Ranking Keystone models

[Thomasbeau]

This may seem like an odd question, but is there a listing someplace which lists the various Keystone models by level of luxury/quality. I'm curious to know how all the models rank and where my new Hideout fits in the hierarchy.

[busterbrown]

Simply put, Hideouts, Bullets, and Passports are all value-driven coaches. The luxury lines would include Montana 5th wheels and Raptor TH's. Most of the other brands fall somewhere in the middle.

[Thomasbeau]

Are the differences in the overall build quality or the additional amenities added? I'd hate to think we made a mistake by going with a Hideout. We noticed immediately that the cabinetry was not of the highest quality but that was a non-issue. The biggest thing that bothered us was the lack of pistons to hold up the overhead cabinet doors when opened. Having to hold the doors open with one hand drove us nuts. I added pistons to them myself the first week we owned the unit. Other things we feel the Hideout needs help with is cheap plumbing fixtures, a lack of electrical outlets and a range top that needs to be lit with a match. Otherwise we found the unit very acceptable. Hopefully they didn't skimp on the build of the frame or chassis?

[busterbrown]

Are the differences in the overall build quality or the additional amenities added?... ...Other things we feel the Hideout needs help with is cheap plumbing fixtures, a lack of electrical outlets and a range top that needs to be lit with a match. Otherwise we found the unit very acceptable. Hopefully they didn't skimp on the build of the frame or chassis?

With my Bullet, I came to the conclusion after purchase that I would just upgrade as I saw fit along the way. Cosmetically, an owner can do most of the little things. But it goes deeper than cheap faucets and lack of outlets.

Read about my troubles over the weekend...

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34888

I spoke with a very experienced and reputable trailer axle and suspension shop this morning. A 40 year veteran there told me that most people buy a coach because it has a fancy pretty LED strip under the countertops or a fireplace below the TV. People rarely look at the underpinnings or internal structure of the coach prior to purchase. It's just fact. I didn't. And if you walk around an RV show, you'll see that most people don't even care about axle or frame size, or even more important tire fitments. It's the aesthetics that sell units.

Ultimately, I'll end up spending thousands next year to upgrade everything below the frame rails.

[sourdough]

When pulling up RVs Keystone used to place each model under headings of "standard", "select" or "premium". You could then tell where each model stood in the pecking order. They have changed that in the last 2-3 years and they've made it much more difficult to determine where each model fits. You either have to look at all of them very closely in person or read the information on them very closely. It appears they don't want to have any of the models appear as "economy" units although some clearly are when compared side by side.

I am attaching a link to Keystone's website that has the brochures for the Hideout, Montana and Montana HC. You will have to download and open them. I downloaded them but am unable to provide a link because they are on my desktop. Read them carefully to discern the different wording and terminology as they try to differentiate the levels of the trailers. I pulled up the Hideout east coast brochure.

https://www.keystonerv.com/lead-activity-forms/request-brochure/thank-you/?p=3255,3281

[JRTJH]

As Danny posted, "Keystone used to...." but their marketing department is currently taking a different approach to how the portray their RV lines.

The information is still available, you just have to do some "sleuthing" to find it. On the Keystone website, if you click on "showroom" a new page will open with all of the brands listed alphabetically. Under each brand are three categories: Starting MSRP, Starting Length and Starting Weight.

You can essentially use the MSRP and length to determine the "price per foot" of each brand and each model. You can't use "only the MSRP" because a trailer line starting at 16,000 and a trailer line starting at 23,000 may not reflect the cheapest built (yes, I used "cheapest" to describe it purposely) trailer may not be the 16,000 one if that line starts at 16' and the 23,000 line starts at 30'. Calculating the two, the "cheapest" trailer would be the 23,000 line at 766 per foot vs the 16,000 line at 1,000 per foot.....

Put on your "Sherlock spectacles" and do your homework.....

Start here: https://www.keystonerv.com/showroom/

[bobbecky]

Are the differences in the overall build quality or the additional amenities added? I'd hate to think we made a mistake by going with a Hideout. We noticed immediately that the cabinetry was not of the highest quality but that was a non-issue. The biggest thing that bothered us was the lack of pistons to hold up the overhead cabinet doors when opened. Having to hold the doors open with one hand drove us nuts. I added pistons to them myself the first week we owned the unit. Other things we feel the Hideout needs help with is cheap plumbing fixtures, a lack of electrical outlets and a range top that needs to be lit with a match. Otherwise we found the unit very acceptable. Hopefully they didn't skimp on the build of the frame or chassis?

Even our 2012 Montana didn't have door supports for the cabinets with doors hinged at the top, had to do as you and add them myself. Just remember, the more 'luxury' you add, the more the rig is going to weigh, so not only quality is a factor but everything is a compromise for a reason.

[Pull Toy]

Alpine and Montana have always been considered the "Top of the line" Keystone offerings in non toy boxes.

Based on 5 years of ownership on my current 2013, 3535RE I can state the following without reservation. I have owned "Box" campers since 1970and my Alpine is top shelf in both trim and fit and finish. All of my appliances and fittings are name brand, high end stuff. My TVs and sound system are SAMSUNG, not XYZ, (maybe surplus, discontinued sh*t), and my interior lighting is factory LEDS, not retrofits upgrades too! My woodwork is "Cabinet Maker" quality solid Cherry wood, hand fit and finished, and hand rubbed, and my extras are included, not dealer retrofit add ons, that may or may not work to buyers desired levels. ( Second A/C, Heat Pump, fireplace/aux.electric heater Integrated climate control, dual zone thermostat.

I definitely don't consider myself a "5'er snob", and those who know me on this site can vouch for that. I bought an ALPINE ( plus the mortgage) because I wanted a "High End" second home, not a particle board POS with staples, not tongue in groove, and unknown namebrands. DO you want premium appliances" and quality? Just pull out a drawer and TRULY inspect it! It is the tell-tale of build quality!

p.s. You get what you pay for, there ain't no free lunch. (Chevy vs Caddy, they're both great!) The frames are all Lippert. It's what's above the I-beam that creates your dream home! Just decide your BUDGET is, and go from there. Don't overextend for a NAME BRAND, you only get one chance to get it right!

GOOD LUCK,

[Canonman]

We're pretty happy with our Cougar. Not a high end trailer for sure, but it had all the features we wanted at a price we could live with.
Here's a video you might find interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6nlnInrxgg&t=6s

[Thomasbeau]

I have to say that it's been over a month now since we bought the Hideout. After doing some homework it seems to me that the Hideout is the least expensive in the Keystone line. We didn't realize that when we purchased but loved the floor plan and for the DW that was the one.

We have been on two weekender trips with it so far with zero issues. We have made some mods to a lot of the internal amenities to make this similar to the 2005 Wildcat 5'er we traded in. Probably spent another $1000 to bring it up to what we wanted but to us well worth it. It's the perfect rig for us right now. So as long as the structural build quality is up to par I'm thinking we're good.

[Laredo Tugger]

We traded a FR TT for our used Laredo 350FB.
We were looking at a new FR 5er that, but looking back it was nowhere near the quality of the Laredo.
I'm not sure where Laredo falls in the pecking order of the Keystone lineup,but it is more than enough trailer and quality for me.
RMc

[wiredgeorge]

My 5ver is the highest quality and best ever built... hold on a few minutes while I go out and look at what the model is; it is on the decals and the specific model is written next to the door. Just an FYI, unless an owner is really mad about unit issues, they will crow to the world that their buying choice was better than sliced bread.

[travelin texans]

We have what has become Keystones premium 5th wheel in the last couple years, the Redwood line, & my '13 is very nice as far as fit/finish, all wood cabinets, plywood not OSB flooring, still suffering from lack of QC on little things like all rvs, but was lacking in the suspension/tire area. I've upgraded all the shackles, wet bolts, added disc brakes & H rated tires, which by the way most of these are standard now, making it a very nice 5er.
I totally agree, if more folks would read a few different forums like this one BEFORE buying any rv they'd learn to look under them before being awestruck by all the bling inside.

[wiredgeorge]

That phony fireplace and tv popping up from a cabinet via remote control makes me almost want to spend my money on a "premium" trailer. Then I find out they are all pretty much built the same way with the same just-barely getting by suspensions, framing and insulation, I come back to earth. If you want top of the line, look at these bad boys:
https://luxefifthwheel.com/

Check out prices on rvtrader for a new rig. NOTHING under $150K Geesh, that is more than we paid for our house! (it has been a few years though)

[AbHDToyHauler]

That phony fireplace and tv popping up from a cabinet via remote control makes me almost want to spend my money on a "premium" trailer. Then I find out they are all pretty much built the same way with the same just-barely getting by suspensions, framing and insulation, I come back to earth. If you want top of the line, look at these bad boys:
https://luxefifthwheel.com/

Check out prices on rvtrader for a new rig. NOTHING under $150K Geesh, that is more than we paid for our house! (it has been a few years though)

Their "top of the Line " toy hauler didn't seem all that much better then my Fuzion to me? A few things looked good but for the most part seems to be the same unit for big money. LOL To each their own.

[wiredgeorge]

I think they use Amish craftsmen to build them and pay those folks $153 and hour!

[JimMach1]

That phony fireplace and tv popping up from a cabinet via remote control makes me almost want to spend my money on a "premium" trailer. Then I find out they are all pretty much built the same way with the same just-barely getting by suspensions, framing and insulation, I come back to earth. If you want top of the line, look at these bad boys:
https://luxefifthwheel.com/

Check out prices on rvtrader for a new rig. NOTHING under $150K Geesh, that is more than we paid for our house! (it has been a few years though)

We looked at luxe line but then I woke up to reality that we just weekend for now. We are happy with the cougar line. I agree with you George if you don’t have issues or are willing and able to deal with them yourself you can be happy with any keystone.

[Dadmech]

Even our 2012 Montana didn't have door supports for the cabinets with doors hinged at the top, had to do as you and add them myself. Just remember, the more 'luxury' you add, the more the rig is going to weigh, so not only quality is a factor but everything is a compromise for a reason.
If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the door pistons from?
Our 2018 Hideout 38FDDS didn't come with them either.
Thanks!

[bob91yj]

I'm not sure where our Outback falls in the pecking order, compared to comparable trailer floor plans I've looked at (there are only so many 37' 9" bumper pulls out there), I've been more than happy with our trailer. I still think I have the best floor plan for our needs in this size trailer.

[xrated]

We've been looking at a Raptor 426TS, but someone in South Carolina just cheated us out of a chance to get it..........maybe the next drawing! :D

[ken56]

Bought a 2017 Laredo travel trailer and have been very satisfied with its quality. Warranty issues were over the LED lights and a plugged up vacuum breaker for the black tank rinser. I did a few things to make it more suitable for us like adding 2 shelves in the pantry, I made a divider in the under bed storage compartment to accommodate our cats litter box (yes, I do wish there had been another place to put it), put door props on the upper cabinets, carpeted the front pass through storage compartment with indoor/outdoor stuff. Its been a great unit really and the floor plan is the best for us.

[Thomasbeau]

Here are the door pistons I purchased for our Hideout. Worked perfectly.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0156P6YVC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[sourdough]

When pulling up RVs Keystone used to place each model under headings of "standard", "select" or "premium". You could then tell where each model stood in the pecking order. They have changed that in the last 2-3 years and they've made it much more difficult to determine where each model fits. You either have to look at all of them very closely in person or read the information on them very closely. It appears they don't want to have any of the models appear as "economy" units although some clearly are when compared side by side.

I am attaching a link to Keystone's website that has the brochures for the Hideout, Montana and Montana HC. You will have to download and open them. I downloaded them but am unable to provide a link because they are on my desktop. Read them carefully to discern the different wording and terminology as they try to differentiate the levels of the trailers. I pulled up the Hideout east coast brochure.

https://www.keystonerv.com/lead-activity-forms/request-brochure/thank-you/?p=3255,3281


Just wanted to resurrect this old post:

As this thread alluded to, Keystone is apparently working very hard to make sure they don't differentiate between their various lines by price point or quality delineations, which is unfair IMO. I DO believe in "you get what you pay for". Seems they worry more about weight and what can pull this or that.

All that to say; I keep thinking I'm going to "upgrade" my trailer so I keep looking.....and looking. Just trying to get Keystone to enlighten me on "their" definition of the quality levels of their various models, I sent a detailed request to Keystone customer service/owner relations.....over 2 weeks ago with no response.

Although I think it would be a service to Keystone owners, and potential owners, to know the quality levels of the units they buy and how they fit in the "pecking order" (including all the "upgraded amenities/construction" to make them more luxurious) so they can determine what they want, it is painfully apparent that they have determined that they want to blur the lines so you don't have any idea if you are getting a top of the line unit or not. What to do? The only thing I can think of, and for the consumer it is ridiculous, is to look at any/all of them so you can compare. I would also suggest talking to the service manager at your dealership. Salesmen are questionable; the ones I've talked to (and I always stipulate the biggest and nicest the manufacturer makes) will ALWAYS take you to the best unit.....THAT THEY HAVE. If they don't have a better unit, they don't even mention them. Appears we just have a crap shoot any more.

[Logan X]

I knew my Hideout was entry level when we bought it. It was our first RV and we have small kids that like to tear stuff up, so entry level is what I was looking for. I have been impressed with this trailer. We have had it for almost 3 years and we have camped in it about 30 or 40 times. There have been no major issues and my four kids aren’t known for being gentle with stuff. All of the essential systems and the build quality (the frame, suspension, etc) have been great. Any small thing that went wrong or something cheap we wanted to upgrade, I was able to do myself. My main complaint is the C load rated tires it came with. I haven’t had a problem with them but I am going to upgrade them soon.

[JRTJH]

Keystone has "hidden the quality" very well. No longer can you find the designations, Standard, Deluxe and Premium. But, alas, all is not lost.... You just have to do some division to get to the designation.... How??? you ask ???

Easy, go to the Keystone webpage and select TRAILERS, FIFTH WHEELS, TOY HAULERS or DESTINATION TRAILERS. A listing (alphabetically arranged) will "magically appear".... Just below each brand you'll find, "MSRP starting at" and "LENGTH starting at"....

Take the starting length and divide that into the starting MSRP and it will give you the "MSRP per foot" You can use that value to determine which of the trailers is the least expensive (entry level) and rank them "up the Keystone lineup" by price per foot. While not "absolutely foolproof" as a means of determining quality, it is a way to determine which trailer costs more per foot, an indication of component cost, amenities included and features....

As an example, on the first TRAILER page, the first brand is listed as BULLET with a MSRP starting at $18912 and length starting at 19'6". So the starting MSRP/length would be 18912/19.5 giving a price per foot of $964.90

The Cougar Half Ton MSRP starts at $29057 and length starts at 25'11". That's a MSRP/length of $1120.59

The Springdale MSRP starts at 16762 and length starts at 21'5". That's a MSRP/length of $659.51.

The Hideout MSRP starts at 16703 and length starts at 21'5". That's a MSRP/length of $657.19.

So, when comparing these four trailers, the Hideout and the Springdale are "comparable" and the Bullet comes in next highest and the Cougar Half Ton comes in as the most expensive.

If you use this formula to compare price per foot for the models, you can get a fairly accurate assessment of where each fits in the Keystone lineup.

ADDED: When comparing fifth wheel models, the Springdale MSRP/length is around $1151/foot while the Montana is around 2134/foot, a clear difference of almost double the price per foot. The other fifth wheels fall between those two except the Hideout which is slightly less per foot than the Springdale. Hideout is priced around $1036/foot.

[SummitPond]

Here is my attempt at using John's logic for the travel trailer line. The ranking columns are for $/foot (from highest price to lowest, assuming that would be highest quality to entry level) and for weight in pounds/foot (just for information) from lightest weight to heaviest.

Thank you, John, for the idea.

Edit: noticed I had a typo in one of the model lines and a wrong equation.
Edit 2: Thank you gegrad - I'm blaming my typos on my new glasses!:banghead:

[Gegrad]

Here is my attempt at using John's logic for the travel trailer line. The ranking columns are for $/foot (from highest price to lowest, assuming that would be highest quality to entry level) and for weight in pounds/foot (just for information) from lightest weight to heaviest.

Thank you, John, for the idea.

Edit: noticed I had a typo in one of the model lines and a wrong equation.

Premier length is wrong. Website shows its starting length as 24.25', which makes its cost/ft $1142.59, higher than the Cougar. Actually makes Premier #5, after the two Outback models, Sprinter, and almost dead even with Laredo.

[SummitPond]

Here are my numbers for the 5th wheels and toy haulers. Hopefully I have my glasses on straight!

[Gegrad]

Thanks for the work Summit! Very handy tables!

Also fascinating that Cougar is behind Laredo in the TTs but ahead of Laredo in the 5th wheels

[Gegrad]

I also love how the table/website says the raptor starts at $94,XXX, when real life is nowhere close to that. See this 2019 426TS, listed for $69,750, and I have been to this dealer; I can guarantee you would pay a little less than that for the unit.

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2019-Keystone-Raptor-426TS-5003268805

[JRTJH]

Ken,

A question on your toyhauler chart. Did you separate the travel trailer TH's from the fifth wheel TH's. ??? There's a significant difference in the Impact 5'ers and the Impact TT line pricing.....

Gegrad,

MSRP is a "starting point" for looking and comparing... Almost every RV sold goes for 25-35% off MSRP, some substantially more than that, depending on dealer incentives, business models and buyer's luck....

[Gegrad]

Gegrad,

MSRP is a "starting point" for looking and comparing... Almost every RV sold goes for 25-35% off MSRP, some substantially more than that, depending on dealer incentives, business models and buyer's luck....

Oh, I know.. my comment was just more toward the "eyes rolling" nature of how much less they are in real life than the "starting MSRP" listed on the website.

[SummitPond]

Ken,

A question on your toyhauler chart. Did you separate the travel trailer TH's from the fifth wheel TH's. ??? There's a significant difference in the Impact 5'ers and the Impact TT line pricing...

John

For the ranking, no. I never gave it a second thought as I don't have a TH and as such I didn't think to differentiate. I just used the "starting at" prices listed on the showroom page (https://www.keystonerv.com/showroom/) per your suggestion. I tried your instructions but didn't see any prices, so with further poking around I found the showroom page with prices.

Ken

[sourdough]

I would just add that a person needs to lay eyes, and hands, on any trailer to assess their opinion of "quality" and the amenities any given RV provides to said person. I like, and insist, on many things; some may not, and some may want more, and some of those things important to me may be totally silly to others. It just makes us look at more trailers, and more in depth....not a bad thing if you have time.

[SummitPond]

Oh, I know.. my comment was just more toward the "eyes rolling" nature of how much less they are in real life than the "starting MSRP" listed on the website.

Gegrad, I know what you mean. We were at CW today (spending a coupon; smart marketing on their part) and decided to take a look at some of the bigger Keystone units that were out. We happened upon a Sprinter Limited 319MKS that my wife fell in love with (oops!) Fortunately (for the pocketbook) it is a tad too much trailer for our TV. They had the price listed at about $51K, yet when we got home she found it on CW's web site for about $29K. Go figure!

It strikes me as strange - this trailer is listed as "new" in the 2018 catalog, yet the web site says "stock only" which to me means it is being discontinued. I wonder what the issue is? For us it would be a great floor plan (but there's always that issue with the TV).

[JRTJH]

John

For the ranking, no. I never gave it a second thought as I don't have a TH and as such I didn't think to differentiate. I just used the "starting at" prices listed on the showroom page (https://www.keystonerv.com/showroom/) per your suggestion. I tried your instructions but didn't see any prices, so with further poking around I found the showroom page with prices.

Ken

The only reason I asked is that fifth wheels are inherently more expensive than travel trailers. That's because of the more complex front frame/pinbox on the 5ths. Impact has both TT and 5th wheel toy haulers. If someone is looking at your chart comparing the impact you calculated (TT) and they're interested in a 5th wheel, then the ranking would be substantially different. To me (and to you, since you don't have a TH either) it's not important, but to someone looking at Impacts, the ranking for TT's may be totally different than for 5'ers. No need to change anything, I'm just tossing it out there that TH TT's and 5'ers aren't ranked the same just like any other line may not be ranked the same in TT's and 5'ers.

Great job building a spread sheet BTW !!! Thanks

[sourdough]

Gegrad, I know what you mean. We were at CW today (spending a coupon; smart marketing on their part) and decided to take a look at some of the bigger Keystone units that were out. We happened upon a Sprinter Limited 319MKS that my wife fell in love with (oops!) Fortunately (for the pocketbook) it is a tad too much trailer for our TV. They had the price listed at about $51K, yet when we got home she found it on CW's web site for about $29K. Go figure!

It strikes me as strange - this trailer is listed as "new" in the 2018 catalog, yet the web site says "stock only" which to me means it is being discontinued. I wonder what the issue is? For us it would be a great floor plan (but there's always that issue with the TV).

Beware of "new" models that you don't see on the website but say "stock only". I bought ours because it was a high end unit and limited...the only travel trailer I ever saw listed as "premium" on the website. Bought March 14; in August 14 when I had the fenders self destruct "again"....they were then discontinued - and they never had a premium travel trailer listed again...and then no trailers at all. It's unfortunate but you just have to spend a lot of time researching these things because they don't make things very clear.

[Gegrad]

Gegrad, I know what you mean. We were at CW today (spending a coupon; smart marketing on their part) and decided to take a look at some of the bigger Keystone units that were out. We happened upon a Sprinter Limited 319MKS that my wife fell in love with (oops!) Fortunately (for the pocketbook) it is a tad too much trailer for our TV. They had the price listed at about $51K, yet when we got home she found it on CW's web site for about $29K. Go figure!

Yep, I always see them discounted WAY off sticker. Cars rarely come off that much, so that is a big difference. And $22k difference from MSRP to sale price is insane. Side note: surprising that that trailer would be too much for your truck, as modern gasser 3/4 tons should be able to handle nearly any TT (fivers is where they run into trouble). Yours being 2WD should have a payload north of 3k; I can understand some of the diesels with 2100 lb payloads getting overloaded, but that is surprising that Sprinter would be too much.

[wiredgeorge]

Does the appearance of semi-incomprehensible spreads sheets have a direct correlation to the winter season? ALL Keystone products are made in the Amish foothills by master craftsmen to the very highest standards of workmanship known to man. The Chinese off-brand tires are a kind of aberration...

[JRTJH]

Does the appearance of semi-incomprehensible spreads sheets have a direct correlation to the winter season? ALL Keystone products are made in the Amish foothills by master craftsmen to the very highest standards of workmanship known to man. The Chinese off-brand tires are a kind of aberration...

I didn't know that Texas even had pot on the election in November...... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/smoke/stoned-smiley.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

[cookinwitdiesel]

My personal experience researching everything to death and going inside a lot of TT models at 3 different dealerships and one show back in September:

High-end lines: Sprinter, Outback, Laredo

Mid-range: Hideout, Cougar

Low-end: Springdale

I did not go inside EVERY model line but it was pretty clear what the "rankings" were.

I actually found the Hideout to be kind of an interesting value. It IS low priced but is somewhat nicely appointed I thought. We found an awesome deal on our 28RKS ($19k new) which made it an excellent starting out trailer for my family (first RV). The under mounted metal sink went a long way with me and my perception of quality. Porcelain toilet is also nice. The new hideouts include a power tongue jack and moryde steps too which I am jealous of! I did end up upgrading my manual jack to a power jack.

Some things to consider that it is easy to overlook when shopping:
-Quality of cabinet construction
-Flex in flooring due to construction
-Framing and sidewall materials

We bought our Hideout at the end of fall and actually have yet to camp in it but I expect to use it for a couple years before the urge to upgrade overcomes me :) I anticipate is ending up in either an Outback (there is a 330RL at our local CW that I have sat in a few times, it is slick) or a GD Reflections - they are a well regarded brand. The Laredo is also a good option with a lot more floor plans than the Sprinter line. Two things I really like on the Laredo is they have awesome outdoor kitchens and those nice big showers.

It is important to identify what floor plan will make the most sense for your needs and then identify what brands have a similar floor plan. If you look around enough online you will start to see there are really only like 5 floor plans that get recycled shamelessly by the RV companies.

Something else to take into account, there are a lot of small upgrades you can do that will greatly improve the appearance and perceived luxury of your trailer. A couple such upgrades I did in mine included metal (looking but still plastic) fixtures for the bathroom sink and shower along with a new shower hose and head. I did also add an igniter to my stove because spending nearly $20k to light a stove with a match just grated me. The mattress was embarrassing and had to be replaced.

Hope that helps some!

[Frank G]

After reading over the previous posts there was some good information, but I feel it is a bit misleading. Within some of the model lines there are super lite models, mid profile models, full profile models, and trim levels. :facepalm: I have no solutions as to ranking them.

The first two things a perspective buyer need to define is; do you need a unit rated for full time and under what climate conditions. After that your budget and personal preferences will take over. If you are new to this there are four season, sub zero, rated units out there with 3" walls, most are under 2 inches.

[JRTJH]

Oh, I know.. my comment was just more toward the "eyes rolling" nature of how much less they are in real life than the "starting MSRP" listed on the website.

I received an email from Camping World this morning, announcing their "end of year inventory clearance sale"... Essentially what it said was, "Select travel trailers up to 35% off MSRP and select fifth wheel trailers up to 40% off MSRP, Class C RV's up to 45% off MSRP and select Class A motorhomes up to 43% off MSRP.

So, Camping World is having a "Clearance Sale" on last year's models and probably some "mistakes they ordered and can't sell" for up to almost half off the MSRP. You can bet your bottom dollar, that not one of them will be sold at a loss !!!!!

As a note, even the high end clothing stores and Bass Pro have similar sales with similar pricing. Gives me a "warm fuzzy" about the "price gouge" between wholesale and retail pricing..... YMMV

[jsb5717]

You can essentially use the MSRP and length to determine the "price per foot" of each brand and each model. You can't use "only the MSRP" because a trailer line starting at 16,000 and a trailer line starting at 23,000 may not reflect the cheapest built (yes, I used "cheapest" to describe it purposely) trailer may not be the 16,000 one if that line starts at 16' and the 23,000 line starts at 30'. Calculating the two, the "cheapest" trailer would be the 23,000 line at 766 per foot vs the 16,000 line at 1,000 per foot.....

Put on your "Sherlock spectacles" and do your homework.....

Start here: https://www.keystonerv.com/showroom/

Sorry to drag up an old thread but was just looking for this information. I used John's suggestion and created a spreadsheet based on current model offerings and MSRP. They are in order from most to least expensive. If that is an indicator of the order of quality then here it is.

[JRTJH]

Sorry to drag up an old thread but was just looking for this information. I used John's suggestion and created a spreadsheet based on current model offerings and MSRP. They are in order from most to least expensive. If that is an indicator of the order of quality then here it is.

That's a good "first step" at determining cost per foot. Remember that when comparing fifth wheels to travel trailers, you've got to consider the extra costs associated with fifth wheels (more complex frame structure, etc).

Additionally, remember that "value", "cost", "quality" and "investment" are all different ways to calculate "quality"....

Keep in mind that as trailers get longer, the components in them must also get stronger (thicker frame, wider chassis rails, etc), so the bigger a trailer, the more it costs the manufacturer to buy the raw materials used to build it.

As an example, a 34' Montana might be built on an 8" frame, a 37' Montana might be built on a 10" frame and a 43' Montana might be built on a 12" DROP frame.... That would dramatically change the "frame costs" on trailers in the same line with very similar options on interior "what you see" construction.

So, consider the "whole trailer" not just the "price per foot".....

I've seen some "very expensive junk" and some "inexpensive, quality trailers"...

[jsb5717]

Yep, I think it's a challenging exercise to provide any accurate gauge of quality. Part of the equation has to be the hands that put it together. As we've already seen, you can put 3 identical trailers side by side and on one end have zero issues and high customer satisfaction. On the other side you can have multiple trips back to the dealer to solve all kinds of dysfunction. The "quality" of the trailers are identical in spec, but different in time spent, or attention given, to assemble them well. Higher end materials poorly assembled still creates havoc for the owner, driving down satisfaction, increasing online complaining, etc. The end result is still a lower quality product.

A lot of the cost of a rig can also be solely cosmetic. The bones and assembly can be sound but there are a lot of finishes that can add a lot of cost without necessarily impacting quality of build.

Customer satisfaction might be one of the better gauges of quality. If I knowingly purchase a rig with fewer cosmetic enhancements because I decide that I don't need to spend the extra dollars on those things in order to enjoy my trailer, but I am happy with the function and performance of my purchase, then I might say that my rig is good quality since, to me, it is a good value.

As John said, there are different ways to measure satisfaction that might translate into "quality". To me, if the rig performs as promised, that is quality.

[Dadmech]

I guess that's a good starting point t. My Keystone Hideout TT is a 39 foot model. Base was around $32,000. We're set up in a member owned campground. Never moves. We stay from April 1st to first week of December. Works well for the two of us and our 50 Lb. Goldendoodle!

[jsb5717]

This site does give a rating as well

https://www.keystonerv.com/fifth-wheels/