Nasty tire blow-out

[Mandersoon]

Hi all,

I was traveling from the Pacific Northwest out to the Midwest with my Mountaineer last week. On day one, I had a pretty bad blow-out that took a lot of the siding and insulation around the wheel-well with it. On day two, the second tire on that side blew as well, though fortunately, did not disintegrate like the first.

My primary question to the group is - any suggestions for where to procure a matching piece of sheet metal to repair the side skirting? I found one resource online that sells a match in 12 foot lengths, but at $290 a pop, that seems a bit unreasonable to me.


Also, as for the failure of the tires, I've come to the conclusion that the tires failed as a result of UV damage. This trailer sat for a couple years with the previous owner with direct southern exposure and no tire covers. I learned a lesson that UV damage is real, and can damage the rubber very rapidly!

[Javi]

https://www.trekwood.com/replacements

Your blow out experience is exactly why many of us replace our tires every two or three years... cheap insurance..

[Ken / Claudia]

Regarding the tires you could be right but, I well bet it was caused by #1 age too damn old, 5 years beyond build date your on borrowed time. What was the date of build stamped on the tires? #2 Under inflation during that trip or before caused damage that is not repairable. #3 Road debris got the first tire. The second blow out was caused by the overloaded condition from the first blow out. That second tire was forced to carry maybe double of what it should from the time of the failure until the weight was removed from it.

Replace all tires including the spare and get a TPMS system. Spend an hour or 2 reading through the tires section of this site. Your failures are common with aged tires or even new OEM tires.

[Badbart56]

I had some 5 year old Marathon's on mine too. I had pulled it about 275 miles and parked it in the yard and about two weeks later I was outside and one of them blew! Just sitting there. I considered myself lucky and went and bought six new 14 ply Super Cargos!

[ctbruce]

Lots of posts on here about tire quality and the need to replace the China Bomb Maypops. Someone gets bit almost every day.

[CWtheMan]

The loss of the 2nd tire was very predictable and is a reminder to all that have a catastrophic failure. The 2nd tire was carrying nearly 100% of the load on that side of the trailer. Probably around 200% of its load carrying ability. Internal damage to that tire was fatal and, under the circumstances, that's a normal result.

Just a note: At the age of 5 years ALL automotive and trailer tires need to be inspected by your favorite tire shop. Most won't charge anything for that service if it's just an external check.

[Mandersoon]

I'll just say that all 4 tires seemed to be in good shape before we left on our journey. They had plenty of depth in the treads and no cracking or anything of that sort. Also, they were inflated to proper pressures. They did have the time on them, I'll give you that. I checked tire pressure at most stops, and used an infrared thermometer at every stop to check temperature. The hottest one got was 130 degrees Fahrenheit on a 95+ day.

Could have well been the first issue that caused the second blow-out...hadn't considered that.

[mcomeaux]

What I've seen in my background I wouldn't ride on a tire more than 4 yrs period. And if I was traveling any long distance a new set of rubber is cheap considering the alternative regardless of age. Last set of tires was 3 yrs old and we were heading to desert from Oregon. Replaced with new and I never gave the tires a second thought on my trip.

[sourdough]

I'll just say that all 4 tires seemed to be in good shape before we left on our journey. They had plenty of depth in the treads and no cracking or anything of that sort. Also, they were inflated to proper pressures. They did have the time on them, I'll give you that. I checked tire pressure at most stops, and used an infrared thermometer at every stop to check temperature. The hottest one got was 130 degrees Fahrenheit on a 95+ day.

Could have well been the first issue that caused the second blow-out...hadn't considered that.


You might do a search on the site on failed tires or China Bombs (they are innumerable) for lots of interesting reading. Looking good on the outside doesn't mean anything; they generally disintegrate from the inside out. Mine looked brand new (and almost were) when one blew as have others. When pulled off the inside of the tire is failing, or in some cases, the tread just comes off due to poor construction. The easiest way to prevent those unforeseen, and many times catastrophic occurrences, without pulling the tires before every trip, is to keep them inflated to sidewall pressure, watch the weight put on them, use a TPMS then replace them at around 3 years. "Looking good" doesn't play into my criteria for assessment any longer on a ST tire.

[Ken / Claudia]

Manderson, bottom line is that these ST trailer tires are way different then any of your motor vehicle tires. Age, overweight, under pressure all kill them. Again look at the date code on the remaining tires. Tell us what it is.

[Harleydodge]

As to your question about replacement skirt sheeting, I just replaced a piece very similar to yours on mine. It was a simple 19inch by 1 inch piece about 108 inches long.
I had a local fab shop bend me a piece and I cut out the wheel well and installed it myself. Fab shop charged me 80$ time and materials.
The new piece is white but could easily be painted the original brown. I chose to leave it white as it matched the rest of the white on mine perfectly.


I looked into the Trekwood option but it would have been very costly to ship up here to me.

[Mandersoon]

Date-code on the remaining two Goodyear Marathons is 5012 and 5112 - going on 6 years old! Holy cow. Now I know. Will be getting those replaced as well before heading out again. Thanks for the tips.


Harleydodge - thanks for the tip to seek out a metal fab shop, it's a good one.

[sourdough]

You've looked at the date codes; be sure and look at the gvw of your trailer and the load range of the tires you intend to buy. They should cover the gvw of your trailer with a safety margin.....IMO. Don't buy underrated tires.

[ctbruce]

And don't replace with GY Marathons. Get a better tire. Lots and lots and lots of info in the forum with ideas. Carlisle, Sailun, Maxxis, or GY Enduarance should be where you look.

[sourdough]

And don't replace with GY Marathons. Get a better tire. Lots and lots and lots of info in the forum with ideas. Carlisle, Sailun, Maxxis, or GY Enduarance should be where you look.

^^^Chip brings up a good point. I spotted you had Marathons but forgot to mention it. They are a "may pop" tire. Goodyear used to make good trailer tires, and may be doing so now with the Endurance (time will tell), but the Marathons are not to be trusted. Carlisle HD, Maxxis, Endurance seem to be the best in that size as best I can tell.

[Tooth Ferry]

Explore the possibility of LT tires. The FirestoneTransforce tires on our Montana HC 305 RL have over 40,000miles on them and expect to get another10,000. They replaced TowMax originals that had to be replaced at about 3000 as thet were losing pieces of tread andhad big bubbles in the tread area.

[CWtheMan]

Date-code on the remaining two Goodyear Marathons is 5012 and 5112 - going on 6 years old! Holy cow. Now I know. Will be getting those replaced as well before heading out again. Thanks for the tips.


Harleydodge - thanks for the tip to seek out a metal fab shop, it's a good one.

The ST tire manufacturers have kept right in step with the new RVIA recommendations for 10% reserve load capacity above the vehicle's certified GAWRs.

You can now replace your original tire size (ST235/80R16 LRE) with the same size in a LRF. Most all of the ST manufacturers already have them at retailers throughout the USA. The advantage of using that upgrade to LRF is it uses the same load inflation chart as the LRE, so your trailer's tire labeling will still be valid.

The LRF will provide 3860# of load capacity @ 100 PSI. So you need to insure your current wheels and valve stems are rated for the 100 PSI. It's recommended to use steel valve stems with trailer tire applications.

I don't do brand recommendations. However, I have researched some of the LRF brands. The average tire weight was 50 - 55#. Average speed ratings are 75 - 81 MPH.

[Kansas Gary]

Mandersoon: Now that you need to replace all your tires have you considered upgrading both the tires and wheels on your RV? I have been researching this and really thinking about doing that to my RV in the near future. You might want to check out this web site and see if it just might work for you also. www.boarwheel.com (http://www.boarwheel.com) they do have a couple of ideas I really like....

[tubacjohn]

I upgraded the cheap factory tires to G rating after two failures on practically new tires. Say "NO" to Chinese tires. Many American branded ST tires (like Goodyear) are Cheap Chinese tires! I purchased Goodyear Goodyear Unisteel G614 RST Radial Tire - 235/85R16 126R. They are American made and they didn't need balancing (I had them checked). Sidewall failure is the most common failure I've seen on under rate tires

[jadatis]

Did you also take a picture of the inner side of tire, so the side that was not in the direct sunlite? I bet damage- pattern is yust the same as on sunside.
This damage often is courced by overheating, wich on its turn is courced by to much deflection for the speed.

Many ST tires are calculated in maximum load for 65mh and so have no reserve anymore for things like inacurate r eading of pressure, unequall loading R/L and misyudging of real weight on tire.
For that reason max pressure is prescribed.
And that is often even not enaugh to prevent overheating.
And nowadays a higher pressure then AT is not allowed anymore.

But still the tiremakers give pressure/ loadcapacity lists, that go back to 25 psi , calculated with the formula that was introduced for diagonal tires in 1928. These give higher loadcapacity's for the lower pressures then the calc for LT tires, so even more deflection so heatproduction at same speed, and heatproduction was already to the edges, when AT pressure and given maxload on tire.

So my question is , what pressure did you fill for what weights on tires?

[Irv gates]

Bubbles on the inside of most of the tires I have had on my 5th wheels were the biggest problem I have had. We seem to always catch the problem before the blew.
About one year to two years is about all I could get on new trailer tires from the Get go. I have moved on to A good quality truck tire that has steel belting in the side walls and meets the load ratings I need. No more blow outs and if they do, I wont worry about my wheel wells getting torn up. Iam also using a tire alarm system which is great for montoring tire Temps and Press, etc.

[Jim Aitken]

I had a similar blowout that destroyed the 12 ft. aluminum panel. My dealer ordered a replacement from Keystone and the total cost for the panel, crating and shipping came to around $300. Then I installed it myself.

[ptpick]

I had to replace a section of skirting on my 5th wheel. Had to buy 12' length. Bought from Camping World. Cost about $100. More in shipping cost than the piece. Same color and all as the OEM. Saved the remaining since will probably have to replace another piece at sometime in my travels. Was told by my dealer to use the OE tires for 1 season and then get rid of them for US made tires. Good Year tires were my choice.

[wiredgeorge]

The loss of the 2nd tire was very predictable and is a reminder to all that have a catastrophic failure. The 2nd tire was carrying nearly 100% of the load on that side of the trailer. Probably around 200% of its load carrying ability. Internal damage to that tire was fatal and, under the circumstances, that's a normal result.

Just a note: At the age of 5 years ALL automotive and trailer tires need to be inspected by your favorite tire shop. Most won't charge anything for that service if it's just an external check.


Curious about what you believe a tire shop employee could see externally on a tire that a plain ol' guy like myself could not see. I can see cracking in the side walls, dry rot or uneven treadwear.



Just to toss in an anecdote, when I bought my old 2002 trailer, it had one year old Carlisle load range E (ST225/75R-15). The spare on the back was a brand new Trailer King also same size and load rating. It obviously had never been mounted and I didn't pay attention to the date code. Since the tire had never been mounted, I just didn't pay attention; no signs of dry rot or anything else... looked perfect (to my untrained eye). A few weeks later, the tire developed a little bulge in the center of the tread. A couple days later, I thought we had been invaded by gators as there were hunks of tread all over the rear of my home parking slip. I was dumbfounded to find the tire had just blown up. I found the area with the bulge and the 10 plies of Chinese goodness had separated allowing the inner softer rubber part go push through. To think I could have put that thing on the trailer makes my blood run cold.

[tom0329]

low air pressure is to blame for that tire. You are lucky the other tire didn't go with it and roll you over.

[CWtheMan]

Curious about what you believe a tire shop employee could see externally on a tire that a plain ol' guy like myself could not see. I can see cracking in the side walls, dry rot or uneven treadwear.


Experience is the key. If you have it, use it. For all others, finding experienced feedback is recommended.

Is that better?

[flybouy]

Experience is the key. If you have it, use it. For all others, finding experienced feedback is recommended.

Is that better?

The benefits are obvious for someone that see's tire issues 10 times a day vs the average person who maybe see's a bad tire 10 times over a lifetime. The point is the folks trying to help typically do not know your abilities or expertise unless you share that information.

[Laredo Tugger]

Quote from Irv gates:
" I have moved on to A good quality truck tire that has steel belting in the side walls and meets the load ratings I need. No more blow outs and if they do, I wont worry about my wheel wells getting torn up."

OK,somebody throw me a bone here. Who makes this tire for trailers? I would be willing to spend more to save the wheel wells and avoid a roll over.
Thanks
RMc

[Harleydodge]

Quote from Irv gates:
" I have moved on to A good quality truck tire that has steel belting in the side walls and meets the load ratings I need. No more blow outs and if they do, I wont worry about my wheel wells getting torn up."

OK,somebody throw me a bone here. Who makes this tire for trailers? I would be willing to spend more to save the wheel wells and avoid a roll over.
Thanks
RMc


While I believe the person in that quote was referring to LT (light Truck) tires, I found the following article very informative. Everything the author says has been said at one time or another on this forum in the many various tire threads that exist, but this article puts it all together and explains things well:
https://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/312514/st-tires-all-steel-radial-construction-is-meeting-the-demand-for-more-carrying-capacity

[Snoking]

I had to replace a section of skirting on my 5th wheel. Had to buy 12' length. Bought from Camping World. Cost about $100. More in shipping cost than the piece. Same color and all as the OEM. Saved the remaining since will probably have to replace another piece at sometime in my travels. Was told by my dealer to use the OE tires for 1 season and then get rid of them for US made tires. Good Year tires were my choice.

Had a Laredo dealer tell me the same thing, "use the OE tires for a year" then go buy good tires. As we will be headed off to Arizona from Washington in a couple weeks, I did not even wait. Installed the LRE Endurance ST's right out of the gate and sold the Goodride LRD's for 200 bucks on CL in a day.

There are only two ST tires I would consider at this point. The Goodyear Endurance and the Providers.

https://www.etrailer.com/Tires-and-Wheels/Taskmaster/TR225LRE.html

The Goodyear's are available at tire dealers across the country. Discount Tire had them in stock. A mail order tire would create a larger service problem if it came to that. I am sure that some tire dealers stock the Providers, however the Goodyear Endurance should be much easier to find. Chris

[leathermanls]

Hi all,

I was traveling from the Pacific Northwest out to the Midwest with my Mountaineer last week. On day one, I had a pretty bad blow-out that took a lot of the siding and insulation around the wheel-well with it. On day two, the second tire on that side blew as well, though fortunately, did not disintegrate like the first.

My primary question to the group is - any suggestions for where to procure a matching piece of sheet metal to repair the side skirting? I found one resource online that sells a match in 12 foot lengths, but at $290 a pop, that seems a bit unreasonable to me.


Also, as for the failure of the tires, I've come to the conclusion that the tires failed as a result of UV damage. This trailer sat for a couple years with the previous owner with direct southern exposure and no tire covers. I learned a lesson that UV damage is real, and can damage the rubber very rapidly!

We had the exact same thing happen to us. Yes, we had to pay over $200 for the sheet metal. We bought these tires, Taskmaster Provider ST235/85R16 Load Range G - 5 tires cost $900.

They call those tires China bombs because there is no nylon mesh holding the tread to the sidewall. The tread separates and acts like a whip and destroys everything. Also note ST tires are normally not supposed to go over 55 MPH. The Provider tires we bought are rated for 70 MPH. Many people switch to light truck tires but since we have bought the Provider tires we have had no incidents. They blew out 3 times prior to buying the Provider tires. Our blowout also damaged the LP gas line so be sure to check for additional damage.

[Mandersoon]

low air pressure is to blame for that tire. You are lucky the other tire didn't go with it and roll you over.


If you're referring to my blow-out, I had just checked the tires that morning, and each tire was 80psi, or just shy (78 or greater)

[ron130fe]

Can someone please recommend a GOOD TMPS system. I’ve heard both good and bad systems out there but not any experienced use.

[Bolo4u]

Can someone please recommend a GOOD TMPS system. I’ve heard both good and bad systems out there but not any experienced use.


I use the Tire Minder (Minder research) smart tpms system. It uses an app on your phone to connect to the system. The kit comes with a booster, Bluetooth repeater(?) and 4 sensors for each tire. You can add more if you want. I found mine used (open box) on eBay last year for about $200

[travelin texans]

Can someone please recommend a GOOD TMPS system. I’ve heard both good and bad systems out there but not any experienced use.

TST 507, I have 10 sensors (truck & 5er) that have worked flawlessly for over 5 years, user replaceable batteries & no booster needed. Whatever brand you choose be sure each wheel has steel valve stems, with rubber you'll be testing the new system very often til all the stems are replaced, the weight of the sensors will break the rubber stems.

[sourdough]

I use the TST 507 as well. Works great and haven't had any issues.

[busterbrown]

I use an EEz RV Tire system. Already saved us a blown tire (and possible coach damage) as we picked up a screw on the highway earlier in the season. The TPMS low pressure alarm sounded at 60 psi. By the time the rig was stopped, the TPMS was showing 40 PSI on the effected tire.. Off went the flat and on went the spare. Got to our camping destination and had a reputable tire service center fix the flat. Cost me $20 total and about 30 minutes of my time. $300 wisely vested.

[Bolo4u]

TST 507, I have 10 sensors (truck & 5er) that have worked flawlessly for over 5 years, user replaceable batteries & no booster needed. Whatever brand you choose be sure each wheel has steel valve stems, with rubber you'll be testing the new system very often til all the stems are replaced, the weight of the sensors will break the rubber stems.



The booster for the tire Minder is an option. On longer trailers it just helps get the signal to the cab more efficiently

[AJFoyt]

I have been an RV’er pulling horses in a 4 stall Platnium 12 Ft short wall gooseneck RV for many years. We got some great advice early on after having a sidewall failure. Buy Michelin XPS radials. They have the best sidewall construction and have proven to be well worth the extra cost. Living in Texas heat and exposed to the sun all the time. Heavy loads like horses put a lot of weight on dual axle trailers. Anytime you hit a curb when turning the sidewalls are compromised. These tires are the only ones built to handle these issues.

[Snoking]

I have been an RV’er pulling horses in a 4 stall Platnium 12 Ft short wall gooseneck RV for many years. We got some great advice early on after having a sidewall failure. Buy Michelin XPS radials. They have the best sidewall construction and have proven to be well worth the extra cost. Living in Texas heat and exposed to the sun all the time. Heavy loads like horses put a lot of weight on dual axle trailers. Anytime you hit a curb when turning the sidewalls are compromised. These tires are the only ones built to handle these issues.

The Bridgestone Duravis R250 is in the same league. I have used both. Chris

[CWtheMan]

Remember the basics when searching for replacement tires. They must have the ability to equal the load capacity of the Original Equipment tires. That's a industry wide safety standard.

There are no suitable 16" LT tires with a load capacity equal to the load capacity of 16" ST tires. The 16" steel cased LRG LT tires are really trailer tires and have the RST right on their sidewalls. The RST is a registered trade mark from Goodyear meaning Regional Service Trailer.

In most cases there is nothing to prevent you as an owner to do as you see fit. However, discarding established safety standards for your own personal standards puts the responsibility for those actions squarely on your shoulders, so to speak.

[Irv gates]

AJ... Right on about those Michlin XPS tires. I have been running those tires on my last two Fivers and I have had no flats ,no problems for the last ten years. Iam on the First set now on my 2014 Montana ,a 39ft trailer and just put 4000mi in the last Two months on the trailer without any hipcups.
Also remember that trailer tires do not care the same specs for safety as do Autos and Lt trucks.

[notanlines]

Alright, I'll poke the stick this time.
Irv, "trailer tires do not care the same specs for safety as do Autos and Lt trucks."
We need to have you explain this in a little detail.

[CWtheMan]

Alright, I'll poke the stick this time.
Irv, "trailer tires do not care the same specs for safety as do Autos and Lt trucks."
We need to have you explain this in a little detail.

His trailer probably has 5200# axles which allows the EPS Ribs to provide more than enough load capacity reserves. However, no reputable retail tire store will knowingly replace Original Equipment ST tires with LT tires of any brand with the exception those manufactured strictly for trailer service.

All tires certified safe for highway service have the DOT logo on their sidewalls. So, you're right, where is your lack of safety reference Irv.

[Tireman9]

His trailer probably has 5200# axles which allows the EPS Ribs to provide more than enough load capacity reserves. However, no reputable retail tire store will knowingly replace Original Equipment ST tires with LT tires of any brand with the exception those manufactured strictly for trailer service.

All tires certified safe for highway service have the DOT logo on their sidewalls. So, you're right, where is your lack of safety reference Irv.


Wondering what would be wrong with replacing tire "A" with tire 'B" if it has a greater load capacity than "A".



I do not think the letters ST bestow some "magic" capability that tires marked LT don't?

[CWtheMan]

Wondering what would be wrong with replacing tire "A" with tire 'B" if it has a greater load capacity than "A".



I do not think the letters ST bestow some "magic" capability that tires marked LT don't?

It’s a technicality I’ve researched extensively. To track it you have to start at the governing body, at the point where a decision was made determining responsibility for original equipment fittings. NHTSA has determined the vehicle manufacturer is solely responsible for tire selection and fitment on – let’s say – RV trailers.

NHTSA also sets the minimum safety standard for those original equipment tire fitments which are described in the FMVSS (standards).

Tire designated size and its recommended cold inflation pressures MUST be displayed on the trailer’s federal certification label, in the trailer’s owner’s manual and on the tire & load label. The trailer manufacturer must provide documentation to the governing body that the federal certification label information is correct for that vehicle. NHTSA requires the vehicle owner’s manual describe general tire safety information. Within those descriptions there is a standard statement that informs the owner to use replacement tires of the same size and load capacity as the original tires described on the certification label. The trailer manufacturer can authorize options.

Tire industry standards (IMO) are nearly 100% in agreement with a statement that is worded similar to this one: Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation — or approved options — as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. The correct tire size designated for your vehicle should always be verified with the information in your vehicle owner’s manual.

NOTE: A tires size designation includes the prefix. Therefore, ST235/80R16 is a tire designed for trailer axles only. LT235/85R16 is a tire designed for drive/steer axles only. IMO that’s the way the tire industry sees it.

Also, IMO, you will be hard pressed to get any trailer manufacturer to budge from their tire selection for your RV trailer. Reputable tire retailers go by what’s recommended on the vehicle labeling or recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

I’ve never found any good reason why RV trailer builder “A” put ST235/80R16 LRE tires on 6000# GAWR axles when RV trailer builder “B” has certified LT235/85R16 LRE for the same sized axles on their brand of RV trailer. I don’t think we’ll see much of that anymore because of the 10% load capacity reserves recommended by RVIA for all tire fitments on RV trailer axles.

[Snoking]

All part of the marketing trap the ST tire manufacturers have created. Thankfully with the new GY ENDURANCE we may have a ST that can meet the claims made for so many years. With the new 10% cushion hopefully all 7K axles will get LRG all steel ply tires. In the mean time a lot of rubber was left on the roads. Chris

[CWtheMan]

All part of the marketing trap the ST tire manufacturers have created. Chris

If there was such a thing as a "marketing trap" conjured up by any tire manufacturers it was a necessary thing. USA tire manufacturing plants from the get-go have purposefully steered away from manufacturing ST tires. For the most part, they sent their molds and designs to other nations and washed their hands.

President Trump is tired of the trade deficit with China. Odds are he will soon void any/all tariff relief the China ST tire manufacturer's now receive. Some of the China manufacturer's have already made plans on moving their ST tire manufacturing to USA plants. One in NC is already providing ST tires to retailers.

Because a tire is manufactured in the USA does not guarantee a better product. The basic design remains the same wherever it's manufactured.

[Tireman9]

The tire industry position, I worked under for 40 years, was that any replacement tire should be capable of supporting equal or greater load as the OE tire did.


My post was simply intended to point out that replacing an ST type with LT type where the numbers were the same would result in lowering the load capacity. Not everyone pays attention to the details of the load and inflation information on either their Tire Placard or molded on the tire sidewall.


With the change in RVIA guidelines (adding 10% margin Sept 2017) it seems to me the correct thing to do is to ensure that ANY new tire you get for your RV should be able to meet that new guideline. There are millions of RVs out there with old placards that have 0% margin.


RV companies are not required to change the old placard so they would not go the expense.


Not sure how or why you would advise people to ONLY use the original size & type tire when the industry guidelines have been updated and improved.


Did the Navy never make changes or improvements to ships or aircraft, years after the ship or aircraft was built? You probably got new maintenance manuals and were told to stop following the original spec sheet. RV companies are not like the Navy. They wash their hands of any responsibility or care for the RV once it leaves the dealer lot.


IMO tires built to DOT standards that were upgraded in 2003 are much better than the out of date standards written in 1970.
IMO FMVSS 571.139 should be followed for all current P, LT & ST tire production but the RV industry fought against the inclusion of ST tires in that standard as they knew it would make tires more expensive even though the end user would get a better and more durable product.

[CWtheMan]

Did the Navy never make changes or improvements to ships or aircraft, years after the ship or aircraft was built? You probably got new maintenance manuals and were told to stop following the original spec sheet. RV companies are not like the Navy. They wash their hands of any responsibility or care for the RV once it leaves the dealer lot.



Sorry Tireman9, My goal is to write it the way it's supposed to be, not to what is good for the goose. Most of the current standards were approved in 2007. However, NHTSA and the tire industry keep safety standards current with bulletins, addendums and such.

As I said earlier, the trailer manufacturer is solely responsible for OE tires. Because the FMVSS enforces minimum standards, OE tires are considered a minimum guidance for replacements. Because NHTSA and the tire industry have reinforced tire descriptions, any prefix in the tire size description (P, LT, ST) is part of it's official size description. When the vehicle certification label reads ST225/75R15 the ST tire design is locked-in because of vehicle certification and numerous other NHTSA/tire industry standards.


Is it unsafe to use tires that are from a different design to replace your trailer tires? Probably, if you follow the established tire industry standards for such replacements. However, IMO, if such replacements were ever investigated for safety violations the plus sized tires would be a misapplication if not recommended by the vehicle manufacturer for that fitment.


There are always exceptions and arguments. An exception would be a tire with a LT prefix in it's size designation but is clearly designated by it's manufacturer as being for trailer service only and that info is molded onto its sidewall.


A strong argument could be won when 225/75R17.5 sized tires are used and they were designed for low platform trailer service.

[CWtheMan]

(Tireman9)

They wash their hands of any responsibility or care for the RV once it leaves the dealer lot.

Not entirely. They can't afford to. Self initiated recall action is hardly ever accompanied with NHTSA monitor penalties.

NHTSA initiated recall actions can be very expensive with very high monitory penalties.


Because of that, Keystone does listen to safety complaints and takes action when warranted.


NOTE: All should keep in mind that a complaint against equipment is not a complaint against Keystone. They may be involved with any recall action but the equipment provider will be paying. You should keep that in mind when your trailer is severely damaged from a catastrophic tire/wheel failure.

[Tireman9]

Sorry Tireman9, My goal is to write it the way it's supposed to be, not to what is good for the goose. Most of the current standards were approved in 2007. However, NHTSA and the tire industry keep safety standards current with bulletins, addendums and such.

As I said earlier, the trailer manufacturer is solely responsible for OE tires. Because the FMVSS enforces minimum standards, OE tires are considered a minimum guidance for replacements. Because NHTSA and the tire industry have reinforced tire descriptions, any prefix in the tire size description (P, LT, ST) is part of it's official size description. When the vehicle certification label reads ST225/75R15 the ST tire design is locked-in because of vehicle certification and numerous other NHTSA/tire industry standards.

Is it unsafe to use tires that are from a different design to replace your trailer tires? Probably, if you follow the established tire industry standards for such replacements. However, IMO, if such replacements were ever investigated for safety violations the plus sized tires would be a misapplication if not recommended by the vehicle manufacturer for that fitment.

There are always exceptions and arguments. An exception would be a tire with a LT prefix in it's size designation but is clearly designated by it's manufacturer as being for trailer service only and that info is molded onto its sidewall.

A strong argument could be won when 225/75R17.5 sized tires are used and they were designed for low platform trailer service.


Key word is "minimum" requirement.


Should we interpret your position to mean that if someone had a 2015 RV with an ST225/80R16LR-E but the 2017 model of the same RV with the same GVWR comes with LT235/85R16 LR-G you would say it is incorrect for the owner to go to the LT235's because that was not the size originally approved?
I am not aware of any RV company or car company issuing bullitins suggesting new or better tires on older model trailers. Doesn't the Navy do updates?


If the owner increases the load capacity of the tires please give us the technical reason why this would be bad or why it would not improve the safety of the RV as with going from 0% margin to 10% margin would clearly be an improvement IMO.



If you disagree then I guess folks will need to decide if they want to listen to an actual tire engineer or someone with just an interest in tires

[ChuckS]

In my case my 2014 Alpine came with ST235/80x16E rated 10 ply TK tires.. I upgraded shortly after to LT235/85x16 14 ply G rated tires.. the stock wheels are stamped 110 psi...

2015 Alpine, same model came stock with Provider 235/85x16 tires and same wheels..

Suspension on both years is exactly the same, as are the axles...7K...

It’s obvious to me Keystone knew they had an issue and corrected it on all 2015 Alpines...

Just wrapped up fifth season with my off brand Geo Star tires sold by Les Schwab tires.. I know my rig is safe and I have no worries and could care less what the factory placard states for tire size that it came with...

[CWtheMan]

Key word is "minimum" requirement.


Should we interpret your position to mean that if someone had a 2015 RV with an ST225/80R16LR-E but the 2017 model of the same RV with the same GVWR comes with LT235/85R16 LR-G you would say it is incorrect for the owner to go to the LT235's because that was not the size originally approved?

It's the manufacturer's prerogative and fully supported by FMVSS. It clearly states in the standards that the manufacturer is to fit each trailer with tires they deem appropriate. You cannot change their way of thinking any more than you can change mine.

I am not aware of any RV company or car company issuing bulletins suggesting new or better tires on older model trailers. Doesn't the Navy do updates?

Numerous tire manufacturer's produce bulletins parodically. Toyo seems to have the longest listings. Of course the Navy does updates. They also do some that are retroactive.


If the owner increases the load capacity of the tires please give us the technical reason why this would be bad or why it would not improve the safety of the RV as with going from 0% margin to 10% margin would clearly be an improvement IMO.


I'm sorry if you got the impression I disapprove of increasing existing tire load capacity. There is a right way to do it. As long as It's not done arbitrarily. Increasing a load range from "D" to "E" changes nothing but the load capacity of the tire. The designated size is the same. The tire placard remains valid because both load ranges use the same load inflation chart. To be in compliance with the vehicle manufacturer, an owner should seek their advice before considering design changes or plus sizing. Says so right in the owner's manual. Besides that, it's done by proxy for all normal automotive tire replacements.



If you disagree then I guess folks will need to decide if they want to listen to an actual tire engineer or someone with just an interest in tires


You often give answers outside of the ropes. I strive to avoid that. (aka; FastEagle, Airdale, BlackAces and others.