Piping breaker

[Cathie&Al]

We tooK our brand new Springdale 279 RL out for our trial run las week. Unfortunately, anywhere in OK was going to be hot, but we decided we had to do the initial run. It was 105* when we pulled in to set up. Ugh. First thing we found out was, we could not run the water heater and the air at the same time without popping the breaker. We ave 30 amp trailer with a 13.5 air unit.
We then discovered problem with the gas side of the water heater, which was supposed to have been fixed during the pdi. So no, hot water. No big deal, as there were nice showers. My question, is this a normal situation? Why in the heck not put circuits in that can handle the equipment put in a trailer? I guess we did not know the right questions to ask when buying.

Edit: that should be Popping Breakers! :)))

[rjsurfer]

You should be able to run both the AC and the water heater at the same time....When setting up the camper for a trip I run my camper from my house 15amp service and run the AC/water heater/Converter/fridge etc all from a single outlet.


I'm confused about your water heater problem? there aren't 2 separate water heaters, one for gas and one for 110v AC, you said there was a PDI issue with the gas heater?

Maybe the AC side of the water heater has a short causing the breaker to trip. There might be a small AC on/off switch inside the heater accessed through the outside door, it's HARD to see but it's there, turn it to the off position this will prevent the AC heater element from turning on. This switch is important it keeps that heating element from going on, something you want to prevent when the water heater is drained from wintererizing the system. That element WILL burn out if the tank is empty

Ron W.

[Paddler]

Hi Cathie & Al,
Sorry to here about your maiden voyage problems. Just a thought, your circuit breaker problem could possible be a problem with the campground and not your rig.

Under normal conditions you should be able to run both the AC and electric hot water with no issues. However, if the park was pretty full and everyone is running their ACs full blast, the voltage going to each rig might be low (less than 108VAC). If the voltage is low, then the current each appliance normally draws has to go up, so your circuit breaker could trip when the heating element comes on.

One way to make yourself aware of this potential problem is to purchase a plug in AC Voltmeter. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/ac-voltage-meter/29375 That way you can monitor your incoming power and adjust how and when you use it.

As to the hot water heater running on gas...if you can give us a few more details we might have some quick troubleshooting tips you could try before you return your rig to your dealer for repair.

[Cathie&Al]

Thanks, Ron. I meant the gas side of the water heater. Have edited it to make it clearer. The gas would not ignite. They thought a bit of cobweb, insect or something got in the line and had cleared it out and all was well at the dealer's, of course. Then did the same thing when we camped.

[Cathie&Al]

Steve, the gas igniter (?) would do it's cycle, not light, cycle again, not ignite, do it again and then would "poof" ( the scary kind, makes you think it was going to blow up), and still not be lit. At that point, we turned it off!

[Paddler]

I'm not an expert on gas (tho my better half would probably disagree :jester: ) so let's just cover the basics. 1) turn the gas on at the bottle. 2) turn on one of the stove burners to bleed the air out of the gas lines. Once the burner is lit, could you get all the burners lit and running wide open? If not, then you could be having a problem with the gas bottle pig tail exessive flow shut off device. I just ran into that one two weeks ago...another story. 3) Turn off the range burners and switch on the gas hot water heater. If it fails to light after three cycles, then you will have to see your dealer or someone with more GAS experience will have to walk you through the troubleshooting process.
Hope that helped a little,

[depshrink]

Just got back from a week of camping, and experienced the same probelm with my Laredo 293rk. The hot water had been working well the first couple of days, but only had cold water Saturday morning. Turned the switches off and tried to start it again, and had the same "poof!!" you described. I then switched the electrical switch on and heated the water with that instead of gas. But..When I tried to run the air conditioner too, I eventually tripped the circuit breaker on the campground electrical box. I checked all the Laredo's fuses first, not even thinking about the fuses outside, till I saw that all my fuses were good. Other campers told be to blow air into the gas jet in the water heater. I will try that. Seems like a common problem.

[Cathie&Al]

So, today my husband took the FW into dealer and asked about the air conditioner/ hot water heater popping the breakers. They stated that we can not run the air and the elec. hot water heater at the same time. My husband said it would have been nice if someone had told us that, as we live in Oklahoma where we usually need the air and hot water at the same time. We might have done something entirely different as we do not want to have to depend on the gas water heater when we have campsites with elec. We have no recourse now, but this really irritates me. Just blowing off steam!

[hankpage]

So, today my husband took the FW into dealer and asked about the air conditioner/ hot water heater popping the breakers. They stated that we can not run the air and the elec. hot water heater at the same time. My husband said it would have been nice if someone had told us that, as we live in Oklahoma where we usually need the air and hot water at the same time. We might have done something entirely different as we do not want to have to depend on the gas water heater when we have campsites with elec. We have no recourse now, but this really irritates me. Just blowing off steam!

I think you will find that you get much quicker recovery time using gas. If I use only electric to heat water the DW uses it all and I wind up with cold shower. With gas we never run out and it rarely runs unless being used.

[Cathie&Al]

Thanks, Hank. That is a positive. Just hate to pay for propane when elec. Is available. Guess we will Make sure we only camp in nice weather!

[Paddler]

Hi Cathie & Al,
About the only time we have tripped the breakers, usually involved running a space heater and then using the microwave. I can't recall ever tripping a main breaker over the AC and electric hot water heater elements. Except for the last 4 months, all of our camping experiences have been with a travel trailer...30 Amps.

Since we have been in the 5er, 50 Amps, we haven't tripped any breakers no matter what we run. Now, perhaps if your rig is wired for 30 Amps, you have a 15K AC unit and a larger (> 6 gallon) hot water heater (with a corresponding higher wattage heating element) then perhaps the dealer is correct. Personally, I would still be looking into the possibility of low input ACV from the campgound. I guess your next camping trip will answer the question.

Oh, did the dealer find anything wrong with the GAS operation of the Hot water heater?
Best wishes,

[christopherglenn]

Try turning the AC on first, making sure EVERYTHING else is off, (that includes the converter), then turn on the electric WH. The converter (battery charger) + water heater being on may not leave enough capacity on the 30 amp braker for the surge when the AC starts. When the AC cycles later, you may have problems again..

[Cathie&Al]

Will try that.
We just dropped the FW off, as they are overloaded with lots of work. We will get it back sometime next week. They probably only need to blow the gas tube out to fix it. Also, they needed to fix the toilet issue.

[chuckretnav]

Still seems very strange that you cannot run the Air and the water heater on elec at the same time. Just dosnt make sense to not be able to do that. I have a 327res Cougar and do it all the time. Even added a second A/C and when Im hooked to 50 amp run them all. But even just on 30 Amp still able to run one A/C and the water heater and microwave at same time.

[Cathie&Al]

So, how what do we tell the dealer? I believe all of you who say we should be able to run both at the same time, but they say we can't do it. I am so confused about how to handle this.

[hankpage]

So, how what do we tell the dealer? I believe all of you who say we should be able to run both at the same time, but they say we can't do it. I am so confused about how to handle this.

Actually if you add up the amperage draw you should not be able to run A/C, converter and electric water heater on 30 amp service. But many do with no problems. I guess it is one of the mysteries of life. :rolleyes: I did with my old trailer for 12 yrs. My Cougar blows the CG breaker after an hour every time so I avoid the electric W/H with the A/C.

[Johnnyfry]

I have a318SAB with a 50 amp service and a 15 kBTU A/C unit. Many times I hook up to a 30 amp service and have never had a problem using the HW heater and A/C at the same time. Even during the recent 100F heat wave.

The A/C was running constantly during the late afternoon & early evening. Even a few 1 or 2 minute microwave runs did not blow the breaker. I have not put a clamp on ammeter on it to see what is going on, I will try that soon as I am considering a generator and want to know actual loads.

John

[Festus2]

Cathie & Al:
I don't want to add to the confusion but I don't think there is general agreement here that you can run the A/C and your HW heater at the same time without tripping the breaker.
I will share with you the information I have gathered about current/amp draws on your system. Take a look at these figures ( and they are averages):
Air Conditioner .......... 14 amps
HW Heater ............ 12 amps
You now have 26amps on a 30 amp circuit. That leaves you with 4 amps to spare.
Add in these:
the Converter .......... 6 amps (people sometimes forget this one)
Fridge on AC..... 6 amps
Now you have 26 + 12 = 38 amps.
Already you have gone over the 30 amp "limit" and the breaker will likely trip.
If you happen to have a light on, radio/TV, sensors, etc.... throw in another 4 or 5 amps......and you are up over 40 amps.
As you can see, it doesn't take much to go over that 30 amp limit.
These figures tell me that you shouldn't be able to run both the A/C and the HW heater at the same time as well as having the fridge and converter in operation. Something has to "pop".
If some people can do it.... like Hank says... it is a mystery. In theory, it doesn't seem possible.
Is it not possible for you to run the fridge on propane (when it gets fixed) while you are using your A/C? Doing this should greatly reduce the chances of popping the breaker.

[Cathie&Al]

Festus 2, thanks for your input. I had gotten the manuals out and had added up the hot water heater and air, and we had come to this conclusion. I think when we tried to run it, we did not have anything else on, no lights etc. Did not think about the converter.
We could not use the gas for the hot water heater as it was not working. We took it in and they have supposedly fixed this. We will pick it up tomorrow and have them "show" us that it really works.
When it is actually working, then we will not have a problem. Thanks again for all the input from everyone.

[Trigger12]

I was having the same problem with my 1 month old 279 springdale. They changed the breaker and it hasn't tripped since. But I set my A/C to 80 during the day so it's not working so hard in the Texas 105* heat.

My biggest question is, why do they still put 30 amp service in trailers if you can only run 1-2 things at a time?!

[Cathie&Al]

New breaker: That is interesting.
That was our question, also. We live and bought it in Okla. I really wished they had told us that this would happen, or if they did, guess they needed to slap us up the side of the head so we would remember it.:dizzy:

Maybe I will just have my husband change the breaker. Easier than taking it back 60 miles to the dealer.

[Trigger12]

My dealer checked out the A/C system and everything checked out ok so they put in a new breaker. The problem is they use a dual pole breaker with the 30amp main and 20amp A/C together. After my warranty period I will put in a separate 20amp for the A/C in a spare slot.

[Cathie&Al]

Interesting, Trigger 12. Our dealer told us that we just can't use the air and elec. hot water heater at the same time.
It really is confusing, isn't it.

[Trigger12]

It's terrible. But with a new breaker, I have been running electric WH, fridge, A/C, fan, and inverter in 105* heat and haven't had a problem (currently knocking on wood)...