the sad truth about keystone warranty

[cougarpelt]

before you pay, you have priority over all other customers and all the tech attention you need to find problems with the many many systems that are in your new "HOME" RV.
BUT AFTER YOU PAY, all problems are assumed to have been caused by you, the customer and your sales company and their techs have to "prove" that Keystone is liable for any repairs that are needed after the sale.
14 day after I paid, on my first use of RV, my wife noticed that the dining table was way out of level - the top of slide was against wall while the bottom was 2 1/2 inches away from wall resulting in a severe drooping of the slide. on the 16th day after reporting the problem a tech first saw it and did his analysis, with pictures to send to Keystone for THEIR APPROVAL to do warranty work to repair. SOMEHOW Keystone needed proof that I did not install the slide brackets in the wrong position AT THE FACTORY before they would pay Bama RV to repair. REALLY?? Now we wait 48 hours for someone at Keystone to agree that I didn't come in the factory and install the brackets incorrectly???? REALLY???
This just show how absurd Keystone Warranty policy is. The warranty policy is designed to avoid paying for anything they did wrong UNTIL the customer with the help of BAMA RV can prove that the problem was due to factory error.
NEW CUSTOMERS BEWARE: test EVERYTHING before you pay; there is almost no quality control in the manufacture of RVs. THE ONLY TESTING that is done before you pay is YOU and the techs at your sales company; YOU WILL FIND PROBLEMS and when you do you WILL LEARN the hard way how frustrating the so-called "warranty" that Keystone proudly displays on their RVs on the sales lot. IT IS UP TO YOU TO TEST THE SYSTEMS BEFORE YOU PAY!!!!

[chuckster57]

Sorry you feel that way, but I can assure you Keystone isn’t the only ones that make you jump through hoops. I hope you don’t have a Norcold refer and it quits working....just sayin.

How the issue is described and the supporting documentation is important, and even then the warranty person at the factory may have NO CLUE what your talking about. It may not be Keystone, but the person the tech is dealing with. It can be difficult sometimes to convey what your talking about without a bunch of pictures. BTDT.

I’m not trying to defend Keystone, but I’m trying to help you understand that the employee handling the claim may not “see” what your looking at or understand everything about every system in today’s RVs. What’s obvious to us techs isn’t to the guy/girl looking at pictures. That’s why it’s important to take lots of pics and write a detailed description.

[travelin texans]

You could delete "Keystone" from your comments & add any manufacturer/model/price you could think of & will find the exact same situation. Welcome to the rv business!
Sorry for your issues, hope all gets taken care of to your satisfaction.

[Pull Toy]

A big part of the problem, IMHO, is that enough "fly by night" dealers have tried to scam the manufacturers (not just Keystone) for bogus repairs. Ca-ching). Also, legit dealers are strapped for techs, and bay space to keep up with demand. That is part of the reason for July and August repair dates this early in the season. Also factories notoriously don't pay retail shop rates to the dealer!

Part two is the lack of consistency of the build. Build a truck... it only fits one way, with the only bolt that fits! Build a camper... give the guy a staple gun, some plumbing parts, and a basic concept, and over time (maybe) he'll figure it out. Then they change the floor plan, just to keep it interesting.

Part three is the first time owner with no clue, and no guidance, and no PDI (and maybe some mistakes setting up). Once you own it, it's your problem!

Part four are legitimate claims cutting into marginal corp. profits. (Mitigate, and stall)

Part five is no regional factory authorized rep to intervene and negotiate a claim, and assess errors. Quite common in the auto/truck industry.

Sometimes I wonder why we pay extra for the RVIA Certification?

Good Luck,

[sourdough]

I think I'm wondering why you're so upset.

You found a defect on day 14 (that should have been found on walk thru), on day 16 the tech looked at it and submitted information for warranty approval that would be in 48 hours?? What is wrong with that?

And, you are absolutely correct; if you don't find the defect before you take it off the lot you are going to have to provide a lot more info than if you didn't take it. Why? Well, after spending many hundreds of nights in hotels, condos etc. etc. I understand it. Many years ago I would never have said it, but these days, I can't believe the craziness that people do "just because". Defacing, breaking things for no reason. Couple that with the dealers that "fudge" as mentioned above and Keystone HAS to make sure what they are paying for is actually something they should pay for.

I'm not implying that you are the kind of person that would do anything like I mentioned, or that your current problem is any of your doing. I'm simply trying to point out the way Keystone looks at it (as would I). Hopefully you get it repaired and you're on the road in short order.

[Faponce88]

I just picked up my 240 URS and walked through it like I was buying a $500k house. Every screw that needed tightening every gap that wasn't right was corrected insight and my seller was glad to do it. This is my first camper but I have heard enough stories to be particular up front and get a warranty. I hope you get your table sorted and I have yet to find a camper that has had no issues.

[cougarpelt]

to add insult to injury, yesterday when I picked up the trailer from the dealer after repairs, I failed to notice that one of the tires was low; 13 miles later when I got home, it was completely ruined = $100. while removing the tire we found that the entire undercarriage was covered with rust! the paint installed during manufacturing is not sufficient to resist the salt sludge that this trailer was driven through between Dec when it as manufactured and March when it arrived at the dealer. both axels, springs and all the connections were covered with rust with less than half the paint remaining. I went ahead and repainted the undercarriage myself with Rustoleum and I will spray a layer of undercoating over that when it has dried. Fat chance I would have been successful getting that taken care of under warranty. At 70 years of age, I do not need the stress that dealing with Keystone warranty has been over these last weeks. You can lay all the blame you want on me, I don't care, maybe we have already evolved into a country where you shouldn't expect quality control for a $37,000 purchase. I am very disappointed with some of the comments I received from people who think, like keystone reps think, that these problems are no problem and mainly caused my me?? really?
I guess the best advice I can give a perspective buyer is: DO NOT BUY A KEYSTONE RV THAT WAS BUILT IN THE WINTER OR DRIVEN ON SALTED HIGHWAYS, UNLESS KEYSTONE/DEALER IS WILLING TO REPAIR THE CORROSION/RUST THAT RESULTS. AT THE VERY MINIMUM, THE MANUFACTURER SHOULD BEAR THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR DAMAGE(MISSING PAINT AND RUST) BY REPAINTING WITH SOME KIND OF UNDERCOATING. THE FACT THAT KEYSTONE DOES NOT APPLY AN EFFECTIVE UNDERCOATING FOR DELIVERING IN THE WINTER MONTHS AT LEAST IS A COST CUTTING POLICY THAT WILL COST THE CUSTOMER BIG TIME DOWN THE ROAD.

[notanlines]

Cougar “You can lay all the blame you want on me, I don't care.” I don’t think any of us are laying the blame on you. We do understand where you are coming from. The problem lies with manufacturing and sales. On occasion the customer is expecting too much for their mioney and THEY become the problem. Just keep on fixing the little things and hopefully the big things will go wrong over on the Heartland forum!

[cougarpelt]

found defect on first use; reported immediately; given and appointment 14 days out; 2 days after appointment, tech first looked at.

[ken56]

Why can there not be people like insurance adjusters for the RV dealers and warranty claims? I have gone through the same process with getting warranty work completed on my new last June Laredo. Pictures and begging from the dealer techs to get approval. Warranty issues should be between the dealer and the manufacturer anyway and the selling dealer should just fix the things that are wrong and then argue with the maker to pay for it. Not our problem, or it shouldn't be anyway.

[JRTJH]

Why can there not be people like insurance adjusters for the RV dealers and warranty claims?

The bottom line answer is "the bottom line". Hiring people on a national level (Keystone sells throughout the US and Canada) would cost a significant amount of money. Who's going to pay for them? Not the dealerships, not Keystone, are you willing to pay an extra $1000 added to the cost of your new RV, just in case you might have a warranty issue and want it "streamlined" ??? Most would answer, "Heck NO!!!"

[chuckster57]

Warranty issues should be between the dealer and the manufacturer anyway and the selling dealer should just fix the things that are wrong and then argue with the maker to pay for it. Not our problem, or it shouldn't be anyway.


Since the DEALER didn’t build it, why should the DEALER bear the cost of repair? What if Keystone or any other maker for that matter decides its not a defect and denies payment. How long would you expect that dealership to stay in business? Or how much longer would you think that (any) dealer would do ANY warranty work?

There are dealerships that SELL but DO NOT do warranty work on what they sell.

[Barbell]

It seems to me that any business that lets its product be delivered to a customer in less than perfect condition is liable to that customer to make it right IMMEDIATELY. So what if it comes from the factory in poor condition. Mr. Dealer, you should deal with the factory to correct those problems long before any customer touches that product. To suggest that the dealer has no responsibility to fix factory defects that it did not catch before it was sold is complete nonsense. The combination of crowded and crummy RV parks and sloppy factory work and dealers who only cash the checks will kill the golden RV goose sooner rather than later. AirBnb is already cutting into RVs and it will only get worse unless the industry wises up real fast.

[Pull Toy]

As already stated, a thorough PDI would pick up most, if not all, of the defects that show up in the first month.

Buyer beware is the law of the land! When we went to pick up our Alpine a few years ago, half way thru the delivery process, Jan and I went to lunch after giving the dealer a list of things to correct. It's amazing how much got done in that hour that we were gone. When we drove back onto the lot three techs were just finishing it up. After a second complete walk thru we signed the check, and took her home.

Good Luck,

[miaoreo]

Sorry you feel that way, but I can assure you Keystone isn’t the only ones that make you jump through hoops. I hope you don’t have a Norcold refer and it quits working....just sayin....


OMG my Norcold has quit now for the 2nd time!.... any help or advice... the dealer took 2 months to fix it the first time...

[chuckster57]

Norcold has a form that must be filled out COMPLETELY and you have to send a bunch of pics. Then you wait for further instructions. Last one had a failed cooling unit, no sign of any leaks but still took a week of jumping thru their hoops and finally a phone call to explain the tests. Very frustrating!!

[miaoreo]

I just got off the phone with a very pleasant lady in Norcold Cust Service. She took my model and serial number, looked it up and said Camping World of Lowell, Arkansas had NEVER contacted them about this unit. It wasn't even registered in their system. She registered it, took notes and gave me a list of three other service centers in the area to contact.
So essentially my problem was never fixed at all! even lied to me saying that my refrigerator had a recall which it does not... I now have service scheduled at a different dealer....

[chuckster57]

I hope the next place gets it fixed properly.

[miaoreo]

Well the gentleman I spoke to there... described several possible explanations and he would be the one working on it.. not some anonymous service tech, shielded by a "Service Writer" working the desk... so perhaps the smaller "Mom and Pop" type place does care about customer service... I hope.

[LuvsPalmTrees]

Don't bet on the Mom and Pops out there. We were hit buy a driver in October 2016. She took out the skirting and a little damage on the corner of the bump out. We took it to the dealer we purchased it from, had our insurance company all set to approve the work. November/December/January - the insurance company calls and asked if we took it in. We said - yes it has been there since early November. The dealer still had not called for the appraisal approval. February/March still nothing. We went to the RV show in our area, ran into the owner of the dealership that had our trailer. He hemmed and hawed and told us he was sick - okay you were sick - why can't someone else at your dealership handle this if you were so sick. When we called to find out why it has not been handled - nobody told us you were sick. All they said it the owner handles all insurance claims. So then the insurance company came down on him and said this is awful customer service. The appraiser went over and stood there and waited for the owner to write up everything, he approved it on the spot. We still did not get our trailer until May. November to May and the work was really done crappy. We learned our lesson. I had documented everything that went on with it through emails with the owners wife. When we picked it up they acted like nothing was wrong. No apology for taking so long. Nothing.

[miaoreo]

Wow the horror stories just don't end, do they? I guess it just shows how bad customer service has gotten, not only in the RV world but in all aspects of business...

[sourdough]

Wow the horror stories just don't end, do they? I guess it just shows how bad customer service has gotten, not only in the RV world but in all aspects of business...

It not only emphasizes how bad customer service has gotten, but, as is mentioned on the forum repeatedly, how very important it is to make sure you have a stand up dealer before you buy from them or take something in for service.

I know many folks prefer mom and pop dealerships, and, if you know them, or have done your research on them, they may be just stellar. But if they aren't, as the example above shows, you are at the complete mercy of one individual; so you better get it right the first time. I prefer a larger chain so that my options do not run out at the front desk.

[miaoreo]

It not only emphasizes how bad customer service has gotten, but, as is mentioned on the forum repeatedly, how very important it is to make sure you have a stand up dealer before you buy from them or take something in for service.

I know many folks prefer mom and pop dealerships, and, if you know them, or have done your research on them, they may be just stellar. But if they aren't, as the example above shows, you are at the complete mercy of one individual; so you better get it right the first time. I prefer a larger chain so that my options do not run out at the front desk.


Well that was my original issue! I went to Camping World, you don't get much larger than that! And they totally lied to me and didn't fix ANYTHING until I went in to pick up my unit, which they had told me was READY, and it Wasn't... Camping World of Lowell, Arkansas service dept is totally Incompetent! They NEVER returned my phone calls, They did NOT fix my refrigerator and they didn't fix anything until I went into the store and stood in front of the Service Manager and LOUDLY voiced my displeasure!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead::bangh ead:

[sourdough]

Yes, unfortunately I have to agree. There are good ones and bad ones both big and small.

[gearhead]

Find a Mom & Pop repair only shop that has been in business forever, that your neighbors use, that the owners work at, that is an authorized warranty shop for your broken components.
They are out there.

[ImTravis]

My biggest issue with Keystone warranty was when our front cap faded at about 2 years. We kept it covered in wintertime, so the second season we took it out, we noticed the fade. Reached out to our dealer, and sent pics. They reached out to Keystone, who denied it, because it was right at 2 years. We would've most likely reported sooner, had we not taken care of it, and put it under cover during the winter (which was approx 12 months out of 24). It was a known issue with 2013 and 2014 models. When I directly reached out and asked why I was being punished for taking care of my trailer, they stated that the warranty was from the date built, not date of purchase (as it was less than two years since purchase).
I'm hoping our new manufacturer will take care of any warranty issues, as any other issue we had with our trailer, I took care of myself (except the A/C recall, let CW take care of it for s).

[mhbell]

I have owned several New RV's over the last 40 plus years and will never buy another New RV of any kind. The only New RV that I bought and never had a problem was a 1998 National Tropi Cal Motor Home. Never had a problem with it in 8 years of ownership. Not even minor things. Never had to have any work done on it. Just routine maintenance. They don't build them like that anymore. Every new RV I have bought since Had problems, some minor and some major. The last new one I bought was a 2017 FR EVO Travel trailer. After 4 months I traded it off for a used 2016 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel. To many problems with the EVO. Never will I buy another new RV.
Mel

[Auggie Waterman]

I agree with you Cougar Pelt- you must check every little thing, be prepared to spend 2 hours at least on your walkthrough and if they won't connect water and sewer I'd be hesitant to buy from that dealer. AFter reading this I feel like canceling our six year extended warranty. Nothing too complicated in the trailer except maybe the fridge and AC.

Just because other brands/dealers suck is zero excuse for any brand to have a terrible or non-existent quality control.

[cougar high country 2013]

We have a grand design Soletude 5th wheel. Shortly after we had a leak under the bathroom FL when flushing black tank. Contacted GD. and they didn't hesitate to fix the problem we actually called a Mobile rv and they came to our site and took care of the issue. In the summer another issue came up and once again they didn't hesitate and problem resolved. Great customer service in my opinion.

[Bttravel]

I have to give kudos to my dealer, Byerly RV. They were able to get two things on two different occasions covered under warranty about 2 and 4 months out of coverage. I did document well with numerous photos, measurements, etc. They told me that's what made it easier to get them to cover it. It was a true defect and/or faulty part. Byerly is a family/employee owned operation that does a good job with a good staff.

[wifi_guy]

Aren’t your frustrations more dealer related? I mean you don’t ever work directly with Keystone.

[ctbruce]

Aren’t your frustrations more dealer related? I mean you don’t ever work directly with Keystone.Exactly this point is made often on the forum in multiple threads. You have to work through the dealer. The dealer has to do good documentation of the problem. Then the dealer has to fight for you. Working with them is imperative. A box of donuts dropped off randomly helps a lot. Trusting them but verifying their work is mandatory. It's like a tag team mud wrestling event. Uou and the dealer have yo work together.

[wiredgeorge]

Thorough PDI lasting two hours? If a buyer who is new to RVing (perhaps first or second purchase) goes through this process, is that person likely to spot all the issues if they don't know how things are supposed to be fitted or operate? Probably not; perhaps the newbie would be best encouraged to hire a mobile RV mechanic to accompany him through the walk through and explanation. Would it be a good idea for someone to develop a checklist of things to be checked during the PDI such as water heater bypass, manual slide-out operation, operation of the power converter, slide seal user maintenance... in other words, the things we often have new owners ask about on this forum. I have owned quite a few pull trailers and 5vers and find things on each I had no idea about. Since I buy older and used RVs, perhaps some of the things I find are age/wear related but some could apply to a PDI checklist.

[JRTJH]

Thorough PDI lasting two hours? If a buyer who is new to RVing (perhaps first or second purchase) goes through this process, is that person likely to spot all the issues if they don't know how things are supposed to be fitted or operate? Probably not; perhaps the newbie would be best encouraged to hire a mobile RV mechanic to accompany him through the walk through and explanation. Would it be a good idea for someone to develop a checklist of things to be checked during the PDI such as water heater bypass, manual slide-out operation, operation of the power converter, slide seal user maintenance... in other words, the things we often have new owners ask about on this forum. I have owned quite a few pull trailers and 5vers and find things on each I had no idea about. Since I buy older and used RVs, perhaps some of the things I find are age/wear related but some could apply to a PDI checklist.

wiredgeorge,
If you develop that checklist and want to share it, we'll find a place to post it on the forum.

[Ken / Claudia]

The dealer we bought from Curtis, in PDX. Said they set up PDIs 1 morning and 1 afternoon, allowing 4 hours for each unit. My 8th? RV, I still listened and watched everything and asked questions, pointed out items to fix and salesman made a list of that stuff. That list was written up and signed. I really did not learn anything on the PDI except that the stuff worked as they showed me. It may have taken 1.5 hours. Just like the TV, don't get blinded by the colors, check out the whole darn thing. Go home and read the manuals, ask questions to the service dept. if you did not understand something. If that was done no one would post How do I to turn on water heater etc.

[foldbak]

The dealerships hands are tied by the manufacturer. The manufacture mass produces a product engineered to deliver the most profit using the least amount of materials. They outsource every component and squeeze every penny with little to no quality control.



I've had my trailer for less then a year and every time I take it out it ends up back at the dealership for warranty. Hell they know me by name..... Most of the problems I've had were caused by poor workmanship. I live in Sacramento so it's HOT. My wife and I go to the coast 6 times a year to escape the heat. We went last weekend. I opened the trailer to load up and it was an oven of course. I had all of the shades closed and a cover on it. I tried to open the shades and the pleats wouldn't fold. It took me an hour just to get the shades up. I had to adjust the 3 large shades because they wouldn't stay up. Then I noticed all the wallpaper corners, trims and seams peeling. OK add to the list. Both LP tanks were empty. I filled them and connected only to find that BOTH LP hoses were leaking at the crimp. I can understand cheeping out on aesthetic items but I have a real problem cutting corners on safety items. I talked to the service manager and she told me that "yes" they are seeing a lot of quality issues. We even talked about California lemon law. Hell what else is wrong with the trailer that I cant see? 9 leaking windows replaced, leveling system sensor just hanging in the belly. The awning arms are mounted crocked. The bottoms collapsed on 2 drawers. The list goes on and on. At least the dealership is working with me.

[Local150]

I have had the same problems,, I have found out your warranty, no matter what brand is only as good as your dealer, the dealer I have I am pretty sure he has ate some of the fixes,, ,,, just like insurance ,,,, only as good as your agent

[JimMach1]

I just got off the phone with a very pleasant lady in Norcold Cust Service. She took my model and serial number, looked it up and said Camping World of Lowell, Arkansas had NEVER contacted them about this unit. It wasn't even registered in their system. She registered it, took notes and gave me a list of three other service centers in the area to contact.
So essentially my problem was never fixed at all! even lied to me saying that my refrigerator had a recall which it does not... I now have service scheduled at a different dealer....

We bought ours and dealer handed us the warranty papers to fill out and register ac and appliances. Then you know it’s done.

[JimMach1]

Aren’t your frustrations more dealer related? I mean you don’t ever work directly with Keystone.

Would be my opinion too but you can’t be mad at dealer for warranty taking so long or repair times they are human too screaming and yelling gets you nowhere. Just saying I had my camper at the dealer for 6 months for piddling little things they called and said campers done I refused to pick it up in the rain but did anyway didn’t walk around it when I got it home I found it had been hit 2 times and they patched a hole in the back repainted it not a good job either when confronted wouldn’t do anything for us. So I traded it off. Not there though 3 hours away. It was hit hard enough one of the slides leaked when I got it back. Replaced rear bumper rear luggage rack and slid decal down trying to hide it.

[GBR]

Well, I found the general comments quite interesting with respect to getting warranty approvals from the manufacturer. Blaming the documentation or lack thereof or the quality supporting the claim is a reasonable assumtion but not necessarily the case. I have a 2017 Alpine 3011re that was only used this past winter for 90 day’s in Florida. While there, the kitchen grey tank overflowed into the belly of trailer and impossible to get fixed without great deal of hassel. Had it on film so great documentation and got approved repair from Keystone on May 5th,2018. Complained about the slides stopping multiple times before full extension. Dealer went to Keystone for approval to repair a bent bar the runs a lenght of the front of the slide. Repair refused. Dealer appealed as the could not understand why and still refused. I called Keystone and the lady said i did something to cause the damage and was classified as “incidental”. She also said the the engineers indicated that the mechanism was perfect when it left the factory. No way would they approve the repair. I said the kitchen grey tank was perfect when it left the factory but I did not screw it up. No reply, just dead air. I then authorized the repair at my cost at dealer. Subsequently I received a call from dealer that the repair was approved. They said that as they extended the slide they noted the Keystone over torqued the bolts to the slide and bent the bar and resulted in the damage to the slide and blew a hole in the j-mold and broke the right side trim piece. Fortunately I do have a good dealer. One last point, delivered for service May 5th,2018 and got back August 13th as getting replacement parts take weeks and months and I still have no repair to kitchen grey tank and J-mold that was ordered twice arrived but wrong texture. Maybe I can get to use it next summer. Got to have patience of Jobe owing an RV.

[Susanna]

Has anyone used a lawyer to get Keystone to fix major problems?? (Fiberglass pops off in different areas) Their first question to us was...."do you have a lawyer?" That didn't give us much hope for a friendly resolution to the problem.

[travelin texans]

Tell them "yes, name J. Noble Daggett!".
Sorry, couldn't resist the True Grit reference.

[JimMach1]

Has anyone used a lawyer to get Keystone to fix major problems?? (Fiberglass pops off in different areas) Their first question to us was...."do you have a lawyer?" That didn't give us much hope for a friendly resolution to the problem.

We had a dealer damage our Rv I talked to an attorney and they wanted to sue the dealer I backed off dealers have more cash than I do so I dropped it and traded it for the one we own now. They can be your friend too so lawyering up will probably not get your Rv fixed in my opinion. So you sue them and win let’s say do you really want to take it back there and expect to get any kind of quality repair.?

[John&Genny]

We have a grand design Soletude 5th wheel. Shortly after we had a leak under the bathroom FL when flushing black tank. Contacted GD. and they didn't hesitate to fix the problem we actually called a Mobile rv and they came to our site and took care of the issue. In the summer another issue came up and once again they didn't hesitate and problem resolved. Great customer service in my opinion.

The DW and I were very close to buying a GD Reflection 5th wheel because of all the reports we read praising their customer service. The only reason we didn’t is because they didn’t have the floor plan we wanted, and at that time Winnebago had just purchased Grand Design so were a bit leary about that. Unfortunately, their CS seems to be the rare exception rather than the rule in the RV industry.

[TonyOIB]

Just because your buying NEW does not mean you do not need to GET DOWN AND DIRTY! I wish I had known this when I took home my BRAND NEW 2018 Minnie Winnie (yes, wrong forum, but this is important to all!) 4 months ago. When I say this I mean be sure to GET DOWN AND CRAWL UNDER THE RIG and look for rust and corrosion. Check out my pics and you will see partially of what I found after I took home this brand new motorhome that Winnebago says is NOT a "warrantable item" and now neither they nor CW will do anything about it. Winnebago blames CW for NOT washing the underneath when they received the unit, and CW just doesn't care.... And now I'm learning I can't even go to small claims court since neither of their corporations are registered in my state? and I will need to go the expensive attorney route. I'm on this forum looking for suggestions on not only the best way to fix this problem, but also ideas on how to get either CW or Winnebago to fess up that this is NOT just surface rust but something THEY need to address since this rust is now deteriorating the metal panels they have added to the framing. I too, will never buy new again and certainly not from Winnebago or Camping World.19718

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[German Shepherd Guy]

It is hard to see from the pictures just how bad the rust is. :eek: Probably would be the cheapest fix to go to a private shop have it sand blasted and then re-painted or powder coated. Either way looks way beyond a "small claims." YOU can do a civil court litigation without a lawyer if you are reasonably willing and have tons of time on your hands. A civil litigation is done in the county where the contract is signed. ( I would guess wherever C.W. is located where you bought it. Should be where they are doing business not where they are incorporated)) BUT it calls for TONS of time and a degree of ability at researching the laws of your state. So you just have to have a mad on that will not quit.:banghead:


Thanks for sharing your experience, jives with things I have heard about C.W. when deciding where to buy an RV.


I wish you well but seriously think the best thing to do while preserving your equilibrium and perhaps your domestic tranquility as well is to just fix it yourself at a good shop that would then put on an undercoat protector.
Truly wish you good luck.

[ctbruce]

The advice about involving lawyers on this forum, is to do it as a last resort. Once they are involved, the process drags on for a long time with nothing happening while they stall.

Why not write into the motor home equivalent of Trailer Life magazine and ask them to help out? Nothing beats exposure.

[sourdough]

Just because your buying NEW does not mean you do not need to GET DOWN AND DIRTY! I wish I had known this when I took home my BRAND NEW 2018 Minnie Winnie (yes, wrong forum, but this is important to all!) 4 months ago. When I say this I mean be sure to GET DOWN AND CRAWL UNDER THE RIG and look for rust and corrosion. Check out my pics and you will see partially of what I found after I took home this brand new motorhome that Winnebago says is NOT a "warrantable item" and now neither they nor CW will do anything about it. Winnebago blames CW for NOT washing the underneath when they received the unit, and CW just doesn't care.... And now I'm learning I can't even go to small claims court since neither of their corporations are registered in my state? and I will need to go the expensive attorney route. I'm on this forum looking for suggestions on not only the best way to fix this problem, but also ideas on how to get either CW or Winnebago to fess up that this is NOT just surface rust but something THEY need to address since this rust is now deteriorating the metal panels they have added to the framing. I too, will never buy new again and certainly not from Winnebago or Camping World.19718

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Some things come to mind looking at this:

You say it is a new 2018. It is still 2018; that kind of rust deterioration didn't happen in the short time it sat on CWs lot in my experience.

I don't live in an area with lots of salt but I find it hard to believe that the first protocol of a dealer acquiring an RV from a manufacturer is to go under it and wash the underbelly. I could be wrong but it doesn't happen anywhere I've been.

As you mentioned, we all have a responsibility to "trust but verify" the integrity of a unit before we take possession. That apparently didn't happen so it's hard to lay ALL the blame on CW and Winnebago.

As advanced as that rust is (as it looks in the pics) I almost think the unit/frame was just left sitting in the elements for an extended period during manufacture or ???

Bottom line, I think your beef is with Winnebago and I'd definitely be pulling their strings. For them to say all that would have been prevented had CW washed the underbelly is ludicrous.

On the other hand, if hat fight is going to get crappy there are several products on the market that will eliminate the rust and let you start with a fresh coating (hopefully). Unfortunately it falls on you to do the work and invest the time, but, like so many have found, that is what often times happens when we buy a new RV. Good luck on getting a resolution.

https://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Remover-Comparison-Chart-W22.aspx

[JRTJH]

Additionally, I'd suggest doing some "research" (snooping) as to where this motorhome was during the flooding in Texas/Florida/North and South Carolina.... I wouldn't accuse CW of being underhanded, but some automobiles that were "in the flood waters" have been turning up at dealerships outside the impacted areas. There's nothing addressed about motorhomes and travel trailers that's surfaced, but there's also nothing (yet) that it hasn't happened.

[capnkirk4]

I found Keystone easier to work with than CW. I would NEVER use CW in Hendersonville, NC again. Their service dept. was sloppy, and they didn't really seem to care. The CW in Johnson City, TN has readily fixed all NC's mishaps.

[travelin texans]

The motorhome may be registered as a 2018, but what year is the chassis?
We were in Indiana in August 2013 for a rally & driving by the factories that assembly class Cs had at least 200-300 cab & chassis sitting in a field next to the plant with weeds as tall as the cabs. It was already August so the newer model cab & chassis were just coming off line at Ford so those in the field were already 1 year model old still sitting in the weeds & the 2014 model rvs were already on the lots, so by the time some of those in the weeds got built the chassis could already be 2 years old. On other forums folks have had issues with a "new" rv with a 1 or 2 year old chassis.

[wiredgeorge]

I am sure that in a perfect world, the CW store or manufacturer should make this rust issue right but if it were mine, rather than fuss about lawyers and law suits, I would get a gallon of phosphoric acid and mix it into a solution. Then I would take a wire brush and hit the flaking rust and then soak the areas that are rusted with a sponge in the phosphoric acid solution. Alternatively rust binding commercial products but phosphoric acid solution works better. Of course, you should use eye cover and keep the stuff off you as you work but it isn't as nasty as many acids. This solution will turn the rust to paintable ferric phosphate. It works great in motorcycle gas tanks where the metal is plain steel and tends to rust over time.



If you use a commercial product, most are phosphoric acid based. Here is a good article detailing the differences between many of these products. You will want to paint the treated areas after they become cured and inert. I would recommend Krylon commercial grade spray paint (aerosol cans) but you can shoot the paint with a gun if that is more your bent.

[Ken / Claudia]

The people who bring up " I am getting a lawyer involved" always sounds like their really upset. I bet NONE will do it or have done it. Not over anything that is not a realistic pay out into a big number of thousands. And of course the lawyer getting up to 50%. Rust on a underside of a vehicle might cost a grand to have someone to remove rust, prep and spray undercoating to fix it.
If you really want a lawyer involved get an hour of advice 1st. Listen to them when they tell you it may take years. If they are real good they want a detainer up front, you got 10,000 bucks for that. Once you have a lawyer involved no dealer or factory of any product can or will talk to you, they cannot. You paid a lawyer to do all the talking from that point onward. You pay your lawyer 200 bucks an hour to talk to their lawyer. The American way, lawyers need to make money too.

[JRTJH]

Just a "stuck in my craw" event that happened to me years ago. I bought a clinic in a small rural town in Mississippi. I hired one of my patients (a lawyer) to close on a real estate purchase so I could build a house. He came to the office for his checkup, mentioned that things were going well with the real estate purchase. When I got the bill for his "services" there was a $350 charge dated the day of his appointment. When I asked him about it, he simply said that he spent 90 minutes waiting to tell me things were going well.

It all boiled down to the facts that I charged him $55 for a medical exam and he charged me $350 for a legal update..... Since then, I've been very reluctant to take any lawyer's advice "at face value"....

The above comments about hiring a lawyer to get resolution on a $1000 loss will probably cost you $15000 in legal updates so you can "save the $1000.....

Lawyers..... Where would we be without them ???? :whistling:

[wiredgeorge]

Nonsense! The right lawyer can probably get you a zillion dollar judgement... I would call my buddy Jim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q67cD8pDgqk

[chuckster57]

Danny: all units delivered to our lot get washed the same day so they can get a proper exterior inspection. Unfortunately the underbelly, frame and such are often overlooked by the kids hired to detail units. Paid minimum wage so the quality of work reflects that.

[sourdough]

Danny: all units delivered to our lot get washed the same day so they can get a proper exterior inspection. Unfortunately the underbelly, frame and such are often overlooked by the kids hired to detail units. Paid minimum wage so the quality of work reflects that.


Thanks Chuck. It makes sense to me in lots of places. Where we live I suspect that they don't even think about it. I've spent a lot of time at our dealerships and watched them prep quite a few RVs cleaning the exterior, working up the interior, putting them in the "fix it" que..but never saw anyone clean under an rv. I doubt they ever think about where they came from to get there.

[Jeremy888]

.I think Chuckster57 and traveling texans are right. Keystone is not the only one. My son bought a brand new Airstream from a San Diego dealer . They bent over backwards to take care of some minor items that needed attention . But once they signed the papers , and after they took delivery, a camping trip revealed more problems. They barely gave them the time of day and told them the waiting list was more thsn 90 days to bring it in. Total shock. I have had 8 RVs and all have been used. Our current one a 2017 Montana 3950BR is the newest and most luxurious one we have ever had. The previous owner was a rich guy who had a super extended warranty which he paid 100$ every time something went wrong and ths repairman came to him.He tried to transfer it to us but could not. I was pissed when things started going wrong right away. No way I can afford the dealer so I decided to continue fixing stuff myself. which I have always tried to do. This forum has helped me immensely. There are many savvy experts here who take the time to explain things to knuckleheads like me. I have made over a dozen repairs to this RV and have gotten much help from these guys . Like you I was angry at Keystone ,mainly hecause they told me that there was no wiring diagram for this trailer ..total BS. So now I realize l can get the help I need here , so I keep my blood pressure low by just forgoving them. I still gripe about the useless owners manual , but I have met many Keystone employees on line who have tried very hard to help. Sometimes they have . Good luck ...

[Local150]

I think I'm wondering why you're so upset.

You found a defect on day 14 (that should have been found on walk thru), on day 16 the tech looked at it and submitted information for warranty approval that would be in 48 hours?? What is wrong with that?

And, you are absolutely correct; if you don't find the defect before you take it off the lot you are going to have to provide a lot more info than if you didn't take it. Why? Well, after spending many hundreds of nights in hotels, condos etc. etc. I understand it. Many years ago I would never have said it, but these days, I can't believe the craziness that people do "just because". Defacing, breaking things for no reason. Couple that with the dealers that "fudge" as mentioned above and Keystone HAS to make sure what they are paying for is actually something they should pay for.

I'm not implying that you are the kind of person that would do anything like I mentioned, or that your current problem is any of your doing. I'm simply trying to point out the way Keystone looks at it (as would I). Hopefully you get it repaired and you're on the road in short order.
The salesman ,,, tech ,,, or whatever he is called should be the one to go over it with a fine tooth comb,,, not the buyer,, if you're a 1st time or even 2nd time rv owner you might not have a clue what you're looking at.,, but he should,,, jmho