Keystone warranty NO joke!

[foldbak]

Well here we are again. I've had my new 27SABWE for 7 months and I'm starting to seriously regret making this purchase. We've had numerous issues with this trailer and had to fight to get them addressed. To many to list. The latest is leaking windows. I discovered 2 windows had water in the frames after a storm. Took it to Folsom Lake RV for warranty. The pressure tested my trailer to find 7 windows leaking. Keystone is denying the warranty. :confused:



Is there such thing as a lemon law for trailers?

[XTeacher]

I feel your pain. Yes, Keystone will often fight you tooth and nail to cover what is in their "warranty".

[chuckster57]

Often times claims are denied because its, the manner in which the dealer submits the claim. What exactly was the "PRESSURE TEST" they used and how did they document the results? If the windows leaked because of a bad seal around the frame, they didn't need to do that test and proper documentation would have most likely gotten the issue fixed. Im not here to defend Keystone, but I have worked long enough to see EVERY manufacturer tighten up on claims due to a high number of fraudulant claims.

It is sad that some legitimate claims get rejected, but with proper documentation and photos they can get approved. Its not an easy task in some cases, we have had a unit sit for 4 months as we "argue" back and forth, take more measurements, pictures and such. In the end we usually win.

I wouldnt be so quick to slam Keystone until you konw EVERYTHING about your claim, including the reason for denial.

[sourdough]

Right now it sounds like you are in the "passenger" seat being an observer. Don't. You need to be the "driver", or at least the "copilot".

On our trailer I had 2 claims denied - obvious warranty issues. I provided details, pics and a written summary of what happened to a service writer. What they submitted to Keystone wasn't anything like what had been presented to them. I obtained the report they submitted and Keystone told me what had been given to them. I got the GM/SM of the dealership to intervene and handle the situation.....they were both approved and resolved.

In this case it sounds like you need to know a lot more other than it was denied. What exactly was the leak? Why were they pressure tested? How were they pressure tested? Was that at Keystone's direction? The questions that you need to ask are long. If you haven't involved the senior managers/owners of the dealership, you need to.

When an issue is one of neglect, out of warranty, a maintenance item; I understand a rejection. When something is obviously a warranty issue it needs to be covered - and all of mine were (many), but some took a great deal of effort to get done and I generally found it was a failure at the dealership level that caused that - running every problem thru the SM resolved that. Good luck to you.

[Canonman]

I agree with Danny and Chuckster. Yes, it's all about how well the dealer's service folks documented the claim. But, it's also about the relationship the service dept. has with Keystone. As Danny says you have every right to get involved. Escalate to the GM at Folsom Lake. Have the GM give you the Keystone reps name and let him know what's going on. We are all used to (familiar with) how our other vehicle warranty issues are dealt with. The RV world is different. And, unfortunately, here in Utah there is no lemon law on RV's.:facepalm:
One thing I had to keep reminding myself as we went through this same agonizing process: "You get more bees with honey".
We got everything fixed and have had two seasons now with no further issues.
Hopefully your situation turns out the same.

[Barbell]

It seems that the manufacturers are using the same trick the insurance companies have used for years; deny every claim on the first go-around. Many will give up and never re-submit the claim, thereby saving the company dollars, which is their primary goal. Keep submitting the claim and if necessary, get a lawyer. Most of theses companies are too cheap to hire good legal help and they will fold once they come up against a good one.

[chuckster57]

It seems that the manufacturers are using the same trick the insurance companies have used for years; deny every claim on the first go-around. Many will give up and never re-submit the claim, thereby saving the company dollars, which is their primary goal. Keep submitting the claim and if necessary, get a lawyer. Most of theses companies are too cheap to hire good legal help and they will fold once they come up against a good one.
Deny everything first go-around is not true at all. I will say there has been a few cases that took Additional “paperwork” but as I stated before, proper testing, documentation, photos and wording are key.

As far as getting an attorney, sure it’s your right, and once you get one, be ready for the dealer and Keystone to STOP any further efforts to resolve the issue until it goes to court....how ever long that may be.

[sourdough]

"Most of theses companies are too cheap to hire good legal help and they will fold once they come up against a good one."


I don't think the above will be the case. Large companies, and Thor is large, have their own dedicated legal teams - all the ones I've worked for did. They don't "fold" because one owner challenges them in court. The owner, unless he has done an extreme amount of due diligence, and prepared in ways most owners won't/can't, won't come out on the winning end. What they will do is assure that whatever they were needing fixed is permanently denied and...….spend a lot of money out of their pockets. I would exhaust every means possible before pursuing legal action and then, only then, if the amount of requested repairs exceeded several thousand dollars....because that is what you will be out if you lose.

[JRTJH]

Let's look at what the OP provided us (which apparently is only one side of a "sketchy" story)......

"I discovered 2 windows had water in the frames after a storm. Took it to Folsom Lake RV for warranty. The pressure tested my trailer to find 7 windows leaking. Keystone is denying the warranty."

There is no indication of "HOW" the windows are leaking. Is it at the butyl seal behind the flange, at the frame, around the glass insert or another location? Now, his trailer has 9 windows. The two in the ends of the slide are the same style. The two at the ends of the rear of the trailer are the same style, all (emphasis on ALL) the remaining windows are different styles, different opening patterns, different shapes. So, there are 7 different shapes/styles of windows in the trailer.

What are the odds of 7 windows, all different shapes and opening patterns, all being defective and needing replacement? Not needing resealing or reseating, but replacement? I'd suspect that when Keystone got that request for warranty replacement, they also thought, "How the heck is this even possible?".... With the typical, sketchy warranty justification done by most dealerships, I'd suspect that there's no way on God's green earth" that Keystone (or any other manufacturer) is going to ship 7 replacement windows, all of which are different shapes to a dealer because all are "defective from the window manufacturer".... That just doesn't happen with windows from different lines, different shapes, different styles of opening, and possibly from different factories....

If I were at Keystone, the first thing I'd do with that claim is say, "No, I'm not shipping 7 windows to you, claim denied. Resubmit and tell me what is leaking and why the windows need replaced."

I can see a very remote possibility that there was a bad batch of putty tape, even a bad installation on one or maybe two windows, but 7 of 9?

So, while I feel the OP's frustration, I'd strongly suspect there's something very, VERY fishy at that dealer's service department. The odds of 7 windows, all different styles, all leaking, all on the same trailer, when there's not numerous reports of other trailers having the same problem? (trust me, if it was a "Keystone wide issue" this forum would be overflowing with complaints).....

If it was my trailer, I'd be at the dealership, talking to the general manager and the service manager (not the service writer) asking how is this even possible??????

[Eastham]

We have a 2016 cougar .It has had a few issues during the warrantee period
#1 was the front spot lights were not sealed and the gasket was turning black.
# 2 the led lights on t he awning had 4 bulbs burned out
#3 The awning motor would not retract the awning.
#4 fractured elbow at the water inlet.
ALL of these were covered under warranty no hassle from the dealer or keystone.they also fixed some minor issue on both screen doors .and after we contacted keystone ourself they shipped the missing sink covers.this was Diamond RV in Hadley ma. We have absolutely no complaints with them or keystone.we were 180 miles away from the dealer and they came out and replaced the awning light strip about 20 ft long on site.i am sure everyone is not this lucky but that's how it worked for us.no complaints at all. YET.

[foldbak]

I appreciate everyone's response and advice. I was a heavy equipment service manager and I completely how the system works. The fact is the claim is only as good as the service manager. However I also know that the manufacturer warranty department is trained to minimize payout to maximize profit. Biz 101!


FACT:



Standing water in two window channels after a heavy rain
Warranty was submitted to dealer with pictures
Dealer pressure tested the trailer with a Seal Tech positive pressure device. Soap solution is sprayed around every opening.
7 windows failed around the window FACTORY seal. Indicating a bad run of windows or improper installation.

Warranty denied? Wrong answer from Keystone as far as I'm concerned. I purchased this NEW trailer because my old trailer leaked and had severe water damage. So far I'm not impressed with the build quality or warranty. I posted another thread here with my first set of warranty issues. That was a battle in it's self.



At the end of the day the problem starts at the manufacture. If the quality control was better and the assembly process was controlled we wouldn't be here.

[Hodgy]

.

I do not have the problems you have but on my 1800RB the build quality leaves a lot to be desired. Mostly design and finishing problems. They spend the money on supplies/parts, pay someone to do the work and then as the finish line approaches they fail.

I have fixed the fresh water tank drain. I will be re-routing the PEX water lines in the bathroom cabinet to get them out of the way. Next job is to use some iron-on wood trim on the footboard of the murphy bed. They just left the raw cut-off particle board showing. You can see it when the bed is down. Two, 3/4" x 3" strips would have fixed the situation.

I worked with a guy 30 years ago and his favourite saying was, "Never time to do it right, always time to do it again."

.

[travelin texans]

[QUOTE
I worked with a guy 30 years ago and his favourite saying was, "Never time to do it right, always time to do it again."
.[/QUOTE]

That's what I was taught also!
The flaw with it in regards to the factory folks is they will NEVER be the ones to do it again, throw it together, get it out the door & done.

[Hodgy]

[QUOTE
I worked with a guy 30 years ago and his favourite saying was, "Never time to do it right, always time to do it again."
.

That's what I was taught also!
The flaw with it in regards to the factory folks is they will NEVER be the ones to do it again, throw it together, get it out the door & done.[/QUOTE]


Yup, very sad !

.

[JRTJH]

...
FACT:



Standing water in two window channels after a heavy rain
Warranty was submitted to dealer with pictures
Dealer pressure tested the trailer with a Seal Tech positive pressure device. Soap solution is sprayed around every opening.
7 windows failed around the window FACTORY seal. Indicating a bad run of windows or improper installation.

Warranty denied? Wrong answer from Keystone as far as I'm concerned. I purchased this NEW trailer because my old trailer leaked and had severe water damage. So far I'm not impressed with the build quality or warranty. I posted another thread here with my first set of warranty issues. That was a battle in it's self.



At the end of the day the problem starts at the manufacture. If the quality control was better and the assembly process was controlled we wouldn't be here.

You still haven't established if it is the window manufacturer or the trailer manufacturer that has the "bad product".... It should not be up to you, but up to the service manager to make that determination and report it properly to Keystone where they will, make the determination whether to refer the problem to the window manufacturer (if it is a window issue) or accept the problem (if it is an installation issue).

There are two weep holes in the frame of every window. ALL of them will bubble when soapy water is sprayed over the frame with the interior of the trailer pressurized. That is "normal function" and is not a leaking window. So, until your service manager establishes that there is, in fact, a window manufacturer quality problem or a Keystone "window installation" problem, I would not expect Keystone to do anything other than say, "claim denied, submit specific problem with documentation". So far, all your service manager has done is say the window leaks. He has not, by your statement, established if it is a leaking window or a leaking window installation. Until then, don't expect resolution from Keystone...

I'd suspect that you're being jerked around by the dealership. They have the expertise (or should have) to determine exactly what is leaking and repair it, document it appropriately to be reimbursed by the manufacturer and resolve the problem.

If what you have posted is the "whole story" your dealership is letting you down.

[chuckster57]

You still haven't established if it is the window manufacturer or the trailer manufacturer that has the "bad product".... It should not be up to you, but up to the service manager to make that determination and report it properly to Keystone where they will, make the determination whether to refer the problem to the window manufacturer (if it is a window issue) or accept the problem (if it is an installation issue).

There are two weep holes in the frame of every window. ALL of them will bubble when soapy water is sprayed over the frame with the interior of the trailer pressurized. That is "normal function" and is not a leaking window. So, until your service manager establishes that there is, in fact, a window manufacturer quality problem or a Keystone "window installation" problem, I would not expect Keystone to do anything other than say, "claim denied, submit specific problem with documentation". So far, all your service manager has done is say the window leaks. He has not, by your statement, established if it is a leaking window or a leaking window installation. Until then, don't expect resolution from Keystone...

I'd suspect that you're being jerked around by the dealership. They have the expertise (or should have) to determine exactly what is leaking and repair it, document it appropriately to be reimbursed by the manufacturer and resolve the problem.

If what you have posted is the "whole story" your dealership is letting you down.
I agree with John.

[K_N_L]

Technical problems / issues aside, document every call you make and keep notes of dates, names and what was said. As in every large company there are those who can get things done and those who just pass tickets / calls on to the next person. I've spoke with both Keystone, my dealer and their service reps, and a few equipment manufacturers more than than I care to mention in my first year with this camper. But having just got my dead reefer repaired @ n/c while it died on Friday the 13th, one day before the warranty expired both the manufacturer and Keystone the dealer did take care of the problem(s). I hope you have success in getting the issues addressed but I concur with you that the QC management needs to be overhauled.

[sourdough]

I appreciate everyone's response and advice. I was a heavy equipment service manager and I completely how the system works. The fact is the claim is only as good as the service manager. However I also know that the manufacturer warranty department is trained to minimize payout to maximize profit. Biz 101!


FACT:



Standing water in two window channels after a heavy rain
Warranty was submitted to dealer with pictures
Dealer pressure tested the trailer with a Seal Tech positive pressure device. Soap solution is sprayed around every opening.
7 windows failed around the window FACTORY seal. Indicating a bad run of windows or improper installation.

Warranty denied? Wrong answer from Keystone as far as I'm concerned. I purchased this NEW trailer because my old trailer leaked and had severe water damage. So far I'm not impressed with the build quality or warranty. I posted another thread here with my first set of warranty issues. That was a battle in it's self.



At the end of the day the problem starts at the manufacture. If the quality control was better and the assembly process was controlled we wouldn't be here.


What you have told me here, after so many experiences of my own, is that you have a dealer that is incapable of 1) diagnosing your problem in a logical way and 2) an inability to communicate what is required for a warranty approval to Keysstone. To have 7, 5, 3, 2 windows failed on 1 trailer...I doubt it highly....that is on the dealer, and the reason Keystone is saying...whaaaaat? No way.

If you think they have made the proper assessment, you might ask on this forum, of Keystone owners, how many have had 7, 5, 3 (or less) windows assessed as having internal leaks....good luck. Get on the dealer.

[foldbak]

Yes 7 windows failed the pressure test. I forced the issue and a factory rep met with the service department and performed the test. Fail install. Warranty approved.

[sourdough]

Wow! Great news! I hope the factory rep, or someone at Keystone, is trying to figure out what in the world happened. To have that happen is extremely unusual....I hope.

[bill-e]

foldback, congrats!

When you say "Factory Rep" are you referring to Keystone or the Window Manufacturer?

[foldbak]

Update. It's been almost a year since we bought the trailer.


I took it out last month after it sitting in the Sacramento heat for months. During prep we found that every wallpaper seam and molding was coming loose. We stored it with the shades down. When raising the shades all of the large shades wouldn't open because the pleats stated folding the opposite direction. While washing the trailer I discovered the rubber roof bubbling near the antenna and both door windows leaked. The awning wouldn't close all the way without pushing the front arm. The LPG tanks were empty due to leaking hoses at the tanks. Both of them at the crimp leaked.


Now were still waiting for the 7 leaking windows to to arrive for replacement. I took it back to the dealer. "Hi Mr. Baumgartner" I told them about all of the issues and they agreed to address them. They called with an update this week. Most of the items have been addressed. However the bubbling on the roof (which they thought was normal gassing) is a major problem. Keystone hasn't given them direction on how to fix it yet......The service manager says this roof cant be lifted and glued as it would destroy the plywood sub surface. So she's not sure whats going to happen.


REALLY?? The roof?? The whole reason for the replacement was water damage on my last trailer. I told her remove the generator and inverter and install them in a new trailer.......one that wasn't built in Oregon.....like that will happen...

[kayakjim]

Let's look at what the OP provided us (which apparently is only one side of a "sketchy" story)......

"I discovered 2 windows had water in the frames after a storm. Took it to Folsom Lake RV for warranty. The pressure tested my trailer to find 7 windows leaking. Keystone is denying the warranty."

There is no indication of "HOW" the windows are leaking. Is it at the butyl seal behind the flange, at the frame, around the glass insert or another location? Now, his trailer has 9 windows. The two in the ends of the slide are the same style. The two at the ends of the rear of the trailer are the same style, all (emphasis on ALL) the remaining windows are different styles, different opening patterns, different shapes. So, there are 7 different shapes/styles of windows in the trailer.

What are the odds of 7 windows, all different shapes and opening patterns, all being defective and needing replacement? Not needing resealing or reseating, but replacement? I'd suspect that when Keystone got that request for warranty replacement, they also thought, "How the heck is this even possible?".... With the typical, sketchy warranty justification done by most dealerships, I'd suspect that there's no way on God's green earth" that Keystone (or any other manufacturer) is going to ship 7 replacement windows, all of which are different shapes to a dealer because all are "defective from the window manufacturer".... That just doesn't happen with windows from different lines, different shapes, different styles of opening, and possibly from different factories....

If I were at Keystone, the first thing I'd do with that claim is say, "No, I'm not shipping 7 windows to you, claim denied. Resubmit and tell me what is leaking and why the windows need replaced."

I can see a very remote possibility that there was a bad batch of putty tape, even a bad installation on one or maybe two windows, but 7 of 9?

So, while I feel the OP's frustration, I'd strongly suspect there's something very, VERY fishy at that dealer's service department. The odds of 7 windows, all different styles, all leaking, all on the same trailer, when there's not numerous reports of other trailers having the same problem? (trust me, if it was a "Keystone wide issue" this forum would be overflowing with complaints).....

If it was my trailer, I'd be at the dealership, talking to the general manager and the service manager (not the service writer) asking how is this even possible??????

Just picked up a 2019 Cougar from Folsom Lake RV. Had a problem right off the lot. Take a video with your phone of what they are doing or not doing and then follow your claim through. Ask lots of questions. I was not impressed with the service department at Folsom Lake RV at all. Basically had to stand there reading instructions to them. They cared (... and I appreciated that)just no clue on how to fix the problem.

[goducks]

Update. It's been almost a year since we bought the trailer.


I took it out last month after it sitting in the Sacramento heat for months. During prep we found that every wallpaper seam and molding was coming loose. We stored it with the shades down. When raising the shades all of the large shades wouldn't open because the pleats stated folding the opposite direction. While washing the trailer I discovered the rubber roof bubbling near the antenna and both door windows leaked. The awning wouldn't close all the way without pushing the front arm. The LPG tanks were empty due to leaking hoses at the tanks. Both of them at the crimp leaked.


Now were still waiting for the 7 leaking windows to to arrive for replacement. I took it back to the dealer. "Hi Mr. Baumgartner" I told them about all of the issues and they agreed to address them. They called with an update this week. Most of the items have been addressed. However the bubbling on the roof (which they thought was normal gassing) is a major problem. Keystone hasn't given them direction on how to fix it yet......The service manager says this roof cant be lifted and glued as it would destroy the plywood sub surface. So she's not sure whats going to happen.


REALLY?? The roof?? The whole reason for the replacement was water damage on my last trailer. I told her remove the generator and inverter and install them in a new trailer.......one that wasn't built in Oregon.....like that will happen...

Worst thing to do is let the trailer sit in the hot sun for months all closed up. You should've put a cover on it and opened the ceiling vents.

[C.LeeNick]

I'm sorry to hear others having issues with warranty service..makes me wonder if I didn't make a mistake in my purchase. Hopefully it all pans out for all of us in the end. (Honestly, a couple long term RV'ing buddies of mine suggested I buy late model used and just get used to fixing things myself. Considering I've been doing that with our old RV for over a decade, I now wonder if that just isn't less stressful overall than dealing with a dealership to try and get issues fixed....I'll probably take my buddies advice next time.)

I don't know if this will, in the long term, be borne out by the facts, but it SEEMS to me that having good communication with the manufacturer helps. The people on the phone may be trained to simply say "Yes sir", "No sir", and get you off the phone, but when I've had issues, and didn't feel like the dealership was giving them the importance they deserved, I've called Keystone. Long story short: The TECH at the dealership appears to be pretty savvy, but the service MANAGER is the most wishy-washy non-committal guy you will ever meet. He doesn't make you feel that your problem is really of any importance to him. He's "overworked, understaffed, has too much to do, yada yada yada". He's nice enough about it, but looking at the stacks of broken parts around his office waiting to be addressed, and all the RV's around the service bays, my impression of him is that his general procedure is to simply kick the can down the road for as long as he can before the work finally gets done.

Because of that, I've spoken to several different people at Keystone now, and I can state that they do listen and document issues. I've had the current person I've been speaking to on the phone run down nearly exactly what's been discussed in previous calls, so they seem to keep good notes in their computer, all connected to my trailer's VIN number. My main concern with the manufacturing so far was with the shelves that broke in my back closet...a totally avoidable design flaw that will cause every single one of them in every single trailer like mine to fail in the exact same way. I thought it would be good for Keystone to know that so they could make a change/improvement. Will they? Who knows. But considering mine broke the way they did within the first 100-200 miles of paved road travel, they'd better do something about it. The dealership eventually fixed them with some extra metal brackets, and they lasted through my last trip..which included a few miles of dirt road.

As I documented in another thread, I got pretty hot under the collar on another issue.
The dealership driving from 1 to 7 self-tapping screws into the electrical wiring while installing the enclosed underbelly that should have been installed at the factory. That seems like anywhere from a rookie mistake to total incompetence to me, and frankly, I don't trust the dealership to not "cut and splice and patch" when what really needs to happen is a complete replacement of that electrical line, conduit and all. That's what I'm demanding, anyway. The trailer is new, and it needs to be returned to new. The tech seemed to think it was a "20-30 minute repair". I'm not saying it ain't so..but if he can do it in that time frame he's a magician and worth twice whatever he's getting paid.

Because of the nature of the issue, and the safety issues concerning electricity, I called Keystone again. Primarily because I wanted everything documented with them. After feeling satisfied with communication with Keystone over several previous calls, I finally got a woman on the phone at Keystone who didn't appear to care about the issue. She said I was basically on my own in dealing the dealership. That angered me greatly, and I finally said "Look, I've owned the trailer for 3 months, and it's been at the dealership for ONE of those months. It was supposed to come from the factory with the underbelly. It's YOUR product. YOU forgot to install the underbelly. And YOUR dealership screwed up the installation. Apparently YOU should have had one of YOUR factory techs oversee the installation. YOU need to step in and help take care of it." Apparently, she detected my suddenly fairly stern tone, because she got another fellow on the phone right away who apparently had a bit more authority, because by the time I got off the phone with him, I was comfortable with giving the current dealership the chance to fix their mistake, AND got the commitment that if I wasn't happy with the workmanship, I could take it to the next closest dealer, about 40 miles away, for them to fix, and Keystone would handle everything with both dealerships. The fellow also sent me his email address and wants me to send him photos of the issues so they are documented. It remains to be seen how this is going to play out in the long run. I'm pretty sure the dealership is getting tired of dealing with me. But this problem is entirely on them.

All I can say to the original poster, along with everyone else who might be having issues, be nice and conversational at first and try to let everything work itself out. Anyone can make mistakes. But stand your ground, and if it drags out, it's time to put your foot down and escalate the issue.

My impression with Keystone is of course they should build a good product first and not make big stupid mistakes, but as one of their videos states "They're human". I've even referenced their own video in my conversations with them so they understand I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to make things right, per what their media on their website suggests. It's hard for them to argue with their own sales media. Their customer service TRIES, but they can only do so much from 1500 miles away. My issues appear to stem directly from the dealership. I'm not impressed with the dealership currently. But that could change.

[Tufelhunden]

Often times claims are denied because its, the manner in which the dealer submits the claim. What exactly was the "PRESSURE TEST" they used and how did they document the results? If the windows leaked because of a bad seal around the frame, they didn't need to do that test and proper documentation would have most likely gotten the issue fixed. Im not here to defend Keystone, but I have worked long enough to see EVERY manufacturer tighten up on claims due to a high number of fraudulant claims.

It is sad that some legitimate claims get rejected, but with proper documentation and photos they can get approved. Its not an easy task in some cases, we have had a unit sit for 4 months as we "argue" back and forth, take more measurements, pictures and such. In the end we usually win.

I wouldnt be so quick to slam Keystone until you konw EVERYTHING about your claim, including the reason for denial.

The fact it took 4 months to fix the issue(s) is the problem. That is completely unacceptable. I can't wait to see how mine goes. Shower leaks out of the left and right corners with the plastic separating from the wall. I'm sitting here in the rain and found water puddling near the wall by the back door with no notable damp area leading to it. The rig is missing several trim pieces, and a screen on several windows. Back shade is broken and has been since day one. Ground control system will not auto retract, worked twice then broke. TV won't play sound with multiple blu ray players. The AC return and intake weren't seperated so the AC is just circulating cool air. It's like this thing was put together by the blind or dumb. This should be fun.

[66joej]

The fact it took 4 months to fix the issue(s) is the problem. That is completely unacceptable. I can't wait to see how mine goes. Shower leaks out of the left and right corners with the plastic separating from the wall. I'm sitting here in the rain and found water puddling near the wall by the back door with no notable damp area leading to it. The rig is missing several trim pieces, and a screen on several windows. Back shade is broken and has been since day one. Ground control system will not auto retract, worked twice then broke. TV won't play sound with multiple blu ray players. The AC return and intake weren't seperated so the AC is just circulating cool air. It's like this thing was put together by the blind or dumb. This should be fun.

It seems this type of post is getting more and more frequent. Is the quality of RVs going downhill this fast? How can the manufacturers get a handle on such shoddy workmanship? If this was in the automotive industry the maker would be in dire straits to keep customers buying substandard junk. JMHO

[bob91yj]

^^^^Remember the Yugo? That's about the quality that seems to come with RV's these days.

[C.LeeNick]

I think the major problem is that Keystone cannot keep a handle on their dealers, who do not follow any standards when it comes to warranty service and repair.

Perhaps Keystone should be a bit more selective of who sells their product, so that only those capable of doing good service work remain.

Of course, that would cut into sales. And Keystones major focus is selling new RVs.

[Tufelhunden]

It seems this type of post is getting more and more frequent. Is the quality of RVs going downhill this fast? How can the manufacturers get a handle on such shoddy workmanship? If this was in the automotive industry the maker would be in dire straits to keep customers buying substandard junk. JMHO

I'm wondering if the water is coming from the window. It has about a half inch gap in the moulding around the window. Both sides have the gap but only one is getting sprinkled on and its leaking. This is an Idaho desert rain so if we are lucky we will get 1/2 an inch over 24 hours.

I think the gent above me is correct and yugo quality is the issue.

[chuckster57]

I think the major problem is that Keystone cannot keep a handle on their dealers, who do not follow any standards when it comes to warranty service and repair.

Perhaps Keystone should be a bit more selective of who sells their product, so that only those capable of doing good service work remain.

Of course, that would cut into sales. And Keystones major focus is selling new RVs.



Factory doesn’t pick the dealer. Dealers pick the line they want to sell. As long as it doesn’t infringe on another dealers “territory” I see quality issues across the board from 15,000 entry level to 400,000.00 motorhomes. Factories can’t keep up with demand. I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again. It’s all about how the dealer addresses the issues that they can BEFORE delivery.

With that the other issue is finding/keeping qualified competent techs. These darn things are getting more complicated by the week and we don’t get any notice of changes. Factories change the warranty process and just deny to deny. The dealer can’t just “eat the cost” and expect to stay in business. Warranty labor rates and time allotted is set by the factory NOT the dealer. Can’t keep going over and expect to stay in business. I could go on but I’m home for the evening and I want to relax. I’d be more than happy to discuss this more with anybody via PM.

[sourdough]

Factory doesn’t pick the dealer. Dealers pick the line they want to sell. As long as it doesn’t infringe on another dealers “territory” I see quality issues across the board from 15,000 entry level to 400,000.00 motorhomes. Factories can’t keep up with demand. I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again. It’s all about how the dealer addresses the issues that they can BEFORE delivery.

With that the other issue is finding/keeping qualified competent techs. These darn things are getting more complicated by the week and we don’t get any notice of changes. Factories change the warranty process and just deny to deny. The dealer can’t just “eat the cost” and expect to stay in business. Warranty labor rates and time allotted is set by the factory NOT the dealer. Can’t keep going over and expect to stay in business. I could go on but I’m home for the evening and I want to relax. I’d be more than happy to discuss this more with anybody via PM.

Chuck,

I hope no one needs to discuss further; hopefully they understand the business paradigm and the drive to "make a dollar". So many confuse the RV process with the auto "process" and...they ain't the same. THE KEY is the dealership. One has to ascertain the competence level of the dealership (honesty, responsibility, etc.) before they make the purchase. If their due diligence failed they MUST take the dealership to task in a methodical, forceful way to achieve the desired results. "Hoping" and "asking" won't get the job done in many instances.

Relax, kick back and just peruse the posts; you're off and relaxing. Thanks for the input.

[travelin texans]

The other problem with every manufacturer is the manpower shortage in the factory areas, the requirement is they can walk in/ breathe on their own & make their mark on the contract, most are not the sharpest pencils in the drawer.

[JRTJH]

The other problem with every manufacturer is the manpower shortage in the factory areas, the requirement is they can walk in/ breathe on their own & make their mark on the contract, most are not the sharpest pencils in the drawer.

Here's yet another "angle on the problem".....

Even if they were "the sharpest pencil in the drawer" and a "craftsman perfectionist", if the boss tells them to speed up production, ignore predrilling holes, don't measure precisely but use the pre-cut trim and staple it in place.... You get the picture: Even the most "perfect among us" if they are getting paid to do a job, have to follow the boss's instructions (or they won't be working long).

That's not to say there aren't some "dull pencils" around, but you can't blame all of Keystone's problems on the production workers.....

[sourdough]

Here's yet another "angle on the problem".....

Even if they were "the sharpest pencil in the drawer" and a "craftsman perfectionist", if the boss tells them to speed up production, ignore predrilling holes, don't measure precisely but use the pre-cut trim and staple it in place.... You get the picture: Even the most "perfect among us" if they are getting paid to do a job, have to follow the boss's instructions (or they won't be working long).

That's not to say there aren't some "dull pencils" around, but you can't blame all of Keystone's problems on the production workers.....


I agree. It's a systemic problem from the top down. When quantity is the driving factor and quality is hoped for but not demanded, it becomes a mindset. Then, those that remain for long enough, and are good enough at that routine, become the supervisors/managers and the process keeps procreating itself. Those that were perfectionists slowly lose that focus as the demand for quantity (and desire for a job) slowly pushes aside any concern (or time) for quality. It's a win, win for the company; not so much for the buyer.

[Carrottop]

I have bought two Keystone trailers in Manitoba in two years(long story). Anyway we have had some issues with the first one which the dealer noticed not me and made the warranty claim. Interestingly enough I just had my new unit in for some end of year minor warranty work and they of course completed the work but did advise me that they actually dropped Keystone as a product line due to the large number of issues they were seeing. Not sure what to make of it but this dealer has been excellent from purchase through servicing since I started dealing with them. Take it for what it is but I found it telling.

[JRTJH]

If they dropped Keystone, my guess is that another manufacturer offered them a more lucrative contractual arrangement. It's hard to say why a company does what they do, but almost always it revolves around where the dollars are greatest and most abundant. Some dealerships change through the years because one brand becomes more popular in an area while other's change because they can't get enough trailers shipped to them to meet the demand.

There is one ATV company that requires its dealerships to accept "forced shipments" at the end of the year. What happens is the dealerships get stuck paying the inventory interest on everything the factory doesn't want to leave sitting in their holding yards and dealers wind up with excess "last years models" that they can't sell at a profit. All the while, those ATV's sit on the dealership lot while the dealer pays his bank interest on inventory he can't sell, didn't want and doesn't need.

While I'm not saying that Keystone does that to dealers, there's a reason why any dealer drops a line. It almost always ends up that the reason is money. Dealers put up with a lot of crap as long as they're making enough money to justify the aggravation, but they end the relationship when the money doesn't do enough "talking"......

[Carrottop]

I am sure you are correct. I am not well versed in that world and cannot speak to it. I can only say what they tell me. It may very well be the service manager tells me one thing and the owner is making decisions for a very different reason. As much as I like the Keystone line If I were to change trailers again I would have to switch brands as I would stick with the dealer as they have been great to deal with.

[jertour]

Something to do with the quality of keystone units, we took a tour of the plant last year and they just happen to be building the unit we purchased. The area rep that was leading the tour made the statement that the workers get paid by the piece not by the hour, so when they meet there quota there done for the day.

[sourdough]

Something to do with the quality of keystone units, we took a tour of the plant last year and they just happen to be building the unit we purchased. The area rep that was leading the tour made the statement that the workers get paid by the piece not by the hour, so when they meet there quota there done for the day.

This production model absolutely requires extensive oversight and QC to assure a quality product or the employee's desire to either "turn out more pieces" or "get off early" will negatively affect the quality of whatever gizmo is being made. It is obvious Keystone and the rest of the RV manufacturers choose to "turn out the pieces" with little thought about the QC, which would affect both productivity and thereby cost. Ahhh, such is the world of RVs and having fun...:facepalm:

[JRTJH]

Let's do a "head count using bean counter logic"....

How many of us have a travel trailer?

How many of us have sold or traded our travel trailer because we don't like the quality?

How many of us "gripe" about the quality while we long for the day the dealer gets it fixed and we can go "break something else" ???

Seems pretty easy to understand from a "bean counter" perspective: As long as we're buying them, breaking them and wanting to use them, the RV manufacturers making money and they are going to give us what we will pay the most for, not what we'd like to have but won't pay for.....

[Duster_Canuck]

Keystone honored two claims this year on our up-graded tri-fold sofabed. Maybe because it was a supplier's product and warranty... The armrest on the same side caved in twice in less than 10 months. No problems in getting it fully replaced, and ordering/install only took two weeks... not too shabby IMO

[Randallf]

Well here we are again. I've had my new 27SABWE for 7 months and I'm starting to seriously regret making this purchase. We've had numerous issues with this trailer and had to fight to get them addressed. To many to list. The latest is leaking windows. I discovered 2 windows had water in the frames after a storm. Took it to Folsom Lake RV for warranty. The pressure tested my trailer to find 7 windows leaking. Keystone is denying the warranty. :confused:



Is there such thing as a lemon law for trailers?
sorry to hear this, i had no problems with my issues. I was disappointed in the quality of workman ship from KEYSTONE MFG. They seem to go the cheapest way and that upsets me
It also helps the place u take your rv and woe they write it up.
Keep fighting, your in the rights to get this repaoired under warranty
RANDYGIBSON
2017 KEYSTONE SPRINTER FIFTHWHEEL

[Miles65]

Two warranty issues quickly taken care of by my dealer, Crestview, in Georgetown, TX: My canopy bent on first opening. The dealer sent someone to my house, forty- five minutes away. Together, we replaced a side, in an hour. My propane detector was old/defective. New one was waiting for me when I got back to town, two days later. No issues with warranty, at this point.

[Nomadicchefs]

We have nothing but problems with our camper as well. Keystone has never covered anything that was under warranty. Had we known they were so shady, we wouldn't have got this camper. The list of problems is almost laughable it's so long.

[foldbak]

Well...it continues. I took my trailer to the dealer to have the annual roof service done. $400 a year to maintain the roof warranty. They performed the process of washing the roof, resealing the dicore joints and brushed on the UV protectant. Then called me to tell me that the sealant was badly cracked and took two additional tubes a 1/2 hour more labor. Total additional cost $100. $160 an hour labor? :banghead:



I arrived to pick up the trailer and got on the roof to inspect it. I noticed two white blobs of dicore. I asked the service writer what was up and he replied "oh they found that two of the staples were backing out so they sealed the top of them. :facepalm: And you're just now telling me this? Don't you think this would have been an immediate phone call? My trailers under warranty. Is this covered? "I dont think they cover that". :dizzy:


I got off the roof and asked him so this is it? This is all you got for me? I then asked for the general manager. The trailer was purchased in November 2017. I bought the extended warranty. One main selling point was the roof warranty. As it turns out the roof warranty only covers the roof membrane. The structural warranty (which runs out in November 2020) might cover the staples backing out.



After doing some research I discovered that this is a common problem. Roof staples backing out and popping through the roof material. @ Keystone (Don't you think screws would make more sense?)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaPabXdFbkQ


The GM looked at my file and found pictures the the tech took of the staples and said she would have the service manager submit a warranty claim. I told them I wont accept and cut and patch job. The service manger told me that they have a claim in for a 5W for the same problem.



This trailers been at the dealer more then its been at home. I have a brand new cover that's never been on it because it's hasn't been here long enough to warrant covering.

[sourdough]

Your staple issue is a common one and has been mentioned several times on this and other forums as I recall. I don't believe it will, or has, been covered as memory serves. My trailer did the same thing and I also have the roof maintenance done yearly. Where the staples tried to start backing out I put patches of Eternabond tape over them to keep them from penetrating through the membrane (about 9 I think).

I wish you luck with pursuing a warranty claim and if you have luck, or not, please let the membership know. At the same time I would caution that the possibility of a denial is very high and the staple situation is common and folks deal with it, plus it certainly isn't specific to Keystone. It's the nature of the beast when we want a large trailer built to travel the highways and byways that endures a constant earthquake going through the body and chassis....and we want that vehicle to cost peanuts.

[foldbak]

Sourdough I wouldn't say 40K is peanuts. Quite frankly I would have paid 60K for a trailer that was built to quality standards. All said and done, new trailer and tow vehicle 100K I could have bought a Class A that would have lasted the rest of my life.



It's sad to think that people are ok spending this kind of money for what's ultimately a disposable toy.

[travelin texans]

Sourdough I wouldn't say 40K is peanuts. Quite frankly I would have paid 60K for a trailer that was built to quality standards. All said and done, new trailer and tow vehicle 100K I could have bought a Class A that would have lasted the rest of my life.



It's sad to think that people are ok spending this kind of money for what's ultimately a disposable toy.

That $100k class A has ALL the same appliances, same building materials, same folks that don't give s### building them, most have the same roof membrane, & the same warranty, the ONLY difference is you'd drive it not tow it, wouldn't count on it lasting the rest of your life unless you're nearly there.
Good luck with your claim.

[sourdough]

Sourdough I wouldn't say 40K is peanuts. Quite frankly I would have paid 60K for a trailer that was built to quality standards. All said and done, new trailer and tow vehicle 100K I could have bought a Class A that would have lasted the rest of my life.



It's sad to think that people are ok spending this kind of money for what's ultimately a disposable toy.

I'm not trying to trivialize the situation; just trying to be realistic. 40k is a lot of money for a toy, and that is what an RV is...certainly not an "investment" in the ordinary sense. In the realm of important, big expenses I think 40k for a trailer that some want to last a "lifetime" is, in reality, cheap.

100k for a truck and trailer isn't really a good comparison; at least not to me. I would have the truck anyway so that part wouldn't matter. 100k for a Class A that lasts a lifetime? I need to know where that is.:) We were set on buying a Class A when we retired almost 14 years ago. In fact had it lined up...but it wasn't 100k. 429k as I recall and I still had concerns about it. After putting my pros/cons list together as we were about to pull the trigger reality kicked in when the cons outnumbered the pros 3 to 1. Bought another TT and have been happy since.

To me, worrying about quality AFTER you've made the purchase is counterproductive and only makes one miserable. I've determined (found) that it's better to just take it as it comes in stride and do what you can to correct whatever it is because the RV world is what it is; that coming from a guy that is a WAY big type A person and will rail against the wind about many things....but the RV, the RV has taught me that is a losing game.:D I wish you well in getting things like you want.

[flybouy]

Sourdough I wouldn't say 40K is peanuts. Quite frankly I would have paid 60K for a trailer that was built to quality standards. All said and done, new trailer and tow vehicle 100K I could have bought a Class A that would have lasted the rest of my life.



It's sad to think that people are ok spending this kind of money for what's ultimately a disposable toy.

Just trying to understand. Not looking for an argument and certainly not condemning nor criticizing .

If you "would have paid 60K for a trailer that was built to quality standards." why didn't you spend 60K if Keystone is not being built to your "quality standards"?

I'm interested in finding the "built tp quality standard" 100K Class A as well. Everything I've seen seen in a 100K Class lines have been entry level, stapled together, low end appliance models.
JMHO

[chuckster57]

100K motorhome lasts a lifetime?

It will have the same appliances, staples holding it together, maybe a fiberglass roof. Then you have to deal with the Chassis, RV dealers that I’ve worked for don’t do chassis work and as such have to go to the Ford/GM dealer. Lots of them won’t work on motorhomes as they are too big to fit in a bay.

[notanlines]

Foldbak, I simply cannot imagine either of two things coming true that you have on your Christmas wish list: Keystone replacing the roof membrane because of a few staples working their way up is number one, and number two is covering the staple problem under structural problems.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be irritating, but ain't gonna happen in my opinion. I had a new Chevy 2500 in about 2009 and the camshaft wore two lobes flat at about 12K miles. Not only did they not give me a new engine (which I certainly didn't expect) but they were not going to change the oil and filter. When I insisted, it came up on my bill until the service writer calmed me down and removed it.
Don't look for a new roof.

[foldbak]

Just to clarify when I said 100K I certainly didn't mean a new class A. But the market is flooded with very nice well maintained motor homes that would suite me well. And when I say a lifetime I'm referring to the rest of my life at 62 :rolleyes:



At the end of the day this is my first new trailer and I guess I had higher expectations for a product being built in 2020! This is my 5th trailer and all my prior trailers were better constructed then this one. It's been at the dealership longer then its been at my house. The list of repairs are too long to mention.



Suffices to say that having to replace every single window because of improper installation kind of says it all.



Anyway I'll keep you updated on the outcome.

[foldbak]

Roof update:
Keystone is actually talking to the dealership regarding warranty. Apparently the structural warranty may cover the staples backing out. The Service manager is coming to my house today to inspect the roof and take pictures for Keystone. This is pretty dam good service compared to what I have experienced in the past. Of course both the GM and Service Manager have been upgraded ;) and they dont want to rack up anymore lot time on my trailer.....lemon law.



Fingers crossed!

[gearhead]

I think I've said this on here before, maybe a couple times. If I had it to do all over.... based on my experience with my Bigfoot cabover, I would go get a Bigfoot travel trailer to start with. But, the price will bring tears to your eyes.
Or maybe an Oliver.

[wiredgeorge]

Roof update:
Keystone is actually talking to the dealership regarding warranty. Apparently the structural warranty may cover the staples backing out. The Service manager is coming to my house today to inspect the roof and take pictures for Keystone. This is pretty dam good service compared to what I have experienced in the past. Of course both the GM and Service Manager have been upgraded ;) and they dont want to rack up anymore lot time on my trailer.....lemon law.



Fingers crossed!

You asked why staples vs screws? Have you ever seen a stick & brick home built where studs are screwed together. A staple gun.... slap slap slap and we are done. Screws take forever relatively. They can't use a nail gun up on the roof trusses as the trusses are a bit puny for a nail gun I suspect.

[LHaven]

Of course both the GM and Service Manager have been upgraded ;) and they dont want to rack up anymore lot time on my trailer.....lemon law.

Lemon law applies to trailers in your state? Lucky you... everywhere I have lived, if it doesn't have an engine in it, the lemon law doesn't cover it.

[chuckster57]

Lemon law applies to trailers in your state? Lucky you... everywhere I have lived, if it doesn't have an engine in it, the lemon law doesn't cover it.



I live and work in California. I’ve only seen 3 or 4 factory buy backs in my years as a tech. OP: what dealership if you can say?

[foldbak]

I live and work in California. I’ve only seen 3 or 4 factory buy backs in my years as a tech. OP: what dealership if you can say?


Ya I dont expect a buy back nor am I looking for one. I just want my $40000 investment to last me awhile. I've already invested 6K in it. Onan, Aims, etc. At 62 I dont see buying another NEW trailer.



As far as the dealership I have no problem naming. Folsom Lake RV. They've been here as long as I've been here. One of the reasons I did business with them. Convenient. I could have gotten a better price and MAYBE better service but at a cost. I recently discovered their shop hourly price is $180. I about crapped myself. My Ford dealership is cheaper....


Anyway they've gone through some changes and hopefully for the better. I'm still a bit shocked that if I hadn't climbed up on my roof after the annual roof service prior to paying the bill and discovered the blobs of Dicor on top of the protruding staples....I wouldn't have known anything about. it. My next conversation. :nonono:

[foldbak]

Let's do a "head count using bean counter logic"....

How many of us have a travel trailer?

How many of us have sold or traded our travel trailer because we don't like the quality?

How many of us "gripe" about the quality while we long for the day the dealer gets it fixed and we can go "break something else" ???

Seems pretty easy to understand from a "bean counter" perspective: As long as we're buying them, breaking them and wanting to use them, the RV manufacturers making money and they are going to give us what we will pay the most for, not what we'd like to have but won't pay for.....


I missed this and have to reply. I started with a 1950's aluminum Colman pop up tent trailer. It was amazing! Quality quality quality! Had to replace the canvas. It was 5' x 5' collapsed. Upgraded to a regular sized Colman tent trailer. Still good quality. Upgraded to a Jayco 21' ultralight. Built in onan and inverter. Spoiled at this point. Excellent trailer. Upgraded to a Fleetwood 30' Cougar. Very well built. All trailers were used and no complaints or regrets. I'd still have the Fleetwood but after 13 years the sides started to delam so we decided to bite the bullet and buy new in hopes that it would last our final chapter.



The point is that craftsmanship has not gotten better! It's gotten worse. The manufactures profits have increased because we allow it! We just settle and accept it because we either dont know any better or weren't presented an option. Honestly I wouldn't have gone this route knowing what I know now. There are options that cost more up front but pay off in the long run. Ok I'm done :cool: Peace

[sourdough]

I missed this and have to reply. I started with a 1950's aluminum Colman pop up tent trailer. It was amazing! Quality quality quality! Had to replace the canvas. It was 5' x 5' collapsed. Upgraded to a regular sized Colman tent trailer. Still good quality. Upgraded to a Jayco 21' ultralight. Built in onan and inverter. Spoiled at this point. Excellent trailer. Upgraded to a Fleetwood 30' Cougar. Very well built. All trailers were used and no complaints or regrets. I'd still have the Fleetwood but after 13 years the sides started to delam so we decided to bite the bullet and buy new in hopes that it would last our final chapter.



The point is that craftsmanship has not gotten better! It's gotten worse. The manufactures profits have increased because we allow it! We just settle and accept it because we either dont know any better or weren't presented an option. Honestly I wouldn't have gone this route knowing what I know now. There are options that cost more up front but pay off in the long run. Ok I'm done :cool: Peace

I know you said you're done but you picked up a year old post.....

You can't really compare "1950s, 60s etc." to today. Lord knows, look at modern vehicles, technology etc. I wasn't as fortunate as you, all my older trailers weren't "perfect" with no issues...they had them.

Craftmanship has gotten worse? No, you get FAR more now for your dollar (time/value adjusted) than you did back then. The issue is what people want vs what they want to pay vs what they want to pay for a TV. The RV manufacturers are hitting that nail on the head and doing well at it. Those that want that "quality" from the 50s/60s to have continually improved yet pay a minimal price and be able to tow it with a 1/4 ton.....THAT is the issue. Again, it IS the nature of the beast. It IS reality. Don't know any better? Of course people know the situation. Presented options up front? Lord knows there are dozens of options, folks pick what option they want to pay for...that's it. Cost more up front but pay off in the long run? I'm not sure what that means unless you mean to keep an RV for a lifetime? Look around you - that won't happen. Not being ugly just pointing out that reality is what it is.

[Ken / Claudia]

George hit the staple on the head about why staples not screws. Screws would take too long and need much better wood, like a 2x4. This stuff used nowadays will split unless you use a staple.

[chuckster57]

$180/hr isn’t out of line in the RV business out here. Hope the change of personnel works in your favor and you reach an agreeable solution soon.

Not to derail this thread, did you get snow today? Very cold and windy down in the valley.

[notanlines]

Foldbak, "At 62 I don't see buying another NEW trailer." You haven't even got a good start on buying new RV's yet! You have a virtual lifetime of experiences ahead of you!

[foldbak]

You asked why staples vs screws? Have you ever seen a stick & brick home built where studs are screwed together. A staple gun.... slap slap slap and we are done. Screws take forever relatively. They can't use a nail gun up on the roof trusses as the trusses are a bit puny for a nail gun I suspect.


I have construction experience and there are a lot of barbed pneumatic fastener options. Even a barbed flat head nail would be a better choice. Lightweight trailer in harsh conditions? Make better construction material choices. I'll pay more for it...



Roof update
The service manger came to my home and took pictures. Submitted them for warranty and was denied. He and the GM fought Keystone and they agreed to......wait for it.....


Remove, repair and replace the entire roof!

I was shocked! I just hope they have the techs to pull this off. We will be upgrading the staples. :cool:
So far every window has been replaced and now the roof. I hope this is the end of our warranty issues. I'll update you with the outcome.

Anyway cheers to Folsom Lake RV.

[sourdough]

Thanks for the update. I'm very glad to hear they are taking care of the roof. I think it also goes to show how important it is to have a good dealer in your corner. Many places would have just blown it off and said "Keystone said no". It also goes to show, IMO, that Keystone is open to valid issues when presented properly (or repeatedly).

As far as the techs, I obviously don't know about your location but mine is a CW in TX and I've wondered about such things as well. I was in a couple of months ago and the SM was telling me about an old classic trailer that had been brought in by an older lady that wanted it restored even though it would cost more money than a new one. He had the before pictures and it was TERRIBLE; looked like it was falling off the frame. He had pictures of the crew and the various steps they took to restore it; impressive. Then he took me to the new one waiting for the lady to pick up next day. It was unbelievable. Thought I had walked into 1950 with modern appliances. Awesome. They replaced every component; roof, walls, floor etc. and had the pictures for it. I couldn't believe it. Hope your crew can do as good a job and good luck.

[MarkEHansen]

We've purchased our trailer through the same dealer. They've been very good about handing warranty issues and in one case, made it clear to us that if a claim was denied by Keystone, they would honor it themselves. I don't know the outcome of their communication with Keystone, but my issue was resolved.

They've gone through difference service managers, some not so good, but we've always been able to get what we needed from them.

I'm glad your issue was resolved as well (or will be...)

[foldbak]

Yes the last 2 service managers were awful, The new manager is much better. I do miss the GM Angle. Not sure what happened but he stormed out one day. I believe it's the owners grand daughter that's sitting in that position right now.

[MarkEHansen]

Wow ... I hadn't heard that. How long ago did that happen? He was always a straight-shooter as far as I could tell (for a salesman :) )

[foldbak]

Early 2019 just before the service manger change.

[foldbak]

Update


I dropped off the trailer at the dealership today. Not only are they replacing the entire roof but their gluing a layer of 1/4 luan paneling before they install a new roof membrane. :eek: Mind blown! Once finished they'll preform a pressure test.


I couldn't ask for more from Keystone. Can I edit the thread title?

[JRTJH]

Update


I dropped off the trailer at the dealership today. Not only are they replacing the entire roof but their gluing a layer of 1/4 luan paneling before they install a new roof membrane. :eek: Mind blown! Once finished they'll preform a pressure test.


I couldn't ask for more from Keystone. Can I edit the thread title?

You can't edit the title, but send me a PM with your requested changes and I can edit it for you.

[skids]

It’s is somewhat comforting that Keystone is taking care you your travel trailer. There are too many warranties that aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.

[JRTJH]

I'd suspect that if you dig deeply into what happened in this problem, you'll find a "very active and involved dealership", "extremely good documentation of the problem", good, effective communication between the dealership and Keystone" and a series of frequent, consistent communications between all parties involved, from the owner, service department, dealership management, and the Keystone Warranty Section.

I'd say a very welcome decision on what to repair and how to do it. Now, let's hope this solves the problem "permanently" for this problem.....

[foldbak]

Update:

Picked up the trailer from Folsom Lake RV yesterday. It has a new roof. They removed everything from the roof. Removed the trim and TPO. Removed the failed staples and replaced with screws. Installed another layer of luan with screws. Installed new TPO and roof components. Performed a leak test.

I also dropped off two Max Air vent covers and an RV door window with internal shade for them to install expecting to pay for the labor. They installed at no charge.

Kudos to Folsom Lake RV and their new management!

[MarkEHansen]

It's great to hear this worked out so well. I've personally had very good experiences with that dealership. This is why the selection of the right dealership makes all the different in the world with RV ownership.

[JRTJH]

Definitely, this is a "quality dealership"....

That said, I wonder how many shoppers will stop in, get a price, then drive cross-country to save $4000 and next year be on here, complaining that their trailer roof has problems and "Keystone won't help"...…

While "being thrifty" is important, it's experiences like this one that depict "the other side of the story". It almost makes one want to "pay more and drive cross country to buy from that dealer".... Well, figuratively speaking, anyway...

It's refreshing to hear about an overwhelmingly positive outcome.....

[Northofu1]

Update:

Picked up the trailer from Folsom Lake RV yesterday. It has a new roof. They removed everything from the roof. Removed the trim and TPO. Removed the failed staples and replaced with screws. Installed another layer of luan with screws. Installed new TPO and roof components. Performed a leak test.

I also dropped off two Max Air vent covers and an RV door window with internal shade for them to install expecting to pay for the labor. They installed at no charge.

Kudos to Folsom Lake RV and their new management!

Great news,,, glad it came to a positive result.

[sourdough]

It's great to hear this worked out so well. I've personally had very good experiences with that dealership. This is why the selection of the right dealership makes all the different in the world with RV ownership.


This is so true and I wish everyone would take it into consideration. We are in FL and pricing on RVs just seem cheaper. One of the head guys for CW in IL told me to go to the Tampa show, pick one out and they would ship it to me. Looked at another in a different city and they all had great pricing....but;

DW and I talked about how MY dealership treats, and has treated, me. I didn't want to lose that despite CWs assurances. Decided to get one back in TX and those guys are breaking their backs for me to get it all sorted out; helpful, friendly, measuring, sending pictures etc. - and giving me some knockout pricing! After my first call with the GM I wondered how in the world I ever thought about buying somewhere else and we are very happy we came to our senses.

[foldbak]

Here are some pictures