Water heater issues

[cayovelez]

Hello all,

I have this issue with my water heater that is driving me crazy. The water heater keeps on leaking via pressure relief valve during refilling all the time. I have change relief valve, re-established air pocket several times a week and still leaking. I am on a travel assignment living on a site with full hooks ups so the city water is always connected and the water heater is on electric mode all the time. I do know that a little drip is normal due to closed system, but the amount of water seems excessive, the gutter on the heater is constantly full and during cycles it drips all over.

what to do?

Thanks,

Carlos

[chuckster57]

At this point I would just replace it. You can get one from the local big box hardware store, just be sure to check the thread size since there are two different ones.

[cayovelez]

I have replaced it twice.

[sourdough]

Probably has nothing to do with it but, what is your water pressure and are you sealing the threads? If it is leaking out the outlet it is either pressure or the valve in my mind.

[cayovelez]

Pressure is around 50 psi. Thinking of eliminating the backflow valve, but not sure.

[wiredgeorge]

Might want t9 put a regulator on your city water inlet and get it down a tad and see if that helps if you have replaced the relief valve. A relief valve is a common piece of RV junk that can be had in places like a Walmart.

[nied]

From the Atwood manual:
PRESSURE-TEMPERATURE RELIEF VALVE Weeping or dripping of a pressure-temperature relief valve while the water heater is running DOES NOT mean it is defective. This is normal expansion of water as it is heated in the closed water system of a recreation vehicle. The Atwood water heater tank is designed with an internal air gap at the top of the tank to reduce the possibility of weeping and dripping. In time, the expanding water will absorb this air. To replace the air follow these steps: Step 1: Turn off water heater Step 2: Turn off incoming water supply Step 3: Open the closest hot water faucet in the coach Step 4: Pull handle of pressure-temperature relief valve straight out and allow water to flow until it stops. Step 5: Allow pressure-temperature relief valve to snap shut, turn on water supply and close faucet.

[fatcatzzz]

I would check the water temp. On a Suburban water heater I believe that the thermostat is preset to 120 degrees. If the temp is getting higher than that expansion could be causing the pressure to open the relief valve. If the temp are getting higher than 120 degs. replacing the thermostat should take care of the leaking.

Just my 2cents

[bobbecky]

I just let ours weep, doesn't hurt anything. If you really want to stop the leak, you could install an expansion tank, which will absorb the expansion of water when it heats up, and hopefully this will stop the weeping. This is one that might solve the problem- https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-182-200-Pre-Pressurized-Accumulator-Tank/dp/B000N9VF6Q

[cayovelez]

So I have replaced the relieve valve twice, installed a water pressure regulator, re-established air pocket 4 times this week and changed the Thermostat and still weeping a reasonable amount of water. I don't think an expansion tank would help since I am constantly connected to city water, so at least I believe since my understanding of expansion tank is to help the pump.

[ctbruce]

Do you have a water pressure regulator on your trailer? Maybe it's too high?

[cayovelez]

Yes, brand new water pressure regulator

[bobbecky]

So I have replaced the relieve valve twice, installed a water pressure regulator, re-established air pocket 4 times this week and changed the Thermostat and still weeping a reasonable amount of water. I don't think an expansion tank would help since I am constantly connected to city water, so at least I believe since my understanding of expansion tank is to help the pump.

When you are connected to city water, there is a check valve in the city water inlet that does not allow water to reverse flow back into the hose, and that is where you are building up excess pressure which is causing the T&P valve to open and leak water. If you install an expansion tank and get it pressurized correctly, it will absorb that excess pressure and probably stop the water leak.

[cayovelez]

Thanks Bob! I will try that. It is probably going to take me a week or more to get it installed, I am in the middle of nowhere working. Thanks again, I was under the impression the expansion tank was just for the pump.

Carlos

[flybouy]

Just throwing this out...if you have the hwh on all day and the hot water is not being used for several hours at a time a little leaking is normal. Of course my "little bit" could be your "flood" so without a video or some other quantitative measurement then it's conjecture.

[cayovelez]

flybouy, Thanks did not think of that.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Hi Carlos:
I don't know a lot about water heaters, but I know a lot about troubleshooting.
First, you should establish exactly where the water is coming from. Is it leaking around the threads of the bypass valve or from the outlet of the valve, or maybe somewhere else entirely?
If it is coming out of the valve outlet and you have already replaced the valve then the possibilities are
1. The replacement valve was also defective (unlikely, but possible)
2. The pressure in the tank is greater than what the valve is rated for, so now you have to find out why. This usually comes from the addition of the mains pressure and the pressure caused by heat expansion of the water. According to the manual, the air gap in the tank is supposed to allow for that, so either (a) the heat expansion is too great because of too high temperature, or (b) the mains pressure is too great.

You mentioned that you have a water regulator. If it is one with a gauge, you could try setting the pressure into the trailer at a lower setting to see if this helps. The water pump in my trailer is rated at 2.5 Bar which is about 36PSI from memory. I set my regulator to about 40PSI because I had a problem with the non return valve in the pump getting jammed by the mains pressure. This is an easy path to a possible fix. If it doesn't work, it costs nothing and you move to the next possible causes.

If it's not the mains pressure causing too much expansion, then is it too much heat? As others have said, you can measure the temperature of the water coming out of the system to check that. If it's too high, then the thermostat is your culprit.
HTH

[IRV2]

I noticed mine will weep when I have gas and electric on at the same time.It would leak in the cargo bay so I applied a piece of eturnabond tape in the area where the heater and exterior of trailer come together. That way the water would travel over that joint and not intrude into the cargo area. I just run one or the other not sure if it was heat or the pressure.

[xrated]

Water heater pressure relief valves, unless defective and needing to be replaced, normally only leak for two reasons.
1. Incoming water pressure is too high for that particular system
2. Internal pressure in the heater tank is too high because of the heating device control (either the gas thermostat or the electric element thermostat) is not shutting off at the proper temperatures.

When this happens (overheating) the internal pressure in the tank goes above the setpoint of the pressure relief valve and causes it to drip or to actually flow water a bit.

[WJQ]

You have been given a bunch of good advice above including xrated and FlyingAroundRV. Here are a couple of thoughts.
1. If you are leaking around the valve and used a Teflon tape for the sealant, that is not always sufficient. I have sometimes found that pipe threads need a paste sealant to make up for the micro defects in a threaded interface.
2. Regarding a pressure tank, you are correct. If installed correctly, a pressure simply keeps your pump from cycling during small water use cycles and when you are NOT on city water. To explain how this works, a pressure tank has two compartments separated by a flexible bladder. The tank also has a pressure setting valve (typically a Schrader valve like on an inner tube) that sets the operating pressure. A good pressure would be 40 psi. The other side - the wet side connects to your water supply. If the wet side volume is one gallon, you can use nearly one gallon of water before your pump will cycle. Then, the pump will run until you close the faucet you are using and until the wet side of the pressure tank fills to the setpoint pressure. This process is how the plumbing system for houses that use well water versus a city main supply.

Thus, a pressure tank for you when connected to the city water is irrelevant and will not help anything.

So, follow the advice of others and make sure you are not leaking around the threads and, if so, reinstall the valve using a good pipe sealant from Home Depot or Lowes.

[scarlson42]

Hello all,

I have this issue with my water heater that is driving me crazy. The water heater keeps on leaking via pressure relief valve during refilling all the time. I have change relief valve, re-established air pocket several times a week and still leaking. I am on a travel assignment living on a site with full hooks ups so the city water is always connected and the water heater is on electric mode all the time. I do know that a little drip is normal due to closed system, but the amount of water seems excessive, the gutter on the heater is constantly full and during cycles it drips all over.

what to do?

Thanks,

Carlos
Sorry I can’t help, but maybe the following will help others. The advice comes from a fellow RVer and commercial plumber with many years of experience.

Don’t touch the pressure relief valve on your RV water heater unless absolutely necessary! You’re better off letting the water cool and then slowly unscrewing the anode rod to relieve the pressure. Yes, you’ll get a little wet. In his experience, once you crack open that valve, it’s likely to keep leaking until you replace it. He swears that this is gospel amongst professional plumbers. YMMV, as usual.

[sgrol]

Don’t touch the pressure relief valve on your RV water heater unless absolutely necessary! You’re better off letting the water cool and then slowly unscrewing the anode rod to relieve the pressure. Yes, you’ll get a little wet. In his experience, once you crack open that valve, it’s likely to keep leaking until you replace it. He swears that this is gospel amongst professional plumbers. YMMV, as usual.

Not sure about that advice/superstition. I open the pressure relief all the time to drain the hot water tank. Have done so with the last three RVs I have owned and have never had any leakage problems.

[scarlson42]

Not sure about that advice/superstition. I open the pressure relief all the time to drain the hot water tank. Have done so with the last three RVs I have owned and have never had any leakage problems.
I certainly won’t argue against what works for you. His advice is based on commercial and residential systems. I follow it on the RV because it’s no big deal to splash a little water. I only open up the HWH when I winterize and in the spring. Sometimes advice persists based on a few old anecdotes.

[pitman44]

Sorry I can’t help, but maybe the following will help others. The advice comes from a fellow RVer and commercial plumber with many years of experience.

Don’t touch the pressure relief valve on your RV water heater unless absolutely necessary! You’re better off letting the water cool and then slowly unscrewing the anode rod to relieve the pressure. Yes, you’ll get a little wet. In his experience, once you crack open that valve, it’s likely to keep leaking until you replace it. He swears that this is gospel amongst professional plumbers. YMMV, as usual.


I can't speak for professional plumbers, but I do own a residential HVAC business. About 1/3 of our client base has hot water heat. We check every relief valve on every boiler or water heater we service. Yes, sometimes they leak afterwards. We replace them if they do and charge our clients.



A relief valve is a primary safety device and as such needs to be tested to verify they will, in fact, release water. Several times a year we find relief valves that won't release water. Add a failed high limit, which we also find several failed every years, and you have a tremendous explosion. Here's a link to a water heater failure in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bU-I2ZiML0


I imagine our client's kids sleeping above the boiler/water heater. IMO, any contractor not checking relief valves is either lazy or ignorant.

[scarlson42]

Good to see a different perspective. You’ve changed my mind,

[cayovelez]

I have tried everything but installing an accumulator tank. I have replaced several relief valves, thermostat, re-establishing air pocket and several water pressure regulators and nothing has helped. It is not a little drip which I understand is normal, is just a large amount of water the gutter is constantly full and drips outside the unit a considerable amount.

So based on two neighbors at where I am staying with my rv, I am very likely switching my water heater to a Girard Tankless water heater. Any comments or suggestions? I am not concerned of having 110 option, i am ok with running propane only water heater.

Thanks

[chuckster57]

If your going tankless, Girard isn’t popular in our shop. Look up Truma.

[pitman44]

I have tried everything but installing an accumulator tank. I have replaced several relief valves, thermostat, re-establishing air pocket and several water pressure regulators and nothing has helped. It is not a little drip which I understand is normal, is just a large amount of water the gutter is constantly full and drips outside the unit a considerable amount.

So based on two neighbors at where I am staying with my rv, I am very likely switching my water heater to a Girard Tankless water heater. Any comments or suggestions? I am not concerned of having 110 option, i am ok with running propane only water heater.

Thanks


Have you investigated the cost of these units installed?

[cayovelez]

If your going tankless, Girard isn’t popular in our shop. Look up Truma.

Chuckster57,

Thanks for the input. You must only deal with super high end units, the cost of the Truma is not justifiable. Most of the negative reviews on Girard are on first and second gen. Their latest gen gets killer reviews are most people are installing them without issues by themselves. Most people with the latest gen are very happy and after install are saving 200 plus percent vs. Truma. You can make an argument for Truma, but I don't a 100,000 dollar rig I just have a cougar 27 foot with a 6 gallon atwood water heater.

Thanks for the input,
Carlos

[cayovelez]

Have you investigated the cost of these units installed?

The Girard unit 3rd gen with door, frame and cotroller is about 545 which is comparable to the current unit. With the unit I have 6 gallon atwood with an opening of 16x16 it is a simple straight forward swap.

[chuckster57]

Your very welcome. Yeah the truma comes on a “pleasure way” RV and they are 6 figures. I’m glad to hear Girard has made improvements, I know Jayco was using them in class B/C motorhomes and had issues.