Adding a second air conditioner??

[scottm1]

I have a 2010 Keystone Laredo 318RL, and was wondering if anyone here knows if these come prewired from the factory to add a second a/c unit? I haven't had time to remove trim or the breaker box cover to see for myself yet because we are in the middle of a camping trip, but in this mid west sweltering summer heat, the single 15,000 btu a//c just isn't keeping up. As soon as I get home from this trip, a second a/c unit is going over my bedroom. I was just wondering if I was going to have to wire this thing myself and try to conceal the wiring or if it has already been done for me. I have talked to some people that said their dealer told them they all come from the factory prewired, and some tell me that it was an option. I don't know which is correct.

Also, after I installl this a/c unit I was wondering what all I have to do to change this camper over to 50 amps. Do I only need to put on a 50 amp cord and change my 30 amp main breaker to a 50, or do I have to change out the entire breaker box? I am hoping someone here has already been through this that could fill me in on the details.

[Bob Landry]

To change over to 50A, the wire from the power inlet to the converter has to be upgraded to 6ga. You currently have 10ga and it's not rated for 50A. As far as the converter, I don't know if you would have to replace the converter or if the existing one can be used by replacing the dual 30A breakers with 50A ones. I'm not an expert on converters.The outputs from the converter are going to remain the same, current wise, so the only concern there is the input side.
Without upgrading to 50A, it's umlikely you will be able to run both units at the same time.
Another possibility, and it gets discussed often, is installing a dedicated 20A inlet and using that to power a second AC, that would allow you to run both and your 30A setup would be unaffected by coffee pot, microwave, water heater, etc.
To find out if you are prewired for a second unit, a call to Keystone will yield better information that going by heresay on a discussion forum. The other part of the question is, is the roof braced for a second unit and where. This is "Need to know" stuff.

[hankpage]

I have a 2010 Keystone Laredo 318RL,

Also, after I installl this a/c unit I was wondering what all I have to do to change this camper over to 50 amps. Do I only need to put on a 50 amp cord and change my 30 amp main breaker to a 50, or do I have to change out the entire breaker box? I am hoping someone here has already been through this that could fill me in on the details.

I would think that if your trailer was pre-wired for a second A/C that you would already have 50amp panel to feed it. JM2¢, Hank

[campingcpl]

Like Hank said if you are prewired for a secound A/C then you would already have a 50 amp service. If you are going to convert to a 50 amp service like others have said you will have to change the 10 ga. wire that goes from your plug to your converter (if you have a detachable power cord) to 6 ga. and you would also have to change out the power cord to a 50 amp cord. Also you will have to change out the converter to a 50 amp converter. Most of your factory 30 amp converters are only rated for a max of 45 amp where the 50 amp converter is rated to 65 amp. Plus a 30 amp breaker box probably wouldn't have any extra post to add another breaker to where a 50 amp breaker box will give you more expandability.

I hope this helps you out. Good luck!

[scottm1]

I would think that if your trailer was pre-wired for a second A/C that you would already have 50amp panel to feed it. JM2¢, Hank

That is what I thought as well.

[KanTC]

Welcome to the forum scottm1,

Your Laredo should already have the (factory installed) 'Bigger is Better' Pkg...

Bigger is Better Package (310, 316, 318, 321, 326)*
8 cubic foot refrigerator
12 gallon gas/electric DSI hot water heater
16”-8 lug aluminum wheels
6,000lb axles
50 AMP service
Wire and frame for 2nd A/C
*Mandatory Package

http://www.keystonerv.com/media2/documents/LaredoBrochure_0810_web.pdf


As a side note: when adding a 2nd A/C unit, it will not be "ducted".


Hope this helps... and Happy Trails to you & yours,
Terri (the co-pilot) :)

[Me.Bikes.Dogs]

They made it real easy in my 300MP. A junction box next to the ceiling fresh air vent was labeled for the second A/C, even included the max amperage. Sweet. Actually having it installed as we speak.

[mhs4771]

Hold the Power Cable here, there is a BIG difference between 30 amp service and 50 amp service. 30 amp service supplies 110 Volts only, you have three wires, hot (110), neutral, and ground. 50 amp service is really 100 amps, with 220/240 Volts across the two hot leads. Four wires, L1 110 Volts, L2 110 Volts, Neutral, then Ground. To convert to a 50 amp system would involve running new wires from the rig input to the breaker box and possibly a new breaker box. Your onboard converter runs off 110 volts and supplies 12 DC to power your 12 volt lights, furnace blower, fridge ignitor, and provide 12 Volts to recharge your onboard batteries. The amps on the converter is just a measure of it's output. You could have a 50 amp rig with a 30 amp converter. My 50 amp rig has an 80 amp converter, it just means the converter is capable of suppling 80 of 12 VDC current.

[hankpage]

Hold the Power Cable here, there is a BIG difference between 30 amp service and 50 amp service. 30 amp service supplies 110 Volts only, you have three wires, hot (110), neutral, and ground. 50 amp service is really 100 amps, with 220/240 Volts across the two hot leads. Four wires, L1 110 Volts, L2 110 Volts, Neutral, then Ground. To convert to a 50 amp system would involve running new wires from the rig input to the breaker box and possibly a new breaker box. Your onboard converter runs off 110 volts and supplies 12 DC to power your 12 volt lights, furnace blower, fridge ignitor, and provide 12 Volts to recharge your onboard batteries. The amps on the converter is just a measure of it's output. You could have a 50 amp rig with a 30 amp converter. My 50 amp rig has an 80 amp converter, it just means the converter is capable of suppling 80 of 12 VDC current.

This is true in residential service but I think you will find that in RV service you will have a 30amp feed and a 20amp feed (50amp) but at no point will you have 220/240 volts ac. JM2¢, Hank

Let me correct that: At no point in the trailer is 220/240v. used ....
The half round or U is the ground the one
directly below it is the WHITE or neutral
and the other two black wires are 180
degrees out of phase with each other are
the HOT 120-volt. In reality you have
TWO 120 volt split service going into your
RV

[mhs4771]

Hank, you are half correct. You end up with two 50 amp 110 lines. Which make it possible to add a 220 appliance if you wire it correctly. I know several with Montanas that have added a 220 Dryer to there rig. Granted they can only use it when connected to a true 50 amp supply. The point I was trying to make, you don't just add a 50 amp plug and then plug your 30 rig into a 50 amp outlet or you might fry some things or a minimun hopefully just trip the service breaker on the pole. So again, on a 50 amp rig you do have 220 supplied to the internal breaker panel the same as you have in your stick house.

[scottm1]

Welcome to the forum scottm1,

Your Laredo should already have the (factory installed) 'Bigger is Better' Pkg...

Bigger is Better Package (310, 316, 318, 321, 326)*
8 cubic foot refrigerator
12 gallon gas/electric DSI hot water heater
16”-8 lug aluminum wheels
6,000lb axles
50 AMP service
Wire and frame for 2nd A/C
*Mandatory Package

http://www.keystonerv.com/media2/documents/LaredoBrochure_0810_web.pdf


As a side note: when adding a 2nd A/C unit, it will not be "ducted".


Hope this helps... and Happy Trails to you & yours,
Terri (the co-pilot) :)


Well I do have all of those things listed in the option list above.......except the 50 amp service wire. My camper has a 30 amp cord. I also do not have a box or plate on the ceiling next to the vent. I took the cover off of my breaker box this afternoon and I did not see a 12 ga romex in there loose that was not hooked to anything either. I believe from what I am seeing is my camper is NOT prewired for a second a/c unit.

[f350chief]

I also got a brochure that had the "Bigger is Better" package on it for my 316RL Laredo but it did not have it. I also have a 30 amp service instead of 50 amp. I was told that the brochure was printed after my camper was built and that is why it did not have these options. According to the sales rep I have all of the other options. I did notice this before I made the final decision to purchase the camper so I am good with it.

[KanTC]

I "spoke too soon" & apologize for that... I didn't consider the manufacturer date.

We looked at several Laredo models in 2009-2010 before making a decision, so I should have remembered that 50 amp service (& wire and framing for 2nd A/C) wasn't available until the 'Bigger is Better' Pkg was introduced for the new model year.

Duhhh... I'll blame it on the weather! :o

Here's the previous brochure
http://www.keystonerv.com/media2/documents/LA09_Brochure.pdf


Terri, the Chevy co-pilot :)

[scottm1]

Now that I have verified my unit is not prewired for the second a/c, I m thinking just wiring it independently and seperate of the existing 30 amp service of the camper and just run the second a/c off of the 20 amp outlet on the service pole with a second detachable cord. I am going to have to use a low profile unit to keep the front height below 13 feet, which is the door height of my shop where it is stored while not in use. Does anybody have any opinions on the different low profile units?

[mhs4771]

May not be the cleanest install, but if you go that route, what about a window unit or a free standing portable unit vented out a window? Either could be done for a fraction of the cost of a roof unit. A low profile unit will still add 6 to 9 inches to your height.
Just some options to consider

[scottm1]

May not be the cleanest install, but if you go that route, what about a window unit or a free standing portable unit vented out a window? Either could be done for a fraction of the cost of a roof unit. A low profile unit will still add 6 to 9 inches to your height.
Just some options to consider

I thought about the stand alone unit mounted and hidden inside my closet with the vent routed outside where I can just open my closet door on those extremely hot days when the main a/c can't keep up, but all of the reviews I have read on them seem to all claim the are not well made with people consistantly complaining of the vent tube flange breaking off. They also complain of them being extremely noisy. Does anyone use a stand alone unit that can give their opinion on them?

[hankpage]

I have to agree with the portable free-standing unit: Much cheaper, easier install even if vented through sidewall, much much quieter and efficient, if you sell it comes with you and best of all no increase in height.
The only drawback is loosing floor or wardrobe space. JM2¢, Hank

[Phil/Shirl805]

They made it real easy in my 300MP. A junction box next to the ceiling fresh air vent was labeled for the second A/C, even included the max amperage. Sweet. Actually having it installed as we speak.

Hey kent just wondering how the second A/C install went? Thinking of doing samething in Montana High Country 323. ( unit is pre wired and framed) Called dealer they want about $1500. Said they can hook in to duct work in cealing. Not sure about thermostat, didnt think to ask. Was hoping to talk to someone who has already tested the waters.

[jje1960]

I have to agree with the portable free-standing unit: Much cheaper, easier install even if vented through sidewall, much much quieter and efficient, if you sell it comes with you and best of all no increase in height.
The only drawback is loosing floor or wardrobe space. JM2¢, Hank

We have found that the portable was great. I had the portable from our TT, used to run it off the 1k Mitsubishi genset at the races and it sure worked out great on vacation in Myrtle Beach with our 5ver. We used it in the garage area, was like a fridge back there and had to turn it down. Will be using it on genset again (Boliy 3600) at Bristol next month, will cool the garage during the day and leave the windows / door open in the main cabin until night time. We try and stay to 30gal of fuel during the week at Bristol, don't like leaving during the trip down there for fuel, interrupts the time in the walmart 12' pool and brew time!

[Me.Bikes.Dogs]

I had a new Coleman-Mach 15,000 btu unit installed. Total cost was $850. I workkamp and the manager at the resort got me a fantastic price.

The unit takes the place of the crank air vent in the bedroom. It isn't ducted (it's my understanding a second unit rarely is) and the controls are right on the A/C unit, not connected to the thermostat. It has it's own thermostat so it turns itself on and off although the fan runs continuously. I leave it on during the day. I shut it off at night and just run a small fan in the bedroom. Tempurature here is over 100 every day. With one A/C it would get up to 85-88. With two, it doesn't get above 78! Luxury.

You can see the photos here (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=250976741580002&set=oa.235484979813870&type=1). Just click on the photo to cycle through them.

[scottm1]

I just found my old post here and thought I would update the post on my second a/c install in my bedroom that I did a year ago. I bought a Coleman Polar Cub 9,000. I installed it in the vent hole in the roof over my bed. It works fantastic. I just ran the wire across the ceiling trim, to the corner of the room, then down the wall to a seperate breaker box mounted in my basement with a 20 amp plug. When I need 2 a/c units, I just use a heavy 10 gauge extension cord and plug into the electrical pole at the camprground to the 20 amp receptacle next to the 30 amp main cord that I always use. So far I have not had any problems with this method and it kept me from having to rewire my camper with a 50 amp service. My camper will stay cool on even the hottest days. The only real issue I had doing the install was having to make a wedge to go between the roof of my camper and the a/c unit to level the a/c unit because the roof of my camper sloped down in the front............. like most all others. The Coleman installation manual says you cannot mount the a/c in a "front down" angle. It said the unit has to be installed level, or up to a 30 degrees nose up angle. I made the wedge out of wood, then after I got the angle correct, I covered the wooden wedge with several layers of fiberglass matting and resin with a lip/flange to make certain no water could get to the wood and rot it. And if the wood did get wet and rot, there is enough fiberglass layers there to suppport itself....meaning the wood just acts as something of shape until the fiberglass sets anyway. The install makes camping much more enjoyable knowing it doesn't matter how hot it gets, you can still stay cool inside. As mentioned above in other posts, the front a/c isn't ducted, but that's ok. My wife actually prefers the constant humming above her when she sleeps so we sometimes will run the front a/c only just for the soothing sound the a/c makes. Another good point about the smaller unit is that if I am travelling and need to stop somewhere like a Wal MArt just to catch some shut eye for the night, I can shut the bedroom door and run my front a/c on just one of my Honda 2000 generators instead of running both of them for the big 15,000 main unit. I haven't actually done this yet, but statistically one Honda 2000 will run the small a/c if it has a hard start capacitor kit on it. I just thought I would update this old post with how my second a/c is working out for me in case anyone else is considering doing the same thing.

[scottm1]

Oh, and another thing I will mention to anyone having problems with keeping their camper cool on really hot days. These flat panel tv's really put out a lot of heat from the backside. I would notice before I put my second a/c in my bedroom that it would get noticebly hotter in there after I turned on the tv. I found out that the heat coming from the back of the tv was incredible, and built up fast in a confined area. The TV in my living room does the same thing, so if you are trying to cool your RV on a hot day while watching 2 flat panel LCD TV's, you may just be fighting a battle you can't win. Anyway, I just thought I would share this information as well. The second a/c solved all of my problems.