Odd problem

[kjohn]

I took our 21RBS out to a rural spot about 12 miles away and stayed 2 nights. Second morning the batteries were pretyy much dead. Good indication need a couple new ones. Had to boost the batteries to get the canopy rolled in.


Now, the water pump won't cut in, nor will the propane water heater cut in. Fuses are good (for sure), water in the tank, and propane in one bottle. Everything else in the trailer that I tried seems to work.


I notice that the little red LED comes on when you pull some fuses, but it doesn't for all, including the water pump.


I haven't tested any leads yet, saved that for tomorrow. Does anybody have any ideas? It is still under warranty, but the dealer is 90 miles away. They give really good service, so I don't want to send them on a goose chase.


Edit: I do have it plugged in now and batteries show power.

[chuckster57]

I see you edited your post. Let it charge for 10 minutes and tell us what works.

[kjohn]

I see you edited your post. Let it charge for 10 minutes and tell us what works.


Yes, I added it as an afterthought. It has been charging now for about 4 hours. I am going back down to my shop to check it out. I'll get back to you. Thanks!

[chuckster57]

Just sitting in my chair watching wicked tuna...

[kjohn]

Just checked. Water pump and propane water heater won't start. Everything else that I tested works fine. :confused:

[kjohn]

Removed duplicate

[chuckster57]

Ok, one thing at a time.

Water heater: by chance is the electric side turned on? Water is hot?

Water pump: can you locate it? May be an in-line fuse.

[kjohn]

Turned the propane water heater off last night after a shower. I doubt if the water is still very hot tonight, but I'll check that angle tomorrow.


Oh yes, I can locate the water pump. :) Shouldn't be another fuse in line, but I'll check the socket at the panel to see if there is even any juice getting to it. I have a couple of line testers at the shop and one in the trailer.


I'll give everything a good check tomorrow.


Hello to another crusty old LEO. Retired from RCMP. :D

[chuckster57]

(Salute) I have seen inline water pump fuses. Having worked on these wonders for a couple of days has taught me to rule out the easy stuff first.

[flybouy]

Just a thought but sounds like the battery was run to a very low voltage. Any 12 v load will draw considerably higher amperage when operated at a lower voltage (Ohm's Law). I would suggest checking each 12 v fuse with a multimeter for continuity, or if you have a t12 v test light test each side of the fuse as the light should illuminate on either side of the fuse when it's in the fuse holder, that is of course if you can reach each side of the fuse while connected. As Chuckster stated, anything is possible so if you can get to the pump leads check for voltage at the pump.

[kjohn]

Checked everything over this morning. No workee. I'll call the dealer after lunch.


Water is cool, propane filled both bottles, batteries lots of power, won't work either shore or boon. Everything else seems to work.

[chuckster57]

So at this point only the LP side of the water heater isn’t working?

When you turn the switch on, does it even try to spark?

[wbdvt]

I have a 21RBS and have not seen that problem. If the water heater works on AC but not on the LP, I think that points to a DC problem. Same with the water pump. Now this may seem very obvious but on the black control panel that gives the tank levels and battery levels are 3 switches.
One switch is for turning on the water pump. Is that on?
Another switch is for the hot water heater to run on LP gas. Is that on?
The last switch is for the hot water heater to run on AC? Is that off is not on AC?

[kjohn]

That's right. The 110V side works. So does everything else. The dealer roving repair man is stopping by tomorrow afternoon to have a gander. He will be passing by, so no special trip for something "really simple, we all know that", quote the fellow on the phone who initially tried to figure out the problem.

[chuckster57]

I’ll be curious to see what he finds. Maybe a fuse on the control board (certain models) or a bad board.

[kjohn]

I'll be sure to post the diagnosis. :)

[kjohn]

Okay, here we go! The roving troubleshooter arrived this evening. Nice young fellow who told me he loved his job! :)
Pulled the cover off the water heater compartment outside, took a couple of other covers off in the compartment, all good there.


He goes inside the trailer, gives the little rocker switches a couple of shots. Hmm. No light comes on. He pried the cover off, took the screws out that hold the little box to the wall, pulls the tangle of wires out of the wall - you guessed it! - a fuse holder. Cheesy 5 amp fuse is toast. Puts in a new fuse, water pump and propane water heater both work.


He just shakes his head and wonders out loud why they would put a fuse there, then stuff it into the wall where it may never be seen again - until it blows.


Back in business and a wee bit more educated on the magical workings of a travel trailer! :)

[kjohn]

Ok, one thing at a time.

Water heater: by chance is the electric side turned on? Water is hot?

Water pump: can you locate it? May be an in-line fuse.


Chuckster57 wins the prize!!:bow:

[JRTJH]

GOOD DEAL !!! Well, crazy deal, but good outcome. Thanks for letting us know what the tech found... All of us learned a little bit more about how Keystone "hides" stuff.... Appreciate your post detailing the results....

[kjohn]

The fellow said that he has learned from his troubleshooting, that anytime he finds wiring to a box or panel in a wall, to pull the wiring out of the wall. This time it definitely paid off.


This problem could have been avoided by a simple little sticker on or near the switch box advising of a fuse behind it. The 5 amp fuse is too fragile.

[sourdough]

This is another excellent example of why we all have to just pull crap out to figure out what is going on in our RV. No set plans, layouts, schematics....Ahh! the joy of RV ownership!!!

[kjohn]

The "owner manual" package that comes with a new trailer is a dog's breakfast. Umpteen suppliers, with umpteen possible models of each item.

[Leon54173]

Really appreciate this information/resolution - I'll know what to look for if we ever run into similar problems with our 21RBS.

[larryflew]

Since a TON of the parts are made by Lippert Industries check out their free app on their web sight. Saved me several times and has a LOT of detail. https://www.lci1.com/mylci

[Triple GGG]

Since a TON of the parts are made by Lippert Industries check out their free app on their web sight. Saved me several times and has a LOT of detail. https://www.lci1.com/mylciThanks for this info.

[johnlewis]

Once you get this figured out, replace all interior bulbs with LED's, if you haven't done this yet. We found it makes a huge difference in battery life (we have only 1 battery). Research on internet will show you the best types to buy, and best prices.

[SkiSmuggs]

And if you have only one battery, you might as well replace that puny Grp 24 with a Grp 27, 29 or 31 for much longer life.

[mikec557]

... He pried the cover off, took the screws out that hold the little box to the wall, pulls the tangle of wires out of the wall - you guessed it! - a fuse holder. Cheesy 5 amp fuse is toast. Puts in a new fuse, water pump and propane water heater both work...



Wouldn't it be better to hard-wire that 5amp fuse out of the wiring? Wouldn't this be safe to do since there is a fuse in the fuse panel, such that this 5 amp fuse is simply redundant?

[kjohn]

Wouldn't it be better to hard-wire that 5amp fuse out of the wiring? Wouldn't this be safe to do since there is a fuse in the fuse panel, such that this 5 amp fuse is simply redundant?


Well, there is a fuse there, and it blew. The tech said it was too fragile and put in a 10 amp. Now that I know the secret location of the errant fuse, and maybe some other locations, I can live with a fuse.


It does make you wonder why they would put a fuse in the back of the panel with no indication that a fuse is there. :confused:


I work Spring and Fall on a big farm. We trailer people needn't feel that we are being picked on. Some of the dillies that come up on those big machines can be somewhat puzzling, to put it mildly. :)