Holding tank woes

[MattHelm21]

Well, I had hoped I’d dodge this bullet with my model but clearly not. I found something trying to poke through the coroplast right in front of my fresh water tank drain valve. I dropped a section of the coroplast at the side and took the pictures attached. A frame rail to frame rail cross member designed to support stringers running lengthwise directly under and positioned in front of a holding tank has failed. It looks like the crossmember which supports and positions the end of the tank is intact. Naturally we were planing on leaving on a trip to Florida this week and unless I can find someone to come out to fix it, I think the RV is staying at home as I don’t want to take a chance on losing a holding tank while underway. I spent the day calling every dealer and service tech I could locate and of course no one can get me in on this short a notice.

[JRTJH]

Slotted angle steel bar is available at any hardware store or Lowe's/HD. You can reinforce under the holding tank and reattach the coroplast.

If I were you, after adding the reinforcement bars, I'd travel with the holding tank empty to eliminate as much stress as possible, but when stationary, if you install sufficient angle steel, you should have no problems. Once home, then look for a permanent repair.

Here's one source for the steel bars: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Steelworks-6-ft-x-1-25-in-Plated-Steel-Perforated-Angle/3053567

[MattHelm21]

Thanks John. We just made the very hard decision to make other plans and leave the camper at home. I just don’t want to take any chances. I cut a trap door in the coroplast and dropped the side a little more so I could take more pictures and diagnose further. What I found was that the horizontal angle iron/crossmember failed in more than one way. It bent in the middle but also sheared the bolts off that held it to the frame rail and is now only resting on the lower horizontal angle in the frame.

I’ll update this post with the results of the repair. I put in a call to Keystone as my dealer which is 2 hours away had safety concerns about taking it that distance and suggested I contact them to find a closer one which could take me. The rep was friendly and wanted to have some pictures sent in so a tech could make an evaluation which puts me in a 24 to 48 hour wait period.

[SummitPond]

MattHelm21

Sorry for your troubles.

Question: Is your frame LCI or BAL?

When we took a tour of the Keystone facilities last year they were bragging on the new BAL being lighter and stronger and better made than the LCI frame.

[MattHelm21]

MattHelm21

Sorry for your troubles.

Question: Is your frame LCI or BAL?

When we took a tour of the Keystone facilities last year they were bragging on the new BAL being lighter and stronger and better made than the LCI frame.

My pin box is LCI so I’ll assume the rest of the frame is as well. I’ll admit to being very curious on how the BAL frames hold up. I’m not sure I’d be wanting to try them out the first year. On a side note, I was able to get a dealer appointment for the 27th so we’ll see how the repair goes then. I have another trip scheduled about two weeks later but I’m not holding out hopes that the repair will be complete. We may go right from the dealer to winterizing.

[JRTJH]

The BAL Ultra Frame is not used in any toyhauler or "full weight" model line. BAL Ultra Frame is a "lightweight frame" for use in the "XLite/UltraLite" lines.

Here's the link to BAL's site: http://norcoind.com/bal/products/oem/ultraframe/index.shtml

[SummitPond]

The BAL Ultra Frame is not used in any toyhauler or "full weight" model line. BAL Ultra Frame is a "lightweight frame" for use in the "XLite/UltraLite" lines.

Here's the link to BAL's site: http://norcoind.com/bal/products/oem/ultraframe/index.shtml

Thanks for the link and the background. We toured the Premier line; I never gave it a second thought the change wasn't across all lines.

[JRTJH]

Thanks for the link and the background. We toured the Premier line; I never gave it a second thought the change wasn't across all lines.

Although there are some significant differences in frame design, it's "fairly safe" to compare conventional Lippert frames to "old style automotive rail frames" and the newer BAL frames to "unibody construction"... BAL essentially eliminates frame rails, tube crossmembers, welded joints and painting after assembly. Their claim to fame is "formed, cut and sheet stamped" frame components that are "dimpled to interfit" and bolted together with Huck bolts....

To me (IMHO) that means cheaper, lighter, possibly less durable (jury is still out) and more profit for Keystone.... On the less durable part, I hope I'm wrong.....

As an afterthought, I wonder how structurally adaptable the BAL frames are to installing a receiver for either double towing or for even carrying a cargo tray/bike rack ???

[MattHelm21]

Well, its time to update this soap opera. Hopefully it can then be consigned to the forgotten threads. :) I was referred by my selling dealer to the Keystone main number or web site to select an authorized service center. Something which did not give me the warm and fuzzies as I’m sure you can imagine. I called Keystone who opened a case on it, requested I send them pictures and recommended dealers in my area I could contact. It was clear to me up front that this would not be a warranty repair. I’m over a year out. As it turns out, there is a local dealer I had been wanting to see if I could begin to work with. They do not sell Keystone but are an authorized Keystone Service center.

I contacted the service department and found out that from a wait perspective, my situation was not that bad since it would not be warranty work. They were able to get me in on 9/27(one month out) and had it was diagnosed by the following Monday. The repair was to fabricate a new(stronger) undercarriage for the tank system. This was not a bolt on setup but welded and painted using better components. The repair was complete within a week and we even made the Dover, DE NASCAR race by the skin of our teeth.

We are campers again. Albeit with somewhat lighter wallets. I do want to give a shout out to the service department at Garick RV in Oak Ridge, NJ. They handled everything in a timely manner and kept me informed throughout the process regarding the repair even allowing my wife and I to unload some items which we intended to load up in a rented motor home for our Dover trip(a waste since the work was completed in time for us to cancel).

[corsavair1965]

Looks like I have similar problem on Keystone Sprinter 332DEN. Purchased October 2017 and used just couple of times a year. On recent trip this month traveling at 65 MPH the 80 Gallon water tank fell out tearing out the Coroplast and all the insulation. Not sure why they would think sheet metal screws hold up over 600 lbs. Had to call a mobile road side repair ($330) who came out from 50 miles away. He was able to get the tank drained and raised the tank and frame back in place. He had to drill out the existing holes and used bolts and washers to make it safe again. Does not look like service agreement covers this. I will contact Keystone in regards to this but have my doubts as to what will be done. Have pictures of this as well as the emergency repair order.

Has anyone else had such an experience as mine????

[notanlines]

What 'service agreement' are you referring to? Curious if you have an extended warrantee or some agreement with the original dealer. I can hear the customer service people practicing their snicker right now. My prediction is you will be figuratively given the well known 'bird,' and then in polite language told to "Sit on it and spin." Just being blunt.
I know it is common practice, (And I'm sure there will be members who will chime in to the positive) but I would simply not advise traveling with the tanks full.
I believe Willie Nelson is best known for that phrase "On the road again." That's what's important. Good on ya!

[NH_Bulldog]

Looks like I have similar problem on Keystone Sprinter 332DEN. Purchased October 2017 and used just couple of times a year. On recent trip this month traveling at 65 MPH the 80 Gallon water tank fell out tearing out the Coroplast and all the insulation. Not sure why they would think sheet metal screws hold up over 600 lbs. Had to call a mobile road side repair ($330) who came out from 50 miles away. He was able to get the tank drained and raised the tank and frame back in place. He had to drill out the existing holes and used bolts and washers to make it safe again. Does not look like service agreement covers this. I will contact Keystone in regards to this but have my doubts as to what will be done. Have pictures of this as well as the emergency repair order.

Has anyone else had such an experience as mine????

I am more curious as to how/why many people haul over 600 lbs of water? I have been at this a long time and only ever travel with 5-8 gallons max, enough to flush the toilet or wash up on the road. One bump on the highway and that 600 lbs of water becomes 1,200 lbs or more.....just an accident waiting to happen

[corsavair1965]

Camping with no water supply requires a lot of water. Also pros and cons of running empty and full. Water sloshing back and forth when partial full causes some problems. The real problem is the inadequate use of screws vs bolted support. Why would they put 80 gallon capacity tank in and why not use bolts. Appreciate the input tho.

[sourdough]

Camping with no water supply requires a lot of water. Also pros and cons of running empty and full. Water sloshing back and forth when partial full causes some problems. The real problem is the inadequate use of screws vs bolted support. Why would they put 80 gallon capacity tank in and why not use bolts. Appreciate the input tho.


I think the answer to your question is simple; time. Time equals money. They seem to love self tapping screws. Unfortunately, a small 5/16 self tapping screw isn't going to hold up an 80 gal. water tank on a traveling/bouncing RV....or a dozen of them. If you try to replace the same 5/16 screws with nuts/bolts you will probably have the same issue again - they just aren't that stout or meant to carry 600-1200 "wiggling" pounds. If it were me, and I thought I would be carrying that much water consistently (which I won't), I would fabricate new supports and install no less than 1/2-9/16" nuts (nylock) and bolts (lots) to try to secure it.

[corsavair1965]

Appreciate input. Looks like New bolts and bracing are in order when I fill fresh water tank to capacity. Shame that the manufacturers don't have better things to do than make them as cheaply as possible at the expense of buyers. Evidently they really do not care about us.

[trucker LOU]

Hi All, when I got my 2010 Springdale 5er home & filled the water tank I observed about 2 1/2" sag in bottom of tank. I fabricated an angle iron brace under the tank from frame rail to frame rail. no more sag 120,000miles and still OK.---Lou--- pics I took of repair did not come out right...

[corsavair1965]

The good Sams extended service plan was purchased at time we purchased the new trailer. Does not look like any coverage as Camping world knows how to get around things like this with their service plans. Looks like it is all on me. Shame on Keystone to think an 80 gallon tank should be supported with 5 sheet metal screws. Probably same practice and all the trailer manufacturing plants.

[MarkEHansen]

I really don't get the "you should not fill the tank" responses. If you're going dry camping, you need the fresh water. Why on Earth would a manufacturer install a water tank which cannot be used?

I think if the tank can't support a full load of water while towing, the manufacturer should clearly state that in the owner's manual. Otherwise, we should expect it to perform. If it does not, it should be a warranty claim.

[sourdough]

The good Sams extended service plan was purchased at time we purchased the new trailer. Does not look like any coverage as Camping world knows how to get around things like this with their service plans. Looks like it is all on me. Shame on Keystone to think an 80 gallon tank should be supported with 5 sheet metal screws. Probably same practice and all the trailer manufacturing plants.


I also have the Good Sam's extended warranty and my trailer is in the shop at the moment having the galley holding tank replaced under the warranty - no questions asked.

I will say that the number one issue in getting warranty work approved, IMO, is the verbage used by the dealer when presenting it to the manufacturer or insurance carrier (I have the conversation every time I take a unit in for a potential warranty issue). There are certain watch words that will go a long way in getting it approved; a "failure" of a component; "replacement" vs repair, etc. Some shops are good about this and others just let the young service advisor, with zero experience, just "whip" something up and then....whoops! claim denied.

[LewisB]

Looks like I have similar problem on Keystone Sprinter 332DEN. Purchased October 2017 and used just couple of times a year. On recent trip this month traveling at 65 MPH the 80 Gallon water tank fell out tearing out the Coroplast and all the insulation. Not sure why they would think sheet metal screws hold up over 600 lbs. Had to call a mobile road side repair ($330) who came out from 50 miles away. He was able to get the tank drained and raised the tank and frame back in place. He had to drill out the existing holes and used bolts and washers to make it safe again. Does not look like service agreement covers this. I will contact Keystone in regards to this but have my doubts as to what will be done. Have pictures of this as well as the emergency repair order.

Has anyone else had such an experience as mine????

Absolutely! We just traded in a 2008 Keystone Raptor 3712TS toy hauler in which I had a very similar problem. Fortunately, ours happened in the back yard as we were preparing to leave. While filling the 120 gal. water tank, something "popped" and I noted the coroplast hanging down. When inspected, the "bows" holding the water tank in place had been fastened from the bottom up to the frame cross member using self-tapping sheet metal screws. Four (4) bows, 8 sheet metal screws, holding roughly 900 pounds of water.

We just purchased a new 2018 Raptor 353TS (last week) - I had been in hopes Keystone might have improved their build quality by now. Sounds like it would be a good idea to remove the coroplast on the new rig for a structural inspection!