View Full Version : Halfton or Mid
7Iron
11-08-2018, 09:19 AM
We are upgrading to a 5er from TT which will require an upgrade in TV (currently 1500 GMC gas w/ 1767 cargo)....
We will purchase the TV first and then the 5er. So I am currently looking at about 15 (2014-16) used GMCs both 2500 and 3500 gas and diesel. However the selection of TV will be heavily influenced by the probable size/wt of 5er.
There are some very good buys in the Gas 2wd that would be very suitable for the 1/2 tons, but are marginal at best pulling a mid Cougar.
The Half Ton Cougars floor plans are very attractive, but what I have read is the "quality" is not as good. I know that the term quality is a very "fat" word with too many meanings.....ranging from thinner structural members to smaller refrigerators.
Our plan is a minimum of 6+ months on the road with one adult son.
Would love to hear your thoughts wrt to the 1/2 tons vs mids
BTW we need a bunk -- an outside kitchen and 1/2 bath is a real plus/ideal
flybouy
11-08-2018, 09:31 AM
My only advice is this, GO LARGER than you think will need to "do the job". Plan on excess capacity to give you a margin of safety. Don't rely on the trailer sticker empty weight and do rely on the yellow sticker on the truck door for capacity. Go diesel if possible. This will spur many debates but the pure fact is you can't beat the torque that a diesel provides and it's the torque that provides the pulling power not the horse power. JMHO
Slapshoot
11-08-2018, 10:25 AM
Yikes....I was wondering why you wanted to buy your television (TV) before you bought your RV. Grey haired moment lol.
Northofu1
11-08-2018, 10:37 AM
Whatever TV or 5er you buy, I wish I'd have known about this prior to purchasing my TV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFLOBrADBs
Good luck on your purchases. :)
JRTJH
11-08-2018, 10:49 AM
Spend a few minutes in the bedroom of a Cougar Half Ton before you commit to buy anything.... If you're OK stooping to get into bed, bending over to get to the side of the bed and only having about 12" at the foot of the bed where you can actually stand up, then the Half Ton may be OK for your use. If you're planning to be in the trailer for prolonged vacations, winters away from home, or use for more than a few days at a time, you may find the bedroom "headroom" is a frustrating problem......
Check it out carefully, compare the two for "bedroom livability" before you make any final decisions. I don't know of any "XLite" or "lightweight" fifth wheel models that do have over 6' of headroom around the bed. If standing up when you make the bed is important, if walking around the bed is important, then do some serious looking before you commit.
From my experience...
As far as a 5th wheel goes... Look for one with a 12” drop frame because it will maximize the basement storage.. My 333MKS Cougar is everything we could want in a 5th wheel... except the light weight frame, minimal storage in the basement, 5200 lb axles with associated light weight wheels and tires.
The fixtures inside are nice but laminated particle board with very little REAL wood.. A/C isn't race track duct-ed to the front A/C and neither are quiet.. Wheels are forward of center a good bit in order to reduce pin weight but that results in a lot of rear overhang and the bumper drags going in and out of any low spot.. The convenience center is pretty much a joke with minimum connections... The dump valves are in a drop box under the basement floor but only two the gray water and the black tank, the galley tank valve is facing inside, three feet from the wall...up under the trailer between the slide and the 3” sewer connection...
The steps are standard and nothing really wrong with them but you can't open the door fully or you'll hit the awning so the have a stop rigged up to prevent the door from swinging fully open..
I could go on.. but I think you'll get my point..
The 333MKS Cougar was not a ½ ton.. but it sure ain't a heavy duty full time trailer...
notanlines
11-08-2018, 11:37 AM
I'm afraid you are getting the cart before the horse with your purchases. I read about y'all picking out the truck to fit the size of the RV you might buy. Buy the RV FIRST, making absolutely sure that it is the one that will satisfy the two of you for years and years. :hide:
THEN head to your friendly TV dealer with the knowledge intact of your needs. Members post on here all the time with stories of their great find in a two-year old 3/4 ton, immaculate, big diesel and every option known to modern man/woman. Sales person said it will pull Vermont all the way to Delaware.
Then when you and Momma find a nice late-model Montana, 41 feet long and all the bells and whistles you look at the little yellow tag and find out your cargo capacity is about the size of a month's worth of groceries.
Believe me, buy the RV FIRST.
JRTJH
11-08-2018, 11:40 AM
I agree with Jim's concept, even if the actual "contract signing" is not in that same sequence.
Find the RV you want, then go find the TV that works with it. DON'T BUY THE TRUCK FIRST, then fall in love with a "too big" fifth wheel....
Frank G
11-08-2018, 11:49 AM
RV first! If you are living in it 6+ months consider a unit rated for full time living, like a Montana. Our Laredo is OK for the 2 of us and we are both under 5ft6, it is a mid profile.
It is going to be hard to find a livable bunk house under 14K gross, this puts you in dually territory.
You failed to mention how many destinations and miles are planned in the 6month time span, also the type of destinations, It will make a difference in the selection of both units.
sourdough
11-08-2018, 12:37 PM
It is redundant but pick the RV first. Way too many pitfalls doing it the other way. And look thru the units closely. As has been pointed out, there are a number of things that you may or may not like if going with a "1/2 ton" or extra light.
7Iron
11-08-2018, 04:14 PM
Wieght and Balance:
Northofu1: got your concern covered....I am even modeling how much of the 5er's cargo gets transferred to the TV (some say 40-60%--TV payload is the controlling weight )....that isn't even addressed in the video, btw I subscribed to KDD as well as 5 other RV Vlogs...Love Ray @ LoveYourRV and the LoLoHo folks from AL are super.
Flybouy: you are the man, GO Larger!! My weight and balance spreadsheet targets min 12.5% and I am getting to conservative above 15% . Our current cargo has stabilized at 1640lbs (I never carry water--not even in my hot water heater) and I am planning for 1800 . I know you are spot on wrt to diesel/torque and I am pretty sure that I will get to that answer. But what you may find surprising is that the payload (controlling weight) in 2500HD is significantly reduced w/diesel especially on the higher end LTZ/Denali (12-24% less payload)
1/2 vs Mid
JRTJH: My son is 6'4, DW 5'9 me 6'1-thanks
Javi: I am not yet sure what 12" df is, but I will find out...the volume/ease of storage is just as important as the 1800#--great heads up!
Are the AC quieter in the Mids?...all of your points were awesome, thank you
You both have provided exactly what I was looking for.....it wont be a 1/2tonner!!
TV or 5er First
Yes, we will have down selected the 5er (maybe 2 max of 3 choices) and will buy a TV to fit but before purchasing the 5er. Frank G , you are scaring me...my son may not be as comfortable as his parents!! most of the 5ers on our list are 14k GVWR'd. and your q wrt to miles/stops has not been well thought out ....thank you again.....but my seat of the pants: 4000-5000 miles 40-60 stops?? your thoughts? Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!! Our notion is two loops: an Eastern and Western. Beginning and ending here in Mobile AL and obviously the W loop will be the most miles....shorter stays/more stops?? (and it may be here that my 1800 5er cargo target will be violated...if BLM is a destination, water will be required??
Thanks to all and Slapshoot it is easier to count my non-grey haired moments.....
Any additional (even minor/insignificant) thoughts are welcome and wanted!!
Firewall
11-08-2018, 04:18 PM
We recently purchased a Cougar 368MBI, 41' loaded trailer weight just shy of 14K. When we bought it we owned a Chevy 2500HD that had a decent payload capacity of 2850lbs. The truck towed it, power was adequate but I would not go more than 100 miles from home, we knew we needed a bigger truck.
Fast forward to today, brought home a Ram 3500HD with a Hemi 6.4L and 4.10 rear end. The yellow sticker payload is 4323lbs, plenty for our Cougar. Moral of the story, buy the 5th wheel you desire, then get the truck! Good luck!
Frank G
11-08-2018, 06:56 PM
Choosing a RV and TV to tour the USA is a lot different than choosing a destination set-up. Those that have done this can help you more than I can. From what I understand there isn't a campsite within Yellowstone that could hold my rig. :popcorn:
Me and the wife talked about a western USA tour and our first thought was to get a small (to us) tow behind (Airstream) for the trip. Fill the back of the truck with a generator, solar panels, tools, jack and all the other non essentials. Yes, I think boondocking at times will be required. The wife has never learned the art of Navy showers.
Canonman
11-08-2018, 08:34 PM
Here is a video that may help with questions about the differences in fifth wheel configurations. The guy that does these has a ton of videos and most are really helpful regarding matching the right 5er to the right truck.
At a minimum, he's at least honest and IMHO unbiased.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6nlnInrxgg&index=10&list=PLWLhJvAapXvhv5PpZDHNkjWZ5EqZ8FFne
Northofu1
11-09-2018, 04:33 AM
"TV or 5er First
Yes, we will have down selected the 5er (maybe 2 max of 3 choices) and will buy a TV to fit but before purchasing the 5er. Frank G , you are scaring me...my son may not be as comfortable as his parents!! most of the 5ers on our list are 14k GVWR'd. and your q wrt to miles/stops has not been well thought out ....thank you again.....but my seat of the pants: 4000-5000 miles 40-60 stops?? your thoughts? Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!! Our notion is two loops: an Eastern and Western. Beginning and ending here in Mobile AL and obviously the W loop will be the most miles....shorter stays/more stops?? (and it may be here that my 1800 5er cargo target will be violated...if BLM is a destination, water will be required??
Thanks to all and Slapshoot it is easier to count my non-grey haired moments....." QUOTE FROM PREVIOUS 7IRON POST *
We did a small (16 day, 8000 km) tour of eastern Canada, it was my first big trip. two nights here and there left no time to intimately tour the surrounding areas and site see. yes we saw lot, it was hectic and I am changing my strategy for this summer. I used Walmart's for travel days to cover significant km's. That part I liked, didn't even open slides, slept, up, and gone.
rhagfo
11-09-2018, 05:21 AM
Well the advice to choose the 5er first is correct, but you can buy your TV first. If you choose to buy the TV first simply buy a 3500 DRW Diesel, that will solve the issue for any Keystone Cougar.
The other piece of advice quit looking at 250/2500's, it is near impossible to tow a 5er of any size within GVWR, I know that for a fact.
rhagfo
11-09-2018, 05:44 AM
7Iron, this is part of an earlier reply you posted.
Flybouy: you are the man, GO Larger!! My weight and balance spreadsheet targets min 12.5% and I am getting to conservative above 15% . Our current cargo has stabilized at 1640lbs (I never carry water--not even in my hot water heater) and I am planning for 1800 . I know you are spot on wrt to diesel/torque and I am pretty sure that I will get to that answer. But what you may find surprising is that the payload (controlling weight) in 2500HD is significantly reduced w/diesel especially on the higher end LTZ/Denali (12-24% less payload).
Well there are some things you can't control, we have traveled a couple times with most tanks full. This was due to no dump facility at an equestrian event, and the nearest dump being 20 miles the wrong way. So over the Cascades we went with full tanks. My point have enough TV to be able to travel FULL.
Please just stop looking at 2500's, just look at 3500's both SRW and DRW.
flybouy
11-09-2018, 06:12 AM
[QUOTE=Northofu1;314733]"TV or 5er First
Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!!
If your primary focus is staying in state & Federal parke you may want to investigate max size for those parks. From what I've read most will only take a 27' unit. I don't have personal experience so maybe someone who does will chime in.
travelin texans
11-09-2018, 07:30 AM
[QUOTE=Northofu1;314733]"TV or 5er First
Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!!
If your primary focus is staying in state & Federal parke you may want to investigate max size for those parks. From what I've read most will only take a 27' unit. I don't have personal experience so maybe someone who does will chime in.
If youre looking to do mostly state/national parks then this is correct. You'll need a 25 to 30' TT with a short truck to stay at most of those parks as they have length limits & although not posted or mentioned they definitely have height limits as well & trimming a branch or 2 is absolutely not allowed, tight turns & small sites are the norm at most. Some will tell you they have big rig sites, the problem being is getting to them due to those tight turns & low trees or their idea of a big rig is not the big rig you have.
Now if you're fulltiming you'll tire quickly of state parks with no/limited hookups & will be looking more at resort type parks with all the goodies, activities & swimming pools/hot tubs, plus the social atmosphere is a great part of the lifestyle.
When buying the tow vebicle, minimum of a 3500 diesel (some will mention F350, not me), they cost, ride & look like the 2500 (again maybe F250) so start big & have one less thing to think about.
Remember the "dry weight" of the rv & the "max tow weight" of the tv mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to you, you are only interested in GVWs, payload & pin weights.
spade117
11-09-2018, 08:14 AM
Remember the "dry weight" of the rv & the "max tow weight" of the tv mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to you, you are only interested in GVWs, payload & pin weights.
And remember that listed pin weights aren't really useable either as they are typically based on the dry weight of the trailer.
7Iron
11-10-2018, 12:43 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bbdzjfprcgm2uuq/14k%205er%20and%202500_3500%20table.png?dl=0
edit: I added a link to the numbers table pic....but it doesn't show??
The data supports what most of you know....with a 14k 5er you need a 3500, but with a 2wd CB, SB 2500 Diesel, the only hit to the numbers is the TV cargo.
with 560 pounds of human, 180 hitch receiver, 165 fuel, and 50 for coffee mugs,iPhones, newspapers , laptop, etc , we would be about 800 lbs over the max cargo of 2872 (the max is never found because of TV options) my guess real cargo for a LTZ is 2300 ish....and that would now move 800 to almost a ton over cargo...
Where to find a 2014-2016 3500 2wd CB SB SRW 3500 that will give a whole 325 lbs of TV cargo RESERVE....(3.5K reserve in GCW...who cares)
Maybe a SMALLER 5er or just stay with my 26ft TT
7Iron
11-10-2018, 12:49 PM
hope the table shows up
JRTJH
11-10-2018, 01:22 PM
hope the table shows up
The table is visible, but I question the validity of the curb weight section. In that line, the "average added weight for "similar trucks" between 2WD and 4WD is around 350 pounds, but in the last two columns, the difference between the gas 2WD and gas 4WD is over 700 pounds. I didn't calculate or verify all of the data, but that stands out as a significant difference that isn't explained, at least by the information that's available in your post.
Most 4WD models are around 400-500 pounds heavier than their 2WD similar models, so I don't question most of the numbers, but that one example stands out as a question, at least to me.
rhagfo
11-10-2018, 02:35 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bbdzjfprcgm2uuq/14k%205er%20and%202500_3500%20table.png?dl=0
edit: I added a link to the numbers table pic....but it doesn't show??
The data supports what most of you know....with a 14k 5er you need a 3500, but with a 2wd CB, SB 2500 Diesel, the only hit to the numbers is the TV cargo.
with 560 pounds of human, 180 hitch receiver, 165 fuel, and 50 for coffee mugs,iPhones, newspapers , laptop, etc , we would be about 800 lbs over the max cargo of 2872 (the max is never found because of TV options) my guess real cargo for a LTZ is 2300 ish....and that would now move 800 to almost a ton over cargo...
Where to find a 2014-2016 3500 2wd CB SB SRW 3500 that will give a whole 325 lbs of TV cargo RESERVE....(3.5K reserve in GCW...who cares)
Maybe a SMALLER 5er or just stay with my 26ft TT
:banghead:
Why start out with that tight of margin if buying a new TV???
I currently carry/tow well over payload with a 2001 Ram 2500, while the TV does this very well, we are looking at a new TV, I am only looking at DRW! I just don’t want to worry about payload in the future!
Our 5er weighs in at 12,500# with a 2,600# pin. If we choose to go bigger I don’t want to replace the TV again.
Snoking
11-10-2018, 02:58 PM
OK, you want to see the country in a truck and 5th wheel with three people. Starting point is a crew cab truck, or some one(s) is/are going to get pretty tired of the extended cab back seat.
As many are saying, forget 250/2500's and look at 350/3500's.
Few bunkhouse trailers are have bunks made for tall adults.
Unless your adult son has special needs, why is he not getting his own little super B or such to tag along.
For all to go in the same rig, a toyhauler might allow the privacy you and your DW, and your adult son all need.
Your whole plan is nothing that I would want to attempt.
Being on the road for 6 months and traveling lightly loaded are more or less not attainable.
A trailer that would provide comfortable living for 3 people for 6 months is going to be pushing 40' and require a dually to tow it.
You could consider filming your experience and creating a movie to compete with RV and Long Long Trailer.
Keep posting and lets us know how this all works out.
7Iron
11-10-2018, 04:07 PM
The table is visible, but I question the validity of the curb weight section. I don't question most of the numbers, but that one example stands out as a question, at least to me.
The Curb wt is a calculated number as the GMC brochure does not provide. It gives the "GVWR" (the total you can have) and the "Max Payload" (cargo) so the Curb Wt in the table is GVWR minus the cargo.
I think a chunk (if not all ) is marketing....look at the GVWR for the 3500 (from the brochure) and the Max Cargo (payload) from the brochure....which is the source of your question.....IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE....for some reason in the gas verison the GVWR is 300 lbs more for 4WD and the max cargo is the same. I think since they build and try to sell mor 4WD they jack up the GVWR to prevent the max payload from being reduced...
What hurts my head even more is the 5er trailer wts (from brochure) I have added the ratio of trailer wt to GCWR...55% to 70....I am not smart enough to solve that mystery[marketing??]
BTW the black numbers are calculated and blue are from the brochure
7Iron
11-10-2018, 04:24 PM
Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!
Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.
One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.
Snoking
11-10-2018, 04:27 PM
Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!
Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.
One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.
Our 39' 4" Big Horn has 3K of carrying capacity and we used up almost all of it. Chris
JRTJH
11-10-2018, 05:04 PM
7iron,
Once you start "living on the road" you'll soon find that all the things you had at home won't fit, but many of them are "absolutely necessary" even if you aren't at home. Things like an air compressor, a tool box, extra rope, a couple of extension cords, then the adapters for electrical connections for different parks, that 50 amp extension cord.... Oh, don't forget the multimeter, or the roll of electrical tape, and don't forget the Teflon tape (yellow and white) for gas and water lines, then add the wrench to undo the anode rod in the water heater, and there's the grease gun to lube the landing gear and the extra tube of grease for when the one in the gun is empty.....
You'll be amazed at how things accumulate when full timing. Things that you either have to throw away and buy again or simply "add to the pile".... 1800 pounds is "about right for a weekend, a week's vacation or maybe a month long jaunt" but nowhere near what you'll have onboard when you start full timing.
Snoking
11-10-2018, 05:16 PM
Don't forget the cordless drill, impact driver, and charger. Box of drill bits and driver bits. Always trying to run with empty tanks sometimes just does not work. We carry a Honda eu2000i generator and a little extra fuel for it. A 10 pound/2 gal propane tank for the BBQ. Then there is clothes for more than one season. Depending of the trailer, one may have to have a tub of blocks or those yellow plastic ones.
Oh and a 4T+ hydraulic jack. Torque wrench. Spare fuel filters if it is a diesel. On and on. Chris
JRTJH
11-10-2018, 05:54 PM
We were in Memphis at a campground a couple weeks ago. There was a fifth wheel parked a few sites from us that also was triple towing. We had the Slingshot on a trailer behind our fifth wheel. He had a 6x12 boxed utility trailer. One afternoon they were rearranging the trailer. It was full of totes and there were two "clothes rods" along the back. It appeared to me that much of their "seasonal clothing and gear" was stored in that trailer and they simply changed out the closets in the fifth wheel depending on the season.
I suppose, if you've "got to take it all with you" that you'll either find a place to store what you "have to have" or if you want a little "luxury of extra stuff" that you'll find a way to take it with you if you don't have a place to "return for re-equipping".... They chose to simply take it all with them "all the time"....
cookinwitdiesel
11-10-2018, 09:13 PM
Get the 3500. No questions asked it is needed for a good 5er experience. I went through a similar exercise as you earlier this year. I read the GMC brochure, did all my homework, settled on a Sierra 2500HD Denali Diesel - since I was looking at TTs only I had talked myself out of a 3500. Beautiful truck for sure. Once I had it and my trailer I started doing my (late) research to make sure everything is "in spec" when looking at axles, tires, GVWRs, etc.
As noted on the GMC website, my TV should have 2513# of payload right? SURPRISE!!!! It actually has 2144# per the sticker (all those Denali niceties came at a steep weight cost). Those last few hundred pounds were a rough blow. I have a min packaged Denali too, sun roof? Take off a couple hundred more, dual alternators? There goes more. And so on. I also got a nice bed lid since I have a bumper pull, that is another 100# as well. It chips away so fast it is SCARY. I Pretty much immediately regretted not getting a 3500 but there is no point in trying to trade in a brand new truck - I would be throwing away $7-10k instantly which is just not wise. May as well drive it a few years before getting a bigger trailer and just upgrade both then. By the way, 5ers are pretty much OUT OF THE QUESTION if you want to stay in spec with my truck. That is, any of them - unless freakishly low Pin weight for some reason which will come with other compromises in trailer quality/size/layout as noted.
Here is the sticker for my truck (same as in my sig) as well as the spreadsheet I had made for my own shopping comparison purposes. The 3rd pic shows some of the more detailed specs I got after doing my LATE research into the differences between the models (next post since I couldn't add it through an edit). It is MORE than just different springs and badging. Note the different axle ratings between the 2500 and 3500 SRW models.
The 3500 will cost about the same, the drive will be pretty much indistinguishable, but it will be the right truck. When looking at trucks, like, the physical one you would buy, be sure to check the sticker to see what that specific machines payload rating is - do not just rely on the online specs and get surprised like I did.
I hope this helps you make a well informed decision!
cookinwitdiesel
11-10-2018, 09:20 PM
Here is 3rd pic.
Snoking
11-11-2018, 05:06 AM
Towing a 5th wheel trailer is all about rear axle weight carrying capacity. The physical 5th wheel hitch mounted in the bed and most stuff carried in the bed place weight mostly on the rear axle, add to the that the pin weight of the 5th wheel trailer again mostly on the rear axle, and that is the rating that one has to really watch carefully. Chris
Northofu1
11-11-2018, 05:37 AM
Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!
Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.
One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.
I would join and watch that Vlog.:)
Northofu1
11-11-2018, 05:40 AM
Don't forget the cordless drill, impact driver, and charger. Box of drill bits and driver bits. Always trying to run with empty tanks sometimes just does not work. We carry a Honda eu2000i generator and a little extra fuel for it. A 10 pound/2 gal propane tank for the BBQ. Then there is clothes for more than one season. Depending of the trailer, one may have to have a tub of blocks or those yellow plastic ones.
Oh and a 4T+ hydraulic jack. Torque wrench. Spare fuel filters if it is a diesel. On and on. Chris
LOL I took that on a 2 week trip :ermm:
Frederick
11-11-2018, 05:48 AM
I agree with the guy telling you to go larger TV is a F-350 6.7 D and I love it came with tow package er package and camper package everything you need to pull anything
Snoking
11-11-2018, 06:13 AM
LOL I took that on a 2 week trip :ermm:
Hey, I have seen specs on many 40' + 5th wheels with only 2K of carrying capacity. No way is that going to work for expended living in those units.
Two 7K axles just does not cut it with these larger units along with 16" LRG tires. All of the Montana's still list ST235/80R16G tires. Not one has 17.5" wheels and tires listed as standard.
Trailers all seem to be getting larger and the manufacturers have lagged between on the running gear under them. Chris
rhagfo
11-11-2018, 06:22 AM
Rhago....will not start out with tight margin.....but will not buy a DRW....so it is less 5er!
Snoking: the table is only CBs, you are spot on! should have been more clear, if it is a 14K 5er must be a 3500. Yes our son is special. Not sure what your definition of lightly loaded is ; 1800 lbs of real 5er cargo is not light to me. Before I retired I thought my 4.4k sq st house was just the right size....now I am very comfortable in 2.8k sq ft home. I hope you will be the first to sign on to our Vlog.
One option is flying and staying in more comfort at hotels.
Don't rule out a DRW, I know all the reasons too big, won't fit in the garage, parking.....
I convinced my DD who also drives a VW Jetta to get a 2004 Ram 3500 DRW. She doesn't have any issues driving it be it city streets or country road, you will get use to the "Hips" very soon. Rams after 2013 have a GVWR of 14,000# so really no payload issues. Also Ram SRW 3500 can have as much as 4,000#+ of payload which is more than GM or Ford.
Got a good laugh out of a salesman the other day. Took a 2012 Ram DRW for a test drive, the drive took us over a bridge (one way two lane) that the rail is right at the edge of the lane (passenger side), been over it before with my 2500 and 5er, and never crowd the center line. Drove that DRW right down the center of the lane, and the salesman was looking in the mirror! I looked at him and said, I had about a foot to foot and a half correct? His response was yeesss? :eek:
7Iron
11-11-2018, 06:45 AM
John and Chris,
It has always been my style to seek out experts/experienced folks and suck them for all info/data that I can get..... to hear and to listen.
Thank you !!
Bottom line I cant/wont ignore the compelling/clear msg:
that "living" RVing has a different/additional set of cargo requirements.
(I wont ignore until I understand it and disagree)
I will re-ponder my load-out manifest as our RVing has only been 10 days or less. I have a load out listing that I made when we first purchased our TT, I am going to find it and hopefully ya'll can give me a heads up on what I haven't allowed/planned for.
What is a little a perplexing to me; is that there only 2 items you mentioned (including the tape and multimeter) that I do not carry in my current 1640 ---the genset and grease gun.
jeez, we have two bird feeders and seed...,long handled RV cleaning brush, 3 folding chairs, rivet gun , 3 sets of binoculars, floor fans, space heater, rugs , a 12x12 outside screen folding room, leaf blower, ice maker, folding tables ....on and on
65lbs of cast iron cooking ware, stuff associated with the outside kitchen--(my RV passion) is one (if not the) of biggest contributor(s) to the 1640#..it incl a fire ring, campfire grill and rotisserie, Cabela's Deluxe Camper Kitchen (57# empty), cutting boards, etc...
And the tub of leveling blocks (4x4x8, 2x6xassorted, and box of Lynx levelers can now be removed/reduced, as I just purchased Andersen Camper Levelers) my guess is 30-45 lbs
I am hoping the bikes attached on the rear bumper will provide negative xft/lbs to the pin wt as they are now in the TV bed.
And I carry a 20#tank in a plastic milk carton for my outside Cabela's Kitchen config....I will eliminate with 5er and carry a long hose(s).
and BTW, Chris, we had our first flat this past couple of weeks and the 2T bottle that I carried in the TT did not cut the mustard, the tonnage is fine but the lift travel would not lift the TT high enough...(I now regret not asking advice/counsel on what bottle jack!!)...and I also purchased the Andersen Rapid Jack (thinking about eliminating the 4T jack?? and save another 2-3 lbs.
In the 11 homes that we have owned (we moved a lot) I have had 1-3 car garages, workshops and barns.....I always filled them up!!:eek:
I am a former aerospace engineer and weight reduction is in my DNA!!--unless it for the outside kitchen:D
7Iron
11-11-2018, 07:54 AM
Get the 3500. No questions asked it is needed for a good 5er experience. ....
When looking at trucks, like, the physical one you would buy, be sure to check the sticker to see what that specific machines payload rating is - do not just rely on the online specs and get surprised like I did.
I hope this helps you make a well informed decision!
Thanks cookinwithdiesel et al,
The good news wrt to this string is that my original question was wrt Cougar 1/2 ton (Light) 5er or the Mid profile Cougar or other Keystone.
The Good News: I have been convinced that a light (1/2 ton) Cougar wont work.
The Bad News :
1. Is that I am just about convinced that a 3500 SRW wont work for a 14K lbs Cougar.
and
2. that maybe because I may need 4k of 5er cargo --that a Mid Profile wont work?...I need a 19k dry wt (40ft++) and 2 or 3 tons of cargo...
If you accept (as you and I do) that the brochure "max payload" for a 3500 SRW diesel of 3979 is bogus as this would be a configuration of manuel windows, no radio, no console, no carpet, a completely "stripped" no sold version ....and the real payload of an SLE/SLT is closer to 3100 lbs as shown on the "Tire and Loading Information" placard Then you will not be within spec trying to pull a 14k (mid profile Cougar).
YOU MUST HAVE A DUALLY!! ( unless the driver is the only psgr and he/she weighs only 100# and you only carry 5 gal of diesel and no cup of coffee!!) then you can get close to being in spec.
For those afraid of a dually, remember that even Soccer Moms drive duallys in Texas.. [emoji1787]
7Iron
11-11-2018, 08:09 AM
Now that I am more informed than I started out....
I now need a dually and a 40++ft 5er @ 23k lbs (which exceeds the dually's towing limit) and ....I am in the $160-200K range or more for TV and 5er
What bicycles would you recommend for a 6 month loop??
:facepalm:
:camping:
:bow:
I need to start over.....join a class a forum??
If I was not getting ready for church , I would uncork a bottle of wine
cookinwitdiesel
11-11-2018, 08:17 AM
Do not fret about the width of a dually. The trailer mirrors stick out further than the wheels and you have never broken off a mirror right?
7Iron
11-11-2018, 01:02 PM
Now I'm cookin
I had been looking at 2014-2016 GMCs (low milage) thinking that was the sweet spot. But,
after checking out our local Ford dealer's stock online and reviewing sale brochures; my solution maybe a New 2019 Ford F350XL, CB SRW 4wd.
They are having a nice sale (>$4K off MRSP) and if the sales brochure is as accurate as GMC, the "numbers" are far superior than the used GMCs.
See table below ( recall that blue numbers are from brochures or door placards of actual truck and black are calculated and red are estimates of option wt reduction to MAX payload numbers)
Edit: [ oops the net payload of 3486 should be blue --frm placard and the 594 should be black]
The green shaded is the shocking difference!!
This would allow for an additional 1400 lbs of cargo (350 in 5er and 1050 in TV) should my friends are telling that 1800 cargo for full timers is too small.
cookinwitdiesel
11-11-2018, 02:39 PM
I would recommend at least a 2017 GMC for the newest gen Duramax - big boost in power and torque. not sure any of the ratings change through for weights.
Generally speaking, the Fords seem to offer higher ratings right now but do not drive as well unloaded (per reviews, I have not driven both). They have better tech options as well until the 2020 model year for the GMC HDs built on the new platform that is currently being tested on public roads. That being said, the Fords seem to cost the most of the big 3 as well when getting max spec/packages.
JRTJH
11-11-2018, 03:08 PM
You need to go back and recheck your tow vehicle GVW figures.
If I'm reading your chart correctly, you indicate the F350 SRW GVW is 13,000 lbs. That GVW rating is not available in a SRW truck. The MAXIMUM GVW for a 2019 SRW F350 is 11,500 (special order) or 11,400 (routine order) with an optional 10,000/9,900 GVW in some areas.
In order to get the 13,000 or 14,000 GVW ratings, you'll need to go to a DRW configuration.
notanlines
11-11-2018, 04:01 PM
Not that John needs my confirmation, but he is correct. No SRW's will yield 5550 cargo capacity. Generally it will be in the 3600 range with the 6.7 on board and a few niceties.
Not that John needs my confirmation, but he is correct. No SRW's will yield 5550 cargo capacity. Generally it will be in the 3600 range with the 6.7 on board and a few niceties.Even my basic F350 DRW with the wide front end, camper package and 14K GVWR only has 6200 of payload capacity. Ain't no SRW gonna get there.
7Iron
11-12-2018, 06:32 AM
Jim, John, and cookin,
I did indeed read the DRW values....I should have recognized that the difference between like models of Ford and GMC would NOT yield those values....
And to allow for "best in class" the GTWR of 20700 (ford) vs 17200 (GMC) marketing means nothing with GVWR at 10800....
Back in the dumps:facepalm:
And the Ford 176" bed has several GVWR & Max Payload configs
1. 10000 /3010
2. 10800/3810 (used in the table)
3. 11300/4250
4. 11400/4350
5. 11500/4450
I am not clear why so many configs?
John: your simple statement says it all : a 5er >13K needs a DRW!!
JRTJH
11-12-2018, 07:08 AM
...
I am not clear why so many configs?
John: your simple statement says it all : a 5er >13K needs a DRW!!
The "many configurations" are to comply with all the "STUPID REGULATIOINS AND IRONIC LAWS" enacted by multiple states, federal government offices and even city government agencies.....
Some states write a law saying, "...over 26,000 pounds" some states say, "...over 26,001 pounds", some states say, "...GVW greater than 26,000 pounds" and some states say, "...combined GVW of truck and cargo/trailer of 26,000 pounds." Then you have "homeowner's associations" (gotta love them beasts <often the 500 pound gorilla in the room>) that come up with stupid rules like, "no vehicle with a GVW greater than 11,000 pounds can be parked outside any garage in the community." So, Ford, GM and Chrysler produce a truck with a "rated GVW of 10,800" to be sold in that area while rating "essentially the same truck" at 11,400 in other areas, except for the 11,500 pound GVW which is required for "regulatory purposes" to meet the "commercial vehicle requirements of DOT in that "obscure regulation" that says, "No vehicle may be used for commercial mining that does not have a GVW greater than 11,499 pounds and such vehicles will not be insured by any federally regulated insurance underwriter for the purpose of commercial mining"......
Yeah, I know, tough reading the above because it's so confusing, but try reading the 5 million + pages of "CRAP" that the auto makers must follow in order to get a vehicle certified to sell in all 50 states, Mexico and Canada. Oh, and we haven't yet approached the fuel mileage mandates for vehicles with a GVW over/under 8800 pounds, which was the first motivation to build trucks with a 9000 pound GVW.....
Blame it on "state capitols, Washington and yes, Dorothy, even the "rabbit hole" had an input, at least in Kansas........
travelin texans
11-12-2018, 07:15 AM
And then throw the "mine's bigger" competition between the manufacturers in the pot.
Canonman
11-12-2018, 08:36 AM
I've been following this thread with some interest.
IMHO I think this is what we're moving towards:)
As the "trailers" get bigger and longer, steam power will will be the new, diesel:lol:
saturn450
11-15-2018, 09:16 AM
I did the same thing and got a f250 first account what a heard and read it will pull anything and when we found the trailer we wanted it was 1000 pounds over the cargo rating. Traded up to a f350. I wouldn’t go anything less than a one ton. If your full timing might want to go with a dually
Libbett
11-15-2018, 10:06 AM
As far as floorplans go, take a gander at the mid bunk models. We have a 2018 Cougar 368 MBI and love the floorplan. We get a nice rear living with lots of light and still have the extra bedroom. We had a 2014 Chaparral rear bunk and it always felt dark inside. Montana has a mid bunk model that you might want to look at because I agree, a Cougar isn't an extended stay rv. And I also agree with getting the rv first and match the truck to it.
kayakjim
11-15-2018, 10:10 AM
Best thing I ever did was purchased a tongue scale for my TT and go to a CAT scale. I am one of the idiots that should know better towing a 2019 Cougar27 RESWE (31 foot 8,100 GVW) with a 2017 F150. I am so close to the limit that a Ford engineer is smiling saying I told you it could tow it. Currently looking at 250's and 350's. My 5er was a Montana and I towed with a 2500 and wished I had a 3500. Just buy a 350/3500, that way you are set if you want to upgrade the trailer. Long story but I stopped camping for a bit due an illness so I sold the 2500 and Montana
cookinwitdiesel
11-15-2018, 11:10 AM
Didn't realize a tongue scale was that simple to use (just looked them up). Ordered one myself as well :)
$135 on Amazon for a scale that goes up to 2000# (so will cover any travel trailer and light fifth wheels)
Firewall
11-15-2018, 11:51 AM
As far as floorplans go, take a gander at the mid bunk models. We have a 2018 Cougar 368 MBI and love the floorplan. We get a nice rear living with lots of light and still have the extra bedroom. We had a 2014 Chaparral rear bunk and it always felt dark inside. Montana has a mid bunk model that you might want to look at because I agree, a Cougar isn't an extended stay rv. And I also agree with getting the rv first and match the truck to it.
Same model here, and started with a 2500HD - it did ok but obviously was over weight. The new truck has a 4300lb payload! :)
brodiegg
11-15-2018, 02:43 PM
I would do the reverse, find the 5er you want then see what you will need to tow it. It is mostly the payload that is the limiting factor, so by looking at the trailer first you can customize the truck to what you will need and not over buy . As for gas or diesel that is a debate that will last forever, if you plan on being on the road A LOT, then diesel makes sense and will justify most of the increased expense in purchase, maintenance, a fuel costs.
Tireman9
11-15-2018, 03:16 PM
Before you buy and before you get your heart set on a TV or TT that will not work or you can't afford you need to educate yourself FIRST.
At least watch THIS (https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers) video so you understand that neither the TV nor the TT salesperson will know enough to give you the information you need other than tell you "Sure this unit will work" as they only have one goal. Make the sale and get you off the dealer's lot.
scarlson42
11-15-2018, 03:22 PM
I would add that if you go the SRW route, get the TV in a 4x4 configuration. I’ve had to use mine in 4WD more than once when positioning the 5er in a soggy area.
Phil Saran
11-15-2018, 03:56 PM
You want a bath and a half plus bunks.
Start off with a diesel 3500 of your brand choice, because your looking for a 38 to 40 foot unit. The Cougar 333 MKS may fit your needs if it comes with bunks and the extra bath.
I have a new Cougar 30 RLS 5th wheel @ 34 feet and I tow with a Dodge Ram diesel 3500 4x4 because I like having enough chassis and brakes to handle most any load and the 4x4 because I live where we get snow.
Also my Dodge has an electric jake brake which is real nice for those 6% hills. Saves the brakes.
ctbruce
11-15-2018, 04:38 PM
Before you buy and before you get your heart set on a TV or TT that will not work or you can't afford you need to educate yourself FIRST.
At least watch THIS (https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers) video so you understand that neither the TV nor the TT salesperson will know enough to give you the information you need other than tell you "Sure this unit will work" as they only have one goal. Make the sale and get you off the dealer's lot.Good video. Thanks for sharing.
cynnich
11-15-2018, 11:34 PM
1). As has been stated before trust neither the trailer or truck salesperson when figuring what you need.
2). As the less technical spouse I would add do not get 2wd. We have sometimes ended up in mud puddles we would never have gotten out of without 4wd. (It’s amazing how fast a grassy field can turn into a swamp).
3). I drive the dually both around town and towing our Fuzion. Im not as good backing up as the husband but I get by with him spotting if the trailer is attached.
7Iron
11-16-2018, 05:37 AM
As far as floorplans go, take a gander at the mid bunk models. We have a 2018 Cougar 368 MBI and love the floorplan. We get a nice rear living with lots of light and still have the extra bedroom. We had a 2014 Chaparral rear bunk and it always felt dark inside. Montana has a mid bunk model that you might want to look at because I agree, a Cougar isn't an extended stay rv. And I also agree with getting the rv first and match the truck to it.
That is the 5er that is one the top of our list.
What is your current actual GVW and pin/tongue wt?
The pin wt for this trailer is the controlling (MOST SIGNIFICANT) piece of data, and I hope you have it and will share.
thank you
7Iron
11-16-2018, 05:43 AM
Same model here, and started with a 2500HD - it did ok but obviously was over weight. The new truck has a 4300lb payload! :)
Wow, another 368MBH owner. Same question what is your GVW (5er) and the pin wt.
And the truck that I am looking at today has max payload is 4450, but the door sticker only has 3714 for remaining payload....I would have never guessed that the XL options were that heavy.
Snoking
11-16-2018, 06:22 AM
Given the 368MBI has a dry pin weight of under 2K and GVWR just under 14K, a SRW 350/3500 will handle it just fine. Pin weight should be 3K or less fully loaded. I am basing this on my experience with 16K 5er that has a dry pin weight of 2435 towed with a Ram 3500 SRW.
7Iron
11-16-2018, 06:55 AM
Given the 368MBI has a dry pin weight of under 2K and GVWR just under 14K, a SRW 350/3500 will handle it just fine. Pin weight should be 3K or less fully loaded. I am basing this on my experience with 16K 5er that has a dry pin weight of 2435 towed with a Ram 3500 SRW.
Not necessarily Snoking....
It all depends on how much of the added cargo to the 5er gets transferred to the pin and what the cargo is in the TV. Does only 20% go to the pin (min possible, unless it is loaded rear of axles, or is it closer to 50% as the storage basement is about centered between axles and pin....???
See the table...that range is 670lbs in the example.
I am really hoping for real actual data for the 368 by two different owners, then I will feel confident of the transfer.
7Iron
11-16-2018, 07:45 AM
oops forgot the table.
Snoking
11-16-2018, 07:49 AM
Not necessarily Snoking....
It all depends on how much of the added cargo to the 5er gets transferred to the pin and what the cargo is in the TV. Does only 20% go to the pin (min possible, unless it is loaded rear of axles, or is it closer to 50% as the storage basement is about centered between axles and pin....???
See the table...that range is 670lbs in the example.
I am really hoping for real actual data for the 368 by two different owners, then I will feel confident of the transfer.
The dry pin weight is only 17% of the dry weight. To get to 3000 lbs pin weight that would be 21.5%.
To look at it a different way, lets take the 2405 CC and take 22% pin weight percentage times that and we get 529 pounds. 1980 + 529 = 2509 pin weight.
Or another look. To get to 3000 pounds pin weight 34% of the 2405 cargo would right on the pin.
With a 350/3500 you are worrying about a issue is not going to happen. Chris
babaloo
11-16-2018, 08:08 AM
We bought a 1/2 ton 2018 Cougar 279RKSWE, 5er. There is no question that the quality / construction is a bit less, trying to save on weight. It was disapointing. Had many small features that we felt we're rinky dink, but many that we appreciate, i.e. Auto Level, Upgraded suspension, and on 20th anniversary models, many tiny upgrades from 2018 'Non- 20th anniversary ' models, (Keystone changed mid-year)... We love it though, as the' newness' is wonderful. I would look at other brands, and walk through as many as possible, slowly !
We have a 2012 Dodge Diesel 3500 dually, more truck than we need. (Have a big Lance Truck Camper, as well)... My first Dodge, (at 73 YO), and my first diesel. Immediately got 3-4 MPG better, everyone told me I'd have it for 300K miles plus, and would never change back to my 2006 Big Ford F250 Gas...Diesel is by far the way to go. Good Hunting !
p.s. after 2012, at least with Dodge Diesels, you have to add the additive to the gas...UGH !
7Iron
11-16-2018, 09:58 AM
When we owned a single axle pu I created a tongue wt calculator that was very accurate. I have revamped to model a dual axle (will not be as close) 5er.
It can not be more accurate than the inputs:
1. 3 key measurements:
a. 5er length
b. rear to pin midpoint
c. center of axles (midpoint between) from rear
2. payload wt and location
3. Wt of hitch pin assembly
4 Wt of Axles/Suspension/Wheels and Tires
In this example if you remove the added cargo you will get the Dry Wt and pin wt from the Keystone Brochure for the 368MBH
If you like a copy of the excel file let me know
7Iron
11-16-2018, 10:08 AM
The dry pin weight is only 17% of the dry weight. To get to 3000 lbs pin weight that would be 21.5%.
To look at it a different way, lets take the 2405 CC and take 22% pin weight percentage times that and we get 529 pounds. 1980 + 529 = 2509 pin weight.
Or another look. To get to 3000 pounds pin weight 34% of the 2405 cargo would right on the pin.
With a 350/3500 you are worrying about a issue is not going to happen. Chris
and if I could put all 2405 directly above the pin, essentially all of it would go to the pin. and if I put all 2405 on the rear bumper it would reduce the dry wt pin wt to about 150 lbs....but the real question is what really happens when you load out the 368MBH....with most of the wt in the basement??
7Iron
11-16-2018, 10:18 AM
If I put most of the load out in the refrig, I would create negative moment at the pin (as the refrig is behind the rear wheels) and if my model is correct, the wt on the axels would be 12.5k and I would reduce the pin down from the dry wt of 1980 to 1399....now I can pull with my GMC 1500:lol::lol::lol:
Firewall
11-16-2018, 12:00 PM
Wow, another 368MBH owner. Same question what is your GVW (5er) and the pin wt.
And the truck that I am looking at today has max payload is 4450, but the door sticker only has 3714 for remaining payload....I would have never guessed that the XL options were that heavy.
So the stated gvw of the 368MBI is 13980. The factory sticker is 11575lbs. So your table seems to be accurate. The payload of my truck (yellow sticker) is 4323lbs. I have not had the opportunity to CAT scale the truck or trailer yet.
7Iron
11-16-2018, 05:36 PM
So the stated gvw of the 368MBI is 13980. The factory sticker is 11575lbs. So your table seems to be accurate. The payload of my truck (yellow sticker) is 4323lbs. I have not had the opportunity to CAT scale the truck or trailer yet.
just in case you are not familiar with Cat....The first weigh costs $10 bucks and you get the wt of the TV front axle , the TV rear axle and the 5er axles wt (there are 3 different scales in-line). And you can get re-weigh , for $2 within 24 hours of the initial weight
I get the first weigh , pull off and pay, then drive around and pull back onto the scales and disengage the TT/5er making sure that all of the weight of the TT/5er is on the 3rd scale. Push the button and tell them it is a reweigh, they ask for the number from the first weigh slip and after they tell me they have it, I recouple and pull to the ofc to get my 2nd slip.
I subtract the TV rear axle wts (first slip value from the 2nd slip value) to get the pin/tongue and the 3rd wt of the reweigh is the TT/5er is its GVW.
It is easier than it sounds and pretty cheap insurance
just in case you are not familiar with Cat....The first weigh costs $10 bucks and you get the wt of the TV front axle , the TV rear axle and the 5er axles wt (there are 3 different scales in-line). And you can get re-weigh , for $2 within 24 hours of the initial weight
I get the first weigh , pull off and pay, then drive around and pull back onto the scales and disengage the TT/5er making sure that all of the weight of the TT/5er is on the 3rd scale. Push the button and tell them it is a reweigh, they ask for the number from the first weigh slip and after they tell me they have it, I recouple and pull to the ofc to get my 2nd slip.
I subtract the TV rear axle wts (first slip value from the 2nd slip value) to get the pin/tongue and the 3rd wt of the reweigh is the TT/5er is its GVW.
It is easier than it sounds and pretty cheap insurance
DO NOT disconnect the trailer while on the scale. You need 2 weighs. For the first, drive on the scales with the trailer connected, get the weight and get off. Drop off the 5er in a parking spot and go reweigh with just the truck. The difference between the first and second weigh for the weight of the truck’s axles will be your pin weight that you can add to the trailers axles’ weight from the first weigh to get the loaded weight of the 5er.
7Iron
11-17-2018, 04:19 AM
DO NOT disconnect the trailer while on the scale. You need 2 weighs. For the first, drive on the scales with the trailer connected, get the weight and get off. Drop off the 5er in a parking spot and go reweigh with just the truck. The difference between the first and second weigh for the weight of the truck’s axles will be your pin weight that you can add to the trailers axles’ weight from the first weigh to get the loaded weight of the 5er.
Oh no, I do every time, am I breaking some rule or a protocol??...Certainly I would not be tying the scales up for other users....although the scale I use is not used very often.
Its great that you aren’t knowingly holding someone up but IMO its not good etiquette to unhitch and reconnect while on the scale. With my luck, someone would pull up in line just as I’m unhitching!
There are usually plenty of parking spots where there’s a CAT scale so it would be much better to unhitch the trailer and leave it in a spot well away from traffic while you reweigh with just the truck. You’ll be on and off the scale much faster and not potentially make a trucker very angry having to wait while you play around on the scale. Remember that they are working - time is money for them. We’re just on vacation.
Laredo Tugger
11-17-2018, 06:43 AM
Rather than "unhitch" on the scale, just take the weight off of the pin with the front jacks without separating the TV (there's a sweet spot where this happens). Get your re-weigh,raise the jacks (lower the trailer),then pull off, get your tickets and do your math. Isn't this doing the same thing in less time?
And of course you are not doing this with someone waiting behind you.
RMc
JRTJH
11-17-2018, 08:21 AM
With all the previous talk about not tying up a diesel pump while truckers are waiting to refuel, making sure to pull far enough forward so they can start pumping diesel while you pay, why would someone think it's OK to tie up the scales by unhitching a fifth wheel "on the pads" or even "screwing around with the landing gear" on the pads. Yeah, even if someone isn't behind you, "what if" you happen to shear a pin and can't get the landing gear to retract ?????
Truckers use those scales to avoid fines or problems at the government/DOT scales. Typically, they can weigh their rig in 90 seconds or less and be on their way. Time is money to them and having someone with an RV on the scale, wasting time "jacking, unhitching and screwing around" is an excellent way to build contempt for RV'ers.... Weigh and move off the scale.
It's common practice (and common courtesy) NOT to do anything on the pads except get your weights and pull off the pads. Any adjustments need to be done away from the scale... If the weighmaster inside sees you unhitching or extending your landing gear, you can be assured that he/she will be instructing you to STOP and pull off the scale. You may get a lecture and instructions not to return....
7Iron
11-17-2018, 02:35 PM
I now own a 2018 Ford F350 6.7 Powerstroke, 3.31 SRW LB CB; with 4080 payload, 28,700 GCWR, 20,400 GTW (5er), 18,000 GTW (TT).....
Now on to the 5er selection ....
btw the 368MBH works fine w/ 2k of 5er cargo:
460 below TV GVWR
465 below 5er GVWR
6900 below the GCWR
100-350 below the GAWR (100lb reserve if 100% of pin is on Rear Axle and 80% of (driver, 2 psgnrs, diesel and stuff) is carried by rear axles....very conservative---best guess is we will be 350 below GAWR)
It will damn sure pull our 2016 Coachmen FE RKS246 TT, 850 tongue, 6200 GVW
7Iron
11-17-2018, 02:37 PM
It's common practice (and common courtesy) NOT to do anything on the pads except get your weights and pull off the pads. ....
You guys have sold me....no more dilly dallying on the scales...!!
thanks for my duh moment....
vBulletin® v3.8.9, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.