How long before replacing factory tires [Archive]

sourdough

07-12-2018, 12:21 PM

Jefster,

I'm one of the ones that would suggest removing them as soon as you can. I waited until my 2nd season (unfortunately) then mine blew and did $7k in damages.

I know there are folks that have used them for years like Zuley but I think if you look at this and other forums you will find far too many stories of the poor construction and self destruction of the tires.

To me, for you, I would be extremely worried about pulling a 39' trailer with 11 people in a van, possibly overloaded (weights will tell), then have one of these come apart and send you careening down the roadway. YMMV

MattE303

07-12-2018, 12:44 PM

yup, get rid of those China Bombs ASAP! Do some reading, particularly in the Tires! Tires! Tires! (http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=135) forum. I would go up a load range from the OEM tires, and stick with the brands others here recommend.

cynjon

07-12-2018, 01:07 PM

What they said...

I bought a new 2015 5er in 2017, and rolled the dice for a year with the still new (but 3 years old) Trailer Kings. I didn't have any issues, but wasn't going to gamble on another year. I bought the $67 Carlisles from Amazon, went up a Load range from D to E, and sleep much better at night knowing that my $260 investment was likely to greatly reduce my chances of a several thousand dollar blowout repair.

tim5055

07-12-2018, 01:11 PM

I consider myself an outlier when it comes to tires. I do not like the China tires all the manufacturers seem to use, but I personally feel many of the issues are due to road hazard rather than the low quality of the tire.

To answer the question, I changed all five on our 2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 297RLDS after 1 year. I have not changed the 3 tires on our 2015 Aliner yet.

Now, to the question not asked - Shortly after we purchased the 2014 Coachmen I purchased this package from PressurePro https://tirepressuremonitor.com/product/16-wheel-package-8-sensors/

In addition to the Coachmen we have a Aliner for back country trips and I will not tow either camper without the TPMS

They alert to either over-pressure or under-pressure and have now saved me four times.

Three times I have picked up road debris (nails ect.) in a single tire and the slow leak was detected and alerted to me in sufficient time to exit the highway and have repairs made. The fourth time was a crack in one of the tow vehicle tire valve stems.

All four times I'm sure had I not had the TPMS the tire affected would have leaked to the point of the tire overheating and a catastrophic failure. On every occasion once I was able to stop in a place of safety and look at the tire causing the alarm I noticed no distinct observable difference from the others. Only with a tire gauge was I able to verify the low pressure condition. So, at a casual glance at a fuel stop if I didn't have the TPMS I don't think I would have seen the "low" tire.

This has led me to believe that many of the reports of "junk Chinese" tires failing are really road debris/leakage failures that lowered the pressure in the tire to the point of catastrophic failure. Folks don't know what they don't know. You have a catastrophic tire failure without a TPMS and you just figure "Chinese junk tires". With a TPMS you find out exactly how often we pick up road debris and get a leak in a tire.

I have now swapped all rubber valve stems for metal.

Friends don't let friends tow without a TPMS system!!

Laredo Tugger

07-12-2018, 01:36 PM

OK, I have to ask. This thread presents a good opportunity to throw out an idea. Here goes.......
The tire blows and starts to separate and as it spins it extends out and makes contact with the top of the wheel well and tears into the material above it (let's go with plywood that is part of the slide construction) and then proceeds to "grab" whatever it can to destroy in the wheel well,plumbing,electrical and structural components ect.. of the camper.
I think we all agree with this scenario. I have seen on here where some have installed diamond plate (heavy? and lots of screws) above the tire inside the wheel well. I was wondering if half inch (or 3/4"?) PVC (Schd 40, the thick stuff) pipe pieces laid horizontal (in line with tire travel direction) and screwed in on the ends only (less screws,less chance of drilling to critical components) would be a lightweight material that would "conform" to the strikes by the tire and still be sturdy enough to take a hit. Maybe 8-10 pieces in each wheel well should work. If you have ever struck this pipe material from the side, you know it is tough stuff,especially if it moves a bit. Just thinking of a lightweight material that could "flex" a little and take the impact of a blown tire.
Crazy?
P.S. No I have not done this or know anyone that has. Am I willing to be the first? Depends on the feedback here. ;)
RMc

MattE303

07-12-2018, 01:36 PM

Now, to the question not asked - Shortly after we purchased the 2014 Coachmen I purchased this package from PressurePro https://tirepressuremonitor.com/prod...age-8-sensors/

link doesn't work.

CWtheMan

07-12-2018, 02:29 PM

Do your tires have a load capacity, when inflated to the vehicle manufacturers recommended inflation pressures, that is 10% higher than the certified GAWR axles maximum load?

Underinflated tires and vehicle overloading is much more important than DOT certified tires that have sufficient load capacity reserves.

Vehicle scales are your friend. They will tell you where your vehicle weights rest and assist you in managing imbalanced conditions.

tim5055

07-12-2018, 04:23 PM

link doesn't work.https://tirepressuremonitor.com/product/16-wheel-package-8-sensors/

Canonman

07-12-2018, 05:44 PM

We replaced our TK original equipment tires after the first season worrying about when they might BLOW!
Bought the Carlisles at Walmart two seasons ago and did go up one load rating, D to E. Had a regular tire dealer mount them with new metal valve stems. Then added a TST 507 TPMS with flow through sensors www.greatrvproducts.com/online-store/507-Series-4-Flow-Thru-Sensor-TPMS-System-w-Monochrome-Display-p101101797?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-JvaBRDGARIsAFjqkkqRpm9Ea5UGcnP5x13yHucDBWvsVdQoM-ufpJJ4ESev2MH4D3PimLEaAjQREALw_wcB.
Just finished a 2k mile trip to central Oregon and had total peace of mind:)
I'd say do it as soon as you can. You won't regret it!

flybouy

07-13-2018, 06:44 AM

My advise would be before you take delivery. Sounds like it's too late perhaps but negotiate with your dealer on swapping them out before you hit the road. JMHO YMMY

CWtheMan

07-15-2018, 11:46 PM

My advise would be before you take delivery. Sounds like it's too late perhaps but negotiate with your dealer on swapping them out before you hit the road. JMHO YMMY

It's very difficult for a dealer to change tires, especially before the papers are signed. That's because they are not authorized to change certification labels for anything other than a vehicle manufacturer recommended option.

Tires on a new vehicles are normally registered by the manufacturer and kept on file for 5 years.

Changing brands without changing sizes is not a problem for the dealer. They may even go up a load range if the tire size remains the same.

This is a statement found in the Keystone 2019 generic owner's manual. It hasn't changed for years: To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. It's a canned statement found in just about all RV trailer tire owner manuals. To explain it's validity is a long drawn-out process. It can be charted to the vehicle certification rules under CFR 49 part 567.

stolly23

07-16-2018, 02:40 AM

Jefster

07-16-2018, 03:29 AM

Ok so here's a dumb question, some have said I can get tires at Walmart, but how is Walmart going to change the tires on my trailer? They could barely handle changing the tires in my van the last time I brought it there, certainly they aren't putting my trailer up on the lift and changing putting new tires on it. Or do you have to bring the RV to the dealer to do it?

KCSA75

07-16-2018, 03:58 AM

Jefster

07-16-2018, 04:38 AM

theasphaltrv'er

07-16-2018, 04:46 AM

Jefster..What is the GVWR & do you know what the travel weight is as it's going down the road fully loaded.
Let me attack it from the other direction.
I'm of the belief that the lighter trailers don't have the problems with the so called "China Bombs" as the heavier trailers do. Sure all tires manufactures will have some problem tires. Our past 2 TT 's & 5th wheel (27 yrs worth of travels) all have weighted in the neighborhood of 8500 lbs fully loaded with GVWR of 9600 lbs. We have run only D rated Duro's, Max Tow, Greenball, and some other "China Bombs" and never (knock on wood) have had a blow out. Had one Duro develop a bubble and a fender support break and get into the tire and cause one to peel thread, but they did not blow. Running Trailer Kings now and have 4 years on em with a little over 6500 miles. We keep em covered and put 303 Protestant on em and make sure they are at 65 lbs and run no faster than 63-65 mph. So IMO, China Bombs are ok if used on the lighter trailers. Looking to replace the Trailer Kings this fall. JMO

flybouy

07-16-2018, 05:03 AM

Oh boy. I am starting to regret finding this forum. Lol. But actually starting to regret buying the cougar. What i have learned so far is cant use it without adding a second ac and cant use it until you replace the brand new tires. Did I buy a junk camper? Plastic sinks, plastic faucets, half plastic toilets. I downgraded by the sounds of things. I want my jayco back

This is a forum, is not a manufactures help desk so you are reading OPINIONS and PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, not GOSPEL. There are folks here with a great deal of knowledge and experience and some folks who work on campers for a living. For me personally I tend to add more merit to the opinion of someone who's seen it, worked on it a hundred times as opposed to someone who did it once or read about it and postulate their opinions as fact. Consider this forum like a communal campfire, a bunch of good intentioned folks that you don't know, never meet that are trying to help. As for your regrets for your purchase I don't think those sinks, toilets, or any other article or quality of craftsmanship has changed since the first time you stepped into the camper. People tend to get blinded when making a new purchase of a house, RV, boat, house etc. by the "oh isn't that pretty" or "look how big this is compared to our old camper" and tend to stop looking with an unbiased view. It's happened to all but the most cynical of us (and I think they are just to embarrassed to admit it). I hope you get things settled and can enjoy your new camper and make delightful memories for you and your family.

cynjon

07-16-2018, 06:30 AM

I'm looking at my local discount tire, and I'm not seeing too many options for the carlisles. Is brand more important than rating? The Carlisles I'm finding are only D load, but I could move up to an E load rating with tires from Taskmaster or Hartland. But I've never heard of them, and they haven't been recommended on this site from what I can find.

I bought my Carlisles online from Amazon, as the price was the same as walmart.com at $67 each. I had them installed at Walmart because it was quick and convenient (and I don't have a Discount Tire locally), for around $50 if I recall. Grand total was about $320. I sold my TKs on Craigslist to a guy who needed some utility trailer tires with full disclosure of age, mileage, and my opinion that they were fit for light duty use only, and priced them accordingly. All in all, it was a $200 upgrade that appears to be money well spent, as I've towed the 5er with the Carlisles around 500 miles now and they've performed great.

CWtheMan

07-16-2018, 06:37 AM

KCSA75

07-16-2018, 08:06 AM

I'm looking at my local discount tire, and I'm not seeing too many options for the carlisles. Is brand more important than rating? The Carlisles I'm finding are only D load, but I could move up to an E load rating with tires from Taskmaster or Hartland. But I've never heard of them, and they haven't been recommended on this site from what I can find.

I didn't see any E-rated tires online, but there is a DT store not far from my office. I stopped in over lunch one day and spoke with the manager. He was very accommodating. You might give your store a call or stop by.

Also, Hartland is DT's exclusive brand. I don't know much about them but checked with my old friend Google and found the following:
http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27771
https://www.google.com/search?q=hartland+trailer+tires+site:www.keystonef orums.com&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjml8zl_6PcAhUMw1kKHeJ1BiYQrQII4QEoAjAG&biw=1536&bih=732
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheels-tires/1611-hartland-trailer-tires-tested/

sstedman

07-19-2018, 07:31 AM

Two days after I bought my Cougar I replaced the tires. Safety can't wait!!

msubobcats

07-19-2018, 07:36 AM

We were just in Denver for a family reunion. On Sunday heading to my Cousins in Littleton on C470 we passed a TT that had a blowout. It sure was not pretty.

CWtheMan

07-19-2018, 08:48 AM

There is a flaw in the specs for your trailer I used when reviewing your trailer. The reference isn’t from keystone so I’ll leave it up to you to confirm the info using your trailers certification label.

In the reference below they list your GVWR as 8000# with a 825 tongue weight. That will not work with the tires they list as the OEM size the trailer should have been delivered with.

When you deduct the 825# from 8000# and divide by 2 you get 3587.5. That is the minimum legal load capacity for tire fitments. The ST205/75R14C tires in the reference do not provide that much load capacity and would warrant a recall action against Keystone for that unsafe condition.

If you find that condition on your certification label, report it to the dealer. If they take no action report it to keystone - with pictures of the certification label.

IMO, Original Equipment tires on all RV trailers need to be upgraded to have a load capacity 10% above the trailer’s certified GAWRs.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2018-keystone-passport-ultra-lite-grand-touring-travel-trailer-floorplan-3290bh-tr34271

Hey Louie

07-19-2018, 09:11 AM

I suspect the majority of the responces will be "immediately". I ran mine for three years with no grief but I suspect I am one of the lucky ones.

I must be one of the lucky ones as well. Our last 5er had Pantera tires. I checked the air pressure prior to every trip and drove wisley. Had them for 7 years and over 20,000 miles with no issues. Was going to replace them this year but bought a new 5er instead. :D

You need to do what will allow you to enjoy your travels.

larryflew

07-19-2018, 11:49 AM

We bought a used 2011 Alpine (16000 pounds). Was not driven much and tires looked fine and I check pressures and temperatures every stop with those add on pressure sensors and with electronic temp tester. 2015 trip from MN to AZ by way of TX and AZ to MN on way back. 3 blow outs at 3 different times. Bought the best hvy duty Goodyears I could find and they cost less than the 3 blowout replacements even though the first one was free using the spare.

Jefster

07-19-2018, 01:38 PM

BadmanRick

07-19-2018, 02:16 PM

We have a 2011 bullet Premier ty. It came with Power king TowMax srt tires. These tires are rated at 75 mph. Most other tires are rated at 60-65 mph. This is below interstate highway speeds. When you exceed the MAX LIMITS the tires blow out very quickly.
I have only found a couple of other trailer tires with this speed rating or higher. The highest I found was 85 mph. But the tires were a lot more expensive. You get what you pay for.

sourdough

07-19-2018, 02:56 PM

My actual tires, and the sticker on the trailer for equipment, has 225 75 r15 D. So that's at least a little better than whatever specs you were looking at. I'll still upgrade to E as soon as I get the chance, but I think it is within the D load range

Jefster, here is part of the problem with RV tires. The size tire you have has a weight rating of 2540 lbs. per tire (memory) and you have an 8000 lb. gvw trailer. You should be OK with the exception of them being China bombs. On the other hand I had Trailer Kings (you have Tow Max if I recall - about the same thing) and my gvw is 10k. You have a more room to play weight wise than I did. I've seen them using the LRDs on trailers in the 6k range....and still on 10k; makes no sense to me.

In your case, with the cargo you are going to be carrying (all those kids) I would not chance the bombs; I would go to LRE in a good, reputable tire just for safety's sake.

oldtimer

07-19-2018, 03:07 PM

I put maybe 8000 miles on my 2016 Outback. Drove about 50 miles with a shredded tire (unknowingly) and got to a tire store where they told me not only did I have one bad tire, but 4 tires with separated cords. $400 later, feeling very lucky, I now have better piece of mind.

I.plod

07-19-2018, 05:20 PM

Oh good heavens, I had mine for 4 years and had no problems.

notanlines

07-19-2018, 06:11 PM

Oh good heavens, I had mine for 4 years and had no problems.
Maybe fill us in on what you had for four years....

sourdough

07-19-2018, 07:40 PM

Oh good heavens, I had mine for 4 years and had no problems.

I had "mine" for 4 years and had no problems?......what were "mine"? Tire brand, size LR, trailer gvw etc. This thread is about a family loading a van with 11 kids and umpteen kinds of gear to travel. Their safety is paramount. You had "yours" for 4 years, basically encouraging the OP to keep the China bombs; please expound for everyone's benefit. Historical data and user feedback actually would urge the OP to use caution....not listen to an " I had mine for 4 years" remark with no substance. JMO

ubetcha

07-20-2018, 04:24 AM

Just reading these stories about " China Bombs" and wondering if someone has a good/bad list of tires. I did have a tire blow out on my old camper ( 1996 Starline Nomad) and replaced them with Goodyear Marathons. I now have a 2017 Hideout RLS with Karrier Load Star tire. I have not looked at tire size or load rating yet. Wondering if its recommended to place these tires.

ChuckS

07-20-2018, 06:24 AM

It’s a great group here with tons of “real world” experience to share.

Personally I would not run Tow Max or Trailer King tires at all...

Do some google searches on those tires and they clearly are junk.

Yes I replaced my TK tires at 2000 miles. No I did not buy American made replacements.

I upgraded from E rated 10 ply to 14 ply G rated Chinese tires and after four seasons use have no worries.

Look at the pics of tire damage from TK or TM tires and make your decision.

Also... no RV tire will stand up to towing at 75 mph especially on 90 degree plus days.

Tow at 62 to 65 with proper inflation and ride with a peace of mind.

ubetcha

07-21-2018, 09:27 AM

I just checked the tire size and load rating on my Load Stars and the size is ST205/75R14 load C . . Also embossed on the side said made in China.

CWtheMan

07-21-2018, 10:01 PM

I just checked the tire size and load rating on my Load Stars and the size is ST205/75R14 load C . . Also embossed on the side said made in China.

According to your trailer's specs you have tires rated at a maximum of 3520# on axles rated at 3500#. If you're going to carry somewhere around 1000# or more cargo in your trailer you should think very seriously of upgrading your tires to LRD. That would provide you with about 15% more load capacity, in reserve.

ubetcha

07-22-2018, 06:07 PM

According to your trailer's specs you have tires rated at a maximum of 3520# on axles rated at 3500#. If you're going to carry somewhere around 1000# or more cargo in your trailer you should think very seriously of upgrading your tires to LRD. That would provide you with about 15% more load capacity, in reserve.

These numbers are starting to get confusing. Your quote of 3520 # would be for one axle correct? This campers has two axle's so that would give me a capacity of 7040# total. The listed GVWR is 7825#. Even with all these figures flying around, I think I would still be better off with LDRD or higher. Man I getting confused.�� The GVWR is a number I should not exceed ,which includes the trailer and cargo,right?

ctbruce

07-23-2018, 02:40 AM

CWtheMan

07-23-2018, 12:55 PM

These numbers are starting to get confusing. Your quote of 3520 # would be for one axle correct? This campers has two axle's so that would give me a capacity of 7040# total. The listed GVWR is 7825#. Even with all these figures flying around, I think I would still be better off with LDRD or higher. Man I getting confused.�� The GVWR is a number I should not exceed ,which includes the trailer and cargo,right?

I was just trying to keep it simple.

When thinking tires for RV trailers you need to concentrate on their design, how they are selected and fitted by the trailer manufacturer.

Tires for our trailers are not required to provide anything more in load capacity than what the trailer manufacturer has certified the axles to carry. The axles on your trailer will have the vehicle manufacturer’s certified GAWR load capacities listed on the vehicle federal certification label. That label will be displayed externally with a tire & load label on the left hand or driver side of the trailer forward of the axles.

Here is how the math works. The total GAWR maximum loads, when added to the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended/published tongue weight MUST not be less than the trailer’s GVWR.

Another standard is worded sort of like this. The tires fitted to the trailer by the vehicle manufacturer must provide a load capacity that is an appropriate fitment in accordance with the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended cold inflation pressures.

Therein lies a very high percentage of early RV trailer tire failures, no load capacity reserves.

The current rules for our tires were approved by NHTSA and finalized in 2007. Many of the rules committee members recommended a 12-15% load capacity reserve be added to the trailer tire standards. They were not approved. The current track record for replacement tires with a higher load capacity than the OE tires, seems to support the fact that, RV trailer tires are in desperate need of excess load capacity.

From the information I found, your trailer has 3500# GAWR axles. The ST205/75R14D provides 2040# of load capacity @ 65 PSI, that’s more than 15% in load capacity reserves above the axles maximum load capacity. There are at least a half dozen ST tire manufacturer’s that build that sized tire with a LRD. One in the USA.

With the LRD tires being the same physical size and design as those listed on your certification label, the validity of the tire size on the certification label is not compromised. Why? Because both load ranges require the use of identical load inflation charts. In other words, the LRD will provide the identical load capacity of the LRC @ 50 PSI. Everything above the 50 PSI is optional and considered load capacity reserves.

YstoneWY

10-13-2018, 05:31 PM

Have over 13k on factory TrailerKings that came on our 2016 Cougar XLite 27rks 5th wheel. Just now starting to show tread wear, and will replace before next spring. Tires are rated at 65 mph and we drive 65-67. Speed kills tires!

Jefster

10-13-2018, 05:41 PM

So when I started this thread I also had a conversation with my dad who has his original Trailer Kings on his Rockwood 5th wheel. He's never worried too much about them, but after talking decided next spring he's going to replace them. Then he also decided TPMS would be a good idea, so he ordered one and installed it this summer.
Well this week he had a blowout. No warnings, tire pressure was good, temps were good, traveling 63 miles per hour. Lost half a fender.
He put on the spare and drove off down the road. 1.5 hours later, TPMS shows something wrong with a tire on the opposite side. He pulled over to find the tread completely gone and tire losing pressure. Lost the whole fender on that side when the tread came off. But TPMS saved him from blowing out on that side and doing even more damage.
So on the side of the road without a spare, he called in a mobile tire unit who replaced all 4 tires with Goodyears right there on the highway.
I didn't ask what that cost:)

shermris

10-13-2018, 06:00 PM

Too many people only consider tire tread when they look at their tires. Tires can go bad at 1,000 miles or less if they are old enough to show signs of deterioration. Any weather checking on the side wall is a sign that the tires need replacing, even if the tread looks new. Tire aging is basically an issue of oxidation, rubber exposed to oxygen dries out and becomes stiffer, and cracks. When a tire is driven, the pressure and flexing motion circulate the internal oils through the rubber. These oils lubricate the internal rubber and keep it from drying and stiffening. So tires that are used less are often more vulnerable to aging effects. Six years is old for a trailer tire, they sit much of the time and all winter long in many cases. I put between 1,000 to 3,000 miles a year on my tires and they are typically replaced before the tread is below 50% due to age, heat, and lack of movement.

hornet28

10-13-2018, 06:59 PM

I was talking with my brother, who hauled new RVs out of Goshen to dealers. He said it was commonplace for tires to go bad while delivering.

mcomeaux

10-13-2018, 08:23 PM

Just replaced mine on a 2017 Fuzion. Mine had MFG dates from 4715-1216. getting ready to travel next 6 months on the road just want peace of mind with 22K running down road. And yes the dealer that mounted the tires looked confused at first but understood. "Old Tires still Appeared very good" putting them on craigslist....

ctbruce

10-14-2018, 03:42 AM

There are posts after posts after more posts if examples where these tires go bad. It's not a question of if they will go bad, its a question of when they'll go bad.

Do yourself a favor and replace them before they blow. It really is that simple.

Snoking

10-14-2018, 05:32 AM

I was talking with my brother, who hauled new RVs out of Goshen to dealers. He said it was commonplace for tires to go bad while delivering.

Now that is the real issue with about 90 percent of the OEM ST tires. They are cheaply made. People in this thread are talking about tires that cost 68 or 70 dollars to put on a trailer that they paid 20, 30, 40 .... thousand for.

I took our new 2019 Laredo 225MK with Goodride tires and replaced them with Goodyear Endurance tires. The new ST225/75R15E tires cost $641.15 out the door mounted and balanced. Sold the LRD Goodrides on CL for $200 in a day and a half.

When we bought out 2017 Bighorn 3575el in May of 2016 it came with Sailun S637 ST235/85R16G's. In the years before they put Blow Max tires on them and people had many failures.

The problem is that to many trailer manufacturers just buy the deal of the day from Tredit or Tireco. The trailer manufacturer does not have to stand behind the tires, so some manufacturers let their bean counters select the train car loads of pre-mounted wheels and tires based on lowest price available.

If you can by a tire for 68 or 70 at retail, what do you think Tredit or Tireco sells it to the trailer manufacturer for? And that includes the shipment from china, mounting and distribution within North America.

Cal can talk all he wants about reserves and care of ones tires, however if you start with cheap junk, it will still be cheap junk while you are sitting on the side of the highway with the side of your trailer blown off.

So I am happy with my decision to install the new Endurance Goodyear's, knowing that Goodyear after developing this new ST tire is going to stand behind it, and that there is a very high provability that they will pay to repair my trailer if it is damaged by the failure of one of my Endurance tires similar to their support of their LRG G614 tire.

Chris

Snoking

10-14-2018, 05:39 AM

ctbruce

10-14-2018, 05:56 AM

Now that is the real issue with about 90 percent of the OEM ST tires. They are cheaply made. People in this thread are talking about tires that cost 68 or 70 dollars to put on a trailer that they paid 20, 30, 40 .... thousand for.

I took our new 2019 Laredo 225MK with Goodride tires and replaced them with Goodyear Endurance tires. The new ST225/75R15E tires cost $641.15 out the door mounted and balanced. Sold the LRD Goodrides on CL for $200 in a day and a half.

When we bought out 2017 Bighorn 3575el in May of 2016 it came with Sailun S637 ST235/85R16G's. In the years before they put Blow Max tires on them and people had many failures.

The problem is that to many trailer manufacturers just buy the deal of the day from Tredit or Tireco. The trailer manufacturer does not have to stand behind the tires, so some manufacturers let their bean counters select the train car loads of pre-mounted wheels and tires based on lowest price available.

If you can by a tire for 68 or 70 at retail, what do you think Tredit or Tireco sells it to the trailer manufacturer for? And that includes the shipment from china, mounting and distribution within North America.

Cal can talk all he wants about reserves and care of ones tires, however if you start with cheap junk, it will still be cheap junk while you are sitting on the side of the highway with the side of your trailer blown off.

So I am happy with my decision to install the new Endurance Goodyear's, knowing that Goodyear after developing this new ST tire is going to stand behind it, and that there is a very high provability that they will pay to repair my trailer if it is damaged by the failure of one of my Endurance tires similar to their support of their LRG G614 tire.

ChrisIf anyone gets Goodyear to pay for their trailer damage because an Endurance goes pop, please post all of the details to the transaction in a new thread. To date, I don't believe this has happened and that it may happen is pure speculation and opinion. Actually having it happen, well....that would change everything.

Now, go outside and play (said in my mother's voice).

Javi

10-14-2018, 06:02 AM

If anyone gets Goodyear to pay for their trailer damage because an Endurance goes pop, please post all of the details to the transaction in a new thread. To date, I don't believe this has happened and that it may happen is pure speculation and opinion. Actually having it happen, well....that would change everything.

Now, go outside and play (said in my mother's voice).

Anyone who actually believes that Goodyear is going to pay for damage to your trailer without litigation is a prime candidate to buy a bridge... :whistling:

JRTJH

10-14-2018, 06:28 AM

Is that Goodyear Tire Company that makes Endurance tires the same Goodyear that makes (yes still being sold) the Goodyear G159 tires that have so many failures on motorhomes? https://jalopnik.com/goodyear-knew-of-dangerous-rv-tire-failures-for-over-20-1824997252 Looks to me like they are being accused of hiding the failure incidents from the public and the NHTSA officials. This article doesn't address any reimbursement for tire failure on motorhomes damaged by the tire blowouts...

Maybe there's a "Different Goodyear" for the Endurance line ?????? Nah, I'd bet it's the same company, different product. If they won't pay for damages on a $650 tire, I suppose there would be as much or more "resistance" to pay for damages on a $125 tire. Of course that's just my opinion, but if anyone has any documentation of Goodyear paying for trailer damages, please post the details....

As for "tire failures while towing from the factory"... If you look at the Keystone (or any other manufacturer) trailer specs, you'll see some trailers with 500 pounds of excess capacity on each tire and you'll see other trailers with 20 pounds of excess capacity on each tire (based on trailer shipping weight/GVW and pin/hitch weight). My guess would be that the majority of the "tire failure during delivery" are on trailers with critically low tire capacity reserves. Yes, it's still a Keystone problem, but is it a "Towmax/Carlisle/Maxxis/Goodyear problem ???? Likely not..... What I'm saying is that you can't blame tire failure on the tire when the manufacturer installs tires that "barely meet the standard".... Hopefully with the new RVIA guidelines that will change.

But as for Goodyear's reimbursement policy...... Like the old lady in the Wendy's ad: "Where's the beef???"

Snoking

10-14-2018, 07:08 AM

Anyone who actually believes that Goodyear is going to pay for damage to your trailer without litigation is a prime candidate to buy a bridge... :whistling:

History has not proven that to be true!

Step 1. The failed tire has to be kept.
Step 2. File a claim via a Goodyear tire dealer or directly with Goodyear.
Step 3. Goodyear tire dealer ships failed tire to Goodyear.
Step 4. Goodyear determines cause of failure.
Step 5. If Goodyear determines cause was not an user issue, they provide a replacement tire.

Step 6:
Now we are at a point that Goodyear is noted to do something that is excluded for just about all tire warranties. The paid for consequential damages from the tire failure. Sometimes they first offer to pay one's insurance deductible. Those that remain calm and firm, have been able to get Goodyear to pay the full amount. Other times Goodyear steps up completely from the get go.

You can believe this or not. There are many documented cases available with a little internet searching.

NOT chinese tire company is going to come within 7252 miles of doing this.

JRTJH

10-14-2018, 08:13 AM

...

Those that remain calm and firm, have been able to get Goodyear to pay the full amount. Other times Goodyear steps up completely from the get go.

You can believe this or not. There are many documented cases available with a little internet searching. ...

Again, I ask, is this the same Goodyear Tire Company that produces G159 motorhome tires and hid the tire failure results from NHTSA until a class action lawsuit forced them to reveal the information to the courts?

Gegrad

10-14-2018, 08:30 AM

Anyone who actually believes that Goodyear is going to pay for damage to your trailer without litigation is a prime candidate to buy a bridge... :whistling:

Yep. I have a brass nickel that is worth $275, I promise if you buy it from me for $75 you will make $200!

ctbruce

10-14-2018, 08:36 AM

History has not proven that to be true!

Step 1. The failed tire has to be kept.
Step 2. File a claim via a Goodyear tire dealer or directly with Goodyear.
Step 3. Goodyear tire dealer ships failed tire to Goodyear.
Step 4. Goodyear determines cause of failure.
Step 5. If Goodyear determines cause was not an user issue, they provide a replacement tire.

Step 6:
Now we are at a point that Goodyear is noted to do something that is excluded for just about all tire warranties. The paid for consequential damages from the tire failure. Sometimes they first offer to pay one's insurance deductible. Those that remain calm and firm, have been able to get Goodyear to pay the full amount. Other times Goodyear steps up completely from the get go.

You can believe this or not. There are many documented cases available with a little internet searching.

NOT chinese tire company is going to come within 7252 miles of doing this.Ok, I was curious so as suggested I Googled this. Only found a couple mentions on a Heartland forum from November of 2014. They did pay for damages on failure from GY614's, but 4 years without other mentions is not exactly awe inspiring. However, you are free to think what you want, but just color me skeptical is all.

CWtheMan

10-14-2018, 09:38 AM

Again, I ask, is this the same Goodyear Tire Company that produces G159 motorhome tires and hid the tire failure results from NHTSA until a class action lawsuit forced them to reveal the information to the courts?

What is most often overlooked is the fact that GY had a very active "silent recall" for a number of years with their new G159 & G614 tires. The deal was, "send me the tires and I'll send you new tires and have your trailer fixed", maybe not in those words but that was the end result.

Over the years they worked the bugs out of the G614 but their work on the G159 failed miserably and at a great expense to them.

When GY thought they had the G614 fixed they sent them to China. OOPS, they weren't really fixed, back to the USA they came. Got fixed and are still on the market. (Maybe they got some help from Michelin on how to build steel cased tires?).

JRTJH

10-14-2018, 10:18 AM

What is most often overlooked is the fact that GY had a very active "silent recall" for a number of years with their new G159 & G614 tires. The deal was, "send me the tires and I'll send you new tires and have your trailer fixed", maybe not in those words but that was the end result.

Over the years they worked the bugs out of the G614 but their work on the G159 failed miserably and at a great expense to them.

When GY thought they had the G614 fixed they sent them to China. OOPS, they weren't really fixed, back to the USA they came. Got fixed and are still on the market. (Maybe they got some help from Michelin on how to build steel cased tires?).

There is another member posting information that "Goodyear will pay to fix your trailer if their Endurance ST tire fails"... My reason for asking if this is the "same Goodyear that produced the G159" is because the allegations are that as late as August 2018 Goodyear still has not "officially recalled the G159 tire"... They are apparently using "unpublished, silent recalls" to keep people quiet and to avoid any admission of "tire problems" on a "tire line scale"....

To me (YMMV) that's not being "honest and above board" when it comes to accepting responsibility for a product failure. My point, the one I was trying to make, is that if Goodyear has refused to accept that they have a problem with the G159 tire in the past 15 years (since they stopped production) and still won't accept responsibility for the accidents that tire caused, why would we believe that same company is going to "volunteer to repair trailers for any owner who buys the Endurance ST tire" ???

I'm not saying that the Endurance ST tire is good or bad, it's simply too early to know how it will perform beyond the 2 years it's been on the market. It may turn out to be an excellent tire, it may turn out to be the "sister to the Marathon (a cheap failure after it was moved to China).... None of us know the outcome yet (unless there's a fortune teller amongst us)....

My point, for the "umpteenth time" is this: Goodyear's track record for paying for repairs to trailers and motorhomes has always been "under the table to keep people quiet"... They have NEVER made a statement such as, "Send us your bad tire and the bill for your trailer repair and we'll send you a check".....

If anyone has evidence that Goodyear has that policy, I'll sincerely apologize, but until then, Goodyear ain't no better than Carlisle or TowMax when it comes to getting "blood out of a turnip".......

CWtheMan

10-14-2018, 10:20 AM

I was talking with my brother, who hauled new RVs out of Goshen to dealers. He said it was commonplace for tires to go bad while delivering.

The most common reason for that sort of failure is under inflation. If the delivery driver just hooks up and delivers, the odds are greatly in favor of early tire failures.

Huge RV trailer manufacturer's like Keystone will get their tire assemblies from OEM providers. Those providers are not responsible for proper tire inflation. The maximum safe inflation pressure for setting the beads is 40 PSI. That's probably the most they will have in them when they get to the Keystone assembly line. When they are delivered to the vehicle they will become Original Equipment on, will thy be inflated to the correct inflation pressure for that fitment? Will that inflation pressure be maintained properly all the way to the delivery driver? Does the delivery driver have a PDI that includes maintaining proper inflation pressures? Is the delivery driver versed in differences between inflation pressures derived from FMCSA and FMVSS regulations? One is not compatible with the other.

That's my side of the story.

CWtheMan

10-14-2018, 10:28 AM

There is another member posting information that "Goodyear will pay to fix your trailer if their Endurance ST tire fails"... My reason for asking if this is the "same Goodyear that produced the G159" is because the allegations are that as late as August 2018 Goodyear still has not "officially recalled the G159 tire"... They are apparently using "unpublished, silent recalls" to keep people quiet and to avoid any admission of "tire problems" on a "tire line scale"....

To me (YMMV) that's not being "honest and above board" when it comes to accepting responsibility for a product failure. My point, the one I was trying to make, is that if Goodyear has refused to accept that they have a problem with the G159 tire in the past 15 years (since they stopped production) and still won't accept responsibility for the accidents that tire caused, why would we believe that same company is going to "volunteer to repair trailers for any owner who buys the Endurance ST tire" ???

I'm not saying that the Endurance ST tire is good or bad, it's simply too early to know how it will perform beyond the 2 years it's been on the market. It may turn out to be an excellent tire, it may turn out to be the "sister to the Marathon (a cheap failure after it was moved to China).... None of us know the outcome yet (unless there's a fortune teller amongst us)....

My point, for the "umpteenth time" is this: Goodyear's track record for paying for repairs to trailers and motorhomes has always been "under the table to keep people quiet"... They have NEVER made a statement such as, "Send us your bad tire and the bill for your trailer repair and we'll send you a check".....

If anyone has evidence that Goodyear has that policy, I'll sincerely apologize, but until then, Goodyear ain't no better than Carlisle or TowMax when it comes to getting "blood out of a turnip"........

I wrote the above under your quote which was in answer to this statement.

Those that remain calm and firm, have been able to get Goodyear to pay the full amount. Other times Goodyear steps up completely from the get go.

You can believe this or not. There are many documented cases available with a little internet searching. (ANCIDOTAL)! …

JRTJH

10-14-2018, 10:41 AM

I consider myself "fairly well versed" in internet searches and I have not been able to locate any evidence that Goodyear has paid for damages on any of their ST tire lines in the past 3 years. Do you have any specific links to that information? I've not been able to find the "easy to find info" using any of my search techniques.

I don't "live on the sunrise side of the mountain" when it comes to dealing with tire companies. So, I just wrote Goodyear a question on their "Contact Us" link. I simply asked them, "What is your company policy regarding payment for damages to travel trailers that are caused by failure of your ST tire lines? I'd like to know whether you'll pay for any damages if I buy your Endurance or Marathon tire and have any damage caused by a failure of your product."

I'll post the answer as soon as Goodyear responds to my question.... I'm not holding my breath anticipating a positive response, but we'll see......

Snoking

10-14-2018, 11:02 AM

Has anyone yet heard of a GY Endurance failure? Along that vein I have only read of one case of a Sailun S637 failing. Carlisle thought they had it figured out and you still read about they newer/newest tires failing.

The term blowout is over used also. Many G614's threw their cap and continued to hold air pressure.

Snoking

10-14-2018, 11:05 AM

Does the delivery driver have a PDI that includes maintaining proper inflation pressures?

If he wants to make a living at it verse sitting on the side of the road, then he checks air pressure before leaving the manufacturers yard. Chris

Javi

10-14-2018, 11:23 AM

Well sucks... I was all ready to buy me four brand new Goodyear Endurance ST235/80R*16E tires next week to replace my three Carlisle ST235/80R-16E that are two years old and move the one Endurance I have to the spare... Ain't gonna happen now..:facepalm:

Went over to the trailer today to pack the wheel bearings and do a little cleanup around it in anticipation of our camping season kickoff trip in a few weeks... First thing I see is an obvious dip in the sidewall of the ten month old tire... So I pull that wheel first and look the other side of the tire... yep that side is even bigger... So I do my thing with the bearings and go to the next tire which is a two year old Carlisle... well all three of them are good, not a sign of a busted cord.. And yes I know that indentations aren't supposed to be a problem... but I don't like it when I see it in one tire.. and not any of the others..

I don't remember hitting anything but I'm old... So this isn't conclusive proof that the Endurance is a bad tire... but it's enough for me to go back to the Carlisle HD for now.. which is a bummer as Discount tire no longer stocks the Carlisle in favor of the Endurance.. :banghead: Which is how I ended up with one Endurance in the first place..

notanlines

10-14-2018, 12:06 PM

“I'll post the answer as soon as Goodyear responds to my question..“
C’mon Goodyear! My face is purple!

guitarboy52

10-14-2018, 03:18 PM

Heading to Florida in a couple weeks, buying a set of Carlisle's this week. Also going to have steel valve stems installed and adding a Tire Pressure Monitoring System. The Trailer Kings might be a decent tire, but you never know how they were handled before you got your trailer. We picked up our trailer in June and have made 3 fairly local trips. Proper air pressure and speed play major roll but factory tires may have been mistreated before you ever saw your trailer.

Snoking

10-14-2018, 04:23 PM

Proper air pressure and speed play major roll but factory tires may have been mistreated before you ever saw your trailer.

Before the recent newer ST tires showed on the market, I use to say "ST tires are for delivery and display only!"

mcomeaux

10-14-2018, 04:34 PM

Just replace every three years and have no fear.....

flybouy

10-14-2018, 06:05 PM

Hello, this is your trailer tire hotline. If you are answering if, or when to replace your tires..Press
1 for Before you drive it off the lot.
2 for Not until they wear out or blow up, destroying everything in a 5 block radius.
3 for Use LT not ST tires you fool!
4 for What's a ST tire?
5 for I'm still waiting to find out the truth but haven't got past the "Truth about the Kennedy Assassination" websites, and 10,000 things doctors don't want you to know sites that show up when I search "Truth".
6 to Return to the beginning of the menu.

Snoking

10-14-2018, 06:41 PM

Just replace every three years and have no fear.....

S637's will last longer than three years. How many miles to you go between oil changes?

CWtheMan

10-15-2018, 06:52 PM

S637's will last longer than three years.

And that's probably because the tensile strength of the steel cords in the S637 will resist heat damage better than the polyester cords in most of the other brands.

JRTJH

10-16-2018, 06:11 PM

...I'll post the answer as soon as Goodyear responds to my question.... I'm not holding my breath anticipating a positive response, but we'll see......

Here is the "official response from Goodyear"

goodyear_cr [email protected]
To jrtjh@*****

All Goodyear tires come with a six year limited warranty. During the first 12 months or 2/32" of tread wear, whichever comes first, tires removed from service due to a covered warranty condition will be replaced with a comparable Goodyear product free of charge, mounting and balancing are included.

Tires not eligible for free replacement that are removed from service due to a covered warranty condition will be replaced with a comparable new Goodyear tire on a prorated basis for up to six (6) years from the date of purchase. (Without proof of purchase the date of manufacture will be used to determine eligibility.)

If damages are caused due to a tire failure, a damage claim will be initiated to determine cause or condition. Then our Property Damage Claims Team will determine if the cost of repairs will be reimbursed
Vanassa
Consumer Relations

That process is, to my understanding, the same process used by all tire manufacturers, even TowMax.

Snoking

10-16-2018, 07:14 PM

JRTJH

10-16-2018, 07:19 PM

Snoking

10-16-2018, 07:22 PM

There are several posts on this forum detailing how TowMax paid for damages to a member's trailer. You can find those posts (about 4 years old) by using the search feature located in the black bar at the top of every forum webpage.

So why did you question that GY would do this if you knew that others do it ? How about a link, I can not find them.

sourdough

10-16-2018, 08:19 PM

Sounds pretty close to what I said.?

How many other tire manufacturers have you ever heard or read of any other tire company beyond GY paying for consequential damages?

Only one I have heard of is BFG/Michelin. Please post a link to others that have. Chris

For what it is worth, anyone that worries about a tire manufacturers "warranty" paying for any damages done due to a "faulty" tire, which they (the company) will determine, or for the tire itself, is wasting their time and naive. I've not ever seen it happen but others may have. As far as GY, I used to use them exclusively for most everything; they aren't the company they used to be nor their products and I wouldn't trust them to pay anything for damages...there's always a copout. JMO

sourdough

10-16-2018, 08:23 PM

So why did you question that GY would do this if you knew that others do it ? How about a link, I can not find them.

I think John is running on memory and I think I recall the same thing. You may need to rearrange your search criteria to find the items mentioned. We would have to do the same thing to do it for you.:flowers:

Snoking

10-16-2018, 08:45 PM

In the case they replace or paid for tires.
https://heartlandowners.org/archive/index.php/t-47483.html

Towmax warranty:
TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED
BY THE LAWS OF YOUR STATE, THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER AND EXPRESSLY
EXCLUDES ANY COVERAGE FOR PERSONAL INJURY, PROPERTY DAMAGE, LOSS OF
TIME, INCONVENIENCE, LOSS OF USE OF YOUR VEHICLE OR TIRE, OR ANY OTHER
INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES.

Link to warranty
https://www.tirerack.com/images/pdf/warranty/PK0112.pdf

If someone got damages paid for they most likely lived in a state the does does not allow INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES exclusions in warranties.

ctbruce

10-17-2018, 03:38 AM

This is getting old. No one knows. Everyone is speculating at best.

Until the Sh** hits the fan and someone files a claim with GY, there is no way to know. Their words, "IF" determined by them and their team, gives a little hope, but their sole job in life is to figure out how you screwed up and allowed their tire to fail and how it was not their fault.

If you want GY Endurance, by all means buy them. But don't speculate on what hasn't happened yet as if it will. If you want Carlisle, Maxxis, Sailun or God forbid, TowM...something, then get them and be happy. It's all good. And leave it at that.

Your tires have very little to do with how big or smart or great a guy or gal you are. They simply are a tool to get us all to our intended goal of going camping. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less.

God, this is going to be a long winter of cabin fever.