Update on my disappointment with Alpine

[Stanbro]

Several months ago I posted a thread entitled “Very Disappointed with New Alpine”. In it I listed 8 problems with an Alpine 3400RS, some rather serious. Since then more problems have surfaced and I feel an update to my level of disappointment is warranted. If interested, here is a link to the original post: Very Disappeared with New Alpine (http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33615)

In the past 3 months, we have towed the trailer only two times. Once was to get some work done on it. During that short trip, several screws vibrated out of the ceiling fan and two of the fan blades fell off. Also the closet rod fell down. The screws used to attach the rod hangers were screwed into nothing more than 1/8 inch paneling. The screws pulled out of the paneling but not before pulling the paneling away from the surrounding frame, exposing mucho staples. That mess took several hours to fix. Careless workmanship was to blame as some idiot at Keystone missed screwing into substantive wood. The thing is, he/she missed by a LOT and knew it but just didn’t care to make it right. Arrgghh! I hate how much I am seeing that level of disregard for quality in this rig. It seriously makes we wonder how well it will hold up to the kind of mileage we put on our RVs.

On the second trip, we discovered that a shelf over the rear window was not fastened to the side supports correctly and required more staples to secure it. Again, careless workmanship. Also the bi-directional solenoid that controls the hydraulic pump for the level-up jacks and main room slide-outs is beginning to intermittently fail to engage. When we press a control button to operate either the jacks or the slides, there is often only a clunk from the solenoid but the motor doesn’t run. Testing with a volt meter shows that the solenoid is not making electrical contact. I am not sure if the solenoid is bad or the wiring that controls it is bad — more troubleshooting is required. This is the second hydraulic-related failure. Ironically, one of the main reasons for buying this new RV was to get the power and reliability of the hydraulic system versus the all electric jacks and room slides that we struggled with on our previous 5th wheel. Sigh. We spent a boatload of money on this Alpine as we wanted full body paint, insulated windows, and a generator. I am feeling what we got is a rather expensive POS.

During the latest outing we had several people inquire about it as it is very striking to look at due to the full body paint. I told them that the paint job is about the only quality workmanship on the whole rig and that the paint job was not done by Keystone; rather, it was outsourced to another company.

This is the fifth RV we have owned in 20 years (three 5th wheels, two truck campers). This Alpine is assembled using the best components and materials when compared to the others, but the humam workmanship that screwed those components and materials together is, by far, the worst.

I hold the Alpine brand and Keystone in low regard.

[Hodgy]

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Mirrors my experience with the lack of quality I found on my Bullet 1800RB. I have resigned myself just to fix it and move on.

"Never time to do it right, always time to do it again."

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[Stanbro]

https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/sheets/TI___038_Testing_Procedure_For_Hydraulic_Pump_And_ Dual_Polarity_Solenoid.pdf

Sounds like either battery terminals are loose/corroded or maybe an issue with solenoid. I’d remove battery cables clean and tighten and then if issue persists use this PDF to quickly isolate issue

I have a 2014 Alpine and sure it’s had some cosmetic issues that were fixed by dealer. I’d bet there isn’t any brand out there not having same issue with workmanship.
I am an electronics engineer so am capable of diagnosing the problem with the level-up system. I just wish that I didn’t have to! I have already spent several weeks doing repairs to this POS so am growing weary of the ongoing issues with it. Thanks for the link to the troubleshooting guide.

Honestly, after 20 years of RVing in 5 different rigs, this one holds the new standard for poor workmanship. I had an R-Vision 5th wheel, a Crossroads 5th wheel, a Lance truck camper, and currently own an Eagle Cap truck camper. Each of them had a few issues. This Alpine takes the prize for issues. The staples, wood chips, and screws between the roof decking and TPO membrane is the literal icing on this cr*p cake.

One admirer that saw it this weekend said he was going to order an Alpine. I encouraged him to shop elsewhere. He was delusional in his thinking that my poor experience is an exception. I asked him why he thought his would not have just as many issues. His response was that I must have gotten the C team when mine was built. I told him that *ALL* the production teams were C teams these days at Keystone.

[sourdough]

So did you isolate your issue with your level up. Using the PDF I linked to it should not take more than 5 minutes to verify solenoid issue, electric motor issue on pump, or lousy current path from battery to solenoid hot post. Best of luck with your issues.


Chuck, the OP seems so disillusioned with the Alpine he may have given up on the repairs......or may be starting another thread to share his frustration again??:confused::)

[Stanbro]

So did you isolate your issue with your level up. Using the PDF I linked to it should not take more than 5 minutes to verify solenoid issue, electric motor issue on pump, or lousy current path from battery to solenoid hot post. Best of luck with your issues.
I don’t have time to deal with it right now. It is on the list of things to get to. Today I had to order a new tire and wheel to replace the spare that either fell off or was stolen.

[Stanbro]

Chuck, the OP seems so disillusioned with the Alpine he may have given up on the repairs......or may be starting another thread to share his frustration again??:confused::)
I am sorry that you are confused about my posts. Let me attempt to clarify. . .

After 20 years of ownership of five RVs, I am savvy enough to know that they all have issues from the manufacturer. Other than the roof replacement on my 10 year old former 5th wheel, I have done all repairs and upgrades to them. We just got back from a 19K mile, 7-month trip around the perimeter of the U.S., during which many things broke on our former 5th wheel and I fixed everything along the way. I know how to diagnose and repair every system in an RV.

So, not disillusioned about the fact that this Alpine has stuff that needs to be fixed. Rather, disappointed, and angry that Keystone has total disregard for basic principles of workmanship. I towed this trailer 2000 miles to the Keystone factory in Goshen, Indiana to show them all of the issues with it, and to specifically speak to the Director of Customer Service about the debris between the roof decking and TPO membrane. I insisted that they replace the roof as those sharp objects would eventually pierce the membrane. When I was told that the staples and screws under the membrane were considered acceptable build quality I nearly went ballistic. I feel that others should know their policies and the results of their poor manufacturing practices. As such, I posted my new and continued disappointment with this Alpine when more stuff broke.

I have been warned that I cannot continue to bash Keystone.

I have made many positive posts about my former 5th wheels and truck campers on other forums. In particular, I have many good things to say about Lance and Adventurer LP. Adventurer is the maker of my Eagle Cap truck camper. Both Lance and Adventurer are role models for other RV manufacturers in terms of quality manufacturing and pride in workmanship.

I hope that clears up any confusion you might have regarding my post.

[cvin]

I am not confused at all by your post
Agree keystone is junk and i will never buy another one either

This attitude of everyone is doing crappy work and so it is acceptable is ridiculous

All these people buying new junky rvs for the first time wont do this again, the rv industry is shooting itself in the foot putting out quality like this

I too have experience with other rvs etc and do not think this level of quality is acceptable at all

Very sorry to hear of your troubles

[jsmith948]

Years ago, we purchased and Opal Kadett automobile. German engineering - how could we go wrong? That car was in the shop more than it was in my driveway! We struggled with that thing for the entire 3 years we took to pay it off (Navy at the time = no money). My point to the OP - no matter what you buy, there is always the chance of getting "a bad one". The way I see it, if you can afford the hit, trade that puppy off on something else. If you can't afford to do that, then suck it up and get to work making it right. You profess to have the skill sets required to fix it yourself - so get busy. Personally, I would take it on as a challenge and I would enjoy the bragging rights for having 'made it mine'.
But, given how disappointed and dissatisfied you are, you will probably never be happy with this rig - trade it off - life is too short for such drama and anguish. JMHO ;)

[Stanbro]

Years ago, we purchased and Opal Kadett automobile. German engineering - how could we go wrong? That car was in the shop more than it was in my driveway! We struggled with that thing for the entire 3 years we took to pay it off (Navy at the time = no money). My point to the OP - no matter what you buy, there is always the chance of getting "a bad one". The way I see it, if you can afford the hit, trade that puppy off on something else. If you can't afford to do that, then suck it up and get to work making it right. You profess to have the skill sets required to fix it yourself - so get busy. Personally, I would take it on as a challenge and I would enjoy the bragging rights for having 'made it mine'.
But, given how disappointed and dissatisfied you are, you will probably never be happy with this rig - trade it off - life is too short for such drama and anguish. JMHO ;)
Thanks for your kind and supportive words.

Want to buy a lightly used Alpine in mint condition? Oh, by the way, I am probably bound by law to tell you it will need a new roof in a about two years even though it is brand new. But, here’s the deal, you could “make it yours”.

[5J's]

Sorry but, it doesn't have the bunkhouse. With three kids that's a deal breaker!

[Tbos]

Stanbro,
Did you post pictures of the roof with the visible debris under it? I’ve been on the roof of my 2019 3651 a lot and have yet to see anything that looks like it would come up through the TPO. However on my last Passport there was one spot I had to watch.
Sorry for all your issues. Hopefully something will work out and you will eventually be happy with it or the replacement.

[sourdough]

I am sorry that you are confused about my posts. Let me attempt to clarify. . .

After 20 years of ownership of five RVs, I am savvy enough to know that they all have issues from the manufacturer. Other than the roof replacement on my 10 year old former 5th wheel, I have done all repairs and upgrades to them. We just got back from a 19K mile, 7-month trip around the perimeter of the U.S., during which many things broke on our former 5th wheel and I fixed everything along the way. I know how to diagnose and repair every system in an RV.

So, not disillusioned about the fact that this Alpine has stuff that needs to be fixed. Rather, disappointed, and angry that Keystone has total disregard for basic principles of workmanship. I towed this trailer 2000 miles to the Keystone factory in Goshen, Indiana to show them all of the issues with it, and to specifically speak to the Director of Customer Service about the debris between the roof decking and TPO membrane. I insisted that they replace the roof as those sharp objects would eventually pierce the membrane. When I was told that the staples and screws under the membrane were considered acceptable build quality I nearly went ballistic. I feel that others should know their policies and the results of their poor manufacturing practices. As such, I posted my new and continued disappointment with this Alpine when more stuff broke.

I have been warned that I cannot continue to bash Keystone.

I have made many positive posts about my former 5th wheels and truck campers on other forums. In particular, I have many good things to say about Lance and Adventurer LP. Adventurer is the maker of my Eagle Cap truck camper. Both Lance and Adventurer are role models for other RV manufacturers in terms of quality manufacturing and pride in workmanship.

I hope that clears up any confusion you might have regarding my post.

Maybe it's "your" Alpine? The "bad apple" that got out....I don't know. As far as things under the roofing, mine has an arched roof as most do. When I inspected my roof I found little "bumps" from staples backing out under the EPDM. Did I go ballistic or think they did a poor job? Of course not. The thing bounces down horrible highways and gets beat to death. As it flexes I have no doubt things sort of "come out". What did I do? To prevent a failure of the EPDM from a staple working thru it I just put Eternabond patches over them so they wouldn't work out. That is one repair among dozens.

I fully understand your frustration and disappointment. You said you are capable of doing any repairs needed. I also understand that it sounds like you got a "bad apple". I've had that happen on automobiles multiple times costing more than the typical RV. When I determined "I'd had it", it was gone and I had a new "shiny thing" sitting in the drive - I called it a learning experience. I hope you figure out a way to make things work but I'm not sure letting yourself just stew and vent in every way possible will fix your situation.

[goducks]

Anyone that thinks staples working loose under the TPO/EPDM isn't that big of a deal needs to reboot their standards. It's those loose standards that are the reason for record RV sales. Buyers are too complacent IMO.

[KHBama]

Anyone that thinks staples working loose under the TPO/EPDM isn't that big of a deal needs to reboot their standards. It's those loose standards that are the reason for record RV sales. Buyers are too complacent IMO.

^^^ 100% truth

[RoscoeV]

When the majority of people accept poor quality then poor quality becomes acceptable!

[JimMach1]

I noticed some air bubbles in my rubber or TPO roof, will they cause any problem?
Right from keystone website. Just my opinion the forum is not the place to vent maybe the dealer can relay your message.

During the manufacturing process, the glue used to secure the roofing material to the plywood underlayment goes through a “curing” process. In some instances, the glue continues to “cure” after the roof material is in place and the gas causes an air pocket. Typically, they will never get any larger and do not pose any threat for leakage or structural problems. If your unit has one that is making you uncomfortable, have your dealer check it for your piece of mind.

[sourdough]

Anyone that thinks staples working loose under the TPO/EPDM isn't that big of a deal needs to reboot their standards. It's those loose standards that are the reason for record RV sales. Buyers are too complacent IMO.

I guess I don't get folks buying a 25-75k rv, engineered to be beaten to death, with all the comforts of "home" (sticks and bricks), built to come in at a price that most folks will pay (cheap) and then gripe because they don't have a $400k unit. They WILL have problems. If you want that high end unit, and pay 2-300k or more, you should gripe. When you pay the price line I mentioned above, you can be aggravated, but you should be aware of what you are getting. YOU chose what you are getting and YOU chose to go "cheap" to get the most you could for the least amount you could spend. It's like buying a Yugo and the griping because it isn't built like a MB....wasted time.

[ctbruce]

Potential problems and problems are not the same thing. Potential problems are caught on the PDI. Problems are fixed as they occur. YMMV. JM2C.18312

[Dave W]

Ahhh the joys of RV ownership in today's world of shove it out the door Jake, done right or not

Sounds like the OP got a unit built the day after a long holiday weekend. Unfortunately, there seems to be lots of those units and will continue to flow down the Interstates to you, the buyer, until this big bubble of buyers starts to taper off and craftsmen start to replace crapsmen putting these RVs together. This problem is not limited to Keystone but to many brands including the 6 figure Class A buyers.

We have looked at new 5ers - mid and up and have found that what we have, though is missing some of the current 'bling' is put together better. Have we had some problems? For sure, but all have been easily fixed and a heluva lot cheaper and way faster then dragging it to a dealer and hoping that they fix whateevr (minor, so far) is wrong - and that included the warranty period