Class A non Commercial Lic California

[Bbqguy]

Just wanted to reach out to everyone.
I am a new member and just (yesterday) received my Class A noncommercial in order to pull my 5th wheel legally. It was interesting to say the least.
Yes I had to have a Class A driver with me when I showed up. I was lucky enough to have a Class A instructor be the one. I suggest you contact one to see if you might be able to hire an instructor to at least go over the basics and then show up as your co-pilot. Mine filled me in on what the instant fails were and what they go over in the pre-trip. It helped me.
I am sure that most everyone on this site are very comfortable backing up their rigs, as I was. I have to admit, I almost failed in the skills test in backing up at a 90 degree as well as positioning your back bumper in a small area. I suggest use your camera and mirrors heavily.
Know your truck and where everything is and be prepared to explain each part and why you check fluids and the basic mechanics. This goes for the rig as well.
Even though they have a seperate check list for RV's, you need to remember that these folks are use to testing commercial drivers and they hold you to the same standards, at least in my area.
Bottom line, if I can do it, you can as well.
Remember one thing, if you choose to gamble, and not do the Class A for RV's (that is if you are the size and weight to need one) and you get pulled over or in an accident, insurance companies may walk. The DOT check to make sure you have the proper license for the rig you are driving or pulling. This is true, at least in my neck of the woods. The insurance companies, may just say to you,sorry, but you were illegal.
May have some difference of opinions out there. either way, good luck

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum :wlcm:

Congrats on getting your license and being "legal". This subject has been discussed too many times to count, but thank you for the reminder once again. Looking forward to hearing stories about your travels and such. Lots of good people and tons of great information here

[Bbqguy]

Thanks for the reply Chuck.
You are right there is a ton of info here.
As you said, this is one of those discussions that I am sure will pop up off and on for years to come as it has in the past.
I hooked up with this trucking outfit that is getting into helping folks prepare for the test, if they choose to do so. I Would be more than happy to send new and experienced RV'rs that may choose to take that last step in learning some things as well as polishing their skills to take the test.
Just not sure if I post their website here or if there is more appropriate way. It is here in Northern California (Yuba Sutter area) so it does not help the entire forum.
Anyway, I learned some things that did not know and helped me to pass the test and hone my skills to pull my beast. Been pulling different rigs for over 45 years. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

[ctbruce]

I'd suggest having folks PM you for the hook up. And welcome and congrats on passing.

[deleontow]

Here is one other item for those that gamble. Should you be stopped and do not have a Class A when needed, you will not be able to continue your trip. Your Rig may also be impounded. Though normally CHP will not impound they will not let you continue to drive away from a stop without the correct license.

[MattE303]

Sent you a PM...

[Laredo Tugger]

"Though normally CHP will not impound they will not let you continue to drive away from a stop without the correct license."
So the Chippy just camps out with you until you get a Class A? Right.

ANOTHER reason I moved out of CA. Just another regulation to get more money out of your pocket. They are worried about me being illegal on their highways with my 5er (which is legal to tow in any other state) but they are not worried about 12 million people being in their state "illegally"? Really? That's California.
Guess where your license fees are going.
RMc

[deleontow]

"Though normally CHP will not impound they will not let you continue to drive away from a stop without the correct license."
So the Chippy just camps out with you until you get a Class A? Right.

ANOTHER reason I moved out of CA. Just another regulation to get more money out of your pocket. They are worried about me being illegal on their highways with my 5er (which is legal to tow in any other state) but they are not worried about 12 million people being in their state "illegally"? Really? That's California.
Guess where your license fees are going.
RMc

CHP Wont camp out but if you drive away and they see you, your rig will be impounded. (I used to run a tow company).

Your also right about driving illegally. If you can be cited and jailed for fishing or hunting illegally but not for being in the country illegally your in a state run by idiots!!!

[Laredo Tugger]

deleontow,Thanks for the info. I was doing a little research and I may be wrong about every other state not requiring this CDL. I believe it is a federally mandated standard. Nothing was mentioned when I registered my 5er and have not been notified of any changes needed to my DL in my state.
I have been researching, if I am traveling through CA with my out of state DL and trailer tags, am I required to get this licence or some type of temporary permit?
As for the "illegals", I'm surprised the mods let us get this far with it,but I had enough (of that and other things) and got out of CA. Best thing I ever did.
RMc

[MattE303]

deleontow,Thanks for the info. I was doing a little research and I may be wrong about every other state not requiring this CDL. I believe it is a federally mandated standard. Nothing was mentioned when I registered my 5er and have not been notified of any changes needed to my DL in my state.
I have been researching, if I am traveling through CA with my out of state DL and trailer tags, am I required to get this licence or some type of temporary permit?
As for the "illegals", I'm surprised the mods let us get this far with it,but I had enough (of that and other things) and got out of CA. Best thing I ever did.
RMcDifferent states have different requirements, some similar to California, some none at all. All states have a "reciprocity" policy (I think that's what it's called), so as long as you meet the requirement in the state your DL is from, you're legal in other states when you're just passing through, you don't need any kind of temporary permit. Important note: the reciprocity rule applies only to driver's license restrictions, it does NOT apply to vehicle configuration/constraints (like total length, or triple towing).

They don't tell you anything about license requirements when you register a trailer or motorhome, most of the time the person processing the paperwork has no clue about that. I've never heard of an RV dealer mentioning it either (wouldn't want to risk a sale, right? :rolleyes: )

[JRTJH]

You're right about reciprocity in all 50 states. The problem comes in when, as an example, you're from TX, which requires a CDL for rigs rated greater than 26,000 pounds. You don't have one, because you didn't know you needed it, and when you're on vacation in California, you get stopped at a routine safety check or for driving 60 in a 70 MPH zone (trailers all have speed limits of 55MPH). The CHP notices that your TX license does not have an endorsement for towing over 26,000 pounds. So, even though you're not aware of the requirement, now it is up to him to interpret Texas law, determine how it melds with California law and decide whether to hand you your license back, give you a ticket or impound your rig because, as an "out of stater" you're a "flight risk"....

Depending on his breakfast, his coffee level or what was said at the morning meeting that upset (or didn't) him, you are, more or less "at the mercy of his whim".... Being 1000 miles from home, that's not a "safe and secure" feeling.....

Frustrating, especially if you don't know "EXACTLY" what is required in your home state and haven't complied with the licensing at home..... It could get expensive and make an enjoyable trip turn into a nightmare !!!!!

I know, I'm preaching "doom and gloom" but the reality is, when we tow across state lines, we don't have the same safety net that we expect at home. At least at home, most "state guys" will explain what you're doing wrong and give you a chance to fix it.... You won't get that as an "out of stater" and there's no place to turn to fix it until you get home..... Precarious to say the lease......

[Wing-in-it]

i don’t know.....but have you seen some folks drive some of these big rigs out there....it’s kind of scary that you need a special license to drive a commercial vehicle but not for an RV.

Think about it......

It all boils down to the money......the RV industry would go belly up if all the states required it.

And trust me, I’m no fan of California.....

Flame suit on........

[jsmith948]

Well...You won't find me singing praise for the California DMV. However, in this instance, I think their licensing requirements for RVs are reasonable. If your trailer's GVWR is 10,000# or less - a class C license is adequate. If your trailer's GVWR is 10,001# up to 15,000# then you need the "RV endorsement" to your class C license (requires a written test only). If your trailer's GVWR is 15,001# or greater, you will need a non-commercial class A. Motor homes have different requirements based on the length of the coach.
I held a commercial class A for 40 years (it was called a class 1 when I got mine). This year, upon renewal, I gave up the class A and reverted to a regular class C. Our trailer's GVWR is under 10000# so I"m good to go. Way less hassle for this 71 year old with all the new background checks/physical exam requirements and I don't plan on double towing or having a trailer weighing more than 15,000# GVWR.
As to leaving California for a less regulated environment - our youngest son and his family are 1 1/2 hours away and our home here is free and clear so we'll probably stay here - regulations, taxes and all:D

[deleontow]

So just to clarify for someone who may not understand. In California, ball mount trailer under 10K class C, over 10K Class A. 5th Wheel trailers have a different requirement. under 15K you can tow with a class C over 15K you need a class A.

[chuckster57]

So just to clarify for someone who may not understand. In California, ball mount trailer under 10K class C, over 10K Class A. 5th Wheel trailers have a different requirement. under 15K you can tow with a class C over 15K you need a class A.


Fifth wheel under 10000 gvwr is class C. Over 10000 and under 15000 requires the endorsement. Over 15000 requires the non commercial class A.

[deleontow]

Fifth wheel under 10000 gvwr is class C. Over 10000 and under 15000 requires the endorsement. Over 15000 requires the non commercial class A.

Not in California. No endorsement required on 5th wheels up to 15K over requires Class A commercial or Class A non-commercial.

[chuckster57]

Not in California. No endorsement required on 5th wheels up to 15K over requires Class A commercial or Class A non-commercial.



https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5

[deleontow]

Wow I stand corrected.... This one is new to me, as recently a friend was at DMV and was told a bit different. Thanks

[chuckster57]

Your welcome. I dare say if you go to 5 different DMV field offices you will get 5 different answers.

[travelin texans]

Your welcome. I dare say if you go to 5 different DMV field offices you will get 5 different answers.

The same in Texas, this topic has been ongoing for years. I've ask the folks at the DMV, a couple troopers & have read the regs & I nor any of those I've ask know for sure how to interpret it.
Basically it says if gross is 26k or less it's not needed, 26001 it is. BUT nowhere does indicate if that's scaled weight or total GVWs of the 2? Plus the last copy of the regs I read last had a 1/2 dozen exemptions, mostly for farmers, with last one stating "if for personal use", hence the confusion by everyone.
It was also mentioned earlier, if the rv dealers mention, if anyone there had a clue, a special DL is needed their sales will drop like rock.

[MattE303]

Wow I stand corrected.... This one is new to me, as recently a friend was at DMV and was told a bit different. Thanks
People working at the DMV have no clue about the RV/trailer requirements, when I went in to take the test for Restriction 41 (the '5th wheel endorsement'), they'd never heard of it, I had to show them where to look it up in the handbook so they'd know what test to give me, etc.

[Mad Cow]

The beauty of having a CDL A with all endorsements along with a Motorcycle endorsement. Can operate any vehicle that can go down a road.

[louielouieohoh]

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5

Chuckster57,
Wow! This is new! I checked this very closely last year and there was no endorsement required for a 5er 10 to 15k. Darn sneaky DMV!
Well, I'm leaving Wednesday so if the CHP gets me, they get me?

[Garyd1612]

Here are the California requirements for the Class A noncommercial:Travel Trailer/Fifth Wheel (Noncommercial Class A)
— Over 15,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or a trailer coach over 10,000 pounds GVWR, when the towing is not for compensation.

[Bolo4u]

Here are the California requirements for the Class A noncommercial:Travel Trailer/Fifth Wheel (Noncommercial Class A)

— Over 15,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or a trailer coach over 10,000 pounds GVWR, when the towing is not for compensation.



Yes

Conventional (ball/tongue) travel trailer under 10k, regular class C

Over 10k then a non commercial class A is required

Fifth wheel under 10k regular class C
Fifth wheel 10-15k a restriction 41 endorsement. Over 15k requires a non-commercial class A

The confusion likely is with the fifth wheel 10-15k only requiring endorsement/restriction, whereas the travel trailer over 10k or 5th over 15k requires a non-commercial class A.

[Laredo Tugger]

So all large 5er owners in CA are going to be required to study and take the test (written and driving) regularly,get and maintain a medial certificate, pay outrageous fees and be subject to more stringent laws while driving anything besides their TV and 5er Yes, if you read the rules they do not like their Class A certified drivers misbehaving in whatever they drive. Just a few more chips away at the block called freedom if you ask me. Give it a couple of years and,in CA you are going to need a Class A to tow a tent trailer with a Ford Ranger (or any small,less than 150 pick up).
It's all about REVENUE in that state. Period.

[chuckster57]

Yes

Conventional (ball/tongue) travel trailer under 10k, regular class C

Over 10k then a non commercial class A is required

Fifth wheel under 10k regular class C
Fifth wheel 10-15k a restriction 41 endorsement. Over 15k requires a non-commercial class A

The confusion likely is with the fifth wheel 10-15k only requiring endorsement/restriction, whereas the travel trailer over 10k or 5th over 15k requires a non-commercial class A.

I did not know about the conventional travel trailer requirement, And I can bet none of our sales staff knows that either.

[travelin texans]

I know California is broke needs all the revenue they can come up with but you'd think their law enforcement would have much better things to do than stop rvers to check that they have the proper drivers license.
Plus if those from other states drive through the reprocity should be ok, those officers could not possibly know what's legal in all the other states & impound rvs. If my drivers license is legal in Texas then it's legal in all other states....regardless of what a CHP officer says/thinks.

[chuckster57]

I can say I see lots of RVs on the road everyday, and from my observations CHP isn’t focused on “us”. Yeah if you see a triple axle on a SRW, odds are in LEO favor that they are not legal. I for one have no issue with those people being taken off the road for EVERYBODY’S safety. CHP is busy enough with speeders and texters on my daily commute, and the accidents they cause.

There are no doubt some “hot spots” like Pismo Beach where weight/licensing rules are more the focus, but I rarely see an RV pulled over in my commute from the Central Valley to the Bay Area everyday.

[LewisB]

All of this discussion got me to wondering (maybe worrying) about Arizona regulations! Here's why:
TV = 2017 Ford F350 DRW GVWR = 14,000
Trailer = 2008 Raptor 3712TS GVWR = 16,500
Actual Certified scale weight of combined vehicles = 27,840

When I use the Arizona DMV website flowchart, sure enough it looks like any passenger vehicle towing a trailer over 10,000 AND has a combined GVWR over 26,000 takes a CDL. That would include my rig (above).

HOWEVER, there is some fine print that is NOT mentioned by the DMV on this website. I found Arizona Revised Statutes 38-3102 which states (in part):
"...a person who operates an authorized emergency vehicle, a farm vehicle or a recreational vehicle may operate the vehicle with a class A, B, C, D or G license." That's any license class, and:
""Recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle or vehicle combination that is more than twenty-six thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating and that is designed and exclusively used for private pleasure, including vehicles commonly called motor homes, pickup trucks with campers, travel trailers, boat trailers and horse trailers used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes."

Bottom line for Arizona: I don't need any special license for an RV regardless of weight as long as it conforms to noncommercial purposes. So, my heart rate is nearly back to normal now (ha-ha)! Thank God I don't live in California!

[Bolo4u]

I know California is broke needs all the revenue they can come up with but you'd think their law enforcement would have much better things to do than stop rvers to check that they have the proper drivers license.
Plus if those from other states drive through the reprocity should be ok, those officers could not possibly know what's legal in all the other states & impound rvs. If my drivers license is legal in Texas then it's legal in all other states....regardless of what a CHP officer says/thinks.

Yes we do have better things to do than stop and check RV'rs... And regardless of what we say/think, as long as the driver is legally licensed for their setup in their home state, then yes they're legal In California.

We don't randomly stop to check for license legality, however, if a driver is stopped for another violation, we can check their status and ensure they're driving/towing within their classification.

[JRTJH]

So all large 5er owners in CA are going to be required to study and take the test (written and driving) regularly,get and maintain a medial certificate, pay outrageous fees and be subject to more stringent laws while driving anything besides their TV and 5er Yes, if you read the rules they do not like their Class A certified drivers misbehaving in whatever they drive. Just a few more chips away at the block called freedom if you ask me. Give it a couple of years and,in CA you are going to need a Class A to tow a tent trailer with a Ford Ranger (or any small,less than 150 pick up).
It's all about REVENUE in that state. Period.

There is a significant difference in requirements to obtain/maintain a "non-commercial class A" (RV'ers) and a "commercial class A" (for profit drivers)

I think you might have "lumped too much" into one rant.... RV'ers aren't commercial drivers and the health/physical requirements, etc don't apply. On the other hand, if an RV'er should happen to get a DUI in his sports car, do you really want him excluded from the penalty in his RV?

[Bolo4u]

There is a significant difference in requirements to obtain/maintain a "non-commercial class A" (RV'ers) and a "commercial class A" (for profit drivers)

I think you might have "lumped too much" into one rant.... RV'ers aren't commercial drivers and the health/physical requirements, etc don't apply. On the other hand, if an RV'er should happen to get a DUI in his sports car, do you really want him excluded from the penalty in his RV?

Mostly true... This is from the DMV website(https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/dl/driversafety/cdl_guidelines):

In come cases a physician's report is not required. Instead, upon application and every two years thereafter, drivers certify they meet the medical standards by completing a Health Questionnaire (DL 546). This report is permitted for the following three groups of drivers:

Persons with a Class A non-commercial license are restricted to towing recreational trailers or livestock trailers.