Tow vehicle?

[slickster]

Hello, everyone in Keystone land. I had a 2007 gmc sierra 2500 hd diesel with rear airbags. My problem is that my truck caught fire a couple of weeks ago, and I am waiting for a settlement. my toyhauler 2015 Keystone Cougar 326 SRX Dry Weight 9,745 lbs
Payload Capacity 2,915 lbs
GVWR 12,660 lbs.Hitch Weight 2,260 lbs. When I bought this unit, we were going to live off grid, but medical conditions are putting a stop to that. So, I am wondering would a gas gmc 2500hd or any of the other makes that are similar, because I haven't selected and particular make. We won't be travelling too much, mostly grandchildren sleep in it. I thank you for reading about my predicament, and I appreciate any help you can give me.

[msubobcats]

Sure others much more informed than I will post but I will say a definite no. Hitch weight as advertised is probably not close. The true weight when loaded could be upwards of 3000#. Payload will be the enemy of a 3/4 ton...

[sourdough]

Sorry to hear about the medical issues.

In my mind you are in a quandary so to speak. At 12,660 gvw. you really need a diesel if you are going to tow anywhere. On the other hand, a diesel reduces your payload and with 23-2600 pin weight you will probably be close, if not over, the payload of a 3/4 ton diesel.

You could get a 3/4 ton gas truck which will increase your payload (mine is 3190) but your max tow drops and some might go below the gvw of your trailer. With a lower ratio (4.10) you can get a tow rating of around 15,000 lbs.

Not a lot of help I know but some things to think about. I would suggest a diesel if you think you are ever going to use the trailer to travel much at all but check the weights. You may want to go to a 1 ton if you go with the diesel to get the additional payload capacity. Fire away with questions.

[bob91yj]

I work at a Chevy dealership, I just checked the numbers for a 2500HD with the 6.0L gas engine...

For a 2wd with 4.10 gears, max trailer weight is 14,200#'s, with max GCWR of 21,100#'s.

Same truck with 3.73 gears 9700#'s and 16,600.

So it is possible to do it with a GMC/Chevy truck, but you'll be pushing the limits.

[wiredgeorge]

Since the 2007 was kind of long in the tooth, seems if it were me, I would be looking for a used vehicle. Is that the plan or are you going to buy new. If you buy used, I would consider a non-towing package type one ton to avoid the 4.10 gears Danny suggested especially if you are going to use the truck a lot when NOT towing. Of course, if you do tow a lot, the 4.10:1 axle will increase your ability to haul your trailer and would be a good thing. I get 7 mpg when not towing with my F250 460 cid so probably shouldn't be giving gas mileage tips bwhahahaha

[Javi]

I work at a Chevy dealership, I just checked the numbers for a 2500HD with the 6.0L gas engine...

For a 2wd with 4.10 gears, max trailer weight is 14,200#'s, with max GCWR of 21,100#'s.

Same truck with 3.73 gears 9700#'s and 16,600.

So it is possible to do it with a GMC/Chevy truck, but you'll be pushing the limits.

Yeah, but he can't carry it... just tow it... :D

Now all he has to do is figure out how to hook up to it, so the pin weight isn't on the truck..

I love them silly towing guides.. :D

[notanlines]

Escondido Bob, read Javi’s post. You are not giving very accurate info to this member. The weight in the BED of his truck will be way out of the envelope.

[bob91yj]

I don't make this stuff up sports fans, it's straight out of the book, not interweb myths.

Straight from the owners manual...

Fifth-Wheel and Gooseneck Trailering
Fifth-wheel and gooseneck trailers can be used with many pickup models. These trailers place a larger percentage of the weight (kingpin weight) on the tow vehicle than conventional trailers. Make sure this weight does not cause the vehicle to exceed GAWR or GVWR.

Fifth-wheel or gooseneck kingpin weight should be 15 to 25% of the trailer weight up to the maximum amount specified in the trailering chart for the vehicle. See “Weight of the Trailer” under Trailer Towing.

The hitch should be located in the pickup bed so that its centerline is over or slightly in front of the rear axle. Take care that it is not so far forward that it will contact the back of the cab in sharp turns. This is especially important for short box pickups. Trailer pin box extensions and sliding fifth-wheel hitch assemblies can help this condition. There should be at least 15 cm (6 in) of clearance between the top of the pickup box and the bottom of the trailer shelf that extends over the box.

Maximum weights

2500

Fifth-Wheel Gooseneck

1 361 kg (3,000 lb)

I'm not here to sell the OP a truck, he asked a question, I have access to the ACCURATE answers, so I looked them up. If you choose not to believe what the OEM's publish for their vehicles and prefer to go by what the interweb experts say, that's up to you.

[notanlines]

Bob, we all see where you are trying to go with this, but you are only TOWING this RV. In order to stay in the complete envelope you also have to HAUL the RV. Listed pin weight is apparently 2260, average hitch about 250, weight of goodies loaded in the business end of the RV probably another 800 pounds including propane. Four passengers in your TV, plus 28 gallons of fuel in your TV. Any more "stuff" in the cab of your truck? A dog maybe? Every bit of it is added on to the 2260 pin weight. We need to see the cargo capacity from the yellow sticker on the pillar of the truck and then see the CAT scale sheet. Believe me, it simply won't add up in this case. On the other hand, don't believe we haven't seen a lot worse on here....

[Javi]

I don't make this stuff up sports fans, it's straight out of the book, not interweb myths.

Straight from the owners manual...

Fifth-Wheel and Gooseneck Trailering
Fifth-wheel and gooseneck trailers can be used with many pickup models. These trailers place a larger percentage of the weight (kingpin weight) on the tow vehicle than conventional trailers. Make sure this weight does not cause the vehicle to exceed GAWR or GVWR.

Fifth-wheel or gooseneck kingpin weight should be 15 to 25% of the trailer weight up to the maximum amount specified in the trailering chart for the vehicle. See “Weight of the Trailer” under Trailer Towing.

The hitch should be located in the pickup bed so that its centerline is over or slightly in front of the rear axle. Take care that it is not so far forward that it will contact the back of the cab in sharp turns. This is especially important for short box pickups. Trailer pin box extensions and sliding fifth-wheel hitch assemblies can help this condition. There should be at least 15 cm (6 in) of clearance between the top of the pickup box and the bottom of the trailer shelf that extends over the box.

Maximum weights

2500

Fifth-Wheel Gooseneck

1 361 kg (3,000 lb)

I'm not here to sell the OP a truck, he asked a question, I have access to the ACCURATE answers, so I looked them up. If you choose not to believe what the OEM's publish for their vehicles and prefer to go by what the interweb experts say, that's up to you.

Now do yourself a favor and look up the "BOOK" on any truck on the lot at your employer... then go look at the STICKER on the door post of that exact truck... the STICKER will always be much less than the "BOOK"

Real world trumps "THE BOOK" every day...

And I'm not here to debate you... I'm telling the REAL WORLD FACTS... not the book..

[bob91yj]

If you go back and read my first post you will also see that I said that the OP would be "pushing the limits of the truck".

I'm not going to argue the point any further, I keep forgetting that post count equals knowledge on these forums. The OP can do what he wants with the information provided.

[Gegrad]

His trailer's GVWR is 12,600, so even at a Full 20% pin and full GVWR his pin weight would be 2550lbs. My uncle has a gasser F250 and his yellow sticker payload # is 3440 lbs (i looked a few weeks ago because I thought he might be overweight... turns out he is definitely NOT with that payload). Point is, if the OP can find a 2WD gasser with a good payload he will be just fine. A diesel 2500 or heavily optioned 250 (or 4X4) will be a no go of course.

[flybouy]

Arguing truck capacity without the yellow sticker numbers of the truck and a weight scale slip of the trailer is like attempting brain surgery while wearing cather's mitts on your hands. JMHO

[bsmith0404]

I’ll throw my 2 cents in. First 2500 trucks are a very capable truck, but are limited to 10,000 GVWR by federal regulations. I towed a 5th wheel with a 2,200 lb pin weight with my 2500 and felt very comfortable doing so, but I’m sure I was over on the payload per the door sticker. My current 5th wheel has a dry pin weight of over 2700 lbs. When I hooked it up to the 2500 I knew it wasn’t a good combo, but the week link was the tire carrying capacity, just too much sidewall flex. Back then 3500s had a heavier rated tire than 2500s, today they seem to be about the same so probably not as much of an issue as it used to be. BTW, I currently own a dually.

To answer your question, I think a 2500 would tow very capable and carry the weight, but you will most likely be over payload based on the federal regulations and door sticker. Since you don’t own the truck yet, if it were me, I’d buy a single rear wheel 3500, that will take care of the door sticker issue.

[Badbart56]

Valid points in reference to the payload and hauling capabilities of a 3/4 ton. From my EXPERIENCE, and my experience only, based on our fleet of 2015-2016 Chevy 2500 4x4's with 3:73 gears and the 365 hp 6.2 engine. You are going to be disappointed with the lack of power. Lack of torque actually. Our trucks don't tow but with their constant load weigh 8500 lbs. They are quite gutless as compared to the diesels. Our trucks stay on the interstate and I would hate to have an 8 to 12K lb. RV behind them. These trucks have to shift down on hills to maintain their speed when the cruise is on without anything behind them. Just my observations. Maybe I'm spoiled. Also, the "BOOK" said my F350 has a 4700 LB. payload. The door sticker says the payload is 4525, so yes, the "BOOK" can be wrong.

[3wheeler]

Hello, everyone in Keystone land. I had a 2007 gmc sierra 2500 hd diesel with rear airbags. My problem is that my truck caught fire a couple of weeks ago, and I am waiting for a settlement. my toyhauler 2015 Keystone Cougar 326 SRX Dry Weight 9,745 lbs
Payload Capacity 2,915 lbs
GVWR 12,660 lbs.Hitch Weight 2,260 lbs. When I bought this unit, we were going to live off grid, but medical conditions are putting a stop to that. So, I am wondering would a gas gmc 2500hd or any of the other makes that are similar, because I haven't selected and particular make. We won't be travelling too much, mostly grandchildren sleep in it. I thank you for reading about my predicament, and I appreciate any help you can give me.

I had a 2007 2500 silverado ccsb diesel. The GVRW on that truck was 9200#. The truck weighed 7100# with the hitch in the bed and full of fuel. Now add my 250# rear end and that only leaves 1850# for hitch weight and other cargo/people.

[wiredgeorge]

I’ll throw my 2 cents in. First 2500 trucks are a very capable truck, but are limited to 10,000 GVWR by federal regulations. I towed a 5th wheel with a 2,200 lb pin weight with my 2500 and felt very comfortable doing so, but I’m sure I was over on the payload per the door sticker. My current 5th wheel has a dry pin weight of over 2700 lbs. When I hooked it up to the 2500 I knew it wasn’t a good combo, but the week link was the tire carrying capacity, just too much sidewall flex. Back then 3500s had a heavier rated tire than 2500s, today they seem to be about the same so probably not as much of an issue as it used to be. BTW, I currently own a dually.

To answer your question, I think a 2500 would tow very capable and carry the weight, but you will most likely be over payload based on the federal regulations and door sticker. Since you don’t own the truck yet, if it were me, I’d buy a single rear wheel 3500, that will take care of the door sticker issue.

I have a 3/4 ton and would like to take a look at the Federal regulation you are referring to. Where did you get the information from?

[logspec1]

Concur. The book is generic, the sticker takes into account modifications to the vehicle reflecting as sold condition.

[xrated]

Valid points in reference to the payload and hauling capabilities of a 3/4 ton. From my EXPERIENCE, and my experience only, based on our fleet of 2015-2016 Chevy 2500 4x4's with 3:73 gears and the 365 hp 6.2 engine. You are going to be disappointed with the lack of power. Lack of torque actually. Our trucks don't tow but with their constant load weigh 8500 lbs. They are quite gutless as compared to the diesels. Our trucks stay on the interstate and I would hate to have an 8 to 12K lb. RV behind them. These trucks have to shift down on hills to maintain their speed when the cruise is on without anything behind them. Just my observations. Maybe I'm spoiled. Also, the "BOOK" said my F350 has a 4700 LB. payload. The door sticker says the payload is 4525, so yes, the "BOOK" can be wrong.

It's not that the "Book" is wrong, it's the fact that they use maximum numbers when the truck is equipped like their truck example. In other words, a stripped down model with no options on it....a work truck. Add 4x4, Diesel, the higher level trim packages, etc, and the payload capacity goes South from there. The yellow/white sticker on the driver side door post will state the Cargo Carrying Capacity (payload) for THAT TRUCK, as it was built and leaving the assembly line. Brochures, ads, online guides are useless....unless you have the same truck as they base their MAXIMUM capacities on....and that is a fact.

[Javi]

:D yep....

[Badbart56]

It's not that the "Book" is wrong, it's the fact that they use maximum numbers when the truck is equipped like their truck example. In other words, a stripped down model with no options on it....a work truck. Add 4x4, Diesel, the higher level trim packages, etc, and the payload capacity goes South from there. The yellow/white sticker on the driver side door post will state the Cargo Carrying Capacity (payload) for THAT TRUCK, as it was built and leaving the assembly line. Brochures, ads, online guides are useless....unless you have the same truck as they base their MAXIMUM capacities on....and that is a fact.

That's my point. There is not a "one size fits all".

[KimNTerry]

:D yep....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification

Class 2 is further subdivided
Class 2a 6k to 8.5k (1/2 ton pickups)
Class 2b 8.5k to 10k (3/4 ton pickups)

Classes 1-3 are considered "Light Duty"

Classes 4-6 are considered "Medium Duty" (MDT)

Classes 7-8 are considered "Heavy Duty" (HDT)

Class 9 is a special class for weight limits beyond 33k pounds (In most cases these require special permitting to be on the road)

The people that determine model numbers are well aware of these classes as well. Note that starting with the 3/4 ton pickups and vans, the truck models follow the class numbers:
250/2500 (class 2b) 8.5k-10k
350/3500 (Class 3) 10K-14K
450/4500 (Class 4) 14K-16K
550/5500 (Class 5) 16K-19.5k
650/6500 (Class 6) 19.5k-26k
750/7500 (Class 7) 26k-33k

[bsmith0404]

I’m not going to dig it all up now, you can google it, but basically it comes down to DOT requirement for commercial use. Anything with a GVWR or GCWR over 10,000 lbs would need to run DOT numbers. A 3/4 ton truck doesn’t under the GVWR rule as long as it’s not towing a trailer. A 1 ton truck would require a DOT number if used for commercial even when empty. There are other regulations that come into affect, such as marker/clearance lights. All 1 ton trucks have them from the factory (required). I challenge you to find one on any dealers lot that doesn’t. 3/4 ton trucks are not required to have them so they are an option for most of not all manufacturers. You will find a mixture of trucks with and without at the dealerships. In most states these DOT regulations do not affect the average owner, but some states require different licensing for 1 ton trucks even if just for personal use.

[bsmith0404]

:D yep....

Thanks Javi!!!