]

Mark, not to worry. Not a soul I know with diesels would have any idea what "top tier diesel" would be. Stick with stations that sell a lot of diesel, not the little mom and pop joints.

[xrated]

I kind of went through the same thing in late 2010 when I bought my first ever Diesel truck....a 2011 F250 6.7 Ford Diesel. One of the things to know is that since about 2007, diesel fuel has been required to be Ultra Low Sulphur....which means 15 ppm or less sulphur, so that base should be covered at about any place that sells diesel fuel. Just be careful that you don't mistakenly fill up with "off Road" diesel, as that is prohibited for use in regular cars/trucks that require diesel. It is intended for tractors, heavy equipment and such and is usually reddish in color.

The second part of your question about getting top tier diesel is a little more difficult. To me, the brand is not as important as whether or not the place sells a lot of diesel fuel or whether they only sell it occasionally. The longer that fuel sits in their supply tanks, the more chance that it has condensation/water in it, so you want to try and purchase from somewhere that sells a lot of diesel fuel. Obviously places that sell to truckers goes through thousands and thousands of gallons of fuel. The mom and pop roadside convenience store that has one lone diesel pump and sometimes away from the rest of their pumps, may not move a lot of diesel fuel....and that increases your chance of getting fuel that will have water in it. I seldom frequent truck stops, but in my town there are plenty of gas stations/convenience marts that sell quite a lot of diesel and to be honest with you, I purposely added an aux. tank to the bed of the truck so that I could buy diesel where I wanted to buy it and not be forced into buying from somewhere that might not move a lot of fuel.

Personally, I also stay away from Bio-Diesel.....which is what most truck stops offer and you really don't have much choice. Bio-Diesel vs. dino diesel is a whole nother topic, and one I'll leave alone in this discussion.

So in summary, probably every station you go to will have ULSD fuel in their tanks, and try to stay away from the small stations that don't sell much diesel....and you will probably be more than OK. Check and drain your water separator if you suspect that you may have taken on some older diesel and change your filters according to the specified maint. schedule.....or sooner if you feel like you may have some "water" issues. Hope this helps

[MarkEHansen]

Yes, I feel better now that I noticed that the whole Top Tier Diesel thing didn't start until 2017 :)

Thanks all!

[roadglide]

Yes, I feel better now that I noticed that the whole Top Tier Diesel thing didn't start until 2017 :)

Thanks all!
The new tailgate will it fold in half for fifth wheel hook up ?

[chuckster57]

For the record there is NO difference in the fuel dyed red from regular fuel. It is dyed red because it’s supposed to be “off road” such as farm equipment and no highway tax is collected.

[MarkEHansen]

Fold in half? Can you please explain further?


The tailgate on my PU appears to be one solid piece which can be opened to a horizontal position. I don't see any way to open it to a half-open position.

[Eastham]

Chevy says the same thing for the gas engine for 2017 .Use top tier gas recommended.

[MarkEHansen]

True, but top tier gas stations are easy to find. Top Tier Diesel stations not so much :)

[JRTJH]

The "top tier fuels" sounds much like the Ford/BP marketing program back in 2008. When we bought our 2008 Escape, the owner's manual had a statement that read something like, "Ford and BP have joined our technologies to create a premium level fuel, especially blended to provide optimum performance in your new Ford. Available only at BP stations, this fuel will provide you with reliable service from your new Escape." On the inside of the fuel door was a sticker that read, "Ford recommends you use only BP fuel with a minimum octane rating of 87," and the green BP logo. Living in Louisiana and with the BP oil spill in the Gulf about that same time, I was "anti-BP" and that Escape ran just fine on "anything but BP"....

I'd suspect this GM Top Tier fuel is a similar "marketing strategy" with "GM's oil industry partners"...... :popcorn:

[travelin texans]

"Top tier" is the refining process used to produce gasolines/diesel, all commericial fuels will be "top tier".
As Chuckster stated "off road" diesel is the very same diesel used in you truck but with a red dye added, & the user doesn't pay road taxes on it, so that it can be easily recognized by officials testing that it's only being used in construction/farm equipment. It WILL NOT do any damage to your truck if by accident you fill up with it, but will take several fillups afterwards to clear the red dye from your tank.
Just FYI, just because you fillup at say BP, or any other brand, that doesn't mean you are filling up with only fuels refined by BP. They are getting fuels from whomever/wherever has the best price today. I retired from Valero & from our fuel terminals we supplied fuels to every station within a 100 miles of that terminal. There were 2 other terminals next to ours, Chevron & Fina, & depending on which had the best price today is where the trucks were lined up. At our terminal the Valero stations had priority, but the same fuels went to about any brand of station you could name.

[ChuckS]

I own 2007 Duramax. Run Shell, Chevron , ConocoPhillips , Texaco.

I do also add an additive to my fuel tank at fill up to give a bit more lubricosity to the diesel fuel for the CP3 fuel pump.

[mace14638]

The Costco near us (Riverton, UT) sells “Top Tier” fuels. The logo is on the pump. My advice with any diesel fuel is use a quality fuel additive every time you fill up. I learned this lesson the hard $$$$ way.

[xrated]

For the record there is NO difference in the fuel dyed red from regular fuel. It is dyed red because it’s supposed to be “off road” such as farm equipment and no highway tax is collected.

Yea, I just meant that if you are caught with it in a vehicle that is not an off road type vehicle, there are usually fines/etc. involved

[77cruiser]

I've ran across a few places that sold a premium diesel fuel, don't know if that's the same as top tier.

[JRTJH]

I've ran across a few places that sold a premium diesel fuel, don't know if that's the same as top tier.

I haven't seen a "premium" named diesel in many years. Back when I was a kid (we won't go into how long ago that was), Premium diesel was the same as today's #1 diesel. Today's diesel is usually listed as either #1 or #2 diesel. As I understand it (I'm far from a refinery expert) #1 diesel is essentially the same as kerosene and is a bit thinner than #2 diesel. Number 1 is often available in very cold areas as it is "thinner" and doesn't gel as easily. It also does not provide the fuel mileage like #2 diesel, so if you fill up with #1, expect your MPG to go down a bit. How much? Depends on how hard you're working the engine. You probably won't see as much decrease if you're driving solo as you would if using #1 when towing.

The engine (at least most diesel engines) are happy with either #1 or #2 but #2 is the most available and usually what you'll see at most truck stops/larger refueling stations.

[gearhead]

"Top tier" is the refining process used to produce gasolines/diesel, all commericial fuels will be "top tier".
As Chuckster stated "off road" diesel is the very same diesel used in you truck but with a red dye added, & the user doesn't pay road taxes on it, so that it can be easily recognized by officials testing that it's only being used in construction/farm equipment. It WILL NOT do any damage to your truck if by accident you fill up with it, but will take several fillups afterwards to clear the red dye from your tank.
Just FYI, just because you fillup at say BP, or any other brand, that doesn't mean you are filling up with only fuels refined by BP. They are getting fuels from whomever/wherever has the best price today. I retired from Valero & from our fuel terminals we supplied fuels to every station within a 100 miles of that terminal. There were 2 other terminals next to ours, Chevron & Fina, & depending on which had the best price today is where the trucks were lined up. At our terminal the Valero stations had priority, but the same fuels went to about any brand of station you could name.
Gasoline and diesel are commodities. All 87 octane gasoline should meet all government & EPA requirements. EPA requires a minimum level of additives. Each oil company has their own witches brew of additives, Techron, etc. The top tier have a level of additives above the EPA minimum. I think Chevron and Phillips were some of the early brands that met top tier. I'm just guessing but probably most name brand gasolines will be top tier.
Yes it's true that your WalMart gas might be made by Exxon. Whether or not it has all of Exxon's additive package is doubtful. I worked in Shell's Deer Park TX Refinery and Chemical plant for 35 years but never stepped foot in the distribution terminal. My "understanding" is that the additives are added at the terminal depending on who the fuel truck is delivering to.

Diesel? Never heard of top tier diesel until now. I would just use a name brand where a lot of it is pumped. I have seen some diesel pumps that say "Not a Shell Product", so who knows.

[Badbart56]

I'm sure that most of you who drive diesel's have noticed that the price has not dropped at the rate that gasoline has dropped. I have seen an article that "explains" how the oil companies have developed new "strategies" to produce more gasoline from a barrel of oil and lower the amount of by-products.....also, keep in mind that the USA diesel quality is NOT at the high standards that diesel fuel in Europe is. This has been addressed many times in reference to an increase in fuel pump failures of our newer diesel trucks. Bosch holds that our fuel quality is to blame. But for gas to drop over .70 a gallon and diesel to only drop about .30 cents.....what are your thoughts?

[Pull Toy]

Top Tier? Can you say "GIMMMICK" boys and girls?

+1 for "red diesel" being the exact same quality fuel as "Hi-way". It is dyed red to indicate that no road tax was collected. You don't even want to get caught with it in your tank if they "stick" your tank during a traffic stop. They WILL sideline you and fine you big time ($$$$)! Generally here in CT, if a station carries it at all, it's in a separate WELL MARKED tank.

[gearhead]

I'm sure that most of you who drive diesel's have noticed that the price has not dropped at the rate that gasoline has dropped. I have seen an article that "explains" how the oil companies have developed new "strategies" to produce more gasoline from a barrel of oil and lower the amount of by-products.....also, keep in mind that the USA diesel quality is NOT at the high standards that diesel fuel in Europe is. This has been addressed many times in reference to an increase in fuel pump failures of our newer diesel trucks. Bosch holds that our fuel quality is to blame. But for gas to drop over .70 a gallon and diesel to only drop about .30 cents.....what are your thoughts?
Diesel is in very high demand as an international export. It's that old capitalistic bug a boo....demand and supply.
Refineries can "tweak" the process a little bit, but most significant changes require huge expenditures in hardware that takes a considerable time to design and build.
The biggest issue right now seems to be the huge and rapid supply of very light fracked shale oil. Most Gulf Coast refineries were designed to run on heavy crude. Shale oil is anything but. A few east coast refineries were set up to run Arabian light sweet crude, but not very many.
I know our Shell Deer Park plant was modified many years ago to run very heavy Mexican Mayan mud crude. Now we are drowning in light shale oil and Mexico can't keep up their crude production. Mexico has also let their refineries fall into disrepair and they can only run a small percentage of their nameplate capacity.
Making fuel ain't easy.
https://rbnenergy.com/runnin-down-a-dream-part-3-mexicos-plan-to-revive-their-crude-oil-refining-sector

[travelin texans]

As stated "supply & demand". Consider the gallons of diesel used by trucking industry per day plus the amount of diesel one railroad locomotive can hold & burn through in a trip as compared to gasoline use per vehicle.

[Badbart56]

Yeah, and consider how many light duty diesel trucks are on the road also. Don't think this was a coincidence.....

[roadglide]

Fold in half? Can you please explain further?


The tailgate on my PU appears to be one solid piece which can be opened to a horizontal position. I don't see any way to open it to a half-open position.

I don't know to past a link. Its called multi pro tailgate that folds in the middle to make a step it does other cool stuff and I though it was standard for 2019 denial.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I don't know to past a link. Its called multi pro tailgate that folds in the middle to make a step it does other cool stuff and I though it was standard for 2019 denial.

That is only for the new 1500. The HDs wont get a new design until 2020 model year

[Ddubya]

It appears to me that a few companies have a "Top Tier" additive that have been approved. This will most likely be added to diesel by the distributors at the request of the retailers as is done with gasoline. In the future we will most likely see companies that are now selling "Top Tier" gasoline having the same for diesel.
I am very cautious about the fuel I use and stay away from discount fuel and bio products.

[travelin texans]

For you to get bad enough fuel to harm your truck it would have to be a really shady retailer as the fuel quality & pump operation are both tested regularly by state regulators.

[Badbart56]

For you to get bad enough fuel to harm your truck it would have to be a really shady retailer as the fuel quality & pump operation are both tested regularly by state regulators.

Only once per year here. Unless they get a complaint from a consumer.

[Ddubya]

I am more concerned about the cumulative effects of using lower quality or B20 bio fuel than the occasional use of it. "Top Tier" gasoline has additives to improve performance and clean the engine so I will pay a few cents more for it just to be safe.

[bobbecky]

A couple of advantages of B20 diesel is that it cleans the fuel system and it also has a higher lubricating quality that helps the fuel pumps and injectors. I have never noticed any reduction of power or mileage when I have used B20. Many older diesel engines that were not rated for B20 will barely run with it, and maybe that's why some think B20 is of poorer quality than pure dino diesel. Most states have minimum standards for cetane ratings and other quality standards, just like with gasoline. Diesel #1 has a lower paraffin content which is what gels up in diesel when it gets too cold.

[MarkEHansen]

So what is the "Arctic Grade" or "Severe Winter Grade" diesel mentioned in my owner's manual? It says in really cold conditions (below 0 degrees F), I can use this "arctic" grade, but it will reduce performance.

[JRTJH]

Thinking back to 1972 and the "leaded/unleaded" gas discussions/arguments that we had, I see much of the same with the "bio/dino" diesel and "top tier/normal tier" discussions/arguments that we're currently having.

Remember when the "5MPH front bumpers" first came out and everyone thought that "big ugly lip" was a reason to never buy another new vehicle.....

I wonder what discussions/arguments we'll be having in 40 years? Nuclear vs solar vs some "yet to be imagined" fuel source ????

I don't think you can buy diesel around here without "some" bio-diesel additive" and in some states, it's mandatory, so depending on where you live, bio vs dino and top tier vs standard are really nothing more than buying the same thing at the same station because nothing else is even available. So, the question becomes: Do you drive to the next city to fill up with "top tier" or do you go to the local truck stop and buy "normal diesel"???

I agree, don't buy "watered down diesel from a station with a known bad reputation" but at the same time, at least for me, it's not worth the effort to drive 50 miles to fill up with something that may or may not be any better than what I can buy at the local Marathon station..... YMMV

[retiredusps69]

Ok Diesel dyed red is for off road, No tax number. 1 Fuel oil is kero. Or use to be.Number 2 diesel is the same as home heating oil. In the late 1980 alot of truck stops were selling # 2 home heating oil and beating the tax. Thus the red dye was put in to stop beating the tax.Detroit Diesels used to love Kero/ #1 diesel. You could get a nice blue flame come out both stacks.Detroit actualy said to burn #1 diesel.Nj Transit use to use only # 1 fuel. I delivered enough of Diesel and Gasoline to fill a Stadium.

[Ken / Claudia]

My first diesel pu was a 1988 ford f350, since a 1996 and 2001 all ford.
I have never seen "Top Tier" diesel on any pump. Maybe I have missed it but, I check for Bio or B20 and if it is #1 or #2. The newest fed requirement for the ultra low sulfur diesel road fuel has dropped my 2001 truck mpg down about 2 mpg, same as the B20. Remember my truck engine was never made for this new stuff. Your experience with B20 may not make any different.
Mark the most important thing about any fuel you may use is water in the fuel. Check to see if you have a manual way to dump that out. My fords do and it is easy. They have a warning light that comes on when there is water in the fuel bowl and all you do is open the hood and flip a lever. The fuel bowl dumps out the soiled fuel.
A buddy did not dump his bad fuel and continued driving across Oregon. It cost him several thousand in the need for new fuel injectors. That was his words.
I had the water in fuel light come on once in the 96. I pulled over and fixed it. That was within a few miles of the last fill up. It never came back on again and no engine problems occurred.

[travelin texans]

I've had 2 GMC diesels, an '05 & '13 for a total of 300k+ miles so far & have never had the "water in fuel" warning. I do add an additive to displace the water plus contains a bacteriacide about every 3rd or 4th fill up. I've bought fuel from about every type of place that's available all across the country, from mom/pop convenience stores & truck stops to all the major stations & truck stops & have never ever had any fuel issues.
By accident once I filled up with off road diesel, went in to tell the gal behind the counter so she could charge me the tax, the old guy behind me said "you'll burn that sum bitch up with that in there, it's way too hot for that motor" to which I said "yea ok!", confused the poor gal terribly, I signed a form saying I got it by accident & left, no problem.

[MarkEHansen]

Ken,


Yes, we have a manual way to dump the water separated from the fuel, but it seems it's harder to get at than yours. We have to go under the truck. I haven't looked at it yet, so I don't know what's involved in dumping it. The Owner's manual is a little vague on the topic, so I was going to research more.


Thanks,

[Ken / Claudia]

It's one of those just in case, it may save the truck. Maybe someone can help explain your truck on how to do it. Now get out there and put some miles on that truck!

[MarkEHansen]

Oh, I think I just need to get under there and try it :) Just haven't had time yet.


I did take out our trailer for its first pull using this new truck. It was great! Much better than pulling it behind our last vehicle (GMC Yukon Denali half-ton).

[NevadaRich]

Mark,
Since you asked the question, I have been looking, LOL I found you top tier at Costco in Roseville....

[SkiSmuggs]

I've ran across a few places that sold a premium diesel fuel, don't know if that's the same as top tier.

No, but it may be closer to it than standard ULSD. Top Tier also includes filtering to prevent water in the fuel. Since Top Tier diesel is just getting started, it is rare, so a great additive like Opti-Lube (top rated) improves cetane, lubricity, water separation, fuel system cleaning. Be aware that some additives actually reduce lubricity, so just because it is on the shelf and everybody uses it, doesn't mean it is good for your truck.

[Fishsizzle]

Yes, follow a monthly schedule of dumping the water separator, and run a good additive to deal with any water that maybe in fuel. Buy from stations that go through lots of diesel, so sediment, water etc tend to be a non-issue.

On 2 occasions, I have pulled into shell stations because they advertised diesel. I pulled in, only to see it was Bio. Right on the pump it says "this is not a shell product" Who know where it's from? I can't put that in my truck.

When I see Diesel at a cheap price, I know it's Bio. I steer clear (no pun). I haven't put in the time to research it enough. I don't know the "standards" etc. To me its like generic drugs, there's just enough difference to work, but it doesn't always work.

I just have too much invested in the truck or future trucks not to give it the best care I can, which includes fuel.

Just random thoughts.

[tundrwd]

I just purchased a new 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD with the Duramax Turbo Diesel engine (yay!) but in reading the Duramax Diesel Supplement, it says GM recommends TopTier diesel fuel, but in going to that web site, I can't find many stations near me which offer this.

It does say that I should use fuel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur, but how do I find which stations have satisfactory diesel fuel?

Can I assume that stations like Chevron, Texaco, Valero, Flying J, T/A, etc. will be good enough?

Is this just "GM being GM" and really any commercially-available diesel fuel will work?

Thanks for your input.

Some have said that "Top Tier" is a brand - which is not true. It's a "certification" of sorts, and only some companies, and even at that - only some locations have "Top Tier" fuel or diesel.

In my area - the Costco has Top Tier diesel, and very little else. So - you have to check places like that (on the company's website), to see what location(s) have Top Tier gas/diesel.

In lieu of that - go with a "brand name". Yeah - it'll cost you more, but will probably save you in the long run. Locally, we have a lot of convenience stores named "Quik Trip". They have Top Tier gas - but DON'T have Top Tier diesel. I filled up my '17 2500HD Duramax a bit over a year ago at a local one, and two days later my truck was dead. The diesel had gelled. A trip just before where temps went into single digits (7-9F) - no problem. But, one fill up at a place like Quik Trip, and 2 days later, and temps that were in the 10-15F range - gelled diesel. Since it was a warm winter, it was STRONGLY rumored that the fuel companies delayed putting in the winterization chemicals. That, on top of the fact that those places don't get all of the diesel out of their tanks on a regular basis - so you have no idea how much untreated diesel was in the tank when they filled up - winterized or not.

So, despite the fact that the manual says "no additives" (oh, they'll let you use GM's additive...), you really need some anti-gel additive in the diesel if the temp in your location regularly gets down below freezing or so.

What you want to do is to fill up at places that really go THROUGH the diesel. That means its pretty fresh, and when the formulation changes, you'll get the changes in a reasonable timeframe. You might look for some "area" companies that have those unattended stations (some may require membership - but most don't). They seem very busy, and the diesel I've gotten through them (mostly during winter), seems just fine to use. Semis regularly fill up at those places too.

As far as I know - anyone selling diesel along the road is selling 15ppm sulfer diesel. It's a requirement. You'll see at truck stops too. At this point, the only other "likely" place you'll get diesel that won't work would be filling up diesel from your farm's tank, and you get agricultural/tractor diesel. So, anyplace you fill up will have 15ppm sulfer diesel. Just check the tank, they're all labeled that I've seen. No label - go down the road. Your Duramax WILL choke on the improper diesel (<sarcasm on> thank you very much computerization </sarcasm off>).

Oh - and be careful of the DEF fluid you buy too. If it's too old, you may get the dreaded bad DEF fluid warning, and you've got about 50 miles to get it fixed before the vehicle shuts down, and that's with reduced engine output. I've used Blue DEF, and the Walmart "Supertech" DEF fluid. I always try to go to a Walmart that's in a "diesel" area, so the stock gets turned over. Areas around farming/ranching, etc.

I'd suggest going to www.duramaxforum.com - do some reading, and ask your questions there. There are a LOT of highly competent diesel techs on that forum, along with lots of info and results of studies/tests (like diesel additives) to view. I've gleaned a lot of info for my truck from there.

Now - if I could just figure out how to get ALL the old oil out of the engine on engine changes on that puppy...

[allenclme]

Chevron and Costco diesel are labeled "top tier" at the pump. Been using it in my Duramax (2016) for 38000 miles with no problems.

[tundrwd]

Chevron and Costco diesel are labeled "top tier" at the pump. Been using it in my Duramax (2016) for 38000 miles with no problems.

Be aware - not ALL Costco's have Top Tier. Check their website https://www.costco.com/gasoline-diesel.html. I don't fill up at Chevrons, but they might not all be Top Tier either.

And - just because a place has Top Tier gas DOES NOT mean they have Top Tier diesel.

[tundrwd]

I think - generally speaking - the trick is using a "better" quality diesel, and at a place that really goes through it so you get fresh diesel. Good fuel stations - truck stops. Also - don't let it sit in your tank a long time. KEEP YOUR TANK FULL WHEN ITS SITTING FOR PERIODS OF TIME!!! Why do aircraft keep their fuel tanks full when sitting? Because they get condensation inside the tank if they aren't full, and water/fuel don't mix. You don't want your diesel to get a slug of water in it. Fuel floats on top of water, and your fuel pump is at the bottom of the tank.

While my truck is mainly for towing my trailer, I still go out once or twice a week, every week, and drive 30-40 miles minimum. Also put it 4H/4L occasionally just to keep the lubrication moving around...

[SkiSmuggs]

Diesel fuel is not always made by the brand that sells it, nor is gasoline. I talked to a tanker driver who left an Irving station and went to a Mobil station. He said Irving refines it and supplies it as Mobil has no refining plants in New England. He said there are no additive added at either location, it is just what he delivers. Gas is similar for the base product, but each station has the brand name additive package.
Top Tier gasoline has a real advantage over non-TT as in has a lot more detergents, etc. Tests have shown better mileage and cleaner engine parts and may be worth any small extra cost in both fuel and maintenance savings according to independent studies.
It is the engine manufacturers who asked for the Top Tier fuels for better performance, mileage and longevity.

[hankpage]

Ok Diesel dyed red is for off road, No tax number. 1 Fuel oil is kero. Or use to be.Number 2 diesel is the same as home heating oil. In the late 1980 alot of truck stops were selling # 2 home heating oil and beating the tax. Thus the red dye was put in to stop beating the tax.Detroit Diesels used to love Kero/ #1 diesel. You could get a nice blue flame come out both stacks.Detroit actualy said to burn #1 diesel.Nj Transit use to use only # 1 fuel. I delivered enough of Diesel and Gasoline to fill a Stadium.

X2 On #1 and Detroit. My old 318 would smoke the tires empty and if I got into it too hard loaded it would spin the rims. :angel: Tried #1 in my '94 Cummins once and it warmed up much quicker in the morning but the cost wasn't worth the comfort.

[Mad Cow]

Well, I am cover a dozen states every year. I purchase over 21,000 gallons of diesel every year for my commercial needs. There is no such industry standard thing as "Top Tier" diesel. There are some outlets that will treat their diesel with something like Schaeffer's additive and call it "premium" diesel. Some station that says "top tier' at the pump, make sure it is a pump that is not also one that sells gas and diesel at the same pump.

And it is true, the diesel at the pump has nothing to do with the station selling it. All stations within a geographical area get the majority of their fuel from the fuel terminals in that area. Those fuel terminals will get their fuel thru the pipeline from a variety of refineries. A local station may specify any additives they want in the fuel they get, but that is about all they have control over. The sign on the station has nothing to do with who actually refined the fuel. I personally tanked fuel in the past. Lot's of misconceptions by the public.

I digress, a quick search found "top tier" diesel, but nothing about it that rally means much.

Increased Lubricity? Most diesel has than now since the majority of diesel being sold has biodiesel in it. A 2% blend of biodiesel raises lubricity to pre-ULSD levels. Better than anything off the shelf.

Better filtration? I know of no diesel fuel pumps that do not also have water and particulate filtration at the pump. They have for decades.

Irregardless, the number of outlets that are participating are extremely scarce. I view the top tier diesel thing just like the top tier gas thing. Pure marketing. None of my GM gasoline engines have gotten, knowingly, top tier gas and even my 2006 Cadillac is still in great shape and a keeper. The best thing in terms of diesel is what has been mentioned... buy at high volume outlets where the turnover of stored diesel is frequent.

[MarkEHansen]

Well, I am cover a dozen states every year. I purchase over 21,000 gallons of diesel every year for my commercial needs. There is no such industry standard thing as "Top Tier" diesel. There are some outlets that will treat their diesel with something like Schaeffer's additive and call it "premium" diesel.

And it is true, the diesel at the pump has nothing to do with the station selling it. All stations within a geographical area get the majority of their fuel from the fuel terminals in that area. Those fuel terminals will get their fuel thru the pipeline from a variety of refineries. A local station may specify any additives they want in the fuel they get, but that is about all they have control over. The sign on the station has nothing to do with who actually refined the fuel. I personally tanked fuel in the past. Lot's of misconceptions by the public.


https://www.toptiergas.com/toptier_diesel_fuel/

[travelin texans]

Well, I am cover a dozen states every year. I purchase over 21,000 gallons of diesel every year for my commercial needs. There is no such industry standard thing as "Top Tier" diesel. There are some outlets that will treat their diesel with something like Schaeffer's additive and call it "premium" diesel.

And it is true, the diesel at the pump has nothing to do with the station selling it. All stations within a geographical area get the majority of their fuel from the fuel terminals in that area. Those fuel terminals will get their fuel thru the pipeline from a variety of refineries. A local station may specify any additives they want in the fuel they get, but that is about all they have control over. The sign on the station has nothing to do with who actually refined the fuel. I personally tanked fuel in the past. Lot's of misconceptions by the public.

Plus ALL those refineries & terminals have VERY strict requirements for ALL their fuels, but once it's unloaded at at station they have no control over what happens, unfortunately the refiner will still be to blame if someone gets bad fuel.
As I've said I've had 2 diesel GMC trucks with over 300k miles between them & have never had to open the fuel filter water drain. If I did get the "water in fuel" warning I wouldn't drain it I'd replace the filter. The fuel filter on mine has a % number to change interval, just like the oil, to which I go by to change when it's down to about 10%, same as oil changes, so far no issue with either.

[JRTJH]

Let's compare the "quality" of diesel at four stations:

First, Top Tier diesel at a "mom and pop" station that's been in the tank since July (they don't sell much diesel)

Second, ULS diesel (not bio fuel) that's at the station across the street. It's been in the tank since September (they sell more than mom and pop, but not by a lot)

Third, Top Tier diesel at another station that does sell more diesel, but there's a diesel delivery truck filling the tank as you drive up. (adding fuel to the existing fuel stirs up the sediment in the station's storage tanks)

Fourth, 10% bio-diesel at a reputable truck stop that's been in the tank since 2 days ago, all the tank sediment has settled to the bottom of the tank, the fuel is fresh and there's no question of water content in their fuel.

Which would you choose? Why ??

The point I'm making is that there's no "constant" in where to select fuel and just because "labeling" is present, that doesn't mean fuel at that station is "better/best" of the available selections.... YMMV

[CaptnJohn]

Ford manual and badge states B20 is OK. It is cheaper as we subsidize the farmers for the crops that make the 'bio'. I try to avoid it when possible, therefore avoid Walmart/Murphy. Bio is supposed to have the pump labeled but guessing many or most do not. When towing I add Ford additive most of the time.

[larryflew]

list is old so there may be more by now. Top Tier retailers include 76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, Beacon, BP, Break Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Co-op, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express, Exxon, Holiday, Kwik Star Stores, Kwik Trip, Mahalo, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Petro-Canada, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road ...Aug 22, 2016

[MarkEHansen]

list is old so there may be more by now. Top Tier retailers include 76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, Beacon, BP, Break Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Co-op, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express, Exxon, Holiday, Kwik Star Stores, Kwik Trip, Mahalo, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Petro-Canada, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road ...Aug 22, 2016


Where do you get this information? As was said before, just because a station is listed as providing top-tier gas doesn't mean they provide top-tier diesel.

[travelin texans]

list is old so there may be more by now. Top Tier retailers include 76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, BeaconpriDyak Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Co-op, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express, Exxon, Holiday, Kwik Star Stores, Kwik Trip, Mahalo, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Petro-Canada, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road ...Aug 22, 2016

That list must be a lot older than 2016!! I went to work for Diamond Shamrock in 1979, it became Ultrmar Diamond Shamrock, then to Valero in the late 90' s or early 2000' s. The only Diamond Shamrock stations Valero has still in existence (very few) are the very very low volume privately owned convenience stores, which are the ones you may not want to buy fuel from.

[gearhead]

Yeah that list has to be old. I haven't seen a Diamond Shamrock in a very long time.
I've been burning some Conoco lately, from a regional grocery store (Brookshire Bros.). No issues.
I've got an issue with Shell, via Motiva (Saudi), and have been on a personal boycott. DW says: "you think it makes a difference to them?" No, but it does to me.

[notanlines]

"DW says: "you think it makes a difference to them?" No, but it does to me." Good point, Gearhead!
It is all about self-respect. Jane Fonda movies? Buy American? Shell oil? Exxon oil? Nissan pickup? I could go on and on. If you have a beef with a person or product then don't buy into it. I'm not trying to be political, I'm trying to make a point that we need to show support for the people and products that we deem positive to our way of life. Self-respect will follow.

[SkiSmuggs]

Top Tier is a standard, not a brand and it was requested by automobile manufacturers to solve problems they saw that were being caused by fuel and to help them meet fuel mileage requirements. While the gas Top Tier standard has been around for several years, it wasn't until 2017 that Top Tier diesel standards were released. The implementation has been slow because it requires changes at the station as well as in the refining or blending process. The link below indicates that TT gas is worth paying for.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/study-shows-top-tier-gasoline-worth-extra-price/

https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

https://www.toptiergas.com/diesel-licensed-brands/

[jimborokz]

Quite a discussion here...:whistling:
My first diesel was a 99 Dodge Ram Cummins. I am currently on my third Ford SuperDuty. In all this time I have never had water separator issues nor have I ever used additives. I live in the NE so I end up with the winter blends and I try to buy at stations with high volume sales which also tend to be the low priced places fulfilling supply/demand economic laws. Maybe I've just been lucky but I really don't see the need to over Analise this. As to the pricing observations, I agree that it's sad to see the gas price drop faster than the diesel prices. I'm wondering if that is a result of a booming economy and just more goods being shipped via trucks. It seems to me the roads are loaded with semis and every trucking firm I pass on the highway has a large banner that they are hiring drivers. The law of supply and demand is not a political or economic trick, it is a natural law that always applies in the end.