Thinking of moving up to a 5TH Wheel

[Chaos1]

We presently have a Bullet Priemer 26rbpr and are thinking of moving up to a 5TH wheel 30 ' ish couples trailer but have a 5.5 foot box any advice would be appreciated

[Canonman]

Our Cougar fits us well as a couples trailer. Plenty big inside while still reasonably maneuverable. The box is 27' behind the Ram so it's really close to the 27' TT we started out with. We like the rear kitchen layout. Lots of counter space and the fridge, sink, bathroom etc are accessible without needing to open the slide. We do a lot of dry camping and find the tank sizes allow us about 5 days in the field without any issues. Except for pin weight, all other weights are well within the towing specs for our Ram. All in all a very comfortable unit.

[travelin texans]

You have a 5.5' box on what? The truck may be the limiting factor in how big/heavy 5er you're looking at. DO NOT believe any truck or rv salesman on whether your current truck can handle any rv you choose, they are there to sell & usually don't know/care if you can safely tow it or not. DO NOT fall for the "1/2 ton towable" sales pitch as most ARE NOT 1/2 ton towable. Empty rv weights tell you absolutely nothing in regards to towing weights, gross weight is your concern. Also the payload of your truck is more important than how much trailer weight it "can" tow. You have to do your own homework BEFORE purchasing a 5er that you don't have enough truck for.
As for switching to a 5er you'll be glad you did as far as ease of towing (with the proper truck), hitching & roominess inside.

[bob91yj]

What size truck do you have (1/2, 3/4 ton)?

[notanlines]

After looking at your info I see you're towing with an F150. As Travelin Texans pointed out you will be limited greatly in the size 5ver you'll be able to tow. Your short box can be off-set by using an "auto-slider" for your hitch, but you have a mighty small truck to be towing much. Sorry.....

[Chaos1]

We are using a F150 with tow package 3.5 ecoboost 10 speed with airbags

[bob91yj]

^^^^Doubtful that you will enough truck for most 5th wheels.

[cookinwitdiesel]

From what I have found reading, even a 3/4 ton is usually stretched outside of its specs towing even modest sized fifth wheels. Do not forget that slider hitch that was mentioned to make your short bed work weighs a few hundred pounds that comes out of your already limited payload rating. You would be best suited (and safest) towing with a 1 ton. They usually cost about the same as a 3/4 ton and should ride similarly (since both use the HD/SD chassis). You do not have to get a dually necessarily although that will open up the larger fifth wheels as an option down the road.

You probably want that extra truck weight and heavier duty breaks to help manage the weight of the larger trailers when on the road.

As example on why a 3/4 ton may not cut it, my truck has a 2200# payload rating. A light fifth wheel has around 1800# pin weight. With a hitch, myself, my family, minimal gear all in the truck, I am well over the rating for my truck. Many on the forums are comfortable exceeding the rating on their truck and do so saying that everything runs fine - I am not in that group. I would rather have some safety margin in there for both safety, and longevity so I am not stressing anything (axles, differentials, springs, brakes) to the point of an early failure.

[KHBama]

I have a Ram 2500 and a "super lite" 5th wheel weighing roughly 9500lb loaded and I'm over payload but well under axle and tire ratings. My point, your allowable weight starts to run out quickly when you make the jump to a 5er. You more than likely don't have enough truck even for the smallest 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel versions. Don't trust the salesman

[JRTJH]

Let's look at the smallest Cougar Half Ton Fifth Wheel, the 25 RES. Here's how Keystone specs it:

Shipping Weight 7500 lbs.
Carrying Capacity 2500 lbs.
Hitch 1500 lbs.
Length 29' 7"
Height 11' 8"
Fresh Water 60 gal (600 lbs)
Waste Water 30 gal (270 lbs)
Gray Water 60 gal (540 lbs)
LPG 60 lbs

Required sliding hitch: 250 lbs

Most half ton trucks have a payload around 1700 pounds. You can check your yellow sticker to see what your specific truck's payload is.

Let's do some "quick math"
Empty truck, payload 1700 lbs
Pin weight empty trailer 1500
hitch 250
propane 60
batteries (2) 90
fresh water (1/4 tank) 150
spouse 125
dog 20
truck cab cargo (purse, maps, floor mats, etc) 50
tools etc in truck bed 100

Total cargo 295
Empty pin and hitch 1750

As you can see, even before adding propane, batteries, water, camping equipment, clothing, food or entertainment equipment to the trailer, the payload is completely consumed by the trailer, hitch and spouse (with purse)...

Essentially, with a GVW of 10,000 pounds, you can expect roughly a 20% pin weight. Even if you only load to 9000 pounds, that's 1800 pound pin weight plus 250 for the hitch, plus DW/purse/dog, or well over 2400 pounds before you put any cargo in the truck bed.

While there are "half ton trucks" that are properly equipped to tow a light weight fifth wheel, not all "half ton trucks" are properly equipped. Unfortunately, yours likely isn't properly equipped.

Don't take my word for it, do your own math, be realistic with the payload and your truck's capabilities and I feel certain you'll come to the same conclusion as I've posted here.

So, can a half ton truck tow a half ton trailer? Yes, some (very few) are properly equipped, most aren't......

[Chaos1]

We were at the dealer to bring ours in for some warranty work and stopped at a Grand Design dealer on the way home. Grand design has a series called Reflection 150 the 230RL GVW 6950 and Hitch 1200 the 273MK GVW 7416 and Hitch 1328 and the 290BH GVW is 8200 and hitch 1280 and the 295RL GVW 8500 and hitch 1391 and there goose neck swivels on the trailer attachment not the truck

[sourdough]

We were at the dealer to bring ours in for some warranty work and stopped at a Grand Design dealer on the way home. Grand design has a series called Reflection 150 the 230RL GVW 6950 and Hitch 1200 the 273MK GVW 7416 and Hitch 1328 and the 290BH GVW is 8200 and hitch 1280 and the 295RL GVW 8500 and hitch 1391 and there goose neck swivels on the trailer attachment not the truck


You've made a mistake. You are quoting unloaded weights. Here is the link to the 230RL, the rest reflect the same thing.
https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2019/fifth-wheel/reflection-150-series/floorplans/230rl

[travelin texans]

As I said empty weights tell you absolutely nothing, so figuring hitch weights from empty weights also tells you absolutely nothing! To get accurate hitch weight figure minimum 20% of GVW of the rv.
As for a V6 supercharged lightweight 1/2 ton pickup, it's a great tow vehicle for your little boat, pop up camper or motorcycle/snowmobile/atv trailer, not a heavy rv.

[JRTJH]

Pretty much all you did was change the trailer brand from Keystone Cougar to Grand Designs Reflection. Otherwise, you're within a couple hundred pounds of the same specs with either brand. Something that's "too big" with a C on the front is also "too big" with a GD on the front..... I am not aware of any fifth wheel that is suitable for a F150 with a 1700 pound payload other than the "fiberglass egg fifth wheels" which range about 4500pounds and about 21' long.

They have a great reputation as "small fifth wheels" and are extremely functional, but for the most part, they are "campers" not "travel trailers"....

[KHBama]

We were at the dealer to bring ours in for some warranty work and stopped at a Grand Design dealer on the way home. Grand design has a series called Reflection 150 the 230RL GVW 6950 and Hitch 1200 the 273MK GVW 7416 and Hitch 1328 and the 290BH GVW is 8200 and hitch 1280 and the 295RL GVW 8500 and hitch 1391 and there goose neck swivels on the trailer attachment not the truck


The hitch weight on my Laredo is 1350ish unloaded. Loaded now, it’s around 1800-1850lbs

[Chaos1]

Thank-you for your opinions looks like we need to upgrade our "car" before i upgrade my trailer.

[Getn off]

I ran into this same issue recently. Bought a 2016 f150 3.5 tt and was told it would tow 11.9! Showed me the flyer and looked legit with my bare bones knowledge at the time. 18 mo later in the market for a tt or 5er. With the right hitch, a tt was looking good until my wife saw a few on the interstate swaying pretty bad with a similar truck. No way!
Looked at the GD models and almost bought one. Empty hitch weight and my trucks extra payload looked promising. Nope. We were just over when to ALl of the math. Thought we could put bags and a helper spring next. Said F it and bought a 2018 F350 powerstroke dually and a 40' 5er! Problem solved!
Only way we saw to use a "half ton fifth wheel" was to have a alum F150, 3.5tt, max tow, max payload, long bed and even with doing that it is maxed out. Hell, some 3/4 ton trucks are at the limit with an ave rv now.
Was quite a learning experience for me. Good luck on your endeavors.
Troy

[JRTJH]

I...

Only way we saw to use a "half ton fifth wheel" was to have a alum F150, 3.5tt, max tow, max payload, long bed and even with doing that it is maxed out. Hell, some 3/4 ton trucks are at the limit with an ave rv now.
Was quite a learning experience for me. Good luck on your endeavors.
Troy

Our F250 is that way. At max capacity with an XLite 30' fifth wheel and the little bit of "stuff" we carry in the bed. Between the "standard-not sliding hitch", blue tank, one Champion generator and 5 gallons of gas, we're within 100 pounds of our payload capacity. I often see 40' toyhaulers and luxury fifth wheels behind similar trucks and I wonder whether they're over payload by 1,000 or 2,000 pounds.... They sure aren't close to their GVW by a long shot !!!!!

[KHBama]

Our F250 is that way. At max capacity with an XLite 30' fifth wheel and the little bit of "stuff" we carry in the bed. Between the "standard-not sliding hitch", blue tank, one Champion generator and 5 gallons of gas, we're within 100 pounds of our payload capacity. I often see 40' toyhaulers and luxury fifth wheels behind similar trucks and I wonder whether they're over payload by 1,000 or 2,000 pounds.... They sure aren't close to their GVW by a long shot !!!!!

Pretty sure I saw a 3 axle Toy Hauler being towed by a F250 last week at Fort Wilderness in Disney. It COULD have been an F-350 SRW but dont think so.

[bob91yj]

Go hang out at the entrance roads to Glamis (SoCal sand dunes) about this time of year. You'll see set ups that will make you cringe.

CHP has started checking for non-commercial Class A license's out there the last few years. One of my CHP customers told me that they key on 3 axle trailers. If the VIN tag shows that the gross trailer weight is over 10k pounds for a bumper pull, or 15k on a 5th wheel, you'd better have the endorsement, or have a hell of a tow plan!

[idcruiserman]

Thank-you for your opinions looks like we need to upgrade our "car" before i upgrade my trailer.

Find the trailer you want (1-2 year old used is best if your budget allows), and then find the pickup to pull it. Duallies are great tow vehicles.

Consider an Andersen ultimate hitch to save a lot of weight and money.

[itat]

Chaos01, hi from Bowmanville!

I totally agree with the other posters that your F-150 is not suitable for towing a fifth wheel. I came to the same conclusion with my 2009 F-150 with a 5.5’ box although your 2017 will have a payload number probably 400# higher than my 2009 because of the aluminum body.

So, as you’ve stated, if you want to move to a fifth wheel, you’ll need a bigger truck. You’ll need at least a 3/4 ton gasser. If you want a diesel, go right to a 1 ton because the heavy diesel engine robs a lot of payload. It’s hard to find a good used heavy duty / super duty truck around here so you might have buy new. That was my experience in 2016 when I upgraded to my F-250 gasser. I’ve got my eye on a Cougar 30RLS or similar sized fifth wheel in the near future.

The good news is you have the opportunity to pick the fifth wheel first and then pick the truck you’ll need to handle the pin weight. Don’t be concerned about the truck’s towing capability because you’ll exceed the payload capacity long before you hit the max. towing (pulling) number.

[travelin texans]

Truck & rv manufacturers would be doing newbies, actually everyone, a favor if they DID NOT mention rv unloaded weights & trucks max towing capacities, both are totally worthless to the consumer & the sales people will spout them off like they are the most important weights of all.
You need loaded gross rv weight, max pin/hitch weight & max truck payload.

[alpo]

I am in the same situation. What I was told in many forums is the Payload is a conservative number based on assumed values and are not held to by MV Laws. The Truck’s GVWR and GAWR numbers are the ones NOT to exceed. That being said I was told to load the Truck with the people and Cargo expected to be in it when towing, and a Full Tank of Gas. Then go to a Scale (Such as a CAT scale used by semis) which should tell you the actual weights Front and Back Axle. As a 5er will rest almost entirely on the Rear Axle look at the Rear GAWR Rating minus the one you got at the scale for the Rear, that will leave you your true remaining Allowable Pin Weight for the 5er. Of course when looking at the 5er use 20% of its GVW (Fully Loaded Weight). I have found that even my 3/4 Tom Ram is barely enough for a 5er (never thought I’d say it but, Damm Cummins! Apparently it weighs close to 600# more than a hemi. It can Pull a mountain but not carry one).

[rbrdriver]

As others are trying to say, if you're thinking fifth wheel you need to be thinking 1 ton truck, and preferably dually for stress-free safe towing. That is what I recently changed my 3/4 ton truck to a 1 ton dually. It's not if your current truck can "pull" it, but if you can carry it.

[CWSWine]

The person that told you to go by axle rates is behind times and that is no longer valid way of determining payload. This has been reprinted in most of the major trucking newsletters over the last few months. I quote:

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA
"Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.”

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA

https://drivewyze.com/blog/trucking-industry/role-gvwr-gcwr-specifying-work-trucks/

https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_benefits/Industry_leading_news/NTEANewsarticles/The_role_of_GVWR_and_GCWR_in_specifying_work_truck s.aspx


https://www.usspecial.com/2018/01/page/13/

http://procontractorrentals.com/pages/News-01_30_18-NTEA-shares-truck-rating-considerations.php





I am in the same situation. What I was told in many forums is the Payload is a conservative number based on assumed values and are not held to by MV Laws. The Truck’s GVWR and GAWR numbers are the ones NOT to exceed. That being said I was told to load the Truck with the people and Cargo expected to be in it when towing, and a Full Tank of Gas. Then go to a Scale (Such as a CAT scale used by semis) which should tell you the actual weights Front and Back Axle. As a 5er will rest almost entirely on the Rear Axle look at the Rear GAWR Rating minus the one you got at the scale for the Rear, that will leave you your true remaining Allowable Pin Weight for the 5er. Of course when looking at the 5er use 20% of its GVW (Fully Loaded Weight). I have found that even my 3/4 Tom Ram is barely enough for a 5er (never thought I’d say it but, Damm Cummins! Apparently it weighs close to 600# more than a hemi. It can Pull a mountain but not carry one).

[chuckster57]

Axle rating is very valid. When you weigh your truck empty you get a front axle weight and a rear axle weight. Fifth wheel pin weight is placed pretty much directly over the rear axle, and the published weight can be used to determine if your going to be over.

When the highway patrol pulls people over, they bring out the portable scales. They weight your REAR axle, then open the drivers door and look at the certification label. If your over your RV is subject to impound. Maybe in your state it doesn’t work that way, but I know for a fact it does out here.

GVWR is the total the ENTIRE truck can weigh
RAWR is the MAX weight you can LEGALLY put on the rear axle, and I know of at least 3 people that have found out the hard way that axle rating indeed does matter.

[efrulla]

In spite of all the naysayers my F-150 Lariat with a max tow package handles our Cougar 1/2 ton 25RES with no trouble at all and even loaded we are below spec.

Just know the limits of your tow vehicle and buy within those limits taking into account the cargo you will also need to carry. It can be done, I do it every time I take the rig out and have not had a single Oh Crap moment.

I had the F-150 and bought my 5th wheel according to what I had. If I had a choice and was buying an new tow vehicle I would get an F-350 class rig. Not because my F-150 will not tow what I own safely but because I would like the ability to buy a bigger RV.

So if you are buying a new tow vehicle, buy as big as you can afford. Trust me, you will eventually want to upgrade

[Phil Saran]

Yes if you want a 5th wheel trailer go with a 1 ton truck what ever brand you like and can afford.

I have a 2012 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel 4x4 w/6.5 bed and a slider hitch.

My wife wanted a 38 foot 5th wheel trailer and I talked her down to a 34 foot.

As nice as a long bed dually would be I live where we get snow and hail so the truck must fit in the garage.

[gRich]

Don't believe ANYTHING the salesman tells you about weights and tow vehicles. I had an F150 ecoboost with a 1700 lb payload and I believed him and about a small fifth wheel, a Cougar xlite 28sgs at just under 31 feet with pin weight of 1410. After a few trips, I loaded up and went to the scales and was about 400 lbs over payload. So, I switched to LT tires and added helper springs. But, I still had the same axles and wheels which have weight limits. I started thinking, if I'm in a wreck, and worse if someone gets hurt, the judge will know I was overloaded as will the insurance company. You can only play stupid so long before bad things happen. I sold the F150, which we loved, and a bought a nice rough riding F350. I'm well within the towing and payload limits and feel much safer. Know your legal limits and buy the correct combination of trailer and tow vehicle and ignore the salesman.

BTW, my F150 was a short bed and I bought the Reese Sidewinder with a regular 5th wheel hitch, ie, no slider, and it worked fine - no broken rear window. I might recommend the Reese Airborne Sidewinder to help minimize the chucking and bucking while going down the road, but it is a bit more expensive; however, no first hand knowledge with it.

[KHBama]

The person that told you to go by axle rates is behind times and that is no longer valid way of determining payload. This has been reprinted in most of the major trucking newsletters over the last few months. I quote:

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA
"Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.”

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA

https://drivewyze.com/blog/trucking-industry/role-gvwr-gcwr-specifying-work-trucks/

https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_benefits/Industry_leading_news/NTEANewsarticles/The_role_of_GVWR_and_GCWR_in_specifying_work_truck s.aspx


https://www.usspecial.com/2018/01/page/13/

http://procontractorrentals.com/pages/News-01_30_18-NTEA-shares-truck-rating-considerations.php


Don't think anyone is determining payload based on axle ratings, but using axle ratings is better than using a marketing tool rating used by some, IMO. Until someone proves me wrong, again my Ram 2500 with a 5.7L has 1,000lbs less payload than a Ram 2500 6.4L despite only a 50ish lb different in engine. Magically the truck advertised as a more heavy duty truck(6.4L), gets the GVWR of 10,000lbs vs 9,000lbs for the 5.7L. I realize that 6.4L is stronger and can technically "pull" more, but we are talking strictly payload here.

[CWSWine]

I am in the same situation. What I was told in many forums is the Payload is a conservative number based on assumed values and are not held to by MV Laws. The Truck’s GVWR and GAWR numbers are the ones NOT to exceed. That being said I was told to load the Truck with the people and Cargo expected to be in it when towing, and a Full Tank of Gas. Then go to a Scale (Such as a CAT scale used by semis) which should tell you the actual weights Front and Back Axle. As a 5er will rest almost entirely on the Rear Axle look at the Rear GAWR Rating minus the one you got at the scale for the Rear, that will leave you your true remaining Allowable Pin Weight for the 5er. Of course when looking at the 5er use 20% of its GVW (Fully Loaded Weight). I have found that even my 3/4 Tom Ram is barely enough for a 5er (never thought I’d say it but, Damm Cummins! Apparently it weighs close to 600# more than a hemi. It can Pull a mountain but not carry one).

Don't think anyone is determining payload based on axle ratings, but using axle ratings is better than using a marketing tool rating used by some, IMO. Until someone proves me wrong, again my Ram 2500 with a 5.7L has 1,000lbs less payload than a Ram 2500 6.4L despite only a 50ish lb different in engine. Magically the truck advertised as a more heavy duty truck(6.4L), gets the GVWR of 10,000lbs vs 9,000lbs for the 5.7L. I realize that 6.4L is stronger and can technically "pull" more, but we are talking strictly payload here.

The first quote is using axle ratings and ignoring payload. He weighing the truck and subtracting the axle scale weight from the Manufacture Axle Rating to determine the heaviest pin weight his truck can handle. Like it says in the Ford manual/towing guides and I quote "must not cause vehicle weights to exceed the rear GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) or GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). These ratings can be found on the vehicle’s Safety Compliance Certification LabeL”

Those high towing capacity that the dealers throw around to convince people to buy trucks. Here is the rest of the story.
SAE J2807 States that exceeding the GVWR/GAWR is a reason to fail the towing test at that weight. So GVWR/GAWR are still the deciding factor.

"5.4 GVWR/Rear GAWR and Tongue Weight/Kingpin Weight Considerations
The tow vehicle shall be able to accommodate appropriate trailer tongue and/or kingpin weight to attain a particular TWR
without exceeding Rear GAWR and/or GVWR. Required minimum conventional trailer tongue weight shall be 10% of TWR and required minimum fifth wheel or gooseneck trailer kingpin weight shall be 15% of TWR."

TWR = Trailer Weight Rating

http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/tow-test-standards-2016-02.pdf

[LewisB]

CHP has started checking for non-commercial Class A license's out there the last few years. One of my CHP customers told me that they key on 3 axle trailers. If the VIN tag shows that the gross trailer weight is over 10k pounds for a bumper pull, or 15k on a 5th wheel, you'd better have the endorsement, or have a hell of a tow plan!

We live in Arizona and occasionally visit California. We're towing a heavy 3-axle Raptor Toy Hauler with a 2017 F350 DRW. Do "out of state" drivers get a brake on this endorsement? Is this something I should be concerned about?

Thanks for any information you have.

[xrated]

We live in Arizona and occasionally visit California. We're towing a heavy 3-axle Raptor Toy Hauler with a 2017 F350 DRW. Do "out of state" drivers get a brake on this endorsement? Is this something I should be concerned about?

Thanks for any information you have.

Most of those Raptor T.H.s are in the 19K GVWR if I'm not mistaken. Your Dually should have 5200+ lbs of payload. Do you think our know that you are over your weight capacities?

[Ken / Claudia]

Lewis, please read my signature.
You must be legal in your state regarding driver license and vehicle license. Each state can and does have different laws for THEIR residents. When traveling into another state, they cannot make you have something your state does not offer regarding drivers and vehicle license.
They can and do enforce road weight restrictions, speed restrictions, equipment restrictions. etc etc.
When talking about comm vehicles, that is different and takes a book to explain them.

[alpo]

Some believe I infer adding the Front and Rear GAWRs together total the GVWR - I did not infer that. I was only trying to relate how to determine available remaining PIN Weight by subtracting the actual Rear Axle Weight of a Fully Loaded and Gassed Truck from the Rear GAWR. You would need to add weight for the Hitch as well if not installed. As far as the Hitch goes MANY people recommend the Anderson Aluminum Hitch which is quite Light. Grand Design 5th Wheels offer a Swivel Pin Hitch that works for Short Boxes without the need of a Heavy Slider.

[chuckster57]

Grand Design 5th Wheels offer a Swivel Pin Hitch that works for Short Boxes without the need of a Heavy Slider.
Only in the “150 series” Reflection. It’s called “turning point” and you can lock it out for regular towing.

https://www.lci1.com/turning-point

[sourdough]

Don't believe ANYTHING the salesman tells you about weights and tow vehicles. I had an F150 ecoboost with a 1700 lb payload and I believed him and about a small fifth wheel, a Cougar xlite 28sgs at just under 31 feet with pin weight of 1410. After a few trips, I loaded up and went to the scales and was about 400 lbs over payload. So, I switched to LT tires and added helper springs. But, I still had the same axles and wheels which have weight limits. I started thinking, if I'm in a wreck, and worse if someone gets hurt, the judge will know I was overloaded as will the insurance company. You can only play stupid so long before bad things happen. I sold the F150, which we loved, and a bought a nice rough riding F350. I'm well within the towing and payload limits and feel much safer. Know your legal limits and buy the correct combination of trailer and tow vehicle and ignore the salesman.

BTW, my F150 was a short bed and I bought the Reese Sidewinder with a regular 5th wheel hitch, ie, no slider, and it worked fine - no broken rear window. I might recommend the Reese Airborne Sidewinder to help minimize the chucking and bucking while going down the road, but it is a bit more expensive; however, no first hand knowledge with it.


I love your post...thanks.