Increasing weight carry ability

[rayjoanlough]

We hear all the numbers for our fifth wheels and travel trailers but which is the most important? If I were to change the axles on my 2008 Couger from 5200# to 80000#, have I safely increased my load capacity? Just an old sailer pondering things!:flowers:
I don't really want to buy a whole new trailer so I can carry more "stuff".
ray

[Javi]

Short answer... NO

[rayjoanlough]

Thanks for the short answer but the question begs "why?".

[JRTJH]

A bit longer answer: The frame, tongue/pinbox mount are all the same and remain unchanged. There is more to GVW considerations than just axle rating. Even things like the welds that hold the frame crossmembers to the I-beam or C-beam rails are a part of the maximum GVW rating consideration.

[flybouy]

We hear all the numbers for our fifth wheels and travel trailers but which is the most important? If I were to change the axles on my 2008 Couger from 5200# to 80000#, have I safely increased my load capacity? Just an old sailer pondering things!:flowers:
I don't really want to buy a whole new trailer so I can carry more "stuff".
ray

The answer would be no but it would be interesting seeing those 80K axles under that Cougar! :lol:

[rayjoanlough]

OOPS my fat fingers pushed the 0 button one too many times! Maybe that's why John said the welds wouldn't hold up.
ray

[flybouy]

OOPS my fat fingers pushed the 0 button one too many times! Maybe that's why John said the welds wouldn't hold up.
ray

I think John read it and responded as 8K. Increasing the axle capacity is like changing your shoes to boots and thinking you can carry twice as much, your back will tell you no.

[MattE303]

A bit longer answer: The frame, tongue/pinbox mount are all the same and remain unchanged. There is more to GVW considerations than just axle rating. Even things like the welds that hold the frame crossmembers to the I-beam or C-beam rails are a part of the maximum GVW rating consideration.

I think a good example that shows the differences are considerable is to compare two otherwise similar trailers (in terms of length, floor plan, features, etc.), but with one of them being a toy hauler and the other not. The toy hauler will be considerably heavier, both dry weight and GVWR, primarily because the toy hauler has to be built much stronger to handle the potentially much higher cargo weight.

[wiredgeorge]

8K axles need different springs. Different tires and probably different rims. Most of the trailers out there have suspensions and tires just adequate for the amount of cargo anticipated. I think it would like be OK to bump up the carrying capacity a bit; say one step up on the axle (not 5200 to 8K lbs) if you upgraded the springs, wheels and tires. Getting pretty expensive I think as those axles are not cheap.

[CWtheMan]

Only the vehicle manufacturer or a certified modifier/alterer have the authority to change the vehicle's certified GVWR or GAWR (s).

For verification you can put - CFR 49 part 567 - into your computer's search engine and read the sections about modifications.

[ctbruce]

In other words, you cant make a doberman out of a chiuahahu. You cant make make a silk purse from a sow's ear. You cant make a Porsche from Yugo. It'll still be a chihuahua, a sow's ear and a Yugo.


But with really big axles!

[mazboy]

And my question is....why the heck would you go up to a 8K axle anyway? They are using 8K axles on HUGE trailers. what the heck are you putting in your trailer anyway?????

If you do anything go to the IS system with disc brakes for about $7K.

[Dave W]

While an axle change out to *K is a money waste, you can easily upgrade to 6K by changing springs as well as the outer hub bearings. Your tires will need to be capable as well. Unfortunately, this does not change the yellow sticker on the side nor will it change the axle part number which says "5200#". Oh and this is what I did plus added a 1" spring spacer to stop tire to body contact on our country's formerly 'shovel ready' to be rpaired highways:ermm:

[CWtheMan]

While an axle change out to *K is a money waste, you can easily upgrade to 6K by changing springs as well as the outer hub bearings. Your tires will need to be capable as well. Tires are fitted to the vehicle certified GAWR and nothing else. Unfortunately, this does not change the yellow sticker on the side nor will it change the axle part number which says "5200#". The vehicle certified GAWRs must remain at 5200#. Any loading above those 52OO# ratings will overload the trailer's GVWR. Oh and this is what I did plus added a 1" spring spacer to stop tire to body contact on our country's formerly 'shovel ready' to be repaired highways:ermm:

In orange above.

[Dave W]

In orange above.


Yes, that's what I said: "Unfortunately, this does not change the yellow sticker on the side......."

The 5200 pound tires will be sufficiant if the OP uses the supplied or similar tires. If he went to a 7-8000 axle, then he would need to change to a heavier weighted tire

[CWtheMan]

Yes, that's what I said: "Unfortunately, this does not change the yellow sticker on the side......."

The 5200 pound tires will be sufficiant if the OP uses the supplied or similar tires. If he went to a 7-8000 axle, then he would need to change to a heavier weighted tire

Tires are only required to be of a size and load capacity that equals the load capacity of the OE tires depicted on the certification label. Changing axles to a higher load capacity did nothing to increase the certified GAWRs. They remain at 5200#.

Remember, the ultimate limiting weight factor for your RV trailer is the certified GVWR.

[Dave W]

Tires are only required to be of a size and load capacity that equals the load capacity of the OE tires depicted on the certification label. Changing axles to a higher load capacity did nothing to increase the certified GAWRs. They remain at 5200#.

Remember, the ultimate limiting weight factor for your RV trailer is the certified GVWR.


You win as you have not a clue as to what I'm saying 5200 vs 6000 pound capacity. Or if you are who I think you are, I'll be beating my head against the wall

[CWSWine]

Saw a Cougar 28SGS with the front half of the 5er bent upwards probably 5 inches. It was sitting in the repair bay of dealer and the repair guy opened the front basement and this guy had three top part of a rollaway toolbox and several wood boxes full of truck parts and it piled to the ceiling. He as a self-employed truck repair guy and somewhat of a pack rat. They put a tongue jack under the 5er pin and pin weight over 4,000 pounds of pin weight and advertised dry pin was in 1600 pound range. He was trying to claim warranty repair....

[JRTJH]

Saw a Cougar 28SGS with the front half of the 5er bent upwards probably 5 inches. ...They put a tongue jack under the 5er pin and pin weight over 4,000 pounds of pin weight and advertised dry pin was in 1600 pound range. He was trying to claim warranty repair....

And the argument was: Keystone is ignoring my warranty repair. They said I was overloaded, but I've seen fifth wheels with 4500 pound pin weight and they don't break, so it's crap rolling off the Keystone lines and they won't back their junk when it does break..... BTHT (been there, heard that).....

[sourdough]

And the argument was: Keystone is ignoring my warranty repair. They said I was overloaded, but I've seen fifth wheels with 4500 pound pin weight and they don't break, so it's crap rolling off the Keystone lines and they won't back their junk when it does break..... BTHT (been there, heard that).....


I didn't know BTHT off the top of my head and thought you were improvising; "beer time, hear that?":D

[CWtheMan]

You win as you have not a clue as to what I'm saying 5200 vs 6000 pound capacity. Or if you are who I think you are, I'll be beating my head against the wall

It doesn't make a hoot what size axle is on the trailer as long as it will provide the load capacity of the vehicle certified GAWRs.

The standard for selecting tires for the RV trailer is the vehicle certified GAWR.

According to the trailer's certification label, nothing has changed. Anything (tires/wheels/axles) added that has a greater load capacity than the OE item it replaced is considered as having a load capacity reserve.

The load capacity (GVWR) of the trailer cannot be increased without certification. Recertification can only be done by the vehicle manufacturer of a certified vehicle modifier. In almost every instance recertification is more expensive than just trading for something with more load capacity.

[brodiegg]

I had a 1500 ram that could tow the trailer but the payload was exceeded. So I researched for hrs and the bottom line I got, YOU CANNOT INCREASE PAYLOAD. You can change springs, add air bags, change tires, but you will always have the max payload sticker on your door and it will not change. It was a tough pill to swallow, but just got a truck that will safely tow my coach and legally.

[sourdough]

I had a 1500 ram that could tow the trailer but the payload was exceeded. So I researched for hrs and the bottom line I got, YOU CANNOT INCREASE PAYLOAD. You can change springs, add air bags, change tires, but you will always have the max payload sticker on your door and it will not change. It was a tough pill to swallow, but just got a truck that will safely tow my coach and legally.


Thank you for the post. I've been there as well as many other members. Others just think the numbers are hogwash....at least I sleep well and don't worry about running afoul of the law or killing/damaging my family trying to cut corners.

[Dave W]

It doesn't make a hoot what size axle is on the trailer as long as it will provide the load capacity of the vehicle certified GAWRs.

The standard for selecting tires for the RV trailer is the vehicle certified GAWR.

According to the trailer's certification label, nothing has changed. Anything (tires/wheels/axles) added that has a greater load capacity than the OE item it replaced is considered as having a load capacity reserve.

The load capacity (GVWR) of the trailer cannot be increased without certification. Recertification can only be done by the vehicle manufacturer of a certified vehicle modifier. In almost every instance recertification is more expensive than just trading for something with more load capacity.

Talk about thickheadedness - wotinheck do you think I said - and repeated myself on my last response to you!!!!!!!!!

[CWtheMan]

Yes, that's what I said: "Unfortunately, this does not change the yellow sticker on the side......."

The 5200 pound tires will be sufficiant if the OP uses the supplied or similar tires. If he went to a 7-8000 axle, then he would need to change to a heavier weighted tire

Than I misunderstood the wording in orange to mean a tire with more load capacity, which, of course, is not needed.

A physically heavier tire in the same size designation would be something like this: ST235/80R16 LRE is a Polyester tire, ST235/80R16 LRG can be a steel cased tire which would be much heavier because it's also regroovable.

Another example of a physically heavier tire would be two ST235/80R16 LRE tires with one having sidewall inserts which add weight to the tire.

[rayjoanlough]

I was a letter carrier for 27yrs and I've seen Chiuahas that thought they were Dobermans!