Sway ... Problem or not?

[BamaRam]

Unless I watch for large trucks and slightly correct steering when the bow wave from a large vehicle hits the back of my trailer, the nose of the truck pulls left.


I can also feel fast 4 wheelers.


Is this abnormal? I know I need to check my hitch adjustment, I'm wondering if a perfect setup on this hitch could eliminate this cause of sway. I have an E2.

[sonic2]

These videos show the importance of anti-sway and correct weight distribution for towing. This perfectly illustrates what occurs when poor loading of the RV is made. If the load on the nose is insufficient it renders the TV unstable and prevents the combination as a whole from stabilizing. This is the "BEST" examples I've ever viewed.

Additionally, "wind" and you TV is a factor. Are you pulling more than your TV is rated? 3/4 ton and 1 ton have better axles for towing. Tires on your TV is a factor because of quality and ratings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-hUX8memY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyagKzvJwYw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8

Here is some good information that no one talks about. Everyone talks about payload and towing capabilities - people state their vehicle can tow, but it's the payload that's the concern. I'm overloaded on payload (I determined this after my purchases with more increased knowledge); I added items to my rear end suspension to aide in handling and weight. I only drive 90 miles one way towing on flat land 5 times a year. When I get a new RV, I will get a 3/4 to; it will drive better and I will be safer. Research and gaining knowledge on any subject matter is what I do, I never want to stop learning.

How are the difference created? The questions and answers are the parts used; there can be difference's between engines, brakes parts, rear end gearing, transmission, radiators and transmission coolers, frame, suspension and other related parts. Here is just one example of a difference between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton:

Semi Floating vs Full Floating Axles
How Semi & Full Floating Axles Differ
You're probably aware that full floating axles are preferred in high torque, high load applications as a result of their strength. The simplest manner in which to explain the full float's advantage is in the loads that the axle shaft must bear - a semi floating axle is subjected to torsional and shear stress, while a full floating axle shaft is only subjected to a torsional load. Any shear force on a full floating axle shaft can be considered negligible based on the fact that the axle bearings and axle tubes primarily carry the weight of the vehicle and all its cargo. With few exceptions, semi floating axles are found in light duty pickups while majority of 3/4 ton and larger pickups come with a full floating axle. The strength of a full floater comes at a cost, as these axles are also significantly heavier.

Semi Floating Axle
By design, a semi floating axle uses a wheel hub that is directly connected to the axle shaft (the hub and axle shaft are commonly a single part), which is supported by a bearing located near the wheel end of the shaft. As such, the weight of the vehicle and any cargo must be carried by the axle shaft itself. Therefore, the axle shaft is used to transmit power to the wheel as well as support the load of the vehicle, applying both bending and torsional forces to the axle. Semi floating axles are both lighter in weight and cheaper to manufacture than full floating axles, though they have a limited load capacity. They're are very common in light duty vehicles, such as midsize and 1/2 ton pickups.

Full Floating Axle
A full floating axle consists of a wheel hub assemble that is separate from the axle shaft. A spindle bolted to the axle tube supports the wheel hub by means of a pair of wheel bearings. Therefore, the weight of the vehicle and its cargo is transfered to the axle tube, rather than the axle shaft itself. As a result, a full floating axle shaft is not subjected to the bending force that a semi floating axle is. Rather, the axle shaft's only task is to transmit power to the wheel hub. As a result, the shaft is only subjected to torsional loading. Full floating axles are rather heavy, but have very large weight carrying capacities. They are common on 3/4 ton and heavier trucks, which require the ability to transport considerable weight.

To increase the capacity of a semi floating axle, the axle shaft diameter would have to be increased, where as the spindle and wheel hub design determine, for the most part, the carrying capacity of a full floating axle. The diagram below provides a rough comparison between semi and full floating axles. Note that this is not a blueprint of any particle axle and therefore the exact designs will vary depending on the axle.

Semi floating & full floating axle diagram
http://www.4wdhub.com/img/figures/semi-vs-full-floating-axle.jpg

[BamaRam]

Lots of good info there. Thank you.

I have a 3/4 ton Ram with full floating axle. New Michelin LRE tires inflated to values stated in owners manual. New front end. New shocks. I don’t think it’s the TV. I have learned that the short box puts me at a slight disadvantage towing a bumpers pull.

In regards to weight distribution the trailer was all but empty. No more than 200 lbs distributed as evenly as practical.

The rig doesn’t look to be light on front end. It may be time to check hitch and hit the scales.

[SC Dreamer]

When you are on flat, level ground make sure the tt and tv are level to each other and the ground. Neither should be nose up or down with proper tongue weight.

[Retired Copper]

I had an e2 with a 30 foot PassPort pulling with a capable 1/2ton. Setup perfectly I got the same pulling and pushing and did not like it at all. Upgraded to an E4 and it was a way better and tighter tow. The e2 might be ok for under 24 feet but I will never know because I have found what I was looking for. Now pull the trailer with a 3/4 ton and highways, trucks and winds have very little effect. Sure you will still get a little push orbump every once in a while but it`s the same feeling when towing anything. that tall and long,

[BamaRam]

I was looking at the E4 but I plan to upgrade the trailer tires and see if that helps. It has China bombs on it now. I have read that the tires can make a difference due to strength of sidewalls.

My dilemma is that I don’t know when to stop trying to stop the sway because I’m new at this.

[Northofu1]

Awesome post Sonic
Bama, I would pinch the brake controller as soon as I noticed it swaying, then slow it down, pull over as soon as it is safe to do so and look at readjusting what storage you have and in what locations.
Sonic's videos are spot on

[Retired Copper]

I think the tires will help at highway speeds along with balancing. I went from china bombs load range c to goodyear endurance load range d, Don`t have but about a thousand miles on them but an almost 800 mile round trip put on them; they seem to track well and they still are maintaining air pressure well after setting for about 3 weeks. All the things I have done sure made that trip the most enjoyable and stress free tow todate.

[KSH]

Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.

[BamaRam]

Awesome post Sonic
Bama, I would pinch the brake controller as soon as I noticed it swaying, then slow it down, pull over as soon as it is safe to do so and look at readjusting what storage you have and in what locations.
Sonic's videos are spot on


I honestly appreciate your input but I think you misunderstand what I perceive to be the problem. It's just a wiggle that draws the truck to slightly to the the left. I would need to keep my hand on the controller at all times.



Controllable but uncomfortable. It keeps me busy looking for trucks.

[JRTJH]

Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.

[BamaRam]

I think the tires will help at highway speeds along with balancing. I went from china bombs load range c to goodyear endurance load range d, Don`t have but about a thousand miles on them but an almost 800 mile round trip put on them; they seem to track well and they still are maintaining air pressure well after setting for about 3 weeks. All the things I have done sure made that trip the most enjoyable and stress free tow todate.


I am planning to get a set of Carlisles before the trip to Colorado in July. I don't relish the thought of driving 4500 miles looking in my mirrors for trucks. Thank you for your input.

[Old soldier]

Sway is just a fact of life in a travel trailer. Even with sway control bars. You learn to live with it. The new ford f250 claims to negate sway through the truck's computer and brake application. Thought it was maketing BS. It’s NOT! Our last trip with our Cougar I left off the sway bar to check it out. Trailer did not sway! LASTED A FOUR MONTH WINTER TRIP WITH NO SWAY. Bought a Montana 5th wheel to escape sway, but that was money wasted. Guy below who said to pinch your brake controller was spot on. Never stomp on your brake pedal. You can increase sway to crash and burn. Use TT brakes to control the sway.

[Northofu1]

Gotcha, LOL, i forgot to read your post.
My Bad :)

[Northofu1]

Thanks Old soldier, some redemption. :)

[BamaRam]

I understand the trailer brake concept for those "oh crap" moments. This more like a bunch of "that's annoying" moments.

[Retired Copper]

All I can offer is what I have experience. Long story as short as I can, picked up new travel trailer at dealer. Was late on a Saturday after noon and was appx. 90 miles back home. Pulled out and truck seem to handle the empty trailer fine. TV was a 1/2 ton with 7800 max tow rating with the the factory tow package. Got on a bridge on I10 And two semi`s few pass me and the sway control on tv kicked in. That my fellow campers is a pucker moment; but the truck did it`s thing and made it home without further incident. I got rid of the tires and got load rated e tires and replace the shocks to 5100`s Bilsteins. Adjust the e2 hitch and was out again in about 2 weeks. It helped a lot and for most it would probably work; but the trailer would move a lot by the bow wave John Brought up. Still not happy just did not feel anywhere near solid enough. Bought an E4 not that was an improvement I could feel the tow just felt so much tighter and the next trip was kind of what I was looking for; but the closer I got to 65mph I felt the trailer move more. Upgraded the tires and balance them, then had a chance on a F250 come and I bought it. Now pulls and acts like I want it too.

[JRTJH]

BamaRam,

If you plan to head west on I-70, as soon as you get into the open plains in Kansas, you're going to face sidewinds/headwinds that will buffet your rig. There's just no way to avoid "fighting the wheel". About all you can do is load your trailer "nose heavy" (10-15% tongue weight) and install tires/sway control as best you can. You're going to have sway, you're going to "fight it" and you're going to be "whipped at the end of the day" with any trailer.

Years ago we lived in Denver and would make the trip "back home" to visit family every summer. We made the I-70 Kansas trip first in a VW campmobile. HORRIBLE !!! Then with a 3/4 ton truck/cab-over camper. HORRIBLE !!! Then with the same truck and a 20' Jayco travel trailer. HORRIBLE !!! Then with the same truck and a 26' Airstream. HORRIBLE (but better) !!!

Two years ago we made the trip with our current rig, the first time towing a fifth wheel across Kansas. There were times when the truck was "pointed left" and times when the truck was "pointed right" but seldom was the truck "pointed west".... Every time we went under an overpass, we moved a "quarter lane" opposite the sidewind direction.

Kansas is about the only place I'd prefer the 4MPG headwind towing over the constant 40MPH sidewind.

Is it impossible? Nope, people do it every day. Some with the most expensive $3000 hitch available, some with a bumper hitch and no sway control. You won't eliminate the crosswind problem with any hitch, all you can do is reduce the tow vehicle/trailer fighting each other. You're going to have to cope with the sidewinds pushing you into the adjoining lane with any rig, from a million dollar motorhome (no sway at all) to the rig you currently have.

Almost any "good 4 point sway control hitch" (from any brand) set up properly towing a properly loaded trailer will reduce the sway. You're not going to eliminate the "sidewind buffeting" that will push your rig. That affects every tall vehicle and every short vehicle. Have you ever seen a motorcycle rider pass you, leaning into the crosswind? If the wind is strong enough, the cycle rider may be "almost laying down" to stay on the highway. Since you can't "lean your trailer into the wind" all you can do is point the truck in the direction that keeps you moving straight ahead. Then, look out for that overpass where there's no wind or look out for that truck that passes you and blocks the wind. You'll "hit the side of the truck or change lanes" when the wind "suddenly stops".... That makes for "one tired driver" at the end of the day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have an adequate tow vehicle that's capable of towing your trailer. You can spend thousands of dollars and do the best you can to prepare, but you're still going to "fight it" across Kansas and eastern Colorado. Some resort to driving at night, when the winds die down rather than push on during the day. I wouldn't spend a lot of money to avoid the unavoidable. Make sure your rig is safe, properly maintained, properly set up and enjoy the best trip of your life. If you have problems with sidewinds, just rearrange your schedule for those couple of days and drive at night.

[KSH]

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.Agreed, but everything else counteracts the sway from my understanding, the propride handles it very differently by changing the pivot point.

[JRTJH]

Agreed, but everything else counteracts the sway from my understanding, the propride handles it very differently by changing the pivot point.

It does, but putting a $3500/250 pound ProPride hitch on a 3/4 ton truck towing a 27' travel trailer is akin to going squirrel hunting with a 105mm howitzer. It'll kill the game, but at what cost and what benefit???

There's just no need for that kind of hitch for most people who tow rigs with adequate tow vehicles. I say that, knowing that ProPride and Hensley's advertising departments will disagree...... Their motivation is to sell hitches and make money, mine is to offer suggestions on how to attain "reasonable, safe towing" without spending more for the hitch than the tow vehicle is worth......

Understand, that towing with a ProPride won't stop you from being pushed into the next lane by a strong crosswind or bow wave from a truck, it'll just keep you "in a straight line" while you move over..... Look at any large, flat sided motorhome (with no pivot point) and you'll see that vehicle also is affected by crosswinds.... No hitch involved at all and they move over just like all other flat sided rigs....

[busterbrown]

Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.

Or a Hensley. Both are sway "elimination" hitches. The investment is steep at first but worth it in the long run.

[Retired Copper]

You can try whatever you wish all they do; Hensley and Pro Pride, is make a trailer tow like a fifth wheel from all I have read. Having towed a fifth wheel several times you still get the bow wave or cross wind effect. The e4 and the trailer I am pulling I really can`t tell much difference in the two; both tow great under normal towing conditions. I have never towed in the conditions John stated above nor would I really look forward doing it. If I was pulling or got caught out in stuff like that I would surely slow way down and let the rig`s feed back tell me what I needed to do.

[BamaRam]

Great input from all. Especially driving the Plains at night. I’m going to change trailer tires, check/adjust the hitch and go from there. I’m fairly certain the hitch is out because of the wear pattern on the leading edge of the wear pads. I have to tow to a level (and preferably shady) spot to check it.

[JRTJH]

I'd think with your rig you'll be fine within the limitations of "being reasonable about what you expect".... Go with what you have and the new tires if they are already planned, but as for spending lots on "improvements" without knowing if you even need them.... Probably not the wisest way to spend money....

As for setup, late afternoon, on the edge of the WalMart parking lot with a good yardstick and a cooler of something cold and wet.... Better yet, if there's a Sonic next door, a Route 44 Cherry Limeade and a folding lawn chair so you can take a break to "contemplate" your measurements.....

[slow]

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.

Late response: But the TT and TV get nudged as one, much like a TV on its own which we are all conditioned to.

Looks like you addressed this in a later post.

[KSH]

Or a Hensley. Both are sway "elimination" hitches. The investment is steep at first but worth it in the long run.I think my propride was around $1,250, military discount. Support was great from them, i can even text the owner when i had questions. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway, just a satisfied customer.

[sourdough]

BamaRam

I've read this thread twice and I still have some concerns about what we're talking about. Pulling the bumper pull you have 2 primary types of movement; the "push" coming from winds or vehicles that push the bow wave of air and the "sway" which is when the trailer wants to start moving back and forth forcing the driver to try to compensate.

Push is just there, it's not going to go away and you are going to feel it. You can minimize it but it won't go away. Sway can be greatly controlled to eliminated depending on the type of attachment you have at the TV.

In your case I think you may be talking about sway. Your trailer is almost 36' long. You have a short bed truck. You have a 2 point friction hitch. I don't see how the hitch is adequate. I've pulled trailers (much smaller than my current trailer) with a 2 point friction hitch and they leave a lot to be desired when it comes to controlling sway. I currently use the Equalizer 4 point with my trailer (about 37') and 2500 HD 4x4. I get some push but I don't worry about it or watch for upcoming semis because it is so minimal. I don't have sway. I HAVE had it twitch in West TX winds when it's blowing 30-40 mph in one direction then suddenly whips and hits you from the opposite. Those make me put both hands on the wheel but they are very infrequent.

You said you have LRE tires on the truck. I'm assuming they're 80psi. Replacing the tires on the trailer might help if you go up a load range and get stiffer sidewalls. Do you have LRD tires on it now? If so, going to the Carlisle HD LRE is a huge difference. There was no comparison in the weight and stiffness between the Trailer Kings and the new Carlisles. They make the trailer ride much more stable. Also, looking at the weight of your trailer, if you have LRD tires, IMO they are already overloaded and need to be replaced regardless with the LRE. I don't think the new tires did much for any sway and I'm afraid they won't do much for you either - hopefully they will, but I have my doubts.

The primary driver of sway is the trailer. How it affects YOU is how the truck handles it. You have new tires and new shocks. What about springs? The truck is about 14 years old with the potential of carrying well over 1000 lbs. on the back of the truck at the hitch. They need to be in REALLY good shape for them not to be affected by the actions of the trailer. How has the truck been used in its life? For work? Carrying loads? Those things will play into how well the springs have held up.

You said you're worried about when to give up trying to fix "the problem". I would say....when it's fixed. Without some experience I know that is a large order. So, let me say it this way;

Prior to this truck I was pulling with a new Ram 1500 decked out for towing. I was in exactly the position you describe; constantly watching for semis or fast moving cars, hands on the wheel gripped so tight you could see fingerprints, constantly correcting for what seemed like a zillion little twitches, swerves etc. etc. I HATED to go anywhere towing. I loved camping but dreaded the drive so much. What fixed it? The new 2500 HD. Still have the same Equalizer 4 point and it's adjusted where it needs to be. Same trailer loaded just as it was. I LOVE taking off and towing now. No white knuckles. No watching every mirror every second dreading something to come my way. No constant adjusting. I can drive all day long with one hand (I don't generally unless my hands need to take a break).

With all that said, my answer would be to stop trying to "fix" it when you reach the point I have. You can try to adjust the E2 to the perfect setting and see if that helps but I don't think you will ever control that big of a trailer with that hitch - especially when you hit windy country. If that fails I would sell the E2 and put on the E4. If that still doesn't work I would replace the springs (or springs first then hitch).

I know it's easy for me to point out ways for you to spend your time and money but towing isn't, and should not be, a nightmare. To me it says something is out of whack and needs to be fixed. You have a new rig and are new to towing; I wish you the very best of luck in getting it sorted out. As you try things and they do or don't work please post back and maybe someone can help.

[BamaRam]

Sourdough I thank you for your thoughts and suggestions. My truck has new front springs. Replaced them because they were sagging under the weight of the Cummins. The truck has not been worked since bought it at 41k miles. I did note when I bought it that the receiver had not been used. And I did a visual and pry bar inspection of the rear springs and no wear is evident. Also inspected every bushing on it. It has 104k on it now.

The tires are inflated at 50 front, 70 rear. I set them by the truck manufacturer specs for the tires that are on the truck. The max inflation for the tire is 80 and I have considered taking them up to the max. But from my reading on the subject it is recommended to use the vehicle manufacturer inflation. Maybe I’ll ask around on the Ram forums.

And the difference between push and sway is duly noted.

Thanks again.

[sourdough]

You might see what the difference is. The new 2500 specs are 65 front and 80 rear. I don't know what precipitated that but running the tire at 80 psi vs 70 will make virtually no difference in tire wear (you can always carry a depth gauge to keep an eye on them) but it might make a difference in the towing experience.

[busterbrown]

I think my propride was around $1,250, military discount. Support was great from them, i can even text the owner when i had questions. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway, just a satisfied customer.

That's better pricing than what had with my Hensley. Paid $1899 OTD for a reconditioned hitch. Looked brand new and has the same lifetime warranty for all the components. Still looks new at the start of our 3rd season.

For me, the guarantee for a "sway-less" towing experience sold me. Didn't want to have another $600 invested in sway "control". The Blue Ox Sway Pro was already money lost. YMMV.

I, too, am beyond satisfied with my investment.

[KSH]

Just went to their website. Maybe i payed 2200$, whatever it was when i had my 1500 ram eco diesel it made the world of difference with sway from every semi that passed me. On my new 2500 it works even better but that's probably because the truck weighs more than the trailer.

[raddad73]

to the OP question.

I find this to be normal. I pull a 37 foot bumper pull 10500lbs.. i do feel a slight pull when big rigs or even large panel vans pass me. I anticipate and adjust when this happens but i am not worried out it.. so once again, i bleive this to be normal

[Scott&Shelley]

IMHO as long as it is swaying together as one unit ,thats just part of the game. It is when they start moving independent of each other when its bad. I pull a 36 ft toy hauler with a 8.1 2500 sunurban and I have had it be a white knuckled Drive home.
The next time loaded the trailer different and as the big trucks come by it just moves us together.
When it is really windy I fill the fresh water tank up. The thought behind it is , to add more weight down low. I think it helps in MO.

[bfisher003]

We tow a 31' overall, ~6,500 lb (trip loaded) travel trailer with a 2013 F150 Platinum Screw 4x4 SB 3.5 Ecoboost with Max Tow, 3.73 EL rear using a Blue Ox Sway Pro. We get a little bit of the push pull if a semi really blows by us. It's not a real big deal and we have used this setup for 30,000 miles, including a trip to Alaska. I think it is probably normal, with the 1/2 ton trucks. I am not running so-called China bomb tires and my tires are balanced. You should not need to manually use your brake controller to correct it unless it should happen to create a serious sway event. I have never needed to use it. I do not really consider the push pull effect a sway event.

BTW, we also used to live in Colorado and make the trip on I-70 frequently, so I am well aware of the crosswinds a previous poster mentioned; however, I have never felt beat up from them unless they get really serious, strong gusts. The best thing is to simply get off the highway and wait it out, but that's not too feasible sometimes, so next best is to slow down.

[BadmanRick]

I have a Premier 19FBPR and when new we towed it with a Toyota 4Runner. I had a similar problem when trucks passes me at high speed. As the truck went by it would suck us closers. My trailer was properly balanced and has the proper weight distribution hitch and a friction anti sway bar.
The Problem was the Toyota 4Runner. The short wheel base was not stable enough.
My solution was a Toyota 4x4 TUNDRA. Longer wheelbase, lots more weight and power. No problem since.
Hope this helps.

[RK1978]

I found one other variable for sensitivity to crosswinds that I don't think has been mentioned-your truck tires. We had a tread separation occur in I40 east of Groom Texas at highway speed (in the dark). I was able to limp it in to the tire business in Groom and put 2 new rear tires on truck, same rating as stock (LR E I believe). After the new tires were installed, the truck was MORE sensitive to sidewinds than before. Driving across west Texas in a 40 mph side wind duststorm was challenging, but not as bad as it was for some of the other vehicles I saw. I am not a tire engineer and do not know why the truck is more sensitive, the tires were similar to what it had except lots more tread.
2007 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins, 2008 26' Hideout

[BamaRam]

I appreciate everyone's input. Here's the plan. Carlisle HD LRE trailer tires. Check/Adjust hitch, have the axles weighed while loaded and balance weight / adjust pressures accordingly. I know it's better to weigh the wheels individually but I cant find a those type scales. Too bad I don't hang around aircraft maintenance facilities anymore. :ermm: Cat scales are just down the road.

[BamaRam]

Well I'm in Colorado and have some things to report.

I have new Carlisle HD LREs on the trailer.

When I checked the hitch (in a parking lot in town) before the trip I found that the hitch was lifting the back of the truck higher than the unloaded height. I found that the unloaded ball was two 1.5 holes higher than the trailer tongue when the trailer was level. So i lowered it one hole. Then it started raining so i towed it home and called it good.

I couldn't tell a lot of difference in the push-pull of the trucks but Tennessee in thunderstorms was scary. Got in a strong crosswind going down hill and had to get on the trailer brake to straighten out. On my first over-night I lowered the L-brackets down one hole to the lowest setting.

It towed a lot better with very little push-pull from the trucks but the was no discernible cross wind.

I didn't unhook on the 3rd stop and was looking at the rig sitting in a level spot. That's when I realized the bars weren't parallel to the trailer frame so I added a washer. It only had 4 installed.

Kansas was good to me. No wind that day. I was a able to get from Topeka to Goodland running 65mph with very little push-pull from trucks.

Then eastern Colorado happened. Bad crosswind causing sway down hills. As long as i was pulling a hill it was okay. It was 50mph all the way.

So since it's downhill all the way back to Alabama I need to figure this out.

Couple of things i noticed is that the trailer and truck are not level with each other (about an inch) when i look over that cab of the truck at the pump. And one bar has more tension than the other when i put the bars onto the L-bracket. I'm wondering if it's because i run with no fresh water in the tank.

I also noticed (in the parking lot at home) that when the trailer is level in pitch on flat pavement, one frame rail is about 3/4" higher than the other.

Would the manufacturer build roll into the trailer expecting me to haul a full tank of fresh water? The label says the CCC is with a full tank.

i know I'm stumbling through this and I came close to pulling into an RV dealer to have them check my rig. Then I remembered it was a dealer who set it up to begin with.

What do y'all think?

[sourdough]

Bama, it sure sounds like the hitch setup to me. And no, I don't think Keystone built a "roll" into the frame in the anticipation that you would fill the tanks. Your truck should be plenty for it IF; you have good shocks, good tires etc. I did not reread the thread but, do you have the manual for your hitch? Have you gone thru it exactly like they say? If your bars are different on each side something is wrong IMO. I don't like strong side winds (35-40 mph) but they do nothing for the driving except keep a strong force from one side and I compensate at the wheel...I don't like it when I hit something (wind row) that stops the wind force and everything just "lets go".

[BamaRam]

do you have the manual for your hitch? Have you gone thru it exactly like they say?

Yes i have the manual and when I went through exactly as it says, it said something like "results may vary". Not sure if I'm there yet because i was rained out. I cant stop pulling and camping long enough to check it again. :)

[tim5055]

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.A side wind is always going to push the rig sideways. The difference is that the ProPride and the older design Hensley Arrow (both designed by Jim Hensley) project the pivot point forward to the rear axle of the tow vehicle. They both bolt over and block out the conventional ball and the hitch becomes the pivot. This projected pivot point give the stability of a fifth wheel rig.

I have several thousand miles on my ProPride 3P and have never had any sway. On my last trip back form Orlando there were extreme side winds the entire length of Florida. My F-250 and Coachmen tracked as one single unit the entire time.

They are well worth the money.

[JRTJH]

A side wind is always going to push the rig sideways. The difference is that the ProPride and the older design Hensley Arrow (both designed by Jim Hensley) project the pivot point forward to the rear axle of the tow vehicle. They both bolt over and block out the conventional ball and the hitch becomes the pivot. This projected pivot point give the stability of a fifth wheel rig.

I have several thousand miles on my ProPride 3P and have never had any sway. On my last trip back form Orlando there were extreme side winds the entire length of Florida. My F-250 and Coachmen tracked as one single unit the entire time.

They are well worth the money.

I'm glad the hitch you have works for you. It's ONE solution to a problem, but certainly not the ONLY solution.

While you're advocating your hitch, would you explain how a motorhome (with no articulation or hitch) is affected by side winds and bow wave forces and your rig isn't? Even on my motorcycle, I'm affected by side winds (and need to lean into the wind to stay in position on the roadway. It's fun <not really> when going under overpasses where the side wind isn't present. Bow waves from approaching trucks affect me when in my truck (towing or not) and certainly affect me when riding my cycle. In fact, in some situations, the bow wave from an 18 wheeler will literally lift the helmet on my head, pulling on the chin strap which is all that keeps it from being ripped off. How is it that your hitch stops that kind of force? I've never had that explained, maybe you can offer an explanation ???

[Gegrad]

A side wind is always going to push the rig sideways. The difference is that the ProPride and the older design Hensley Arrow (both designed by Jim Hensley) project the pivot point forward to the rear axle of the tow vehicle. They both bolt over and block out the conventional ball and the hitch becomes the pivot. This projected pivot point give the stability of a fifth wheel rig.

I have several thousand miles on my ProPride 3P and have never had any sway. On my last trip back form Orlando there were extreme side winds the entire length of Florida. My F-250 and Coachmen tracked as one single unit the entire time.

They are well worth the money.

Cool story. Guess what? I haven't had any sway with my Husky Centerline 4pt sway control hitch either. So to summarize, you haven't had any sway; I haven't had any sway. The only difference? I have an extra $1000 in my wallet to spend on camping! :lol::lol:

[KSH]

Why attack him, he's just stating his experience like the rest of us..

[tim5055]

Why attack him, he's just starting his experience like the rest of us..Yup, thanks. For some reason I seem to attract negative comments. It may be the way i talk/write, but I'm too old to change.

I can agree, maybe my hitch is overkill and a little overpriced. But I did a lot of research on sway before I moved up from pop-ups to the larger TT. The thing that pushed me over the top was pulling into a campground that was having an Airstream rally. If you watch, these are folks who tend to tow a longer trailer with a less than optimal tow vehicle. Yea, I'm painting with a wide brush here, but that is what it appears. I would say 2/3 of the people there were using a Hensley designed hitch. Walking around talking to them to a person anyone who had the hitch related that they had never encountered a sway situation with that hitch. Several of them told stories of having the same trailer and tow vehicle with other WD/antisway hitches and having extreme sway problems.

I have had sidewinds and semi's pass with my current set up. the difference is that with this hitch the wind blast of the passing semi can't start the rear of my trailer moving as it starts to pass. It forces the entire rig (truck & trailer) to move together as a single unit in a straight line.

Sway is one of those things in life that have many moving parts that can cause, suppress or eliminate it. In the end we just have to make decisions based on the safety of our families.

[sourdough]

Yup, thanks. For some reason I seem to attract negative comments. It may be the way i talk/write, but I'm too old to change.

I can agree, maybe my hitch is overkill and a little overpriced. But I did a lot of research on sway before I moved up from pop-ups to the larger TT. The thing that pushed me over the top was pulling into a campground that was having an Airstream rally. If you watch, these are folks who tend to tow a longer trailer with a less than optimal tow vehicle. Yea, I'm painting with a wide brush here, but that is what it appears. I would say 2/3 of the people there were using a Hensley designed hitch. Walking around talking to them to a person anyone who had the hitch related that they had never encountered a sway situation with that hitch. Several of them told stories of having the same trailer and tow vehicle with other WD/antisway hitches and having extreme sway problems.

I have had sidewinds and semi's pass with my current set up. the difference is that with this hitch the wind blast of the passing semi can't start the rear of my trailer moving as it starts to pass. It forces the entire rig (truck & trailer) to move together as a single unit in a straight line.

Sway is one of those things in life that have many moving parts that can cause, suppress or eliminate it. In the end we just have to make decisions based on the safety of our families.


I agree with what you are saying....but;

There are some on here that have a Hensley/ProPride for exactly the reasons you mention above, trying to compensate for an inadequate tow vehicle at some point. Because they accomplished that, I don't consider them the "best thing in the world for every application". Those folks paid a premium for the hitch to try to make up for the fact they skimped on the TV.

A properly equipped truck/hitch/trailer will perform exactly as the Hensley/Propride without spending the extra $$$. I think the rub comes when someone with those expensive hitches, bought for whatever reason, comes in and implies 1) if you don't have one yours can't be as good and 2) they are safer and those that bought them care more for their families than others (read your last sentence). That's simply not the case and in some instances could possibly cause a new owner to spend hundreds of dollars needlessly due to misinformation. Just my thoughts.

[Gegrad]

I agree with what you are saying....but;

A properly equipped truck/hitch/trailer will perform exactly as the Hensley/Propride without spending the extra $$$. I think the rub comes when someone with those expensive hitches, bought for whatever reason, comes in and implies 1) if you don't have one yours can't be as good and 2) they are safer and those that bought them care more for their families than others (read your last sentence). That's simply not the case and in some instances could possibly cause a new owner to spend hundreds of dollars needlessly due to misinformation. Just my thoughts.

Well said Danny, well said.

[Northofu1]

I wish there were places in the Toronto area (Other than MTO) to get my TT/TV weighed to figure this out. The problem in Ontario is if you weigh at the MTO truck inspection station and you're over, they pull it off road immediately until it weighs under. I don't think my set up is overweight, but now I'm scared lol

[JRTJH]

Northofu1

There are three CAT scales in Toronto, located near the airport. All of them are private scales, at truck stops, and not associated with any "official government function"... They are used by truckers to get their trucks weighed and then to decide either to "risk it" or to download cargo. None of their weights are reported to officials. You can go there and weigh your rig without fear.

The three CAT scales are located here:

Husky Truckstop
HWY 401 & Exit 346
Mississauga, ON L5R1B9


Flying J Travel Plaza
1400 Brittannia Road
Mississauga, ON l4W 1C8


BVD Mississauga
Highway 401 & Exit 346
Mississauga, ON L5T 2W5


If you are concerned with whether they will "report you" just call before you to to reassure yourself that you're "safe weighing to be safe"....

[cookinwitdiesel]

I have not hit the road yet with my new setup, but Camping World provided one of these:

https://www.campingworld.com/round-bar-weight-distribution-kit-1000-lb

As my WDH hitch setup. I upgraded the shank to a Curt 2.5" so I do not have to use the sleeve adapter with my truck. I know that I have a heavy TV (should end up about the same weight as the trailer when both are loaded) which helps, but the little friction bar seems like a dinky afterthought to me. Are they effective at all?

My dad has a 2007 3500HD DRW Duramax and doesn't even bother with the round bars when pulling the same trailer with his truck. He claims he never has sway problems. I do not think I am as bold as him, but also have zero experience so want to hear from you veterans :) I tend to err on the side of caution (already got Goodyear Endurance tires coming for the trailer).

Thanks!