Broken window

[d0gb0ne]

https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/40643141_253588858623908_4996892259292020736_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=8679d30c88135f2bb35a92d9650ab678&oe=5C27598AMy bike hit the frameless rear vent opening window at the rear of my 2015 Cougar 28SGS 5th wheel, breaking it. Has anyone had one changed or would have some info on replacing it? it is on a hinge type rail and is an easy replacement.





http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/1

[Dave W]

Don't know the vintage of your Cougar but take a look here and look for your RVs year: https://www.trekwood.com/parts-search.php?model=Cougar&year=2018&category=Window&subcategory=Window+%28East%29&search-keywords=Item+%23+%2F+Keyword. Not cheap though!!

Alternative would be a local glass shop though the color probably wont match and you would then have to consider both sides for something close

[d0gb0ne]

Its a 2015 Dave, thanks for the info

[Dhuhn]

From what I’ve read from others you can’t just get hinged window you have to order whole window which isn’t cheep.

[Dave W]

From what I’ve read from others you can’t just get hinged window you have to order whole window which isn’t cheep.

You are most likely correct and why I suggested a local shop. The hinge and opener channels are simply glued on and can be removed for use on a new glass pane. When we had a SOB, several used their local shop after the brand became an orphan. A LOT less expensive, especially when you add shipping to the already high price for OEM

[d0gb0ne]

For sure Dave, we are being told that the whole window has to be replaced which is crazy and why? Even if we got the whole window we would just replace the hinged window. We are getting prices of $700-$800 before shipping and taxes.



Seems to me Keystone should step in on this. We are in the midst of getting one made from a local window shop and trying to remove the glass from the hinged rail.



What kind of glue did u use to hold the rail on? Epoxy?


Thanks

[Dave W]

H-B Weld always works

And since I have terminal CRS, forgot the obvious - a call to the window manufacturer. Ours are Hehr (http://www.hehrintl.com/Window%20Products.html) yours may be different but worth a call to maybe save a few bucks (Loonies?)

[chuckster57]

Seems to me Keystone should step in on this.

Thanks

I’m sorry, but really? You broke the window with your bicycle. What would you expect Keystone to do?

[ljp]

Off topic:

If that is Flex Tape you are using it will be very difficult to remove.

[notanlines]

I also wondered immediately what Keystone should do....why would they even be involved?

[cpaulsen]

Friend of mine broke his side window which is a 3 piece window and could not just that section either from a dealer or a glass company.....he had to buy the whole thing...700.00. The sections do separate easy.....some little set screws in the frame.

[JimMach1]

I’m with a few others I have never asked someone to fix something I broke. And still don’t complain about piddly things wrong with ours it’s a year old and we have found screws coming loose and screws pulling out of the walls and I fix them and move on. Working in the Ag industry you would be surprised at what they want warranted had a front tire throw a rock into the windshield and they fixed it under warranty another skid steer mower broke windshield and they warranted it. So it happens in all industries that’s why we have adjusters looking into so many fraudulent activities in everything we buy.

[flybouy]

Obviously you guys don't get it. Keystone should have known that a bike would be mounted loosley back there, while being driven down a bumpy road at high speed and did not protect the window. Actually I think they, Keystone, should pay to have an RV tech follow behind in a truck with at least one of every part ever put in a camper. Here's your trophy for being you.

[JimMach1]

So your saying if there’s not a sticker on the window that says if struck by window will break. It should be warranty? ��

[JimMach1]

Sorry meant if struck with hammer glass will break.

[sourdough]

Seems to me Keystone should step in on this. We are in the midst of getting one made from a local window shop and trying to remove the glass from the hinged rail.

I guess I'm aghast at that someone thinks the manufacturer is responsible for their misfortunes. But, as we progress with the progessive lifestyle, I'm sure "someone else" is always responsible for your poor decisions and the individual always has a "cop out" so someone else "is to blame". Sorry...you, me, everyone, is 100% responsible for the decisions we make on a daily basis....no one, NO one, else.

[flybouy]

Sorry meant if struck with hammer glass will break.

Yup, We have an ex son in law who would screw up everything he touched and every time he would say "I didn't know, no one told me that would happen". ALWAYS narcissistic, ALWAYS someone else's fault. And my response ALWAYS would be "Well here's your trophy for waking up on your own today Sunshine."

[Dave W]

What is this - jump all over a newbie thread?

I think some of you folks especially a member of the site team are being beyond harsh with a new member who may never come back and be a real contributor.

Did he really mean that Keystone should pay for this broken window? I think not. I believe his intent was that he felt Keystone should make items like individual window panes available, not forcing you to purchase an entire over priced 7-900 dollar unit

[JRTJH]

I'll make a couple of statements. Maybe they will "ring true" maybe they won't:

I can't believe the contractor that built our house 10 years ago doesn't have a replacement pump for the dishwasher he installed in our kitchen.... SHEESH He's a terrible and irresponsible builder!!! Now I've got to go out to a different supplier and buy a "whole replacement dishwasher".... DAMN !!!

I can't believe that the ER doc that stitched up my son's forehead last year didn't give us a box of band-aids when we were leaving. Didn't he realize he'd skin his knee when he fell off his bicycle yesterday? He has no idea of our future needs and didn't take care of us like he should have...

Sometimes, people "expect" more from a relationship than the other party "IN" the relationship has agreed to provide..... Case in point, Keystone is NOT like Ford Motor Company, they don't provide OEM windows or axles or starters like Ford. Keystone is "like a home builder" in that they buy things, windows, axles, air conditioners, refrigerators, and put them together and let someone else sell them. Sort of like "Handyman Home Builders and Century 21 Real Estate"..... Keystone, unlike FMC, doesn't have a 10 year "expectation" to provide replacement parts. In fact, you're extremely lucky if you can find any "last year OEM parts" at the beginning of the next model year run at any RV manufacturer.

I think a lot of the "angst" seen on this and many other forums is caused by "novice owners" (not defined by years of ownership) that have no idea what they have bought or who is responsible for maintenance/repairs on it.....

Your "home" isn't the builder's responsibility when the neighbor's lawn mower throws a rock through your living room window. The builder isn't responsible when you throw the rock either......

ADDED: So, to put it into perspective: Would you expect the contractor that built your custom home to have the bottom half of a window "in stock or available" for each home he's built during the past 10 years, or 5 years or even for those he's built in the last 6 months? Is he a "bad builder" because it's not available? About the only expectation most people would have for that builder is the name and maybe contact information for the window supplier. Why is the expectation for Keystone any different than for the guy that built your home?

[chuckster57]

I’m sorry, but really? You broke the window with your bicycle. What would you expect Keystone to do?

That was harsh? It was a simple question.

[Dave W]

John, your analogies are probably correct in most cases. But with that said, I would expect tha Keystone would have at least enough build information on an RV though several years and found via serial number, including what windows (the current subject) were installed by their supplier's part number. I would expect that with that part number an owner could at least buy a replacement single pane.

You mentioned your house - those windows are probably a common size - say 3-0 x 3-10 or something similar. Those are common sizes and available almost everywhere and by many local and national manufacturers and are directly interchangeable. Your RV - no idea how many window makers there are but very few and the sizes are not interchangeable.

A common US made vehicle - which ever model you choose - at least has a relatively easily found part number. I can easily find a part number on my '31 Ford roadster. Just try that with a low volume RV outside of accessories.

What I'm trying to say is that we RV owners have some expectations of being able to repair our RVs within a reasonable time frame and at a reasonable cost and to do this, to be able to access a decent parts or repair list. I, like many other long term owners, have learned how to bypass these virtually unregulated manufacturers and make things work. Others are casual or short term owners that rely on dealers or manufacturers for parts and service because there is no other choice for their needs. Then there is Keystone and to a point, Forest River that after they take your purchase dollars through some dealer, don't know or worse, care that you have a problem and that you need to take your problem back to your dealer for parts. Someday, these manufacturers may face a class action or, worse, restraint of trade lawsuit for making it beyond difficult for someone to buy parts- but I'm not holding my breath.

OK - something as simple as glass. A local glass company can make up a pane, but you still should be able to buy a single pane from the window manufacturer with a valid part number that you can find without pulling the entire window out of the sidewall.

'nuff said by me

[Dave W]

That was harsh? It was a simple question.

Yes, to me harsh especially in light of the OPs initial post and subsequent posts. It added nothing positive to his problem of finding and repairing his broken window

[chuckster57]

Yes, to me harsh especially in light of the OPs initial post and subsequent posts. It added nothing positive to his problem of finding and repairing his broken window

Had he said what he thought Keystone should do, then my post would have been more “positive” with the facts about RV parts and repairs.

‘Nuff said by me.

[JRTJH]

...
OK - something as simple as glass. A local glass company can make up a pane, but you still should be able to buy a single pane from the window manufacturer with a valid part number that you can find without pulling the entire window out of the sidewall.

'nuff said by me

Here is the OP's post: "For sure Dave, we are being told that the whole window has to be replaced which is crazy and why? Even if we got the whole window we would just replace the hinged window. We are getting prices of $700-$800 before shipping and taxes.
Seems to me Keystone should step in on this. We are in the midst of getting one made from a local window shop and trying to remove the glass from the hinged rail."

The OP isn't complaining that the part isn't available, he's complaining that he has to buy the "next higher assembly" in order to get what he broke. He has not stated that his dealer can't get it, he says it costs more than he anticipated or thinks is fair. He went on to say that it wasn't a warranty (defective) part, it's something that he broke accidentally.

We had exactly the same situation last year when a member with a torn gasket on a Dometic refrigerator door. He had to buy the entire door, the stick-on gasket wasn't available as a separate component. He had to buy a $300 door to replace a $3 gasket.

Also, remember that we can't order the brushes for the landing gear motor or for the stabilizer motors on our trailers either. We have to buy the entire motor, a $350 part if the $2 brushes fail).

Let's draw an analogy: My home builder installs a Whirlpool dishwasher. 2 years later the "film control panel" burns up. I call the builder and want a part number for the control panel. He tells me it's a Whirlpool, call them. I call Whirlpool, they tell me the control panel was replaced by P/N XXX which is no longer available and they have no parts in stock, but the entire door is available (next higher assembly). Is that my builder's fault or even his problem that I can't get the cheapest parts for my broken dishwasher and that I have to buy the entire door to fix a broken switch in the film panel?

Ford stamps "Motorcraft" on all its parts, GM stamps "Delco" or "GM" on all theirs, Chrysler does the same with MOPAR. THEY (unlike Keystone) maintain a warehouse filled with parts (and they sell them at a hefty profit). RV manufacturers do not use that same business model. They do not profit by selling replacement parts for their RV's. In fact, they won't even provide parts to customers, only to dealers and then, only in warranty situations. Ask your dealer where he orders parts, chances are it's from a place like Trekwood or a aftermarket supplier, not from Keystone. I'd suspect the only "Keystone parts" are those the dealer has to get because of warranty payment/reimbursement. Otherwise, I'm sure it's faster and cheaper to use his "alternate supply system". It's the same with every RV manufacturer.

RV manufacturers (or should we really call them RV builders) buy "standard parts for RV's" and assemble them. If you look at the windows on your RV they are marked HEHR or KINROSS (not Keystone) Same with the appliances, carpet, doors, flooring, etc.

If you want new carpet for your 10 year old Ford, go to the dealer, you can buy molded carpet, if you want a starter, you've got a choice, the dealer for Motorcraft or AutoZone for their "clone". For RV's, the manufacturer, like the home builder, doesn't stock, doesn't maintain and doesn't control what the component manufacturer does.

So, is it your home builder's fault that Lowe's stopped carrying Andersen windows and now carries Pella? Is it the builder's problem to find you a replacement 2 years after he built your home? Is it his responsibility or his problem if Andersen discontinues the window line that's in your home or even that Andersen chooses to only sell complete window assemblies? Is it the builder's responsibility to "force Andersen" to change their parts availabliltiy?

Then, along those lines, is Keystone any different than "Handyman builder" ??? Why would (or should) Keystone be responsible for the business decisions at Hehr or Kinross or for that matter Lippert? Keystone doesn't control any of them and if they were to start "demanding product support for their brand" don't you think the price of doing business would increase, making the price of Keystone trailers go up as well? Is it worth it to the average consumer? How much is "too much" and is it better to put that increased MSRP into more reliable tires or should Keystone "do battle" with Hehr to make "lower right window panels available at reduced cost" ??? Should Keystone do that with every component or just with lower right rear window panels? If they do it with everything, how much will that increase the cost of Keystone RV's? Would it be more than consumers (you and me) will pay? Will their "business model" change the price so much that they are no longer competitive? Will they price themselves out of business by trying to provide things that aren't a part of the building process? Where does "support begin and where does it end" when it comes down to the consumer paying for it? Is the MSRP even important or do we just buy things to buy them regardless of what they cost? (I know the answer, so do you). We'll drive 1000 miles to save $500 on the price of a trailer, then complain like hell that the local dealer won't bend over backwards to fix what we didn't buy from him. But that's another issue, not replacement parts. However it all boils down to the fact that we all (you, me, every buyer of an RV) pays for the convenience someone else expects when that convenience becomes a part of the company doing business, so stocking lower right rear window panels costs each of us whether we ever order one or not....

It's about business models, profits and company responsibility... Keystone isn't Hehr and that's not their profit margin.

Shouldn't the "complaining be done to the window manufacturer" ?????

My builder would likely stop accepting my phone calls if I persisted in "demanding he fix Whirlpool".... What should Keystone's response be in "running interference with Hehr" Should they stop doing business with Hehr and build trailers without windows? or change to Kinross windows and only make trailer styles that don't have big rear windows (Kinross doesn't make that same style window). Or ????

[flybouy]

Yes, to me harsh especially in light of the OPs initial post and subsequent posts. It added nothing positive to his problem of finding and repairing his broken window

To me John and Chuck are right on with this. You cannot compare the 2 industries. Cars are built to the design/spec of the mfg right down to the screws in the dashboard. RV's are built like mobile homes, assembled out of parts available to anyone and purchased by the train load. Ask the company who build your house and they won't have a replacement part for anything in your home and chances are they won't know what roof shingle, type of siding or anything else was used unless you spend the money for a "custom build" home and YOU spec those things out, then guess what, you already know.

As for being "harsh" and "added nothing positive" I didn't realize this was a feel good forum moderated by Mr. Rogers. Sometimes the truth can be harsh and needs to be in my opinion. You have your opinion as does everyone else on here. Forum, derived from the ancient Roman city by that name is used because it relates to the part of the city that was provided for public discussion on issues and rendering opinions on same. I have followed several forums and this is as without a doubt the tamest, most cordial one I've seen.

[rhagfo]

https://scontent.fxds1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/40643141_253588858623908_4996892259292020736_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=8679d30c88135f2bb35a92d9650ab678&oe=5C27598AMy bike hit the frameless rear vent opening window at the rear of my 2015 Cougar 28SGS 5th wheel, breaking it. Has anyone had one changed or would have some info on replacing it? it is on a hinge type rail and is an easy replacement.





http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/1

Well for the glass, a good local glass company should be able to get a new piece made and mounted.

As for how it broke;
If you are using that bumper mounted receiver to carry your bikes, you are lucky you still have them and the bumper!

Move the bike rack to the Pin Box, the bikes will ride better and be always in your sight.

https://i.imgur.com/XK7R3DO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2Mtwjzs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BUlygfO.jpg

[travelin texans]

I agree, this forum is very cordial compared to some others! I was banned for 2 weeks on another forum because, of all things, I disagreed with one the moderators on a good brand of tire, haven't logged back in since.
I don't think anyone was overly harsh, as Sgt. Joe Friday said " just the facts ma'am". If the OP feels mistreated that's too bad, but the window manufacturer is where he should been locating the glass not Keystone, they just pick it off a big pile & half a## install them.

[wiredgeorge]

This thread would be useful if someone has actually replaced a window pane in an RV and mentioned how it was done. I think it would be easiest to not try and restore the original function but make that a fixed window (I guess). Comments to these issues would probably help the OP a lot. I am guessing the original frame isn't going to open in some fashion to allow a piece of glass to be dropped in?

[Dave W]

I guess we can agree to disagree

But jumping all over a newbie - bad news on any forum.

Maybe I just ned a break from this site and reconsider other options if the prevailing attitude is to dump all over someone's legit question and statement

[JRTJH]

I guess we can agree to disagree

But jumping all over a newbie - bad news on any forum.

Maybe I just ned a break from this site and reconsider other options if the prevailing attitude is to dump all over someone's legit question and statement

If you choose to leave, I think I speak for the majority when I say we will hate to see you go, but you know your personal feelings better than any of us. Fortunately, the intrinsic value of the forum is in the "agreement" that it brings despite the occasional "disagreement".

It'll remain valuable to those who use it, those who leave, not so much..... :wave:

[JimMach1]

Yup, We have an ex son in law who would screw up everything he touched and every time he would say "I didn't know, no one told me that would happen". ALWAYS narcissistic, ALWAYS someone else's fault. And my response ALWAYS would be "Well here's your trophy for waking up on your own today Sunshine."

That’s funny we all all know someone like that. I worked with a guy who was plowing snow on the lot and hit several things one was a door to the shop we all saw him do it and he says “ I never hit the door “:.

[Dave W]

John - not leaving - just feel that I need a break from internet forums and have felt that way for a while.

Disagreement among people is normal, it was just the pile on attitude that has gotten a bit to pervasive here and elsewhere. It's part of the anonymous nature of the internet where you can say whatever you want with zero chance of repercussion beyond a 'site vacation' vs. in person where you might end up on the wrong side of a fist.

[chuckster57]

John - not leaving - just feel that I need a break from internet forums and have felt that way for a while.

Disagreement among people is normal, it was just the pile on attitude that has gotten a bit to pervasive here and elsewhere. It's part of the anonymous nature of the internet where you can say whatever you want with zero chance of repercussion beyond a 'site vacation' vs. in person where you might end up on the wrong side of a fist.
I for one am glad your not leaving. Sometimes a break is a good thing, and yes I have been on forums where you will get flamed for not spelling the make of your engine correctly. Keyboard warriors are everywhere, and you can take it or leave it but I will say the same thing on a forum as I would to a persons face.

NOW, 'nough said.

[madmaxmutt]

Motion Windows in WA made me a replacement for a previous trailer. I am not sure if they do frame-less, but it might be worth it to give them a call.

[mazboy]

if you have to order the whole window it isn't difficult to remove/replace. here is lippert: https://www.lci1.com/windows-and-glass

here is a place that specializes in rv windows...just maybe can fix your small window.
https://www.motionwindows.com/rv-windows/

[d0gb0ne]

Just thought Keystone should ask their window manufacturer to sell a 36 x 24 inch vent window that is very easy to replace and would be a lot cheaper than the window manufacturer making us buy a 72 inch by 40 inch window for $800., plus shipping a unit of that size.

[chuckster57]

Just thought Keystone should ask their window manufacturer to sell a 36 x 24 inch vent window that is very easy to replace and would be a lot cheaper than the window manufacturer making us buy a 72 inch by 40 inch window for $800., plus shipping a unit of that size.
That would be nice, but Keystone and all other manufacturers buy stacks of windows, and I bet if they break one installing, they just replace the whole thing. With all the different “parts” of different components that go into any given unit, you can imagine the logistical nightmare it would be trying to keep track of spare parts. It sounds like your getting it taken care of, and if I offended you I apologize.

[madmaxmutt]

Just thought Keystone should ask their window manufacturer to sell a 36 x 24 inch vent window that is very easy to replace and would be a lot cheaper than the window manufacturer making us buy a 72 inch by 40 inch window for $800., plus shipping a unit of that size.I am sure that would cost them $0.75 more per window. Or, they would be standard old RV windows that everyone would complain about.