New 5th wheel owner and rv'er in general

[Thoth1987]

Hello all.
I'm currently working in Surrey and have decided instead of paying 1200ish a month for renting an apartment that gives me nothing in return when I leave that I'll rent a nice spot and purchase a 5th wheel to live in instead!
This leaves me with a few questions. I've asked salesmen as well as the person I'm renting a spot on his land but I'm still needing a few things sorted out. Any help would be great as well as anything you think I may have over-looked or a common fault with 5th wheels would be so helpful. It's a bit of a big purchase for me.

It's a 2010 Keystone Cougar 318SAB.
Purchasing from Fraserway RV
I've checked all the basics that I can think of. Ceiling/roof, sealing around the windows and slide-outs, axles, rust underneath. Wasn't able to test out the power though as it wasn't hooked up just yet.

I am curious though if anyone has any techniques for leveling them out when parked.
Does anyone know if the propane heating works well with the 'arctic package' that mine has? As in, will it be able to keep decently warm during a chilly night this winter?
Has anyone found an internet provider that can supply their own web to a parked RV on property that already has the net? Or a way to wire in the current landlords internet service? I want to avoid WiFi.
What/Where are the best skirts? Or should I even bother with skirts?

I'm drawing a blank so I'll leave it at that for now. As I said, anything helps. Thanks!

[Canonman]

A little more info would help.
Surrey BC or North Dakota?
Is the parking space gravel, concrete, dirt?
Full hook ups I assume?
Expected nighttime temps?

[Thoth1987]

Oops sorry for some reason I thought this was a BC forum. Surrey BC. I believe the worst it gets during the nights is -15 Celsius. Parked over packed gravel and yes full hook ups :). Power, water and sewage

[JRTJH]

This is a "international forum" with members on both sides of the US/Canadian border, so you're not in the wrong place....

That said, -15C is about 5F, well below freezing and probably lower than you'll want to "camp" or "live in an RV" without making some substantial modifications. First, I'd look at building some skirting to help prevent cold air from blowing under the RV. Just as in a mobile home, blocking off that area will save significant energy and more importantly, retain heat in the RV. DO NOT consider bales of hay!!! They hold water, can become a fire hazard, harbor rodents and insect, encourage mold and mildew and "stink to high heaven" once they sour.... Use wood (OSB or plywood), foam sheeting or vinyl material (fabric or siding).

Second, you MUST operate the RV furnace to keep any heat in the "sub-floor/basement" area where your fresh and waste water tanks are located. Electric heat in the main cabin doesn't protect the "underbelly" from freezing temperatures. So, you'll be using a LOT of propane and will probably consume a 30 pound tank every 3 to 5 days. So, either getting a couple of 100 pound tanks or possibly contracting with a propane delivery service to "set a 50 gallon tank" to provide propane would be much more convenient as well as much less expensive than buying propane "one small tank at a time"....

Third, you will have significant condensation inside the trailer. NEVER cook or shower without the exhaust fan pulling excess moisture out of the cabin. You'll find what works best for you, but most people leave a roof vent slightly open and crack a window on the opposite end of the RV, to help set up a draft to pull moisture out of the RV.

Covering single pane windows with either the "shrink wrap, plastic storm window kits" or using 1/2" rigid foam to physically block the window will help conserve heat and lower propane use. We used the DUCK brand storm window kits (available at Home Depot) on the larger windows in our Holiday Rambler when we full timed in it one winter.

During the evenings and while sleeping, an electric blanket on the bed or an electric "throw" help keep things toasty warm (until you have to move around)...

Staying in an RV during the winter is definitely "doable" but it is not the same as staying in a properly insulated and heated S&B structure. It's really more like staying in an older, cheaply made and barely insulated mobile home (from the 60's)...

You'll learn to leave the cupboard doors (top and bottom) open so heat can get into the cupboards, preventing frozen pipes along the floor and frozen canned goods along the top. Also, keeping the doors open prevents condensation from causing ice buildup inside the cupboards, along the outside walls. Yes, anyone who's lived in an RV in cold weather has seen ice form along the outside walls, often "freezing the dinette cushions to the wall"...

Enjoy the "adventure" and look at it as just that, "an adventure". The right perspective goes a long way toward enjoying or hating the living arrangements.

[66joej]

Oops sorry for some reason I thought this was a BC forum. Surrey BC. I believe the worst it gets during the nights is -15 Celsius. Parked over packed gravel and yes full hook ups :). Power, water and sewage

I lived in Surrey BC and don't believe we ever saw temps down to -15C. 0C = 32F was about it.
Had a 2011 318SAB. It had the enclosed/heated underbelly. Experienced winter temps down to 0C and had to take in the fresh water hose overnight. Other than that no other issues. Obviously you will be running your furnace. YMMV

[Canonman]

That's "HARD Freeze" temps. Your local RV guy can likely help with how best to insulate your 5er. Skirting in those temps is an absolute must. 1" foam sheets cut to fit come to mind first. Plan on using electric heaters indoors to supplement your propane furnace. Also look into having the propane dealer bring out a large outside tank that they can access and fill as needed. You'll need a heated fresh water hose and heat wrap on the fresh water supply. Some heat tape for the sewer connections and hose will be needed as well.
As for leveling, use blocks or wood ramps under both wheels on the low side to get the trailer level side to side. Then use the landing gear to level front to back. Set the rear stabilizers to help keep the trailer from rocking too much. I'd also recommend "X" chocks as they also help stabilize the trailer in addition to chocking the wheels.
Since you're on gravel you might want to put some pads under your landing gear and stabilizers to help with any settling.
Hopefully your RV dealer, the RV park owner/manager and others will help with how they are handling living in their RV's during the winter.
Good luck!

[Thoth1987]

I lived in Surrey BC and don't believe we ever saw temps down to -15C. 0C = 32F was about it.
Had a 2011 318SAB. It had the enclosed/heated underbelly. Experienced winter temps down to 0C and had to take in the fresh water hose overnight. Other than that no other issues. Obviously you will be running your furnace. YMMV

I was thinking worst case, but I really don't know. My last winter was at 100 mile house and I can't recall the temps here. Thanks a lot for that, nice reassurance from the previous persons post. I'll be in maple ridge but I'm sure it won't differ much.

That being said though, that was a ton of great info. I was told about the skirt idea and I need to look into that. Are they universal or do I need one for my model specifically? Also if for some reason the night and or day persists to negative ten should I leave the pilot light lit? I believe that's what was being suggested. That's a lot of info though. I'll be sure to read it over more carefully throughout the day or tonight and for off some more questions when they come up. Thanks a lot!

Also just saw Canonman's post. Also more great info thanks a ton. Leveling will be my first task to handle. More good info!

I'd just like to add, I looked at some weather history and it seems the average cold nights are about -3 Celsius, which didn't happen too much. There was one -6 Celsius as well. So I guess that's a good thing

[Thoth1987]

Is anyone aware of a place to buy a full skirt or do they only cover the upper bed/tow hook area?

[JRTJH]

There are some custom manufactured vinyl trailer skirts. Usually fabricated by marine upholstery shops and expensive. You'd probably do much better buying 1/2" pink rigid foam sheeting and make your own. At this time of the year, the lead time to get a custom manufactured skirt measured, ordered, built, shipped to you, then installed and "fine tuned" would probably put you well into winter, possibly spring before the job is done......

I'd suggest the "cheap route" this year, and make sure you're "cut out for winter RV life" before you go to the expense of a custom vinyl skirt for a used trailer. Skirts typically aren't interchangeable and if you decide to upgrade/downgrade your trailer to something better suited to your needs, you might get stuck with an expensive accessory that won't fit your next RV.

[Thoth1987]

Alright thanks a lot for that. One more Q about the skirts though. I see the generic ones on eBay cover just the tow hook end. Are those relatively universal? Are they even worth it through eBay?

[JRTJH]

The ADCO fifth wheel skirts that cover the underside of the pinbox area are more "cosmetic" than "functional". They are open under the trailer, so unless you skirt the rest of the trailer, the only function the ADCO cover performs is to create a "storage area" under the nose of the trailer, more to prevent people from seeing what's under there than to prevent cold air from entering under the trailer.

That said, if you seal off the rest of the trailer underpinnings, or if you seal off the back of that "pinbox cover" then it would help slow the loss of heat under the front of the trailer. How much? Probably not very much "inside the trailer improvement" without skirting around the rest of the trailer underpinning.

If you're looking for functional skirting, you can use 4 or 5 sheets of rigid foam board to do what that vinyl ADCO cover does, probably for less "out of pocket expense"....

[Thoth1987]

Ah excellent. I was assuming it would block enough wind that just finishing off the rest of the skirting would be enough. I'll just skip that crap and go the foam board route. Maybe some plyboard over top of them all. Thanks again!

[Local150]

I bought a little 6 or 8 inch electric heater with a fan and a little thermostat at walmart and put it in the underbelly of my 5ver and had no troubles and bought a good size elec heater,, saved a lot of propane with it. I was laying in bed one night and it was 5 farenheit,, furnace kicked on after only being off only 90 seconds. 30 lbs propane about 2 nights. Elec heater made a big difference

[mazboy]

first off, 'arctic package' is a joke. your furance will always be running in cold weather....lots of propane. and yes, the RV furances are noisy. you can always have electric heaters throughout however. but that being said you can live in one but I'd be talking to the RV park people about how to keep the trailer warm--lots of needs to keep it warm and the water from freezing.

As for internet connections, it is quiet simple, run a cable/wire to the trailer. if you can't then it is wifi.

[moodman]

One thing you should seriously think about before you buy that unit. many campers are not designed nor rated for full-time camping. If you do, your insurance company may not honor your warranty. Just something to think about.

[travelin texans]

You'll need to check with your insurance agent as to whether they cover you fulltime whether the rv is designed for it or not. Our agent said that if/when we file a claim to state we were in an "extended vacation" & never mention fulltiming.
As to rvs designed for fulltiming, yes you can do so in an entry level rv, but in a year or 2 it will be showing signs that it was not designed for fulltiming. But in that couple years I'll guarantee your thoughts of what is needed or wanted in a rv to fulltime will definitely have changed.

[sourdough]

You'll need to check with your insurance agent as to whether they cover you fulltime whether the rv is designed for it or not. Our agent said that if/when we file a claim to state we were in an "extended vacation" & never mention fulltiming.
As to rvs designed for fulltiming, yes you can do so in an entry level rv, but in a year or 2 it will be showing signs that it was not designed for fulltiming. But in that couple years I'll guarantee your thoughts of what is needed or wanted in a rv to fulltime will definitely have changed.


^^^^A very true statement. My first full size travel trailer was a new 1985 Terry Taurus. Entry level (if there was such a thing back then) with few bells and whistles; no covered underbelly etc. I didn't full time in it but I worked out of it year round and managed to spend some extensive time in it in very cold temps. It was a learning curve and came with some inconveniences but I got through - and pretty comfortably, and as Danny said, it definitely changed what I thought I needed or wanted in an RV.

[JRTJH]

One thing you should seriously think about before you buy that unit. many campers are not designed nor rated for full-time camping. If you do, your insurance company may not honor your warranty. Just something to think about.

To "extend" (pun intended/you'll see in the second paragraph) a bit on this comment, most insurance agents won't get involved in whether you're full timing or not. If they ask the question, then it's up to you to know how to best answer without making false statements.

Beyond "insurance" in the strictest definition, essentially all "extended warranties" are really insurance policies that cover repairs to certain parts of the trailer. These policies are not "true insurance in the form of liability coverage" but are "modified policies that provide repair coverage". Some of them MAY (or may not) have clauses regarding full time use of the RV. It would benefit anyone with an extended warranty to read the policy terms to determine whether telling the company that you're using the trailer "full time" might void your extended warranty..... YMMV

[travelin texans]

IMHO when it comes to warrantys or insurances don't mention fulltiming, most people don't understand the fulltime concept so probably won't ask, so don't tell.

[JRTJH]

IMHO when it comes to warrantys or insurances don't mention fulltiming, most people don't understand the fulltime concept so probably won't ask, so don't tell.

Don't ask/Don't tell: Some say it worked in the military for almost 20 years, Some say it was a complete success, some say it was a total failure.... Probably best not to even discuss "don't ask/don't tell" as it pertains to the military,

Now, as for insurance and warranties....... Don't ask/don't tell is probably a better program for RV's, eh???? YMMV

[judia]

Have also heard to put foam board, or a wool blanket, or something under your mattress. Also, reflectix on windows and on the outside walls of your cabinets. Helps in both hot and cold temps. Leave a vent open a bit and you may need a dehumidifier. Good luck!

[travelin texans]

Have also heard to put foam board, or a wool blanket, or something under your mattress. Also, reflectix on windows and on the outside walls of your cabinets. Helps in both hot and cold temps. Leave a vent open a bit and you may need a dehumidifier. Good luck!

A fellow on another forum put reflectix on the out side of the windows claiming it would damage the dual pane windows if on the inside.
There's 2 problems for me with his idea, #1 it would look like total crap from the outside, #2 my DW would NEVER allow me to turn it into a cave inside with NO natural light. If there was a 3rd, I don't think it would damage the windows or make a noticeable difference in the temps.

[Logan X]

A fellow on another forum put reflectix on the out side of the windows claiming it would damage the dual pane windows if on the inside.
There's 2 problems for me with his idea, #1 it would look like total crap from the outside, #2 my DW would NEVER allow me to turn it into a cave inside with NO natural light. If there was a 3rd, I don't think it would damage the windows or make a noticeable difference in the temps.

My wife would never let me cover all of the windows and make it like a cave either.

[sourdough]

Don't ask/Don't tell: Some say it worked in the military for almost 20 years, Some say it was a complete success, some say it was a total failure.... Probably best not to even discuss "don't ask/don't tell" as it pertains to the military,

Now, as for insurance and warranties....... Don't ask/don't tell is probably a better program for RV's, eh???? YMMV


Here's the deal to me, if that means a whit.

Don't ask don't tell? That phrase just bugs me. Is it or ain't it, as the question used to be. Go with that.

I was asked about how much time I would spend in my trailer when getting insurance; I told them I had no idea; I would not, could not live in it full time but had ZERO idea how much I would use it but probably less than 6 mos. a year - honest, factual. They did, at that time, mention some sort of differences for a "full time" user - I wasn't concerned. They had some sort of pricing/exclusions if I recall based on the amount of usage - I don't care.

I'm not sure how/why anyone that full times tries to hood wink the insurance companies to cut some expense....while not telling the truth. Failing to tell the truth, trying to "shade" reality is just a way to get caught in a terrible place somewhere in the future. I have tried that in the past...I have paid far more than anything I could have hoped to save. I have had family members that thought that was/should be a way of life to "get ahead" quicker than others; to cheat the system. They, every one, WISH they could have had a life of just owning up, telling the truth and pay for what you should as you go.

Not trying to judge, point fingers or anything else. I just believe we all should pay the price of whatever we are doing as we go, because....in the end you will pay that price one way or the other. And, as another poster mentioned, if you have enough "stuff" to worry about, get an umbrella policy...just don't skimp/lie on the declarations - it could cost you a fortune.

Edit: Not meant at your post particularly John, just the thought as you mention with a ? mark. Danny in the previous post had brought this point out as I recall.

[JRTJH]

Danny and Danny,

I didn't and don't consider your posts as being "aimed toward any person in particular". I suppose we're all speaking in generalities without pointing fingers. I agree with you Danny (sourdough) about trying to stay one step ahead of "bilking the system".... It seldom works, at least for me and I would rather just pay my share and keep moving forward.

Whether it's "fudging on towing overweight", making declarations about RV living arrangements or any host of other things that come to mind, seems easier to just fess up and do the right thing. Works for me, others may not agree, that's OK too......

[spade117]

I was asked about how much time I would spend in my trailer when getting insurance; I told them I had no idea; I would not, could not live in it full time but had ZERO idea how much I would use it but probably less than 6 mos. a year - honest, factual. They did, at that time, mention some sort of differences for a "full time" user - I wasn't concerned. They had some sort of pricing/exclusions if I recall based on the amount of usage - I don't care.



Years ago when I added my last trailer to our insurance, I don't recall being asked any questions about usage. They just wanted to know year, make, and model. Same deal when I switched to our current trailer earlier this year.

I'm guessing the state/region/weather where each person lives may change the info required.

[travelin texans]

I'm not saying I was trying to cheat the system, get out of paying what's owed or lying out anything as I've also learned those lessons long ago, but I've also learned to NEVER volunteer information in some of those situations, if asked a direct question I'll tell. The "extended vacation" comment was brought up, as I stated, by my agent not me. There's only one reason he brought it up, he was about to lose business/money as he stated they don't cover fulltime rvs.

[Thoth1987]

Hey all. Thanks again for all the advice. So far I have a water heater hose and the temp has not even gotten below 0 so all has been great. There was also a long delay in getting the trailer due to a leaking grey water tank that was replaced before delivery. I have a question about levelling it though. The levelling scissor jacks km the back and the motorized ones on the front do a great job but I need a slightly higher lift on the left side only. Should I get some wood under the left wheels to raise it or can the levelling jacks and feet raise it an inch or two without compromising their strength? The person who gave me the run down of the trailer at the lot was very specific saying the levelling jacks are not for lifting, only support. So does that mean an inch or two is out of the question or is he meaning don't try and lift the wheels off the ground?

[slow]

Anderson levellers under the low side tires is the easiest, especially if also using a LevelMatePRO. This all assumes you do not have auto level. If you do, you just need the wood blocks or the Anderson Levellers under the low tires.

[notanlines]

The scissors on the rear are for stabilization only. This is very important . If someone tells you otherwise they are WRONG. You are to level your rig with 1x or 2x under the appropriate side tires when you park it, side to side. Front to rear is done with the front legs.

[Thoth1987]

Haha, thanks again for the great info. I paid a tow company $158 to come and adjust the trailer for me. I was able to put about 4 pieces of treated ply boards under the left side and one under the right. It's excellently balanced now. I can lay in bed and not feel the blood rushing to my skull. I do have a level and noticed the largest slide-out I have[with a hid-a-bed and kitchen table(Now computer desk)] is I guess slightly dropped. Very little. I may just wait until the rain stops for a week or 2 and place some supports under the metal frame of it. So far the temp has gotten below 0 celcius. I've been keeping my furnace at 65-70 degrees farenheit and I've only used about half of one of my propane tanks. Fingers crossed for above 0 all season!