A/C issues

[GrumpyG]

Ok, I was out on initial trip, but out of warranty. A/C failed. Call to Dometic repair resulted in diagnosis that a/C was toast and needed to be replaced. Question to group... does units always need to be replaced or can one just recharge that unit?

[chuckster57]

RV A/C units do not come with service ports installed. Replacement is the normal repair.

[SC Dreamer]

I have had window unit that came without charge connections and a local repair place cut the lines and soldered in some to see where leak was. That was on residential so not sure there is room to do that on rv units. May be worth a shot, but only if parts can be had.

[{tpc}]

RV A/C units do not come with service ports installed. Replacement is the normal repair.

What do they typically do with the old units? My mind is imagining a giant landfill somewhere littered with old ac units lol. Is there any benefit to keeping them after the replacement? Or do you get some sort of "core" charge back so they can be refurbished and put back in service?

[chuckster57]

We send them to a metal recycling place.

[{tpc}]

We send them to a metal recycling place.

Makes sense. I am surprised they aren't serviceable at all. But guess just how some things are.

[JRTJH]

It's the same "disposable item" philosophy with far too many items these days. Right now there's another thread on the forum with a member who has a "bad landing gear motor". In days past, brushes, armatures, motor casings were available to rebuild almost any electric motor. If you didn't want to do the work, every town of any size had an electric motor service for AC motors and an automotive electric service for DC motors/generators/alternators.

Now, rather than paying $50 to rebuild a landing gear motor or $35 to recharge an air conditioner, we pay $400 for a new motor or $500 for a new A/C. Sure seems like a "step backwards" to me, but hey, with the new "made in China" motor, you get a warranty, with the rebuilt one, it's up to the integrity of the guy that rebuilt it for you...... Hmmmmmm :whistling:

[flybouy]

Just my opinion but I think 2 processes are happening. First It's my opinion, no facts just observations, that the "typical American" whether the it's the me too or the millennium generations only want new and don't understand refurbished as they only know dispose and replace and Two the accepted perception by merchants that RV, boat, luxury auto owners are wealthy and therefore can afford the upcharge of owning their luxuries. Like I stated in opening, just my opinion garnered from years of owning and maintaining such items.

[summerhummer]

It's the same "disposable item" philosophy with far too many items these days. Right now there's another thread on the forum with a member who has a "bad landing gear motor". In days past, brushes, armatures, motor casings were available to rebuild almost any electric motor. If you didn't want to do the work, every town of any size had an electric motor service for AC motors and an automotive electric service for DC motors/generators/alternators.

Now, rather than paying $50 to rebuild a landing gear motor or $35 to recharge an air conditioner, we pay $400 for a new motor or $500 for a new A/C. Sure seems like a "step backwards" to me, but hey, with the new "made in China" motor, you get a warranty, with the rebuilt one, it's up to the integrity of the guy that rebuilt it for you...... Hmmmmmm :whistling:
JRTJH is so right on this topic. Used to be you could rebuild everything. My tongue Jack just went out. I was tempted to take out the motor and check it out. I discovered it was from China via an internet search and didn't even take out the screw of the casing... I just knew there were no serviceable parts. Its a shame we are in this predicament. Some of us still like to fix things. :)

[GrumpyG]

Thanks for the info.

[Gegrad]

JRTJH is so right on this topic. Used to be you could rebuild everything. My tongue Jack just went out. I was tempted to take out the motor and check it out. I discovered it was from China via an internet search and didn't even take out the screw of the casing... I just knew there were no serviceable parts. Its a shame we are in this predicament. Some of us still like to fix things. :)

My understanding for the reason so many more items are not as serviceable has to with the manufacturing process and cost control. In the past, most items were mechanical in nature and you could easily replace gears and such. Those items were generally (controlling for inflation) more expensive to buy. Currently, more things are electronically controlled and thus controlled by a computer, expensive circuit board, or are often made as one unit in a sealed system, like the air conditioners. This makes them cheaper to manufacture and thus purchase new than individual component items. Often you can replace the circuit board (but not individual components on the circuit board- I had to replace the moor control board on my home washing machine 2 weeks ago), but the sealed systems are often not serviceable. The trade off comes in that as a whole, while the sealed systems/ electronic components are generally more reliable and longer lasting, when they go kaput whole replacement is necessary. So rather than nickel and dimeing you for $10-20 here and there every few months, they cost $0, then BOOM, replacement. What you think of this development depends on your viewpoint.

[JRTJH]

Gegrad,

In more "complex assemblies" I agree with you, but we're talking about an air conditioner with a copper Freon line that doesn't contain an access point (more about the manufacturer saving $2 than about reliability and servicing. The second example I gave was a simple DC motor, no electronics, no gearing, no "exotic IC circuits", just a plain shell with magnets, an armature winding, burshes and two bearings, one on each end. For 50 years we rebuilt that kind of motor in automotive starters, but now, we buy (actually Lippert buys) them from China in "disposable form. They charge us $350 for a replacement motor (significant profit) and don't make replacement parts available. If you've ever looked at a stabilizer jack motor or a landing gear motor, they all have two or four screws that hold on the end cap. Remove those screws and the armature will slip out in your hands. The brushes are on the other end, connected to the two wires. If one could get parts, repairing/rebuilding those motors would cost less than $20 in most situations. It would entail a bit of emery paper to clean the armature, two bearings and two brushes plus a little bit of time.

Our "disposable oriented society" has moved to throwing all the good parts in a land fill, spending 10 times the money on a new one, rather than repairing the motor and keeping it in service.

While the end result is the same, operational A/C or operational jack/landing gear, the cost to the owner is significantly increased with the "disposable model". Happy Lippert or Dometic, complaining RV owner who just spent $350 on a replacement motor that was 2 years old and saying under his breath, "Damn China crap."...... YMMV

[Gegrad]

John- Those are very fair points about cost cutting and simple items being more disposable.

As for the AC, yep, cheap cost cutting measures like that are frustrating. We see that most famously in the auto industry, where a manufacturer saves $2 by using plastic timing guides in their engines instead of metal ones (ask me how I know :) ) or other things like that. So yes, that is frustrating when they don't put an access point on the freon line, and other such things.

As to the other stuff, I am with you on that. My father has long lamented the days of repairing items like simple motors too (he is 69 and remembers working in service garages at 16-18 repairing all kinds of items). I was just tossing my understanding of current manufacturing processes out there, but I can see where it doesn't jive with small, simple items like jack or stabilizer motors. I do not know if there are underlying engineering or manufacturing (quantities of scale) hurdles there, or just a simple way to increase profits. The cynic in me of course says profits, but the engineer in me can see some hurdles in the production of small replacement parts.

[chuckster57]

Out here on the LEFT coast, one would have to be certified in HVAC to service the unit if it had ports. No certification required to swap it out.

[flybouy]

Out here on the LEFT coast, one would have to be certified in HVAC to service the unit if it had ports. No certification required to swap it out.

I beleive that's Federal Law, https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certification-0 and I doubt the RV dealer would be willing to pay a certified tech for the limited amout of work they would be able to charge for, i.e. it's just not cost effective.

[chuckster57]

They would just have one regular tech be certified. That way he/she could do other things, and just do AC’s as they showed up.

[sgrol]

Back on topic - yes it may be repairable. Could be as s simple as a bad capacitor. If the compressor is shot but all else in good condition get a new compressor. Could be fan motor. Give some more details on what it is and is not doing and I may be able to narrow down the problem and solution. I have repaired many of these units. Just because it does not have a charge port doesn't mean it is not repairable.

[Primebeef]

So what exactly isnt happening when you turn the unit on??
Does it run at all? You mention charging the unit, how do you know that it needs refrigerant?
There isnt a unit made that I cant work on, (install a service tap) and I have worked on some very special one of a kind units. (Military and research medicine.) 47+ yrs and was licensed contractor in Michigan before retiring.
So, tell us what’s going on or not happening.