Newbie Question: Pulling up a steep hill

[EDM]

I have ordered our first fifth wheel (Montana HC 350RL) and am super excited to get started. I have a newbie question. Many campgrounds in our area are near riverbeds and when leaving the campground there is a very steep hill to climb back up to the main road. In order to save the tread on the rear tires, is it advisable to use 4WD to pull up the hill, then go back to 2WD when you level out?

[Javi]

If you're spinning the rear wheels with that kind of load, YEP you might want to use 4X4... I been on some pretty steep hills with my rig and ain't busted a tire loose yet.. at least not on pavement... loose gravel or mud... then yep..

[Dadwoolery]

As a fellow newbie that just completed our first trip (4350 miles) to California and back to Minnesota, I would make sure you shut off the overdrive and just take it slow.

[KOZKO]

I have pulled up many steep hills (including just getting to my house) here in western PA and never needed 4x4. The pin weight has never let the tires break free, but it is always on finished roads - not dirt or gravel.

[Canonman]

I don't think overdrive has anything to do with slippage. You're puling 5+ tons of trailer up a hill to the main road. You've certainly added as much weight to the rear wheels as you can:) so if you are slipping it's time for the front wheels to do some work.
You've got the idea exactly right from what I've experienced with both boats and travel trailers.

[sourdough]

I have ordered our first fifth wheel (Montana HC 350RL) and am super excited to get started. I have a newbie question. Many campgrounds in our area are near riverbeds and when leaving the campground there is a very steep hill to climb back up to the main road. In order to save the tread on the rear tires, is it advisable to use 4WD to pull up the hill, then go back to 2WD when you level out?

IMO anytime you are pulling a load (or not for that matter) and start spinning your tires trying to climb a hill, 1) lighten up on the throttle if that is the issue, 2) engage 4wd to limit what could be an aggravating experience. If this is your first 5th wheel and you are going down into river beds, leaves me thinking there are probably trees somewhere along that route; watch out for the height of the trailer in the trees.

[Wxman]

OP, I don't see where you mentioned any tire slippage. If you are just asking about 4wd to even out the tire wear during hard pulling, spreading the load a little, then I would say no. If you are locked in 4wd the differences between front and rear driveshafts probably worse for tire wear. If you are in some kind of AUTO 4wd, then the front probably isn't doing anything until the rear slips anyway. Timely tire rotations are what keeps your tread wear even.

If I misinterpreted your question and you are in fact experiencing some tire slippage/spinning, or you are concerned you might then yes on the 4wd. Not really for tire wear, but for safety and 'smooth sailing'.

[MattE303]

Depending on how steep the hill and how slow you're going, you might want to engage 4LO just for the lower gearing. The private road up to our house is steep and twisty enough that I need to do this. First time we brought the trailer home I didn't know to do that and got the tranny really hot :eek:

[Dorrie]

What happens you don't have 4 wheel drive? Just take it a bit slowly if spinning. Now if stopped and on a steep gravel road to pull out onto main road would it be wise to put in a lower gear? Just asking.

[bob91yj]

You really only want to use 4x4 if you have tire slip. If you have an "auto" function on your 4x4 system you can use that. If you only have 4x4 hi/lo, try to avoid using it on a paved road as the drivetrain can get into a bind, especially if making turns.

[FlyingAroundRV]

You should avoid using 4WD on hard surfaces. There are always slight differences in tire circumferences and when you are on a hard surface, the differences in the rolling speeds of the front wheels compared to the rear wheels (from steering etc) puts a lot of strain on the transfer case gears.
However, If your vehicle is an AWD as opposed to 4WD, the transfer case will likely have differential gears which allow 4WD on hard surfaces.

[travelin texans]

If your truck is equipped with the tow/haul, always engage it when towing, 4 wheel drive or otherwise, it saves your tranny & also assist in going downhill.

[Freeheel4life]

You should avoid using 4WD on hard surfaces. There are always slight differences in tire circumferences and when you are on a hard surface, the differences in the rolling speeds of the front wheels compared to the rear wheels (from steering etc) puts a lot of strain on the transfer case gears.
However, If your vehicle is an AWD as opposed to 4WD, the transfer case will likely have differential gears which allow 4WD on hard surfaces.

Hmm, this is something Ive never really put much thought into before. So I regularly tow on packed snow and ice. I guess I could see there being a lot of drivetrain stress with a locking rear differential while cornering in 4 but with an open diff would it really be an issue?? I have towed a lot of miles in 4wd on my 2000 F150 as even with added rear axle weight occasionally the rears would break loose so I would tow in 4 to keep the whole show moving forward. Havent had any issues yet but is there an argument to be made for that shortening Tcase life span or is the coefficient of friction on packed snow and ice low enough that the wheels can slip during those periods of different speeds.

Sorry for thread derail in advance. Probably should have started a new thread but figured we were still somewhat on track.

[MTBlazer89]

Hmm, this is something Ive never really put much thought into before. So I regularly tow on packed snow and ice. I guess I could see there being a lot of drivetrain stress with a locking rear differential while cornering in 4 but with an open diff would it really be an issue?? I have towed a lot of miles in 4wd on my 2000 F150 as even with added rear axle weight occasionally the rears would break loose so I would tow in 4 to keep the whole show moving forward. Havent had any issues yet but is there an argument to be made for that shortening Tcase life span or is the coefficient of friction on packed snow and ice low enough that the wheels can slip during those periods of different speeds.

Sorry for thread derail in advance. Probably should have started a new thread but figured we were still somewhat on track.

Yes it will still be an issue on a hard dry surface. Travelling straight as necessary is ok, but you don't want to be in 4hi on dry pavement loaded or unloaded,

[bob91yj]

X2 on the 4Hi, you may get away with it on snow/ice, but not on dry pavement.

Open differential allows for different wheel speeds on that axle, but not through the transfer case between axles...UNLESS, you have what GM calls the "Auto 4wd" (not sure what Ford/Dodge call that position on the tcase shifter) which will usually have a viscous coupling/differential in the transfer case. AWD systems have some form of a coupling/differential in the transfer case.

[Javi]

You need some slippage in 4X4 but it isn't so critical that the truck explodes the second you hit dry pavement.. Loose sand, gravel or even dirt is good to go.. But I have engaged 4x4 on drive pavement when the rear slipped trying to pull a 80,000 pound 18 wheeler back onto the road on more than one occasion and have yet to blow a transfer case in the instant..

Drive from Dallas to Ft. Worth on dry pavement and you'll most likely tweak it a mite... :D

[FlyingAroundRV]

Hmm, this is something Ive never really put much thought into before. So I regularly tow on packed snow and ice. I guess I could see there being a lot of drivetrain stress with a locking rear differential while cornering in 4 but with an open diff would it really be an issue?? I have towed a lot of miles in 4wd on my 2000 F150 as even with added rear axle weight occasionally the rears would break loose so I would tow in 4 to keep the whole show moving forward. Havent had any issues yet but is there an argument to be made for that shortening Tcase life span or is the coefficient of friction on packed snow and ice low enough that the wheels can slip during those periods of different speeds.

Sorry for thread derail in advance. Probably should have started a new thread but figured we were still somewhat on track.
As long as there can be some slippage, the transfer case should cope with it. Snow and ice should provide enough slippage that the stress on the transfer case can be relieved a little. The transfer case is pretty strong, but if you read your manual, it will say don't use 4WD on hard dry surfaces. Snow and ice definitely don't classify as "hard dry surface" so you should be OK there.

[sourdough]

X2 on the 4Hi, you may get away with it on snow/ice, but not on dry pavement.

Open differential allows for different wheel speeds on that axle, but not through the transfer case between axles...UNLESS, you have what GM calls the "Auto 4wd" (not sure what Ford/Dodge call that position on the tcase shifter) which will usually have a viscous coupling/differential in the transfer case. AWD systems have some form of a coupling/differential in the transfer case.


You can run 4x4 on dry pavement but not 4 locked (diffs or xfer case) for any distance. If you have a shift on the fly 4x4 it will run on dry pavement if you're not doing a lot of city driving (straight driving). Obviously it will do fine in dirt, snow or mud. Driving in 4 hi on pavement and turning you can hear the tires binding even if you don't have lockers. In the OPs case trying to go up the hill and preventing slippage should be fine - or in that case, just trying to use 4 drive wheels, and if the incline is great enough, 4 lo. The new "full time 4 wheel drives" with locking diffs/xfer case and lo range as I've had in my Hummer and Toyota 4runners are the best of both worlds IMO. I don't recall what they call them but they operate wonderfully. Went over Imogene pass in the Hummer and never took it out of drive - it just did its thing. Tried lockers (Detroit) in some of my old 4x4s but that made them only good for offroading IMO because they were so picky. Went to Detroit TruTracs which were my favorite because they didn't just mess you up all the time in 4 wheel drive in non drastic situations. They would however get your attention on partially snow covered roads by deciding to lock up on some snow and then hit some pavement thereby jerking the wheel hither and yon.

As far as the OP; use the 4wd to go up the steep hill (I am assuming fairly straight - boat ramp kind of thing), use 4 hi/4lo to get out of the questionable spot then get out of 4wd. It won't do a thing for tire wear per se. If you have sharp curves, switchbacks etc. you will want to know exactly what kind of 4wd you have and its limitations.

I've had a lot of 4x4 experience and I'm sure there are others on here that have had as much or more. I've not destroyed a differential or xfer case trying to do what the OP is describing - maybe I'm just lucky...;):hide:

[bob91yj]

I've been a rock crawler/desert racer for 20+ years, very familiar with lockers and transfer cases. I never said that it's going to instantly grenade a differential or transfer case the minute that it is put into 4 wheel drive.

The OP seemed unfamiliar with the operation of the 4x4 system on the vehicle. A part time 4x4 design should not be used on dry/hard surfaces, nothing good is going to happen. I tried to explain "auto" 4wd/AWD system's can be used on hard/dry surfaces, apparently I failed.

[flybouy]

I have ordered our first fifth wheel (Montana HC 350RL) and am super excited to get started. I have a newbie question. Many campgrounds in our area are near riverbeds and when leaving the campground there is a very steep hill to climb back up to the main road. In order to save the tread on the rear tires, is it advisable to use 4WD to pull up the hill, then go back to 2WD when you level out?

You don't list your truck so I'll relate this to my truck. I have been in similar situations with our travel trailer (not a 5w). I've used 4wd to gain traction but switch to 2wd as soon as I get on a hard surface. Using 4wd on a hard surface and turning the front wheels will cause axe binding and can result in driveline damage, at least on my truck. You should consult your owner's manual to find what the manufacturer recommends for your truck.

[labman]

One of my first experiences pulling the Sprinter 5th wheel was requiring me to make a u turn and go up a wet gravel hill to get to our campsite. The 6.7 started to buck so I pulled the lock on the rear wheels and put it in 4wd and it pulled the 10K pound trailer up the hill to the campsite. Still bucking, I got out to inspect and discovered the brake emergency plug got disconnected during the tight u turn and I pulled the 5er up the hill with it's brakes locked.:banghead: DW had a good laugh at that one. But it did prove the 6.7 powerstroke had some serious pulling power......

[sourdough]

I've been a rock crawler/desert racer for 20+ years, very familiar with lockers and transfer cases. I never said that it's going to instantly grenade a differential or transfer case the minute that it is put into 4 wheel drive.

The OP seemed unfamiliar with the operation of the 4x4 system on the vehicle. A part time 4x4 design should not be used on dry/hard surfaces, nothing good is going to happen. I tried to explain "auto" 4wd/AWD system's can be used on hard/dry surfaces, apparently I failed.

I'm assuming your post was about mine in regards to the 4x4 "stuff". My only thought was about your comment that 4x4 can't be used on hard/dry surfaces. Of course they can; not as a matter of normal operation, not while you try to navigate a trials course etc., but, if you want to engage 4 wheel for a short time in a straight line trying to get out of a bind on a hard surface...no problem. Not trying to be argumentative but trying to marginalize the "broad sweep" of the brush - for a person that apparently doesn't know anything about 4x4 (the poster).

[packnrat]

if your tires lose traction on a hill.
first what kind of tires are you using.
second what kind of pavment? dirt? gravel?
third what is the angle you are trying to pull up?
get a limited slip rear diff, most 4X4 systems will
break down if you are on dry pavement. all four tires rotate a bit differnt and solid gear boxes do not like this set up something has to give. a gear U-bolt, tire slipage, etc.
is your transfer case a "all wheel drive? that can do this job on dry pavement.

[mfifield01]

I have used 4wd to get my TT from storage many times. It is stored on gravel with dirt below surface. If it rains days before I pick it up, I typically need to engage 4wd lock (same as hi) to get it out. I turn it off before I make any turns.

[msp2jxr]

If you are on gravel i say reach for 4 wheel. If you are on tar or concrete definantly not. You may damage your 4 wheel system unless designed for full time 4 wheel.

[jlb27537]

I have ordered our first fifth wheel (Montana HC 350RL) and am super excited to get started. I have a newbie question. Many campgrounds in our area are near riverbeds and when leaving the campground there is a very steep hill to climb back up to the main road. In order to save the tread on the rear tires, is it advisable to use 4WD to pull up the hill, then go back to 2WD when you level out?

Your Id shows Nixa. If you are pulling up out of Mill Creek or such, just 2wd is fine. Gravel road, might need 4x4.

Enjoy that new rig...

[Forrest]

You will find that 4WD will be useful if you ever camp on wet grass and try to pull off the site if it has a slight hill. In two wheel drive, if one wheel slips, the other one most like will not turn, unless you have pose-traction.

[Drew]

If you are in doubt, use in 4x4 mode. It spreads the torque over all the wheels, eliminates spinning (if you spin all 4 you shouldn't be there in the first place) and is generally easier on equipment. Just don't forget to change back to 2 wheel drive when you want to resume normal speeds. In any case, most vehicles don't get enough use in 4x4 and should be exercised occasionally to spread lubricant around and prevent vibration "wear spots" from happening where the differential gears touch.

[larryflew]

As mentioned you probably don't need to do anything. Between truck torque and the pin weight you are not likely to have a problem. I even back a 16000 pound trailer up a steep driveway. Only once when it was a little icy did I need 4wd even for that.

[TimPasq]

We have a number of years with different trailers/RVs including 5th wheel. Much of it in back country, hilly including 20 years in Colorado Rockies and Wyoming, MT and ID. Lots of time in National Forests and National Parks. When on paved road and not wet or snow normally no reason for 4X4. On gravel roads and just pulling out or starting out from a stop and on an incline or approaching an incline use 4X4 before you get to the tire slippage stage. Experience says no matter the conditions begin the pull with a slow gradual acceleration. The issue is primarily safety and control, not tire wear.

[Sunnysidebeach]

You really only want to use 4x4 if you have tire slip. If you have an "auto" function on your 4x4 system you can use that. If you only have 4x4 hi/lo, try to avoid using it on a paved road as the drivetrain can get into a bind, especially if making turns.

Exactly, use the auto 4x4 mode or if you don't have that, make sure you keep it straight when engaging the 4x4 mode.