Gravity/City Water Fill intake is melting

[Dblhack]

I have a 2018 Hideout 177lhs and the hot water heater is located right below the Gravity / City Water Fill plastic intake. We are new owners, and on the second trip out (first trip we didn't use the hot water), I noticed that the cap on the city water fill has melted (deformed).

Has anyone else had this happen? Is there anything I can do? I am under warranty, but I don't see how this won't just happen again even after a repair.

[Canonman]

Any chance the cap was deformed prior to using the HW heater? I've not noticed exhaust temps from our water heater high enough to think they would melt a plastic cap.
On our Cougar the exhaust grill is warm to the touch but the exhaust air has not been "Hot".
Others may have a different experience but it would take some fairly high temps to cause melting.

[spade117]

I can't help much other than to say I recall someone else posting about this same issue. If you try a search, you should probably find it.

[fourfourto]

Link http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35403

Bad design:facepalm: bring it to dealer

[Dblhack]

Just wanted to show the relationship of the water connections and the heater. Also, I wanted to point out the deformed cap.

I contacted the dealer to see if there is any recalls or anything that can be done. I know they can repair it under warranty, but it seems to me it will only do it again.

My concern (besides the cap not fitting to keep the connection clean) is that at some point the hose will not connect if it melts any worse.

[fourfourto]

That set up is worse than the one located to the right of heater.
How can they expect you to hook up water hose without it melting ?

I would be very concerned.

[Canonman]

With the photos I can see exactly what you mean. That cap for the city water is made of a much more pliable plastic than the FW cap or the actual city water attachment. It deformed where the others didn't. A poor design for sure. When the cap is removed for use it would hang right over the exhaust vent. No wonder it got hot enough to deform. It wouldn't take much.
I'd see what the dealer or Keystone has for a fix. I've had good luck contacting Keystone Owner Relations: https://www.keystonerv.com/owners/contact-us/ (I used the phone #. They will answer and did follow up.
Keep us posted as there are likely others with this same set up looking for an answer.

[Miles65]

I am seeing very, very poor design choices for Keystone, the more I follow various posts, in here. This is not a great company, I'm afraid. They apparently do not have a department to oversee the goofy things their less than bright design engineers come up with, on a regular basis. For me, the idiocy of cramming in twin recliners in an area where they blocked access to most of the rear storage and counter space (or made access a hassle) and a side window, was, initially, written off as a fluke. Now, time and time, again, I read, in here, about even more idiotic design choices that are never caught, before they're foisted off on the RV buying public. Keystone will probably not be my choice for a new RV, the next time around. My old Prowler gave me ten years of reliable service and showed no design flaws that I ever had to deal with. My Springdale has already had an awning post that bent, due to a flaw that caught it on its frame, along with the aforementioned dual recliners.

[JRTJH]

I am seeing very, very poor design choices for Keystone, the more I follow various posts, in here. This is not a great company, I'm afraid. They apparently do not have a department to oversee the goofy things their less than bright design engineers come up with, on a regular basis. For me, the idiocy of cramming in twin recliners in an area where they blocked access to most of the rear storage and counter space (or made access a hassle) and a side window, was, initially, written off as a fluke. Now, time and time, again, I read, in here, about even more idiotic design choices that are never caught, before they're foisted off on the RV buying public. Keystone will probably not be my choice for a new RV, the next time around. My old Prowler gave me ten years of reliable service and showed no design flaws that I ever had to deal with. My Springdale has already had an awning post that bent, due to a flaw that caught it on its frame, along with the aforementioned dual recliners.

It's not "just Keystone".... EVERY (note the all caps) RV manufacturer has issues with "what were they thinking".... Ever tried to repair (or even close) a twisted, crooked tambour door in an Airstream overhead cabinet??? or even stack six 10" dinner plates in that same cabinet (curved walls on the "iconic design") They (Airstream) says to place your light items in the overhead storage, but if you put your cereal boxes up there, they won't fit unless you lay them down...

How about open the front storage compartment on any manufacturer's "non-extended pinbox" fifth wheel??? or how about access the water pump in a Jayco Jay-Raven ??? Or how about access the dump valve on any "rear kitchen RV with a "double slide" (dinette and sofa in one slide)???

I could go on and on about things like the black tank flush in the back of the shower wall, or under the sink, or even just that "cheap plastic valve that breaks on every one of us"...

As for "dual recliners blocking the storage" how about the "gotta move the recliner and put it on the sofa to close the slide" or the "can't get into the trailer with the slide closed and the switch that opens it is inside, so you have to use the remote to get in" ??? Yeah, that's on a Forest River "luxury fifth wheel" model that was produced for one year before they changed the location of the "command center" and put it back on the stairwell wall where it belongs.....

It's not "just Keystone" and from what I see of some other manufacturer's products, they're one of the better ones at "figuring out their design flaws"...

[Miles65]

It's not "just Keystone".... EVERY (note the all caps) RV manufacturer has issues with "what were they thinking".... Ever tried to repair (or even close) a twisted, crooked tambour door in an Airstream overhead cabinet??? or even stack six 10" dinner plates in that same cabinet (curved walls on the "iconic design") They (Airstream) says to place your light items in the overhead storage, but if you put your cereal boxes up there, they won't fit unless you lay them down...

How about open the front storage compartment on any manufacturer's "non-extended pinbox" fifth wheel??? or how about access the water pump in a Jayco Jay-Raven ??? Or how about access the dump valve on any "rear kitchen RV with a "double slide" (dinette and sofa in one slide)???

I could go on and on about things like the black tank flush in the back of the shower wall, or under the sink, or even just that "cheap plastic valve that breaks on every one of us"...

As for "dual recliners blocking the storage" how about the "gotta move the recliner and put it on the sofa to close the slide" or the "can't get into the trailer with the slide closed and the switch that opens it is inside, so you have to use the remote to get in" ??? Yeah, that's on a Forest River "luxury fifth wheel" model that was produced for one year before they changed the location of the "command center" and put it back on the stairwell wall where it belongs.....

It's not "just Keystone" and from what I see of some other manufacturer's products, they're one of the better ones at "figuring out their design flaws"...

Having owned five RV's, I agree 100% with you. The new RV market pitches to mostly well-off folks who don't sweat warranty work, and simply get rid of a unit if it's exceptionally buggy. When the used market folks get in, then they have to tear their hair out with the many design flaws, as you went into. I buy new, but still rage at the dumb design stuff I see on units. The inground pool market is similar, in some ways, with absolute garbage design support devices, like filters, but swap-outs on those devices is usually a little easier.

[chuckster57]

Having owned five RV's, I agree 100% with you. The new RV market pitches to mostly well-off folks who don't sweat warranty work, and simply get rid of a unit if it's exceptionally buggy. When the used market folks get in, then they have to tear their hair out with the many design flaws, as you went into. I buy new, but still rage at the dumb design stuff I see on units. The inground pool market is similar, in some ways, with absolute garbage design support devices, like filters, but swap-outs on those devices is usually a little easier.

As a tech currently employed in the RV industry, I respectfully disagree. ALL our customers sweat the warranty work, and weather it’s a very well to do person that bought a $400,000.00 motor home or a struggling couple that bought a $20,000.00 entry level unit, they all want verything to be perfect. As to the trading in/selling if it has issues, we have several customers that have brought their unit back several times for different issues and even paid out of pocket to fix simply because they can’t afford/ don’t want the cost of a new one. Maybe where you live it’s different, but that’s just my take on things from the inside, YMMV and yes I talk bad about the designers/engineers on a daily basis.

[Miles65]

As a tech currently employed in the RV industry, I respectfully disagree. ALL our customers sweat the warranty work, and weather it’s a very well to do person that bought a $400,000.00 motor home or a struggling couple that bought a $20,000.00 entry level unit, they all want verything to be perfect. As to the trading in/selling if it has issues, we have several customers that have brought their unit back several times for different issues and even paid out of pocket to fix simply because they can’t afford/ don’t want the cost of a new one. Maybe where you live it’s different, but that’s just my take on things from the inside, YMMV and yes I talk bad about the designers/engineers on a daily basis.

I am afraid you misunderstood my post, specifically my "don't sweat the warranty work" assertion. What I meant was that those who buy new know they have warranty coverage and are fine with that because it'll take care of problems they may find due to poor design issues, during the coverage period. In the case of the water supply inlet sited directly over a super heated air outlet, it is almost unbelievable that anyone would buy such an idiotically designed unit. I cannot conceive of a fix, so I'd demand my money back under a lemon law, if such relief is available to the buyer.

[Canonman]

"yes I talk bad about the designers/engineers on a daily basis"

Chuckster, I'll bet you see some real "head shakers" in the course of your repairs.
One can only imagine why things were done a certain way as opposed to a different seemingly easier or more serviceable way.
I know I've had my share of "what were they thinking" moments in my career.
In the end all you can do is fix it or modify it or ignore it.
As a good friend of mine used to say "if all else fails...Duc it" BTW, I have duct tape in several colors:)

[chuckster57]

Yup. Can’t print the other things I say. This thread about takes the cake on poor oversight, and I wonder if it was a youngster trying to make his/her way into the RV industry.

[ctbruce]

Engineering or designing one does not necessarily mean that you have ever been in 1. Or own 1. Seems to be a lot of idiocy because of not thinking it through.

[t001xa22]

I, for one, did post a comment several months ago about this water inlet/furnace outlet issue. At the time of my original post, I got no response. Even though I don't profess to have an engineering degree, it should seem very obvious that this is a bad design. I am attaching my original photos, and I await any constructive opinions. For reference, this is on a Hideout 178LHS. The pics show that all I could do at the time was angle the hose/filter to avoid the interference temporarily.

[JRTJH]

I "shake my head" every time we use our Cougar. The furnace exhaust is directly in the middle of where two lawn chairs would be placed when the awning it extended. I understand, from a "make things fit" perspective, that the furnace fits well "if you put it under the refrigerator" and it's easier to connect propane lines if you run two in the same location..... That said, if you've ever been sitting outside or washing dishes outside and had the furnace exhaust "blast you with heat" .... well, wouldn't it have made more sense to put it under the stairwell with the exhaust forward of the awning? Or better yet, put it on the road side of the trailer, next to the water heater? That way the exhaust is not directed to a sitting area and there's less chance of a child (or inattentive adult) getting burned on the exhaust manifold outlet....

Yup, RV engineers should be "required to live in an RV of the type they want to design before they're allowed to pick up a drafting pen. JMHO

[ctbruce]

I, for one, did post a comment several months ago about this water inlet/furnace outlet issue. At the time of my original post, I got no response. Even though I don't profess to have an engineering degree, it should seem very obvious that this is a bad design. I am attaching my original photos, and I await any constructive opinions. For reference, this is on a Hideout 178LHS. The pics show that all I could do at the time was angle the hose/filter to avoid the interference temporarily.William, You got several responses on your original post. Not sure what you're talking about.

However maybe a small or short threaded extension added from the camper to your spigot would be a good idea to avoid the problem you're having. Not sure if this is really a good idea but at least it's something different. It would move your filter several inches away from the furnace. Just a thought.

[Miles65]

I'd put a 90° el at the inlet, and run my hose and filter horizontally, bracing it where necessary, until it was away from the heat source.

[Tufelhunden]

Just wanted to show the relationship of the water connections and the heater. Also, I wanted to point out the deformed cap.

I contacted the dealer to see if there is any recalls or anything that can be done. I know they can repair it under warranty, but it seems to me it will only do it again.

My concern (besides the cap not fitting to keep the connection clean) is that at some point the hose will not connect if it melts any worse.

I wonder if an inverted dryer vent shaped piece of tin or aluminum with a few drain holes would work to permanently fix the issue. Not very pretty but it may divert the heat enough.

[flybouy]

As a tech currently employed in the RV industry, I respectfully disagree. ALL our customers sweat the warranty work, and weather it’s a very well to do person that bought a $400,000.00 motor home or a struggling couple that bought a $20,000.00 entry level unit, they all want verything to be perfect. As to the trading in/selling if it has issues, we have several customers that have brought their unit back several times for different issues and even paid out of pocket to fix simply because they can’t afford/ don’t want the cost of a new one. Maybe where you live it’s different, but that’s just my take on things from the inside, YMMV and yes I talk bad about the designers/engineers on a daily basis.

Totally agree. I'd venture to say that the $4 city water cap means more to a young family struggling to make ends end meet buying a 14' popup than the couple that buys the 1/2 million dollar motor home.

[Dblhack]

I wonder if an inverted dryer vent shaped piece of tin or aluminum with a few drain holes would work to permanently fix the issue. Not very pretty but it may divert the heat enough.
I may end up doing something like that. I looked under the bed. There was plenty of room so they could have moved the intake very easily.

[fourfourto]

Did you bring it to the dealer yet ?

[Dblhack]

No. They said they would take off the bug screen and see how that works. That’s not a solution I don’t think.

[Dblhack]

So, I wanted to share my solution to the melting problem I had. I ran the hot water heater a number of times this weekend and this arrangement worked just fine.

[Dblhack]

Sorry about the picture rotation. Not sure why it came out that way.