Need Help!!!

[Lisa B]

Have a 2014 Ford 250 6.7 diesel. Was seriously thinking about purchasing a Carbon 357 but have figured out its just too big for our truck. We cannot afford nor desire a bigger truck. Asking now about the 337. Its quite a bit smaller and less overall gross and hitch weight. Any feedback?

[wiredgeorge]

The human weight computers will be along soon. Go to your truck and write down everything on the plate on the door like the weight stuff. Then get the specs on the camper you are interested in; pin weight and gross weight, etc. The folks who work these numbers will be able to give you an idea if your truck is up to snuff. Also will want to know the axle ratio, bed length and what model F250... crew cab, regular cab and the like. It is a pretty complicated issue unless the truck is way insufficient for the towing and then a quicker answer will come. Good luck! You did good to ask before buying the trailer and NOT asking a salesman bwhahahaha

[JRTJH]

Have a 2014 Ford 250 6.7 diesel. Was seriously thinking about purchasing a Carbon 357 but have figured out its just too big for our truck. We cannot afford nor desire a bigger truck. Asking now about the 337. Its quite a bit smaller and less overall gross and hitch weight. Any feedback?

Assuming your truck is an XLT or more expensive and a SuperCab or CrewCab, your payload is somewhere between 1900-2300 pounds. This is due to the "GVW max" of 10,000 pounds for all F250 trucks. Some argue that is "documentary only" (paperwork) some say the F250 is really a F350 with a different sticker, some say.... <fill in the blank>...

That really doesn't make much difference if you're going to follow Ford's payload limitations. The empty 357 pin weight is 3060 and the 337 pin weight is 2755. Most people who own toyhaulers indicate that with the garage filled with their toys, they offset about 200-300 pounds of pin weight. Assuming you tow and load your trailer similar to their experiences, unless you travel alone (nothing/nobody in the truck cab and the bed empty) you're going to be "at or above" your F250 maximum payload and probably also at or above your maximum F250 GVW.

Now, if you ignore the F250 GVW and consider your truck is really a rebadged F350 in disguise.... Well.....:whistling:

[Lisa B]

we do have Ride Right airshocks in our 250. I just cant imagine this truck not being able to handle the 337. It weighs 11700 pounds and the hitch weight is 2755.
Direct from Ford Tech dept, the numbers are 15900 and 3250. So that looks like its well within the tolerable limits. I understand that adding a generator and hydraulics will increase the hitch weight, but with cargo in the rear garage that seems to me that it will take some of the load off the front end.

[sourdough]

Forget the "Ford tech dept." - they are clueless about your specific truck. Look at the placards inside the driver's door for the gawr of each axle, total gvwr and payload. THAT is what your truck weight limits will be, not generic numbers in a best case scenario. You can also forget the "max tow rating"; the other numbers will tell you what that will be and you will max out your payload and/or gawr before you ever get to that number in most cases, especially with a diesel 250. John has pretty much told you, optimistically, where you will probably end up. The Ride Right airshocks have no bearing on your weight limitations - they just help keep the load level....that's it.

[Lisa B]

Well they looked at the VIN number and got specific info about the truck. And John sent numbers that are in our wheel house, so not sure you what you mean

[Lisa B]

So are you saying the 337 is still too big? I understand your point, but I dont understand why I have seen so many 250s towing toy haulers like this and say they have no problems.

[rjrelander]

It weighs 11700 pounds and the hitch weight is 2755.

Dry Weight 11,925 lbs.
Payload Capacity 4,830 lbs.
GVWR 16,755 lbs.
Published Dry Hitch Weight (23%) 2,755 lbs.

Loaded Hitch Weight (23%) 3,850 lbs.

[John61CT]

Wow that's a heavy towball.

I'd move the axle forward if possible.

I shoot for 12% max, 8% ideally.

[rjrelander]

Carbon 337 is a 5th wheel toy hauler. It's usually 15% to 25% for fifth wheels and gooseneck trailers isn't it? Either way, just used 23% because that was what they used for the published dry hitch weight ... 2755 / 11925 = 23% ... using same percentage for (fully) loaded hitch weight is 16755 * 23% = 3850.

[Lisa B]

Well i appreciate all the feedback, but now we are totally confused. It seems like we get a different answer from every person we ask. The fact of the matter is we see 250s towing 5th wheel toy haulers all the time and cant figure out why this is so difficult to figure out.
Im to the point now where Im about to just say forget it!

[JRTJH]

Well i appreciate all the feedback, but now we are totally confused. It seems like we get a different answer from every person we ask. The fact of the matter is we see 250s towing 5th wheel toy haulers all the time and cant figure out why this is so difficult to figure out.Im to the point now where Im about to just say forget it!

The speed limit on M-32 from our house to Gaylord is 55MPH. The fact is that when driving that speed I get passed by everything from "grandma's in Escapes" to 18 wheelers in the left lane.... I can't figure out why they all are "OK driving faster than the speed limit"..... Same argument you're making. THAT STILL DON'T MAKE IT RIGHT FOR YOU TO IGNORE THE NUMBERS..... If you choose to do so, nobody here will stop you (physically) from buying or towing any trailer you choose. But, you did ask for "numbers to validate whether it's OK or not. The numbers, both from your truck's door post (not some VIN generated website) indicate the true capacity of your vehicle as Ford built it. The numbers from the Keystone website for both trailers that interest you give pin weights greater than Ford certified your truck to carry.

What you do with that information is entirely up to you. And, if you read the notice (actually a warning) on the RideRite Air Shocks installation instructions, it states that their product DOES NOT increase payload or GVW. YMMV

[ctbruce]

Lisa B and others, the link in this post below is a video about how all the weights work together and is excellent. It'll explain about what most critical numbers are and how they reduce some numbers given in the brochures. Well worth the watch. It is also put out by a group that is only interested in RV safety. Well worth the watch and eliminates gut feelings and opinions from decisions. After all, every ones safety is utmost on our minds. https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

[roadglide]

I have 2700 lb hitch weight toyhualer its over the yellow sticker 1200 lbs on the truck with a13 2500 duramax . The weak point was the 20 inch tires and springs . I went up to 3600 load range tires and 18 inch rims and installed air bags that along improved the performance and control of the 23300 lb rig. Even with my new 1 ton Denali very close to all the weights on the yellow tag but I'm over GCWR 23400 for the under rated GMC 1 ton combinations weight . I have a question say trailer weight is 16 k loaded the truck takes 25 percent I'm seeing axle weight on cat scale of 12 k lbs . How is the16 k lb trailer weight figured?

[Javi]

Lisa B...


Here's the deal...


There are rules, laws or customs in just about every state in the union and most likely throughout North America in total that limit an F250 to 10,000 pounds GVWR..


Now, if you are of majority age; you can choose to ignore those rules, laws or customs or not... That as an adult is solely your choice...


Just accept that eventually the law and/or fate may well choose to punish you for your choice to ignore..

[FlyingAroundRV]

Also, here's another consideration. If you choose to ignore the stickers based on the notion that "other people do it without any apparent problems" and, God forbid, you have an accident, the insurance company is going to tell you to "Take a hike".

[notanlines]

John, what is 8% ideally? Please don’t tell us pin weight of a fiver.

[Firewall]

Also, here's another consideration. If you choose to ignore the stickers based on the notion that "other people do it without any apparent problems" and, God forbid, you have an accident, the insurance company is going to tell you to "Take a hike".

What do you mean by this? They won't pay the claim or they won't renew?

[ctbruce]

What do you mean by this? They won't pay the claim or they won't renew?I think it would depend on the language in the insured's responsibility section of their contract. Could mean either, neither or both.

[JRTJH]

John, what is 8% ideally? Please don’t tell us pin weight of a fiver.

Huh ??? Which John are you asking about 8%??????

[Harleydodge]

Wow that's a heavy towball.

I'd move the axle forward if possible.

I shoot for 12% max, 8% ideally.

Huh ??? Which John are you asking about 8%??????


I believe, the other one :)

[John61CT]

Sorry did not realize 5th wheel.

(Little Roseanne Roseannadanna voice)

"Never mind!"

[emoji51]

[sourdough]

Well i appreciate all the feedback, but now we are totally confused. It seems like we get a different answer from every person we ask. The fact of the matter is we see 250s towing 5th wheel toy haulers all the time and cant figure out why this is so difficult to figure out.
Im to the point now where Im about to just say forget it!


Lisa, I think everyone with knowledge and experience is telling you the same thing. Your door stickers will verify that. As JRTJH (John) said, no one is going to make you do anything. And yes, there are lots of folks pulling all kinds of things that they shouldn't. Does that make them smart? No. Does it make them safe? No. Are they doing it out of ignorance or just a lack of concern for themselves, their family and others? I have not a clue - probably some of both and more of the latter than we would like to think.

Back in the day, 35+ years ago, I took a little Ford Ranger to load firewood into a 16' boxed edge trailer. Everybody pulled anything with whatever they had back then..."they" all did it - if you had a receiver and it could make it roll....you were good to go.

Finished cutting a nice load of pinon pine and quit about dark. Started on the trip back home (about 4 hours) and headed down the little narrow winding road (asphalt) down the side of the mountain. Straight up rocks on one side and straight down a few hundred feet on the other (back then no guard rails - and still aren't thankfully - ruins the road to me). The front end of the pickup felt light, headlights pointing up but hey, everyone else did it, right? As I came to the steepest, twistiest, baddest part of the road I hit some bumps in the road; going down a very steep incline with a sharp turn in front of me. My front tires left the road and left me unable to turn the truck. I was hitting the brakes and fortunately it got my nose down enough (on multiple drops) to keep me from going over the edge and I got stopped. Re-loaded the wood for better weight distribution and drove very slowly back home.

What does that have to do with your scenario? You will be in the same situation....knowingly. The problem is, all those folks roaring down the highway with that 250 pulling a 16k trailer at 80mph will get by with it....until. Tire blows; emergency stop; kid steps in front of you; car pulls out; bicyclist fails to yield, etc. etc. etc. Whatever it is will happen without warning. When it does, and something bad happens, and you are over your weight limits, there is a very real possibility that 1) you will not be able to take the evasive maneuvers you should be able to due to being overweight and 2) when the dust clears you will be the one charged for the accident - sort of like the guy that gets hit in the rear because he backed out like a jet - but you will get the ticket

Long post but you need to really think about what you are doing on this.

[John61CT]

Best policy for safety is to use a big enough truck so you don't even come close to 80% of its rating, fully loaded wet.

[flybouy]

Years ago my brother in law bought 7 acres of land and built a house. He asked to borrow my utility trailer with a 1,500 lb. axle. The trailer is 4 x8 and I have 3' rails. The tongue has a pin so when your hitched you can pull the pin and the bed will tilt back so you can drive a bike or lawn tractor onto it. Any way, I go to visit and there's my trailer with about 3 tons (guessing) of sand in it. So I hitched up, dumped the sand on his driveway and left. Point is, because people do it doesn't make it right. Some very knowledgeable and experienced folks have given you sound advice IMHO. What you do with it is your choice.

[FlyingAroundRV]

What do you mean by this? They won't pay the claim or they won't renew?
Possibly both. If you have a major accident, the first thing an insurance company will do is dispatch a loss adjuster. They will go over all the details with a fine tooth comb looking for ways to minimise or reject the claim. In the case of a standard car accident, it's pretty cut and dried. Add in an RV and its contents and it's a whole new ball game.
If the insurance company finds that the TV was overloaded, they'll try to pin the cause of the accident on that.
Insurance companies exist to make a profit, regardless of what they say on their "friendly" TV ads.

[flybouy]

]I had insurance with Liberty Mutual for over 20 years without a claim. Then our oldest driver had an accident when she was driving during her second year of licensure. Police said it was her fault. Went to traffic court and she was found not guilty of the ticket. LM doubled our rate. When we switched insurance and went to State Farm they looked up the info and found that LM fought the other person's insurance company, found our daughter not at fault, and was reimbursed the money they paid out. We called them several times after that decision date and they refused to lower the rates. That's the back story.
When we were shopping for insurance we investigated many companies and several policy offering had some interesting "outs". Three of the most devious in my thinking was the "miss-use" of the vehicle (read overload) , "The criminal use" (read speeding", and the "altering the vehicle" (read suspension/hitch alterations). Phone calls were made and every response on these clauses were something like "well yes we can deny a claim for those exclusions but trust us, we don't do that VERY OFTEN.
Bottom line know what your signing, as Reagan said "Trust but verify".

[chuckster57]

“Trust but verify” wasn’t that agent Mulder?

[Brentw]

Lisa B and others, the link in this post below is a video about how all the weights work together and is excellent. It'll explain about what most critical numbers are and how they reduce some numbers given in the brochures. Well worth the watch. It is also put out by a group that is only interested in RV safety. Well worth the watch and eliminates gut feelings and opinions from decisions. After all, every ones safety is utmost on our minds. https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

That is probably one the best overall explanations out there, it will require you to do a bit of work gathering your info, but you will thoroughly know and understand where you are at.
Over loaded, his data says over 50% are, suspect that may be a bit higher. But just cuz others are doing it, don't make it right ( guilty here on occasions too).
Lisa B, I think we are all glad you asked and hopefully you have gotten enough direction to make an informed decision.

[glendar10]

Have a 2014 Ford 250 6.7 diesel. Was seriously thinking about purchasing a Carbon 357 but have figured out its just too big for our truck. We cannot afford nor desire a bigger truck. Asking now about the 337. Its quite a bit smaller and less overall gross and hitch weight. Any feedback?

Check you tire sticker bet you are lower payload with them as it tells you your payload with that size tire.

[CaptnJohn]

"Originally Posted by Lisa B
Have a 2014 Ford 250 6.7 diesel. Was seriously thinking about purchasing a Carbon 357 but have figured out its just too big for our truck. We cannot afford nor desire a bigger truck. Asking now about the 337. Its quite a bit smaller and less overall gross and hitch weight. Any feedback?"

Too heavy for any 3/4 ton truck. A lot of nice people took a lot of time and went into detail BUT it still comes to either too much trailer or too little truck.

[Leencharlotte]

250 vs 350 is 2 items. 350 has amthe extra leaf spring and a 7k axle and 250 has 6k axle (rear). Best to weigh truck axles and see bow much room truly have

Yes 250 will tow it, seen many towing triple axles, o would t but have seen. I have 350 srw with a fuzion 369. Yes it holds and tows but damn would prefer dually

[Fishsizzle]

Uggg sorry, I feel your pain. I’ve been “educated” the hard way on here on weights and trucks.

Yes, your truck will pull it. Is it legal, no, is it safe? marginal.

I’m saving for a Dually as my F250 is suspect on pin weight. The manuals lie. The tow guides lie. It’s all about the dang yellow sticker in the door jamb.

I still tow my 5th wheel. It does the job fine, but safe both legal and piece of mind, get the biggest truck you can.

[Irv gates]

I have had pin weights on trucks from 1500 to over 2000 lbs. I have gone from F250,s to 1 ton SRW to 1 ton DRW. I personally with a pin weight of over 2000 lbs would be hauling with at least a 1 ton DRW truck. Its a safety issue and a control issue when Iam on the road pulling. Sorry ,but after towing for 32 years ,this is the way I feel. Happy trails

[Stircrazy]

we do have Ride Right airshocks in our 250. I just cant imagine this truck not being able to handle the 337. It weighs 11700 pounds and the hitch weight is 2755.
Direct from Ford Tech dept, the numbers are 15900 and 3250. So that looks like its well within the tolerable limits. I understand that adding a generator and hydraulics will increase the hitch weight, but with cargo in the rear garage that seems to me that it will take some of the load off the front end.


take the truck with a full tank of gas and all the people that are normally in it when you are going to go camping. go to a scale and get your front axel and rear axel weights . add the numbers and subtract them from your max gvw and that will tell you how much payload you have left for trailer hitch weight. when they say 3200 that is bare, now you have to subtract the weight of the people, the gas and everything else you put in the truck.. oh and about 200 lbs for a 5th wheel hitch.

Steve

[sourdough]

take the truck with a full tank of gas and all the people that are normally in it when you are going to go camping. go to a scale and get your front axel and rear axel weights . add the numbers and subtract them from your max gvw and that will tell you how much payload you have left for trailer hitch weight. when they say 3200 that is bare, now you have to subtract the weight of the people, the gas and everything else you put in the truck.. oh and about 200 lbs for a 5th wheel hitch.

Steve


The method above will give you a starting point. The legal, stickered payload will probably be less than what you come up with using the above method.

[brodiegg]

Understand, it was complicated when last year i purchased a coach that everyone said my Ram 1500 could tow. Just look at the driver side door jam and see the payload of your truck. then add the tongue weight, passenger weight and the rest of the stuff and you will see if you can safely tow your coach

[K_N_L]

Also, here's another consideration. If you choose to ignore the stickers based on the notion that "other people do it without any apparent problems" and, God forbid, you have an accident, the insurance company is going to tell you to "Take a hike".

And this is why after towing twice with a GMC 2500 (with air bags) we traded over to a dually. The 2500 towed okay but fully loaded up we were at 11,400 on the truck, no margin for safety on the tires/ rims.

Should I not stop in time and rear end someone while towing, I didnt want to be held liable for being overloaded, nor risk the safety of others due to equipment failure.

[rhagfo]

Have a 2014 Ford 250 6.7 diesel. Was seriously thinking about purchasing a Carbon 357 but have figured out its just too big for our truck. We cannot afford nor desire a bigger truck. Asking now about the 337. Its quite a bit smaller and less overall gross and hitch weight. Any feedback?

Well have read all the post on this and will add my two cents worth. I will point out with my 2001 I am not within GVWR, but within rear GAWR and most important well within tire ratings.

First of all as stated the MAX trailer weight is based on a bare bones TV, so if you have regular cab with crank windows and no air that might work. That also goes for payload.

Now to the two TH's in question.

Key specifications - 357 TOY HAULER

Shipping Weight 12,842#

Carrying Capacity 4,158#

Hitch 3,060#

GVWR 17,000#

Key specifications - 337 TOY HAULER

Shipping Weight 11,710#

Carrying Capacity 5,045#

Hitch 2,755#

GVWR 16,755#

So you have about a 1,000# shipping weight on the smaller unit, and it also has about 1,000# larger payload. Now the question becomes, How much do your toys weigh?
Even if your toys are about 3,000#, and other stuff is 1,000# you are at near 16,000# GVW for the smaller 5er, to me that is DRW territory. It would likely also place you over the tire rating on the F250, unless you have over sized tires.

I stated at the beginning I stated I am over my GVWR, but under axle and tire ratings, not good but better than what I see where you will be at.
I will add we are looking to upgrade our TV, and it will be a DRW.
You have two choices as I see it look for a lighter TH, we are talking less than 13,000# GVWR, at that weight you will still likely be over GVWR by a bit, but still under axle and tire ratings. The decision as pointed out by many is your choice as an adult.
Keep in mind that in all reality about the only differences between a F250 and F350 SRW is an extra spring leaf in the rear and higher capacity tires, and the higher GVWR on the VIN.

ON EDIT: I only listed on item above the second is to get a 350/3500 DRW, this is what my DD did to haul her four horse GN trailer.

[John61CT]

Which of course can make all the difference.

Especially legally if you ever need to argue with insurance adjusters.

[Tinner12002]

Dry Weight 11,925 lbs.
Payload Capacity 4,830 lbs.
GVWR 16,755 lbs.
Published Dry Hitch Weight (23%) 2,755 lbs.

Loaded Hitch Weight (23%) 3,850 lbs.

On my truck, the listed pin weight was nearly right on with the hauler loaded to near max so I would think that would be typical across Keystones products. So with the 16,755lbs the pin would be right around that 2755lb figure though it could vary a few pounds.