Cougar Half-Ton Fifth Wheels

[famoussenior]

Surprised by my DW's interest in getting a fifth wheel, we went to see if the Cougar Half-Ton fifth wheels are light enough for my 2013 1500 Dodge Ram to pull. I'm far from an expert at determining a safe towing maximum and know there are a lot of factors that enter in the equation. I really would appreciate input from the forum so here is some data: According to the Dodge dealer, my truck is rated to pull 8,850 max dry trailer weight. The max payload weight for my truck is 1,580. All is based on my 5.7L engine and 3.55 rear end. My goal is to find a HT towable fifth wheel without upgrading my truck to a 2500. By the way, a few of the Cougars I saw on the lot have a max dry weight and hitch weight that is within my truck's maximums but I remain leery.

Based on the above, what would be considered as a safe max trailer weight and payload to pull with my truck?

[66joej]

Pin/tongue weights are listed dry (nothing in the trailer). For instance my TT has a dry tongue of 550# yet when loaded for camping it comes in at 880#.
As you can see dry weights are a bit misleading.
I would not pull a 5er with a 1/2 ton truck.YMMV

[JRTJH]

Remaining leery is good.... Do some "easy math" before you buy !!!

You say your payload is 1580 pounds. That figure is full fuel tank and a 150 pound driver. So, from that, deduct your "additional weights" starting with the your weight in excess of 150 pounds. Then deduct your DW's weight, any and all "personal cargo", mats, tools, coolers, GPS units, seat covers, running boards, spray in or truck bed liners, mud flaps, etc that you've added since the truck was new. Then deduct 150 pounds for your fifth wheel hitch. What's left is your maximum fifth wheel pin weight.

Typically, most fifth wheel pin weights range from 15%-25% of total trailer weight. The data on the Keystone website and in their brochures is EMPTY trailer weight for the standard trailer with no options, no battery and no propane in the tanks. So, you'll need to add 60 pounds for propane and 100 pounds for two batteries to the weight, just to tow the empty trailer home. Almost all of that weight is "pin weight" since the propane tanks and batteries are in the forward storage compartment area.

Most people add at least 1000 pounds of cargo/fluids to any trailer when towing, so you'll also be adding a portion of that to the pin weight, which is directly taken from your truck payload.

To be "on the safe side" many calculate anticipated pin weights by using the trailer GVW (shipping weight + cargo capacity) and using 20% of that GVW as the pin weight.

As an example, if you weight 200 and your DW weighs 150, you have a 40 pound dog and carry 100 pounds of tools in your truck, have added 50 pounds of accessories to the truck (running boards and a LineX spray in bed), you'll have about 390 pounds to deduct from the payload. Add your hitch and you're about 540 pounds of "deductions from payload" So in reality, your 1580 pounds is 1040 pounds. Assuming you'll never add a generator to your truck bed, never carry firewood or a 5 gallon fuel tank, never throw in an axe or any 2x8 blocks for leveling, the maximum pin weight your truck can carry is 1040. If you do add camping stuff to the truck bed (most of us do) then that comes off the maximum also....

If you use the data on the Keystone website for the smallest Cougar Half Ton, the 25RES, you'll see that it is going to overload your truck.

The EMPTY specs for that trailer are: Pin: 1500 GVW: 10,000
Anticipated specs: Pin weight about 20% of GVW: 2000

Even if you could manage to keep the pin weight to 15%, with an 8800 pound maximum trailer rating, the empty trailer weighs 7500 pounds. Add your hitch, propane, batteries, camping equipment and you're going to be at/over your maximum trailer capacity as well as being over your maximum payload....

Simply put, while your truck can "PULL" that trailer (make it go forward while hitched) it's not a capable vehicle to actually "TOW" a fifth wheel in the Cougar Half Ton line.

Are there people who do it? Yes, and some of them are successful, until they have truck problems or get stranded with an overheated transmission or have axle problems, etc.

There's also people standing on the beach in NC, watching the waves and waiting for the storm surge.... Risk takers typically aren't "safety conscious"....

[flybouy]

Many,many posts regarding this, do a search on the forum and a large volume of reading will be at your fingertips. Start off with writing down the weight restrictions from the yellow sticker on the truck. That is pertinent information on YOUR truck as it was delivered, not a sales pamphlet from the dealership.

[wiredgeorge]

Not meaning to dispute any of the info but my personal opinion is that "1/2 Ton Towable" is a marketing jingle more than a fact. There likely are 1/2 ton trucks that if optioned correctly may be able to tow SOME of these units marketed as 1/2 Ton Towable but MOST 1/2 ton trucks are going to over their head. I am not saying you couldn't pull it down a straight flat country road but your truck will struggle in hills, you will not have any margin of safety and it will be tiresome to drive.

Count it as a blessing that your wife wants a 5ver and start looking for a more appropriate truck if you can budget it or if not, look for a smaller bumper pull; most gals will like the condo like interiors of a 5ver over a smaller bumper pull so use this when begging for that truck to pull it. Remember that if you are not going to be doing full time pulling, you might just be able to get away with a gas engine and used truck. 5vers are great to pull and provide a lot of the comforts of home when camping! Good luck.

[chuckster57]

Dry weight: I may look into what Keystone does. Our sales staff went to Grand Designs seminar recently and dry weight came up. Grand designs has a battery and filled propane bottles that are placed on the unit at the plant scales for an accurate tongue weight.

I don’t know that others are doing it, but I would suspect that it might be something more and more are going to do.

[JRTJH]

This is the email I received from Keystone CS in December 2017 explaining their published weights. While things may change on a daily basis, I haven't heard anything about Keystone changing their procedures.


Bettina Rogers [email protected]
To jrtjh

Hi John,

Yes, that is correct.

Bettina Rogers
Keystone RV Company
Keystone Shoppers Konnection
574-535-2488
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jrtjh
Sent: Today 2:58:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Keystone RV Shopper's Konnection

Thank you for your response. If I understand you correctly, the hitch weight as it appears on your website does NOT include a battery or propane, but it does include the weight of the empty propane cylinders. Is that correct? Thanks much !!!


-----Original Message-----
From: Bettina Rogers <[email protected]>
To: jrtjh
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 2:16 pm
Subject: Keystone RV Shopper's Konnection

Hi John,

Thank you for contacting Keystone RV Shopper's Konnection. You are correct, the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) is the shipping weight plus the carrying capacity. The shipping weight is when you pick it up from the dealer-nothing added to it. The carrying capacity is the maximum amount of weight it can carry due to the axle size. The hitch weight is the amount of a trailers weight that rests on the tow vehicles hitch (also empty). When you are adding weight to the RV you will want to distribute it evenly. Yes, add the weight (100 #) to the trailer weight. Please let me know, if you have further questions. Happy Holidays,

Bettina Rogers
Keystone RV Company
Keystone Shoppers Konnection
574-535-2488
[email protected]

[Howie]

Good advise above. The reality is that you will have to be so careful with a 1500 not only in what 5er you purchase but you will have to be very mindful of what and how you load. Yes, you can pull it but is your or your DW's life or health worth it? Upgrade to a 2500 as I would bet you could sell your 1500 and buy a used 2500 for not a great difference in cost. Life is too short to take needless risks.

I was recently in your shoes and I decided to upgrade the truck first. Ended up buying a 350 as there wasn't any difference is what I found used. Did I need a 350, no, but I am totally comfortable in that I made a safe and sound decision. Temping fate is for teenagers and fools.

[bob91yj]

It's not as much the "go" that I would worry about, but the "whoa" that would be the biggest issue IMO.

[rhagfo]

While I would rather see someone towing a lite 30’ 5er and be slightly over GVWR and still within axle and tire ratings, than towing a 30’ TT. The reason is much more stable towing package.
In the OP’s case he will not be too happy getting near max tow rating with 3.55 gears. Then there is thee 1,500# payload, just not enough to get pin, hitch, and people even if you go over a couple hundred pounds.

[newcar16]

Surprised by my DW's interest in getting a fifth wheel, we went to see if the Cougar Half-Ton fifth wheels are light enough for my 2013 1500 Dodge Ram to pull. I'm far from an expert at determining a safe towing maximum and know there are a lot of factors that enter in the equation. I really would appreciate input from the forum so here is some data: According to the Dodge dealer, my truck is rated to pull 8,850 max dry trailer weight. The max payload weight for my truck is 1,580. All is based on my 5.7L engine and 3.55 rear end. My goal is to find a HT towable fifth wheel without upgrading my truck to a 2500. By the way, a few of the Cougars I saw on the lot have a max dry weight and hitch weight that is within my truck's maximums but I remain leery.

Based on the above, what would be considered as a safe max trailer weight and payload to pull with my truck?We have a 2016 couger 26RLS. I used to tow it with a 2013 silverado 5.7, trailer towing package and 3.42 rear end. The truck pulled it fine around indiana and Michigan where we do most of our camping. We took a trip to Tennessee and the truck struggled in the mountains

[travelin texans]

You've done the right thing by doing some research beforehand!
One thing to remember, DO NOT believe ANYTHING your rv or truck dealer tells you about what or how much you can tow, they're there to sell & don't know/don't care if you can/can't tow whatever safely as long as they sell it. The old saying "if their lips are moving".

[famoussenior]

Many thanks for the great input from the forum. It is apparent to me I have two options: forget about the fifth wheel and keep my pull trailer, or upgrade my 1500 truck and get what I need for the fiver of my choice. I am in the majority who feel safety is more important than any other factor.
Again, thanks to all who responded. This is a great forum!

[wiredgeorge]

Howdy famoussenior! See we are neighbors (well kinda). I live by Medina Lake! One thing you might want to consider... there were a LOT more 5vers made a few years ago that weighed a whole lot less than the big guys of 2018. My Cougar is 27' and weighs about 6500 lbs dry. I have a 3/4 ton but it pulls real easy and since I do most of my camping in the Hill Country that was a major consideration plus we have a slot on my property where I park (have a full hook up) and couldn't go much, if any over 30'. Our trailer is a rear kitchen with a great floorplan and I have been tinkering to get it set up to make it mine. This weekend I am going to add a TV mount so the TV can come out and turn towards our Lazyboy recliner love seat some and we can hopefully watch our new Dish sat TV comfortably when we camp next weekend at the Utopia River Resort (in Utopia). Cheers!

[mhbell]

See my sig. I bought a 2016 Cougar half ton and was going to pull it with a F150 1/2 ton truck. No way. When I ran it across the scales with full propane and batteries along with everything that I carry in the truck and the 5th wheel. I found that my pin weight was 2400 Lbs, not 1580. Lucky for me I anticipated this and had purchased a F250 Super Duty. Do yourself a favor and take your truck to a cat scale and weigh it with hitch passengers full fuel and everything else you would carry in it. I think you will find that the load (trailer) you can safely carry is less than what the fifth wheel will weigh with everything in it that you want to carry. Sure your truck would tow it, but not safely and it would be a dog in the smallest hills. Been there done that.
Mel

[rshipyor]

My wife and I bought a 2018 cougar half ton 25res fifth wheel and pull it with our 2014 Chevy Silverado 1500 z71 and have no problem whatsoever. Just do your homework on weights of rv and hitch and what your truck can handle.

[sourdough]

My wife and I bought a 2018 cougar half ton 25res fifth wheel and pull it with our 2014 Chevy Silverado 1500 z71 and have no problem whatsoever. Just do your homework on weights of rv and hitch and what your truck can handle.


Have you checked those weights? I ask because that is a 10k gvw trailer which would equate to about a 2k pin weight give or take. I wasn't aware of a 2014 Chevy 1500 that had a 3k payload??? Did I miss something?

I may be missing something, and weight slips and detailed info about your truck would be beneficial, but the OP is trying to err on the safe side and not go with "I pull it with zero problems". Just wanting to clarify.

[fjr vfr]

Have you checked those weights? I ask because that is a 10k gvw trailer which would equate to about a 2k pin weight give or take. I wasn't aware of a 2014 Chevy 1500 that had a 3k payload??? Did I miss something?

I may be missing something, and weight slips and detailed info about your truck would be beneficial, but the OP is trying to err on the safe side and not go with "I pull it with zero problems". Just wanting to clarify.




I have to agree with what you're saying. The web site lists a pin weight of 1610 lbs empty. That means about 2k full. Now ad in 200lbs for the 5th wheel, 350 lbs for two passengers the payload is now 2550 lbs with nothing else in the truck. This is for sure way over the payload capacity and the trucks gvwr.


Personally I cringe every time I hear the words "1/2 ton towable." It is such BS. There are very few 1/2 ton trucks and very few 5th wheel trailers that are compatible....and I mean very few! I won't say none, but personally I wouldn't even consider it....just MHO.

[JRTJH]

The Cougar Half Ton 32DBH is more than most diesel 3/4 ton trucks can handle and would challenge a 1 ton gas truck. And it's not the biggest nor the heaviest "Cougar Half Ton"....

At 36'2", a 9300 pound empty weight with a empty pin weight of 1950 pounds, it's a 4 slide fifth wheel with a bunk house with a GVW of 11,500 pounds, so it's not marketed as a "couple's trailer". It's designed to sleep 4 (per advertised specs) but actually sleeps 2 in the bedroom, 2 in the bunkhouse, 2 on the fold out sofa and 1 or 2 on the dinette. That's a sleeping capacity for a "large family" with a crewcab half ton truck, 3 kids, a dog and bikes on the rear trailer rack...

If someone with a family or 5 or 6 were considering this trailer, they're in the 1 ton truck range with this "half ton towable" trailer and well beyond the payload of a 3/4 ton truck.

A tragedy in the works if anyone is foolish enough to take the "half ton towable" into the sales pitch......

[notanlines]

My wife and I bought a 2018 cougar half ton 25res fifth wheel and pull it with our 2014 Chevy Silverado 1500 z71 and have no problem whatsoever. Just do your homework on weights of rv and hitch and what your truck can handle.
I believe Danny (Sourdough) was being relatively kind when he failed to ask about your homework and scale slips you have. Maybe you could post a picture of your last slip and the OP could learn by your actions.....thanks.
Jim in Memphis

[theasphaltrv'er]

Op..IMO... Don't think your 1500, the way it sits right now, is stout enough for a 1/2 ton 5'er.
Let me tell you our adventure.
We ordered the stoutest F-150 w/HD payload we could (with how we wanted it configured). We had a 31' TT when we bought the truck. DW wasn't comfortable us towing the TT, in fact neither was I. I could never get the hitch dialed in. DW decided we need to downgrade so we decided to go with a smallish 5'er. We did a years worth of research, looking & crunching of numbers to make sure our little truck could handle a small 5er. It came down to a 28sgs or 26sab, both Xlite models. DW loved both their floor plans. Sales lady really tried to push the 28sgs on us, (cuz they didn't have a 26sab on the lot), but in the end, we felt it was a tad bit to much for our little truck so we went with a 26sab and are glad we did. The one we got is a perfect fit for our truck. We tow mostly in the Southern Rockies of Southwest Colorado and our little truck drags that 5'er up & down & around them there little hills (Molas, Coal Bank, Wolf Creek) with ease. We have pertnear 10,000 miles on it now. So make sure you do your homework & be 100% sure your truck can handle whatever you tow.


JMO
Milo

[fjr vfr]

Op..IMO... Don't think your 1500, the way it sits right now, is stout enough for a 1/2 ton 5'er.
Let me tell you our adventure.
We ordered the stoutest F-150 w/HD payload we could (with how we wanted it configured). We had a 31' TT when we bought the truck. DW wasn't comfortable us towing the TT, in fact neither was I. I could never get the hitch dialed in. DW decided we need to downgrade so we decided to go with a smallish 5'er. We did a years worth of research, looking & crunching of numbers to make sure our little truck could handle a small 5er. It came down to a 28sgs or 26sab, both Xlite models. DW loved both their floor plans. Sales lady really tried to push the 28sgs on us, (cuz they didn't have a 26sab on the lot), but in the end, we felt it was a tad bit to much for our little truck so we went with a 26sab and are glad we did. The one we got is a perfect fit for our truck. We tow mostly in the Southern Rockies of Southwest Colorado and our little truck drags that 5'er up & down & around them there little hills (Molas, Coal Bank, Wolf Creek) with ease. We have pertnear 10,000 miles on it now. So make sure you do your homework & be 100% sure your truck can handle whatever you tow.


JMO
Milo


What does the CAT scale say? You have weighed truck and trailer right?
I know your happy with it, but I'd bet when it's weighed you'll find cargo weight will be over the trucks limit, same with the gvwr. Don't forget to include the hitch's weight, both you and wife and any other cargo in the bed and back seat.

[itat]

What does the CAT scale say? You have weighed truck and trailer right?
I know your happy with it, but I'd bet when it's weighed you'll find cargo weight will be over the trucks limit, same with the gvwr. Don't forget to include the hitch's weight, both you and wife and any other cargo in the bed and back seat.

If theasphaltrv'er has the heavy duty payload package on an F-150, it’ll have a payload number in the range of an F-250 so I’m confident they are fine, but having upgraded in 2016 myself, I really prefer the bigger everything of the F-250 for towing. I just don’t like the the mpg it gets as an unloaded daily driver.

The OP has a payload of 1580# which is pretty typical for a half ton and quite good for a RAM 1500. They used to make 21’ and 24’ 5ers without a slideroom that a half ton would do better with but there are very few, if any, made today that your average half ton would not be way over payload when hooked up.

[wiredgeorge]

Want a 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel?


https://www.scamptrailers.com/showroom/19-deluxe-trailers/19-deluxe-trailer-layout-a.html#scamp-19-deluxe-specifications-features

[theasphaltrv'er]

I don't mean to high jack this thread...but

fjr vfr... FYI.... I haven't seen a cat scale in the 4 years of our travels with this combo. We very seldom travel the interstates and they don't have em near the areas we frequent the most. & Yes, I've have weighed it. We do have a sand & gravel company just down the road with a huge scale. & No, the truck does not tow over any of its limits, in fact this little 150 is stouter than our old 04 250 6.0 & allot of the newer 250 diesels. No matter what the numbers say.... it will be said by the so called "know it alls" that any so called 1/2 ton is not stout enough to safely tow a 5er. I disagree. So here's what numbers I do have.

Empty weights right off the lot
36 gal gas/me GWR

Front Axle 3520 4050 530
Rear Axle 2680 4800 2180
Total 6200 8200 2000
Payload Cap (per yellow sticker) 2172

Loaded weights 2017 ready to tow
36 gal /me/wife/yorkie/hitch/& all the little nick nacks (maps, garmin, cellphones, purse gloves detc)

Front axle 3580 4050 470
Rear Axle 3000 4800 1800
Total 6580 8200 1620

Everything is carried in the 5'er

5'er ready to travel

Pin Weight Dry/Wet 1190 1450 260 also scaled on a Sherline scale
5er axle Weight Dry /Wet 5890 6900 1010
5er Weight Dry/Wet 7080 8350 1270 GVWR 9960

Truck w/5'er 8030 LBS 8200 RAW 4450 4800
Combined weight 14,930 lbs GCWR 17,100

These weights taken from Sand & Gravel scale.

I don't believe any of the dry weights as stated from the company. Although we travel lite, according to the dry weights we don't carry anything. I didn't weigh it dry.
Said the dry pin weight was 1190 but I don't believe that was the actual dry pin weight. I believe the actual pin weight was at least a couple hundred pound lighter. Cuz the travel pin weight, I got, is 1450 lbs.

So may not be as accurate as a CAT scale but closest enough for the girls I date.

[fjr vfr]

Well that's a lot of numbers. Sorry they're confusing to me. We don't need to agree on everything. What really maters is that your happy with it. Wishing you the best with it.


BTW, Just an FYI, do a search on google or youtube, semi floating axle vs full floating axle. A 1/2 ton truck has the first and 3/4 ton the second. Thanks happy travel.

[notanlines]

I'll bet your scale is as good as a CAT scale. But can I get you to explain these figures for me.....thanks.
Front Axle 3520 4050 530
Rear Axle 2680 4800 2180
Total 6200 8200 2000
Payload Cap (per yellow sticker) 2172

[sourdough]

" it will be said by the so called "know it alls" that any so called 1/2 ton is not stout enough to safely tow a 5er. I disagree. So here's what numbers I do have."

I don't think everyone is going to say "any" (all) 1/2 ton can't tow "any" 5th wheel. Without numbers it is going to be very difficult to tow any 10k gvw 5th wheel with any 1/2 ton. Most won't. It is virtually impossible to make weights with a normal 1/2 ton and a 10k gvw tongue pull....been there and done that. The 5th wheel has considerable more weight on the pin.

You have some factors going for you in your combo and sounds like you did your research before you hooked it all up. Your truck has a large payload for a 1/2 ton AND your trailer has what I consider an low unloaded weight and a large carrying capacity. Looks like you've added about 1270 lbs to the trailer and virtually nothing (380 lbs.) in the truck. With a 1450 pin weight + the 380 in the truck = 1830 lbs. leaving you 342 lbs. under your payload.

Your situation is very unique to me. I've never been able to just put 380 lbs. in a truck for a vacation to save my life. Oh, I probably have for a trip in a car and stayed in a motel but not real life "camping". Having only 1270 lbs. in the trailer is also another anomaly but not quite so unusual IMO. If you have everything you need/want I guess that's perfectly fine. The problem is, as I alluded to in my first post, most folks won't be able to do that. I suspect most would use that 3k of carrying capacity in the trailer (or most of it) and load down the truck. A regular 1/2 ton, with a normal payload, with normal folks pulling a 10k trailer with 3k of carrying capacity, will not make the numbers and will be overloaded. THAT is the problem with trying to put a larger gvw trailer (especially a 5th wheel) on a 1/2 ton. That has always been, and continues to be, their weakness. It is far easier, and more accurate, to generalize that a 1/2 ton can't pull a 5th wheel except in very specific cases vs saying a 1/2 ton is capable of pulling a 5th wheel but you need to "watch" your weights. That is misleading to me, and more importantly to new owners, but, that's JMO/YMMV

Thanks for posting the numbers and clearing up all the speculation.

[itat]

Half tons have a very wide range of capabilities and trim levels. theasphaltrv'er said his F-150 has the HD Payload package. He said his yellow payload sticker says 2172#. So he has a payload equal to many diesel 3/4 tons. It’s much more capable than the vast majority of “half tons”.

That being said, I also agree that his F-150 won’t be as purpose-built as a F-250. I don’t recall the exact numbers but I think my ‘16 F-250 probably weighs 1500-2000# more than my ‘09 F-150 did and the 6.2L gas engine feels sluggish compared to the 5.4L in the F-150.

[Javi]

I guess some folks just got to have a "special" truck... :D

Personally, if I want to carry ton or more of weight I don't special order a "car with a bed" and stuff added to make it capable of hauling the load... I go buy a standard truck built to carry the load without additional expensive options.

But hey... life is a test... and 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels is question #3 :D

[theasphaltrv'er]

Quote from Jim in Memphis,
I'll bet your scale is as good as a CAT scale. But can I get you to explain these figures for me.....thanks.

Front Axle 3520 4050 530
Rear Axle 2680 4800 2180
Total 6200 8200 2000
Payload Cap (per yellow sticker) 2172

The 1st number is what weight is on each axle of the truck as it came off the dealers lot.
The 2nd number is the gross or max weight that each axle theoretically can handle & the 3rd number is what weight is left that could be addded.
Payload Cap (per yellow sticker) 2172, Theoretically that's the total extra weight I can put in the truck. Hope that answered your question.


Front axle weighed .... 3520 lbs unloaded. Weight on it could weigh as much as 4050. So there was 530 lbs extra that could be used. Hope that explains the numbers.

Quote from Javi:
I guess some folks just got to have a "special" truck...
I guess some do!

...Really I don't know how special it is. Our little F-150 is just a plain XLT Ecoboost like allot of the plain XLT trucks you'd find on any dealers lot except we added the HD package and took what came with that package. All we wanted it to do was to be able to tow our trailer safely and give us a ride with a whole lot of comfort. Mission accomplished. DW is one happy lady. Alls good.

[JRTJH]

...

But hey... life is a test... and 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels is question #3 :D

Ain't that the truth.... Sad part is that too many folks go through life with a "test crib sheet" with all the answers but never take time to even read the questions, much less understand the question AND the reasons for the answer. They just mark down what's on the crib and move on.... 1=a, 2=b, 3=b, 4=d, etc.

[travelin texans]

That being said, I also agree that his F-150 won’t be as purpose-built as a F-250. I don’t recall the exact numbers but I think my ‘16 F-250 probably weighs 1500-2000# more than my ‘09 F-150 did and the 6.2L gas engine feels sluggish compared to the 5.4L in the F-150.

Doubtful it has the 5.4 V8, most likely the EgoBoosted 3.6 V6!!
Which to me is as big a misnomer calling it a "tow vehicle" as it is calling a 10k+ rv "1/2 ton towable"! Just my .02 cents!

[JRTJH]

Doubtful it has the 5.4 V8, most likely the EgoBoosted 3.6 V6!! Which to me is as big a misnomer calling it a "tow vehicle" as it is calling a 10k+ rv "1/2 ton towable"! Just my .02 cents!

The 2009 Ford F150 had three V-8 engine options, A 4.6l 2-valve, a 4.6l 3-valve and the 5.4l 3 valve. The same engine choices were offered in 2010. The 3.5l eco-boost V-6 was not available in 2009 or 2010 and was not available until the 2011 model year.

I owned a 2010 F150 5.4l 4x4 and traded it on a 2013 F250 6.2l 4x4. Having owned similar trucks to the poster's comments, I can also attest that the F250 with the 6.2l felt "sluggish" when compared to the 5.4l in the F150. Part of that was, IMHO, directly related to the additional 2000 pounds of "truck steel" incorporated into the F250 when compared to the "light truck construction" of the F150. My F150 was "zippy on acceleration" where the F250 was "sluggish but stable when loaded and working" I think that was the point the poster was attempting to convey in his comparison. Having personal experience with both engines in similar trucks, I agree with his analysis.

[itat]

The 2009 Ford F150 had three V-8 engine options, A 4.6l 2-valve, a 4.6l 3-valve and the 5.4l 3 valve. The same engine choices were offered in 2010. The 3.5l eco-boost V-6 was not available in 2009 or 2010 and was not available until the 2011 model year.

I owned a 2010 F150 5.4l 4x4 and traded it on a 2013 F250 6.2l 4x4. Having owned similar trucks to the poster's comments, I can also attest that the F250 with the 6.2l felt "sluggish" when compared to the 5.4l in the F150. Part of that was, IMHO, directly related to the additional 2000 pounds of "truck steel" incorporated into the F250 when compared to the "light truck construction" of the F150. My F150 was "zippy on acceleration" where the F250 was "sluggish but stable when loaded and working" I think that was the point the poster was attempting to convey in his comparison. Having personal experience with both engines in similar trucks, I agree with his analysis.

Thanks, JRTJH.

In my previous post I was talking about the 5.4L engine in my 2009 F-150, not the 3.5L Ecoboost in theasphaltrv’er’s truck with the HD Payload package.

Before I upgraded, I considered the same truck as theasphaltrv’er’s but my trusted mechanic suggested I avoid the Ecoboost engine. I guess he’s seen some significant problems with it. I also wanted to have a truck that could handle my next RV that’s hopefully going to be a 5er with a loaded weight of not more than 10K#. The F-250 is a better fit for that task but I was disappointed that the 6.2L is not as snappy as the 5.4L was in that 2009 F-150. If the diesel wasn’t a CDN$9000 premium, I would have looked seriously at a F-350 SRW diesel. (IMO, a Diesel engine in a 3/4 ton robs too much payload and a 1 ton only costs about $1000 more.)

[sourdough]

Thanks, JRTJH.

In my previous post I was talking about the 5.4L engine in my 2009 F-150, not the 3.5L Ecoboost in theasphaltrv’er’s truck with the HD Payload package.

Before I upgraded, I considered the same truck as theasphaltrv’er’s but my trusted mechanic suggested I avoid the Ecoboost engine. I guess he’s seen some significant problems with it. I also wanted to have a truck that could handle my next RV that’s hopefully going to be a 5er with a loaded weight of not more than 10K#. The F-250 is a better fit for that task but I was disappointed that the 6.2L is not as snappy as the 5.4L was in that 2009 F-150. If the diesel wasn’t a CDN$9000 premium, I would have looked seriously at a F-350 SRW diesel. (IMO, a Diesel engine in a 3/4 ton robs too much payload and a 1 ton only costs about $1000 more.)

I think the sluggishness you feel is just the bulk of the 3/4 ton. I went from a 5.7L Ram 1500 to the 6.4L Ram 2500 and it's the same thing. The 6.4 can get with it but in a much heavier, more cumbersome vehicle it just doesn't feel as "snappy" or "nimble" - attributes that I initially did not want to give up but now I am so happy I did. As long as I tow I won't ever have a 1/2 ton again - way too many benefits over the smaller truck.

[Ken / Claudia]

Many years ago, when I purchased the current truck, the 2002. The before truck was the same with 3 differences, old was super cab vs crew cab, old was f250 vs f350 and the newer truck has a intercooled turbo. New truck is around 1,000 lbs MORE weight and is sluggish when compared to the older truck on take off. Not much but I knew the difference right away. Oh well, it's the way it is.

[itat]

I think the sluggishness you feel is just the bulk of the 3/4 ton. I went from a 5.7L Ram 1500 to the 6.4L Ram 2500 and it's the same thing. The 6.4 can get with it but in a much heavier, more cumbersome vehicle it just doesn't feel as "snappy" or "nimble" - attributes that I initially did not want to give up but now I am so happy I did. As long as I tow I won't ever have a 1/2 ton again - way too many benefits over the smaller truck.

No question you’re right about the reason for the sluggishness.

I see Ford will be dropping the 6.2L gas engine in 2020 and replacing it with a 7.3L gas engine. That should improve the “snappiness” but fuel economy will likely take a big hit unless they work some magic.

[goducks]

What gears are you running. I owned a 2010 F150 5.4 3.73 and it was doggy. I now own a 2018 2500 6.4 4.10. It's got more snap than the 5.4 ever had. With 7300 lbs behind the 5.4 it struggled. I currently tow 9300 lbs behind the 6.4 and off the line it's way crisper than the 5.4 was. Out in the real world of 5%-6% grades they feel equal.

[Javi]

My '15 F350 dually with 3:73 gears will light the tires off the line with an empty bed.. [emoji38]

[sourdough]

What gears are you running. I owned a 2010 F150 5.4 3.73 and it was doggy. I now own a 2018 2500 6.4 4.10. It's got more snap than the 5.4 ever had. With 7300 lbs behind the 5.4 it struggled. I currently tow 9300 lbs behind the 6.4 and off the line it's way crisper than the 5.4 was. Out in the real world of 5%-6% grades they feel equal.

Mine has 3.73. I wanted 4.10 but had to search hi and lo for a 2500 that had anything close to what I wanted....and it came with 3.73. I will be looking (am looking) for a 3500 with the 6.4 and 4.10s if I don't go diesel. The 2 1500s I had (2012/13) had 3.55/3.92 respectively.

[alpo]

Although this was previously mentioned, I do not know anyone who would travel with all three tanks full - maybe one (fresh water). I have found that I travel with all three empty, only filling the fresh water at or very near where I’ll be camping. Why would anyone travel with more than fresh water (except maybe to the nearest dump station upon packing up). That being said I believe the “Best” information a Poster might need is “actual” (from first hand experience) Pin weight of his/her example 5er loaded for travel (with Battery, Full LP Tanks, and Normal Gear and Supplies. If possible add the Pin weight with just fresh water tank full. It gets kind of old hearing the nay sayers keep referencing Trailer GVWR when I expect NOBODY actually travels with their trailers at that point. I have a 3/4 Ton Cummins Ram (by the way having the Cummins is a mixed blessing, you have ample power but the weight of the diesel reduces available Pin Weight) and I figure my next 5er will be really close on Pin weight. Something else I have found is that Manufacturer Stated Available Pin weight (door sticker) might be conservative, and not enforced by DMV. It is the GAWRs (front and Rear) and the trucks GVWR that you will be held to legally. In most referenced cases people have found they had more GAWR than Stated Loading Capacity. Yes it is safer the less you Load/Pull, but most of us use our trucks daily and a DRW One Ton Truck is expensive and tiresome for that purpose. I say stay within your weights (GAWRs and GVWR) and your skill and Safe Zones but get a Trailer you will enjoy, in some cases that may be close. If you plan on being a more mobile than stationary 5er you might want to be more conservative in your approach though.

[B4Dark]

Does anyone know how to jack my 26SAB Cougar with the MORyde CRE3000 suspension system to change a flat out on the open road?

[JRTJH]

I use a 4 ton bottle jack from Harbor Freight with a short block of 2x4 under the spring hanger. Don't jack on the axle beam, just under the spring hanger. Been doing this for almost 50 years with no damage to any axle, ever.

[theasphaltrv'er]

B4Dark on our 26sab, with the CRE3000 suspension system, we do as JRTJH does but it has only been for 40 + years that we’ve been doing it. Lol

Milo

[JRTJH]

That's 90 years between us. Now if a couple more have about the same length of time, we'll have been jacking axles on RV's longer than cars and trucks have been around. I guess we could call them "almost original covered wagons".....

[Blackrock]

I've got 60+ years experience if jacking up hay wagons count.

[rhagfo]

Although this was previously mentioned, I do not know anyone who would travel with all three tanks full - maybe one (fresh water). I have found that I travel with all three empty, only filling the fresh water at or very near where I’ll be camping. Why would anyone travel with more than fresh water (except maybe to the nearest dump station upon packing up). That being said I believe the “Best” information a Poster might need is “actual” (from first hand experience) Pin weight of his/her example 5er loaded for travel (with Battery, Full LP Tanks, and Normal Gear and Supplies. If possible add the Pin weight with just fresh water tank full. It gets kind of old hearing the nay sayers keep referencing Trailer GVWR when I expect NOBODY actually travels with their trailers at that point. I have a 3/4 Ton Cummins Ram (by the way having the Cummins is a mixed blessing, you have ample power but the weight of the diesel reduces available Pin Weight) and I figure my next 5er will be really close on Pin weight. Something else I have found is that Manufacturer Stated Available Pin weight (door sticker) might be conservative, and not enforced by DMV. It is the GAWRs (front and Rear) and the trucks GVWR that you will be held to legally. In most referenced cases people have found they had more GAWR than Stated Loading Capacity. Yes it is safer the less you Load/Pull, but most of us use our trucks daily and a DRW One Ton Truck is expensive and tiresome for that purpose. I say stay within your weights (GAWRs and GVWR) and your skill and Safe Zones but get a Trailer you will enjoy, in some cases that may be close. If you plan on being a more mobile than stationary 5er you might want to be more conservative in your approach though.

Well I have four tanks 1 FW, 2 Grey, and 1 black, I have traveled with three of the four near full as it was over 20 miles in the wrong direction to the nearest dump station, and needed to go over a mountain pass on the way home.

Well the "Nay Sayers" have a good point, to a point. Some trailers have HUGE payloads for their size, BUT others have extremely SMALL Payloads for their size. One must look at all the numbers Dry, GVWR and Possible Pin weight.

[Blackrock]

I've been pulling a Laredo 265SRL with a half ton truck since 2016 and getting down the road just fine.

[B4Dark]

JRTJH, when you say jack under the 'spring hanger' are you referring to where the U-bolts are around the axle tube or somewhere else like on the CRE3000 spring connection?

[JRTJH]

JRTJH, when you say jack under the 'spring hanger' are you referring to where the U-bolts are around the axle tube or somewhere else like on the CRE3000 spring connection?

I put the 2x4 block under the U-Bolt and put the jack head on the 2x4 and lift the axle with pressure on the U-Bolt. Invariably, after using the same 2x4 scrap a couple of times, it's got an indentation and fits the U-Bolt "perfectly"....

[MVBrown]

Pin/tongue weights are listed dry (nothing in the trailer). For instance my TT has a dry tongue of 550# yet when loaded for camping it comes in at 880#.
As you can see dry weights are a bit misleading.
I would not pull a 5er with a 1/2 ton truck.YMMV

Amen to that! When manufactures and dealers claim Half Ton you better think about three day old fish at the ocean. In other words it doesn't pass the Smell test.

[66joej]

I'll jump in with jacking axles. Back in 1972 we bought a new 22' Triple EEE TT (great TT and very well built by Mennonites in Steinbach MB). Had a flat and did the block under the spring hanger. So 2019 - 1972 = 47 years.

[MVBrown]

I personally would never jack an axle on a TT without first jacking up the frame, and supporting that. Then you can jack the axles. I use a "Safe Jack" https://safejacks.com/ along with a 6 X 6 to support it.

[cayovelez]

amoussenior,

I understand your reasoning on towing a "1/2 ton towable 5th. wheel". I will share my experiences with you, towing my Keystone Cougar 244 RLSWE 5th. wheel. with my Toyota Tundra. I have a 2016 Cougar 244RLSWE the dry weight on it is 10000 even, my pin weight from factory is 1270, but in reality was 1315. So, my Tundra was( I now have a 3500 silverado) very similar in towing capacity as your Ram. My numbers were very close to max without anything loaded on my camper. So, prior to me starting to tow my 5th wheel I did some mods on my Tundra, I added an extra leaf spring on the rear, I upgraded my shocks from bilsteins 5100 to 5160(dual reservoir) and installed Timbren suspension enhancer bumpers(better than air bags IMHO). So, with all this I started towing my 5th. wheel. It did ok in flat roads, however going up hills was very slow and the truck worked very hard. After 6 months of doing that i noticed a lot of wear in my truck that was more than usual. Going up hills with camper loaded was very painful and frustrating. Just my experience. Good luck.

[MVBrown]

amoussenior,

I understand your reasoning on towing a "1/2 ton towable 5th. wheel". I will share my experiences with you, towing my Keystone Cougar 244 RLSWE 5th. wheel. with my Toyota Tundra. I have a 2016 Cougar 244RLSWE the dry weight on it is 10000 even, my pin weight from factory is 1270, but in reality was 1315. So, my Tundra was( I now have a 3500 silverado) very similar in towing capacity as your Ram. My numbers were very close to max without anything loaded on my camper. So, prior to me starting to tow my 5th wheel I did some mods on my Tundra, I added an extra leaf spring on the rear, I upgraded my shocks from bilsteins 5100 to 5160(dual reservoir) and installed Timbren suspension enhancer bumpers(better than air bags IMHO). So, with all this I started towing my 5th. wheel. It did ok in flat roads, however going up hills was very slow and the truck worked very hard. After 6 months of doing that i noticed a lot of wear in my truck that was more than usual. Going up hills with camper loaded was very painful and frustrating. Just my experience. Good luck.

Remember that adding all that stuff does not change the GVRW at all. It may and probably does improve ride, but it has no bearing on the amount of weight the truck can tow.

[JRTJH]

Remember that adding all that stuff does not change the GVRW at all. It may and probably does improve ride, but it has no bearing on the amount of weight the truck can tow.

Actually, it reduces the amount of weight the truck can tow (pound for pound) based on the weight added by those "extra improvements" as they're installed. In other words, add a leaf spring, air bags and bumper stocks weighing 100 pounds and the payload goes down by that 100 pounds.....

[MVBrown]

Actually, it reduces the amount of weight the truck can tow (pound for pound) based on the weight added by those "extra improvements" as they're installed. In other words, add a leaf spring, air bags and bumper stocks weighing 100 pounds and the payload goes down by that 100 pounds.....

Yes, exactly! You really achieve nothing as far as towing goes, and can actually end up losing.

[SiniWisdom]

I'm just going to say it and yes, I may be sorry but I purchased a 2018 Ford F-150 with the towing package to tow a half ton towable 25RES. It's just me (150 lbs) and my 15 pound dog. I don't have a lot of gear and am very mindful of that. I plan to full time next year and spending this year getting used to everything. I previously towed a 19' TT with a Chevy Trailblazer, so this is an adjustment. I purchased the Cougar in Delaware and drove it back to Ohio with my truck. It did a good job even going through parts of the Allegheny Mtns. I did need the flashers as the big rigs did on some of the grades but the trucks have gotten more sophisticated in "tow mode" to make the adjustments. The Rocky Mtns may be another story but I am very cautious and will pull over if I need to cool down the truck. I have a friend that traveled the entire country in a F-150 towing a 27' Cougar and he had no issues. It was his advice that led me down this path. Hopefully we'll stay friends after I start my journey! :o)

[fjr vfr]

I wish to never hear what the base or dry weight of a trailer is. That is as meaningless as the surface of mars! Your trailer is never at that weight. The only figure that matters is gross weight. Also the listed pin or tongue weight is equally meaningless. It will be much higher. If it's a 5th wheel it comes in at around 20% of the trailers gross weight.
Example my Laredo 265rl lists pin weight at 1375 lbs. When I put it on the CAT scale it was 2000 lbs. That figure varies some according to how the trailer is loaded.


It also amazes me how many people go by the listed weights and never actually weigh their truck and trailer. It's cheap and easy to do. I beleave many don't want to know what it all actually weighs. After all ignorance is bliss.


Another point about 1/2 ton towing. Even if it seems to be doing the job the truck is wearing out much faster than a heavy duty truck. The rear axle is much lighter duty with half as many bearings supporting the axles. Smaller pinion and ring gears in the differential. Usually a lighter duty transmission and a lighter frame. It may be pulling the weight but it's taking more of a beating doing it. The fact that the truck is also at least a couple thousand pounds less than a heavy duty means the trailers weight can push it around more and have a greater effect on handling.
IMHO. :angel:

[CaptnJohn]

Half ton towable means you need a 3/4 ton truck.

[theasphaltrv'er]

CaptnJohn....Shhhhhh then don't tell my little 150 boost that it's only a 1/2 ton cuz it sure thinks it's a big truck. lol

[MVBrown]

CaptnJohn....Shhhhhh then don't tell my little 150 boost that it's only a 1/2 ton cuz it sure thinks it's a big truck. lol

Using a 1/2 ton to tow that RV is like using a condom with a hole in it. It gives you a false sense of security...

[MVBrown]

I wish to never hear what the base or dry weight of a trailer is. That is as meaningless as the surface of mars! Your trailer is never at that weight. The only figure that matters is gross weight. Also the listed pin or tongue weight is equally meaningless. It will be much higher. If it's a 5th wheel it comes in at around 20% of the trailers gross weight.
Example my Laredo 265rl lists pin weight at 1375 lbs. When I put it on the CAT scale it was 2000 lbs. That figure varies some according to how the trailer is loaded.


It also amazes me how many people go by the listed weights and never actually weigh their truck and trailer. It's cheap and easy to do. I believe many don't want to know what it all actually weighs. After all ignorance is bliss.

Another point about 1/2 ton towing. Even if it seems to be doing the job the truck is wearing out much faster than a heavy duty truck. The rear axle is much lighter duty with half as many bearings supporting the axles. Smaller pinion and ring gears in the differential. Usually a lighter duty transmission and a lighter frame. It may be pulling the weight but it's taking more of a beating doing it. The fact that the truck is also at least a couple thousand pounds less than a heavy duty means the trailers weight can push it around more and have a greater effect on handling.
IMHO. :angel:

Amen! The wear and tear is substantial. Also I would recommend that a 1/2 ton should have an UPGRADED (not stock) B&M transmission cooler or like product.

[theasphaltrv'er]

Using a 1/2 ton to tow that RV is like using a condom with a hole in it. It gives you a false sense of security...

You mean I can’t tow “that” RV with my truck. :cry: sniffle...sniffle. Then tell me which RV I can tow with my little itty bitty truck. If I can’t tow the one I’ve towing now for 5 years & a little shy of 10,000 miles, up, down & around the hills of Southwestern Colorado and the Southwestern USA, which RV do you want me to try & tow?
Also I guess I’ll need to get some duct tape. Gotta fix that hole in the condom. :cool: decisions...decisions...decisions!

[JRTJH]

You mean I can’t tow “that” RV with my truck. :cry: sniffle...sniffle. Then tell me which RV I can tow with my little itty bitty truck. If I can’t tow the one I’ve towing now for 5 years & a little shy of 10,000 miles, up, down & around the hills of Southwestern Colorado and the Southwestern USA, which RV do you want me to try & tow?
Also I guess I’ll need to get some duct tape. Gotta fix that hole in the condom. :cool: decisions...decisions...decisions!

If I remember correctly, your F150 is the HD version, not the "typical sales floor offering" and your Cougar XLite is either the smallest/lightest offered by Keystone that model year or it's in the "lightest two" offered. There is a big, BIG difference in your truck and something bought "off the lot" with "a towing package" and there's a significantly BIG difference in the 29' 7000 pound empty 26SAB and a 35', 9300 pound empty 32DBH. Both are listed as "half ton models" but it's not only dishonest to suggest they are "in the same category" (which is what Keystone's advertising suggests) and it's equally misleading to say, "I can do it with my F150, you can do it with yours too."

[theasphaltrv'er]

If I remember correctly, your F150 is the HD version, not the "typical sales floor offering" and your Cougar XLite is either the smallest/lightest offered by Keystone that model year or it's in the "lightest two" offered. There is a big, BIG difference in your truck and something bought "off the lot" with "a towing package" and there's a significantly BIG difference in the 29' 7000 pound empty 26SAB and a 35', 9300 pound empty 32DBH. Both are listed as "half ton models" but it's not only dishonest to suggest they are "in the same category" (which is what Keystone's advertising suggests) and it's equally misleading to say, "I can do it with my F150, you can do it with yours too."

JRTJH... Exactly ... There are posters on here & other forums that have it in their heads, a 1/2 ton truck can not tow a 5th wheel, that no matter what. :banghead:
They're either uniformed, misinformed or just plain too lazy to do any research or ask questions to find out the facts before stating their opinion. Some, even after having all the pertinent info explained to em, still want to argue that it isn't so and our truck isn't big enough for our 5th wheel. "That's battling wits with an unarmed person".

[rhagfo]

I wish to never hear what the base or dry weight of a trailer is. That is as meaningless as the surface of mars! Your trailer is never at that weight. The only figure that matters is gross weight. Also the listed pin or tongue weight is equally meaningless. It will be much higher. If it's a 5th wheel it comes in at around 20% of the trailers gross weight.
Example my Laredo 265rl lists pin weight at 1375 lbs. When I put it on the CAT scale it was 2000 lbs. That figure varies some according to how the trailer is loaded.


It also amazes me how many people go by the listed weights and never actually weigh their truck and trailer. It's cheap and easy to do. I beleave many don't want to know what it all actually weighs. After all ignorance is bliss.


Another point about 1/2 ton towing. Even if it seems to be doing the job the truck is wearing out much faster than a heavy duty truck. The rear axle is much lighter duty with half as many bearings supporting the axles. Smaller pinion and ring gears in the differential. Usually a lighter duty transmission and a lighter frame. It may be pulling the weight but it's taking more of a beating doing it. The fact that the truck is also at least a couple thousand pounds less than a heavy duty means the trailers weight can push it around more and have a greater effect on handling.
IMHO. :angel:

Well I strongly believe that "Dry" and GVWR both have meaning. Although listed somewhere it results in the Payload or Carrying Capacity of the 5er in question. In looking at post about "What can I Carry/Tow" I see a lot of larger 5er with very low Payload! I am talking 35'+ 5er's with payloads less than 2,000#!
Scaling can be free in many states as many DOT weigh stations are left active even when "closed". In Oregon they even have remote displays so you don't need to exit TV to scale.

[JRTJH]

JRTJH... Exactly ... There are posters on here & other forums that have it in their heads, a 1/2 ton truck can not tow a 5th wheel, that no matter what. :banghead:
They're either uniformed, misinformed or just plain too lazy to do any research or ask questions to find out the facts before stating their opinion. Some, even after having all the pertinent info explained to em, still want to argue that it isn't so and our truck isn't big enough for our 5th wheel. "That's battling wits with an unarmed person".

What you say about your truck is true, but it's disingenuous to make a blanket statement such as, "Shhhhhh then don't tell my little 150 boost that it's only a 1/2 ton cuz it sure thinks it's a big truck.", without qualifying that "your" F150 isn't the typical model but is the HD model. Most novice RV'ers have no idea that Ford even makes a HD model and most would (do) interpret such statements as meaning that "you do it with your truck, I can do it with mine too." That's where the novice gets "hoodwinked" by forum members who "brag about their rig without giving all the facts."

I'd urge you, if you're going to give advice to a novice about towing a fifth wheel with an F150, that you give them ALL the facts, not just the "headlines". Your F150 is not typical. When that concept first came out in around 1999-2001, it was called a "light duty F250," was "badged as an F250 but had the body/chassis of an F150. It was NOT a "SuperDuty." It looked like a F150 and was marketed as such. It was "classed between the F150 and the HD F250". The reason Ford stopped doing that was because of the confusion it caused with people buying the "cheaper F250" thinking it was a "true F250". Once Ford made the heavy duty package an option on the F150 model and discontinued the "light duty F250" the difference between the two suspension options was "lost in the shadows".

Your truck is, by the specifications, not an F150 nor is it an F250. While "badged as an F150" it's really more a "F200" than it is either a LD or a HD truck. Ford doesn't sell enough of them annually to pay for the chrome badges to rename it an F200, so it remains optional equipment for the LD truck line. Sort of like the Raptor, it's a "model all its own" not to be confused with what we all consider an F150.

[CaptnJohn]

What you say about your truck is true, but it's disingenuous to make a blanket statement such as, "Shhhhhh then don't tell my little 150 boost that it's only a 1/2 ton cuz it sure thinks it's a big truck.", without qualifying that "your" F150 isn't the typical model but is the HD model. Most novice RV'ers have no idea that Ford even makes a HD model and most would (do) interpret such statements as meaning that "you do it with your truck, I can do it with mine too." That's where the novice gets "hoodwinked" by forum members who "brag about their rig without giving all the facts."



I'd urge you, if you're going to give advice to a novice about towing a fifth wheel with an F150, that you give them ALL the facts, not just the "headlines". Your F150 is not typical. When that concept first came out in around 1999-2001, it was called a "light duty F250," was "badged as an F250 but had the body/chassis of an F150. It was NOT a "SuperDuty." It looked like a F150 and was marketed as such. It was "classed between the F150 and the HD F250". The reason Ford stopped doing that was because of the confusion it caused with people buying the "cheaper F250" thinking it was a "true F250". Once Ford made the heavy duty package an option on the F150 model and discontinued the "light duty F250" the difference between the two suspension options was "lost in the shadows".



Your truck is, by the specifications, not an F150 nor is it an F250. While "badged as an F150" it's really more a "F200" than it is either a LD or a HD truck. Ford doesn't sell enough of them annually to pay for the chrome badges to rename it an F200, so it remains optional equipment for the LD truck line. Sort of like the Raptor, it's a "model all its own" not to be confused with what we all consider an F150.



I too am well aware of the max tow and max payload packages available on Ford 150s. How many are out there, damn few. Just like I shot an elk with a 30 caliber rifle, a uneducated may buy a 30-30 to do the same when a minimum of 30-06 is required. Still don't think I could be a know it all smarta$$ about it though.

[fjr vfr]

Some years back Chevy produced a heavy half ton. I recall seeing a couple trucks with 8 bolt semi-floating rear axles, very rare though. I don't know much about them or the Ford version. When I bought my truck a few years back I thought I might go to a small 5th wheel at some point, so I didn't even bother looking at 1/2 ton trucks.
My trailers pin weight is 2000 lbs weighed and the gross is 10600, about 10200 weighed. I think my 3/4 ton is just big enough. If my trailer were any bigger I'd look to a 1 ton, although some of the newer 3/4 ton trucks have more capacity than mine.



I still think the dry weight is meaningless. Pick any trailer on the dealers lot and weigh it, I guaranty it won't weight that even empty. So why bother referring to it? I also believe everyone should weigh their trailer and tv. It's the only way to know with certainty...unless you don't want to know.
:popcorn: :whistling: :popcorn:

[schwalbach]

So loaded unit for first maiden voyage, also added 65 gallon tank to back of truck ahead of fifth wheel, along with full water tank on trailer and all gear, weights as follows:
2500 Chevy 6.0 gas everything loaded like I would run

2012 Super Lite 275sbh

Steer axle:4320
Drive axle:5580
Front trailer axle:3700
Rear Trailer axle:3500
Total weight of : 17100

Not seeing it 1/2 ton towable like the sticker I peeled off when new!

[Javi]

What you say about your truck is true, but it's disingenuous to make a blanket statement such as, "Shhhhhh then don't tell my little 150 boost that it's only a 1/2 ton cuz it sure thinks it's a big truck.", without qualifying that "your" F150 isn't the typical model but is the HD model. Most novice RV'ers have no idea that Ford even makes a HD model and most would (do) interpret such statements as meaning that "you do it with your truck, I can do it with mine too." That's where the novice gets "hoodwinked" by forum members who "brag about their rig without giving all the facts."



I'd urge you, if you're going to give advice to a novice about towing a fifth wheel with an F150, that you give them ALL the facts, not just the "headlines". Your F150 is not typical. When that concept first came out in around 1999-2001, it was called a "light duty F250," was "badged as an F250 but had the body/chassis of an F150. It was NOT a "SuperDuty." It looked like a F150 and was marketed as such. It was "classed between the F150 and the HD F250". The reason Ford stopped doing that was because of the confusion it caused with people buying the "cheaper F250" thinking it was a "true F250". Once Ford made the heavy duty package an option on the F150 model and discontinued the "light duty F250" the difference between the two suspension options was "lost in the shadows".



Your truck is, by the specifications, not an F150 nor is it an F250. While "badged as an F150" it's really more a "F200" than it is either a LD or a HD truck. Ford doesn't sell enough of them annually to pay for the chrome badges to rename it an F200, so it remains optional equipment for the LD truck line. Sort of like the Raptor, it's a "model all its own" not to be confused with what we all consider an F150.At one time they were called 5/8 ton... sort of a tweener [emoji857]

[JRTJH]

For those who may not believe that automobile manufacturers do some "strange market testing".... Here's a "itty bitty dually" marketed by Ford in around 2000, 2001. This is the first one I've seen in a long time, but here's proof that F250 DRW trucks do exist. No, I didn't get a photo of the GVW sticker.....

[CaptnJohn]

Ford stopped making short bed dually in 2009. If still being made I'd have an F350 sb dually.

[fjr vfr]

So loaded unit for first maiden voyage, also added 65 gallon tank to back of truck ahead of fifth wheel, along with full water tank on trailer and all gear, weights as follows:
2500 Chevy 6.0 gas everything loaded like I would run

2012 Super Lite 275sbh

Steer axle:4320
Drive axle:5580
Front trailer axle:3700
Rear Trailer axle:3500
Total weight of : 17100

Not seeing it 1/2 ton towable like the sticker I peeled off when new!


One more example of what I'm saying. The actual weighed weights are usually much more than the advertised weights.

You can not trust what the trailer manufacturers list as "half ton towable."
They want to sell trailers. The same can be said about the truck manufacturers. They want you to beleave your truck is bigger than it is.

[fjr vfr]

There are some after market people selling dual wheel conversion kits for 3/4 ton trucks.
They advertise in a few magazines.

[Logan X]

For those who may not believe that automobile manufacturers do some "strange market testing".... Here's a "itty bitty dually" marketed by Ford in around 2000, 2001. This is the first one I've seen in a long time, but here's proof that F250 DRW trucks do exist. No, I didn't get a photo of the GVW sticker.....

A Dually F250 with a Cummins sticker on the back window, priceless...