Overloaded TV

[BAPotter]

We have lots of discussions about a TV being able to pull a particular trailer, but not always enough discussion about being able to control the trailer. This was Utah today.

[Logan X]

This is a very good visual reminder. I’m usually concerned when I see a smaller SUV pulling a medium to large trailer.

[rhagfo]

I am sure the road conditions had nothing to do with the crash!
I will say I have see some smaller SUV's towing some TT that I felt was not a good combination.

Looking at the picture I am also wondering why the right lane looks to have more snow on it than the left. Understand the TV appears to have spun around 180 degrees.

[66joej]

Can't really see a WDH. Also looks like an Alberta plate. He/she should be familiar with winter driving. Hopefully no one injured.

[travelin texans]

From 1 to 10 on the pucker factor scale I'd say that was a 12!!
I also don't see WDH or any type of sway control & definitely not enough vehicle in my opinion.

[Alpine]

Whoa... with those road conditions? What's the hurry...obviously I don't know their particular circumstances, hunker down for a couple more hours and the roads may have burned off!

[Ken / Claudia]

Although I have no knowledge of that crash. I will say nearly all crashes I have seen, investigated or assisted with in bad weather are due to driving to fast for the conditions and then using the brakes. As the vehicle starts sliding most stand on the brake instead of releasing it. That only results in a crash. Sometimes minor steering or slowing without braking will prevent the crash. That will work if your traveling at a safe speed and not following to close.

Unless you practice or continue to remind yourself brakes are not your friend in all situations you will also stand on the brakes and just go where the vehicle takes you without any control.

[sourdough]

Several things strike me from those photos:

As was observed, no wdh/sway.

Although the TV is an Armada, they are not built as a tow vehicle and would struggle IMO under the best of circumstances; to put a fair sized trailer on the back of one without the benefit of a wdh or sway control just makes one scratch their head.

The road doesn't look that bad if one is driving properly. Looks like the snow/slush is pretty well worn off or graded and it looks wet, not dull as if frozen. Now, if you let the SUV or trailer get off in the muck on the sides, especially with no sway control, you will get what you get.

This situation (pics) illustrate why we stress, repeatedly, about towing properly within weights to keep yourself, your family and others safe. When this episode started there was NOTHING the driver of the TV was going to do to save the situation, or, that family coming up behind them that could have run into them while they're doing a 180 in the middle of the highway. You have to take care of business all the time.

Of course, another cause of this could have been the driver constantly worrying with their smartphone and didn't have time to actually pay attention to driving - which seems to be happening with more and more frequency. As a note; ran into our closest little town this morning for breakfast (about 15 miles). On the return trip got behind an older Ford Expedition with a woman (late 20s or so) driving.....very erratically. I followed her for miles at 35-45 (45 speed limit) then a few miles at 55-60 (speed limit 55). During that entire trip I would bet her eyes were not on the road for more that 5 minutes total. She was working her smartphone - I watched her in her left rear view mirror the entire way. She sat well into 2 green lights because she just wasn't looking. I was going to honk but was worried she would just jump off without looking and hit something. Finally decided to pass before she hit the brakes (again) for no reason. The kicker? She had 3 (THREE) small children in the back seat....unrestrained!!! I know that's a long story to put on this but it came to mind when I made the observation about texting and the wreck...probably the reason I thought of it. And, have had no internet since Friday so guess I've got all these little things "bubbling" around in my head.:lol::lol::flowers:

[Carrottop]

Having a 2015 Armada they are probably one of the most capable of the full size SUV's you will find to tow wit, they are equipped with factory airbags to keep the unit level as well as a factory class IV hitch. That being said I have only used mine a couple of times to pull my trailer when my truck was unavailable. I always used my WDH and never had any issue. Was it an enjoyable tow, no, was it over loaded no, as it has a towing capacity of 9000lbs (that trailers does not look that large) it has a payload capacity of 1300lbs (can't speak to what was loaded in the SUV). The fact they seem to be towing in inclement weather (bad idea) and without a WDH (really bad idea) I agree this was an accident waiting to happen.

[Badbart56]

The relatively short wheelbase on the Armada and other similar SUV's is not your friend when it comes to towing. It may seem to be a big SUV but it only has 131 inches WB and that isn't great for handling.

[JRTJH]

The relatively short wheelbase on the Armada and other similar SUV's is not your friend when it comes to towing. It may seem to be a big SUV but it only has 131 inches WB and that isn't great for handling.

The "old towing guides" (before the days of XLite, UltraLite and Half Ton trailers) used to suggest the following "rule of thumb":

Maximum trailer length of 20' for a 110" wheelbase and 1 added foot of trailer for each 4" of additional wheelbase. Using this, the 131" wheelbase of an Armada would work out to about a 25' maximum trailer length. (110=20 and the extra 21"=5')

I've heard all kinds of excuses why this no longer applies, everything from "today's vehicles have electronic sway control" to "trailers now have wide spaced axles" to "that rule of thumb was for older style suspension systems and doesn't apply to modern vehicles".... Use it or not, but it served us well for many years, back when we were pulling vacation trailers with the family station wagon.....

To me, a 131" wheelbase is a "marginal tow vehicle" for a trailer longer than about 25-26 feet. Then you start adding the trailer weight, payload, GCWR, GVWR, RAWR and then "omit the WD hitch/sway control" and, well, you get a trailer on its side laying next to the highway with the rear of the tow vehicle hanging off the ground by the safety chains..... JMHO

[Badbart56]

Technology or not, physics is physics.....

[Logan X]

The "old towing guides" (before the days of XLite, UltraLite and Half Ton trailers) used to suggest the following "rule of thumb":

Maximum trailer length of 20' for a 110" wheelbase and 1 added foot of trailer for each 4" of additional wheelbase. Using this, the 131" wheelbase of an Armada would work out to about a 25' maximum trailer length. (110=20 and the extra 21"=5')

I've heard all kinds of excuses why this no longer applies, everything from "today's vehicles have electronic sway control" to "trailers now have wide spaced axles" to "that rule of thumb was for older style suspension systems and doesn't apply to modern vehicles".... Use it or not, but it served us well for many years, back when we were pulling vacation trailers with the family station wagon.....

To me, a 131" wheelbase is a "marginal tow vehicle" for a trailer longer than about 25-26 feet. Then you start adding the trailer weight, payload, GCWR, GVWR, RAWR and then "omit the WD hitch/sway control" and, well, you get a trailer on its side laying next to the highway with the rear of the tow vehicle hanging off the ground by the safety chains..... JMHO

It seems like the above mentioned rule of thumb for wheelbase still applies.

[PARAPTOR]

Several things strike me from those photos:

As was observed, no wdh/sway.

Although the TV is an Armada, they are not built as a tow vehicle and would struggle IMO under the best of circumstances; to put a fair sized trailer on the back of one without the benefit of a wdh or sway control just makes one scratch their head.

The road doesn't look that bad if one is driving properly. Looks like the snow/slush is pretty well worn off or graded and it looks wet, not dull as if frozen. Now, if you let the SUV or trailer get off in the muck on the sides, especially with no sway control, you will get what you get.

This situation (pics) illustrate why we stress, repeatedly, about towing properly within weights to keep yourself, your family and others safe. When this episode started there was NOTHING the driver of the TV was going to do to save the situation, or, that family coming up behind them that could have run into them while they're doing a 180 in the middle of the highway. You have to take care of business all the time.

Of course, another cause of this could have been the driver constantly worrying with their smartphone and didn't have time to actually pay attention to driving - which seems to be happening with more and more frequency. As a note; ran into our closest little town this morning for breakfast (about 15 miles). On the return trip got behind an older Ford Expedition with a woman (late 20s or so) driving.....very erratically. I followed her for miles at 35-45 (45 speed limit) then a few miles at 55-60 (speed limit 55). During that entire trip I would bet her eyes were not on the road for more that 5 minutes total. She was working her smartphone - I watched her in her left rear view mirror the entire way. She sat well into 2 green lights because she just wasn't looking. I was going to honk but was worried she would just jump off without looking and hit something. Finally decided to pass before she hit the brakes (again) for no reason. The kicker? She had 3 (THREE) small children in the back seat....unrestrained!!! I know that's a long story to put on this but it came to mind when I made the observation about texting and the wreck...probably the reason I thought of it. And, have had no internet since Friday so guess I've got all these little things "bubbling" around in my head.:lol::lol::flowers:

I think the point many of us stress is having a TV not sized for your trailer which can result in situations exactly like this. Its not that you can just pull something, can you control it, is it legal. This could have been a 2500 (I can pull that) towing a TH or worse a tri axle. Its a matter of protecting those in your TV, as well as, others on the road. when I meet these combinations on the road, first thing to come to mind is to get away from this potential accident :facepalm: My two cents, Be Safe

[flybouy]

It's be said many times on this forum, "you don't know what you don't know". It's like shooting paper targets vs real life experience of having someone shooting back at you. I'll take the experienced partner (and their advice) any day. JMHO

[Gegrad]

Hard to say what their payload was, etc. We have a state vehicle (2015 Expedition 4X4 with the ecoboost, stripper model) with a yellow sticker payload of 2200 lbs. I peeked at it a few months ago after learning all about payload on here and was shocked to learn a standard expedition had that much payload. I have no idea what an Armada has, but that isn't a large trailer. I would posit that towing without a WDH and the weather/road conditions played the largest factor in this one, not vehicle issues.

[cookinwitdiesel]

I agree, the vehicle alone is not suspect. An Armada is about as big as a Tahoe/Expedition. The hitch situation is reprehensible however. And as noted, while it CAN tow, it will not be fun and is potentially unsafe.

[Carrottop]

Hard to say what their payload was, etc. We have a state vehicle (2015 Expedition 4X4 with the ecoboost, stripper model) with a yellow sticker payload of 2200 lbs. I peeked at it a few months ago after learning all about payload on here and was shocked to learn a standard expedition had that much payload. I have no idea what an Armada has, but that isn't a large trailer. I would posit that towing without a WDH and the weather/road conditions played the largest factor in this one, not vehicle issues.
The payload of an Armada Platinum which that one seems to be is around the 1300 and change. I have a 2015 platinum and it has 1380.

[BadmanRick]

I see all the comments reference this accident. No one has mentioned WIND. If the wind caused this accident then even with a wdh, anti sway bar/hitch etc. it could not be avoided. I have seen Semi trucks blown over in the wind. Yes a wdh and anti sway should be on this vehicle. It may not have made a difference.
I towed my 2011 Bullet Premier 19’ trailer with a Toyota 4 runner. Not a vehicle for towing this size trailer. Had a heck of a time with trucks and busses passing me and blowing me off the road. I upgraded to a Toyota Tundra. Problem solved. No problem with wind, trucks or busses. Just sayin.

[Blackrock]

I came across something like that only a little worse in Yellowstone Park this summer.

[RWHightower]

I have experience with similar TV type (QX-56 same as Armada)as this accident towing several trailer types including 18 foot car hauler and Keystone 22 RBPR. The Armada/QX-56 is a good tow vehicle as long as you stay within the tow and tongue weights, use stabilization and drive sensible speeds for the wheelbase and driving conditions.

My other TV is a F-150 SuperCrew 5.5 bed with EcoBoost V6 towing same Trailer’s plus a Keystone 27BHS. I will say the F-150 is a far superior TV to the Armada/QX for all trailers I have towed.

SUV’s often are maligned on these forums and that, unfortunately, may be missing an opportunity to improve the owner experience for others by sharing our experience and knowledge.
My observation is that SUV owners are often less experienced towers and may not know the limitations and design dynamics of their TV. Many of these SUV are excellent tow vehicles for lighter loads including Armadas/QX. I really like when the forum community help other owners by remembering how we learned from those ahead of us on the learning curve!

[LFord]

Many of these SUV are excellent tow vehicles for lighter loads including Armadas/QX.!


Yes, if you are towing a R-POD (or Keystone equivalent of an R-POD), presumably with a WDH.

[sourdough]

I have experience with similar TV type (QX-56 same as Armada)as this accident towing several trailer types including 18 foot car hauler and Keystone 22 RBPR. The Armada/QX-56 is a good tow vehicle as long as you stay within the tow and tongue weights, use stabilization and drive sensible speeds for the wheelbase and driving conditions.

My other TV is a F-150 SuperCrew 5.5 bed with EcoBoost V6 towing same Trailer’s plus a Keystone 27BHS. I will say the F-150 is a far superior TV to the Armada/QX for all trailers I have towed.

SUV’s often are maligned on these forums and that, unfortunately, may be missing an opportunity to improve the owner experience for others by sharing our experience and knowledge.
My observation is that SUV owners are often less experienced towers and may not know the limitations and design dynamics of their TV. Many of these SUV are excellent tow vehicles for lighter loads including Armadas/QX. I really like when the forum community help other owners by remembering how we learned from those ahead of us on the learning curve!


Your comments and observations are correct IMO. I think the thing on this, since we are just looking at a picture, is coming up with all kinds of conjecture based on the pic. Doing so leaves the door to most any/all kinds of theories.

I think what blows common sense or advising from past experiences is the fact that there is no wdh or sway. On a GOOD day the Armada may have been up to the task with that trailer (it is a mid sized trailer) with the wdh and sway. Without those, on that kind of road, the Armada wasn't up to the task any way, shape, fashion or form. So, in the end, we aren't trying to advise a (the) driver, simply making comments about poor decision making IMO.

As far as wind, I think that is unlikely. If there was a wind strong enough to blow a loaded RV over there would have been other situations I would think. That's purely opinion based on nothing but I really suspect the driver let the vehicle/trailer get into the buildup on the edge, lost control of the trailer and had no way to get it back. YMMV

[jack65]

Of course, another cause of this could have been the driver constantly worrying with their smartphone and didn't have time to actually pay attention to driving - which seems to be happening with more and more frequency. As a note; ran into our closest little town this morning for breakfast (about 15 miles). On the return trip got behind an older Ford Expedition with a woman (late 20s or so) driving.....very erratically. I followed her for miles at 35-45 (45 speed limit) then a few miles at 55-60 (speed limit 55). During that entire trip I would bet her eyes were not on the road for more that 5 minutes total. She was working her smartphone - I watched her in her left rear view mirror the entire way. She sat well into 2 green lights because she just wasn't looking. I was going to honk but was worried she would just jump off without looking and hit something. Finally decided to pass before she hit the brakes (again) for no reason. The kicker? She had 3 (THREE) small children in the back seat....unrestrained!!! I know that's a long story to put on this but it came to mind when I made the observation about texting and the wreck...probably the reason I thought of it. And, have had no internet since Friday so guess I've got all these little things "bubbling" around in my head.
Reminds me of the time, (not the first time either) on the busy I-5 traffic between Tacoma / Seattle, a young blonde doing her eyelashes using the rear-view mirror for several miles. I didn't see any hands on the steering wheel as she had a cell phone in the other hand. She was tailgating in bumper to bumper traffic too.:hide: I was hoping there was a cop around as it is illegal to text and drive now... but as usual no cops around when you need them.

Some people are just STUPID and there is no fix for stupid.
Stupid: having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.

[pdaniel]

Having been a campground host for the past 3 years I have seen many combinations of TV towing travel trailers. Some are quite capable, others, not so much. I have seen overloaded pickup trucks and many mid-size SUVs attempting to pull much more than manufacturer recommended gross weights.
I was one of those with a TT the TV could not quite handle (I have since upgraded to a TV that has more capacity than I currently need to I have room to "grow"). That TV has the integrated brake controller and automatic sway controls along with a WDH.
I would like to tell those who attempt to pull one of those "1/2 ton towable" travel trailers that rather invest thousands of dollars into a mid-size SUV to make the jump to a pickup that is much more capable of towing their RV.